Wreckers

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Wreckers Anonymous 2021-08-03 (Tue) 23:28:10 No.421514

How do you spot wreckers? And when you spot them, how do you stop them from destroying your org?

Anonymous 2021-08-03 (Tue) 23:36:13 No.421530

>>421514
they wreck things

Anonymous 2021-08-03 (Tue) 23:41:39 No.421536

>>421514
It's difficult because they will obviously do everything they can to conceal themselves, and attacking them without proof will likely do their job for them. Fighting wreckers before they wreck you is like trying to remove a tumor from your own body when you don't know where it is or what it looks like.
I don't think anybody has ever created a good way of detecting them without outside help. Even Lenin fell victim to this, and infamously supported a Tsarist agent within the Bolsheviks despite allegations of treason.

The only way to really overcome them is to just be so competent that their operations don't kill you, and thus you stay alive until you can start constructing your own intelligence service to counter them.

Anonymous 2021-08-03 (Tue) 23:42:11 No.421537

When motherfuckers:
Fail to do proper criticism of other comrades or themselves.
Clog up discussions with pointless shit or derail meetings.
Push adventureist positions.
Provoke authorities ir reactionaries needlessly.
Do not adhere to democratic centralism.

It can be confirmed when they're called out on any of this and fail to rectify.

Anonymous 2021-08-03 (Tue) 23:44:30 No.421541

>>421537
>Do not adhere to democratic centralism.
And if your org doesn't practice that shit?

Anonymous 2021-08-03 (Tue) 23:46:36 No.421543

File: 1628034396722.jpg (118.96 KB, 1024x682, 1595437118540.jpg)

When they focus on IDpol over economics.
supporting social democracy or rad libs like Bernie and AOC

Anonymous 2021-08-03 (Tue) 23:51:17 No.421551

Marxist: organize the working class, work towards a revolution.
Wreckers: yeah, but whattabout sex "workers," lumpens, PoC, LatinX, and LGBTQPLRM?

Anonymous 2021-08-03 (Tue) 23:54:05 No.421557

>>421543
Define idpol. What separates a black panther party from a new black panther party or nation of islam?

Anonymous 2021-08-03 (Tue) 23:54:15 No.421558

Maybe things are a little different in Europe, but it's a huge red flag to me when you're trying to organize something productive and suddenly people feel a desperate need to form an anti-fascist group.

Anonymous 2021-08-03 (Tue) 23:56:03 No.421562

>>421557
Class consciousness?

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 00:02:04 No.421571

>>421557
their goals?
one clearly was working to build socialism the other just want more welfare

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 00:02:06 No.421572

>>421558
"anti-fascism" is a huge red flag for not understanding class politics as such. Let's say you live in a country where a significant chunk of the working class is infested with fascist thought.

The anti-fa type would say: crush their skulls, beat them up, no platform, and all that shit. A marxist would say: convince and sway them, because their objective CLASS INTERESTS put them on your side without them YET understanding this fact.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 00:18:08 No.421589

>>421572
>convince and sway them, because their objective CLASS INTERESTS put them on your side without them YET understanding this fact.
It depends what you mean by this, because if you're talking about opportunistic tailism which has you perverting your own principles in an attempt to impotently flatter the working class to work with you, then absolutely no Marxist should ever be for this. That's not a way towards a future of communism, that's a future of running a race to the bottom and throwing every conviction out the window because of what is inherently a view that sees the working class as pathetic pitiable subhumans incapable of doing better, and which only ends with one losing to those that can out pander and "opportunism" them.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 00:19:43 No.421594

>>421572
>Not sure if opportunist, falseflagger or federal agent.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 00:20:09 No.421596

>>421572
The cure to fascism is to actually articulate a coherent alternative for people, not "opposing" fascism for its own sake (which just makes you look like status quo shills).

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 00:21:56 No.421597

>>421541
It's glowie op then

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 00:24:10 No.421603

Watch

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 00:24:51 No.421606

>>421589
I have no fucking idea what you are talking about, comrade. You literally can't convince a regressive group, such as fascist proles, by tailing them. You can absolutely convert them by posing by more revolutionary as their fash parties and by pointing out their objective class interests. Are you trying to gotcha/troll me? Cuz it's not gonna work, since I have actual praxis behind my back.

>>421594
>not sure if american, low on reading comprehension

>>421596
Basically.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 00:33:58 No.421622

>>421606
>I have no fucking idea what you are talking about, comrade. You literally can't convince a regressive group, such as fascist proles, by tailing them. You can absolutely convert them by posing by more revolutionary as their fash parties and by pointing out their objective class interests. Are you trying to gotcha/troll me? Cuz it's not gonna work, since I have actual praxis behind my back.
And I'm coming at you as someone who was actually on the far-right, here to tell you you're an idiot if you think you're going to convince anyone in any fascist space by projection yourself as more revolutionary to them and trying to merely appeal to their "class interest", becasue it completely misunderstands what they themselves see as their class interest, which has nothing to do with the proles as a whole and everything to do with seeing themselves as petit-bourgeoisie in the making. Holy shit, it astounds me how naive and lenient so many leftists can be to their opposition, so many of you fags are really too "good" for your own good. I state this as bluntly as I can make it: If you said this to me when I was on the far-right, I would absolutely milk the shit out of you by playing to your good nature before then sliding in my own platform whenever I could.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 00:34:30 No.421624

>>421622
*by projecting

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 00:41:02 No.421646

Am I the only one who wants to rip out those ear expanders when I see them on someone? Just yank it in one pull an then run.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 00:45:37 No.421655

>>421622
This post should be read this way:
<as an ex-fascist I think your attempts of convincing us remaining fascists by appealing to their objective class interests is threatening to my fascist side haram
Keep being buttblasted, faggot. Workers of the world will unite.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 00:49:34 No.421662

>>421622
>I'm pol
>plz leave us be

WEAK

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 01:10:31 No.421704

>>421655
>as an ex-fascist I think your attempts of convincing us remaining fascists by appealing to their objective class interests is threatening to my fascist side haram
No, I'm not a fascist, I am a committed Marxist through and through. What I am telling you is that no fascist was ever converted over because some communist went up to them and regaled them with rhetoric of how they were the more revolutionary of the two, or how said fascist should become a communist because of their class interest. I only got pushed towards Marxism because of life circumstances that shattered and shifted my view on things, and because 8chan /leftypol/ was unabashed in telling me I was a fucking retarded idiot, and that I should actually read before I speak on something. That's it. Any fascist you try your little naive proposal on will either just use you while thinking you to be some kind of deluded idiot, or tell you to kill yourself in the most obscene fashion. These people are not fascists for the reason you probably think they are.
>>421662
>I'm pol
>plz leave us be
Never said this. Go on the offensive, be adament in your opposition to /pol/yps. Just don't try this childish game where you try and play to what you see as their "rational" selves under all of the garbage, because 90%, there will be none. Make literally no mistake, these people think of you as either mistaken fools who got caught on something they no nothing of and will unfortunately die as a consequence, or the absolutely aware garbage of society who they will cheer the death of once you get what's "coming for you". Grow the fuck up, the vast, vast majority of these people are not your future friends.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 03:19:24 No.421912

>>421537
>Clog up discussions with pointless shit or derail meetings.
Seems like the biggest sign to me

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 03:27:41 No.421923

Wreckers here:
>peddles /pol/ talking points
>acts like a far right
>spam
>vomits pro-burger sentiments
>derail threads
>have a mental age of 9-14
>haven't read that much Marxism

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 03:50:11 No.421956

>>421514
Look at them physically and you'll know

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 03:57:04 No.421967

When they post like this >>421543

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 03:57:40 No.421969

>>421956
The chin shows

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 03:59:44 No.421971

>>421557
being communists focused on class warfare that constantly criticized idpol

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 04:01:18 No.421974

>>421967

why are you trying to say a critique of neo liberalism is a werker?

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 10:14:35 No.422560

>>421514
Keep a tally on everyone who is being disruptive, even good friends. Don't expect wreckers to go
>Hey guyz did you know Nazi stands for national SOCIALIST WORKER PARTY 0_0; ???
Nobody irl or even in a private online group is going to do comical shit like that. Look out for stuff like
>dragging conversations into pointless directions
Don't expect wreckers to go "HUUUURRR LETS TALK ABOUT IDPOL LOLOL!!!!", it's not (always) gonna be blatant like that. There is a huge difference between planning to help local unionizing efforts and talking about how bad corporations are for union busting. The later might be more fun but it also gets nothing done.
>relationship-drama, (cry)bullying, pointless personal fights
Always try to keep a close eye on the social dynamics of your org. If a member is constantly involved in drama or being the focal point of conflict between members then there is a good chance that it's not a coincidence. Seriously don't underestimate this shit, it can destroy any group.
>clique formation
While this happens naturally in every larger group, be aware of cliques that are formed to specifically undermine your org. For example, lets say you have a rule that says "We are not going to talk about class reductionalism in group meetings", so a bunch of members gets together to talk about class reductionism outside of group meetings and invite other members to join. Shit like that is going to lead to huge problems down the road so it should be shut down as early as possible.
>pointless calls to (illegal) action
This should be self-explanatory but be very aware of people who constantly speak of breaking stuff or attacking people, especially when they leave a paper trail by posting that shit in group chats.

If you keep the tally long enough you'll eventually be able to spot highly disruptive members. And even if there is no wrecker who is intentionally trying to ruin stuff, by looking out for this kinda shit you can spot retards and shitheads who cause more trouble than they are worth.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 10:44:47 No.422605

>>422560
>While this happens naturally in every larger group, be aware of cliques that are formed to specifically undermine your org. For example, lets say you have a rule that says "We are not going to talk about class reductionalism in group meetings", so a bunch of members gets together to talk about class reductionism outside of group meetings and invite other members to join. Shit like that is going to lead to huge problems down the road so it should be shut down as early as possible.
what does this mean ?

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 11:13:11 No.422629

File: 1628075591531.jpg (111.55 KB, 800x1135, IMG_20210320_184807 (1).jpg)

>>421514
If they ignore objective reality and refuse to study the material conditions and unique class relations in the United States, that is, they apply a European Marxist class analysis dogmatically to the USA, while the US is a settler colony, build on domestic slavery and founded by white supremacist ideology.

Their refusal to understand and incorporate this reality in their class analysis is the reason why almost every majority white communist and union movement in the US ended up collaborating with the capitalist class, against african organized labour and neglecting the national liberation movement of native americans.
The best example is during FDR, when white and African workers were incredibly organized and almost threatened to overthrow the US. Then FDR gave social democracy, only for white workers. For black workers barely anything changed, they were exploited and lynched even harder to pay for the white social democratic policies. The lack of solidarity and understanding of ties between the black liberation and class struggle made white workers complacent. But this wasn't a focus of white union workers, they pushed for segregated unions and dropped the black workers and their revolutionary white allies, because they only slowed down the movement and were "not focused on class struggle". A united front would've exposed this white chauvinism, class collaboration and the limits of capitalism and pushed further for revolution.

And the same white chauvinism is still dominant in the left, whenever someone just says the word "black" it is neglected as """DUURRR MUUH IDPOL""

All the while it is exactly Africans who had the most revolutionary communist potential in the United States

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 11:55:47 No.422688

>>422629
Socialist movements needs to focus on solidarity between the workers not racialism. You are reaping the same mistake you are claiming to oppose. Class struggle is universal it doesn't have an ethnic essence. Read Fred Hampton.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 12:09:21 No.422704

>>422690
>false dichotomy
uphold
Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Xi -thought

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 12:10:55 No.422706

>>422690
Literally who have you seen that likes Xi but not Marx, Lenin, Engels, Stalin and Mao? I doubt the person youre describing exists

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 12:21:10 No.422714

>>422710
low energy

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 12:25:34 No.422720

>>421967
t. idpozzed radlib

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 12:37:36 No.422731

File: 1628080655992.png (71.95 KB, 333x488, uno.PNG)

>>422726
no u

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 12:58:39 No.422746

>>422744
no energy

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 13:18:10 No.422759

>>422751
<(me)
<sexy, handsome, good communist
>(you)
>sexless, less-than-handsome, bad communist

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 13:19:59 No.422760

>>422751
underdeveloped productive forces detected

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 14:33:29 No.422829

Have a specific, clear, set, achievable goal to your organization. Do not tolerate any attempts to derail from that specific goal. Anyone who tries to change the subject is a wrecker.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 15:11:57 No.422866

>>422732
>crimethinc
Now there is a wrecker red flag.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 15:14:28 No.422875

>>422629
Spotted a wrecker.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 16:21:34 No.422950

>>421514
They reeee at every ideology that isn't their special snowflake version of communism.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 16:29:43 No.422958

>>422629
Pls tell me that that ad is a shoop, fuck I'm legit mad if that's not the case.

Anonymous 2021-08-04 (Wed) 16:30:33 No.422961

they are furries

Anonymous 2021-08-05 (Thu) 04:27:16 No.424025

>>421974
No the criticism almost doesn’t matter, in fact I fully expect wreckers to speak in half truths and mildly correct takes for maximum efficiency.

Wreckers destroys nuances to instill a very intense moralistic manichaen worldview so that they can “wokescold” others like >>422720. They don’t fixated on praxis or actions, but on positions and mindsets. Look at how the wrecker insist that everyone thinks in a specific (often very obscure) way while moralizing dissidents.

Wrecking isn’t an ideology, but the hipster wielding said ideology.

Anonymous 2021-08-05 (Thu) 04:39:03 No.424046

Reminder that anything that wastes time is a type of wrecking

Anonymous 2021-08-05 (Thu) 18:51:45 No.425094

>>422732
>something feels off
<tfw socially awkward
Well I'm boned at literally any meetup.

Anonymous 2021-08-05 (Thu) 19:13:15 No.425110

>>425106
Regarding calming people down, I think that’s more relevant if they’re in the minority. People who wanna start shit when no one rlse isn’t feeling it can equally be toxic for an org.

Anonymous 2021-08-05 (Thu) 19:13:50 No.425111

>>422958
It’s real

Anonymous 2021-08-05 (Thu) 19:19:43 No.425118

>>422629
> And the same white chauvinism is still dominant in the left, whenever someone just says the word "black" it is neglected as """DUURRR MUUH IDPOL""
No, it’s not.
There are retards who ape anti-idpol to push their own by reifying the construct idpol is supposedly fighting.
No one who actually matters cares if you talk about race but base your arguments in class-based analysis.

junko!!9cfznBf./Q 2021-08-06 (Fri) 02:34:37 No.425835

>>421543
Add the mypillow guy on the right side

junko!!9cfznBf./Q 2021-08-06 (Fri) 02:48:46 No.425875

File: 1628218126046-0.png (516.98 KB, 2592x1540, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1628218126046-1.png (1.41 MB, 4193x2841, Czolgosz's Cunning.png)

>>425094
I made this 4 years ago about Leon Czolgosz. When he tried to associate with anarchists they suspected he was a spy due to autism and trying to talk about shooting the President. Which he later did, I think he was pissed because he couldn't find a job if I remember right, or something about wages. Name of the second picture was Czolgosz's Cunning, which was also the name of his gun he hid in a handkerchief.

Anonymous 2021-08-06 (Fri) 03:07:03 No.425930

>>421543

Antifa isn't synonymous with radlibs. You fell for the right wing meme that antifa are all just AOC/Biden supporters.

Anonymous 2021-08-06 (Fri) 03:58:42 No.426038

>>425112
Defending yourself against a wrecker is futile because wreckers don’t want to have a discussion but just shame others into submission.

Anonymous 2021-08-06 (Fri) 06:47:16 No.426240

>>421572
What if they’re not convinced? What are you going to do when they respond with violence?

Anonymous 2021-08-21 (Sat) 02:35:34 No.448789

>>425930
Wrong, ALL antifa are radlibs and if you disagree you should be shot

Anonymous 2021-08-21 (Sat) 02:46:31 No.448792

>>448789
Okay, ultra

Anonymous 2021-08-21 (Sat) 04:14:50 No.448805

File: 1629519290106.jpg (10.55 KB, 350x200, Lenin and Martov.jpg)

>>421541
Wrecker detected, IDpol detected.

>'Focus on IDpol over economics' = AOC and Sanders are bad mmkay
>Proceeds to focus on IDpol over economics.

<Except when I do it intensifies.

1. Describe the sealed train.
2. Describe the Kerensky Government's rise to power and fall.
3. How could Lenin side with Martov and the Mensheviks to overthrow the Tsar, that's so right wing of him.
4. In b4 he worked with the Jewish Bund, no he displaced the Jewish Bund. For 8 fricking pages.
5. How could Lenin work with the Arch Conservative Kaiser, he's just a reactionary plant. #notmycomrade #bluecheckUltraleftist

Read
"Left" Communism and Infantile Disorder
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/

or at least watch
Fall of Eagles
Sealed Train
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjt452YzkM

Don't >trust< the liberals, they will betray you
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkY88kvkdvU

Lenin on wreckers and pragmatism
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmCnW2IRQPE

Anonymous 2021-08-21 (Sat) 04:16:10 No.448806

>>448805
meant for
>>421543

Anonymous 2022-12-24 (Sat) 04:36:31 No.463219

bump

Anonymous 2022-12-24 (Sat) 06:03:04 No.463221

File: 1671861784090.jpg (12.27 KB, 161x161, sad kirby.jpg)

>>463219
But you didn't add anything to the discussion.

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