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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1628467559036.jpeg (7.02 KB, 194x259, download (2).jpeg)

 No.432144[Last 50 Posts]

>GET OFFLINE! Oh, not me. I got podcasting, twitch, and maybe a gaming channel
>JOIN A UNION! Oh, not me. I'm an "artisan".

There is no difference between the grifters of Matt and Vaush.
>>

 No.432312

So what have you done to advance leftist causes?
>>

 No.432319

File: 1628469121926.png (168.95 KB, 675x675, ClipboardImage.png)

>>432144
Log off, go for a walk outside, take some shrooms, think about the universe.
>>

 No.432351

>>432312
Expose grifters.
>>

 No.432426

>>432351
what a fuckin hero. you served your role as a malfunctioning neuron in the internet godhead just like the rest of us.
>>

 No.432469

File: 1628470746283.png (22.78 KB, 752x661, 1616423814944.png)

>Touch grass, leftoid :^)
>Oh me? I have allergies, bud.
>>

 No.432472

>what is the intelligentsia
>>

 No.432482

I'm actually rooting for him. His grillpill and "get offline" shticks are merely his own personal struggle to stop being a lazy bum and do something with his knowledge. But many of us can relate because we're also lazy, internet-addicted bums who aren't using our theory or knowledge to do anything either. Matt Christman's eventual triumph will be our triumph, too.
>>

 No.432981

>>432144
did his rant on stalin being a little bitch make you cry
>>

 No.433020

I love Matt but like lmao you're not wrong
this also belongs in the internet containment thread
>>

 No.433255

>>432312
I hand out food to poor people and I'm in a union. I also read theory. What do you do? Oh that's right, defend the honor of some gutless bavarian grifter on an albanian bunker building forum. That's nice.
>>

 No.433530

>>

 No.433597

>>433530
Starts off from 45:00
Also 9:50 to watch him own himself
>>

 No.433616

>>432312
I buy from China
>>

 No.433619

all e-celebs are useless and have nothing of value to say
>>

 No.433620

>>433597
thanks fam
>>

 No.433626

online general
>>

 No.433662

>>432144
>work 8 hours a day
>only a couple of hours at best to read theory
>listen to podcasts while at work to keep my self tapped in to leftist discussion
>fag posting on image board 'nooo why aren't you literally pouring over Capital every second'

let people enjoy things, unless you're a neet Matt and other left podcasts are the best we can get while at work
>>

 No.433667

What do you expect him to do, find a factory job so he can join a union to get socialism points? Unlike vaush matt is self aware of his class position and doesn't pretend to be a based workerino.
>>

 No.433674

>>433662
>the best we can get while at work
Dude you can listen to a girl with a cute voice reading marxist lit here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3ClSqbN5tlXOuFj3eqyAoA
and if you really must listen to podcasts The Antifada is often cringe but still ten times better than the Chapo retards:
https://podtail.com/en/podcast/the-antifada/
And there are much better radio shows/podcasts in spanish and french that I could rec if you can understand either of those languages
>>

 No.433687

>>433674
i do listen to some theory but I can't listen to large chunks because I won't actually be understanding it over time, so ill take my mid day shift for theory and then the last shift for theory. Cheers for the link tho, there not enough in audio form.
In terms of podcasts; rev left and red menace, matt, antifada, subliminal jihad, srsly wrong, true anon and sometimes chapo. The thing is is that it's stupid to expect your brain to be able to maintain 100% engagement so chapo is fine for light current affairs news, also because they can be funny, I do like theory deep dives but listening to people cracking jokes can be nice.

Also I'm thinking of learning Spanish but I haven't got the time between organising and working
>>

 No.433762

>>433597

This sounds right to me

Does anyone have any criticisms of his representation of the soviet union?
>>

 No.433766

File: 1628508008971.mp4 (13.27 MB, 426x240, parenti-liberals.mp4)

>>432144
Christman literally is the only person that broke down Marxism in a way I could easily understand, as well as explaining how Anarchists, despite having their hearts in the right place, come from liberal ideological roots and as such are ill equipped to adequately oppose capitalism. Most other popular leftists are still anarchists or sucdems or "anti-authoritarian" and still think Cuba is a dictatorship.
>>

 No.433776

I don't like chapo but Matt's cushlogs are pretty cool (except his "singing" but I guess he does it intentionally?)

Anyway I'm out of podcasts, anyone got interesting ones?

>>433674
I tried audio theory and it was pretty pointless.
Theory is better read by yourself, with full concentration at your own pace, being able to reread passages, pay attention to the graphs and formulas and look shit up. It's not something to listen to while fastening screws.
>>

 No.433793

tbh it normal for young people not to understand what he is talking about, i disagree with him on some tactical issues but overall he is as preety homest leftists .
>GET OFFLINE! Oh, not me. I got podcasting, twitch, and maybe a gaming channel
Matt never said completelyh stop using tecnology i dont get you, his main beef is social media politics(mainly twitter but chans are also similar)making videos and playing videogames doesnt lead to internet retardation.But ill will answer you in a more appropriate way .
>omg you are hating on rich people but you have money to buy a printing press for pamphlets reee.
>JOIN A UNION! Oh, not me. I'm an "artisan".
He has done political activism ,imo actually reaching people is far more important than joining unions
>>

 No.433795

>>433776
>Theory is better read by yourself, with full concentration at your own pace, being able to reread passages, pay attention to the graphs and formulas and look shit up.
Yeah I agree but I like to listen to Adrestia's Revolt as theory-reading gf ASMR before bedtime tbh. If I don't grasp some phrases but find the gist of the text interesting I read it over later.
>>

 No.433800

>>433766
Got a link to Matt discussing anarchism?
>>

 No.433803

>>433795
>theory-reading gf ASMR before bedtime tbh

>these are the type of people who reject the grill pill
>>

 No.433813

>>433803
>the grill pill
The wut? Is this summary accurate?
<It is the simple idea that, disappointed by the political failure of the Bernie Sanders campaign, leftists and others can still find solidarity, community, and fellowship sharing good food among friends — grilling steaks in the backyard like an oblivious Boomer.
If so prefer the beer & punk rock pill
>>

 No.433819

>>433813
Yeah kinda, it's not about the grilling as such but taking a step back from posting, being online, engaging in real life activities with other people. So punk rock, gardening, climbing, grilling, all very grill pilled. ASMR, twitter posting, probably image boards too, extremely ungrillpilled.
>>

 No.433826

File: 1628511763816.jpg (79.16 KB, 474x700, readabook.jpg)

>>433819
Y pq no los dos?
It's not actual ASMR btw I just like to pass out listening to a qt reading Bordiga
>>

 No.433827

>>433762
I'm the resident Cushist, and honestly his takes on USSR are probably the one place where I disagree the most with Matt. I agree with his analysis on USSR for the first half of 20th century - it was crippled from the start by the failure of the German revolution and had no good options to take. Also I agree that Stalin, and soviets in general, were too afraid of exporting the revolution abroad, though I'd say that Afghanistan is a good indicator that perhaps it wouldn't have been a good strategy. Also I firmly agree that "Cold War" wasn't a conflict between US and USSR, but rather a mad rush for global dominace between the US and literally everyone else.
However I disagree that Stalins onward pacifism was necesarilly doomed. Sure, if US was able to keep itself stable as it did during our Cold War indefinetly, it would have won, however that wouldn't happen - even by the 90s I'd argue it started to show early signs of rot, and then 2001 onwards was full downward spiral. So if USSR had survived until then, which I deffinetly think was possible - it literally happened for our timeline because of one of those historical flukes Matt loves to talk about when seemingly healthy hardliner premiers kicked the bucket and oppened the window for reformism. Andropov/Chernenko death in my mind is the same thing as Lincoln assasination is for Matt. So if USSR lives up to the point of US going into deaththrows, I do believe victory was possible.

>>433776
>except his "singing" but I guess he does it intentionally?
I'd say its hit and miss, though mostly miss since he sounds a bit too tired in most of them. I like it mainly because through him I found a ton of cool songs (Stagger Lee, Navigator, Leonard Cohen's Future)
>>

 No.434011

>>433827
It's always a miss since he doesn't actually sing but just mumble the words rhythmically, makes me think he does that to scare people he doesn't want to listen to his ramblings away.
>>

 No.434026

>>432144
If you have a secure source of income - literally talking into a webcam, then it's upon you to use that freedom to free others.

Call out into the crowd, promote safe houses where people will house cross state protestors, who are looking to start coops, who are running elections, or just promote resources to get started.

And thats it. You're done. You helped free 2 people who can then free 4 people, and so.
>>

 No.434125

>>433662
The word is poring not pouring you illiterate esl fucker. If you read more you might know this.
>>

 No.434218

>>

 No.434543

>>434218
Lmfao what a fucking loser. Imagine drinking yourself stupid over the goddamn midterm elections
>>

 No.434564

File: 1628535345584.png (174.24 KB, 811x1049, ClipboardImage.png)

>>434543
>Lmfao what a fucking loser. Imagine drinking yourself stupid over the goddamn midterm elections
>>

 No.434647

>>434564
I’m sorry I upset but why would you try to insult me by implying I look like your master Christmas?
>>

 No.436090

>>433776
>Anyway I'm out of podcasts, anyone got interesting ones?
Revolutions with Mike Duncan
>>

 No.436777

File: 1628605700205.jpg (104.35 KB, 1280x720, vaush.jpg)

>muh vaush
Why do incels hate him so much? Doesn't matter if it's here or on pol, it's always the same whiney shit. I can understand why the FAGGOTs on /pol/ are asshurt about him but why the fuck does this place hate him? The guy did more to advance left-wing politics than all of leftypol combined.

inb4
>NOOOOO ADVOCATING FOR MINORITY RIGHTS AND IMPROVING THE MATERIAL CONDITIONS OF THE WORKING CLASS INSIDE THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM ISN'T LEFTWING AT ALL!!!!!
>>

 No.436780

>>436777
If you're not memeing, you should really Marx and Lenin before posting again, then you'll understand.
>>

 No.436782

>>436777
>The guy did more to advance left-wing politics than all of leftypol combined.
He advanced tens of thousands of zoomers right back into the Democratic Party. No thanks and fuck off.
<>NOOOOO ADVOCATING FOR MINORITY RIGHTS AND IMPROVING THE MATERIAL CONDITIONS OF THE WORKING CLASS INSIDE THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM ISN'T LEFTWING AT ALL!!!!!
Vaush has done none of those things.
>>

 No.436804

>>436780
>>436782
He literally has thousands of hours of content on youtube in which he pushes against reactionary talking points. He unquestionably helped change the political discourse on of the most popular media platforms in the world. Do you really want to go back to a time where every politics video on youtube was some DUNK ON SJW!!!! or MUH CULTURAL MARXISM shit? Only because he doesn't make 8 hour long videos on our holy theory doesn't mean that he isn't leftwing.

>He advanced tens of thousands of zoomers right back into the Democratic Party. No thanks and fuck off.

oh no he prevented kids from going down the alt-right rabbit hole, what a monster.
Retard.
>>

 No.436805

>>436777
take it from somebody who's spoken to him before and been a fan, he's a huuuge fuckin tard and i think he's being controlled by CIA habdlers as well, look at his advocacy for imperialist positions always, as well as his unironic support for the FBI + his strawmanning of defund the police as the same thing as police abolition (he's against both apparently like a faget)
>>

 No.436814

>>436804
>oh no he prevented kids from going down the alt-right rabbit hole, what a monster.
As an Asian person, why do I care? Vaushites still want to imprison me for the crime of resembling a Han Chinese person which implies I am a redfash tankie.
>>

 No.436817

>>436805
if someone could post those clips of vaush talking about FBI & police defunding it is illustrative and im not at my pc
>>

 No.436830

>>436804
>Do you really want to go back to a time where every politics video on youtube was some DUNK ON SJW!!!! or MUH CULTURAL MARXISM shit?
you should think a few steps ahead - Vaush is financially and politically exploiting the reaction to that bullshit right-wing content, and doing it in a way damaging in the long run to the left wing
>>

 No.436836

>>436814
>As a non-white person, why do I care if there are fascists?
bruh
>>

 No.436877

>>436830
>humiliating rightwingers and providing talking points against them is in the long run damaging to the left
How?
>>

 No.436888

>>436877
he's not even doing that
>>

 No.436893

>Do you really want to go back to a time where every politics video on youtube was some DUNK ON SJW!!!! or MUH CULTURAL MARXISM shit?
I want to go to a time where youtube doesn't exist.
Vaush videos are functionally and intellectually no different from SJOOWS OWNED videos.

>prevented kids from going down the alt-right rabbit hole

There's only posting on the end of either "rabbit-hole", only the stupid shit they end up saying and believing is slightly different (not better)
>>

 No.436894

>>436777
Gruesomely unfunny. Every attempt to inject some light-hearted humor makes CBT seem enjoyable. He's a shameless redditor without a drop of insight on any issue, or an ounce of creativity that he could use to entertain someone.
>>

 No.436896

>>436877
The US specializes in creating fake political opposition.
>>

 No.436911

>>436877
>"Exposes" right wingers retardation, as if this is hard
>Use what I taught you to voooote for the Democratic Party, they will actually move left this time, I promise!
>Also by the way if you don't voote you are redfash tankie evilman.
>>

 No.436929

>>436877
>humiliating rightwingers and providing talking points against them is in the long run damaging to the left

Because it's not. It's controlled opposition spectacle. Vaush and whatever other glow/liberalfags slink in that orbit are not a starting point for left politics but a stopgap. They explicitly denounce anything not siding with their USA liberal takes as "tankie" or "red fascist".

Their version of left politics is the democratic party of the US and they put as much effort in propping themselves through spectacle as they do in galvanizing their audience against anything non-US propaganda approved.

>>436817
I think it may be something like this, either way put on your sunglasses

Clip is from our own Boss Ignostic's channel too!
>>

 No.436934

>>436929
YES i was looking for this link
>>

 No.436984

>>436782
He probably discredited the left far more by arguing against age of consent laws lol.
Vaush is only liked by pedos or by people that want everyone to assume that all leftists are pedos.
>>

 No.436996

>>436984
>He probably discredited the left far more by arguing against age of consent laws lol.
Vash has neither a positive or negative affect on the left. He is one more twitch nerd afraid of fresh air and confli… literally all forms of social interaction.
Meaningless. Sure he might have been seen by more leftist eyes now that people like Owen Jones and other leftists in the public sphere have spoken to him but most of these eyes will be seeing him for what he is, a grifting psued and a chauvinist.
>>

 No.437022

>>436996
I'd honestly wouldn't be surprised that he is a controlled psyop and feds have dirt on him.
>>

 No.437029

>>437022
I doubt it. the FEDs own politicians, media station controllers, heads of industry, there is not that much to gain from controllin a twitch kid.

I feel like when it comes to peple like vaush /leftypol/ likes to throw all reason out the window just so it can say he and people like him are 'actual glowies'.
>>

 No.437086

>>437029
You are a moron if you think the feds ignore social media including Twitch.
>>

 No.437190

>437086
>You are a moron if you think the feds ignore social media including Twitch.
That's not what i said though, retard.
FEDs own Bezos, Vaush and everyone elses literal boss.
Look, just admit to yourself your internet video game streamers are not that important, certainly not important enough to be fucking life long plants or bondaged to comprimat for decades or whatever the fuck.
>>

 No.437226

File: 1628614253887-0.mp4 (7.91 MB, 1152x720, stalins biggest crime.mp4)

File: 1628614253887-1.mp4 (7.88 MB, 1152x720, stalins biggest crime 2.mp4)

>>

 No.437246

>>436929
>he is against the unbearably cringe defund the police shit
wtf i love vaush now
>>

 No.437258

>>437226
I get what he's saying but that wasn't exactly Stalin's personal self-preservation, USSR was fucked up by the war and people wouldn't agree to keep fighting unless invaded. Most of the people that would happily volunteer to go fight porky for the world revolution were killed on the front lines in 1941

>>437236

He used to be lib but Bernie losing made him see clearly
>>

 No.437259

>>437246
cop detected
>>

 No.437268

File: 1628615046419.jpg (16.06 KB, 308x308, bait.jpg)

>>

 No.437269

File: 1628615061136.png (236.87 KB, 400x400, unknown-106.png)

>>437246
a whole summer of rampant and naked police corruption exposed, as well as cops unapologetically abusing citizens, to please their sadism, and then their corrupt unions back them up
now the glow of your post does not escape me, to have witnessed such a chain of events and then not be the least sympathetic to abolishing these corrupt nests of vipers proposing that they ""protect and serve"", much less a separate proposal to simply reduce their bloated budgets for social programs
that is at least liberal if not outright reactionary
>>

 No.437271

File: 1628615151841.mp4 (7.78 MB, 1152x720, dehumanize the ruling clas….mp4)

>>

 No.437281

File: 1628615301931.mp4 (6.88 MB, 854x480, Vaush Glows.mp4)

>thread derailed again
he cant keep getting away with it
>>

 No.437294

>>437259
>>437269
Thanks to the BASED defunding thousands of people died, predominantly in working-poor neighborhoods. There is a reason why people like you will get the wall once the revolution happens.
>>

 No.437298

>>437294
>Thanks to the BASED defunding thousands of people died,
didn't happen, in fact reported crime went down when the NYPD striked
>>

 No.437303

>>437298
Yeah cause the dead can't call the cops
>>

 No.437306

>>437294
<NOOO IM GOING TO SHOOT YOU FOR NOT SUPPORTING THE LOCAL REACTIONARY CLUB IN YOUR TOWN OR CITY
the absolute state of american """leftism"""
>>

 No.437320

>>437303
>cop union strikes
>people suddenly die too fast to dial 911
>>

 No.437326

>>437306
>NOOOO I WANT TO LIVE IN A LAWLESS SHITHOLE!!!! PROTECTING SCHOOL KIDS FROM GETTING EXECUTED ON THEIR WAY HOME IS REACTIONARY AS FUCK
Guess how I know that you live in some white-as-fuck middle class neighborhood.

>>437320
You can throw as many red herring at me as you want, it doesn't change that by all metrics violent crime and murders massively increased following the defund the police shit.
>>

 No.437332

>>437029
I think it was an attempt to create a counter to some organically popular right-wing streamer, so they shuffled through the list of people that they own, found a streamer Vaush that got caught with CP at some point, and just used him.
>>

 No.437354

>>437326
bitch please i bet you don't even have Citizen(tm) installed on your phone to make sure your neighborhood isn't currently experiencing a stabbing, mugging, or shooting.
>it doesn't change that by all metrics violent crime and murders massively increased following the defund the police shit.
what the fuck else do you expect when people lose their jobs and livelihoods from a botched extended lockdown that didn't keep the virus spread down? you're going to blame the lack of police for that? it would've increased even if they made each police department into a full on paramilitary force and doubled each precincts manpower. they don't give a shit about poor people killing each other, only when poor people burn down a business or attack a local bank chapter.
>>

 No.437738

>>437326
>violent crime and murders massively increased following the defund the police
Substantiate this immediately
>>

 No.437752

>>437294
Nobody died because of defunding because:
1. cops weren't defunded
2. cops don't prevent crimes
>>

 No.438393

>>432482
>I'm actually rooting for him. His grillpill and "get offline" shticks are merely his own personal struggle to stop being a lazy bum and do something with his knowledge.
This man does not have knowledge and has always been a hapless yes man.
>>

 No.438653

>>436777
get the fuck out of here, vaush is a fucking retard who should be kneecapped and have his tongue cut out. never listened to chapo but from what ive seen of them peripherally theres no way they can be as bad as that disgusting manchild pedo liberal
>>

 No.438677

>>438393
He is more knowledge than the average leftypoler and certainly far more knowledgeable than the average newfag we've gotten over the past few months.
>>

 No.452905

>>

 No.452906

>>437326
>>437294
actual retards
>>

 No.452911

Fans of Chapo are just propertied failsons of boomers, prove me wrong.
>>

 No.452912

>>438677
Then why does he take hours to express points that should only take minutes.
The first tims I heard Chapo it immeditately reminded me of Rush Limbaugh.
>>

 No.452913

>>437294
Hi leftypol.ogre
>>

 No.452914

>>437326
The cops protect the gangs running drugs. There's so much crime in poor US neighborhoods because od cops not in spite of them.
>>

 No.452918

>>434026
This, Chapo are just a bunch of grifting social climbers, that's why they do nothing materiel but jerk off disgrunted middle class white kids all day.
>>

 No.452919

>>436777
I agree that hating Vaush is cringe but that was really a .ogre thing and they hated him because his brand of reactionary "leftism" caught on while their /pol/ flavored brand didn't.
>>

 No.452920

>>437226
I agree with what he's saying here but he's just stating the obvious while leaving out a lot of nuance. This content is clearly for midwits.
>>

 No.452921

>>436804
>He literally has thousands of hours of content on youtube in which he pushes against reactionary talking points. He unquestionably helped change the political discourse on of the most popular media platforms in the world. Do you really want to go back to a time where every politics video on youtube was some DUNK ON SJW!!!! or MUH CULTURAL MARXISM shit? Only because he doesn't make 8 hour long videos on our holy theory doesn't mean that he isn't leftwing.
This is the real reason Vaush is hated so much. For many white settler leftists socialism is simply a means to stop the neoliberal distruction of the white settler class, actual class struggle is peripheral.
Vaush is terrible but he's hated for all the wrong reasons by class reductionists.
>>

 No.452922

>>436830
>financially and politically exploiting the reaction to that bullshit right-wing content, and doing it in a way damaging in the long run to the left wing
Anyone taken in by Vaush was never a socialist to begin with.
And why can't you reactionary .ogres ever into nuance. No one said Vaush was good, just that he is better than what proceeded him.
>>

 No.452923

>>436929
It's idealists to believe Vaush's streams are programming Democratic talking points into zoomers and shutting out socialism. The upper middle class sheltered white subrbanite audience that listens to Vaush was already primed by their material conditions to believe what he's saying.
Socialism wouldn't florish if Vaush were gone just like it hasn't for the decades before he appeared.
>>

 No.452929

File: 1635476038447.jpg (28.48 KB, 368x440, 007 wide mouth.jpg)

>>452921
>class reductionists
You know this is a leftist discussion board, right?
>>

 No.452930

>>452929
You know that prole and booj aten't the only classes right?
>>

 No.452935

>>452930
Of course. I personally instruct private tantra classes for your mom.
>>

 No.452936

>>452921
You are explaining problems in terms of race and are attacking people who explain problems in terms of class. Clearly you must be a racist. Your racism doesn't come from a vulgar position of xenophobia, but instead your interests are in conflict with the liberation of the working class, and that is why you are attacking class conscious people, and attempting to shift the discussion away from class.
>>

 No.452945

>>452936
Race is a class, this is like pretending chattle slavery was comopletwly arbitrary in who was enslaved. The process of settler colonialism never stopped, so it constitutes a different class.
>>

 No.452946

>>452936
>Clearly you must be a racist.
LMAO, ignoring racist violence pepetuated by the state is what's racist.
>Your racism doesn't come from a vulgar position of xenophobia, but instead your interests are in conflict with the liberation of the working class,
Oh right, I giess Martin Luther King was against the working class when he ended Jim Crow.
>and that is why you are attacking class conscious people, and attempting to shift the discussion away from class.
How is stopping racism attacking class conciousness. Hurting your feelings isn't counter revolutionary.
>>

 No.452949

>>452947
Make an argument, I’m not going to make it for you,
>>

 No.452954

File: 1635543465133.jpg (125.83 KB, 940x788, carmichael a question of p….jpg)

>>452945
>Race is a class
Race is an identity, made up by the merchants that got rich from slavery, to fight racism you have to fight against the racist identities they made up.
Class is a relation to the means of production.
>>452946
the state enforces the class dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, that's where the violence comes from. The racist ideas in the heads of people would be irrelevant without the power imbalance that exists within class societies. By the way MLK was executed by the state once he started attacking capitalism as the root cause of racism. What you are doing is trying to white wash him into a liberal, and that is just despicable.
>How is stopping racism attacking class conciousness.
the accusation of "class reductionism" is made when liberals attack class conscious people on the left. That's what i was referring to.
>>

 No.452957

File: 1635560826621.jpg (216.91 KB, 1275x1702, gasstation.jpg)

>>452954
>Race is an identity,
So blacks were enslaved because they thought they were black? lol
>made up by the merchants that got rich from slavery,
Yes, and slavery is a class.
>to fight racism you have to fight against the racist identities they made up.
So I have to fight your made up spooks and not actually stop cops from physically killing black people, throwing them in jail, de facto enslaving them and keeping them locked in generational cycles of extreme poverty.
No, no, the real champions of black workers are people who cry about SJWs online like you.
>Class is a relation to the means of production.
Yes, of which slaves and indigenous people that have been de-territorialized have a different relationship to.
>the state enforces the class dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, that's where the violence comes from.
It also uses state violence to enforce white supremacy, the state couldn't settler their colonies without settlers.
>The racist ideas in the heads of people would be irrelevant without the power imbalance that exists within class societies.
My point exactly, white people such as yourself, would not be so desperate to obfuscate the class base of race if you did not materially gain from it.
>By the way MLK was executed by the state once he started attacking capitalism as the root cause of racism.
Maybe open up a history book, MLK was attacked many, many times over by the state before his death.
>What you are doing is trying to white wash him into a liberal, and that is just despicable.
LMAO, your trying to white wash him into a class reductionist. Maybe actually listen to what MLK said about whites, it was far harsher than the class reductionist line I level at you that triggers you so.
>the accusation of "class reductionism" is made when liberals attack class conscious people on the left.
It's used by people like myself as well when they see people like yourself pretending to be on the left, only to have your white spooks come out when you see POC workers try to stand up for themselves and just reach parity to what white workers already have.
If you were a real leftist you'd applaud movements like BLM and Land Back and try to get whites to recognize how their own interests lie in black and brown liberation, instead of coming out of the wood work to tut tut POCs anytime they have the audacity to want better.
>that quote
If you think the Black Panthers didn't believe racism was real, I don't know what to tell you. Go back to .ogre and cry about how there's an SJW under everyone's bed, and that's why the socialism has failed.
>>

 No.452958

>>452957
>Maybe open up a history book, MLK was attacked many, many times over by the state before his death.
And millions of white workers, it weird that they would be so keen to stop Jim Crow. I mean blacks were workers too. Yet white workers didn't mind when whites got labor concessions, just when blacks asked to stop being treated as a lower class. Hmmmmmmm
>>

 No.452972

File: 1635600832087.jpg (87.44 KB, 618x982, solidarity.jpg)

>>452957
When workers unite in class reductionist solidarity against labor aristocratic or petit bourgeois racists like you, socialism will come to America.

If you fancy yourself a socialist, not just a provocateur trying to cause racial tensions, read Fred Hampton and start with this.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/hampton/1969/11/class-struggle-godamnit.htm
>>

 No.452982

File: 1635618770486.png (112.15 KB, 300x197, feurgeson.png)

>>452972
>When workers unite in class reductionist solidarity against labor aristocratic or petit bourgeois racists like you, socialism will come to America.
>Racist summary executions of blacks have to continue because it hurts my white spooks.
Bootlicking for the state ain't revolutionary lefty/pol/.ogre.
>If you fancy yourself a socialist, not just a provocateur trying to cause racial tensions, read Fred Hampton and start with this.
Again make an argument, I already said race is a class backed my historical materialist proof. Meanwhile your colorblind approach is just liberal cope about racism being idealist, and can be stopped if everyone would just stop saying the n-word.
>>

 No.452983

>>452972
Revolution is a process, and ending structural racism is a big step toward that.
It's you who's actually racist because you think if police stopped killing and enslaving black people they'd all just become non-revolutionary are.
Unlike enlightened white workers who are simply victims of porky's manipulation, even though have plenty of political power to help black workers and effect revolution.
>>

 No.452984

>>452972
Do white workers have any obligation to help black workers in your mind? Even though they hold far more power?
Or do blacks have to wait while being eaten alive by structural racism until your socialist Jesus appears and sweeps away all the porkies?
And I'm pretty sure Fred Hampton thought racism was a real thing, just believed that the proletariat class was more critical.
Fred Hampton was wrong by the way, episodes like Black Wall Street prove it. Even blacks that become porkies never escape their racial caste.
>>

 No.452992

>>452972
So worker solidairty between POC and white workers requires minortites to continue to live with structual racism, have I got that right my recovering Nazi?
>>

 No.453006

>>452983
>>452982
>>452984
>>452992
Obvious samefag is obvious. Here's another link for you, had enough yet?
https://www.blackagendareport.com/intersectionality-marxist-critique
>>

 No.453007

>>453006
uygha, I used to listen to black agenda report podcast regularly. They'd make all you class reductionist .orges cry for your mama.
And fuck your false dichotomy, you can be class concious and know that minorites are where they're at because of settler colonialism. It's almost like the material conditons of now are deeply shaped by what happened in the past. Maybe we could call this process something, something likw historical materialism, that'd be pretty dope.
>>

 No.453008

File: 1635652107962.jpg (33.88 KB, 1287x337, IMG_20211030_204754.jpg)

>>453006
>Obvious samefag is obvious.
Cope
>>

 No.453017

>>453007

Since its pretty obvious you are arguing in bad faith or flat out trolling, I will make a set of general points for others:

When one has relatively limited resources, the choice is of how to allocate them to have greatest effect vis-a-vis your goal.

From this simple statement flows too clear issues of difference:

A marxist project/endgoal is clear focused on economic questions and class antagonism (at the globalle el). So while a person like the poster I referred to may deem as a more important racial issues, such an approach is simply a foundational difference in values and/or priorities with Marxism.

Second, the focus on minority issues even when economic and class based in nature (and not pure culture war or idpol) may yet still be an ineffective means to address those issues:

As an example, on might see the clear divide in opportunities and outcomes between the Ewe and Akan peoples in Ghana and then devide that the solution is to fight ewe specific privileges of all kinds. However this at its absolute non-grifting best might modestly improve the situation for Ewes materially, but leave the rest of the majority of population poor and deprived,and furthermore enflame tribal/ethnic tensions further. Instead a program of universal quality education, training, infrastructure construction, industrialization, etc. could be pursued which would resolve many of the existing disparity without further accentuating ethnic divisions (This in fact was one of Kwame Nkrumah's ideas but was unfortunately cut short by the 66 coup d'état. Obviously this demonstrates the difficulty of carrying out policies in practice generally)
>>

 No.453019

>>453017

Edit:

*to fight for Ewe specific privileges of various kinds.

I for got the preposition, and its important for meaning here
>>

 No.453020

File: 1635707539858.png (562.98 KB, 600x595, 1591935379-0.png)

>>453017
>Since its pretty obvious you are arguing in bad faith or flat out trolling, I will make a set of general points for others:
Ah, but it is you who is trolling sir. You frame popular uprising against street slaying of workers as anti revolutionary and the domain of annoying purple hair college students.
You argue that the ending of the brutal neo Jim Crow divides the proletariat because… well you actually never really articulate that just some vague notion of some "worker solidarity" spooks, which always requires POC's to fall on the sword of the state while white workers comfortable look on from a far from their suburbs.
You think that if you put on an Obama aire of civility no one will see through your campaign to frustrate the workers outcry for justice against the inhumanity they suffer daily.
But the cat's out of the bag, and it will no longer work, people like myself aren't interested in maintaining any type diplomatic relations with well poisoners like you .
A movement like "Land Back" would have been a pipe dream even a few years ago, and now it seems to be on the lips of every worker. This change is what you really seek to end.
>When one has relatively limited resources, the choice is of how to allocate them to have greatest effect vis-a-vis your goal.
There's limited resources because the legions of white workers that could not have cared less about their colonized brethren do nothing.
When you have limited resources you unshackle yourself the quite literal chains that bind you. You take care of yourself first.
>A marxist project/endgoal is clear focused on economic questions and class antagonism (at the globalle el). So while a person like the poster I referred to may deem as a more important racial issues, such an approach is simply a foundational difference in values and/or priorities with Marxism.
Marxism is critique of capitalism, not a totalizing philosophy of all social relations everywhere for all time. Marx himself spoke out against the chattel slavery in the US in his own time and didn't scold abolitionists for "wasting limited resources".
Protecting the proletariat from harm, even if it lacks a Marxist is character is not counter revolutionary, indeed it is in fact quite the opposite.
Picrel it's you.
>Second, the focus on minority issues even when economic and class based in nature (and not pure culture war or idpol) may yet still be an ineffective means to address those issues:
But it has been extremely effective, way more so than these nebulous "Marxist Movements" that you constantly refer to as superior but never actually explicitly name, have gained nothing material for workers.
While "idpol" movement (really a misnomer because real idpol is backed by state violence) have gone on to grab tremendous gains for workers from the Civil Rights Movement in the US, to ending apartheid in South Africa, to even now with the BSD movement against Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
Besides whining about idpol dividing the working class with absolutely no fucking proof, the only material critique you could muster of idpol movements was some fringe case in Africa.
Touch grass, have sex, seek help, dialate, but above all, stop pretending you are a socialist online. Your type are thick here but literally exist no where else. In the real world workers have categorically rejected your bad faith critique and gone on to get material gains for themselves.
Lastly, there absolutely positively nothing stopping supposed anti-idpol Marxists from getting out there and educating, agitating and organizing. But I suspect I'll still find you back here sitting on your hands in the the future.
>>

 No.453021

>>453020

Excuse me I'm not from the United States nor do I believe there is at present significant revolutionary potential in the imperial core. The degeneration into identitarian based grifting is a result of the material conditions of living of unequal exchange as well as more direct imperial plunder. I make this reply not so for the degenerate identitarian troll, but rather for other readers that may yet gain something.

I gave the example of the Akan-Ewe divide specifically because it illustrates the problem of placing ethnic issues above socio-economic and geopolitical ones.

One could have however gone with another example that has less present relevance: There were a variety of movements during the first world war in the Russian empire that were agitating for specifically nationalist ambitions. The Ukranian example comes readily to mind and serves as a good illustration: If the Bolsheviks had focused their effort specific on ethnic question they would squarely not have been to win over the great mass of people to their cause and indeed would have set the stage for further ethnic tensions especially in the republics.

By avoiding this trap they not only manage to keep a greater territorial integrity and the resulting geopolitical and economic benefits, but they also did manage relatively ethnic harmony over time.

Its an important lesson for revolutionaries, in especially in places like West Africa were there are many ethnic divides (which the colonial powers often exploited to their own advantage by divide and rule).
>>

 No.453023

>>453021
Can you actually give an example of when IdPoL stopped a socialist movement. Because every example I studied was stopped by bullets and bombs. Often fired by ethnic majorities you are so eager for socialists to fallaciate.
As for the Bolsheviks pretty sure none of those ethnic groups were seeking ethnic national liberation.
Regardless maybe the Bolsheviks should have given more consideration to ethnic concerns seeing as how the USSR collapsed under it's own weight a scant 70 years later. But instead they wasted untold amounts of power and money on holding on to the Czar's old setter colonialist claims.
Seems like you're triggered by black national liberation because it defeats the purpose of some sprawling pan continental party that you believe you'll be in charge of.
Sorry, but it's not up to your white ass to tell black workers when they should seek out justice and liberation. BECAUSE THAT TIME IS ALWAYS NOW.
There's no need to get your stamp of approval, and for those white workers whose are upset by such black national movements THEY WERE NOT REVOLUTIONARY ANYWAY.
>>

 No.453024

>>453023

One example:

The ukranian nationalist organization collaborated with the nazis during the second world war and massacred poles, jews, hungarians and even communist sympathizing ukrainians often extremely brutally.

After the war they found refuge in the us and canada and were heavily to conduct agitation against the Soviet Union. This was further exacerbated with many collaborated being pardoned and released from prison and hard labour during the hruschev years, culminating with them gaining posts in government in Ukraine after 2014 wherein there is a suppression of communists and frozen civil war with russian speaking minority.

One could on and on about how the promotion of nationalism in the republics was a factor in accelerating the destruction of the Soviet Union with its warlike deadly consequences… Not to mention Yugoslavia.
>>

 No.453025

>>453023

TLDR: Go fuck yourself you wrecker troll garbage. Ethnic nationalism has always been a tool used against decolonization, against real sovereignty of peoples, against development, against socialism, against unity and friendship of peoples.

Uncle Tom blushes when he see how well you serve your master (capitalism and imperialism)
>>

 No.453026

>>453024
Lol, the breakup of Yugoslavia was caused by German imperialism. For someone so "anti-idpol" you sure do like to parrot NATO idpol propaganda.
>The impulse for the destruction of Yugoslavia (apart from the disgusting and criminal role played by the ex-Stalinist leaders turned Serb, Croat and Slovene chauvinists) was provided by German imperialism. After the unification of Germany, it rediscovered the old policy of the Drang nach Osten–the thrust to the East–attempting to get back its old colonies and spheres of influence in Eastern Europe and the Balkans, including Slovenia and Croatia. That was bad enough. Now the sight of German planes bombing Yugoslavia for the first time since the Second World War will have infuriated the Serbs who suffered dreadful atrocities at the hands of Hitler's SS and their Croatian fascist agents, and have very long memories. This adds insult to injury and will inflame the situation still more.
>https://www.marxist.com/bombing-yugoslavia-crime-imperialism.htm
>The editor writes: "The understanding of the war among the Western public was shaped by the pronouncements of Western politicians and the writing of Western journalists - of whom far too many stubbornly stuck to their claim that at the root of the war lay ancient Balkan hatreds". Because of this the policy of the western imperialist powers has only served to ferment the process of war in former Yugoslavia, and often for their own ends, have played into the hands of nationalist leaders such as Milosevic and Tudjman.

>The book gives factual information which counters this view of the Balkans. The first two chapters on "The bonds and the fault lines" and "The making of Yugoslavia" show that there are no historic ancient hatreds (in fact, the first inter-ethnic war was not fought until 1941 when German and Italian fascists tore Yugoslavia apart). On the contrary, the south slavs were ruled by foreign powers for many years, including the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires and sought unity on many occasions. In the 19th century and early 20th centuries south Slav unity or "Yugoslavism" aimed to resist the foreign invader, particularly the influence of German imperialism in the Balkans. This gives the lie to those who justified the secession of Slovenia and Croatia in 1992 on the grounds that Yugoslavia was an "articifical state" - in fact Yugoslavia was no more "artificial" than any other nation state in Europe.

https://www.marxist.com/making-unmaking-yugoslavia.htm
>>453025
No it hasn't, now fuck off you simpering triggered spooked racist.
>>

 No.453027

>>453026

Note for anyone who might read this, the rhetorical technique the degenerate identitarian is using here is one wherein:

The actual substantive core part of the argument that is irrefutable is ignored and instead some tangential detail is then magnified and hyperfocused on:

In this specific case not only was the example the Ukranian nationalist organization clearly destructive role showing the problem of identitarian politics ignored, but morever a tangent about Yugoslavia was not only exploded but also a entire strawman constructed; And then going further,this strawman was then attacked in a very poor and bizzare way (claiming by the mere mention of Yugoslavia that one therefore supports nato intervention? stalinism having what meaning? The yugoslav leaders being ex-stalinist despite the clear worker coop market economy?)

This rhetorical strategy can succeed in two ways: Either by making the opponent argue on a completely different topic that he is not as prepared for or does not serve his original point, or else by exhausting him in wasting his time.

It is in essence a red herring. The lesson to be learned is that the opponent must no longer be argued with, since it is complete bad faith, but rather one must wish a slow and painful death upon him and move on.

In this case: Death to all the degenerate lackeys of the imperial core, black and white, brown and asian. May they be physically and metaphysically erased forever.
>>

 No.453028

>>453027
>Yugoslavia was not only exploded
Parapraxis?
>>

 No.453029

File: 1635760488752.jpg (1.44 MB, 2160x2700, pyrimads.jpg)

>>453027
>The actual substantive core part of the argument that is irrefutable is ignored and instead some tangential detail is then magnified and hyperfocused on:
MOTHERFUCKER, YOU BROUGHT UP YUGOSLAVIA AS AN EXAMPLE OF IDPOL KILLING OFF SOCIALISM NOT ME
And you don't live in a bubble, people have been troting out Yugoslavia as an example of idpol destroying socialism or a country for 30 fucking years now. So don't act all innocent when someone gets mad at you when you yet again repeat it.
And I focused on Yugoslavia because:
1.) It's far more well known historical event than the Ukrainian episode you mentioned.
2.) It's constantly memed that Yugoslavia Balkanized because of ethnic tensions.
I thought you'd get triggered by the jab at Yugo's old Stalinist leaders but that wasn't the point of the quote.
THE POINT OF THE QUOTE WAS TO SHOW THAT YUGOSLAVIA COLLAPSING BECAUSE OF IDPOL IS A WESTERN LIE
and someone wrote an entire book about it to prove it.
As for the Ukrainian shit, I don't know what to tell you. It proves nothing, we were clearly talking about leftwing or colonized idpol, not right wing fascist idpol.
Only in your spooked addled mind are such things equivocated.
This Ukrainian group was and has been clearly receiving US intelligence support this whole time. All that proves is that the US state supports fascists. Not that blacks trying to stop cops from shooting them will start Sieg Heilng in the streets if they get their way.
>>

 No.453036

>>453035
Get slapped on lefty/pol/ ogre. There's mountains of evidence that prove that race is indeed a class throughout the world. Historical material legacy of colonialism, which barely ended little more than a century ago in many places.
Sorry but porky doesn't whisper idpol into a minorities' ear and suddenly they're a raging honkey hater. That's pure and utter idealist non sense.
No, what porky does is extend institutional power to a group of workers BASED ON RACE. These are the politics settlers like you want to obfuscate with your "devil bottle" reactionary Christianity theories.
The "devil bottle" theory being that troglodytes like yourself believed people became alcoholics because devils trapped inside beer bottles would leap into men's souls when they imbibed.
>>

 No.453037

>>453036
Just go back from the beginning times of slavery and you'll see what that anon tries to tell you.
>>

 No.453039

>>453035

I think you might have referred to the wrong post. I for one agree with you: The roots if slavery are certainly not rooted in identity. The heavy racialization of slavery is fairly recent, and indeed not even on strict african/european divide.

In fact on of the roots of the inter tribal tensions amongst the various peoples in West Africa is precisely due to the fact that the class dominant groups tended to be those that waged war and sold slaves to the eventual colonizer.

One could also point to the sometimes quite brutal exploitation of the Aztecs towards neighbouring peoples that factored into their downfall.

If anything this reinforces the point that ethnic tension is often exploited by colonizers for their various schemes, even when these tensions do have historically real material basis.
>>

 No.453040

>>453035
>Dat picture.
LMAO, the media doesn't report on open slave markets in Libya because they're the direct fucking result of US imperialist bombing that drove Libya into becoming a failed state.
Not because of "IdPoL" where the media is afraid of reporting on stories that make Muslim minorities look bad.
The depth to which racists like yourself can feel sorry for yourself never ceases to amaze me. I guess you've been taking lessons from /pol/.
>>

 No.453079

>>453077
>Blacks can’t be racists.
They’re called house uyghurs,
THAT’S U
>>

 No.453120

After getting BTFO’d in this thread the anti Idpol ogres all ranway into the new Idpol thread with Lenin’s face.
>>

 No.453131

>>453120
Boo ya! Class reductionists on suicide watch! Well done comrade, you have been awarded 5 college credits and kimberle crenshaw hirself salutes your frontline efforts. The whole bluecheck twitter community is giving you a standing ovation right now.
>>

 No.453148

>>453131
>;_;
This post in a nutshell.
>>

 No.453159

>>453154
Lol I’m not obsessed with racism, it’s you “anti-idpoler” that come out of the wood work to gaslight everyone anytime racism comes up with your bullshit fascist talking points and conspiracy theories.
>>

 No.453163

>>453154
>Your obsession with racism is obviously showing and you are entrapped in false cult for worship of racism and every single thing is based on the racism, right? Your kind is the most racist humanoid creatures on this beautiful planet.
You’re victim complex is really amazing,
>>

 No.453237

>leftoids still act surprised that nonwhite idpolers latch-on to their movements in order to leech gibs from whitey
>>

 No.453257

>>453245
None of what she is saying is true.

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