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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1645681097406-0.png (3.17 KB, 783x391, images (10).png)

File: 1645681097406-1.jpg (42.63 KB, 624x411, _79664147_024386181-1.jpg)

 No.454510[Last 50 Posts]

Ukraine's Thread, for fuck's sake
>>

 No.454511

https://twitter.com/ASBMilitary?t=3MsfLEgV_ZuIZdyshuOn7A&s=09

Russian biased source but good for updates.
>>

 No.454512

I can’t believe this shit is popping off like this, it feels like being flung back into the 80’s.
>>

 No.454513

>>454512
I know, it's mental. All we can do is hope it doesn't go hot ig
>>

 No.454516

The real ugly truth?
Ukraine was a fucking failed state in anarchy, basically. So there was no covid rule nor anyone that could enforce it. Now, thanks to Putin, there will be. WEFspeedhim.
>>

 No.454517

>>454513
>All we can do is hope it doesn't go hot
2 yeals in the scamdemic and stll you don't get that they are all in this together? The war is already here and they wage it against us. UKR is a fucking show.
>>

 No.454518

How did Ukraine form as a state anyway? I've heard it is basically a fake state with no real national identity.
>>

 No.454519

>>454518
Ukraine has no history as a modern state, yes, being under polish-lithuanian and then the tsar rule. So what? Ukraine has a story of being a soviet state. Putin the nazi wants to erase the bolshevik revolution, he openly stated that.
>>

 No.454520

>>454519
That's weird though because Russia is considering eastern Ukraine part of the Russian territories.
>>

 No.454526

File: 1645765498996.png (712.56 KB, 1280x711, ClipboardImage.png)

Oppose the Putin government’s invasion of Ukraine and US-NATO warmongering! For the unity of Russian and Ukrainian workers!
>That the US and NATO are prepared to take the world to the brink of nuclear war, with all its horrific consequences, testifies to the staggering level of recklessness and aggressiveness that now prevails in all the centers of world imperialism.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/02/25/pers-f25.html

Very comprehensive and accurate analysis! It is a coherent and powerful rebuttal to the narrative spewed by corrupt corporate-owned media.

Indeed, this crisis does not serve the interests of the working class in Russia, Ukraine. USA, Europe or anywhere else. Specifically, it is not the oligarchs and their stooges that are on the battlefield risking their lives or that of their families. They are not even risking their own money to wage wars. Instead, they profit from wars by selling weapons, finance the antagonists on both sides of the conflict, loot resources, enact sanctions to enrich themselves when prices rise and profit from reconstruction contracts after the war. In fact, the working class is on the battlefield spilling its blood, incurring lifetime injuries, physical and mental, and paying for the war in taxes and fees. Wars enrich the capitalist class and impoverish the workers and divide them worldwide.

WW1 and WW2 were imperialist wars to divide and redivide the world into spheres of influence in order to deflect from internal social conflicts caused by the capitalist system in various countries. This conflict could also be a prelude to WW3 for the same reasons. Oligarchs in different countries feel their survival or interests threatened by other oligarchs in other part of the world. They cannot agree on the resolution of their conflict via peaceful means, they resort to force. This is similar to thugs in different gangs using intimidation, threats and violence to defend or expand their turfs.

The propaganda on both sides is simply used to mystify the inherent contradictions of the capitalist system that lead to continuous wars, pillage and subjugation of the working class. Thus this conflict,.like all others, is amongst imperialist powers for greed, corruption and exploitation of the working class worldwide. War must be opposed by anyone who believes in the noble Marxist principles. Instead, efforts must made to educate and organize the working class so that it is able to assume its historic role of abolishing capitalism and building a new socioeconomic system based upon justice, equality and brotherhood throughout the world.
>>

 No.454531

>>454528
fml
>>

 No.454532

File: 1645800499491.jpg (172.32 KB, 1066x615, repin.jpg)

It would be nice if Ukraine really return to its etymology. Like the frontier. Free from digital prisons, free from vaccines and all that bullshit. And you can join the cossacks.
Please Putin, give her this consitution.
>>

 No.454533

The amount of coping about Ukraine on Reddit is unreal. Every little embarassing incident to Russia is framed as the point where it all falls apart for Putin.
>>

 No.454534

>>454533
Kek, redditoids are the most pathetic animal on the internet.
>>

 No.454536

Does anyone know if the Russian public is really protesting the war alot. That's what they keep saying on the news.
>>

 No.454537

>>454536
there are protests but they aren't massive or anything.
>>

 No.454539

I got called a Nazi sympathizer today for not immediately falling behind the anti Russia narrative
>>

 No.454541

>>454532
A place without jannies, a place without worries, a place where the nazbol gang HQ could finally settle, a place for you and me.
>>

 No.454542

File: 1645890568146.jpg (153.43 KB, 966x1200, ballcountries ukraine happ….jpg)

>>454540
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 No.454545

File: 1645902411245.png (1.04 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

The campaign against Russian conductor Valery Gergiev: Middle-class hysteria in the service of war
>The announcement by New York City’s Carnegie Hall that Gergiev would no longer be conducting the Vienna Philharmonic on Friday is the product of war fever whipped up by the US government with the help of the pliant capitalist press.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/02/26/pers-f26.html

In March 1918, the Swiss conductor of the Boston Symphony Orchestra, Dr. Karl Muck, was seized in a midnight raid from his home and put into a concentration camp for 17 months before being permanently deported to Copenhagen. Many in Boston took grave issue with this attack on the arts, which also saw the arrest of 29 orchestra members, but there was no political leadership to channel the opposition. It would take decades for the Boston Symphony to recover artistically.

Then as now every official communique was saturated with dishonesty. Muck's summer rental had "electronics," presumably for secret communications with the enemy. That he rented it from a New York professor of science who studied electricity did not enter the public denunciations. Muck had "secret messages" in his papers. These turned out to be markings in the musical scores he was preparing for performance. Muck refused to play the national anthem at concerts – he had not been asked to do so, and when later asked before arrest, he did. By the time of Muck's arrest, the newspapers were printing anonymous letters claiming he was planning to blow up munitions plants, tampering with soldiers' guns, and sending prostitutes with venereal diseases into American military bases.

This affair was orchestrated by the notorious A. Mitchell Palmer, would later brutalize the left during the Palmer Raids of the 1919-1920 red scare. He did so as the Democratic US Attorney General appointed by that "great liberal," Woodrow Wilson, and was assisted by his young lieutenant, J. Edgar Hoover.

During the months Dr. Muck sweltered within Camp Oglethorpe on the Georgia/Tennessee border, he organized 100 internees into an amateur orchestra. On December 12, 1918, this group, playing from hand-written parts, performed Brahms' Academic Festival Overture and Beethoven's Eroica symphony to 2,000 internees, officials, and townspeople from neighboring Chattanooga who had lined the streets outside the compound to hear the performance.

One of his fellow internees wrote of that night, "when Muck raised his baton one could have heard a mouse running. The whole performance was unforgettable … The American officers who attended said it was the greatest revelation they had experienced."

Dr. Muck would never again set foot in the United States.

The ruling class has no interest in the independence of artists or really anything else when it conflicts with their designs and an exercise in towering inhumanity is to them merely an item on their financial ledger.
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 No.454546

File: 1645903866437.mp4 (11.47 MB, 720x1280, VID_20220226_143013_605.mp4)

Azov batallion refusing to let people evacuate. Either be arrested and used as a human shield or be shot
>>

 No.454548

>>454546
The same liberals that wrote off the trucker protest because of one flag are now sending their money to these literal neonazis

What a world
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 No.454549

Fight covid! Save lives! Stop the drive to World War 3!

"On Saturday, February 26, the World Socialist Web Site is hosting an international online webinar to oppose the US-NATO drive to war against Russia over Ukraine.

The Russian invasion of Ukraine must be opposed by all socialists and class conscious workers. However, this action cannot be understood outside of three decades of unending war spearheaded by American imperialism and the relentless expansion of the NATO military alliance into Eastern Europe.

The Biden administration, by refusing to discuss Russia’s objections to Ukraine’s integration into NATO, used Ukraine as bait. It incited the invasion, which will now be used as a pretext for escalating confrontation with Russia.

There is an enormous danger that the conflict in Ukraine will develop into a world war involving the US and Russia, the two most heavily armed nuclear powers in the world. There is a madness in this policy, but it is a madness with objective causes. The drive to war is fueled by a toxic mixture of imperialist geopolitics and insoluble internal crises, enormously exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic.

In this webinar, an international panel of leading members of the International Committee of the Fourth International and WSWS writers will review the causes and consequences of the US-NATO war drive and present the political basis for a fight against war."
>>

 No.454550

>>454548
Some one told me yesterday the azof battalion makes up a marginal percentage of the army.
>>

 No.454551

Ghost of kyiv reportedly sucks off over 70 russian soldiers, threatens to eat Putin's ass.
>>

 No.454552

>>454548
>feds are feds
>what a world
?
>>

 No.454555

>>454550
>Some one told me yesterday the azof battalion makes up a marginal percentage of the army.
The US is supplying and training specifically the azof battalion, they didn't just happened to get mixed in with a general military alliance. So how much of the army they make up wasn't the issue. If that doesn't bother the liberals, maybe we should call liberalism marginal fascism.
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 No.454556

>>454555
Nice digits. I had no idea the US was supplying azof battalion directly, kek.
>>

 No.454559

>Republicans against sending any help to Ukraine while George Soros demands boots on the grounds
Based? Is the realignment finally happening?
>>

 No.454560

Ukraine will be renamed Leninstan
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 No.454563

>>

 No.454567

>>454559
Finally George Soros has awakened the left.
>>

 No.454570

The longer this war will be the worse for Russia. They are already under hundreds of sanctions, just like DPRK
>>

 No.454572

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1498119251672059909.html
Some good analysis on the situation so far
>>

 No.454573

File: 1646078929531.png (819.72 KB, 1280x853, ClipboardImage.png)

Conflict between US-NATO and Russia over Ukraine threatens nuclear war
>Sixty years after the Cuban Missile crisis, the war in Ukraine has brought the world to the point where the exchange of nuclear weapons is a real possibility.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/02/28/pers-f28.html

Yesterday evening I have listened carefully the entire Webinar session of WSWS staff members.
The committee members unanimously abhor the Russian invasion of Ukraine in all its manifestations, but at the same time they refuse to blame this ongoing war situation on the person of Vladimir Putin alone.
In fact, it would be fair to say that years of US and NATO provocations of the Eastern Europe and the support of Nazi and far right forces in Ukraine in the aftermath of 2014 color revolution has now produced this ongoing geopolitical conflict of Ukraine. What further exacerbated the situation is the insistence of Kiev government joining the NATO camp which is interpreted by Moscow as existential threat to their security interests. All of this put together and the barrage of propaganda that is coming from mainstream media today is creating the conditions for major escalation. We can all agree that in the midst of all this growing sabre-rattling calls the working classes of Ukraine, Russia and elsewhere can join the antiwar movement that is being proposed by WSWS as a serious attempt to stop the madness that is being unfolded as of this writing. After all working classes of all lands have absolutely no interest in supporting either the Russian nationalism that came after 1991 Soviet dissolution or the Western imperialist block.
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 No.454585

File: 1646096753208.png (1.02 MB, 1280x1013, ClipboardImage.png)

>>

 No.454587

Glowie thread. Fence sitters that oppose both sides only serve western imperialism
>>

 No.454599

>>

 No.454602

>>454600
British empire and Ukraine are police states squared, at least Russians were willing to defend Snowden. Critical support to Russia and their struggle against the imperialist financial establishment.
>>

 No.454607

>>454603
>the US has done based things too like defending rojava
nice bait
>>

 No.454608

File: 1646150590325.gif (202.22 KB, 245x176, e55.gif)

>>

 No.454610

>>454603
Except Ukraine has literal Nazis in it's government while Russia doesn't.
>>

 No.454611

>>454610
Wow so what? Big fucking woopty do. Russia is still shit you retards
>>

 No.454613

File: 1646167558798.png (1.19 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

NATO goes to war against Russia
>Already substantially armed and with weapons pouring in, Ukraine is the front line in a war aimed at regime change in Moscow and the complete subordination of Russia to NATO.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/01/pers-m01.html

It is extremely crucial to the reader to see the explosive events that are taking form and shape in Ukraine beyond the misinformation and propaganda coming from Western news outlets. A legitimate question to all people at this point is why we got to this war situation this quick in the first place. Before answering this question I need to point out that I neither support Vladimir Putin's government nor his nationalist policies that are intended to divide the Russian and Ukrainian working classes along ethnic lines. In any case, even before the invasion of Ukraine the US and their NATO allies were deliberately provoking Russia in Eastern Europe and Black sea region. The Kremlin from their part have made it clear from the beginning that their security concerns for the past thirty years were constantly rebuffed by US, EU and their NATO allies, and what further exacerbated the situation is the insistence of Kiev government to join the NATO block at a time of growing hostility and mistrust. So they claim all this put together and the ongoing violence taking place in Eastern Ukraine has left them with little choice. Now the Western imperialist states are exploiting the grave situation in Ukraine for their own geopolitical agenda against Moscow. The working classes from their part should be consciously aware of all these facts for the sake of developing the antiwar movement which is our only hope remaining at this point in time.
>>

 No.454619

>>454608
they coopted an anti-imperialist struggle and made them agents of U.S imperialism then abandoned them anyway, it was the same thing the british did during the arab revolt
>>

 No.454620

File: 1646178753912.jpg (37.36 KB, 720x430, 1646178735835.jpg)

kek
>>

 No.454621

>>454619
Indeed that is true. My point being that; how easy we forget. They are simply using Ukraine to further their own interests and Ukrainians and the retards who support them are falling for it hand over fist.

But not Russia.
>>

 No.454623

>>454620
true but antifa shouldn't be there
>>

 No.454625

They are saying Putin plans to start a new international wtf
>>

 No.454628

>>454625
Not really, but they do intend to host a "world anti-fascist congress".
>>

 No.454633

>>454628
That's pretty ironic considering how fucking authoritarian Putin is.
>>

 No.454636

File: 1646246389565-1.png (120.1 KB, 1208x472, screen .png)

>>

 No.454638

>>454611
Nazis are worse, and where we’re all these tears for Dombas when Ukraine’s Nazi battalion was shelling it for 8 years.
>>

 No.454641

This is a custerfuck, Russia gunna lose.
>>

 No.454642

>>454641
Literally impossible
>>

 No.454646

>>454641
>This is a custerfuck,
This has been a clusterfuck since 2014 when the US overthrew the democratically elected government , 14 thousand people were killed in random bombings and mortar attacks, in the years that preceded the big happening.
>Russia gunna lose.
This isn't over yet, but it looks like Russia got this one in the bag. It took the US 3 weeks to capture Baghdad in the Iraq war, and Russia might capture Kiev in 2 weeks
>>

 No.454648

>>454510
My gawd, the coping at leftypo.org is as bad as it is at Reddit.
I got banned and called "Agent Kollniski" because I said the invasion is a disaster and is already screwing Russia economically, which are both objectively true.
>>

 No.454649

>>454648
They have no objective analysis. They are just Russia cucks.
I mean I support Russia over Ukraine but that is deff true and it's also true that Russia is still an oligarch extreme capitalist shit hole.
>>

 No.454653

File: 1646349163479.png (150.47 KB, 964x655, Screenshot_5.png)

Checkout my leftypol.org ban.
>>

 No.454655

>>454654
Lol I got banned again but this time they didn't quote any of my posts. They must have seen this thread and gotten embarrassed that other people saw how petty their bans are.
>>

 No.454656

File: 1646379584555.png (81.51 KB, 1131x655, Screenshot_7.png)

Now I got banned for calling someone a racist.
>>

 No.454657

Russia Today is no longer accessible even on platforms like telegram. The left has a new tendency towards becoming the side of free speech again! Its no longer the soviets censoring coca-cola and blue jeans, its the west that is enforcing a new kind of cultural protectionism
>>

 No.454659

File: 1646420885378.png (1.45 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

The war in Ukraine: The questions that must be asked
>The deep-rooted and essential causes of a war are revealed not in how a war begins but in how it develops and to what it leads.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/04/pers-m04.html

Clear, concise and comprehensive analysis of current events in their historical and geopolitical context by WSWS. The international bourgeoisie, using its lackeys, has developed a strategy to gradually implement its domination globally. The capitalists have their mercenaries in the military, think tanks, government, media and in every domain to methodically and ruthlessly conquer every corner of the earth and exploit its natural resources and workers for obscene profits. Thus the response to these diabolical worldwide machinations must not be national, regional; or 'tribal'. To be effective in dismantling capitalism, revolutionary forces of the working class must unite globally and build a system based on social needs, not profits.
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 No.454661

File: 1646432009112.jpg (385.14 KB, 972x1886, NonCredibleDefense-t6kdt7.jpg)

OH NO NO NO NO
>>

 No.454666

File: 1646516053317.png (1.17 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

The hysterical anti-Russian campaign and the US-NATO drive to war with Russia
>Media outlets, academics, and scientists who ought to know better have lapped up the pro-war propaganda of the imperialist powers, according to which the world was a peaceful paradise until Putin sent Russian troops into Ukraine.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/05/wbun-m05.html

Truth, therefore, isn't the only casualty when it comes to war, but also high culture.
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 No.454668

https://archive.is/4zqsI
USA is trying to persuade Venezuela to drop Russia.

A really high autism score play here would be for Venezuela to accept as long as the USA publicly renounces guiado and calls him a pretender. This would undermine their future attempt to keep zelensky as a pretend leader of ukraine. This is what would help russia the most
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 No.454669

File: 1646522547863-0.jpg (95.4 KB, 587x482, 20220305_231703.jpg)

File: 1646522547863-1.mp4 (7.27 MB, 408x720, Y2Mate.is - 14 убитых фоль….mp4)

(vid attached NSFL)

reddit army takes another L, it seems that karma is worth more than opsec these days
>>

 No.454670

>>454669
We did it reddit.
>>

 No.454673

File: 1646534853901.jpg (264.18 KB, 1280x960, 1646534844130.jpg)

Anarchists wtf are you doing fighting to defend a state
>>

 No.454674

>>454673
How did it come to this?
>>

 No.454675

>>454540
>United Nations
Strange way to spell "European Union".
>>

 No.454677

File: 1646595030834.jpg (21.22 KB, 734x280, 1646595015675.jpg)

lol
>>

 No.454680

>>454653
you're an idiot and deserve it.
but the fact that the glowies at .org are pro russia shows how this shit is just spectacle of the great reset. putin is going to use it to speed up the reset in russia. that's fucking it. i was hoping it could have wrecked up all that shit. fuck putin and his vlassovites and all the duginites and larouchites. just cia agents.
>>

 No.454688

https://edwardslavsquat.substack.com/p/up-next-global-food-crisis?s=r

"Import substitution was supposed to shield Russia from economic shenanigans. The policy has given a huge boost to Russian agriculture—but there’s a problem.

Apart from grains, Russia imports nearly all of its seeds. Yes, even potato seeds.


Sigh.
As one Russian farmer explained:

Today we buy seeds abroad, because during the Yeltsin era all seed funds were destroyed, and seed stations were closed,” said farmer Arkady Dudov. “It takes decades to revive all this… As a result, all our seeds are now Dutch and American. They sell us hybrids that we grow."

this is the reality. putin's regime is exterminating humanity alongside his western counterparts it's fucking maddening.
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 No.454689

File: 1646668747277.jpg (79.03 KB, 898x594, potatoes with sprouts.jpg)

>>454688
>potato seeds
Aren't that just potatoes ?

>Today we buy seeds abroad, because during the Yeltsin era all seed funds were destroyed, and seed stations were closed,” said farmer Arkady Dudov. “It takes decades to revive all this

It's takes a long time to build up a seedbank for optimal yields, but it doesn't take long to get a working one.

>this is the reality. putin's regime is exterminating humanity alongside his western counterparts it's fucking maddening.

A neutral Ukraine as a buffer was a bargain for preventing this shit. The blame goes towards the US.
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 No.454692

>>454680
How did I deserve it? Russian military was alway thought of as near peer to the US. No one thought a military comparable to burgerland would be challenged at all by a pipspueak like Urkraine. And it’s mostly due to Russia’s own incompetence.
I’d be like if the US invaded Mexico and stood stagnant for two weeks.
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 No.454693

>>454688
Damn, the neocons really thought of everything. At this point I’m starting to think Putin is a Western Manchurian candidate he’s taking the bait so hard.
>>

 No.454695

File: 1646684363957.png (1.4 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

Stop the reckless spiral toward nuclear war!
>The confrontation between US-NATO and Russia threatens to escalate out of control, with catastrophic consequences.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/07/pers-m07.html

The accelerating class struggle due to the objective conditions in the last two years would help build the much needed antiwar movement against both inequality and global war situation which is becoming the ruling class response to all the growing contradictions within the existing social order.
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 No.454697

>>454692
IIRC: The Russian military is not even close to comparable to the US military. Not even close. Nothing is, sadly.
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 No.454698

>>454689
Potatos are enlarged roots.
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 No.454701

>>454692
you believe the propaganda on tv
>>

 No.454703

>>454693
Putin isn't taking any bait. He rules Russia on behalf of London.
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 No.454713

File: 1646769973733.png (1.78 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

Playing reckless politics on the rim of a volcano
>Trotsky’s description of the world on the very eve of World War II acquires extraordinary relevance in the present situation. All the governments are behaving with staggering recklessness.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/08/pers-m08.html

David's perspective indeed illustrates the adage of history repeating itself as no lessons have been learned from the tragic events of WW1 and WW2. The deep internal crisis in capitalist societies is yet endangering the world with a nuclear confrontation. Thus the conclusion we must draw is as long as capitalism is the dominant socioeconomic system worldwide, wars will not stop. Internal wars against the working class will continue and intensify and external aggression against others to loot their resources and exploit their workers will see no cessation.

In addition to David enumeration of the four internal contradictions in the US, the American capitalist class is being challenged from the the outside as well. The fiasco in Iraq, the debacle in Afghanistan, the defeat in Syria, the stalemate to impose a puppet regime on Yemen, the failures of the sanctions against Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, North Korean, Nicaragua, Russia and others. Add the move by Europe to have closer economic relations with Russia and China. The regime in Washington feels threatened internally by the political divisions and the failures abroad. The only policy to sustain the center of imperialism is the continuous printing of money out of thin air (quantitative easing) and wars to save the military industrial complex and the banking system..

The agony of capitalism is moving humanity to the precipice of annihilation. Russia will not submit and China knows it is next target of the imperialists. North Korea and Pakistan are aware the West victory will seal their fate into destruction or total surrender. In fact, the world is facing total dictatorship of capital globally or revolution worldwide. The stakes are so high in this crisis, it is beyond Ukraine.

The working class must denounce the deadly propaganda fueling the war fever and organize itself globally to put an end to this madness, once and for all.
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 No.454715

lol at bidens life right now. He is blaming russia for $5 gas and calling it a Putin spike. No one is buying that shit. Midterms are going to btfo democrats lmao
>>

 No.454725

>>454715
I can't wait for 2024 I can't believe I have to deal with 2 more years of this faggot.
>>

 No.454744

>>454680
>but the fact that the glowies at .org are pro russia shows how this shit is just spectacle of the great reset. putin is going to use it to speed up the reset in russia. that's fucking it. i was hoping it could have wrecked up all that shit. fuck putin and his vlassovites and all the duginites and larouchites. just cia agents.

WTF is wrong with you for saying that shit? You realize most of the mod team there are Russian and that yes RT is admitting to conscription now and it is very possible they could be sent down to go fight? You realize many of their moderators and staff are gay and lgbt+ and would be arrested by their own Russian government if they were caught right? You fucking realize that? yet you still say that dumb shit? I need a break from this sight for a while, fuck this shit
>>

 No.454745

>>454744
>Digits

Can't tell if trolling or not.
>>

 No.454752

File: 1646942822877.png (1.05 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

The US-Ukrainian Strategic Partnership of November 2021 and the Russian invasion of Ukraine
>A principled, left-wing opposition to the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine requires uncompromising opposition to US/NATO. Absent that, claims of being “anti-war” are hypocritical and deceitful.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/10/pers-m10.html

The Statement of the WSWS Editorial Board provides an excellent and comprehensive summary of the current events. The causes and consequences of this crisis are clearly outlined. Special emphasis has been noted about the specific imperialist forces vying for the re-division of the world and its resources, as was the case in WW1 and WW2.

What I would add is the entire imperialist world order established after WW2 is being challenged by many in different regions of the globe. In the Middle East, Iran and its allies, including Yemen, contest the West's domination. In Latin America and close by, Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua, Peru, Bolivia, Argentina and others struggle to free themselves of the imperialist control. In Europe, Serbia. Belarus and Russia refuse to submit to imperialism. In Asia, North Korea, China and others resist the hegemonic designs of the Western Imperialism.

Even within the capitalist societies there are social forces threatening the capitalist system. Thus capitalism is assailed and being challenged from internal and external forces

Another point I might add is the US and Its vassals are facing two strategic threats which have become their immediate targets to overcome, even at the cost of a nuclear confrontation. The US views Russia as a major military threat impeding its geo-strategic goals. The Americans have also considered China the other economic threat. Worse, the US foreign policy has caused the alliance of both adversaries. The current Western imperialist strategy to subdue or significantly weaken Russia and in parallel provoke China. The Americans are focusing more on the destruction of Russia by economic warfare to cause internal regime change. If Putin and his oligarchs survive the onslaught, they will be weakened and primed for military intervention or surrender.

Once the Russian threat is reduced or eliminated, the imperialist will refocus on China which will become isolated and deprived of a strong ally. Thus in the scheme of things, Ukraine crisis is simply one event in the overall imperialist strategy of world domination by the US and its allies.

No doubt, Russia and China, capitalist with their own interests, still oppress their own working class. Both countries simply want an accommodation and peaceful co-existence within the imperialist system on the conditions their interests are not threatened.

Understanding the geopolitics is necessary for the working class to calibrate its strategy in its continuous class struggle. It is evident the workers across the globe do not benefit from inter-capitalist conflicts. Au contraire, these quarrels divide them. Instead, the working class must unite worldwide and build a more equitable and peaceful socioeconomic system based on social needs, not profits.
>>

 No.454754

>Emails also showed that Meta would allow praise of the right-wing Azov battalion, which is normally prohibited, in a change first reported by The Intercept.
Facebook allowing for racism against russians only. We are really heading into another world
>>

 No.454755

>>454754
Amazing, we truly are entering a brave new world.
>>

 No.454756

>>454688
>the ruling class
>"what if we make the holodomor real, and global?"
>"and we start it in the ukraine!"
>everyone laughs
>>

 No.454760

>>454756
They will blame it on Russia no doubt.
>>

 No.454761

File: 1647030866370.png (1.78 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

The NATO campaign against Russia will drive escalating class struggle across the world
>The disastrous global impact of the sanctions regime against Russia and the gutting of social spending to pay for the military will drive explosive struggles, in which mass anger will intersect with the growing radicalization which is already underway as a consequence of the pandemic.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/11/pers-m11.html

It is very clear the world is heading for another major global economic crisis triggered by the war in Ukraine. The reckless steps taken by the US and its western alleys have already made oil and gas prices skyrocketing and also increase many critical commodities. The oil prices have reached US$ 130 per barrel as the article states and some analysts estimate that this will go up to $200. With Russia's number, one wheat exporter in the world and with Ukraine accounts for a third of all exports has created a serious crisis in the food supply chain. Prices of aluminum, neon, and palladium have also started to increase sharply. This is under conditions that the world is experiencing a record level of inflation in several decades.

The quote from Hermann Goering is I think very applicable to the present situation and sums up the present mood of the ruling elite. Though Biden demands sacrifices for the war effort, the working class is in no mood for that. Even in America, the workers have started to fight back after being suppressed by the unions for decades. The oil and gas crisis will create a far more volatile situation than the oil shocks in the 1970s. Though the Stalinists be able to defeat that wave of strike with the help of the Pabloites then, they are today are a very discredited bunch. Conditions are greatly maturing to resolve the crisis of the leadership of the working class, and the outcome of the present crisis will completely depend on it.
>>

 No.454762

File: 1647049392228.mp4 (694.36 KB, 554x360, 1647049287468.mp4)

Putin continues his campaign of terror bombing in Kyiv
>>

 No.454763

>>454762
Yeah killing civilians is pretty fucked.
>>

 No.454768

File: 1647112240401.png (1.21 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

Regarding war crimes, Russian and American
>It is impossible to speak in an honest fashion about war crimes while remaining silent about US imperialism.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/12/pers-m12.html

WSWS once more exposes the hypocrisy of the West in general, and of the US in particular, when it concerns war crimes and human rights abuses. This well written article provides ample and easily verifiable details of the war crimes perpetrated by the US across the globe.

In addition to war crimes committed by the US military itself, add the millions of killing, tortured and maimed for life as a result coup d'etat, regime changes, covert operations and the outsourcing of killings and torture by the US to rogue regimes. Furthermore, factor in the murder and suffering of millions more via sanctions.

To some degree, no doubt most, if not all, governments abuse human rights and some commit genocides to a certain extent. Each perpetrator must be held accountable regardless. However, the US accuses and punishes its adversaries of crimes but has threatened anyone who dares investigate its war crimes or human rights violations. In a capitalist society, the ruling class disposes of anyone that threatens its interests and privileges,

In fact, capitalism treats the working class as a disposable commodity economically. Workers are stripped of their fundamental rights and dignity. Anyone who challenges the laws of class exploitation and domination is subject to harm. By its very nature, capitalism does not adhere to respect of human rights or sanctity of life. Profits and capital accumulation are the overriding motives, not morality, decency or social justice.

For the West to speak about human rights and war crimes is analogous to a prostitute preaching about morality. It is ironic and cruel, but more importantly hypocrite and deceptive.

WSWS eloquently denounces the double standard of the West which wants to enforce the application of human rights and try others for war crimes, but claim exceptionalism when it is guilty of same, or worse, crimes.
>>

 No.454773

File: 1647160282570.mp4 (7.51 MB, 1280x528, sanctions.mp4)

Trade between China and Russia has increased by 39% compared to the same period last year.
>>

 No.454777

hi comrades, im just visiting from 4chan/pol/…wowo put down your makarov, i come in peace!

did you realise that the hotbed of neo nazi screeching is now a resounding supporter of putin and russia?
yes we hate nazis all of a sudden and want cccp2.0

the catch is we want it to bring down the jews

so can we be friends at least for a while, the combined power would be fearful like stalin and hitler had a lovechild
>>

 No.454778

>>454773
Haha

I mean the US should have sent his coming let's be honest

>>454777

Just because both of us have superficially similar short term goals.foesnt mean anything especially larping on the internet.
>>

 No.454779

File: 1647203879038.jpg (169.82 KB, 939x960, 1646941299894.jpg)

>>454778
short term for sure but first the greater enemy
capitalism is out of control and built on a foundation of lies. until the people seize the corporations and assets of the billionairs/oligarchs/ our situation gets worse.
sooon we will be too weak and demoralised to fight.
>>

 No.454780

>>454773
Imagine being proud that your only trading partner is a country whose products are synonymous with junk.
>>

 No.454781

>>454780
The US gets like 60% of it's importants from China.
>>

 No.454782

File: 1647205485913.jpg (80.41 KB, 500x500, 1646935933659.jpg)

>>454780
>>synonymous

public perception doesnt matter.
china makes cheap products, good products, and products nobody else makes.
choose one
cheap people buy cheap products then bitch about it and blame china for making stuff at the price tightwads are willing to pay.

two ways to shop. sort by price or sort by ratings. the ones complaining are the ones who sort by price.

believe me is you buy a true flagship phone from china, or industrial machine, components etc and source it from the right guy and dont skrimp you will get as good as awestern product or better.

if you are going to be a capitalist be prepared to spend a little cash to get what you want
>>

 No.454783

File: 1647212162907.png (625.13 KB, 1001x679, 1646963233000-0.png)

>>454779
My issue with this logic is and always has been that, realistically, you are not against capitalism any more than an ancap, or, some other right winger. You simply want to rebrand capitalism with your own specific birthmarks. This is why no such union has ever made sense because you are just advocating for more of the same with a new coat of paint.
>>

 No.454786

File: 1647295175074.png (937.18 KB, 1280x719, ClipboardImage.png)

The NATO-Russia conflict spirals out of control
>The war between Russia and Ukraine, now well into its third week, is rapidly and dangerously escalating.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/14/pers-m14.html

This crisis is not only economic and military, it is also in the information sphere. To denounce the Western propaganda fueling the war, WSWS continues to provide clear and critical perspective alerting the world of the mortal and immediate danger for humanity at large. WSWS Marxist analysis shows events slowly cascading into global conflict. It is evident the capitalists are playing Russian roulette with billions of lives with their aggression and miscalculations. At this very dangerous moment, both camps are in deadly embrace with no one backing down. The working class has no interest in wars. Thus the urgency and danger we all face today dictate workers mobilize and stop the madness.

This is a repeat of WW1 and WW2, however with greater intensity and lethality. The capitalists again plunge the world into another conflict for pillage and profits globally. The Western imperialists are all in this battle. The coming war will devastate the world, the environment and humanity.

The current planned conflict started with clear objectives of decoupling Russia from Europe and killing NS2 as the immediate goal. The second objective has been to destroy Russia, by all means, to isolate and weaken China for subsequent war on the Chinese. Defeating both adversaries will give the US complete domination of the globe and allow it to stop the assault on dethroning the US dollar as the world currency reserve which will lead to the demise of US empire and the resulting fall of the Western world order.

Both Russia and China are facing existential threats. Their allies like Iran, North Korea, Cuba and others realize the risks as well. The spark has been lit in Ukraine, however, with NATO increasing its involvement and threats, the situation may explode any moment in WW3. Russia is no match for NATO in a conventional war, thus it will resort to the use of nuclear weapons. Retaliation may follow then hell will break loose from there.

The stakes are high for both capitalist camps and the world. Events are rapidly changing and the world is descending into chaos, misery and death. Capitalists are intoxicated and out of control. The working class has the historical and moral responsibility to intervene and dispense of capitalism, source of inequality, wars and dehumanization.
>>

 No.454789

WHAT IS HAPPENING IN AND AROUND UKRAINE
March 14, 2022
There is a war in Ukraine. Outwardly, it looks like an armed conflict between Russia and Ukraine. All political forces, including Left, have spoken out about these events. The range of assessments: from humanistic-emotional (“people are dying, stop the war”) to purely class (“The West is pushing two oligarchic regimes”). In fact, this conflict has deep roots. When analyzing the situation, we must take into account both the national content of the class struggle and the class content of the national struggle.

What is Ukraine? The territory of present-day Ukraine until the middle of the XVII century was a sparsely populated space, contested by neighboring countries. By the beginning of the XX century the lands of present-day Ukraine were divided between Poland, Austria-Hungary and Russia. After 1917 revolution some of these lands temporarily declared independence. However in 1922 they joined the USSR as the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. So Ukraine gained statehood, although limited.

Ukraine was an agricultural country. To ensure its development in 1918 at the suggestion of Vladimir Lenin six Russian industrial regions including Donetsk and Lugansk which had never been part of Ukraine were transferred to Ukraine. In 1939 Galicia (Western Ukraine) was annexed to Ukraine, previously part of Poland. The current territory of Ukraine is the result of its entry into the USSR. It consists of disparate pieces: from Galicia (Lviv) with a strong influence of Catholicism to Eastern Ukraine, which strongly gravitates towards Russia.

Socialist Ukraine developed powerfully. Aircraft and rocket building, petrochemistry, electric power industry (4 nuclear power plants) and defense industries were added to the extraction of metal and coal. As part of the USSR Ukraine received not only the bulk of its current territory, but economic potential making it 10th largest economy in Europe. Ukrainian politicians were dominant in the Soviet leadership. N.Khrushev, L.Brezhnev, K.Tchernenko run the USSR from 1953 to 1983/

After the collapse of the USSR in December 1991, Ukraine became an independent state for the first time in its history. But this destroyed centuries-old economic integration with Russia. The “market” model led to the de-industrialization of Ukraine, to sharp drop in the standard of living of the population. On the basis of predatory privatization, an oligarchic class arose.

Now it is the poorest country in Europe. The level of corruption and social differentiation is of the world highest. The manufacturing industry except metallurgy, is practically destroyed. The economy rests on Western loans and money transfers from migrant labour who left for Europe and Russia in search of work. (about 10 million out of 45 million people), basically qualified specialists. The degradation of human capital has reached its limit. The country is on the verge of a national catastrophe.

The population of Ukraine is strongly dissatisfied. However this dissatisfaction with pro-Western authorities is manipulated in such a way that each time even more pro-Western forces win the elections. In February 2014, a US and NATO-backed state coup was carried out in Ukraine. The US State Department has publicly stated that it has invested $5 billion in its preparation.

Neo-Nazis came to power. These are, first of all, people from Western Ukraine (Galicia), which for centuries was under the rule of Poland and Austria-Hungary. Extremely nationalistic, anti-Semitic, anti-Polish, Russophobic and anti-Communist sentiments are historically strong there. After Hitler’s invasion of the USSR, German troops were greeted in Western Ukraine with flowers. SS divisions were formed there fought against the Red Army. Local nationalists, led by Hitler’s admirer Stephan Bandera, set about exterminating the Jewish population. In Ukraine about 1.5 million Jews were killed – one fourth of all Holocaust victims. During the “Volyn massacre” in 1944 about 100,000 Poles were brutally murdered in Western Ukraine. Banderas destroyed Soviet guerillas and burned alive the men, women and children in hundreds of villages in Belarus. Ukrainian nationalists who served as guards in German concentration camps became notorious for monstrous cruelty.

After the war from 1945 to 1953, US and UK-supported anti-Communist and anti-Soviet rebels in Western Ukraine unleashed terror against civilian population. During these years Banderas killed about 50 thousand civilians. This is the nature of forces – descendants and followers of fascists – which came to power after the 2014 coup. The traditions of anti-Polish, anti-Semitic and anti-Russian terror are very strong among the neo-Nazis who now really govern Ukraine. 42 opponents of Nazi were burnt alive in the Trade Unions building in Odessa on May, 2, 2014 /

It is an alliance of neo-Nazis with oligarchic capital. Banderas (like the SS stormtroopers in Germany) serve as a shock detachment of big business. The only difference is that Banderas refrain from outright anti-Semitism, having established a class unity with the local oligarchy. Banderas tightly control every move of state power, constantly blackmailing it with the threat of a coup. On the other hand, the policy of Ukraine is determined by the US Embassy in Kyiv.

The nature of the current Ukrainian state is an alliance of big capital and the state bureaucracy, relying on criminal and fascist elements under the full political and financial control of the United States.

After 2014 Nazi ideology is being implanted in Ukraine. Day of Victory over fascism on May 9 has been canceled. Ukrainian fascists – organizers and participants in the atrocities of the war – are officially recognized as national heroes. Every year torch marches are held in honor of fascist criminals. Streets and squares are named after them. The Communist Party of Ukraine operates underground. Intimidation and political assassinations of politicians and journalists became constant. Monuments to Lenin and everything related to the memory of life in the USSR are being destroyed.

At the same time an attempt began to forcibly assimilate the Russian population of Ukraine with the suppression of the Russian language. An attempt to introduce Afrikaans instead of English in South Africa led to the Soweto uprising in 1976. The same thing happened in Ukraine. An attempt to transfer school education from Russian into Ukrainian gave rise to powerful resistance in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. People took up arms. In May 2014 a referendum was held there, in which 87% of citizens voted for independence. This is how the Donetsk (DPR) and Lugansk people’s republics (LPR) arose. After several unsuccessful attempts to invade the LPR-DPR, the Nazis from Kyiv switched over to terror. During 8 years of shelling from large-caliber guns, more than 13 thousand civilians, including children, women and elderly people were killed in LPR-DPR. With the complete silence of the world community.

The Communists of Russia take an active part in the defense of the LPR-DPR. Hundreds of communists are fighting the Nazis as part of the troops of the people’s republics. Dozens of communists died in this struggle. In 8 years the CPRF sent 93 convoys with humanitarian aid to these republics with a total weight of 13,000 tons, received thousands of children for rest and treatment in Russia. All these years the CPRF headed by Gennady Zyuganov demanded from the leadership of Russia the recognition of the independence of Donbass.

In March 2015 at the initiative of Russia (with the participation of Germany and France) the Minsk agreements were concluded, which provided for the special status of the LPR-DPR within Ukraine. However, Ukraine evaded their implementation. With the support of the United States, Kyiv was preparing to crush the LPR-DPR by force of arms. The US, UK and other NATO members provided training for the Ukrainian army. They constructed over 30 major military installation in Ukraine including 15 Pentagon laboratories for the development of bacteriological weapons (cholera, the plague and other deadly diseases). Ukraine with its four nuclear power stations and huge scientific-technical potential is able to construct an A-bomb. This intention was publically declared. There was a danger of deployment of US cruise missiles. The situation in Ukraine increasingly threatened Russia’s security.

In December 2021 Russia proposed to the United States to talk about non-expansion of NATO. The US and NATO ignored the proposal. In January 2022 Russia warned that it would be forced to take additional measures to protect its security. At the same time it became known that Ukraine had concentrated 150,000 servicemen and Nazi battalions in Donbass. Kyiv, backed by the USA was preparing to regain control over Donbass through war this March.

On February 22 President Putin announced the recognition of the independence of the LPR-DPR. On February 25 the Russian Armed Forces operation of began.

Russia is not going to occupy Ukraine. The purpose of the operation is the liberation of Ukraine from the Nazis and its neutrality (refusal to join NATO). The tactics of the Russian troops is, while attacking military facilities, to minimize the casualties among civilian population and Ukrainian military, to avoid destruction of civilian infrastructure. They are brotherly people. We will continue to live together. However, the Bandera Nazis use the most disgusting tactics of the German fascists, using civilians and their houses as human shields. They install artillery and tanks in residential areas, forbid citizens to leave war zones, turning hundreds of thousands of people into hostages.

This nefarious Nazi tactic is not condemned in the West. It is the United States, waging an information war through the media controlled by them (only Russia Today resists), that are interested in the war. The United States strikes not only at Russia but also at Europe. The NATO war against Yugoslavia in 1999 was a means of destabilizing the European Union. Today the US main goal is to prevent Russian gas supplies via the Nord Stream-2 pipeline to force Europe to buy more expensive liquefied gas from the United States, thereby sharply weakening Germany and other EU countries. The volume of trade between Russia and the EU is 260 billion dollars a year. With the US – 23 billion USD . 10 times less. Therefore the sanctions imposed at the request of the United States hit, first of all, Europe. The events in Ukraine are yet another American war for control of the world.

By the way, the claims about global nature of boycott of Russia are false. BRICS countries (Brazil, India, China and South Africa) constituting 43% of the world population did not support sanctions. China is the 1st and India – 3d biggest economies of the world. Sanctions were not supported by Asia (excluding Japan and South Korea with their US military bases), by the Middle East, by the largest countries of Latin America and by the majority of the

For 30 years I have been one of the most active critics of the domestic and foreign policy of the Russian elite. In its class character, the oligarchic-bureaucratic power in Russia is not much different from the power in Ukraine (except without fascism and full US control). However, in those unfortunately rare cases when the leaders of Russia pursue a line that meets the historical interests of the country and the people, the principle of “automatic” criticism is hardly appropriate.

I have long argued that sanctions will have a beneficial effect on getting rid of Russia’s imposed dependence on the West in various areas of life. The Russian government is already taking the first steps in this direction. The task of the left forces is to vigorously encourage the authorities to change not only foreign policy, but also the socio-economic course, which does not correspond to the interests of the people.

Vyacheslav Tetekin,

Member of the CPRF CC

Doctor of Sciences in History,

Ex – Parliamentarian of the Russian State Duma (2011-2016)
>>

 No.454792

File: 1647380677469.png (1.47 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

Ukraine, Saudi Arabia and the hypocrisy of imperialism
>The Biden administration and the corporate media howl about alleged Russian atrocities in Ukraine while turning a blind eye to the mass executions and saturation bombing carried out by Saudi Arabia.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/15/pers-m15.html

WSWS has exposed the blatant and cruel hypocrisy and double standard of the West vis-a-vis human rights and war crimes. The rules applied by the West depend on who is perpetrating the gross violations. If it is Israel slaughtering Palestinians, Colombia violently suppressing widespread protests or Saudis, UAE and their mercenaries killing and starving millions of Yemenis, the Western elite and their controlled media are silent. Worse, their intelligence services and weapons contribute to the suffering of millions across the world. The Saudis may have chosen this timing to execute close to 100 of their citizens because they know they will get away with it. Currently they are being courted by the US to produce more oil to compensate for the loss of Russian share. Furthermore, since the Saudis financed ISIS to go after Iran's allies (Iraq, Syria and Lebanon), it will be no surprise if we learn later on they also financed the terrorists and mercenaries going to Ukraine, to buy the West silence regarding war crimes in Yemen and human rights abuses at home. This quid pro quo works for both, the West and the Saudis monarchy. Experience has shown the West has no friends or values, only interests, be they economic or strategic.To the US, one is a friend today, but disposable tomorrow when no longer needed. Saddam was armed and used against Iran during the horrible 8 year war. Later on he was pursued and executed on bogus charges. Noriega was a CIA asset, then he became a liability. He too was captured and jailed in US until his death.The puppet government in Afghanistan collaborated with NATO against its own people, but abruptly left to face the Taliban. Ukraine was also incited to adopt anti-Russian policies and now it is also abandoned to fight the Russians by itself. France, a NATO ally, was cheated out of a contract with Australia, by US and UK. When it comes to betrayal, the West is the top equal opportunity actor.

The West protects and drops its allies and stooges for the same reasons, But when it comes to Iran, Russia, China or Cuba or any targeted country by the West, the propaganda machine is unleashed with incessant barrage of fake news, fake witnesses and made up stories to demonize these countries. Sanctions are applied and threats of war crimes prosecution are issued.

Another example of the hypocrisy and double standards of the West are the repeated cries about the supposed oppression of the Uyghurs in China. However, in reality, It is the the US and its allies that invaded and killed millions of Muslims and turned their countries into failed states. It is the West that has imposed dictatorial regimes around the world that loot their respective countries and stash their ill-gotten wealth in Western countries. These corrupt regimes commit severe human rights abuses, including torture and disappearances.

Moreover, we heard the loud protests and denunciation of Russia regarding Alexi Nalvany, agent of the West for regime change in Russia. But not a word defending Assange, Snowden, or bringing to justice the perpetrators of the gruesome murder and decapitation of Jamal Khashoggi, the US-based journalist.

If there is any doubt, just look at the reception the Ukrainian refugees are receiving in Europe versus the Muslim civilians escaping wars in their countries instigated by the West. The racism and double standards are obvious.

Thus it is predictable the Western media remains silent about the massacre of citizens in Saudi Arabia. It is a major oil producer with huge investments in the West. Interests trump human rights in the West. By contrast, the denunciation of Russia as targeting civilians by design and committing other human rights abuse is currently the prevalent story in the West.

Based on historical facts, the West has credibility when it comes to human rights and war crimes. The West itself has committed, and supported those who are guilty of, war crimes and human rights violation at home and abroad. For the Western media, to gain trustworthiness, they must cover the news and events with integrity and truth using the same intensity and frequency regardless who committed war crimes or human rights abuses. However, we know these news outlets are capitalist themselves, for profits. They derive their income and legitimacy by supporting the 'system'. They are compromised by their very nature and class interest. Thus we do expect the media in the West to be neutral or truthful or supporting of the working class.

Capitalism does not value human life unless it is producing profits. Workers are commodities used and disposed of when necessary, across the globe. Violations of human rights and war crimes are repressive tactics to subjugate the working class and maintain its exploitation by the capitalist class. The corrupt media are instruments of domination and indoctrination to divide and alienate the working class.
>>

 No.454793

Blumenthal and Mate did an interview with form defense advisor Macgregor, interesting stuff.
>>

 No.454794

>>454792
Stop spamming here you faggot go to the news thread
>>

 No.454795

ROC
ROK
"Israel"
get ready
>>

 No.454796

>>454795
ROK can probably be spared if people like Moon can manage to avoid getting GLOWED.
>>

 No.454803

Just came back from .ogre's Ukraine thread and wow… this war has caused them to become unhinged from reality.
They either play up some really minor negative press about Ukraine, declare the entirety of Ukraine Nazi dictatorship, or just completely ignore the subject.

It's like watching a bunch of catty bitches have a meltdown at the same time.
>>

 No.454804

File: 1647470877703.png (257.48 KB, 1132x848, Screenshot_2022-03-16 Bann….png)

>>454803
peep my ban
>>

 No.454808

File: 1647492477390.jpg (109.13 KB, 864x1024, lefty-pol.jpg)

>>

 No.454810

>>454803
gtfo nazi
>>

 No.454811

>>454804
imagine siding with reddit
>>

 No.454812

>>

 No.454813

>>454811
Imagine thinking this is an argument.
>>

 No.454818

>>454813
I guess technically not but defending Ukraine isn't really reasonable either tbf.
>>

 No.454819

>>454818
Pointing out the incompetence of Russia isn't defending Ukraine.
>>

 No.454821

>>454819
I guess that's true enough.
>>

 No.454823

>Adviser to Zelensky, Mykhailo Podoliak: We want to develop a concrete mechanism that will guarantee our security in the future.
>"We know that Putin can only be stopped by force.
Negotiations are ongoing for a new security coalition.
>This was one of the key topics of the meeting with the PM of Poland, Czech Republic & Slovakia;
>"We want to make sure that we are not left alone on the battlefield again"
>NATO does not have such strength.
>In our opinion, this is an organization whose activity is mainly to organize summits at which the generals show that they are cool"
They're going to be making a second even more anti-russian NATO with poland
>>

 No.454825

>>454813
yes it is. and where's yours btw?
>>

 No.454826

>>454819
>incompetence
such as? yeah, maybe putin should give the entire command of the armed forces to you, grand marshal.
>>

 No.454827

If Putin really wanted to fuck over the west he should have just opened the archive and published everything about Stalin, personally delivering copies to Grover Furr.
>>

 No.454828

File: 1647619091815.jpg (7.59 KB, 269x188, 878g87.jpg)

>>454826
>Comrade bunkerchan take my army
>>

 No.454832

File: 1647631108989.png (680.96 KB, 836x703, ClipboardImage.png)

https://archive.is/DoB6K
probably glowie bullshit but Xi is supposedly mad at putin for fucking up his plans
>>

 No.454833

>>454832
The certs for this archive are broken.
>>

 No.454835

>>454832
Bellingcat is indeed glowie bs, reminder that the were some of the most vehement pushers of the assad gassing civilians lie.

The analysis is also suspect, since China can only benefit from Russia drawing attention from Am*rica elsewhere.
>>

 No.454836

>>454826
>No air superiority
>No comms for some reason (paper orders have been captured)
>Using WWII dive bomb tactics because you have no GPS
>Getting nailed with MANPADS because you have to fly low to drop bombs.
>Readiness hollowed out due to coruption, abondoned tanks filled with expired rations, muntions from the 80's and reactive armor filled with cardboard.
>>

 No.454837

>>454836
Ukraine would be annihilated with out the US sorry.
>>

 No.454839

File: 1647659891027.png (675.01 KB, 1280x544, ClipboardImage.png)

kek at least the memes are good
>>

 No.454841

>>454839
I remember seeing the putin monkey meme 5 years ago. it was just one of those obscure chan things, funny how it's being spammed everywhere now
>>

 No.454842

>>454841
Zalensky needs to be shipped to be holding a bottle of Soylent.
>>

 No.454844

>>454832
doesn't even make sense grammatically
>>

 No.454845

>>454836
keep dreaming
>>

 No.454846

>>454826
Not that guy, but the footage I've seen released by Russian troops makes it seem their materiel is woefully outdated. I won't fault them on not using their new MBTs, that's the right call considering the circumstances, but the gunships are 30 years old and were outmoded in the first Chechen war for fucks sake.
Also, the comm hijacking is beyond embarrassing. Really does not reflect well.
>>

 No.454847

File: 1647803266793.jpg (122.87 KB, 1280x960, 1647803163043.jpg)

The vaccine makes you more compliant and less able to think critically. They don't want any dissent
>>

 No.454848

File: 1647808474570.png (1.2 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

Zelensky appeals to Germany’s militaristic traditions
>The Ukraine war serves as a welcome occasion for Germany’s ruling class to realise long-term ambitions for military rearmament.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/19/mcbb-m19.html

Zelensky, a former comedian, now a US/NATO puppet, is turned into a rock-star, an international celebrity. In fact, some are now even proposing him as Nobel Peace recipient. His performances appear to have been choreographed in Hollywood. He is definitely stage-managed. However, behind the curtain, there is a sober reality. After the American financed coup in 2014, for all intents and purposes, the American intervention, with NATO complicity, can be called a 'soft' invasion and take over of the Ukrainian 'government'. Since then critical decisions, especially of war and peace, are made by foreign interests for Ukraine. Speeches and steps are dictated by the US. One can safely say Ukraine has been occupied since 2014. Many Russians actually believe Ukraine is being liberated, especially in the case of Crimea and Donbass.

Germany is a defeated power in WW1 and WW2. Like Japan and South Korea, it is also literally occupied by 1000s of American troops. Their constitution has been written by the US. Many geo-strategic decisions are imposed by the US on Germany. For instance, the NS2 project was killed by the Americans, not the Germans. The entire Europe and the Anglo-Saxon territories (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc,,,) are stooges of the US, sacrificing their own interests on behalf of the US imperialism.

From a Marxist perspective, the Western ruling class led by the US has designs to subjugate Russia, then China, to extend its domination over the working class globally. The goal is pillage of natural resources and profit. In this specific context, the workers. as a social class, be they Ukrainian, American, German, Russian or any do not benefit from these recurring inter-capitalist conflicts. In fact, the working class has been the victim of capitalism since its inception. For this reason, it needs to unite worldwide and save humanity from nuclear catastrophe.
>>

 No.454849

>>454847
What is the actual sources for this. I don't see one.
>>

 No.454852

>>454846
>the gunships are 30 years old
and?
>the comm hijacking
you realize nato electrowarfare is engaged right?
>>

 No.454853

>>454847
>The vaccine makes you more compliant and less able to think critically.
bruh. being more compliant and less able to think critically makes you take the vaccine
>>

 No.454854

>>454853
This is a completely retarded take.
>>

 No.454855

File: 1647884202226.png (1.82 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

The Canadian Pacific lockout and UK ferry mass sackings: Ruling class ruthlessness in response to growing class struggle
>The ruling class is moving ever-more ferociously to impose austerity and suppress workers’ struggles in the name of the “national interest” and preparations for war with Russia.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/21/pers-m21.html

Excellent article on class struggles in capitalist societies across the globe in general and in the West in particular. Cases of workers strikes, mass-firings and betrayal by unions in Canada, UK, India, Spain and US highlights the internal crisis in these so called democracies. Capitalism is being challenged from within and abroad. The paragraph below illustrates the class antagonism and the brutality of the ruling class:

"Workers all over the world increasingly find themselves in a political struggle against a ruling class that has nothing to offer the population but an unending pandemic, low wages, unbearably long hours, austerity and war"

The internal repressive measures deployed against workers in each country and the imperialist aggression abroad to subjugate even more workers in distant lands show the international character of the struggle by the working class globally.

The ruling class has no issue pumping billions and billions into wars but refuses to provide adequate wages for workers to live on. It also no problem issuing trillions to Wall Street racketeers to enrich themselves in speculative endeavors.

While the income of the ruling class keeps exponentially increasing, the wages of the working class remain stagnant yet the cost of living skyrocket with inflation, taxation and other schemes. The income inequality widens to obscene levels.

The war in Ukraine temporarily masks the intense and widespread internal struggles within capitalist societies. The deliberate and massive propaganda machine is misleading the world in proclaiming to defend democracy abroad, but remain silent or anti-workers at home.

The class struggle will intensify as the capitalist world order is being challenged amongst capitalists and by workers. This article mobilizes workers worldwide in their common struggle to unite and dispose of capitalism.
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 No.454858

>>454847
You got it backwards.
>>454853
You got it right.
>>454854
You are a liberal.
>>

 No.454859

>>454847
The Conservative makes you less able to reason.
There is no further implication or evidence. Reality shall provide.
>>

 No.454862

File: 1647914501976.png (206.2 KB, 1194x346, tumblr_ppejc8MT5R1qz8z2ro1….png)

>>454858
Remember when liberal actually ment something.
>>

 No.454863

>>454862
It still means a lot of things, lib.
>>

 No.454865

>>454863
Getting the vaccine doesn't make you a lib.
Boycotting commodities on the market makes you a liberal.
>>

 No.454866

>>454845
Those have all been corroborated with video footage, cope.
>>

 No.454871

>>454865
No, but heckling other people for refusing it makes you a lib, lib.
>>

 No.454872

>>454871
No it doesn't retard.
Accepting scientific fact doesn't make you a lib lib. Get your shots you fucking morons.
>>

 No.454873

>>454872
the liberal goes mask off
>>

 No.454874

>>454873
That doesn't make me a liberal dumb ass.
Explain how.
>>

 No.454876

>>454866
you're fucking stupid, you went beyond "war is a spectacle", for you the spectacle is the war.
>>

 No.454877

>>454874
indeed it makes you a nazi.
>>454866
you still saying "cope" even when yor nazi ass will get hanged.
>>

 No.454878

>>454872
tell me how a vaccine is made and how it works
>>

 No.454879

>>454876
No, you don't understand. Bullshit is NEVER supposed to happen in war or IN GENERAL. And if you take ANY losses you LOSE. And my subjective impression that I get from seeing some VIDEOS on the internet accounts for EVERYTHING that happens in the world. I know this because I never leave my room.
>>454872
A fact is a fact, "scientific facts" doesn't mean anything, it's not english or any other language. Can only mean you're running a scam for stupid people.
>>

 No.454880

>>454877
Lmfao "you should get the vaccine because it's better for you and for others."

"NOO NOO YOU'RE A NAZI REEEE NOO!"

What an absolute clown, haha.
>>

 No.454881

>>454879
Peer review and deduction isn't a scam no matter how badly you want it to be you halfwit hack. You people will believe any retarded thing because you literally lack the autism score to think for yourselves. You're so enamored in your contrarianism that you will accept what ever piddle that gets shit out to you from who ever with out an ounce of criticism or fore thought.

Retard.
>>

 No.454882

>>454878
>If you aren't a literally nero-biologist you're wrong.

The vaccines introduce a small sample of dead cells of a particular virus that then builds our immune systems response time and strength to that virus you retards. That's why 1mill people are dead lmaom

But "ohh no reee oooo the numbers are inflated"

Absolute bullshit. It's like people who complain "more white people die than black people" you morons don't understand averages or even the most basic shit lol.
>>

 No.454885

File: 1648142799754.png (1.41 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

NATO meets to plot next stage in Ukraine proxy war
>This week’s NATO summit is a council of war to prepare for a massive intensification of the US-NATO campaign against Russia.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/24/pers-m24.html

The bellicose tone coming from US and their NATO allies, and the push for New world order shows that this thing goes far beyond Ukraine. In fact, as the WSWS staff have clearly pointed out they are using the Russian invasion which they have been provoking for years as a pretext to push an aggressive foreign policy approach against both Russia and China that could end-up into great power conflict under these conditions. At a time of heightened contradictions back home a possible war seems a sensible idea for the ruling classes for distracting the people. A building up of antiwar international movement would come as a response to these dangerous imperialist developments.
>>

 No.454887

>>454882
That's not how the pfizer shot works.
>>

 No.454888

>>454887
It basically is. The differences are so minute that it doesn't matter. It's the same basic principle even if it uses RNA. There's zero data to suggest that vaccines (specifically covid ones) do anything other than protect you and others around you.
>>

 No.454889

>>454888
>There's zero data to suggest that vaccines (specifically covid ones) do anything other than protect you and others around you.
There is, you simply chose to ignore it.
>>

 No.454890

>>454889
No there simply isn't.
You simply are looking for any justification for your incipient ideology and try and use anything you can do do so including the worst and most nebulous data imaginable.
>>

 No.454892

Man why aren’t people using this board when .org has such shit jannies?
>>

 No.454893

>>454892
They probably don't know about it, or, believe the org janny propoganda. People are using it, you zoomer faggots just require instant gratification.
>>

 No.454894

File: 1648230778674.png (1022.77 KB, 1280x719, ClipboardImage.png)

The NATO-Russia conflict threatens nuclear war
>On Thursday, the leaders of the Western powers met to plan out the unthinkable: A full-scale war between nuclear-armed states.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/25/pers-m25.html

This is indeed a tremendously scary development. Forget about the bloody fights between Sunnis and Shias, Al Qaeda wreckage and ISIS mayhem. The 'civilized world' is at it again using violence, on an unimaginable scale, to resolve their quarrels. The most violent terrorists, ie, imperialists, are in the West. Look at the history of colonial wars, WW1 and WW2 and the millions of lost lives. And they say Muslims are the most violent people? Not even close!

The capitalists have learned nothing from the devastating wars in Europe. The drive for looting and profits overrides all considerations, including the demise of humanity with nuclear weapons. With horror, I have read hundreds of comments by ordinary citizens on many platforms and listened to corporate mass media, it appears the indoctrination and mass propaganda have succeeded to garner support for war against Putin. He has been caricatured into the new Hitler. Sadly, the sheep is being led to the slaughter house mercilessly.

NATO is contemplating sending 'peacekeeping force' or staging a false flag operation to justify its intervention to save the Nazi formations they have been training, financing, arming and providing with intelligence and strategic advice. These thugs are their new ISIS in Europe which they will use in many other spots to destabilize.

The Chinese foreign minister made a trip to New Delhi perhaps to resolve their issue in preparation for WW3. Should Russia be attacked, China will intervene as it knows it is next on the chopping block. Then hell will break loose as a results of provocations and miscalculations.

Capitalism has been agonizing for decades as a result of its internal contradictions. From crisis to crisis, war to war, scheme to scheme it has been on life support. The incessant pillage of resources and accumulation of capital via exploitation of billions of workers have been its high crimes against the working class.

Capitalism has caused so many wars and misery of billions worldwide. Once more. it is putting humanity at risk of annihilation, like in 1962 Cuban missile crisis. Imperialism is about to commit the most heinous crime against humanity. The danger now there is no anti-war movement significant enough to stop the march toward nuclear war. It is urgently and critically important that at minimum this movement is mobilized. Better yet, the working class must unite worldwide and dispense of capitalism, the source of exploitation, wars and misery for all.
>>

 No.454895

>>454890
the lib ideologue calling others blinded by ideology lol
>>

 No.454896

>>454895
ITT: broken record.
>>

 No.454897

>>454893
People go where there are readers. Chan has many of the same issues as .org except for the banhammering, because there just aren't people to control. Too much anarchoid thought on Chan and anarchism is a completely failed view of human society for a variety of reasons.

Anyway Ukraine is a really important thing, and I wish some of the bits of actual news from the .org thread could be filtered through all the faggotry the mods have put in to steer the narrative. There's a lot going on here that tells us the stupid narrative of a "new Cold War" or "multipolarity" is a farce. For the past few years, radical politics has been playing up this multipolarity horseshit as some sort of global Boogaloo that's totally going to destroy the evul US Empire which is the source of all the bad people. Turns out, as anyone could have told you, the problem is way bigger than some out-of-date 1930s conception of geopolitics. Russia's actions in the war are in one sense exactly what they would have to do if you did believe they had a national interest, and on the other, it's becoming clear Putin and his government don't enjoy the kind of support they would like to have.
>>

 No.454898

>>454894
>NATO is contemplating sending 'peacekeeping force' or staging a false flag operation to justify its intervention to save the Nazi formations they have been training, financing, arming and providing with intelligence and strategic advice.
It's too late for that, most of the Nazi formations died or gave up when Russia cracked their stronghold in Mariupol. And it's not like the Russians lacked the ability vaporize NATO forces if they entered the Ukraine theater. Russians and Ukrainians still have a lot in common from the Soviet period, that's why the Russian military has restrained it's use of heavy weapons, but that does not apply to NATO forces.

>I have read hundreds of comments by ordinary citizens on many platforms

social media is being flooded with astroturfing and bots, and manipulated by biased algorithms, it does not reflect popular opinion. Many people on social media treat it as a game where they write stuff that gets them the most amount of internet points, it doesn't necessarily reflect their opinion. Even the people that click upvote and like may just show support for a culture war position, not actual support for war with Russia.
>and listened to corporate mass media, it appears the indoctrination and mass propaganda have succeeded to garner support for war against Putin. He has been caricatured into the new Hitler. Sadly, the sheep is being led to the slaughter house mercilessly.
They don't have consent for a war with Russia, their use of censorship proves it. This is not like the Afghanistan and Iraq war, they didn't bother censoring critics back then because they were able to manufacture consent.

>>454897
Multipolarity is happening, India just told the UK and US to fuck off, when they tried to bring them into alignment, the fact that India is able to hold it's neutral stance in this conflict proves it.
>>

 No.454899

>>454888
Why are you shilling for pfizer in a thread about the ukrainian conflict?

>>454865
Yes free markets where you can lose your job for not getting it. Retarded liberal argumentation.
>>

 No.454900

>>454897
What issues does Chan have besides the banhammering?

>>454899
Because all the idiocy revolving around the vaccine is wrong. Why else?

People like this are so annoying "noo noo you have to perfectly stay in topic" look out for the topic police, lol.
>>

 No.454904

>>454898
>Multipolarity is happening, India just told the UK and US to fuck off, when they tried to bring them into alignment, the fact that India is able to hold it's neutral stance in this conflict proves it.
Cope tankie, India didn't do any such thing and it's economy would collapse without the US. Russia is going to get 100% fucked by this invasion by sanctions along, not mentioning the long insurgency that's in front of them. You tankies have done lost your mind, Putin was fucking installed by Western intelligence but you're all riding his dick so hard it might fall off.
Putin is going to get disappeared here in the next year or two, along with most of you softie tankies in the west lol.
>>

 No.454905

File: 1648385409282.jpeg (604.81 KB, 1880x540, 15ABBBAF-DAAF-49A6-BEC6-6….jpeg)

.ogre has become so psychotic on the Ukraine question the retarded tankies are literally arguing the invasion actually isn’t an invasion because the US and Israel also used Orwellian propaganda to euphemistically justify their actions
This is how deranged and retarded tankoids are simping for the bourgeois government created by the anti-communists that destroyed their beloved USSR
>>

 No.454906

>>454905
lolol >The bombs are flying but some people still have utilities so it's not an invasion.
>>

 No.454907

>>454906
>>454904
>>454905
keep coping, nazi
>>

 No.454909

>>454907
Take your smooth brain back to org, faggot.
>>

 No.454910

File: 1648404972324.png (90.07 KB, 645x1197, C5E05DA0-EC3B-4900-A08F-6E….png)

>>454907
>If you won’t simp for my reactionary, anticommunist imperialist apprentice to the man that not only killed the USSR but also destroyed the socialist government in Russia (as well as having neo-nazis fighting under him anyway lmao) y-you a-are a Nazi
Tankies in 2022 really are retards on the level of QAnon faggots, huh?(USER WAS BANNED FOR SECTARIANISM)
>>

 No.454914

Why are supposed socialists defending zelensky or ukraine? Lenin wanted the ukranian WORKERS to have self-determination. Not the ruling class of a kleptocracy. If anyone thinks its morally justifiable to make a deal with the far right paramilitary forces, they should have supported making a deal with Putin. However bad you think Putin and Russia is, they aren't burning people alive. If zelensky or anyone in control of ukraine actually had the interest of the ukranian people in mind, they would have put themselves under the protection of Putin and not a band of nazi thugs.
>>

 No.454915

>>454914
Zelensky is tucked away in his bunker. He should go fight.
>>

 No.454916

>>454914
You don’t need to pick a side between the two fucking retard
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 No.454917

>>

 No.454927

>>454916
No, you do. This is one of the most significant events of the century. Unipolarity is broken and dedollarization is accelerating. This is the start of the end of the American empire.
>>

 No.454929

>>454927
No you don't. Just because us hegemony is failing doesn't mean you need to shill for the Russian federation.
Don't be retarded.
>>

 No.454931

>>454929
Russia is not an imperialist power (no meaningful export of capital) and is led by what is basically a bourgeois national liberation government. I shill for Russia because Russia is an objectively progressive force in the world right now.
>>

 No.454937

>>454927
How the hell is Russia struggling to take over the second poorest nation in Europe breaking unipolarity? If anything it's strengthing it because Russia revealed itself to be a lot weaker than everyone believed.
>>

 No.454938

>>454937
Because dospite the fact the us is the most powerful nation on earth they are doing nothing.
>>

 No.454939

>>454938
The US has united the world in sanctions against Russia. Maybe for LARPers like you the Rubble crashing is nothing but I don't think Babushkas fighting over sugar in supermarkets would agree.
NATO is expanding to Nordic states as well over this, but that's nothing even though this whole thing is supposedly over Ukraine joining NATO kek.
>>

 No.454940

>>454939
Dispite your smooth brain strawman I don't believe that the international financial system (and more) colluding against Russia and especially the Russian people is particularly good but I am not also dumb enough to shill for the Russian federation. Cope and seeth retard.
>>

 No.454941

>>454940
Do you even know what a strawman is homie? I posted nothing but facts, the sanctions aren't nothing and it remains to be seen if Russia will actually win. They're already moving the goalposts and saying they've won since Ukrkraine looks like it will agree to staying out of NATO, as if Russia wasn't trying to decapitate the Ukraine gov and take over the whole country.
>>

 No.454943

>>454942
No one here cares about Facebook stop spamming us you fucking faggot.
>>

 No.454948

File: 1648770983825.jpg (277.33 KB, 1280x960, 1648770946253.jpg)

Mexican Nazis have entered the conflict
>>

 No.454950

>>454948
Mexican WHAT?
>>

 No.454951

File: 1648779515152.jpg (3.14 KB, 134x81, 1648779508094.jpg)

>>

 No.454952

>>454951
These people understand Hitler would exterminate them correct?
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 No.454954

File: 1648912276035.png (998.75 KB, 8192x3131, Population-cartogram_World.png)

>>454939
>US has united the world in sanctions against Russia
>the world
>india and china refuse to sanction russia at all
>>

 No.454957

>>454954
I think this was using a reverse definition, and "the world" only included everybody that did what the US wanted them to do. Empire speak is convoluted that way.
>>

 No.454959

>>454954
>>454957
China was expected to resist the sanctions, and it's really not all the big of a deal if India doesn't stand up to them. But okay you go cope master general, you got India in the bag LMAO.
>>

 No.454964

File: 1648974230509.jpg (170.09 KB, 1000x643, 0fcd34ecdb1f3ad2b668711349….jpg)

>>

 No.454965

File: 1648975473393.jpg (Spoiler Image, 102.26 KB, 1713x1440, FOFo3TaagAEYvUa.jpg)

>>454959
>But okay you go cope master general, you got India in the bag LMAO
>>

 No.454966

I read on the anarchist library about "supporting ukraine even though nazis are fighting the same battle with us is the correct thing for anarchists to do!" Lenin, Stalin and even Trotsky were right to have these fools shot in the back of the head for their own good.
>>

 No.454969

>>454966
Post it lol
>>

 No.454978

>>454965
Now do a map of GDP.
>>

 No.454997

File: 1649126403701.mp4 (9.82 MB, 640x350, VID_20220404_223501_175.mp4)

Western media trying to blame Russia for the killing of civilians in Bucha. What possible reasons could the Russians have for killing random civies? It makes much more sense that these were reprisals by the Ukrainians for collaborating.
>>

 No.454999

>>454997
LMAO cope tankie
>>

 No.455000

>>454997
Isn’t the Russian army kinda renowned for war crimes.
>>

 No.455003

>>454999
Waste of trips
>>

 No.455004

File: 1649143922417.jpg (197.22 KB, 1024x893, armbands.jpg)

>>454997
Yeah this story doesn't add up, it looks like the Ukrainian forces killed other Ukrainians who helped distributing Russian food aid, at least that is what the white armbands on all the dead bodies suggests.

>>455000
The Russian military is known for favoring artillery, but in this war they did not use it that much. I do know the mainstream media is renowned for making shit up tho.
>>

 No.455010

>>455004
You got a huge, undisciplined, scare, hungry invading force, it makes more sense that Russians shot those civilians. There’s not broad support for the Russian invasion among Ukrainians so no, a few friendly fire incidents doesn’t prove that this was Ukrainian forces.
The Russian military has already killed thousands of civilians and they’ve been going more scorched earth as time goes on.
>>

 No.455012

File: 1649194047917.png (368.88 KB, 594x666, 1649076633856-1.png)

>>455010
You are giving me the eastern hordes argument, as motivation for the alleged deed. That's the old propaganda pattern from the cold war. And it's not convincing, because it doesn't make sense to slaughter civilians on the way out.

It's very likely that the Russian military has committed atrocities, because that's what happens in wars, but this particular story doesn't ad up. Just before this happened the Ukrainians posted that they were clearing "saboteurs and Russian accomplices" that's the best explanation for this. All the other points of evidence fit this interpretation as well. The only data-point that contradicts it, is that satellite image with a date that indicates 2 week delay between the shooting and the discoveries of bodies. There doesn't seem to be a way to verify satellite photos, and there is a patterns of using satellite images in support for false claims.

I can't figure this out on my own, and i can't trust mainstream media they are terrible in general and in this war they just repeat everything the Ukrainians say uncritically , and so far i have not seen any confirmation from sources i can be absolutely sure they are out of reach of the US narrative control sphere.
>>

 No.455015

>>455012
>because it doesn't make sense to slaughter civilians on the way out.
It makes less sense that Ukraine forces would do it, since they’re risking their lives to defend these people.
Why would Ukraine forces shoot up 20 people to nail one Russia sympathizing aid worker.
>>

 No.455016

File: 1649227531322.jpeg (562.94 KB, 1034x3040, 9EAA8CE0-3DC9-4D83-A3D2-5….jpeg)

>>455012
This satellite image shows dead civilians in the street while the town was under Russian control.
>>

 No.455017

File: 1649229497831-0.jpg (177.89 KB, 917x789, return to bucha dangerous.jpg)

File: 1649229497831-1.mp4 (2.78 MB, 396x720, pole video.mp4)

File: 1649229497831-2.jpg (33.06 KB, 739x621, marxar.jpg)

>>455015
They told everybody they were going to after allegedly disguised Russian military, what if they just shot a bunch of people and then pinned it on the Russians.

And if you want to paint the Ukrainian forces as noble defenders, why did they tie a bunch people to poles, what was that about ?

>>455016
How do you verify that the date on that image was actually march 19 ?
If you go to the maxar website it says they have agreements with intelligence and defense agencies.
>>

 No.455019

>>455017
It says March 19 in the upper left corner.
>>

 No.455020

>>455012
>You are giving me the eastern hordes argument,
No I’m not, I’m giving you what military analyst have been saying about the Russian military since the end of the Cold War. You can read interviews of US soldiers talking about how dysfunctional and poor the Russian military is going all the way back to the 90’s and the Bosnia Herzegovina conflict.
>>

 No.455021

>>455019
>It says March 19 in the upper left corner.
Lol, i saw that, but how do i confirm that it is actually true ?
>>

 No.455023

File: 1649268283021.png (1.28 MB, 1206x1406, screen_twit.png)

>>

 No.455024

>>455023
>everyone is lying except my government
Good luck with that.
>>

 No.455025

>>

 No.455026

>>455021
Apparently there is a website that posted these in near real time, I don't know what the name of it is.
>>

 No.455027

Zelensky saying Ukraine will become like Israel wtf lol
>>

 No.455028

>>455026
>Apparently there is a website that posted these in near real time, I don't know what the name of it is.
at least you tried.

>>455027
There are a lot of Jews with Russian descent in Israel, that has an influence on the Israeli government, and they do not like Zelensky one bit, because he is working together with banderites who in WW2 sided with Hitler. And Zelensky is trying to pander to them.
>>

 No.455029

>>455027
>>455028
Even if that's the case I don't understand his logic. Israel is a settler colonial state, lol?
>>

 No.455030

>>455028
>at least you tried.
Keep pretending that Russia isn't the aggressor.
>>

 No.455031

>>455030
If Russia is the agressor why have they been trying to keep a buffer between the united states and Russia for decades and the US keeps violating their trust?
>>

 No.455032

>>455031
so because Russia has a grievance against the US, Russia attacks Ukraine… and not, well, the US, the one they have the grievance against…
>>

 No.455033

>>455032
It's not "just a grievance" it's literally a hostile actor planting it's foot nextdoor to you
>>

 No.455034

>>455033
the hostile actor in this case being the US? so then why attack Ukraine, which isn't the hostile actor?
>>

 No.455035

>>455034
Do you understand geography here?
>>

 No.455036

>>455035
So you're saying Russia is justified to invade Ukraine because US is a hostile actor against Russia, but Russia can't attack US because it's too far, so it's better to attack next door neighbor Ukraine which, well… isn't the hostile actor…
>>

 No.455037

🇩🇪 Olaf Scholz: "I believe that the period of globalization, when everything was very cheap, is coming to an end"

Brilliant thought! And a direct recognition that globalization is when rich countries live off the cheap resources of poor countries. In other words, neo-colonialism.

Now the bribes of the west will dry up and the working class will triple in size!
>>

 No.455038

>>455031
>defending reactionary states just because they resist muh imperialism
>>

 No.455039

>>455036
I'm not "saying" anything other than historical fact and that I can understand wanting to defend one's self against the expansion of NATO

>>455038

Go back to org with this smooth brain strawman
>>

 No.455040

>>455039
>I can understand wanting to defend one's self against the expansion of NATO
Ukraine is not in NATO. And invasion =/= "defense"
>>

 No.455041

>>455040
Why isn't it? Have you never heard of pre-emptive strategy before?

The US has been pushing Ukraine to join NATO for decades and they were about to right up until the conflict which is what the whole thing is about. That's just disingenuous, lol.
>>

 No.455042

>>455041
>Have you never heard of pre-emptive strategy before?
Like when Saddam's Iraq "pre-emptively" invaded Iran because Iran was "totally gonna invade us first, source trust me bro"? Or when Hitler's Germany "pre-emptively" invaded Poland because it was "totally persecuting ethnic Germans, source trust me bro"?
>>

 No.455044

>>455041
And in this case it's Putin's Russia "pre-emptively" invading Ukraine because Ukraine was "totally gonna join NATO and then invade Russia first, source trust me bro". Never mind that NATO has denied Ukraine membership for decades and repeatedly stated that it won't let Ukraine join NATO anytime soon (if ever) right up to the very months and weeks leading up to Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February 24th 2022.
>>

 No.455049

>another war crime
We are moving into the slow and ugly phase
>>

 No.455051

>>455044
No one said Ukraine was going to invade Russia you coping and seething faggot. Ukraine bordering Russia and being part of NATO is hostile towards Russia you fucking imperial simp.
>>

 No.455052

>>455042
It's not even close to the same thing because Russia actually has validity in their claims.

Do you think the US invading Iraq was justified?
>>

 No.455053

>>455051
>No one said Ukraine was going to invade Russia
So Ukraine was not a threat to Russia. So why the "pre-emptive" Russian invasion of Ukraine then?
>Ukraine bordering Russia and being part of NATO is hostile towards Russia you fucking imperial simp.
Ukraine is not a NATO member and NATO wasn't going to let Ukraine join anytime soon if ever. So it seems like you believe that Ukraine's mere national existence as a country bordering Russia is a "threat to Russia". Which, well, isn't the case. Ukraine existing as a separate nation on Russia's western border might be a "threat" to the Russian oligarchy's ability to project a "sphere of influence" beyond Russia's current borders, but it is not a threat to Russia proper, e.g. Russia's working class citizens who are exploited by these aforementioned Russian billionaire oligarchs (and many of whom have family in Ukraine who have been killed or displaced from their homes by Putin's reactionary war of aggression).
>>455052
>It's not even close to the same thing because Russia actually has validity in their claims.
You mean Russia's claims that:
>Ukraine was imminently going to join NATO
False
>Ukraine was hosting NATO missiles on the border with Russia
Also false. And neither of which justify a war of aggression (the supreme international crime), for which there are no valid "justifications".
>Do you think the US invading Iraq was justified?
No. Bush's pretexts of "Saddam hosting WMD's", along with the more laughable one of "Saddam hosting Al-Qaeda", for invading Iraq in 2003 were equally as nonsense as Putin's pretexts for invading Ukraine in 2022.
>>

 No.455054

File: 1649443922772.png (5.88 MB, 2560x2000, ClipboardImage.png)

>>455052
And speaking of Bush's invasion of Iraq and Putin's invasion of Ukraine, pretty interesting that Putin and Bush have actually been pretty close friends for quite some time. Hmm…
>>

 No.455055

File: 1649447344225.jpg (132.8 KB, 960x1280, 1649447318467.jpg)

Look at this dude
>>

 No.455056

>>455053
If you are so retarded you are unaware of the political climate leading up to the special military operation then I don't know how to help you.

Biden was having talks with Ukraine about joining NATO you are a blind sheep
>>

 No.455057

>>455053
Ukraine wasn't a threat but the United States is. Cope.


The US is a threat to Russia and definitely would like to see the Russia federation bulkanize. Once again "tankies" will be proven correct through history. Same as they were during the us and the Kurds.

See >>455056

I don't know what you are talking about with Ukraine hosting missiles. Are you skitzo? There has been talks. Sorry once again cope.


Really your pro is agit prop is so easily dismissed it's trivial.
>>

 No.455058

>>455056
>you are unaware of the political climate leading up to
Oh I am well aware of Putin's coveting of Ukraine's extensive natural gas reserves and agricultural lands as a strategic "prize" for the expansion of the economic power of Russia as a petro-state and, as a consequence, the enrichment of the private profits of the Russian billionaire oligarch class which backs Putin. As well as of Putin himself.
>the special military operation
I don't deal in euphemisms. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a war of aggression against the poorest country in Europe (Ukraine), which poses no threat to Russia.
>Biden was having talks with Ukraine about joining NATO
You mean the hour and a half long phone call between Biden and Zelenskiy where Biden vaguely told Zelenskiy that Ukraine joining NATO is "in Ukraine's hands" and "depends on Ukraine and NATO"? That's your "smoking gun" that Ukraine was going to imminently join NATO? Despite Ukraine being denied NATO membership for decades, NATO stating it had no intentions of offering Ukraine membership anytime soon (if ever) and also despite the fact that Biden's vague non-committal response on whether Ukraine could join NATO does not ensure Ukraine's future membership, since Ukraine could only join NATO if the member countries of that military alliance were to vote unanimously in favor.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/
>>455057
>Ukraine wasn't a threat but the United States is
Which again begs the question, why Russia attacks Ukraine which isn't a threat? Rather than attack the United States which is the threat? Could it be that Ukraine was seen as a "soft target" by the Russian military power structure? And an easily obtainable source of a potential future bonanza of resources and private profits, as is the case with most wars of aggression waged by capitalist states? Whereas attacking the USA, the actual threat to Russia, would be a suicidal maneuver on Putin's part that would inflict near incalculable damage to the Russian state in a conflict with an opponent that is vastly more powerful on an economic, logistical and conventional military level? Unless that war were to involve nuclear weapons, in which case both adversaries are on par with each other but strategic nuclear exchanges between the 2 most nuclear armed capitalist powers on Earth would cause their mutual destruction as well as the death of potentially billions of people worldwide and the return of human civilization to the Stone Age, if it were even to survive at all.
>The US is a threat to Russia and definitely would like to see the Russia federation bulkanize.
And the US being hostile to Russia justifies Russia invading Ukraine and slaughtering and displacing its population how?
>I don't know what you are talking about with Ukraine hosting missiles. Are you skitzo?
The Putin government in Russia put forward the false claim that NATO missiles were stationed on Russia's borders pointed at Russia as one of the pretexts justifying their eventual war of aggression against Ukraine.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/23/putin-accuses-west-coming-with-missiles-doorstep
>>

 No.455059

File: 1649454532971.png (861.71 KB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

>>455051
>you coping and seething faggot.
>>455057
>Cope.
>Sorry once again cope.
No need to on my end. Ukraine is putting up a fierce resistance to the invasion of their country and is currently defeating and repelling the Russian invader on the battlefield >>455023. In fact, this Ukrainian performance in defense of their lands has come to the complete surprise of not only Russian but also Western military analysts, who were both in the earliest stages making predictions of "Kyiv expected to fall in 96 hours".

Cope and sneed.
>>

 No.455060

>>455059
Are you a poltard just curious
>>

 No.455061

File: 1649457838577.jpg (129.39 KB, 1080x503, 1649431964570.jpg)

All these Azov atrociticies being blamed ob Russia, smh.
>>

 No.455062

>>455053
Lol, all the tankie copes about Ukraine are falling apart. This is a naked imperalist war and it's becoming impossible to deny.
>>

 No.455063

>>455062
Go back
>>

 No.455064

>>455063
Go back where? This is a board for materialists, not bootlicking foreign nationalists.
>>

 No.455066

>>455061
>All these Azov atrocities being blamed ob Russia
Well the Bucha narrative kinda fell apart. So it feels like they are trying to make something new stick.

Is there evidence for the new allegations about the train station ? We kinda have to evaluate each one of these without jumping to conclusions. The liberals have gone raving mad, but that doesn't mean Russia won't do terrible things in this war.

Is this the atrocity claim with the burned out rocket tube as evidence, the one that turned out to be a model that's being used by the Ukrainians but not the Russians, Or was that something else ?
>>

 No.455067

>>455064
War is bad: This isn't a board for US defending glow uyghurs,
>>

 No.455068

>>455066
>Is this the atrocity claim with the burned out rocket tube as evidence, the one that turned out to be a model that's being used by the Ukrainians but not the Russians
Yes
>>

 No.455069

>>455066
What rocket are you talking about, there's people laying in the street. Looks like old fanshioned gun fire to me. Damn you tankies are such complusive liars.
>>

 No.455070

>>455066
>Well the Bucha narrative kinda fell apart.
Lol no it didn't, all vatniks got to say is that some of them had white arm bands which means they were civilians so of course Russians would never shoot the cilivans they've bee shelling for a month.
That the timeline is off by a whole day, and that they don't look like they have rigor mortis so they're all actors that are just pretending lol.
>>

 No.455075

File: 1649653378285.jpg (183.27 KB, 976x549, 1649653244620.jpg)

BACK TO THE FRONT!
>>

 No.455076

File: 1649700743851.mp4 (2.13 MB, 720x406, 1649700686846.mp4)

White House looks absolutely terrified of tomorrow's inflation report. Guessing double digits
>>

 No.455077

>>455076
She, legit, sounds nervous
>>

 No.455084

File: 1649806311294.pdf (41.03 MB, 423x300, Ukrainian_Crimes_2017-2020.pdf)

Reminder no NATOshill will undo this fact
>>

 No.455085

>>455084
Nah bro it's all Russian lies
>>

 No.455086

>>455084
>Pretending that Putin isn't even more despotic.
>>

 No.455088

>>455086
>Playing a numbers game about who's less moral by your standards
>>

 No.455089

>>455088
Just saying that Ukraine being bad doesn’t justify the war. And I’m sure Azov has done bad things but much of what Ukraine has done is being exaggerated by Russia.
>>

 No.455090

>>455084
How is invading and killing thousands and displacing millions not an even worse crime?
>>

 No.455091

>>455089
What is Russia saying UK aine has done? That is irrelevant to me. I'm talking about the US using Ukraine as a NATO satellite
>>

 No.455093

File: 1649915869280.png (1.08 MB, 1024x894, ClipboardImage.png)

https://gowans.blog/2022/04/13/the-mental-illness-of-anachronist-radical-socialism/
>What many radical socialists practice today cannot be called scientific, or indeed, even coherent socialism.
>>

 No.455094

File: 1649924088396.png (182.79 KB, 449x478, ukraine pawn.png)

>>455089
>Just saying that Ukraine being bad doesn’t justify the war.
This war is mostly a contest between the US and Russia, Ukraine is the staging ground.
>And I’m sure Azov has done bad things
Azov's greatest crime was betraying Ukraine by climbing in bet with the CIA. Look at what they have done. They have provoked Russia on behalf of their US masters and as a result the US is leveraging Ukrainian blood and treasure against Russia. Look at the results, Ukraine is not prospering it's been turned into the sacrificial pawn.

>>455090
Violence begets more violence. We should point fingers at the people who start the spiral of violence.
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 No.455098

File: 1649970493127.png (479.45 KB, 1024x647, ClipboardImage.png)

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 No.455110

File: 1650138488256.png (648.89 KB, 1240x744, ClipboardImage.png)

Russia’s Moskva cruiser sinks following Ukrainian claim of missile strike
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/14/russia-moskva-cruiser-sunk-stormy-seas-defense-ministry
OH No No NO
PutinSistas…
>>

 No.455111

>>455110
It's all ogre…..
>>

 No.455117

>>455094
Do you think that makes you sound smart or something? This whole shitshow has shown that the U.S. would wipe the floor with the Russian army.
Everything has been downhill since Stalin, jesus christ.
>>

 No.455118

>>455117
thank you captain obvious
>>

 No.455119

>>455117
Hold your chauvinism.

The Russians tried "humanitarian war" and they kinda did kill fewer civilians and destroyed somewhat fewer buildings, but they also suffered more casualties. The strange thing about this war is that it looks like the Russians had many operational blunders but at the same time Russia's kill ratio is 7 to 1 , which also makes this the most efficient war operation ever. The Ukrainians used Volksturm(TM), even children and the elderly got sent to the front, that's probably what inflated their losses. We also have to keep in mind that Russia deployed a force that was 1/3 the size of Ukraine's military, and the ukranian military got utterly smashed. The Azov fascists that functioned as US proxy forces got decimated. The last 10 years of CIA investment has been wiped out.

If you compare it to US flavored "humanitarian war" the US did much better at preventing casualties in their own ranks, but they also killed more civilians and caused more destruction.

>This whole shitshow has shown that the U.S. would wipe the floor with the Russian army.

I don't think you can draw this conclusion. The US droned Afganistan to shit for 20 years and they still lost the war against goat herders with kalashnikovs. That was a much greater embarrassment.

Also a war between Russia and US would be a different kind of war, the Russians would not hold back heavy weapons. In the current conflict the Russians have demonstrated that their new supersonic weapons and very long range SAM are operational. Those are weapons the US can't counter without astronomic losses. The wiping would be mutual. The US military is much better funded but they spend a lot of their budget on weapons systems that are very cost inefficient for fighting. (mind you It was very efficient for lining the pockets of weapons capitalists)

What we can conclude from this war is the Russians still aren't very good at complex infantry tactics, but that doesn't take anything away from their ability to obliterate everything with massive firepower. They could have turned Ukraine into rubble and smoldering ash in mere days. I think it's good that they didn't because less destruction and death is better. We should not judge restraint as weakness, we don't want war to become a competition for total annihilation.

>Everything has been downhill since Stalin, jesus christ.

Stalin would have moved 3 thousand katyusha trucks around Kiev and made an ultimatum "Surrender or we'll make the katyushas sing". The Ukrainians would have declined, and after the music had stopped, 1/2 million people would be dead and who ever was left would have signed the unconditional surrender.
Stalin's methods were appropriate in his time, and every death that occurred at the hands of Soviet forces has to be morally attributed to the fascists and the capitalists that enabled them, but at the same time we don't want those times to return.
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 No.455128

File: 1650601404618.png (269.78 KB, 353x538, ClipboardImage.png)

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 No.455132

File: 1650665350519-0.jpg (76.67 KB, 853x512, IMG_20220422_180653_306.jpg)

File: 1650665350519-1.jpg (93.67 KB, 591x1280, IMG_20220422_180650_206.jpg)

Russia announced that the second phase of the operation has the goals of taking this territory. Leaving Ukraine landlocked
https://russian.rt.com/ussr/news/993838-specoperaciya-faza-ukraina
>>

 No.455134

>>455132
cuck ukraine
>>

 No.455143

File: 1650997056419.jpg (76.87 KB, 1024x563, 1650997052914.jpg)

Waiting for the liberal backtrack when ukraine turns into a full fledged ethnostate after the war.
>>

 No.455157

>>455143
When will ukraine suffocate?
>>

 No.455158

>>455119
Goode poste
>>

 No.455159

>>455111
Its finnished

>>455098
Anglo, fuck off
>>

 No.455173

File: 1651452326947.png (489.39 KB, 726x481, ClipboardImage.png)

>>

 No.455174

>>455173
Picking a side here is so stupid.
I'm on the side of the working class against the powerful imperialist and oligarchic aggression on capitalist plutocracies.
>>

 No.455176

File: 1651527362234.jpg (133.18 KB, 848x1280, 1651527276995.jpg)

Chomsky regretting handing the election to biden with his endorsement
>>

 No.455177

>>455176
>Chomsky
What a stupid ass rat.
>>

 No.455178

>>455177
He's smarter than some.retard on leftychan that's for sure.
>>

 No.455180

>>455178
Chomsky is senile.
>>

 No.455182

File: 1651540456658.png (1.17 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

>>

 No.455183

>>455182
A hit peace on Eva Bartlett ?
Taking a huge dump on field reporters ?

Why tho ?
>>

 No.455188

>>455183
Who's Eva bartlet? Never heard of her.
>>

 No.455209

>>

 No.455387

>>

 No.455395

File: 1654098476336.jpg (141.79 KB, 1075x1065, 1654085603748.jpg)

ukraine is part of the pride flag now
>>

 No.455396

>>455395
I don't understand this, what are they trying to tell us ?
Is Ukrainian now a sex thing ? because it's on the sex flag ?
Is the empire telling us that they intent to sacrifice so many Ukrainians that they will become a minority ?
>>

 No.455397

>>455395
Ukraine is really separating the wheat and chaff when KT comes to the Left
>>

 No.455522

>>

 No.455523

>>

 No.455528

>>455395
Blacks and browns are part too and I don't know why, like what did we even do. Heckin colored folx make up 90% of the world's population easy and have some of the most homophobic and racist people you can find
>>

 No.455529

Is there a way to se search LeftyPol?

Earlier this week I had a really good post asking for book recommendations on a scientific study of power and how it works with lots of technical stuff. I'd really like to see the repliesm
>>

 No.455530

>>455529
use you browser's history lmao
>>

 No.455598

File: 1657027082326.jpg (176.71 KB, 913x1024, z.jpg)

This thread is now Zigga territory.

Everyone is subject to Nazi tattoo checks.
NO EXCEPTIONS
>>

 No.455599

>>455598
Js a gommmunist tattoo ok?
>>

 No.455601

>>455598
Thank god Russia killed all those cilivians and drove them from their homes to fight the handful of Nazis in the gov, who knows what they could have done!
>>

 No.455603

>>

 No.455604

>>455395
I'm gay as fuck and this shit is just embarrassing.
>>

 No.455605

>>455601
>handful of nazis

they literally make up 20% of the standing army, kek.
Also, russia wouldn't have to invade if the US could stop being imperialistic.
>>

 No.455606

Fucking Ztards.
>>

 No.455607

>>455605
Lol okay Putin
>>

 No.455608

File: 1657093907321.jpg (129 KB, 1280x852, 1656880224597.jpg)

>>455599
Of course.
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 No.455609

File: 1657093979434.mp4 (3.42 MB, 960x540, 8 years.mp4)

>>455601
Seethe.
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 No.455624

File: 1657485864002.png (178.52 KB, 460x301, ClipboardImage.png)

The leader of the Greek Communist Party weighs in on what imperialism means, the ultimate cause of the war in Ukraine, and how communists ought to respond to the conflict.
https://gowans.blog/2022/07/09/the-last-true-communist/
>>

 No.455627

>>455609
>Thinking you can win in the age of assymetric warfare.
NATO is going to party like it's 1991.
>>

 No.455628

>>455609
>so delusional he thinks the Soviet Union is still alive
Meds
>>

 No.455629

>>455624
Gowans is interesting, I agree with most of his opinions, glad to have been introduced to his blog by this thread.
>>

 No.455630

>>

 No.455631

>>455624
Did that guy just try to redefine imperialism, so he can go for the muh-both-sides.
He tries to paint Russia and China as imperialist, they clearly aren't.
China is not capitalist either, it is not a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, he gets that wrong as well.

>>455629
I have read a number of his articles, and he's usually going for a right-deviation.
He is painting all powers in the geopolitical struggle as equivalent, sacrificing the theoretical basis of Marxism that views Imperialism as a system. It sort of gives the US a free pass for hegemonic stuff.

Way better sources for geopolitical analysis are:

https://multipolarista.com/

http://www.thegreyzone.com/
>>

 No.455632

File: 1657563788584.png (990.29 KB, 1062x597, ClipboardImage.png)

>>

 No.455633

>>455631
>China is not capitalist
You are either retarded or just willfully ignoring decades worth of history.
>>

 No.455634

File: 1657594875333.jpg (218.59 KB, 721x582, 1657239420280.jpg)

>>45563

It deppends on how you define capitalism and socialism. China still has planned economics and national control of industry which is considered socialism to some and it also has private industry as well which is still controlled by the state more or less.

If I am understanding what I have read correctly.
>>

 No.455635

>>

 No.455636

>>455631
>He is painting all powers in the geopolitical struggle as equivalent
All powers in the geopolitical struggle are capitalist.
>It sort of gives the US a free pass for hegemonic stuff
The US already has a free pass to do whatever it pleases it has power, whatever small band of communists, bohemians, critiquing US policy is worthless. So what the US does hegemonic stuff? it's not in my power or anyone's power to do anything about it.
>multipolarity
Yeah because World war 1 and 2 were so great for the working class, multipolar capitalist empires fighting for resources will continue to kill millions.
>>

 No.455637

>>455636
Not that they are equivalent geopolitically, gowans already pointed out that the US is much stronger than Russia and China.
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 No.455646

File: 1657754761183.png (420.93 KB, 740x478, ClipboardImage.png)

https://gowans.blog/2022/07/12/ukraine-communists-view-of-the-war-in-their-country-and-how-to-end-it/
Apart from expressing indignation at Kyiv's banning of Ukraine's communist parties, defenders of Russia's role in the war ought to listen to what Ukraine's communists have to say.
>>

 No.455694

>>455646
Wow, an actual paid shill. I've seen the same post, same picture same wording, on /leftypol/ and reddit.
>>

 No.455695

>>455694
Shut up tankie.
>>

 No.455697

>>455646
<Energy and food prices are increasing as a direct consequence of the war.
No it didn't this proxy war was started by the US in 2014 when they regime changed Ukraine with the help of fascist elements in Ukraine, and the food prices didn't change until the US basically sanctioned the hole world (even-though they said they would sanction Russia)

<Almost 50 million people have been pushed to the brink of starvation since the war began, as disruptions to grain supplies and soaring costs push food prices out of the reach of the poor.

The only grain supplies that were physically disrupted were the ones from Ukraine, but that didn't cause the food security issues, Ukraine's grain exports are not big enough that they could significantly impact world food prices. US sanctions blocked fertilizer (and energy to make fertilizer) from Russia and Belarus. Especially countries in the south depended on that for their agriculture.

>“The development of the military conflict in Ukraine has shown that its leading trend is its escalation into an open clash between the two imperialist blocs

>The UCU invokes the classical Marxist view of imperialism
Russia is not imperialist from a Marxist view, imperialism is the stage of capitalism, where industrial capital and bank capital has merged into finance capital that is seeking to impose it self on the world to export capital. Russia barely has any finance capital and is mostly just exporting commodities. Imperialism is a global system. Russia is in the semi periphery of that imperial system.

This war happened because the US as the imperial hegemon wanted to make Ukraine into a tool to impose it's will on Russia. Which makes Russia an anti-imperialist force.

You can blame the US for trying to expand their empire towards Russia and destroying the neutrality of countries between blocks, which was keeping the peace. You can blame the EU for cucking out to US foreign policy dictates. But you can't blame Russia for not lying down and die at the whims of the US.

Look at how communists are treated in the parts of Ukraine that are aligned with Russia, where the communist party is legal and communists hold positions in government vs the parts of Ukraine that are aligned with the west, where the communist party is banned and leftists are/were hunted by the azov gang. I'm wondering under how much duress Ukrainian communist are writing.

>>455694
>Wow, an actual paid shill.
It does kinda look very synthetic, while the article does give lip-service to anti-capitalism and name drops Lenin. The actual talking points are pretty close to the imperial line. The most suspicious part is that organic communists would not ignore the context of the war,like ignoring the Donbass-war that has been going on for the last 8 years. But i do wonder whether this line is coming from shills or if there is a strata for whom this is an expression of their interests.

>>455695
>tankie
historically this had a specific meaning, but now it is just a generic term for "communist"
>>

 No.455700

File: 1658952425689.jpg (56.41 KB, 828x793, 1658952416333.jpg)

copeplay: a mix of cosplay with cope. I now thought of it randomly, but if it catches on in 10 years, make sure to link to this post in the knowyourmeme article
>>

 No.455701

>>455700
There are some other examples, like tanks and trucks with imperial flags.
>>

 No.455702

File: 1658990503614.png (1.58 MB, 1263x702, ClipboardImage.png)

The Crumbling of Modern Russia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WigWXj9olbo
I can't believe it, a tankie that's not coping about Russia.
>>

 No.455703

>>455702
This video talks about the advantages of the Soviet system over the capitalist system.
It's pretty funny that you think this is cope, Russia is still winning the Ukraine proxy war.
>>

 No.455704

>>455703
>Proxy War
Lol, this was the same cope the US used during Vietnam. The Ukrainians don't want to be a Russian colony, they are fighting of their own accord, the US isn't prompting them to in anyway. Helping a country out doesn't make them a proxy. No one says that the US was a French proxy during the Independence War.
>>

 No.455705

>>455703
How can the Soviet system be better than anything when it collapsed from it's own contradictions.
>>

 No.455707

>>455704
Are you seriously denying that the war in Ukraine is a proxy war between the US and Russia ?
NATO shills everywhere

The US regime changed Ukraine in 2014
The US wanted to instrumentalize Ukraine as vassal-state to balkanize Russia.
The CIA runs the fascist wing of the Ukrainian military.
The US is financing the Ukrainian state that has financially defaulted.
The US is using it's leverage over Ukrainian political and military structures to use Ukrainian soldiers as sacrifice for some idiotic notion of wearing down the Russian military (who is just plowing them into the dirt with unending artillery-shelling and missile strikes)

The Azov Nazis are not the wholesome democratic liberation fighters, they wanted to ethnically cleanse the east of Ukraine. The people in the Donbass region have the right liberate them self from that.

>Helping a country out doesn't make them a proxy.

Helping ? the US is destroying Ukraine by making them ruin their neutrality and engage a superpower in a war they have zero chance at winning.

>>455705
>How can the Soviet system be better
Compare the live that people had in Russia in the 1980s with Russia in the 1990s.
The Soviet system was objectively better.

>when it collapsed from it's own contradictions.

The Soviet system collapsed because of internal and external contradictions, but that doesn't change the fact that people lived better lives.

Capitalism in Russia was a humanitarian catastrophe on a similar level as a world war. They had like 12 million excess deaths.
Russia has seen a slow recovery since the early 2000s when Putin reintroduced more state-control over industry. Russia's economy has moved away from neoliberalism to a sort of state-capitalism. That is a leftward move economically.

The Ukraine proxy war has the consequence that Russia is going to recreate the industrial autonomy that the Soviet Union had.
This benefits Russian workers because that will create a big demand for labor.
>>

 No.455708

>>455707
Never underestimate how insane and revisionist reddit fags can be about ukraine and Russia.
>>

 No.455709

>>455707
>Are you seriously denying that the war in Ukraine is a proxy war between the US and Russia?
Was the Soviet Union a proxy of the US in WWII because of Lend lease?
The only proxies are the Russian ones in Donbas. No one wants to be a ward of Russia, especially fucking Ukraine given their history. By labeling it a proxy war you tankies boorishly try to make it seem like all the resistance to Russian imperialism is a complete fabrication of NATO, it ain't my coping tankie.
You all pulled this purity spiral shit over Rojava and smear anyone one who even looks at the US as muh proxy.
Ukraine would have fought off the invasion whether the weapons came from China, North Korea or Argentina.
You dumb asses have doomed the Russian Federation to the same fate as Yugoslavia, fuck you you little arm chair generals.
>>

 No.455710

>>455707
>The US regime changed Ukraine in 2014
I guess you're going to pretend like Crimea never happened. Not going to defend the CIA but Russia was FAR more heavy handed in the installation of their own puppet. Russia be poor, and everyone wants to get with the West and get those sweet stimulus bucks. The popular support was behind not being poor, not your made up fantasy about Russia being USSR 2.0.
>Helping ? the US is destroying Ukraine
OMG, THE US IS INVADING UKRAINE!
Anon, you have the scoop of the century, why are you sitting on such info?!
>by making them ruin their neutrality
LMAO, oh right, it was the US making them fear a Russian invasion, not fucking Crimea, or Stalin starving them to death. Can't blame everything on the US tankie turd.
>The Soviet system was objectively better.
The Soviet system is what brought about the neoliberalism reforms. Unless there was some worker referendum I'm unprivy to.
>The Soviet system collapsed because of internal and external contradictions,
Lol, what external contradictions? The war in Afghanistan they started? The stagnating economy they ran? The neoliberal reforms they inacted? Hmmm it's almost like workers never actually owned the MoP in any meaningful way and the Politburo was booj in all but name. Except more retarded because at least the booj reinvest in more capital instead expanding bureaucracy.
>>

 No.455711

>>455708
>Never underestimate how insane and revisionist reddit fags can be about ukraine and Russia.
Yeah you can say that again.

>>455709
>Was the Soviet Union a proxy of the US in WWII because of Lend lease?
No because Lend-lease was tactically and strategically inconsequential, The Soviet industrial complex was not lacking in output to inflict a punishing defeat on the Nazis all by it self, it was predominantly a diplomatic gesture to solidify the Allied forces alliance.

>The only proxies are the Russian ones in Donbas.

You are fool the US governments has admitted that the CIA is handling the Azov nazis, they even admitted the 2014 regime change operation, the CIA was bragging on their website about their success for color-revolution in Ukraine, like it was a corporate advertisement for a service.

>No one wants to be a ward of Russia, especially fucking Ukraine given their history.

The people living in Donbass feared being ethnically cleansed by an Azov offensive, ever since the Bandera Nazis managed to get enough political power to ban the Russian speaking minority in eastern Ukraine from speaking Russian. They split Ukraine, and the 8 years of civil war in the Donbass region that killed 10-20 thousand people made this split permanent. The Russians are not to blame for that. The US was helping the Bandera people, because they wanted them as an attack-dog against the Ukrainian political current that wanted to remain neutral towards the West and Russia.

>By labeling it a proxy war you [sectarian-idpol] boorishly try to make it seem like all the resistance to Russian imperialism is a complete fabrication of NATO

I'm calling it a proxy war because it is a proxy war, it's blatantly obvious that the US is arming and funding the Ukraine as a proxy force against Russia, even if you live in the mainstream media disinformation bubble, you should be able to see this.
Russia is not imperialist by the Marxist definition of imperialism. This proxy war between Russia and the US that is being waged in Ukraine and for them this is a security competition. The US using Ukraine with the goal of balkanizing Russia that is imperialism. Russian capitalism is about exporting resources , it is not in the imperial stage. And the US is clearly the imperial hedgemeon of the world, trying to destroy a rival power that will not comply with US demands.

>You all pulled this purity spiral shit over Rojava and smear anyone one who even looks at the US as muh proxy.

For the record I didn't think of Rojava as an US proxy, i only thought that it was foolish of Rojava to ally with the US. And i was proven correct because in the end the US abandoned Rojava and last time i checked they were allied with Assad as a semi-autonomous region of Syria against Turkey.

>Ukraine would have fought off the invasion whether the weapons came from China, North Korea or Argentina.

The proxy war has been raging since 2014, what Russia did in Feb this year was an escalation. If you call it an invasion you make it sound like all this shit began this year. And that's historic amnesia, that makes you sound like a liberal.
The fact is the the Ukrainians voted for Zelensky because he promised to end the Donbass civil-war and implement the Minsk agreement.
This would have given the Donbass political autonomy as part of Ukraine. Keeping the Ukrainian territory intact (with the exception of Crimea) and effectively ensure Ukraine would never become part of NATO. If the Ukrainian government had been able to do what it was elected to do, then this war would have long been over. But ever since the US regime-changed Ukraine, to make it their vassal-regime, that didn't happen. This was not an inevitable conflict, the US chose to stir up this shit.

>You dumb asses have doomed the Russian Federation

Lol what ?
You think people on leftypol run the Russian government ?
Is this Russia-gate derangement-syndrome ?
>>

 No.455712

>>455710
>I guess you're going to pretend like Crimea never happened.
Crimea had a referendum to join Russia, and international observers consider it legitimate and democratic.
Russia orchestrated all of this, but it was not against the will of the People living in Crimea.

>The Soviet system is what brought about the neoliberalism reforms.

No it didn't.
The Soviet system fell apart because of internal flaws and external pressure.
But the neo-liberal ideological injection came from The US. During the Yeltsin period, Chicago-school Neo-liberal economic hitmen and advisors were crawling all over Moscow, nudging the system towards the shock-doctrine massacre that came in the 90s.
You can blame the Soviet system for being weak enough to not assassinate these ghouls before they could unleash their economic terror, but you can't blame the ideological content on the Soviet system, they did not invent this shit.

>what external contradictions?

cold war arms race
trade embargo

>The stagnating economy they ran?

The funny thing is that during the period of great stagnation the Soviet economy grew by 3-5%/year with very low levels of debt.
It was stagnation compared to Stalin era 14 % growth rate, but in the west today we would call 3-5% economic growth an exceptionally strong performing economy.

>Hmmm it's almost like workers never actually owned the MoP in any meaningful way and the Politburo was booj in all but name.

It is true that the technical intelligentsia and the managerial strata of the late soviet period betrayed the working class because they thought they would be better off in a capitalist system. And it was the fault of the Soviet system to not produce a political force to prevent it. This is the main reason why cybernetic socialism now advocates for Athenian democracy instead of a party system. In that system the odds of such a betrayal would be statistically negligible. Neo-liberal infiltration could be ruled out, since the positions of power and decision-making are randomly selected. All you have to do is defend the random draw mechanism. Lotteries manage to do this. So that's not so hard.

>the booj reinvest in more capital instead expanding bureaucracy.

No capitalists do not like to invest capital into real production. When the Neo-liberal system came and capital was freed from constraints, they invested their capital in militarism and financial pyramid-schemes. The Soviets invested more into production in comparison.
The bureaucracy criticism of the Soviet Union is invalid now because corporations have more bureaucratic layers then the soviet union. The booj never hated bureaucracy, they just wanted privatized bureaucracy.
>>

 No.455713

Kinda sad being this much of putin statist keyboard warrior.
>>

 No.455714

File: 1659058228275.png (191.34 KB, 500x333, benis.png)

>>455711
>No because Lend-lease was tactically and strategically inconsequential
Is that why the Soviets were losing all the way up until they got bailed out by the US?
>Soviet industrial complex was not lacking in output to inflict a punishing defeat on the Nazis all by it self
Like hell it wasn't, which is why the US intervened. Not to save the Soviets, but to keep the Anglo colonies in East Asia from breaking away from the UK and France.
>You are fool the US governments has admitted that the CIA is handling the Azov nazis,
Really the US Army but yeah I'm perfectly aware of that. But peripheral fash presence in the government doesn't justify an invasion that killed thousands of civilians and made millions homeless.
This doesn't even touch on the kidnapping that the Russians are doing.
>inb4 NATO lies
Cope.
>he CIA was bragging on their website about their success for color-revolution in Ukraine,
Proofs, I seriously doubt they worded it that way. More likely that framed it as undoing Putin's color revolution, which is what he did in Belarus.
>The people living in Donbass feared being ethnically cleansed by an Azov offensive,
And yet nothing coming close to an ethnic cleansing happened. Again more exaggerated claims to justify your borked invasion.
>They split Ukraine, and the 8 years of civil war in the Donbass region that killed 10-20 thousand people made this split permanent. The Russians are not to blame for that.
Oh puh-leze, Russia took Dombass and papered over it with the handful of separatists they could find. That was 100% Russia's doing.
>it's blatantly obvious that the US is arming and funding the Ukraine as a proxy force against Russia,
Yeah they're arming them, doesn't make them an out an out proxy. A real proxy force would be something that politically wouldn't stand up on it's own. Something like the US' south Vietnamese government, there would have been resistance to Russia's aggression. The Ukrainian gov taking US aid doesn't make them a US proxy, just a convenient ally. The whole proxy meme is a right wing talking point.
>Russia is not imperialist by the Marxist definition of imperialism.
Russia invaded Ukraine to keep the newly discovered oil from being sold to Western Europe and making the Euro Zone independent of Russian petro. I guess maybe they're colonists then, idk, they sure as fuck aren't liberators, or even doing this out of some security necessity lol.
>This proxy war between Russia and the US that is being waged in Ukraine and for them this is a security competition.
>Ukraine really wanted to join Russia but the mean old US is stopping them.
The only people falling for this talking point are Russians, tankies and your buds on Incel Slava Z. No one else.
Gotta go but I'll be back to crush more of your tankie delusions.
>>

 No.455715

>>455714
>Incel Slava Z
lol
>>

 No.455717

>>455711
Why does your retarded ass need to take a side in this conflict instead of looking at the capitalist relations that caused it? Supporting Russia, Ukraine, or the US wont lead to the destruction of capitalism, so I just viewed all this shit as another Israel vs Palestine and ignored it.
>>

 No.455718

Russia is imperialist, I don't care what your delusional statist tankie ass says about it.
>>

 No.455719

>>455718
>opinion
but where is the defense of your thesus?
>>

 No.455720

File: 1659075009439.jpg (169.53 KB, 1022x779, tv4q40i3m5e91.jpg)

lel wtf is this?
>>

 No.455721

>>455717
Why do pseuds like you always concern troll by pretending there's no such thing as degree. Eating half a shit sandwich is objectively better than eating a whole one.
Russia is in it's death throes but there's no reason Ukraine needs to go down with it.
>>

 No.455722

>>455719
What is your definition of imperialism? I am not even calling for an end to war, or peace, I am just in despair at continued Russian imperialism.
>>455721
Why would I support Ukraine or Russia? it is just another Palestine vs Israel waste of time, if Russia wasn't the oppressor of Ukraine then Ukraine would be the oppressor, same with Israel and Palestine. I react the same way when people mention US/NATIO imperialism, so what, and why should leftists take sides in these geo-politics. I am for the destruction of capitalism, not the US, or western imperialism.
>>

 No.455723

>>455712
>Crimea had a referendum to join Russia,
The referrendum was held with Russian boots on the ground in Crimea. Regardless a part of a country doesn't get to vote itself out like that.
>and international observers consider it legitimate and democratic.
AHAHAHAHAHHA
You tankies cannot survive in the internet age because it's so easy to debunk your lies.
>>

 No.455724

>>455714
>Lend lease
Lend lease was a show of good faith by the US towards their WW2 ally, but it was negligible for the war effort. The Soviet Union was responsible for 80% of the Nazi losses, and with that an honest historic account of WW2 would be to say the Soviet Union defeated Hitler and the US,UK,France and others helped a little. Another thing is that the US entered relatively late in the War and one of their motivation was that they feared that the Soviet Union was going to control all of Europe, if they didn't join in smashing Hitler. And the reason why lend-lease is played up so much is to compensate for the US's late entry in the battle. The Soviets welcomed the help of the rest of the allied forces, but it could have crushed Fascism on it's own. It's also a little bit of a cope for the fact that in WW2 the US played second fidel.

>Really the US Army but yeah I'm perfectly aware of that. But peripheral fash presence in the government doesn't justify an invasion that killed thousands of civilians and made millions homeless.

The US should not have trained and armed a proxy force in Ukraine, that forced the Russians to go in, the fact that they were fascists just makes it worse. The US initiated the Ukraine proxy war, they are to blame for all the casualties. If you blame the Russians you are in effect granting the US the right to fund, arm and train armed proxy forces in other countries. That normative order is not acceptable.

>And yet nothing coming close to an ethnic cleansing happened

You could say the Russians intervened before it could happen.

>Oh puh-leze, Russia took Dombass and papered over it with the handful of separatists they could find.

The US created the Donbass "seperatists" by installing a Government in Kiev that made discriminatory laws. The Donbass region population sides with Russia because, the rest of Ukraine told them they were second class citizens, that spoke the wrong language. Russia told them they could have their autonomous regions that they mostly govern them self, and apply for membership in the Russian Federation to become equal citizens. Russia made a better offer, and the Azov goons reacted to that by shooting mortar grenades into residential Areas.

>Yeah they're arming them, doesn't make them an out an out proxy.

The Us overthrew the Ukrainian government and they started integrating the Ukrainian military into NATO via the Bandera Azov axis. Of course that's a proxy force. Big NATO shill energy denying material reality that blatantly

>The whole proxy meme is a right wing talking point.

It's the anti-imperialist view, left-right bourgeois political directions have nothing to do with this.

>Russia invaded Ukraine to keep the newly discovered oil

This is not a resource war, Russia has so much natural resources and so many global customers that want to buy those resources that it makes no sense for them to invade Ukraine for that. It's is doubtful that the profits from those resources would even be enough to cover the military costs. It's a security competition.
>>

 No.455725

>>455717
>Why does your retarded ass need to take a side in this conflict instead of looking at the capitalist relations that caused it?
<Telling the truth is taken a side
kek
The capitalist relations are that the national bourgeois in Russia does not want to play a subordinate role to the imperial bourgeoisie in the US.
National bourgeois resistance to imperial capital, is not a bad thing.

>Supporting Russia, Ukraine, or the US wont lead to the destruction of capitalism, so I just viewed all this shit as another Israel vs Palestine and ignored it.

<I'm an arrogant god living a in a sky castle and the squabbles of mortals don't interest me.
You are however correct that the Ukrainian-US vassal regime in Kiev wanted to crush the Donbass like Israel crushes Palestine.
>>

 No.455726

>>455718
Russia is not imperialist by Marxist standards.
And Sectarian slurs are not valid arguments.
>>455723
>The referrendum was held with Russian boots on the ground in Crimea.
A small contingent of light troops is not enough to dispute the results, international observers did not report electoral tampering or intimidation efforts, so it's probably legit.
>Regardless a part of a country doesn't get to vote itself out like that.
Usually this is correct, when people try to do that they usually get crushed, but in this case Russia wanted that warm-water port in Sevastopol, giving them a motivation to enforce the result of the referendum.
>>

 No.455728

>>455726
>A small contingent of light troops is not enough to dispute the results,
>Imagine believing it was small, imagine believing it not indicative of great covert and economic coercion.
>>

 No.455729

File: 1659211419745.png (2.49 MB, 1920x1080, mfwiseeatankie.png)

>>455724
>Lend lease was a show of good faith by the US towards their WW2 ally, but it was negligible for the war effort.
This is such a colossal cope, even with the entirety of the US' economy behind the war effort the Nazis would take an additional 4 years to defeat.
And why are you moving the goalposts anyway tankie. I thought just taking aid for the US was enough to make Ukraine a proxy. All of a sudden the aid has to be "decisive" even though it totaled to 180 billion in inflation adjusted dollars, and came at a time when the Soviets were losing.
You're just parroting long dead apparatchiks copes about how Lend Lease didn't make any difference.
>The Soviet Union was responsible for 80% of the Nazi losses,
LMAO, where the fuck did you get that bullshit number.
What is a fact is that the US fought more on the front lines than the USSR, you know, where victory for the war was actually determined. But Russia did suffer the most casualties, in part due to them absolutely not giving a single fuck about their men and sending severely under equipped soldiers into the meat grinder with little effort given to adapt.
>And the reason why lend-lease is played up so much is to compensate for the US's late entry in the battle.
It's also played up because it's the Allies that won the war, not the Soviets. By many measures the Soviets were handled the war absolutely retardedly, and it didn't turn around UNTIL US intervention.
That's the other reason people play it up, because it is a comeback story which is compelling to people.
>The US should not have trained and armed a proxy force in Ukraine, t
Russian aggression against a poor vulnerable state is what pushed the Ukrainian gov to rely on fascists. They would not have done so if they weren't desperate.
>You could say the Russians intervened before it could happen
You could also say it's a total bullshit cover story from a country that thinks a sovereign country belongs to them.
>The US created the Donbass "seperatists" by installing a Government in Kiev that made discriminatory laws.
Give me a fucking break, and the language laws weren't even harsh, and I thought tankies hated idpol, but for some reason you're all very concerned about Russian identity. And it was passed because Russia was fomenting separatist furor, which has a centuries long history of Russification of Ukraine.
>Russia told them they could have their autonomous regions that they mostly govern them self, and apply for membership in the Russian Federation
Hahaha and hows that working out for them now? They're being used as meat shields for Putin and his quagmire, some autonomy.
>The Us overthrew the Ukrainian government
LMAO, they over threw Putin's puppet. And you once again decontextualize the situation. This only happened after Crimea and Putin installing a puppet in Belarus. What was NATO supposed to do? Let Putin do whatever the fuck he wanted. And you exaggerate their involvement. There was plenty of grassroots support for the Western gov especially after oil was discovered. No one, and I mean no one, wants to join one of the poorest, most corrupted countries with one of the worst wealth inequality gaps. No one under 40 even fucking remembers the USSR, so you can stop capping about how this is all some resurrection of the Comintern.
>It's the anti-imperialist view,
It's funny how often this mirrors reactionary Republican views.
>This is not a resource war,
You're right, resources are actually somewhat scarce, it's a war over market monopolies. Russia is so backwards it's only real revenue stream is oil, without that they face a true existential crisis. Which is the MATERIAL reason they are risking so much on this hackneyed war. It has nothing to do with your bloviating righteous indignation about security, land claims or ethnic tensions, Putin doesn't give a fuck about Russians in Russia, much less one's in Ukraine, kek.
>Big NATO shill energy denying material reality that blatantly
>Only NATO shills would criticize this ballsed up war Russia started.
lol, kys ya huckster tankie.
>>

 No.455730

>le multipolarity good
lol, shut up fucking tankie.
>>

 No.455733

>>455729
There is a lot of historical revisionism floating around, that was created during the first cold war. It sought to change the narrative around WW2 to minimize the Soviet Achievements, and minimize the skill of the Soviet military and the power of Soviet industrial might. The USSR was objectively the primary force in defeating the Nazis. I can understand why this type of historical revisionism was done during the first cold war when the Soviet Union was a rival, but why are you doing this now ? Now it is is just vandalism of history.

>Russian aggression against a poor vulnerable state is what pushed the Ukrainian gov to rely on fascists.

The liberal goes mask off fascist collaborator.
You are telling me that you feel it's ok for the US to use fascist proxy forces for it's imperial goals of subduing Russia.
I find this morally reprehensible but even from a position of callous imperial opportunism that makes no sense. The fascists always loose, they still believe in super-weapons , just like the Nazis did. There was the magic infantry rocket launchers, than it was that one drone model, and then the multiple rocket launcher truck. Meanwhile the Russians are using standard combined arms warfare tactics, with bog-standard industrial weapons and they are crushing it. One thing I will never understand is why the fascists are sending so many of their fighters into unwinnable battles. They are marching men into their deaths just to hold irrelevant ground for a few days longer. They don't seem to understand that warfare is about destroying enemy forces not about conquering ground.
I got side-tracked ranting, sorry. The point was: why isn't the US working with sensible people in Ukraine, that don't come with fascistic bullshit attached. In the Donbass region Russia is working with social democrats, with communists and even some of the liberals and they are winning.

>Give me a fucking break, and the language laws weren't even harsh

The people in the eastern Ukraine cared enough about this stuff to create their own people's republics and secede from Ukraine. So you are wrong.
Also liberals don't get a break with cultural shit anymore, not since you lot went apeshit about "cultural genocide" with the Uyiguhrs in China (who buy the way has state funded schools and that teach their uyiguhr language and cultural heritage, the Chinese even translate official documents and public signage for the purpose of cultural accommodation)

>Putin installing a puppet in Belarus

huh?
Lukashenko has been president of Belarus since 1994
Putin has been President of the Russian federation since 1999

>It's funny how often this mirrors reactionary Republican views.

You have to stop using US internal bourgeois politics (red vs blue) to understand the world.
anti-imperialism is a position in international politics
>>

 No.455734

>>455730
Multipolarity will help the working class in the imperial core. Because the imperial bourgeoisie will loose class-power relative to the workers at home if they can't dominate other countries anymore. Workers in the imperial core could not do effective class struggle because the imperial bourgeoisie could just send their industries into another country and exploit other workers. In the multi-polar world it gets harder for the imperial bourgeoisie to use the hole world as a reserve army of labor, and that means if the workers at home strike they have leverage again. The multipolar world also helps the workers in the periphery because, they will be able to have domestic industrial development that helps raising their quality of life.
>>

 No.455735

File: 1659313652626.jpg (9.65 KB, 300x168, night.jpg)

>>455733
>There is a lot of historical revisionism floating around, that was created during the first cold war. It sought to change the narrative around WW2 to minimize the Soviet Achievements,
Nah, tankies are trying to use the growing awareness that the US didn't actually win WWII single highhandedly, or were even the determining factor, to try and sell a different lie that it was the AkShUlLy the Soviets that won it.
Both are lies, it was the Allies that won WWII and to say that the US wasn't instrumental is absolute 100%
COPE
>The liberal goes mask off fascist collaborator.
And the tankie builds another strawman. Recognizing the realpolitik dialectics is not an endorsement of said politics.
>You are telling me that you feel it's ok for the US to use fascist proxy forces for it's imperial goals of subduing Russia.
LMAO
Oh now it's Ukraine that had designs on subjugating Russia. Do you even listen to yourself.
>The fascists always loose,
Demonstrably wrong, and what of Russia's fucking own fascists in it's government.
Putin uses the fash biker gang "The Night Wolves" as his personal army, they run security for him and crush dissent all while being above the law.
For some reason you tankies aren't so worried about that.
>There was the magic infantry rocket launchers, blah blah blah a bunch of copes about Russia actually winning.
Russia is not winning, that that's just talking about the war, and not even the sure to follow insurgency if they ever do manage to win. You are sooooooo out of touch with reality.
>The people in the eastern Ukraine cared enough about this stuff to create their own people's republics and secede from Ukraine.
Niqqa please, that was all Russia covert subversion.
>Also liberals don't get a break with cultural shit anymore, not since you lot went apeshit about "cultural genocide" with the Uyiguhrs in China
China is oppressing Uyguhr's which is why "anti-imperialists" read just angry brainlet nihilist anti-americans with real reputations to uphold have stopped talking about it.
>Lukashenko has been president of Belarus since 1994
OMG, you're going to pretend like his last election wasn't rigged with the help of Putin.
>You have to stop using US internal bourgeois politics (red vs blue) to understand the world.
Lol, if your foreign policy aligns perfectly with some of the most racist colonialist, capitalist right wingers on the planet maybe the problem is on your end.
>anti-imperialism is a position in international politics
LMAO, Putin was fucking installed by the CIA to save Boris Yelsin's election and to keep communists out of that office. You are all just state capitalist stooges and like clockwork, you're falling in with the fash right.
>>

 No.455736

>>455734
Multipolarity only has a possibility of working if the other pole isn't capitalist.
It doesn't matter, it's all tankie circlejerking anyway. Russia has shown it doesn't have the military might of even France much less fucking burgerland.
All you tankies talking about multipolarity might as well be arguing about whether Superman or Spiderman would win in a fight because it is about as real lol.
>>

 No.455742

>>455734
The multipolar world doesn't help the proletariat at all, the aftermath of the collapse of another multipolar world could lead to revolution, and the collapse of capitalism into whatever communism would be.
>>

 No.455743

The "tankie" position is stupid. None of these states like Russia or China should be supported by pro-revolutionaries in my opinion. Whining about "US imperialism or Israeli oppression" falls right out my ear like when liberals whine about Uyghurs or Ukraine. We can't do shit about it, we can't do anything to destroy capitalism right now, we're just sitting back and watching. If multipolarity comes about it won't help the proletariat, it only brings about the possibility of these capitalist states bankrupting themselves and taking many missteps like World War 1. This would again be the perfect ground for the proletariat, in their best interest, to become revolutionary.
>>

 No.455746

The Multipolarity idea or fixation is a cope for how useless we really are against global capitalism. No better than a religious nut praying to sky, instead tankies pray to nation states they don't live in, have no connection to, and don't give a damn about the dissolution of capitalism. We are on our own.
>>

 No.455749

File: 1659326181207.jpg (172.62 KB, 1200x750, tank girl.jpg)

"tankie" is a synonym for socialist or communist, liberals use that word to describe people that champion the interests of the working class It's a badge of honor, we should all aspire to be more "tankie".

You should critically support anti-imperialist states like China and Russia, they weaken the imperial system that is not only enforcing capitalism around the world but also specifically the Neo-liberalism variant of capitalism, that is extra destructive.

China is a socialist country. They still have a lot of capitalist economic features, that is a legacy of China's past where the socialist revolution happened in a very backwards economy that was mostly a peasant economy. The Chinese political system has proven resilient to bourgeois take over, and it does not sell political power to capitalists. China is also the principle counter-weight in the international sphere that moderates the excesses of the US empire.

US imperialism should be opposed very strongly (with as much whining as you please)
Israel as a proto-fascist state that enforces apartheid should also be opposed very strongly.

Multipolarity simply is the result of the crumbling of the US empire do to self-inflicted harm from Neo-liberal mismanagement of the economy. It will restore a great deal of political power to workers around the world, by weakening the ability of imperial capital to force labor into international wage competition.
>>

 No.455750

File: 1659335631991.jpg (42.63 KB, 516x459, 165931665279.jpg)

>>455749
I still cringe when libs call me a tankie and I am rather livbertarian in my approach to marxism, but, you raise a good point none the less. I disagree that we should unquestioningly support states and countries even if they are socialist to some degree. I don't think that their mere being socialist demands uncritical support. Critical support is important for the foundations we ourselves wish to build and construct as we move into the future. For example, I support china and agree that it is socialist, but, I disagree with it's track record of human rights abuses.

I'm sure some one will call me a lib, but, my point still stands. We should be critical in our support so we do not make the same mistakes.

Also, please post more cute anime gommies.
>>

 No.455751

>>455720
LE HECKIN BASED WHOLESOME BIG CHUNGUS ANTI-IMPERIALIST STRUGGLE MOMENT

I STAND WITH ZELENSKA AGAINST RUSSIAN ORCS
>>

 No.455752

File: 1659336852250.gif (2.47 MB, 500x374, 3do3.gif)

>>455749
>"tankie" is a synonym for socialist or communist,
Oh no it is not, it is synonymous with Stalinism, which is anti-democratic and authoritarian, and that's exactly how that pejorative is used.
Tankies can't grok this because they have this dense interconnected system of copes that deflect or minimize all criticism. It's little wonder that tankies are thickest on the ground in western countries.
>>

 No.455754

>>455752
No, most synonyms loose all their meaning over time. I have been called a tankie expressing out right democratic views.
>>

 No.455755

Has anyone seen Agent Vaush's new video on ukraine?
It's literally just two cucks pathetically coping like crazy.
>>

 No.455756

>>455754
I've never been called a tankie, funny that.
>>

 No.455757

>>455754
>I have been called a tankie expressing out right democratic views.
>Someone was retarded on the internet, this means everyone is retarded.
Wew, what a victim complex.
>>

 No.455758

>>455756
That doesn't really mean anything.
>>

 No.455759

>>455758
It does, it means you get called a tankie because you are one.
>>

 No.455760

>>455757
It was in person reatard. Why are you so desperate to not have your narrative destroyed? Are you that pathetic you can't accept not being a fag?
>>

 No.455761

>>455760
And, how does this undermine my point? If anything it strengthens it since people in person tend to be a lot more conservative with insults since they can't hind behind a safety of a keyboard.
>>

 No.455762

>>455760
Okay, people can be retarded in person too.
>>

 No.455763

>>455759
Phrases like this are just simple and easy ways for glow uyghurs like you to shut down otherwise productive conversation.
>>

 No.455764

>>455761
What are you talking about? Are you stupid or something, lol?

I never said it undermined your point. I said that you are stupid because it didn't happen on line and you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

>>455763
This refutes your point.
>>

 No.455765

lol tankies really think they're "anti-imperialist" after what the Russians did in Hungary.
>>

 No.455766

>>455755
That guy is a shithead.
>>

 No.455767

>>455766
I fucking know right.

>>455765

Imagine thinking like this.
>>

 No.455768

>>455767
Okay statist.
>>

 No.455769

File: 1659372656350.mp4 (5.18 MB, 1280x720, UkranianFreedomFighters.mp4)

>>455735
>Oh now it's Ukraine that had designs on subjugating Russia.
That is literally their (NATO, US, EU) goal. They keep saying how Afghanistan war was what led to the dissolution of the Soviet Union. They were hoping this war was going to bleed Russia, paired with the sanctions it was going to cause misery and make the people revolt. Again, this is literally their publicly stated goal.
>Putin uses the fash biker gang "The Night Wolves" as his personal army, they run security for him and crush dissent all while being above the law.
Maybe that is what is needed to run Russia. Putin has to control and outmanouver all the oligarchs, mafia bosses, cartels, criminal organisations, etc. Yes, the material reality of Russia results in Putin acquiring protection and "muscle" from the right-wing. I don't agree with it, I don't like it, but it doesn't make Russia fascist. Making a Neo-Nazi battalion part of your regular army does, however.
>Russia is not winning
They have so far:
>established a land bridge to Crimea, and turned on the water from the Dniepr to the people of Crimea
>liberated Luhansk completely, there are no Ukrainian forces on the territory of the LPR
The only thing left for them to do is liberate the DPR, and their initial goals will have been achieved. The Ukrainians are in their last line of defense in Donetsk, the Kramatorsk-Sloviansk line, and the Allied forces are already near Sloviansk. Once this defensive line falls, there is nothing behind it except flat lands and steppe for hundreds of kilometers.
>not even the sure to follow insurgency if they ever do manage to win.
Ukrainians have largely left DPR. And now Zelensky has called for a mandatory evacuation of Ukrainians in LPR. All the ethnic Russians and those who trust the Russian regime more will stay behind. Just like it happened in Mariupol and DPR.
>You are sooooooo out of touch with reality.
Your "reality" is constructed and given to you by the mass media.
>that was all Russia covert subversion.
Did Russia ban Russian in schools in Ukraine? Ukraine banned all languages from being taught in school that were taught there until then (Russian, Hungarian, Romanian) and made Ukrainian the only official language of Ukraine. When the ethnic Russians in the east protested against it, the Ukrainians started killing them.
>China is oppressing Uyguhr's
Yet Ukraine is not oppressing minorities, curious.
>you're going to pretend like his last election wasn't rigged with the help of Putin.
lol. you think people voted for the opposition leader? The woman who is now hiding in Poland, playing government in exile. You can really see the ridiculousness of liberals. Guaido is the president of Venezuela, she's the president of Belarus. She got 10% in the election, which seems like a realistic number tbh.
>if your foreign policy aligns perfectly with some of the most racist colonialist, capitalist right wingers on the planet maybe the problem is on your end.
The fucking irony. Your foreign policy right now aligns with NATO, US, EU, GB, AUS… history's greatest colonial, racist, capitalist powers.
>you're falling in with the fash right.
Ukraine has neo-nazi battalions in its army, it has neo-nazi militias all over the place. Who do you think is doing the policing in the cities? The fucking nazis, you dumb fuck. Meanwhile, Putin has been cracking down and jailing neo-nazis in Russia. You can't display a swastika in Russia openly. In Ukraine they're all over the place. Ukraine has dozens of statues to Stepan Bandera. It's no contest, no matter how much you reeeeee about Russia.
>>

 No.455770

>>455768
The real issue with this logic is that it trumps ideology over intellect. It promotes putting emotions and ideology over facts and rationale thinking.It's kind of the same as being a christian. Why do you need to believe the truth when you have the truth already set out for you? It's the same thing as christian politics. You shouldn't just write something off because you think it is X or Y or Z. If you disagree we should at least be able to have a discussion about why you believe it is right or wrong.
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 No.455771

>>455763
>Only glowies hate bankrupt authortarian ideologies.
Cope niqqa
>>

 No.455772

>>455771
How about you actually have a discussion about what I think. I am not authoritarian and you trying to frame me as such is just childish. What's the matter? Don't have an autism score high enough to have a conversation like an adult?
>>

 No.455773

>>455772
>How about you actually have a discussion about what I think.
All you've done is spout ad homeium attacks. Like all dumbass tankies influenced by imageboard culture you argue as though you speak from the center and that what you deem as the benchmark for political discourse is true.
Tankies are the ones that are way outside of the left's dialog, but you can't admit it and cry about everyone but you being libs.
>>

 No.455774

File: 1659385755297.png (4.84 MB, 2560x1440, west.png)

>>455769
>Maybe that is what is needed to run Russia.
>Ukraine's use of Nazis in their government is unforgivable, the scourge of fascism must be stopped at all costs!
>Don't you know Russia's use of the fash is a necessary evil u_u.
All said with a straight face. The depths of tankie sociopathy never cease to amaze me.
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 No.455775

File: 1659386186007.jpg (312.38 KB, 2000x1333, blm.jpg)

>>455769
>That is literally their (NATO, US, EU) goal.
Lol, Ukraine is not a NATO proxy. They wouldn't even let them into NATO.
This is a talking point straight from the Kremlin that's memed throughout their media because Russia wants to claim they defeated NATO if they ever actually win this FUBAR'ed war.
I'd call you a shill but I know that you
DO IT FOR FREE
>>

 No.455776

File: 1659387159526.jpg (84.06 KB, 525x700, hai.jpg)

>>455769
>The fucking irony. Your foreign policy right now aligns with NATO, US, EU, GB, AUS… history's greatest colonial, racist, capitalist powers.
Lol no, but I'm not so rabid tankie ideologue that I think that NATO can't inadvertently do the right thin sometimes.
You have to imagine all these completely unproven grand conspiracies to justify your position. NATO had 30 years to incorporate Ukraine, but didn't because they're too broke.
Not exactly what I would call a diabolical to overthrow Russia.
Yes, NATO did expand, but that's periphery to Russia's motivations.
Missles can already strike Moscow from Poland, and Ukraine only gets drips and drops of support from the US.
The US opportunistically fucking over Putin while he has his pepe stuck in a hornets nest doesn't in the least diminish Ukraine's will for sovereignty.
The old Warsaw block clamoring to rejoin Russia is such as staggeringly myopic fairy tale that only the tankies believe it.
>>

 No.455777

>>455776
*I'm not some rabid
>>

 No.455778

>>455776
*Not exactly what I would call a diabolical scheme to overthrow Russia.
*Putin while he has his peepee stuck
Sorry, I'm fuckin' up today, my A/C is out.
>>

 No.455779

>>455775
>Ukraine is not a NATO proxy
>armed with NATO weapons
>trained by NATO instructors in NATO countries
>NATO countries give them billions every month to keep their country afloat
>NATO countries encouraging people to go fight there by saying there's no legal barrier, same countries that prosecuted people as terrorists for fighting for Rojava against ISIS
>Javelin, NLAW, Bayraktar, PzH-2000, HIMARS, M270… these are all NATO Wunderwaffe, and every one of them is supposed to turn the tide of the war and finally make Russia lose
NATO is fighting Russia until the last Ukrainian, they've said as much. They openly say it is worth it to send weapons to Ukraine because they are weakening Russia for a fraction of the price. Life of Ukrainians and idiot volounteers is cheap.
>>

 No.455780

>>455779
>Ukraine is not a NATO proxy
Si
>armed with NATO weapons
Most of their stuff is old Soviet gear.
>trained by NATO instructors in NATO countries
And trained by Red Army vets. You tankies like to conveniently forget that.
>NATO countries give them billions every month to keep their country afloat
Well yeah, now that they're being invaded.
>NATO countries encouraging people to go fight there by saying there's no legal barrier, same countries that prosecuted people as terrorists for fighting for Rojava against ISIS
What are you even talking about, you're so rabid you don't even make sense.
Turkey =/= NATO, and the US was allies with Rojava, something Tankies at the time endlessly screamed about. You red painted fuck ups can't even keep track of what said a few years ago lol
>Javelin, NLAW, Bayraktar, PzH-2000, HIMARS, M270… these are all NATO Wunderwaffe, and every one of them is supposed to turn the tide of the war and finally make Russia lose
Yes, and it's working. Ukraine is running down the clock. Russia can't pour resources into this war forever.
>>

 No.455782

File: 1659390859890.png (108 KB, 564x542, 1659301734065031.png)

>>455773
What as homenim attacks have a I made? All I said was we shouldn't not be critical in our approach to socialist states like China and we should hold them accountable for their crim s and learn from them. What anon do you think I am? All you have done in response is call me a tankie when I believe that syndicates of unions should run the economy and keep the federal government in check, lol. You have no idea what I believe.
>>

 No.455783

>>455782
>What as homenim attacks have a I made?
You called all your critiques glowies and libs. I bet you genuinely can't remember doing that even though it's right here in the thread because your narcissism is so acute.
>>

 No.455784

>>455783
*all your critics
>>

 No.455785

>>455783
>>455783
You need to re-examine the definition of an ad hominem attack because an adhominem attack isn't anytime some one says something mean to you you glow uyghur faggot.
>>

 No.455786

>>455785
YOU DID IT AGAIN
You have zero proof that I'm even tangetnally related to the CIA. And thinking you're full of shit isn't proof.
There is international support for the liberation of Ukraine, the sanctions against Russia were passed nearly unianmously by the UN. People are horrified by this type of agression because they thought European convential wars were a thing of the past. Unless you think the CIA's payroll numbers into hundreds of millions of people then no, people against Russian aggression are not glowies.
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 No.455787

<Venezuela’s Guaidó wins UK court ruling in battle over gold
>LONDON (AP) — Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaidó won a U.K. court ruling Friday that takes him a step closer to victory in his battle with President Nicolás Maduro over a cache of gold bullion held in the Bank of England.

>A judge at the High Court in London ruled that British courts do not need to recognize judgments by the Supreme Tribunal of Justice of Venezuela, Venezuela’s top constitutional court, that said the gold should go to Maduro.


>The ruling is part of a long-running wrangle over assets of Venezuela’s central bank. Two rival boards of Banco Central de Venezuela – one appointed by Maduro and another by Guaidó – are battling to secure the release of more than 800 million pounds ($1 billion) of gold in the vaults of the Bank of England.


>The British government recognizes Guaidó as Venezuela’s president, and the Bank of England has refused to hand the gold over to Maduro.

https://apnews.com/article/london-england-government-and-politics-ac55214bcb437833a20f31bed6306460

TAKE THAT you fucking tankies! You authoritarian tankies are losing! The free world is WINNING!

Guaido is the president of Venezuela.
Tsikhanouskaya is the president of Belarus.
Navalny is the present of Russia.

SALIVA UKRAÎNI!!
>>

 No.455788

>>455786
>There is international support for the liberation of Ukraine
>the sanctions against Russia were passed nearly unianmously by the UN
Yes, "Western", predominantly white, anglo and historically imperialist countries. Africa, S. America don't give a fuck about Ukraine or support Russia.

I'm not even a "tankie", but there's no Z flag and Soviet tanks are kicking Ukronazi ass right now so it seemed appropriate.
>>

 No.455789

>>455788
I said it was supported internationally, maybe you can't read. Normal people tend to react like that when they see tanks rolling into cities, and endless footage of villages being shelled.
People don't justify that type of violence with weird and ugly justifications about it being neccesary.
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 No.455790

File: 1659429038134.jpg (248.42 KB, 1280x960, 1659426421449381.jpg)

>>455789
>I said it was supported internationally
Followed by a comma, and then you wrote the sanctions against Russia were passed unanimously by the UN, implying that the international support is also unanimous. Maybe you don't know about grammar, punctuation, inferred and implied meaning.
>>455786
>There is international support for the liberation of Ukraine, the sanctions against Russia were passed nearly unianmously by the UN.
You're being disingenuous, only way your liberal point of view can make any sense.
>people tend to react like that when they see tanks rolling into cities, and endless footage of villages being shelled.
lol, where was the international outrage when US and NATO forces invaded Afghanistan? Oh wait, the "International community" was doing the invading. What about Iraq? What about when NATO destroyed Libya? I guess open slave markets don't evoke the same reaction as tanks.

"International community" refers to the "Western" world. Countries in Africa are not part of the international community, for example. The support Eritrea, Mali, Angola, and others that have shown support for Russia don't count, because according to you and your ilk, brown and black people don't have agency.
>>

 No.455791

>>455790
>What about Iraq?
Underage b8 cringe zoomer tankie. The US invasion of Iraq in 2003 sparked the largest global anti-war protests in world history, including in the US, in all its major cities. This was a few years before you were born so you wouldn't know this, zoom zoom
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 No.455792

File: 1659433922888.png (272.53 KB, 312x452, ClipboardImage.png)

>>

 No.455793

File: 1659442614556-0.jpg (235.39 KB, 1536x1536, krvxcr1anhd91.jpg)

File: 1659442614556-1.jpg (67.07 KB, 526x526, 1658348634664948.jpg)

>>455791
lol, I knew you were going to bring up the anti-war protests. You've been programmed, so you're predictable.

Before I address Iraq, tell me about Afghanistan (2 years before Iraq) and tell me about Libya, you have conveniently forgot about those two and jumped on the one that you thought was convenient to your position.

Now, onto the "anti-war protests":

What did the protests accomplish? War in Iraq went on for nearly 20 years. Isn't it funny how the protests fizzled out after Obama was elected? It's almost as if the anti-Bush protests were a psyop to get Obama. elected. After 2008, no protests and wars go for another decade. So what was the point you were trying to make, again?

Even if I accept that the protests against Iraqi war were completely organic, they are different to the reaction to Ukraine because in Ukraine's case, the outrage is being driven by governments. Which Western government protested the war in Iraq? France? The same France that later went into Libya to secure 25% of oil rights for Total oil company.

>zoom

Ironic, since you've learned about the Iraqi war protests from fucking Wikipedia, while I actually attended the ones in my country (we were protesting my country's involvement).

Again, you Ukronazi supporters are shown to have a simplistic view of the situation, lacking historical context or nuance.

I bet you don't even acknowledge that Ukraine has been shelling Donbas since 2014. No, to you this war started February 24 this year. lol

QUESTION FOR YOU UKROFAGS
If flags, patches and symbols are pure symbolism and mean nothing, then why, all things being equal, would you support the side that fights under a Swastika, rather than the one that fights under the Soviet victory banner and hammer and sickle? Do you hate communists so much, you'd rather ally with bona fide nazis over LARPing Russians?
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 No.455794

File: 1659444422491-0.png (4.28 KB, 300x300, United_for_peace_and_justi….png)

File: 1659444422491-1.jpg (228.46 KB, 1280x960, 1280px-ANSWER_March_on_the….jpg)

>>455793
>UFPJ's most recent major rally and march was in Washington D.C. on January 27, 2007. Among the featured speakers were several celebrities including Jane Fonda.[4]
<no to "Bush agenda"
>ANSWER called national antiwar demonstrations in San Francisco and Washington, DC for September 15, 2007. According to the group, the attendance was 100,000.[7]
<impeach Bush
Very anti-war, much organic.
>ANSWER joined with other groups to organize the March 20, 2010 anti-war protest in Washington, DC.
I wonder why there was no protests between November elections in 2008 and 2010. Curious. After November 2008 the protests just fizzle out and are nowhere nearly as big.
>>

 No.455795

>>455793
>Where was the outrage for the US invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq?
<The spark the largest protests in history at a time of unprecedented natinoalist fervor.
>Heh heh, I knew you'd bring that so I'll move the goalposts and ask what they accomplished.
God you are so retarded. And do you not understand that the wars ended? Youbreally don't think the anti war movement hhlad anything to do with that. Bush and Cheney can't leave the US to this day because they are wanted for war crimes.
>>

 No.455796

File: 1659451150609.jpg (60.24 KB, 596x592, Weird-s0yi2mdmnjd91.jpg)

>>455794
>Very anti-war, much organic.
What are you even saying? That the 2000's anti-war movement was a psyop? LMAO, for what purpose?
>I wonder why there was no protests between November elections in 2008 and 2010.
<This racist is still mad a niqqa got into office.
I always knew tankies were red painted right wingers but damn you make it too obvious.
As for the question, it might have been because people thought Obama would end the war, foolish yes, but doesn't imply some maniacal plot like your frantic straw grasping seems to imply.
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 No.455797

File: 1659451701659.jpg (428.68 KB, 1920x1080, diety.jpg)

>>455794
>I wonder why there was no protests between November elections in 2008 and 2010.
This was when the 2008 Financial Crisis occurred.
>>

 No.455798

File: 1659451836303.png (142.66 KB, 1280x1752, nato_expansion.png)

>>455776
>that I think that NATO can't inadvertently do the right thin sometimes.
Name the "right" things NATO has done.
>NATO had 30 years to incorporate Ukraine, but didn't because they're too broke.
Ukraine is not part of NATO or EU, yet they have received nearly $100B in various aid. Maybe you're well-off and you don't rely on social programs and the welfare state, but many people do. Throwing billions down the drain (literally, because all the military equipment gets kalibr'd by Russia before it even reaches the east of Ukraine) is only going to result in more austerity measures in the EU. First things that get cut are pensions and other social programs.
>Yes, NATO did expand, but that's periphery to Russia's motivations.
What? NATO gave Russia assurances that they won't expand east, and since 1991 that's all they have done. Have you looked at a map of NATO expansion?
>pic related
>Missles can already strike Moscow from Poland

Poland was one of the countries NATO expanded to. Thanks for proving my point.
>The US opportunistically fucking over Putin while he has his pepe stuck in a hornets nest doesn't in the least diminish Ukraine's will for sovereignty.
Ukraine could have retained sovereignty, they could have recognised LPR and DPR, or just stuck to the Minsk II Accords (a deal brokered by France and Germany, fyi). But Nazis gonna Nazi, and now I hope Ukraine loses access to the Black Sea as punishment for their bullshit.
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 No.455799

File: 1659451926007.jpg (2.06 MB, 3974x3074, boyos.jpg)

>>455794
>Asks where the protests for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were.
>Gets utterly BTFO'd
<Leftychan finally has it's own lolcow.
We've arrived boyos.
>>

 No.455800

File: 1659453099704.jpg (129 KB, 1280x852, 1656880224597.jpg)

>>455795
>And do you not understand that the wars ended?
12-13 years after the protests peak, must be lag.
>Youbreally don't think the anti war movement hhlad anything to do with that.
I'm not a lib, so no.
>Bush and Cheney can't leave the US to this day because they are wanted for war crimes.
lol do you actually believe that? You liberals really think we live in a "Just World". US's official policy is that they will never allow an American citizen to be tried for war crimes in a foreign court. Where are all the Americans at the Hague? There are literally none, never have been and never will be, because the US would invade the Netherlands and take their people out if they were taken there.

>>455796
>LMAO, for what purpose?
To elect Obama.
>Before the invasion in March 2003, polls showed 47–60% of the US public supported an invasion, dependent on U.N. approval.[1] According to the same poll retaken in April 2007, 58% of the participants stated that the initial attack was a mistake.[2] In May 2007, the New York Times and CBS News released similar results of a poll in which 61% of participants believed the U.S. "should have stayed out" of Iraq.[3]
><This racist is still mad a niqqa got into office.
HOLY SHIT. DID YOU JUST USE THE "YOU HATE OBAMA CAUSE HE'S BLACK" CARD? HAHAHAHAHA YOU STUPID FUCKING LIBERAL, GO BACK TO REDDIT
>it might have been because people thought Obama would end the war
He even got a Nobel Peace Prize, I'm sure you clapped.

>>455797
>This was when the 2008 Financial Crisis occurred.
Even more reason to protest. Economic hardship usually makes people protest more, not less. If the protest is organic, of course. But if, on the other hand, the govt. runs out of money to pay agents provocateurs, you'd expect the protests to go down, sure.

>>455799
I have already addressed that.
>>455794
>Even if I accept that the protests against Iraqi war were completely organic, they are different to the reaction to Ukraine because in Ukraine's case, the outrage is being driven by governments and so is the "resistance" to Putin.
People didn't just decide to be against the war in Ukraine, they were told to be by the liberal, mainstream media. Zelenskyy speaks in front of parliaments, they set up screens so he can talk to people in other countries, he's spoken at fucking Glastonbury. But yeah, tell me how it's all exactly the same. And the fact that you can't seem to notice the massive top-down driven media campaign in support of Ukraine makes me think you're dumb, really really dumb.
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/polls-show-us-support-for-ukraine-waning-as-biden-administration-steps-up-aid/
>While solidarity with Ukraine remains strong within Congress and the Biden administration, it clearly has limits with the American electorate.
>>

 No.455801

>>455800
>the govt.
meant the glowies
>>

 No.455802

File: 1659453279188.jpg (1.02 MB, 1920x1080, zombie.jpg)

>>455798
>What? NATO gave Russia assurances that they won't expand east, and since 1991 that's all they have done. Have you looked at a map of NATO expansion?
Yes, NATO is partly to blame. But Russia's security concerns do not supersede the sovereignty of Ukraine.
You cannot invade a country over what they might do, you sound just like burgers during the Iraq war.
and just like that war it's really over oil, and Ukraine being the gas station of Western Europe instead of Russia
>>

 No.455803

File: 1659453562888.jpg (139.5 KB, 500x725, cope.jpg)

>>455800
>><This racist is still mad a niqqa got into office.
>HOLY SHIT. DID YOU JUST USE THE "YOU HATE OBAMA CAUSE HE'S BLACK" CARD? HAHAHAHAHA YOU STUPID FUCKING LIBERAL, GO BACK TO REDDIT
>Calling you a racist is reddit.
Picrel.
And I said that because you're making up completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about what one single anti-war group stopped protesting for two years.
You are a racist buddy.
>>

 No.455804

File: 1659454520122.webm (5.83 MB, 720x406, cringe.webm)

>>455800
>Before the invasion in March 2003, polls showed 47–60% of the US public supported an invasion, dependent on U.N. approval.[1] According to the same poll retaken in April 2007, 58% of the participants stated that the initial attack was a mistake.[2] In May 2007, the New York Times and CBS News released similar results of a poll in which 61% of participants believed the U.S. "should have stayed out" of Iraq.[3]
Moving the goalposts again I see. At first you asked where the anti Iraq and Afghanistan protest were, implying that Russia is being treated unfairly by the international community, even though those wars set off the largest anti-war protest in fucking history kek.
Now your saying that those wars were supported by the majority of Americans, even though Obama, who ran on ending the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, had the highest voter turnout ever and was subsequently elected by 10's of millions of Americans.
You're going to ignore that over some silly newspaper poll.
But I've had enough, I know you tankies will just continue to lie until something big happens like Ukraine winning. Then you'll disappear and pretend like you never held those retarded positions in the first place. A pathetic political life really.
>>

 No.455805

File: 1659454649435-0.png (60 KB, 897x556, Screenshot 2022-08-02 at 1….png)

File: 1659454649435-1.png (81.48 KB, 518x346, Screenshot 2022-08-02 at 1….png)

File: 1659454649435-2.jpg (100.46 KB, 1200x630, chemarxist.jpg)

>>455802
>more liberal lies
>Russia's security concerns do not supersede the sovereignty of Ukraine.
Then Ukraine shouldn't have been flirting with NATO. Ukraine and Russia share 2000+km of border. There's no mountains, or rivers, just open plains. When Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union, they went through Ukraine. If NATO was to invade Russia, they'd go through Ukraine. Ukraine could have declared itself neutral and said they'd never join NATO. But they didn't, they continued to kill civilians in Donbas while saying they'll join NATO. Look what Turkey is doing to the Kurds in Rojava, Turkey is a NATO member and nobody can stop them.
>You cannot invade a country over what they might do
MIGHT?? War in Donbas started in 2014. Here's wikipedia since you love it so much, even they don't deny that war has been going on since 2014.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas_(2014%E2%80%932022)
>you sound just like burgers during the Iraq war.
Because Iraq that is 10.000km away from US is the same as Ukraine that shares a 2000+km unprotected border with Russia. You liberals really need to learn about context.
>just like that war it's really over oil
Here come the reddit talking points. Russia is literally called "the gas station of Europe" (you say as much yourself), Russia has plenty of oil. Ukraine is the 51st country by proven oil reserves, they have less oil than Romain, Italy, or Denmark.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proven_oil_reserves
>Ukraine being the gas station of Western Europe instead of Russia
Literally never gonna happen, see above. And this is what really pisses me off about you liberals. You can easily look this up, you just look for "Ukraine oil reserves", but you don't, because you believe uncritically everything the liberal mainstream media tells you. In fact, your worldview depends on you accepting what the media tells you uncritically.

>>455803
I guess I have to spoon feed you, because you are incapable of looking things up. John Oliver didn't do a segment on it, so no wonder you know nothing about it.
>At the convention, a majority of UFPJ’s leadership and featured speakers argued forcefully that the antiwar movement should credit itself for helping get Obama elected and should be encouraged that the peace/antiwar movement had—finally—an ally in the White House.

>“We have elected the most progressive mainstream politician imaginable,” declared William McNary, president of USAction/TrueMajority, at the opening plenary. McNary went on to describe Obama as our “quarterback” and that the movement’s task is to “block for” him. On the same panel, Antonia Juhasz, an activist and author of The Bush Agenda, argued, “Barack Obama has a fundamentally different approach to Iraq and the war in Afghanistan. He has a fundamentally different approach to imperialism.”


https://isreview.org/issue/63/antiwar-movement-and-obama/index.html

>A third possibility, though, is that the election of Barack Obama sapped the energy of the U.S. antiwar movement. Reihan Salam points to a 2011 paper by sociologists Michael T. Heaney and Fabio Rojas, who find that antiwar protests shrunk very quickly after Obama took office in 2008 — mainly because Democrats were less likely to show up:


<Drawing upon 5,398 surveys of demonstrators at antiwar protests, interviews with movement leaders, and ethnographic observation, this article argues that the antiwar movement demobilized as Democrats, who had been motivated to participate by anti-Republican sentiments, withdrew from antiwar protests when the Democratic Party achieved electoral success, if not policy success in ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.


>Heaney and Rojas begin by puzzling over a paradox. Obama ran as an antiwar candidate, but his first few years in office were rather different: "As president, Obama maintained the occupation of Iraq and escalated the war in Afghanistan. The antiwar movement should have been furious at Obama’s 'betrayal' and reinvigorated its protest activity. Instead, attendance at antiwar rallies declined precipitously and financial resources available to the movement dissipated."


>But even though the wars were far from ended, the two researchers find that the size of antiwar protests rapidly dwindled between 2007 and 2009 anyway:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/08/29/where-did-the-antiwar-movement-go/

All you've done is write snide and smug remarks, denying reality.
>>

 No.455806

File: 1659455031441.mp4 (6.39 MB, 382x480, no_nazis_in_ukraine.mp4)

>>455804
>At first you asked where the anti Iraq and Afghanistan protest were, implying that Russia is being treated unfairly by the international community, even though those wars set off the largest anti-war protest in fucking history kek.
THE PROTESTS ACHIEVED NOTHING. Where are the sanctions on the US? Where are the UN resolutions against the US? The "international community" has banned fucking dog and cat breeds from Russia. They've banned athletes from Belarus and Russia unless they pledge allegiance to the liberal world order and publicly denounce Putin. You keep equivocating the too when there's no equivocation.
>Now your saying that those wars were supported by the majority of Americans, even though Obama, who ran on ending the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, had the highest voter turnout ever and was subsequently elected by 10's of millions of Americans.
>MUH OBAMA
fucking lol
>like Ukraine winning
Yup, right after Wakanda sends the latest Wunderwaffe.
>Then you'll disappear and pretend like you never held those retarded positions in the first place.
Now you're just projecting, but thanks for letting us know what you'll do once Ukraine loses.
>A pathetic political life really.
hahahahaha, says the liberal. You're just going to think whatever the latest neoliberal narrative is. I've been on the right side of history all my life. And I am definitely on the right side of history now, because I am not supporting LITERAL FUCKING NAZIS.
>>

 No.455807

>>455805
>Ukraine is the 51st country by proven oil reserves, they have less oil than Romain, Italy, or Denmark.
Wrong
>Excluding Russia’s gas reserves in Asia, Ukraine today holds the second biggest known gas reserves in Europe. As of late 2019, known Ukrainian reserves amounted to 1.09 trillion cubic meters of natural gas, second only to Norway’s known resources of 1.53 trillion cubic meters. Yet, these enormous reserves of energy remain largely untapped. Today, Ukraine has a low annual reserve usage rate of about 2 percent. Moreover, more active exploration may yield previously undiscovered gas fields, which would further increase the overall volume of Ukraine’s deposits.
https://hir.harvard.edu/ukraine-energy-reserves/
>>

 No.455808

File: 1659455367757.jpg (152.29 KB, 1200x675, pennstate.jpg)

>>455806
>THE PROTESTS ACHIEVED NOTHING.
But that's not what you asked, you asked why there were no protests, and not only were there protests, they were the largest ever.
And the war ended, so they did achieve something.
Next you're going to say the Vietnam war protests didn't contribute to the end of that war too.
I busted your ass moving the goalposts and now you don't know what to do.
>>

 No.455809

File: 1659455891777.png (81.48 KB, 518x346, Screenshot 2022-08-02 at 1….png)

>>455807
>the lib doesn't know the difference between proven and unproven oil reserves
Do I have to teach you EVERYTHING? I'm gonna start billing you soon.

>Proven reserves are those reserves claimed to have a reasonable certainty (normally at least 90% confidence) of being recoverable under existing economic and political conditions, with existing technology. Industry specialists refer to this as "P90" (that is, having a 90% certainty of being produced). Proven reserves are also known in the industry as "1P".[10][11]


>Proven reserves are further subdivided into "proven developed" (PD) and "proven undeveloped" (PUD).[11][12] PD reserves are reserves that can be produced with existing wells and perforations, or from additional reservoirs where minimal additional investment (operating expense) is required.[12] PUD reserves require additional capital investment (e.g., drilling new wells) to bring the oil to the surface.[10][12]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves#Proven_reserves

>>455808
>that's not what you asked, you asked why there were no protests, and not only were there protests, they were the largest ever.
bad bot. Is the software broken? I have addressed this. The protests against Ukraine war and protests against Iraq war are different, have different class character and are driven differently. As I said before, twice, even if I accept that Iraq war protests were 100% organic and grassroots, that makes them even more different than the opposition to the war in Ukraine. Because the protests to the war in Ukraine are the farthest from "grassroots" you can get.
>Next you're going to say the Vietnam war protests didn't contribute to the end of that war too.
>100 people protesting achieved what 100.000 people protesting couldn't
If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. You didn't even read the link I sent you, you just saw a key word and decided to respond to it.
>I busted your ass moving the goalposts and now you don't know what to do.
And you continue to be smug, I don't know why. The only thing you've said in the last three posts was "BUT THERE WERE PROTESTS AGAINST IRAQ, YOU SAID THERE WEREN'T NYANYANYANYANYA-NYA". If you're going to post it a fourth time, don't bother, I won't respond.
>>

 No.455810

File: 1659455917483.webm (4.23 MB, 640x480, pony.webm)

>>455805
Niqqa I'm not going to reconcile every little thing you dig up that happened during fucking 2008 because I don't need to.
Obama very explicitly ran an anti-war platform and his opponent very explicitly ran on a pro one. Obama won in a near landslide.
I agree that anti-war sentiment died down, but that's because many thought Obama would end the war. If you want to criticize people for making that mistake go ahead, but that doesn't mean people suddenly supported the wars because you and racists favorite lighting rod got into office.
>>

 No.455811

>>455810
>he posted it a 4th time
my fucking sides
>>

 No.455812

>>455811
Yes I mentioned the MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN THE WORLD that debunks your schizo bullshit again, what of it.
>>

 No.455813

>>455812
>schizo bullshit
The drop off in protests after Obama's election is measured and real. You say it's because people loved MUH OBAMA and thought he'd stop the wars. I'm saying it's because the protests weren't completely organic in the first place. There's literally no way of knowing who is right, yet you're so sure in your opinion that you call others schizo, like the smug liberal you are.
>glowies can organise protests in every country in the world
>except their own
Sounds right, best not to think about it too much.
>>

 No.455814

>>455793
Good post anon, there was a massive propaganda blitz in the west, combined with various forms of censorship of anti-war people and anti-imperialist leftists. That made the imperial propaganda appear a little more popular than it actually is. It does not mean that they have actual consensus in the population, it just means that you hear fewer opposing opinions. Most people will likely agree that we shouldn't senselessly antagonize Russia by putting too much Nato gear and too many Nato trained troops on their border, and they also don't like paying more for gas and food so that US led imperialists can screw with the Russians.

The Ukranian NATO outpost they were building with the help of Fascists and Fascist collaborators, was relabeled as a fight for democracy. When you consider that the Ukrainian government banned all 11 opposition parties (long before the Russian military entered the picture) it just makes it more striking how much the imperial media has disconnected from reality.

They even tried to create a synthetic anti-war position that promoted the idea of sending more weapons to prolong a war. Because war is peace apparently.

The most telling thing in the propaganda blitz was the extreme focus on Putin psychology. They tried to exclude analysis of anything that could be considered relevant context. Because then the maidan regime change operation comes up, and the decade of the Donbass civil war comes up, and the fact that Nato is creeping closer to Russia comes up as well and than the narrative falls apart.

I think the weakest point in their narrative however is that they are denying that this is a proxy war, it's so obvious now because it's no longer covert CIA handlers training Azov fighters, but it's Washington and Brussels basically funding the entire Ukrainian government and supplying military equipment. That makes it undeniable.

I think that we also can win the narrative battle that sanctions are weapons of war. Because they kill large numbers of people. The prediction is that 50 million people will suffer starvation as a result of US and EU sanctions fucking with international grain and fertilizer trade for several months, which will cut harvests for an entire season in half, and that will likely cause multiple times the deaths than the war in Ukraine. When the pen has more collateral damage than the sword.

The people who went full "Slava Unkraini" with hoisting the blue and yellow flag, were almost entirely comprised of people from whom "sancflation" did not have any noticeable decline in life-style. They are also the ones that believe the idea that the West can wage a war of attrition against Russia, because they feel like they them self have enough wealth in reserve to play games like that. For these people politics is personal. I don't know if it is possible to get these people to look at material reality, that doesn't immediately affect them. If you talk to them about things that aren't related to them self, they treat it as a debate game about a fictional franchise.
>>

 No.455815

File: 1659456787638.webm (1.66 MB, 576x720, cute.webm)

>>455813
>I'm saying it's because the protests weren't completely organic in the first place.
This is schizo, and the wars had been going on for 6 years at this point and the entire world economy was staring down the barrel of another great depression.
Tankies like you always do this purity spiral bullshit. You want people to have perfect clairvoyance and perfect vigilance even during the worst economic crashes in living memory. All while tankies were no where to be found during any of this.
>There's literally no way of knowing who is right,
No there is, your shizo aspersions don't get equal standing to actual plausible analysis.
>>

 No.455816

File: 1659456971060.jpg (1.01 MB, 2638x2183, night2.jpg)

>>455814
>The Ukranian NATO outpost they were building with the help of Fascists and Fascist collaborators,
>Ukraine had Nazis in it, that's why we invaded.
Today I will remind them.
>>

 No.455817

File: 1659457243353.mp4 (3.42 MB, 960x540, 8 years.mp4)

>>455815
>It is schizo to think the 1953 Iran coup d'etat was not a popular movement by the people of Iran to replace Mossadegh and install the Shah
From now on the only plausible explanation is that the Iran thing was an organic, grassroots movement! Thank you for opening my eyes.
>>455816
>they are wearing black! nazis!
Is this the level of your political analysis? The colour of people's clothes?
>>

 No.455818

>>455817
>>they are wearing black! nazis!
They're a 1% outlaw biker gang. The largest in Asia.
>>

 No.455819

>>455815
You also never told me the "right" things NATO did. Or did you forget about that already? lol
>>

 No.455820

>>455814
>combined with various forms of censorship of anti-war people and anti-imperialist leftists
Lol, you tankies are neither anti-war nor anti-imperialist. If you were you'd advocate for Russia to end the war they started.
Just like actual anti-war protestors demanded the US end the US and Vietnam wars, and not scold the Vietcong and Iraqi insurgents for figthing against the US.
>>

 No.455822

File: 1659462905480.jpg (83.67 KB, 1200x675, Tovarish the tankie engine.jpg)

>>455820
I receive your praise as a genuine socialist with gratitude, i forgive you your liberal vernacular, i know you can't help it.

The proxy war in the Ukraine could have been prevented if the US hadn't overthrown the Ukrainian government and started training the fasho proxy forces. It would have been easy and cheap to leave the Ukraine as a neutral country between power blocks, that would have been the way to preserve actually existing peace. Enforcing the Minsk agreements would have been a way to end the proxy war before it escalated into industrial warfare.

The Russians have made several overtures for a negotiated peace with realistic proposals (at least for the sensible factions that had an interest in keeping the peace)

All of that has been cast into the Wind and it looks like realistic and actually existing peace will come with a Russian peace dictate.

Your idea that we can only have piece on US imperial terms is just blackmail, it's not a realistic way to create actually existing peace.

In this war the wholesome rebels that are fighting against the evil Empire are the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republic militias. You can tell because they are allied with the communists not the fascists.
>>

 No.455823

>>455820
*protestors demanded the US end the Middle East
>>

 No.455825

>you should support russia and china blah blah blah
No go fuck yourself. I'm against capitalism in all its forms.
>>

 No.455827

>>455826
hahaha stupid orcs! Russian army is going to collapse soon, isn't it?
>mass desertions
>running out of fuel
>soldiers selling equipment for vodka
>most of the soldiers are conscripts with less than a week of training
>Ukraine's farmers are taking dozens of Russian tanks with their tractors
>Putin has cancer
Moscow will fall by Christmas and Russia will be known as East Ukraine.

SLAVA UKRAINI!!!!!!!
>>

 No.455828

File: 1659507641985.png (386.97 KB, 976x549, ClipboardImage.png)

>>455827
>war over by Christmas
This Ukraine conflict looks like it's going to be a decades long gorilla warfare, anon. Strap in. But yes, Russia entered a quagmire in Ukraine, a war of choice by Putin. And it doesn't look like it's going to end well for Russia. The only way for Russia to really conquer Ukraine like Putin wants is a general mobilization draft of the Russian population. But doing that is a big risk since all the railways that connect the non-Slav, eastern ethnic cannon fodder regions of the Russian Federation like Dagestan and Buryatia intersect at Moscow. And having hundreds of thousands or millions of armed, disgruntled conscripts being sent to fight a bloody, protracted, unpopular invasion (that only potentially benefits the oligarchs) stop at Moscow proper is a recipe for a storming of the Kremlin, Putin getting hung from a lamppost like Mussolini by those conscripts type situation.
>>

 No.455829

File: 1659511551558.jpg (37.6 KB, 564x564, 1654522516726.jpg)

>>455827
Have you seen the battle map?
Russia has like 2/3rds of eastern Ukraine.
I mean I don't support Russia or Ukraine. I'm antiwar cause I'm not retarded, but, I wouldn't write the world's 3rd largest super power off so quickly.
>>

 No.455830

>>455829
>Have you seen the battle map?
Russia has like 2/3rds of eastern Ukraine.
LOL tankie thinks colours on a map matter, as if it were a game of EUIV. Russia can't hold those territories. Ukrainians have begun their counter-attack on Kherson. HIMARS have destroyed nearly all of Russia's ammo. Ukraine is going to take back Donbas and Crimea. Zelenskyy said there's no surrender before then.
>>

 No.455831

>>455828
We are now once more at that stage of denial, because in territorial terms Russia appears to be making only small insignificant gains. It looks as if not much is going on. But in reality the Russians are conducting the most intense artillery shelling of the war yet, they are softening up the last fortified region in the Donbass. Ukrainian losses are probably higher now than in any of the previous battles. Once the Ukrainian positions are turned into mush, you will see a large push of infantry and armored divisions making big gains very rapidly. Probably 100k Ukrainian troops will be cut off from resupplies and will likely have to surrender.

What people like you don't understand is that Russia's goal is to destroy Ukrainian forces. And the Ukrainian military seems to be stupid enough to send all their fighters to die while attempting to hold positions under Russian artillery shelling, or maybe they are instructed to do so by their puppet masters in the US. What ever the cause, this will completely destroy any Ukrainian ability to mount any kind of attack after Russian military operations end. The big guerilla army you are talking about will not materialize because all the people that could potentially become guerilla troops are currently sacrificed as Ukrainian proxy forces on behalf of the US.

>Russia entered a quagmire in Ukraine, a war of choice by Putin

Great man theory of history bullshit. Wars don't happen on the whims of political leaders. This happened because of a geopolitical contest between the US and Russia. The US was clearly the instigator when they started this war in 2014 by conducting a color revolution regime change during the Euromaidan. The US tried to combine economic war (sanctions) and deployment of proxy forces. Their goal was to force Russia into a costly military confrontation with US controlled Ukrainian proxy forces while squeezing the Russian economy. And that backfired, because the Russian economy didn't break and now the Russians are also scoring military victories, while the western economies fall into recession.

By obscuring reality you generate support for prolonging a war that has already been lost. And the longer this goes on, the worse it's going to get (for the west).

I don't know how far the Russians are planning to go with this, but after all of this is done they will presumably open Ukrainian territory up to foreign investment (probably to countries they deem not hostile). I know that the Dprk has already made the offer to send people to help with the post-war reconstruction.
>>

 No.455832

>>455829
>I mean I don't support Russia or Ukraine. I'm antiwar cause I'm not retarded, but, I wouldn't write the world's 3rd largest super power off so quickly.
You are seeing clearly about military realities, but politically this is a proxy war between the US and Russia.
>>

 No.455834

>>455829
>>455830
>I'm antiwar cause I'm not retarded
>tankie
Could you please be nicer to eachother? That interaction made me lose a braincell.
>>

 No.455836

>>455834
Once the liberals have a slur they will not let go. They like this kind of social interaction.
But the spell can be broken, because it's just a word, we don't have to use it as a slur, we can also use it for praise or a term of endearment.
>>

 No.455841

>>455836
It used some much because tankies have zerg rushed the discourse and have to be beaten with a stick before they realize that they can't fool people by shouting the most.
>>

 No.455843

File: 1659558199592.jpg (63.54 KB, 1024x698, chad tankie.jpg)

>>

 No.455846

>>455843
There's like 3 tankies ITT all expressing how much they aren't bothered by the term kek.
>>

 No.455848

File: 1659565962970.jpg (1.65 MB, 2610x1796, tankies.jpg)

>>

 No.455853

>>455848
>liberated LPR
>hold 2/3 of Donbas
>land bridge to Crimea
>Ukrainian Black Sea access limited to Odessa, and even that is blockaded
<Ukraine is winning!
I wish I could be there to see your face when Russia liberates the DPR fully. Even if Russia took Odessa, land-locked Ukraine and established a land bridge to Transnistria, you liberals will still say Russia lost. You live in your own reality.
>>

 No.455855

>>455853
>I wish I could be there to see your face when Russia liberates the DPR fully.
That's never going to happen, Ukraine will just spam HIMARs until Russia goes broke. Which is going to be pretty damn soon.
>>

 No.455856

>>455848
Also I found it funny how for the "Russia is doing badly" picture, you chose the one of the happy and content based nostalgic Mongolian. I mean, even when you try to make Russia look bad you fail, because you libs think non-white = bad. It's hilarious.
>>

 No.455857

>>455855
>Ukraine will just spam HIMARs
they have 8 of them LOL
>ghost of kiev
>St. Javelin
>NLAW
>Bayraktar
>M270
>HIMARS
>???
What is the next Wunderwaffe that is going to destroy Russia?
>>

 No.455858

>>455857
>ghost of kiev
>St. Javelin
>NLAW
>Bayraktar
>M270
>HIMARS
Imagine equating several actual weapons systems with the ghost of Kiev
>>

 No.455859

>>455858
Ghost of Kyiv is/was real. He was shot down after he took down something like 40 Russian planes and helicopters. This was confirmed by the Ukrainian MoD, you stupid Russian troll.
>>

 No.455862

File: 1659588928958.png (548.34 KB, 1136x852, ClipboardImage.png)

>>455857
Ukraine has 16 HIMARS. Russia has 0
>>

 No.455863

>>455862
>16 HIMARS
>spread out over 3000km of front line
Russia is finished.
>>

 No.455864

There is an opinion with tankies that absolutely fascinates me. The dual position of Ukraine being such a threat to Russia and the belief that the Ukrainian army hasn't got a prayer of holding on in this war. It's almost like they just echo the propaganda mindlessly.
>>

 No.455865

>>455864
hahaha more projection. It's you libs who think that Russia is a threat to Europe and at the same time being so incompetent they can't beat Ukraine.

Ukraine has 44 million people, they can mobilise an army in the millions. NATO and allies are happy to arm and equip such an army. Ukraine alone is not a threat because they are a failed state. Ukraine propped up and armed by the West, however, is a threat.

In a few years, when Ukraine declares itself the Fourth Reich, you're going to look pretty dumb. Of course, you're going to pretend you never supported Ukraine. Such a pathetic political life.
>>

 No.455866

>>455776
>I'm not so rabid tankie ideologue that I think that NATO can't inadvertently do the right thin sometimes.
like what?
>>

 No.455867

>>455864
Maximum hehe
>>

 No.455868

>>455866
I already said helping Ukraine was one. I'm drawing a blank on what else. Regardless, sometimes people and organizations do the right thing for the wrong reasons.
>>

 No.455869

>>455866
>like what?
They threw a bunch of money at Poland.
>>

 No.455870

>>455863
In a drawn out war of attrition where they are fighting on foreign soil, yes.
>>

 No.455871

>>455868
you think arming Nazis in Ukraine is a good thing?
https://www.redstreetjournal.com/p/cia1
>>

 No.455872

File: 1659592273011.jpg (58.29 KB, 740x462, night2.jpg)

>>455865
Niqqa Russia's government has more fascists in it than Ukraine.
>>

 No.455873

File: 1659592296827.jpg (109.28 KB, 552x516, 1657170044598.jpg)

>>

 No.455874

>>455871
Do you think Ukraine's government is composed entirely of Nazis?
>>

 No.455875

>>455872
>posts a picture of Putin with Soviet veterans who have a bunch of medals
So the Soviets were the fascists all along?
>>

 No.455876

>>455875
>Ignores the fascist gang leader who runs the largest outlaw MC in Asia.
>>

 No.455877

>>455874
There's an old saying: if there's 9 people and a Nazi sitting at the table, there's 10 Nazis sitting at the table. The fact that the government made an explicit Neo-Nazi formation a part of their Armed Forces tells you everything you need to know really. Endless videos and pictures of Nazis in Ukraine are just icing on the cake.

You posted Putin with his biker gang twice now. Is that all you could find, lol? I can dig up dozens of articles fro Western sources published before the war that talk about the Nazi problem in Ukraine.
>>

 No.455878

>>455876
and? You still haven't explained how the existence of a biker gang means Russia is fascist. There were biker gangs in US during Obama's term, does that mean your precious Obama was a fascist? (he was, but not for that reason)
>>

 No.455879

>>455875
>There's an old saying: if there's 9 people and a Nazi sitting at the table, there's 10 Nazis sitting at the table.
So following this logic all of Russia's government is fascist because Putin sits with Night Wolves at least once a year at their birthday party.
>Endless videos and pictures of Nazis in Ukraine are just icing on the cake.
And I can pull up endless evidence to the scope and reach of "The Night Wolves". Protip, they are the biggest outlaw biker gang in Asia, they are Putin's brownshirts, and because of their close ties to Putin, they are above the law.
At least Ukraine was using Nazis as cannon fodder.
>>

 No.455880

>>455878
>and? You still haven't explained how the existence of a biker gang means Russia is fascist.
Uhhhhh, they're Putin's personal brownshirts and like all outlaw biker gangs, are fash. They're peers with shit like special forces as for as access to Kremlin power.
>>

 No.455881

File: 1659593235207.gif (44.41 KB, 960x600, anime2.gif)

>>455878
>If a group associates with Nazis anywhere at anytime, they are also Nazis.
<The most powerful man in Russia uses a fash biker gang as his royal guard.
YOU HAVEN'T PROVEN RUSSIA IS FASH
>>

 No.455882

>>

 No.455883

>>455878
>There were biker gangs in US during Obama's term,
Pretty sure that Obama used the secret service to run his security detail, and not fash bikers that rape, kill, steal, extort, and intimidate proles.
>>

 No.455884

>>

 No.455885

>>455879
Russia has Night Wolves
>inb4 Wagner, who are Nazis cause Wagner was Hitler's favourite composer
Ukraine has:
>Azov
>OUN
>UPA
>Pravi Sektor
>Svoboda
>C14
>Tornado
>Kraken
>Aidar
>Feikorps
>and on and on and on
It really is no contest.
>>

 No.455886

>>

 No.455887

File: 1659594158281.jpg (84.88 KB, 620x413, wolves3.jpg)

>>455885
None of those groups comes close to the scale of The Night Wolves.
Regardless, you tankies are once again moving the goalposts. At first you said Ukraine was tainted by the presence of Nazis in their gov, and now you're saying since they have more fash in their gov which is falsethan Russia, that's what makes them bad kek.
>>

 No.455888

>>455885
And how many times did Zelensky party with any of those Nazis groups?
>>

 No.455889

File: 1659594593960.jpg (180.69 KB, 960x1280, 1654630488747.jpg)

>>455881
I could list dozens of Ukrainian neo-nazi formations and you'd still say
>bUt WhAt AbOuT PuTiN's BiKeRs??
https://www.rferl.org/a/russian_neonazi_sentences_welcomed/24263471.html
Russia is cracking down and banning neo-nazis. Can you say the same thing about Ukraine? No, because Zelenskyy said that when people like Bandera it is "cool".

Did you forget about the time Ukrainian Nazis burned unionised workers alive in Odessa? We communists remember.
https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/ukrainian-rightists-burn-alive-39-at-odessa-union-building/
>>

 No.455890

File: 1659594874928-0.png (1.03 MB, 660x1045, 1654921928030-1.png)

File: 1659594874928-1.jpg (170.92 KB, 960x1049, 1652646046434.jpg)

File: 1659594874928-2.jpg (59.6 KB, 720x671, 1652208120450-3.jpg)

>>455887
>None of those groups comes close to the scale of The Night Wolves.
There's really no talking to you.
>AZOV is part of the Ukrainian military
>Svoboda is a party in the Parliament
Ukraine has an explicitly Nazi music festival every year. Nazis around Europe make a pilgrimage there and engage in neo-pagan rituals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asgardsrei_festival
>>

 No.455891

>>455885
>I could list dozens of Ukrainian neo-nazi formations and you'd still say
>bUt WhAt AbOuT PuTiN's BiKeRs??
Well yes, because the influence of a fash group is measured by their power, not by how many separate little groups there are.
Do you not understand that one really big thing is still larger than 10 little things even though 1 is a lower number that 10?
>Russia is cracking down and banning neo-nazis. Can you say the same thing about Ukraine?
Lol, if that were true The Night Wolves wouldn't be higher up in the Putin's gov than most of his military lol.
>Did you forget about the time Ukrainian Nazis burned unionised workers alive in Odessa? We communists remember.
Lol, you're own article said they were Russian shills.
>>

 No.455892

File: 1659594994941.mp4 (5.16 MB, 618x480, azrnq6fd2wq81.mp4)

>>455888
because Zelenskyy is a cokehead and the Nazis do amphetamines, it would never work.
>>

 No.455893

>>455891
>you're own article said they were Russian shills.
What? Can you not read? Literally the first sentence:
>Some 1,000 Ukrainian rightists, led by the notorious Right Sector, surrounded, stormed, and burned the House of Trade Unions in Odessa last Friday, killing 39 pro-Russia demonstrators in the building.
Then it goes on:
>Many of those who attacked and burned the building wore swastikas and other fascist insignias, according to observers.

>The right wingers who burned the union headquarters had already set another pro-Russian encampment in Odessa afire. That encampment consisted of rows of tents in Odessa’s Kulikova Field Square.


>The videos and photos showed Ukrainian riot police standing there doing nothing to stop or prevent the violence.


>Right Sector has bragged about its role in the killings on line and on YouTube:


<“At first we broke through the side, and then we came through the main entrance,” said one pro-Kiev rightist who identified as a member of the group.


>As the building burned some of the pro-Kiev activists said on Twitter that “Colorado beetles are being roasted up in Odessa,” using a derogatory term for the St. George’s ribbons worn by many of the anti-Kiev government demonstrators.


This is getting exhausting. You simply refuse to read or see any information that might contradict your view, because you know your position is fragile and it relies on you ignoring uncomfortable facts.
>>

 No.455894

>>455891
Fact is, one side is waving swastikas, the other is waving hammers and sickles. You chose to support the side under a swastika. I think you will have an epiphany in the future and when you look back on this you will cringe at yourself.
>>

 No.455895

>>455890
>There's really no talking to you.
Do you not understand english? The night wolves are the largest outlaw MC in Russia with direct support of putin.
They run rackets and even whole villages. They are far more wealthy than any Nazi group that was present in the Ukraine gov.
>Ukraine has an explicitly Nazi music festival every year. Nazis around Europe make a pilgrimage there and engage in neo-pagan rituals.
The Night Wolves' criminal enterprise makes them so wealthy that their yearly birthday party is the largest outdoor event in all of Russia.
>>

 No.455896

>>455893
>What? Can you not read?
Can you? It says that they were pro-Russian. That's probably why they were killed. And uh, Putin himself was installed by the CIA to prevent Communists from taking office in Moscow. Are you really telling me you think Putin has never killed any socialists?
>This is getting exhausting. You simply refuse to read or see any information that might contradict your view,
I never denied the presence of fash in Ukraine's gov. What I proved is that it is a far greater problem in Russia than in the Ukraine. This totally destroys the moral authority you tankies try to use to justify the invasion.
>>

 No.455897

>>455894
Waving swastikas is nowhere materially as significant as globe spanning rackets that impoverish and oppress proles like the Night Wolves do.
>>

 No.455898

>>455892
Zelensky knows how to get down, unlike uptight fash.
>>

 No.455899

>>455893
Lol, once again all tankies can do is hold Ukraine to some ridiculous purity standard while denying, diminishing, gas lighting and outright lying about any criticism of themselves and Russia.
Azov, and most of the Nazi groups in Ukraine were formed around 2014 right after the Crimea invasion. Russian aggression is what lead the Ukrainian government to turn to the fash. Doesn't justify it, but does show Russia a having a lot of culpability and completely destroys their narrative about Ukraine being a Nazi state.
>>

 No.455900

>>455896
>It says that they were pro-Russian.
Therefore they deserved to be burned alive? You fucking liberals are deranged. I don't know if you're trolling or if you're serious, but it's obvious we're not going to find common ground here.
>What I proved is that it is a far greater problem in Russia than in the Ukraine.
No, you didn't. You posted a picture of Putin with a member of a biker gang.

I looked them up, because until now I took your claims about them at face value.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Wolves
I don't see anything about them being overtly fascist or neo-nazi. They also like Stalin and celebrate Soviet victory over Nazi Germany. Does that make them fascist?

I still can't get over the fact that you dismissed people being burnt alive as OK because the people were pro-Russian. Is that really the kind of person you want to be?
>>

 No.455901

>>455900
>I don't see anything about them being overtly fascist or neo-nazi.
All outlaw biker gangs are fash. Do you not understand what an outlaw biker gang is?
>They also like Stalin
A lot of fash like Stalin, really says more about him than anything.
>>

 No.455902

>>455900
>I still can't get over the fact that you dismissed people being burnt alive as OK
Niqqa, if you stupid enough to be a stooge for a Russia coup than you're going to get retaliated against. You want me to feel sorry for people working for Russian imperialism?
>>

 No.455903

>>455900
>I don't see anything about them being overtly fascist or neo-nazi.
<The Night Wolves soon began to go more mainstream—in August of 1991, members of the motorcycle club even helped man anti-tank barricades around Russia’s parliament buildings to block an attempted coup by Communist hardliners against Gorbachev. The undisputed leader of the Wolves, Alexander “the Surgeon” Zaldostanov, received a medal for these efforts from Boris Yeltsin.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/an-evening-with-the-night-wolves/
Lol
>>

 No.455904

>>455900
>I don't see anything about them being overtly fascist or neo-nazi.
<Several Russian journalists, however, have identified another member, named Alexey Weitz, as most responsible for the Night Wolves’ turnaround. A former theater actor, Weitz joined the club in the mid-2000s while also working for a nationalist think tank, and later became an apparatchik for Right Cause, a political party with a self-proclaimed “patriotic bias” that is supported by the Kremlin.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/putins-angels-inside-russias-most-infamous-motorcycle-club-56360/
lol again
>>

 No.455905

>>455900
>I don't see anything about them being overtly fascist or neo-nazi.
>An ardent nationalist, Zaldostanov tries to evoke the spirit of romantic imperialism and conquest modeled on Russia’s famous Cossack horsemen, as well as a countercultural rebelliousness designed to appeal to Russian Millennials and youth.
>Zaldostanov once suggested “death to faggots” would be an appropriate motto for the “anti–color revolution” group he founded with the ultranationalist politician Nikolai Starikov and others.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/08/russia-is-co-opting-angry-young-men/568741/
This is just a good article overall on how Putin is using Right wing extremist groups as proxies.
>>

 No.455906

File: 1659609543175.jpg (283.16 KB, 800x792, 1653287415914.jpg)

>>455903
They defended the Liberal counterrevolution against the evil, Soviet tankies. Why don't you like them?
>>455904
>>455905
I find it funny how you think nationalism makes a biker gang fascist, but Ukraine allowing ONLY Ukrainian nationalist parties and banning all leftist opposition is not fascist.

You've made up your mind. It's telling how you see the St. George colours and the Russian flag and think "fascists!" yet when you look at Ukrainians waving swastikas, using Nazi rhetoric and celebrating neo-nazis as heroes you think "that's not fascism".

There's no helping you. I'm only glad that Russia is going to DESTROY what's left of the Ukrop nazi army and has bombed the Fourth Reich 20 years back, making them incapable of waging war.
>>

 No.455907

>>455906
THEY ARE A FUCKING CRIMINAL OUTLAW BIKER GANG
They are not some secret exception to all the other fascist outlaw biker gangs in the world. And they are a part of the diaspora of right wing Russian proxy with direct motherfucking state support
>>

 No.455908

>>455906
The leader of the Night Wolves says he modeled his gang after the Hell's Angels
>>

 No.455909

liberals calling amnesty international russian puppets after they find Ukraine has been deliberating placing weapons in civilian areas
https://nitter.net/amnesty/status/1555102962623594496
>>

 No.455910

File: 1659631518527-0.jpg (6.34 MB, 4500x3263, 1646401185030.jpg)

File: 1659631518527-1.mp4 (5.42 MB, 1280x720, ukrainian_antisemite_Dmitr….mp4)

File: 1659631518527-2.mp4 (902.65 KB, 848x464, Arestovich.MP4)

>>455907
>>455908
How does that prove they are fascist and by extension Putin and by extension Russia? You're grasping at straws here. Is every "criminal outlaw biker gang" fascist? What makes them fascist? The fact they do crime?

I'm sure it all makes sense in your head, but I am telling you now that it doesn't make sense once you say it out loud.

In every picture you've posted about the biker gang, I see a biker gang. I don't see swastikas, I don't see nazi runes, I don't see the Sonnenrad. What I do see is the St. George colours and the Russian flag.

>pic

list of Ukrainian "ultranationalist" formations
I count about a hundred of them.
<bUt wHaT aBoUt tHe NiGhT WoLvEs?!?
I don't know why you refuse to see that Ukraine has a fascist and neo-nazi problem.
>2nd video, one of A3OV founders saying it's good that Zelenskyy is a jew because now no one can accuse them of being Nazis
I guess they fooled you, huh?

I just realised something. You think you're winning this argument, just like you think Ukraine is winning the war. LMAO!
>>

 No.455912

File: 1659633912823.jpg (68.56 KB, 718x404, 0710_putinbikers_s.jpg)

>>455910
>How does that prove they are fascist and by extension Putin and by extension Russia?
Here's a description of Hitler's brownshirts.
<The SA were the Sturmabteilung, meaning 'assault division'. The group were also known as the Brownshirts or Storm Troopers. It was a violent paramilitary group attached to the Nazi Party in pre-World War Two Germany.
<The SA was instrumental in the Nazi’s rise to power yet played a diminished role during the Second World War. The Brownshirts are infamous for their operation outside of the law and their violent intimidation of Germany’s leftists and Jewish population.

<However, it was the SA’s thuggish vigilantism, independence from the regular army (which caused hostility between the two), and anti-capitalist sentiments of its leader, Ernst Röhm, that ultimately caused its undoing.


<the SA functioned as a ‘security’ force at Nazi rallies


The Night Wolves are a paramilitary force (they helped in the invasion of Crimea) that operate outside the law, act as both security for Putin and as shocktroopers against his opponents.

Apparently the only criteria for you as to whether someone is fash is if

>In every picture you've posted about the biker gang, I see a biker gang.


And they are not simply a biker gang,
THEY ARE AN OUTLAW BIKER GANGE
A criminal enterprise, no different that the Mafia, or Mexican Cartel. They actually do real crime like murder and human trafficking.

>list of Ukrainian "ultranationalist" formations

I count about a hundred of them.
LMAO 99% of that is just Ukrainian regular military and police.
>I don't know why you refuse to see that Ukraine has a fascist and neo-nazi problem.
I said several times ITT thread they did. My point was that Russia has an even worse one and therefore have no moral authority.
>I just realised something. You think you're winning this argument,
Niqqa, all you've done is plug your ears and deny that the largest criminal biker gang in Asia that act as Putin's brownshirts, is somehow not fash well because they very flew an swastikas
>just like you think Ukraine is winning the war. LMAO!
Just two more weeks right.
>>

 No.455913

>>455912
*Apparently the only criteria for you as to whether someone is fash is if they fly a swastika.
*they never flew an swastikas
>>

 No.455914

>>455909
The libs are saying that the Ukrainians are putting weapons in civilian areas because they are being targeted by the Russians.
>>

 No.455915

File: 1659634764013.gif (2.2 MB, 2000x1125, anime6.gif)

>>455910
>I guess they fooled you, huh?
I'm not fooled by anything. Your argument is childish. You think that an full fledged invasion that displaces millions of people, destroys billions in property, and that has already murdered 10 of thousands of innocent civilians and children is wholly justified because you can find some Nazis in the Ukrainian government.
Again you sound like burgers during the Iraq War, thinking that Saddamn's allege possession of nukes gave the US carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they wanted.
Not how it works bud. And Russia is a paper tiger, so they're going to get their shit pushed in by this heinous war.
>>

 No.455916

>>455915
ok troony fagime fan
>>

 No.455917

>>455915
And this doesn't even touch on the hypocrisy of fash operating at the highest levels of Putin's regime.
>>

 No.455919

>>455912
>LMAO 99% of that is just Ukrainian regular military and police.
NO SHIT SHERLOCK THAT'S THE FUCKING PROBLEM. The former commander of Azov was made the police chief of Kiev. They have neo-nazis. patrolling the streets and "keeping order". They are tying people (Russians and Roma) to poles and whipping them in the street for petty thievery. They are living their racist dream.

DO YOU GET IT NOW?
>>

 No.455920

>>455912
>>455919
>The newly appointed police chief for the Ukrainian province in which Kiev is located came under fire on Monday after it was alleged that he had past ties with a neo-Nazi organization.

>Vadim Troyan was appointed to head the Kiev Oblast regional police on October 31 by Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, who feted him on Facebook as a respected commander whose like would form “the basis of a new national police force.”


>Prior to his appointment he was deputy commander of the volunteer Azov Battalion, which has been engaged in combat operations against pro-Russian separatists in the country’s east. Kiev, while within the district, is an independent jurisdiction.


https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/kiev-regional-police-head-accused-of-neo-nazi-ties-381559
>>

 No.455922

>>455912
>Just two more weeks right.
What is your prediction? How do you see this ending?
>inb4 Ukraine kicking out Russia out of Donbas and Crimean, Putin dying of cancer, balkanisation of Russia
>>

 No.455923

File: 1659639256198.gif (2.21 KB, 256x240, felix.gif)

>>455920
Oh wow! Police chief of Kiev. That's really equivalent to Putin who controls the largest country on earth.
And your own article says he's in trouble for his Neo-Nazi ties. Really sounds like Ukraine is the resurrection of the 3rd Reich where public officials get pilloried for being Nazis.
I NEVER DENIED THERE WAS A NAZI PROBLEM IN UKRAINE
Do you get it? You can't destroy the lives of millions of innocent civilians of some bad people in the gov,
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOUR OWN GOV HAS WAY MORE
>>455922
Ukraine is going to be Russia's Iraq, except, yes, it will probably lead some form of major collapse. Maybe not balkanization, but maybe China swipes some of their eastern territory. At a minimum they'll lose hegemony over Africa to China.
>>

 No.455924

>>455922
>>inb4 Ukraine kicking out Russia out of Donbas and Crimean,
They are, the HIMARS are immune to Russian artillery. NATO wants to make Russia bleed and Ukraine wants revenge. They'll give Ukraine as many HIMARs munitions as they need until Dombass is taken back.
This invasion is a real "Pearl Harbor" moment. Putin fucked up and woke the beast, and now he's going to be steamrolled along with his military being revealed to be completely retarded.
The consequences for this war will reverberate with Russia for generations. It will unironically set off a new era of burger hegemony because now everyone knows Russia systems ain't shit.
>>

 No.455925

File: 1659639724230.jpg (136.53 KB, 640x400, stop and think.jpg)

>>455923
Russia had hegemony over Africa?
>>

 No.455926

>>455922
Yes, Russia and China are both trying to imperialism Africa right now. Do try to keep up.
Burger military setup AFRICOM over a decade ago to try to counter it.
>>

 No.455927

>>455922
*imperialize
>>

 No.455928

Who cares about any of that moralfaggotry though?

This war comes from the US being progressively more butthurt and militaristic towards BRICS+ as they get capitalist competition to their hegemony.
There is no lesser evil here because there is no choice to make. Either the US/NATO will successfully subjugate BRICS and reset history to the 90s or they will not and we live in interesting multipolartimes. That is, either history progresses or it doesn't.

What you think about Putin and the heckin' valid Ukrainerinos doesn't change anything at all. No anti war movement short of revolution could either(and commies taking over in Russia would still need to fight NATO so do the math), the contradictions that brought this conflict would generate a need for a different front and pretext for the US to partition the world.
>>

 No.455929

>>455928
>Invade Ukraine
>Oh no look at NATO subjugating Russia!
Kek, the amount of cognitive dissonance tankies have never ceases to amaze me.
>>

 No.455930

>>455928
Russia has been memeing that Ukraine is Nazi to justify the invasion so it is kind of important.
>>

 No.455935

>>455930
>Russia has been memeing that Ukraine is Nazi to justify the invasion so it is kind of important.
No it's not. It's just part of the pretext. Don't get me wrong, Russia *was* compelled to act in 2014 by Ukraine sending deathsquads of literal Nazis and all manner of psychos to terrorize the southeast. But that was also a calculated play by NATO, which wanted to carry out the separation of Europe and the sanction war before. So they gave a push to Crimea to get a solid foothold and helped the LDPR (and all but took control of their isntitutions) more covertly.

It's just that Russia is a lot more prepared now. So when Ukraine started making proxy noises abount Minsk2 and how stronk they were with the new NATO weapons, Russia took the initiative. This is still a play of two ofc, both sides know very well whats going on and it has nothing to do with Ukrainians , their clay, their crops, their coal, their gas, or their lives. For example just as the US started calling the date of the invasion, the UN reports that the Donbass got quite the shelling, increasing in intensity as Russia failed to meet the set dates.

If Zelesnkyy wasn't a NATO puppet he could have pursued diplomacy and Minsk2 because Russia/BRICS have no rush, they can wait while the US hegemony fades and the dollar weakens, its the US/NATO that needed to provoke a cold war. And since Russia knows this, and the previous developments show that they will go for it, they just played their cards in the most advantageous way for their interests.

And hey if Ukraine doesn't have the very very entrenched Nazis in all of their institutions and private enterprises , as the *western media* was showing during Poroshenko, then that's easy, they only have to denounce Bandera and show the thousands upon thousands of literal Nazis that have been purged, along all the politicians, the oligarchs and their militias and such.

Surely they did that as soon as Zelesnkyy's party took power right? Or was just the media shutting up and pretending everything is fine once their man was in?
it can be true(to an extent jfc Russian propaganda paints it like they are fighting WW2 again) and also a pretext.
>>

 No.455936

File: 1659672192906.gif (353 KB, 196x182, anime4.gif)

>>455935
>Don't get me wrong, Russia *was* compelled to act in 2014 by Ukraine sending deathsquads of literal Nazis and all manner of psychos to terrorize the southeast. But that was also a calculated play by NATO,
>muh NATO boggie man
NATO is responsible for a lot of things, but it's not responsible for Russia taking territory away from Ukraine TWICE.
>It's just that Russia is a lot more prepared now. So when Ukraine started making proxy noises abount Minsk2 and how stronk they were with the new NATO weapons, Russia took the initiative.
>EVERYTHING WOULD BE FINE IF UKRAINE WOULD LET THEMSELVES BE FUCKED OVER BY RUSSIA.
Tankies and Republican troglodytes keep memeing this talking point but it doesn't make a lick of sense.
>the UN reports that the Donbass got quite the shelling, increasing in intensity as Russia failed to meet the set dates.
Yes, well that's what happens to separatists trying to snatch away land for an imperialist power.
>If Zelesnkyy wasn't a NATO puppet he could have pursued diplomacy and Minsk2 because Russia/BRICS have no rush,
>If Zelensky would have just acted as a Russian puppet everything would have been fine.
Tankies are just booty mad that Ukraine is standing up to their bullying after taking it for so long.
>And hey if Ukraine doesn't have the very very entrenched Nazis in all of their institutions and private enterprises , as the *western media* was showing during Poroshenko, then that's easy, they only have to denounce Bandera and show the thousands upon thousands of literal Nazis that have been purged, along all the politicians, the oligarchs and their militias and such.
If Russia were so concerned about fascists they would have addressed The Night Wolves, The Wagner group, and the several other Right Wing proxies they're using right now.
No amount of Nazi purging will satisfy Russia.
And Russia isn't protecting anyone from Nazis since they're doing all the killing, raping and destruction themselves.
>>

 No.455937

File: 1659675036729.jpg (67.62 KB, 620x733, wowzers.jpg)

>>455936
>And Russia isn't protecting anyone from Nazis since they're doing all the killing, raping and destruction themselves.
I can't even take this anon seriously anymore.
>>

 No.455938

>>455936
>well that's what happens to separatists trying to snatch away land for an imperialist power.
Do you support Rojava, or do you think Syria should take back north Syria?

Do you support Kosovo independence, or do you think Serbia should take it back?

Do you support Catalonian independence, or do you agree with the Spanish government crackdown?
>>

 No.455939

>>455936
>BUT WHAT ABOUT THE NIGHT WOLVES??
Let's say Night Wolves cancel OUN and Wagner cancels Azov. There's another dozen neo-nazi formations you have to find an equivalence for in Russia. But wait, there's more
>Russia has a communist party in the Duma, Ukraine has banned the Communist party
>Ukraine has Svoboda party in Rada, an openly neo-nazi party, Russia has…?
>Ukraine banned all languages except Ukrainian, Russia is a multicultural and multilingual federation
>>

 No.455940

>>455937
What could the Nazis have done that the invading Russian force hasn't already done 1000x.
This is another cope of tankies, all the horrific violence is completely 100% justified with zero immorality.
You think it's slick to just start arguing with that solipsistic assumption but even children see through such lame rhetoric tricks.
>>

 No.455941

File: 1659679069934.gif (934.28 KB, 320x240, butt.gif)

>>455938
>Do you support Rojava, or do you think Syria should take back north Syria?
Yes, do you think Rojava was because of NATO imperialism, and not due to centuries of oppression by Turkey and Syria?
>Do you support Catalonian independence, or do you agree with the Spanish government crackdown?
Again, what imperialist program does the independence of Catalonia serve? Why do tankies keep pretending that no one can see that this is primarily, read that word again, PRIMARILY Russian imperialist expansion. Doesn't mean there aren't other motivations, or that everyone is a Putinbot, but the seizure of Dombas and Crimea and the current invasion are PRIMARILY that of Russian imperialist ambitions.
>>

 No.455942

>>455939
The Night Wolves have direct access to Putin. They operate at the highest level of the government, control criminal rackets throughout all of Russia. And even have a multitude of corporations running anything from security to selling t-shirts.
Which fucking Ukrainian Nazi unit has anything approaching that kind of power.
>>

 No.455943

>>455939
>>Russia has a communist party in the Duma, Ukraine has banned the Communist party
Niqqa, Putin was literally sent by the CIA to help Yelsin stay in power and keep Communists out of that office. LMAO.
>>

 No.455944

>>455938
Oh I'm sorry, which countries did Rojava and Catalonia invade exactly?
>>455939
They didn't ban Russian, they just made Ukrainian the offical language. This is all after Crimea and Dombass, Russia has been covertly infiltrating and fostering descent for their imperial ambitions. But you all wanna cry about Ukraine doing the smallest things to defend itself.
All while crying about NATO aggression that never happened.
>>

 No.455945

>>455944
>This is all after Crimea and Dombass, Russia has been covertly infiltrating and fostering descent for their imperial ambitions.
Elaborate so we can laugh at you.
>>

 No.455946

File: 1659682107277.jpg (83.26 KB, 720x720, ljaexya3nla91.jpg)

>>455940
>the horrific violence is completely 100% justified with zero immorality.
>zero immorality
why is it always about morals to you libs? that's where the misunderstanding is coming from, you have an idealist view of the world, whereas the people you're arguing against have a materialist view.
>>455941
>do you think Rojava was because of NATO imperialism, and not due to centuries of oppression by Turkey and Syria?
do you think LPR and DPR were because of Russian imperialism, and not due to years of oppression by Ukraine?
>the seizure of Dombas and Crimea and the current invasion are PRIMARILY that of Russian imperialist ambitions.
that "primarily" is doing a lot of work.

You also didn't comment on Kosovo? Too uncomfortable? You're being disingenuous, you focus on one thing you can respond (MUH NIGHT WOLVES!!!) ignoring everything else.
>>455942
Svoboda party is A PART OF the government. Let me know when the Night Wolves get a representative in the Duma. AZOV is a part of the Ukrainian military, let me know when the Night Wolves get their own battalion.
>>455943
>Niqqa, Putin was literally sent by the CIA to help Yelsin stay in power and keep Communists out of that office. LMAO.
So why don't you like Putin again? After all, he kept the evil Soviets out of power? You apparently hate the Soviets more than Nazis.
>>455944
>I'm sorry, which countries did Rojava and Catalonia invade exactly?
Which countries did LPR and DPR invade?
>They didn't ban Russian, they just made Ukrainian the offical language.
LOL!!!
>they didn't ban Russian, they said you have to speak only Ukrainian
They banned Russian from being taught in schools and instruction being in Russian. Ukrainians speak a mix of Russian and Ukrainian, in the east they speak Russian. They wanted to cleanse Russian out of Ukraine. I bet you think what China is doing to Uyghurs is "genocide", but when Ukraine wants to erase a language spoken by millions in their own country, that's perfectly fine.
>This is all after Crimea and Dombass,
HOLY SHIT. You don't even know the order in which events happened. Your knowledge of this conflict comes from liberal media alone, no wonder you have no idea what's happening.
>Yanukovich suggests new elections
>Nazis say no and do Euromaidan
>New government comes to power, picked by Victoria Nuland and the US State Department
>New government bans Russian, makes instruction in Russian illegal
>Russians in the East protest
>Ukrainian oligarchs form private militaries, recruiting neo-nazis from ranks of ultras and football hooligans
>Neo-Nazis sent to the East to quell protests
>Russia reads the writing on the wall, takes Crimea (which is 90% Russian btew and had a referendum on joining Russia) before the Neo-Nazis are a stone throw away from Russia
>Neo-Nazis start killing Russians because they are better armed
>Russians of LDPR defend themselves
>AZOV, et al. push Russians all the way to the last 1/3 of LDPR claimed territory, continuously shelling civilians
>this goes on for 8 years
>Minsk II gets signed, with help of Germany and France
>Zelenskyy goes to Donbas, demands to be taken seriously "I'm a 40yo man!!", gets laughed at by the Nazis and is sent packing to Kiev
>Ukraine neo-nazis don't respect the ceasefire, begin an artillery campaign, hitting nearly 200 targets in Donbas days before Russian invasion
>Russia invades and starts liberating Donbas from the Nazis
>while crying about NATO aggression that never happened.
I posted a picture of NATO expansion after fall of Soviet Union. In the laat 20 years NATO has bombed Serbia, invaded Afganistan and destroyed Libya. How can Russia feel safe with NATO at its border?
>>455945
I'll elaborate for him… khm

PUTIN HAS NIGHT WOLVES ON SPEED DIAL!!! NIGHT WOLVES NIGHT WOLVES NIGHT WOLVES. Night Wolves are a biker gang that wears BLACK and the Russian flag. This means they are super fascist and way worse than the Ukrainians who openly say they are fighting for the Fourth Reich. NIGHT WOLVES NIGHT WOLVES NIGHT WOLVES

heh destroyed… nothing personnel kid
>>

 No.455947

>>455942
>Which fucking Ukrainian Nazi unit has anything approaching that kind of power.
The ones which can threaten to kill the president of their country on multiple occasions and make him do what they say.
>>

 No.455948

Why are leftists on here so focused on killing Nazis in a country they don't even border, instead of you know, theory, or capitalist relations?
>>

 No.455949

>>455946
Your timeline is still incomplete. During Maidan coup there was a Nazi massacre of Yanukovych sympathizers in the Kiev Trade Unions Building, and then not long after that another massacre of a bus of pro-government protestors returning to their homes in Crimea. This sparked enough outrage to begin the Crimean referendum on rejoining Russia. In spite of attempts to delegitimize the referendum before it was even held–including the OSCE rejecting invitations to observe it–it still had dozens of international observer groups and exit polls demonstrated no significant fraud in the resulting overwhelming support for rejoining Russia.

Anyone who would have you believe that Crimea "belonged" to Ukraine, and that Russia simply took it away from them is a spooked nationalist with zero respect for the self-determination of the people who actually fucking live here.
>>

 No.455950

>>455949
the people who actually fucking live there*

Just a typo, not a Freudian slip.
>>

 No.455951

>>455946
>why is it always about morals to you libs? that's where the misunderstanding is coming from, you have an idealist view of the world, whereas the people you're arguing against have a materialist view.
Tankies are the one's that scream about Nazis anytime anyone criticizes their war.
So it's really just a response to the moralizing they're doing.
>do you think LPR and DPR were because of Russian imperialism,
YES
>and not due to years of oppression by Ukraine?
LMAO, what oppression. Shelling insurgents egged on by Russia?
>You also didn't comment on Kosovo? Too uncomfortable? You're being disingenuous, you focus on one thing you can respond (MUH NIGHT WOLVES!!!) ignoring everything else.
No, I just don't know enough on it to comment on it authoritatively.
>Svoboda party is A PART OF the government.
Yes I know, Ukraine has sinned. Doesn't make the invasion justified.
>Let me know when the Night Wolves get a representative in the Duma.
Lol, oh okay, I guess since you think there's no sitting oligarchs in the Duma they don't have influence on the Russian gov either.
>So why don't you like Putin again?
Because he illegally invaded another country killing thousands. Is that really so hard to understand?
>After all, he kept the evil Soviets out of power?
So why do you lick his boots? Serious question.
>You apparently hate the Soviets more than Nazis.
I'm against all imperialism. And the Russia=/=Soviet Union, tankies keep implying this out of sheer cope.
>Which countries did LPR and DPR invade?
They worked with an invader. And they are not independent under Russia kek, they're getting thrown into this meat grinder and they ain't happy about it.
>They banned Russian from being taught in schools and instruction being in Russian.
Yes, that's not the same as banning the language outright. And this is after a long history of Russification, two insurgencies that lead to territorial loses and an impeding invasion that we are now living though.
>HOLY SHIT. You don't even know the order in which events happened.
Oh STFU, it was all during an attempted Russian takeover of yet more Ukrainian land.
The bottom line is that Ukraine already suffered two imperialist incursions by Russia. And Russia was using covert means to undermine the Ukrainian gov and foment dissent. That aggression is why Ukraine did what it did, not because of some imaginary pogrom that exists only in your tankie head.
This Russian invasion has taken more lives than Ukrainian Nazis ever could hope to. STFU you bloodthirsty little imperialist. You are a coward, only talk tough online, and are about to get your comeuppance in this war.
>>

 No.455952

File: 1659685658060.gif (577.04 KB, 640x560, terminator2.gif)

>>455946
>I posted a picture of NATO expansion after fall of Soviet Union. In the laat 20 years NATO has bombed Serbia, invaded Afganistan and destroyed Libya. How can Russia feel safe with NATO at its border?
Niqqa expansion =/= invasion and hot war.
Also none of you tankies give a fuck about NATO expansion
BECAUSE THIS WAR CAUSED NATO TO EXPAND
And more quickly than it ever could have done before.
After this war NATO will be right Russia's border and everyone who's not will be clamoring to get in.
Putin and you dumbass tankies are the best fucking allies that NATO could ever have. You delivered to NATO in 4 months what the most rabid neocon couldn't do in 30 years.
CONGRADU-FUCKING-LATIONS
kek
>>

 No.455953

>>455949
>Anyone who would have you believe that Crimea "belonged" to Ukraine, and that Russia simply took it away from them is a spooked nationalist with zero respect for the self-determination of the people who actually fucking live here.
LMAO, no one wants to join the broke ass Russian Federation. It's a hilarious lie on it's face.
>>

 No.455954

>>455946
>>Yanukovich suggests new elections
Yeah because lost an actual democratic election.
>Nazis say no and do Euromaidan
LMAO, yes millions of Ukrainian's were "Nazis".
Ukraine wanted to join the EU, but Putin used his puppet to block the will of the people.
The idea that Ukraine would want to wallow in poverty under the Russian Federation like Belarus instead of joining one of the riches economic blocking in the world is laughable.
>>

 No.455955

>>455954
*instead of joining one of the richest economic blocks in the world is laughable.
>>

 No.455956

File: 1659686812033.jpg (2.8 MB, 3500x2352, nazis.jpg)

>>455946
>>Nazis say no and do Euromaidan
Preach anon
JUST LOOK AT ALL THESE NAZIS EVERYONE!
>>

 No.455957

File: 1659690075057-0.png (752.96 KB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1659690075057-1.png (2.4 MB, 1600x1200, ClipboardImage.png)

Wew this thread suddenly got a ton of activity in past few days after being slow for months. Especially after tank flag zoomer lolcow started spamming his wall-of-text Putin simp rants.

My theory is that the HIMARS which Ukraine started using in past weeks have blown away tons of Russian ammo depots in occupied Ukraine and proven effective as a strategic game changer. When I started reading those reports and seeing the videos of Russian ammo depots up in flames I asked myself: "I wonder how much putinoid/Z-fag/tankie seethe the HIMARS are causing?" And, well, I guess now I have my answer.

A question to the anon who mixes posting anime fanservice with ripping tankie sophists a new asshole: Are you good at making memes?

I was wondering if someone can make a meme where on right side is crying cope wojak wearing Russia military uniform with Russian flag in foreground with destroyed, flaming Russian ammo depot on background of right side and caption that says: "Nooo…you can't just use NATO HIMARS! + *insert wall of text, mental gymnastics cope about 'why Russia is supposed justified to invade Ukraine for 'le security' and 'le hohols' and stuff*. While on left side of meme is wojak with the huge teeth scary grin on his face wearing a Ukraine uniform with Ukraine flag in foreground, with HIMARS in background of left side, and caption on left side that says concisely: "I am defending my country" + "HIMARS go Boom!"
>>

 No.455958

File: 1659691199686.png (374.96 KB, 1200x1200, ClipboardImage.png)

Just counted. This thread was made February 23rd and as of my post now has 546 replies. Out of those 546 replies, 219 of those replies were made in just the 9 days since around July 27th. And Ukraine started using HIMARS in battle against Russian invasion around early or mid July iirc. Hmm…
>>

 No.455959

File: 1659692316608.png (845.94 KB, 1453x1011, oil.png)

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE OIL BABY
>>455957
I'm not good at making memes
>>

 No.455960

>>455958
What are you implying that a hoard of Ukrainian bots are are spreading propoganda about Ukraine.
>>

 No.455961

>IF GERMANY'S LOSING THEN HOW COME WE STILL OCCUPY NORWAY, NORTHERN ITALY, AND DENMARK?
>INB4 IGNORE V2 ROCKETS CAUSING HAVOC IN LONDON
>INB4 IGNORE GROWING SPLITS BETWEEN THE WESTOIDS AND RUSSIANS
>INB4 IGNORE STEINER'S COUNTERATTACK
>INB4 IGNORE ALL THE GAINS IN THE BATTLE OF THE BULGE
>INB4 IGNORE RUSSIAN CASULATIES
>>

 No.455962

>>455960
Ukraine HIMARS destroying Russian ammo depots and z-fag/tankie seethe can be graphed as a linear relation. Hence the sudden flurry of activity in this thread in past week. Much of it z-fag/tankie seethe
>>

 No.455963

File: 1659696672878-0.jpg (2.71 MB, 3500x2352, IMG_20220805_124538.jpg)

File: 1659696672878-1.mp4 (36.59 MB, 1280x720, yevgen_haras_s14.mp4)

>>455956
Thanks for posting that image, I have taken the liberty and circled some of the Nazis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army

It seems that about 10% of the people there are Nazis. This corresponds to what Yevgen Haras of C14 had said about Nazi influence in Maidan.
>vid related

"When people tell you who they are, believe them."
>>

 No.455964

File: 1659697660011.mp4 (6.51 MB, 854x480, 1658831372329.mp4)

>>455957
>Nooo…you can't just use NATO HIMARS!
says the crying liberal. all your news rags are awash with articles how it's unfair Russia is pounding Ukrainians with artillery.

HIMARS is good, Ukraine has 10 of them. How many MLRS does Russia have? You've been brainwashed by Marvel movies and think that a Deus Ex Machina will come in the last moment and turn things around. Hitler had Steiner, Ukraine has HIMARS.
>>455959
>it's all about the oil
Russia has 5th largest proven reserves of oil and is called "the gas station of Europe for a reason". Ukraine is 51st by proven reserves lol.
>>455962
Actually, I came to visit leftychan after a while and I couldn't believe that liberal lies were accepted as fact here. The only lolcows are you stupid liberals who actually believe your media tells you.

Russia just took two more villages on the south of Kramatorsk-Sloviansk and one village to the north. When is Ukraine going to stop the Russian advance? When is the Kherson counteroffensive coming? "1 million strong army!!" oh wait that was another coping lie. lol
>>

 No.455965

>z-tards are still here
They really are like flies on this shit.
>>

 No.455967

>>455965
You're both stupid. Anti war is the only correct position
>>

 No.455968

>>455967
>Anti war is the only correct position
The only correct position is not caring about these wars. I don't care about anti-war shit, the only cause I'm for first and foremost is the destruction of capitalism, not peace, or justice.
>>

 No.455969

>>455968
>The only correct position is not caring about these wars.
then why are you posting in the thread about the war?
>>

 No.455971

>>455965
>z-tard
That's Mr. Zigga to you, white bwoy.
>>

 No.455974

File: 1659706952117.gif (152.55 KB, 322x394, loling trollface soviethat.gif)

>>455873
<Ukraine's war propaganda in one picture
Lol that's savage
>>

 No.455975


>>455969
Your virtue signaling has been documented.
>>

 No.455976

>>455953
No arguments, all you can do is laugh nervously and attempt to deny reality.
>>

 No.455977

>>455976
Notice how libs just have to allude to "common sense" or say it is ridiculous and that's enough of an argument for them. It's because they know their ideology is the dominant one, anything else is laughable. That's why when Russia liberates Donbas they'll say Russia lost the war because they didn't kill all Ukrainians lol.
>>

 No.455978

File: 1659721564386.gif (40.91 KB, 500x359, termintor3.gif)

>>455964
>Russia has 5th largest proven reserves of oil and is called "the gas station of Europe for a reason".
Yes but if Ukraine can develop it's oil reserves the EU will break free of their reliance on Russian petro.
>Ukraine is 51st by proven reserves lol.
STAGGERINGLY BUTT-FUCKING WRONG
>Excluding Russia’s gas reserves in Asia, Ukraine today holds the second biggest known gas reserves in Europe. As of late 2019, known Ukrainian reserves amounted to 1.09 trillion cubic meters of natural gas, second only to Norway’s known resources of 1.53 trillion cubic meters. Yet, these enormous reserves of energy remain largely untapped. Today, Ukraine has a low annual reserve usage rate of about 2 percent. Moreover, more active exploration may yield previously undiscovered gas fields, which would further increase the overall volume of Ukraine’s deposits.
https://hir.harvard.edu/ukraine-energy-reserves/
>>

 No.455979

>>455978
>lib still doesn't understand the difference between proven and unproven oil reserves
does your memory get wiped every night or something?
>>

 No.455980

>>455978
you posted literally the same thing here >>455807 and you were btfo'd. look up what "proven oil reserves are". if Ukrainians are incapable of extracting the oil, and apparently they are because what the fuck have they been doing for the past eight years??

oh that's right, too busy ethnically cleansing Russians and having a nationalist "Ukranisation" campaign to appease the Nazis.
>>

 No.455981

File: 1659722538951.jpg (1.13 MB, 2000x761, morenazis.jpg)

>>455963
>Some Putin shill says 10% of Euromadien protestors were Nazis
>Zero proof, or even explanation as to how he came to that number.
Point is is that there was very wide support the Ukraine joining the EU, it was not some astroturfed coup by NATO, Nazis, or whoever else you pull out of your ass to blame.
And having Nazis show up at a rally, does not make it a Nazi rally lol.
>>

 No.455982

>>455963
>NATO is using Ukraine to hurt Russia.
Yes, and it is very based.
>>455979
>you posted literally the same thing here >>455807 and you were btfo'd.
How the fuck did I get btfo'd. I said Ukraine has shit tons of oil, which they do. You said they had barely any at all.
>if Ukrainians are incapable of extracting the oil, and apparently they are because what the fuck have they been doing for the past eight years??
Getting BTFO'd by Russia.
>oh that's right, too busy ethnically cleansing Russians and having a nationalist "Ukranisation" campaign to appease the Nazis.
Whoa a genocide you say? Surely you have proof of such at huge horrific event protip you don't
>>

 No.455983

>>455981
>Putin shill
You didn't even watch it. Are you scared?

Yevgen Haras is the leader of C14 (S14 to you Anglos), the paramilitary arm of the Svoboda party.
>S14, also known as C14 or Sich[1] (Ukrainian: Січ, romanized: С14), was a neo-Nazi,[2][3][4] Ukrainian nationalist group founded in 2010.[5] In 2018, it gained notoriety for its involvement in violent attacks on Romani camps.[6][7][8] S14 stated that it is only involved in removing illegal Romani camps using "compelling legitimate arguments".[9] In 2020, the group disbanded and was succeeded by the new organisation "Foundation for the Future".[10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S14_(Ukrainian_group)

You poor, ignorant fool.
>>

 No.455984

>>455982
>Whoa a genocide you say?
No, I said ethnic cleansing. lrn2read
>>

 No.455985

>>455983
These attacks are heinous, but come nowhere close to a fucking genocide or ethnic cleansing.
Can you please look up what those word mean in the dictionary you dumbfuck tankie.
>>

 No.455986

>>455982
> I said Ukraine has shit tons of oil, which they do. You said they had barely any at all.
PROVEN reserves

No point talking to you, you're functionally illiterate.
>>

 No.455987

>>455986
Dude whatever, take your stupid ass pedantic win a GTFO. My point is that if Ukraine joins the EU it means the end of Russia's monopoly on Eurozone gas. That's why it's fighting in Ukraine.
You're just quibbling over semantics when you clearly fucking meant to imply that Ukraine has no oil and therefore it could not be a motivation for the invasion.
>>

 No.455988

>>455987
This isn't about points or "winning", it's about breaking your programming.
>My point is that if Ukraine joins the EU
Your ignorance is showing. Countries don't just join the EU like it's the fucking library. Countries require a complete rehaul of their laws and regulations so they are compatible with EU. Good luck with Ukronazis accepting gay marriage. The country must also not be engaged in a conflict or have any border disputes. Not to mention cracking down on corruption. Ukraine could hope to join in 20 years, maybe. It usually takes a country 7-10 years to join the EU, and that's when they are already mostly compatible, they spend 7 years ironing out details. And you think Ukraine can join just like that? You live in a fantasy world, maybe Dumbledore can say a nice word to Ursula on behalf of Zelensky.
>>

 No.455989

File: 1659724198567.jpg (164.34 KB, 1536x2048, pig2.jpg)

>>455988
>Your ignorance is showing. Countries don't just join the EU like it's the fucking library.
You dipshit, they were taking the first steps in joining the EU in 2014. That's why it was stopped by Putin's puppet Yanukovich.
Here's a recounting of what actually happened in 2014. And how close Ukraine was to starting their integration in to the EU.

>In November 2013, Yanukovych was due to travel to Vilinius, Lithuania, for a summit with the EU where he was widely expected to sign an agreement that would have set out a framework for Ukraine’s relationship with the European bloc, including preferential terms of trade. The agreement would have set Ukraine on a clear path for eventual EU membership. (emphasis mine)


>But the agreement and Ukraine’s move closer to Europe angered Putin, who engaged in a campaign of economic pressure against Ukraine: cutting off energy supplies to the country and blocking almost all imports from Ukraine. This resulted in a 25% reduction in Ukrainian exports and pushed the country’s economy into recession. The Kremlin publicly threatened to drive Ukraine into default on its sovereign debt if it went ahead with the EU trade deal.


>On Nov. 21, Yanukovych succumbed to this pressure and suddenly reversed course, saying he would not sign the EU alignment agreement, although he still favored eventual Ukrainian membership in the EU. Instead, he would accept a package of Russian financial assistance to meet the country’s debt obligations.


https://fortune.com/2022/03/02/viktor-yanukovych-yanukovich-putin-put-back-in-power-ukraine-russia/

>Countries require a complete rehaul of their laws and regulations so they are compatible with EU. Good luck with Ukronazis accepting gay marriage.

Then why did put so much pressure on Yanukovich to stop the EU agreement if it was so impossible to get done kek.
>>

 No.455990

>>455989
>eventual EU membership
eventual
>adjective
>attributive
>-Occurring or existing at the end of or as a result of a process or period of time.
>'it's impossible to predict the eventual outcome of the competition’
Yes, 20 years is "eventual".
>>

 No.455991

>>455989
>Putin's puppet Yanukovich
You might as well just don a wolfsangel already. Your perception of reality is so distorted as to be clownlike.
>>

 No.456031

>>455991
Okay he's more he's more of a cuck. A distinction without a difference.
>>

 No.456042

Hard to tell who is the shitposter here.
>>

 No.456044

>>455991
The funny thing about that was that Yanukovich first negotiated with the IMF before he asked the Russian federation for an offer. The IMF made brutal austerity demands for investment, while the Russian offer for investment was a better deal without the requirement to axe social services,labor legislation and selling off state owned enterprises.

The neo-liberals are still pushing that austerity agenda btw:
https://multipolarista.com/2022/07/28/west-neoliberal-recovery-conference/

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