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File: 1662273522474.png (1.5 KB, 1920x1280, UPA Flag.png)

 No.456704[Last 50 Posts]

Last Ukraine thread is full. Why don't we have a new one to stay out of other threads?

At the time of posting this, Ukraine's "methodical counteroffensive" in the Kherson Oblast has started. Where do you think this is headed, anon?

Let the debates begin!
>>

 No.456705

>>456704
I also have a few points of discussion for anons, I wanted to keep the OP slim.

How many bodies can Ukraine keep throwing at the problem against Russia? They are still outgunned. I will have a less pessimistic view of Ukrainian counteroffensives towards the end of the year as more people are trained to fight, and by then most the neo-Nazis Russia wants to denazify will probably be dead from fighting.

If Kherson is retaken by Ukrakne, that would be the extent of any counteroffensive for a few more months methinks. I'm really am pessimistic about the number of troops Ukraine can train, arm, and put on the ground. How will they take back Crimea, Luhansk, and Donetsk? Not to mention the rest of the South. Zelesnky has said he will not stop.

If fighting goes on until winter either side will dig in, or Russia will be smart this time and use what's left of their armor and heavy equipment to move fast once the ground freezes.
>>

 No.456707

>>456704
Does anyone even give a shit about this anymore? It feels lazy I know there isn't much to talk about and people here are creatively bankrupt me included… but this thread is going to turn into tankie/multipolarista shills vs mash up of people who don't like them pretty fast.
>>

 No.456709

File: 1662275364708.mp4 (1.43 MB, 976x688, 8LJa53ofkZ1P_WLb.mp4)

Ukrainians are shelling Kherson city for some reason. Not sure what they're trying to achieve by doing this lol.
>>

 No.456710

>>456707
I give a shit purely on a geopolitical aspect. I've been following this shitshow since 2014

>thread is going to turn into tankie/multipolarista shills vs mash up of people who don't like them pretty fast.


My thoughts were better to keep it contained, so here we go.
>>

 No.456711

File: 1662276102914.mp4 (4.98 MB, 576x1024, wiknto2sitmged-q_Bs3zjWwB.mp4)

>>456704
>Where do you think this is headed, anon?
From what I have read it's a slaughter. Kiev is sending men to attack fortified russian positions without air support or artillery cover, even using mobilised militia forces from Odessa. They're not going to retake shit, we haven't got news of a breakthrough yet either which says a lot.

Video is the constant stream of ambulances going into Odessa since the start of the counteroffensive.
>>

 No.456712

>>456710
It is a bit interesting.
>>

 No.456713

>>456705
>How many bodies can Ukraine keep throwing at the problem against Russia? They are still outgunned. I will have a less pessimistic view of Ukrainian counteroffensives towards the end of the year as more people are trained to fight
Aren't those new fighters just going to be more bodies being thrown in the meat grinder ?
It's not like you can turn people into an elite squad with a few months of training.
>>

 No.456714

>>456713
I am honestly thinking of literal waves of bodies tactics to get anything done on their part, which lead me to ask that question for multiple reasons. The other being, will the people even support an even worse meat grinder at that point?
>>

 No.456715

When is Russia going to use tactial nukes?
>>

 No.456716

>>456715
Why would they need to?
The Russian Army is estimated to have killed tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers just using their soviet artillery. A tactical nuke would be an unnecessary escalation and only something they would do if BADLY losing the war.
>>

 No.456717

>>456716
>BADLY losing the war
exactly
>>

 No.456718

>>456717
Unless you get your news solely from reddit, that is clearly not the case.
>>

 No.456719

>>456718
sweety you need to stop supporting adolf putler
>>

 No.456720

File: 1662281698727.jpg (36.65 KB, 672x540, 20220807_035830.jpg)

>>456719
LOL for a second there I thought you were one of these "people"
>>

 No.456721

Does anyone here actually think Ukraine or Russia deserve our support?
>>

 No.456722

File: 1662283765833.mp4 (1.71 MB, 352x640, rkdElfkX255JAFSq.mp4)

Ukrainian soldiers at Kherson issued religious icons instead of body armor.
>>

 No.456723

>>456722
Yeah GAWD will protect them from bullets and shrapnel… If there is another world war it will be interesting to see how American millennials and zoomers cope on tik-tok while being blown up.
>>

 No.456725

File: 1662285303567-0.jpg (80.79 KB, 987x789, 1662274434561251.jpg)

File: 1662285303567-1.jpg (43.37 KB, 680x563, 1662267753392-0.jpg)

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 No.456726

>>456725
Kek the pre-emptive cope from anglo media
>>

 No.456727

File: 1662285481726.mp4 (43.08 MB, 1280x720, w6gbvt0yxol91.mp4)

Summary of the Ukrainian counteroffensive from Rybar.
>>

 No.456729

File: 1662295210910.jpg (193.85 KB, 1920x1080, 1658090110325028.jpg)

I think Russias forces are exhausted and I think that they wont be able to keep this up much longer. I don't suport NATO I am just being honest here. A large, not inconsequential portion of the population, doesn't support the war and they have exhausted a large portion of their military power already.

The again, on the other hand, Ukraine is a small country with a dwindling population due to the events of the last few months. They are armed with the united states best equipment though.
>>

 No.456733

>>456729
Russia is always going to win a war of attrition against Ukraine, tranime anon.
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 No.456734

File: 1662317007945-0.png (908.39 KB, 1024x576, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1662317007945-1.png (1.8 MB, 1504x1000, ClipboardImage.png)

>Ukraine has no chance of succeeding in the counter-offensive because no air support
Hezbollah drove the Israeli invaders out of Lebanon in 2000 and again in 2006 with no air support plus the Zionists having clear air superiority with the latest high-tech modern Western jets.
>>

 No.456735

>>456733
I dunno man. Maybe. I think Russians are sick of being foddr for war.
>>

 No.456736

File: 1662318203327.mp4 (893.11 KB, 464x366, ceNc4pS3JHSAFK3f.mp4)

>>456734
Ukrainian army isn't nearly as motivated as Hezbollah and this is a conventional war unlike 2006. The terrain in the region they're attacking is literally just flat fields with nowhere to hide from jets and drones, nothing like the urban combat of that region in the middle east.

>>456733 (me)
Just found this video which really reinforces my point, Russian re-enforcement ms heading to Kherson.

>>456735
Most Russians understand that if they were to abandon the war, Ukraine would join NATO and become a giant American military base right on their border. Russians tend to be a very patriotic people with a siege mentality, history has shown this, which is why the war has such broad support in Russia.
>>

 No.456737

>>456736
*re-enforcements, damn autocorrect
>>

 No.456739

File: 1662323563800-0.png (2.48 MB, 1100x824, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1662323563801-1.png (446.19 KB, 640x426, ClipboardImage.png)

>>456736
>Ukrainian army isn't nearly as motivated as Hezbollah
They're defending their national existence against a foreign invader, just like Hezbollah was. I don't see why they wouldn't be.
>The terrain in the region they're attacking is literally just flat fields with nowhere to hide from jets and drones, nothing like the urban combat of that region in the middle east.
And yet the Russians have still been bogged down for 6 months in WW1 and Iran-Iraq War style static front attrition warfare in south and east Ukraine.
>Just found this video which really reinforces my point, Russian re-enforcement ms heading to Kherson.
There was also a 40 mile Russian convoy headed to Kyiv back in February-March 2022. What happened to that? Was Kyiv a feint or a push?
>Russians tend to be a very patriotic people with a siege mentality, history has shown this, which is why the war has such broad support in Russia.
Is that why Russia banned all its citizens from Facebook as soon as this war started? Clearly it cannot trust its citizens to show support for the Ukraine war, a large percentage of the Russians are against this war.
>>

 No.456740

>>456739
>They're defending their national existence against a foreign invader
Western Ukrainians aren't as motivated to defend the east as many of the people there are ethnic Russians who support Putin and voted for the opposition parties before they were banned. On the ground a lot of the Ukrainian troops are conscripts being sent against the Russians badly unequipped for the task they have been given. Compare that to Hezbollah which was a volunteer force of just a few thousand men who were ready to blow themselves up in suicide attacks to fight against enemies of their faith, while also having the advantage of fighting in claustrophobic urban areas. It's two very different kinds of warfare you're comparing here.
>And yet the Russians have still been bogged down for 6 months in WW1 and Iran-Iraq War style static front attrition warfare in south and east Ukraine.
And what makes you think the Ukrainians will be able to do any better than the Russians with only a fraction of the firepower?
>There was also a 40 mile Russian convoy headed to Kyiv back in February-March 2022. What happened to that? Was Kyiv a feint or a push?
I don't know what that was but it's clear that the Russians have learned lessons from this conflict and are now conducting their pushes in a much more methodical and conventional way.
>a large percentage of the Russians are against this war.
And a much larger percentage are in favour of the war. The sanctions and demonisation of ethnic Russians in western media has only served to strengthen the Russian people's siege mentality I mentioned earlier. It also helps that most of largest organised political opposition forces in Russia, namely the communists and right-wing nationalists, are in favour of the war and will not mobilise their members against it.
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 No.456742

File: 1662333870774-0.png (6 MB, 1800x1799, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1662333870774-1.png (984.46 KB, 1360x765, ClipboardImage.png)

>>456740
>Western Ukrainians aren't as motivated to defend the east…
East Ukraine pre-invasion was the most urbanized, industrial center of the country and home to 1/3 of Ukraine's population. Even the most hardcore nationalist Ukrainian volunteer groups like the Azov Battalion, centered in southeast Ukraine, have a leadership and membership who are mostly east Ukrainians. The Azov Battalion group who made their last stand at Mariupol, which got overrun early in the Russian invasion, were only about 1,000 or 1,200 guys, give or take. And yet they held out for over 3 months in a city besieged by over 100,000 Russian troops, and even then, still managed to inflict about a 25-1 kill/death casualty ratio against the Russians despite being outnumbered 100-1. Their stand at Mariupol probably relieved pressure from the northern/western front which helped Ukraine's military to push the Russians out of Kyiv and Kharkiv in the north. Regardless of what you think of their political views, you can't deny that they put up a hell of a fight, just like other ideologically committed fanatical groups like Hezbollah did for example in Lebanon when they fought Israel's invasion. Also, kind of a tangent, but some anti-imperialist leftists also criticize Hezbollah as being far-right for their pro-Iranian theocracy political views. And yet for many of these same leftists, that doesn't stop them from offering "critical support" for Hezbollah with respect to Israeli aggression, even if in domestic Lebanon politics they prefer a secular socialist alternative for the Lebanese people. Interesting how this same line of reasoning and critical support isn't offered towards groups like Azov when it comes specifically to their defense of Ukraine against Russian aggression. Perhaps because the invading Russians fly red flags to larp as "communist" despite Russia being a capitalist oligarchy intent on imperial expansion? And they mostly keep their genocidal rants about Ukraine and destroying the Ukrainian nation to the domestic Russian audience (apparently not aware that people outside of Russia can translate what they write, post and say on videos) rather than saying it out loud to foreigners like the Israelis do?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Russia_Should_Do_with_Ukraine
<"What Russia Should Do with Ukraine" (Russian: Что Россия должна сделать с Украиной, romanized: Chto Rossiya dolzhna sdelat' s Ukrainoy),[a][1] is an op-ed article written by Timofey Sergeytsev [uk] and published by the Russian state-owned news agency RIA Novosti.[2] The article calls for the full destruction of Ukraine as a state and the Ukrainian national identity in the aim of the "denazification" of the latter.[3][4]
<It was published on 3 April 2022 in the context of the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine,[2] on the same day as the bodies of dozens of civilians were discovered after the retreat of Russian forces from Ukrainian city of Bucha.[3][5][6]
<The article caused international criticism and outrage[3][7][8] and has been condemned as evidence of genocidal intent.[9][10][11]
>And what makes you think the Ukrainians will be able to do any better than the Russians with only a fraction of the firepower?
One word: HIMARS
>>

 No.456743

File: 1662336807370-0.jpg (321.42 KB, 1388x2048, 20220825_150743.jpg)

File: 1662336807370-1.jpg (236.3 KB, 922x2048, 20220825_150746.jpg)

>>456742
>Even the most hardcore nationalist Ukrainian volunteer groups like the Azov Battalion, centered in southeast Ukraine, have a leadership and membership who are mostly east Ukrainians
Yes, but they are ethnic Ukrainians who are in the minority in the east of Ukraine. In 2014 the local Mariupol authorities, police forces and militias of steelworkers all defected to the Russian separatists, and it was only Azov neo-nazis fully committing to retaking the city which kept it under the control of the Ukrainian central government. After these events is when Azov made Mariupol their headquarters.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mariupol_(2014)
>The Azov Battalion group who made their last stand at Mariupol, which got overrun early in the Russian invasion, were only about 1,000 or 1,200 guys, give or take. And yet they held out for over 3 months in a city besieged by over 100,000 Russian troops
Precisely because they were fighting a defensive war in an urban area. A small force holding out against a larger one in a besieged city is not at all unprecedented in the history of warfare lol. Comparing Azov's defense of Mariupol to the current offensive is like apples and oranges.
Your average Ukrainian conscript isn't going to have the same fighting capabilities as a drug-fuelled psychotic neo-nazi who has been getting military training from NATO for the last 8 years.
>by over 100,000 Russian troops, and even then, still managed to inflict about a 25-1 kill/death casualty ratio
Lmao did Joseph Goebbels come back from the grave and claim this figure?
>which helped Ukraine's military to push the Russians out of Kyiv and Kharkiv in the north
Kek the Ukrainians didn't push them out, the Russians just withdrew to redeploy their forces to the Donbass. That's accepted fact, there was no Ukrainian offensive which pushed the Russians out of the north.
>you can't deny that they put up a hell of a fight, just like other ideologically committed fanatical groups like Hezbollah did for example in Lebanon when they fought Israel's invasion
Once again, they're incomparable. You can't compare a conventional national military to Islamic fundamentalist groups like Hezbollah. The Ukrainian military is just defending their country no better or worse than any other military in the region could given the circumstances. This is just reddit-tier shit, "bro the ukrainian soldiers are like the geckin' superheroes in my movies!!!"
>Hezbollah tangent
Simple reasoning: Hezbollah is fighting US imperialism, Ukraine is not. Hezbollah forced Reagan to withdraw from the middle east while the ukrainian leadership are begging for US troops in the country and EU integration. One is anti-imperialist, the other is not.
I would also argue that Hezbollah is somewhat of a revolutionary force in the middle east, or at least have been historically. This becomes clear if you look into their origins and their relationship with the Iranian revolution.
>Perhaps because the invading Russians fly red flags to larp as "communist" despite Russia being a capitalist oligarchy intent on imperial expansion?
Meanwhile the Ukrainian government is ran by the Americans, who are the dominant capitalist power ran by oligarchs who are set on imperial expansion. One is the lesser evil here.
>'What Russia Should Do with Ukraine'
A book written by some irrelevant russian political actor who hasn't even got his own wikipedia page doesn't prove much bud.

>One word: HIMARS

KEK this is some WW2 Nazi Wunderwaffe tier delusion that doesn't even warrant a response.
>>

 No.456748

File: 1662342191256.webm (3.87 MB, 640x360, AAA.webm)

>>456745
Adam Something is a former neo-nazi who supported Macron over Melenchon in the French election, very fitting that he would be shilling for Azov.

>>456746

Well at least you didn't link the Putler Wikipedia article (yes one actually exists lmao)
>>

 No.456750

File: 1662342431790.jpg (138.45 KB, 599x881, redditors_btfo_3.jpg)

>>456747
>everyone who I disagree with is a Russian bot
kek you are actually a redditor aren't you
>>

 No.456751

File: 1662342722017.jpg (392.14 KB, 987x1472, myfzixt4k8t81.jpg)

>>456749
How new are you if you think anyone associated with breadtube is 'leftist'?
>>

 No.456754

>>456748
>Adam Something is a former neo-nazi who supported Macron over Melenchon in the French election, very fitting that he would be shilling for Azov.

So Azov Something ?
>>

 No.456755

>>456745
>posting ultra-liberal adam something
>>456747
>pepe
Go ahead and kill yourself you'll be improving thread quality.
>>

 No.456757

>>456742
>The Azov Battalion group who made their last stand at Mariupol, which got overrun early in the Russian invasion, were only about 1,000 or 1,200 guys, give or take. And yet they held out for over 3 months in a city besieged by over 100,000 Russian troops

You are leaving out all the important details. At the end of the battle in Mariupol the Azov guys just sat in an old soviet bunker for a few months while the Russians waited outside until the Azovs gave up. Also only half the people that went into the bunker made it out alive, and the Russians basically had no casualties because all they did was sit outside the bunker and wait. The Russians should be considered very courteous for not filling up the bunker with water and just drown the Azov guys.
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 No.456758

File: 1662371206140.png (551.04 KB, 640x526, ClipboardImage.png)

>>456757
Azovstal steel plant has an extensive network of tunnels that connect it to different parts of the city of Mariupol. That's how Azov were able to pop out to carry out gorilla warfare on the Russians, and inflict 25 Russian dead/wounded for every one of theirs with their superior modern weaponry (elite NATO issue machine guns, battle rifles, NLAWs and Javelins) and veteran combat experience (against Russian and press ganged Donbass Ukrainian conscripts armed with AK's and Mosins), despite being outnumbered 100 to 1 (100k Russian invaders vs 1k Azov Mariupol defenders).
>>

 No.456759

>>456713
Another thing to factor in honestly is how they are trained to fight also. Regardless of an elite unit or not.
>>

 No.456761

>>456758
This image smells like propaganda cooked up for a PR campaign.
>>

 No.456762

>>456742
>The Azov Battalion group who made their last stand at Mariupol, which got overrun early in the Russian invasion, were only about 1,000 or 1,200 guys, give or take. And yet they held out for over 3 months in a city besieged by over 100,000 Russian troops, and even then, still managed to inflict about a 25-1 kill/death casualty ratio against the Russians despite being outnumbered 100-1. Their stand at Mariupol probably relieved pressure from the northern/western front which helped Ukraine's military to push the Russians out of Kyiv and Kharkiv in the north. Regardless of what you think of their political views, you can't deny that they put up a hell of a fight,
HAHHAHAHAHAHA what in the actual fuck am I reading? Glorious Nazis!
>>

 No.456766

>>456762
Where's the lie?
>>

 No.456767

>>456761
Ah, so we may safely dismiss it. So what's the official party explanation for this taking so long comrade?
>>

 No.456770

>>456766
Has to be trolling
>>

 No.456773

>>456770
This is bait, what about >>456758 is untrue?
>>

 No.456774

>>456773
Beats me but why should I trust it, given all the other exaggerations and lies coming out of Ukraine's spin machine? Especially considering the cheerleading-like way it was written?
>>

 No.456775

File: 1662428345513-0.png (1.99 MB, 1080x1840, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1662428345513-1.png (2.13 MB, 1080x1832, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1662428345513-2.png (1.78 MB, 1080x1591, ClipboardImage.png)

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 No.456776

File: 1662428732090.png (309.33 KB, 680x594, How do you do, fellow kids.png)

>>456775
>"democracies"
>most corrupt county in Europe
>current president was hand-picked and groomed by a billionaire
>banned all the anti-capitalist parties
>overthrew its elected president in 2014 in a coup and supports of the coup regularly threaten to murder the president
>democracy is when you elect oligarchs, and the more oligarchs you elect, the more democratic you are
>Yes I am a leftist, how could you tell?
>>

 No.456777

>>456775
>National unification based on ethnic lines is bad

,>So we should defend Ukraine based on national and ethnic lines

The more I hear both sides of these retarded conflict speak the more I am certain that taking an anti-war dance based on class line is the absolute and only correct position to hold in this conflict.
>>

 No.456778

>>456777
>taking an anti-war dance based on class line is the absolute and only correct position to hold in this conflict.
In an ideal world yes, true. But in a practical, realist approach, the Ukrainians living under Russian bombs and occupation right now aren't gonna support just surrendering their land to a foreign aggressor that has committed genocidal war crimes. So, barring an anti-war Russian movement bringing down the Russian regime, the best option that the Ukrainians see (and majority support) is to continue the struggle to repel the Russian invaders, accepting any and all economic and military support they can get from other countries to do so. Like the Javelins, Switchblades, Bayraktars, and HIMARS.
>>

 No.456779

>>456775
Eastern European leftists are either the most based people imaginable or limp-wristed, kraut-simping socdems with an eternal victim complex. And there's no in-between.
>>

 No.456780

>>456729
>I think
I don't care what you think lol
>>

 No.456781

>>456742
really gay post
>>

 No.456782

File: 1662434269628.png (645.63 KB, 668x500, ClipboardImage.png)

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 No.456785

>>456782
Do you guys actually believe this, I'm curious. This offensive has been going on for nearly a week now and the Ukrainians are yet to make a breakthrough, despite suffering ridiculous loses. Your memes just come off as pure cope when that is the reality on the ground.
>>

 No.456786

>>456778
>a foreign aggressor that has committed genocidal war crimes
Feel free to provide evidence for these any time.
>>

 No.456788

>>456786
Sneed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_filtration_camps_for_Ukrainians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_violence_in_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Rape_by_soldiers_of_the_Russian_Armed_Forces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_white_phosphorus_bombs_in_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#During_the_2022_Russian_invasion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_theatre_airstrike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_hospital_airstrike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol#Mass_shelling_of_residential_areas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_March_2022_Chernihiv_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16_March_2022_Chernihiv_breadline_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Dnipro_missile_strikes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaplyne_railway_station_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kramatorsk_railway_station_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chasiv_Yar_missile_strike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_2022_Kharkiv_cluster_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_2022_Kharkiv_cluster_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_2022_Kharkiv_cluster_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_dormitories_missile_strike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irpin_refugee_column_shelling
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Borodianka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilohorivka_school_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykolaiv_cluster_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_bombing_of_Odesa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serhiivka_missile_strike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremenchuk_shopping_mall_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinnytsia_missile_strikes#July_rocket_attack_on_the_city_centre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Zhytomyr_attacks
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 No.456790

File: 1662441687727-0.png (839.02 KB, 1023x1280, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1662441687727-1.png (1.41 MB, 1031x1222, ClipboardImage.png)

>>

 No.456791

>the boss music Russian invaders hear when their bases, ammo depots, oil depots, airfields, artillery and armor get btfo by the Ukrainians' M142 HIMARS
>>

 No.456793

File: 1662444826744.png (41.48 KB, 571x618, d0073da70dbe33d1668f0ea90b….png)

>>456790
>literal reddit watermark on your meme
>>

 No.456794

File: 1662444925049.jpg (248.42 KB, 498x620, 20220826_143750.jpg)

>>456788
Wikipedia is just a ukro government propaganda outlet at this point
>>

 No.456795

>>456793
>muh reddit
have sex
>>

 No.456796

>>456794
I keep hearing that Ukraine loses are more tremendous that offical from "anti-imperialists" leftist, but I have not seen any substantial proof that was not butt-hurt or hearsay.
>>

 No.456797

>>456796
*than official numbers
>>

 No.456798

>>456788
>Bucha massacre
Oh you mean the one that would defy fundamental laws of human decomposition if the Russian army had anything to do with it?
>>

 No.456799

>>456788
Even if we were to take your Wikipedia vomit as evidence instead of a tertiary source at best that is extremely vulnerable to manipulation, you still haven't substantiated the claim of genocide. Genocide has a very clear meaning and simply killing civilians doesn't rise to the description.
>>

 No.456800

>>456796
Thier official number is 0 so any losses are greater than what's being claimed.
>>

 No.456801

Ukrainians: Russia is committing genocide ( and not for the first time)

Genocide researchers: what Russia is doing in Ukraine is genocide.

Several countries: we recognize what's being done by Russia in Ukraine as genocide.

Group of experts from all over the world who study this stuff and analyze conflict to determine if it falls under the definition of genocide: Russia is committing genocide on Ukraine.

Russia: we must erase the very idea of Ukraine, reeducate the children we stole, scatter millions across remote camps and make them work for food till they die. Make mass graves for the civilians we kill. Khokols aren't even people really.

Some fucking tankie online: "Russia has a right to defend itself. There's no genocide. "
>>

 No.456802

File: 1662449955203-0.png (710.44 KB, 1080x1410, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1662449955203-1.png (620.02 KB, 1080x885, ClipboardImage.png)

>HAvE yOu NoTiCeD tHe WeStErN libErAl ImPeRiAliStS lOvE tO aCT As iF aLl GeNoCiDe iS bAd?
>>

 No.456803

File: 1662450286601.png (404.11 KB, 2860x954, ClipboardImage.png)

https://archive.ph/GOnSQ
>He sHOuLD hAvE jUsT NuuuKeD tHe EnTiRe shiThOLe
>>

 No.456804

File: 1662450472483.png (286.16 KB, 811x713, ClipboardImage.png)

>>

 No.456805

File: 1662451451773.jpg (90.15 KB, 967x968, 20220504_095730~2.jpg)

Oh shit bros I think the #NAFO tards have found us
>>

 No.456806

File: 1662451530590.png (195.08 KB, 550x645, ClipboardImage.png)

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/8/20/2117758/-Ukraine-update-Russian-ambassador-calls-for-genocide-as-U-S-buys-grain-to-stave-off-food-crisis
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1560827471804727297
>The true face of "Russian diplomacy"
>Russian Ambassador Mikhail Ulyanov openly threatens genocide against Ukrainian population.
>Of course, he soon deleted his tweet and already came up with all sorts of excuses, but the Internet remembers everything.
>>

 No.456807

>>456805
Putinsisters…
>>

 No.456808

File: 1662452332284-0.png (793.05 KB, 1021x576, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1662452332284-1.png (2.7 MB, 1784x1184, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1662452332284-2.png (244.94 KB, 600x300, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1662452332284-3.png (8.46 MB, 3890x2593, ClipboardImage.png)

>>456805
Putinsisters…
>>

 No.456809

File: 1662452505274.png (403.66 KB, 626x449, ClipboardImage.png)

>>456805
Duginsisters..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avigdor_Eskin
>Eskin was a founder of Israeli New Right movement together with the former MK Michael Kleiner and was behind the alliance between the Israeli right and American conservatives, led by senator Jesse Helms. Additionally, he organised the arms supply to the anti-communist guerrillas in Nicaragua. The most controversial of his activities was his support of the White regime in South Africa due to its staunch anti-communist politics, until its collapse in the early 1990s.
>Eskin has close ties to Russian political analyst Aleksandr Dugin, having previously served on the central committee of Dugin's Eurasia Party.[12]
>>

 No.456811

File: 1662453185883.png (469.28 KB, 550x567, ClipboardImage.png)

>>

 No.456812

>>456798
I think that even some of pro-US/Ukrainian leaning news sites have published retractions over their publications of the Bucha happening. But nobody ever takes note of that stuff.

>>456801
To be fair when allegation of genocide were made the Russians did invite independent international investigators, and the US and EU declined to send any. Without an investigation on the ground you're limited to speculating over the pictures and videos that got posted online

>Russia: we must erase the very idea of Ukraine,

On the other hand the Russians recently announced official courses for the Ukrainian language in Russian public schools.

>Some fucking tankie online

Why do you do engage in this form of tribalism ?
You are just outing your self as somebody who is biased.
>>

 No.456815

File: 1662493786341.png (962.12 KB, 640x996, 1662481573412679.png)

>>

 No.456816

LNR/DNR/Chechen troops get wiped out.

Footage fount and posted by Ukranian soldiers after they captured the area

https://streamable.com/ms39h3

Rough translation:

1 clip: talking about not all people having vests \ helmets while they need to move to position

2 clip: "- ours and LNR soldiers are dead"

3 clip:

-where are you hit?
-in the back
-(on radio) I have 300(injured), come to furthest trench to help, before he becomes 200(dead)
-(radio silence)
>>

 No.456817

>>456801
Literally argumentum ad populum: the post. What is your actual fucking evidence that Russia is engaging in a campaign to erase an entire ethnic group over others?
>>

 No.456818

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Legal_definition_of_genocide
>Under the 1948 Genocide Convention, genocide requires both genocidal intent ("intent to destroy, in whole or in part") and acts carried out to destroy "a national, ethnic, racial or religious group" with that intent; the acts can be any of:[14]

>(a) Killing members of the group;

Check: >>456788 >>456789
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_civilians_in_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

>(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

Check:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_violence_in_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Rape_by_soldiers_of_the_Russian_Armed_Forces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol#Mass_shelling_of_residential_areas
>(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Check:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol#Cholera_outbreak
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol#Humanitarian_situation
>(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
>(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Check:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_child_abductions_in_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_filtration_camps_for_Ukrainians
>— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2[14]

>Punishable acts include genocide and also complicity in and attempts, conspiracy, or incitement to commit genocide, and parties to the convention have an obligation to prevent and suppress them.[14]
>>

 No.456820

>>456816
There are Chechens fighting on the Ukrainian side too, under the Mansur Battalion. They oppose the pro-Russian Chechens (Kadyrovtsy) because Akhmad Kadyrov was the turncoat who betrayed the Chechens when Yeltsin/Putin-led Russia invaded Chechnya in the 1990's - 2000's, carpet bombed the city of Grozny to the ground (Grozny was at one point "the most destroyed city on Earth") and killed over 100,000 Chechen civilians. Akhmad Kadyrov is the father of Ramzan Kadyrov, the current leader of Russian-occupied Chechnya and one of Putin's closest political allies.

Video is the Mansur Battalion fighting against the Russians in presumably Donbass, back in late March.
>>

 No.456821

>>456817
There have been a few cases where the NATO-PR-bros started to accuse the Russians of crimes the US-Ukrainian-proxy force was actually committing. Accusatory projection of sorts. If you fart in the elevator, and you don't want others to suspect it was your flatulence, you complain very loudly about the smell, because that diverts attention away from you.

Given that a bunch of posts have been made with the genocide theme, i'm beginning to consider the possibility that some revelations, that might incriminate the US-Ukranian side, could be about to drop.

I might be wrong, this is a war after all, and wars come with lots of propaganda noise that bears no relation to reality. Interpreting that noise can be as fruitless as reading tea-leafs. But if you see a dedicated push to drive home a particular narrative, that is a good indicator that some fucked up shit went down, and somebody is trying to get ahead of the story.
>>

 No.456822

>>456818
>>456788
All right that's enough of this shit. You have not posted any evidence. A wiki is not evidence. If you have some evidence cited in that wiki then by all means cite that, but just linking a wiki alone is extremely poor debate etiquette.

Let's stop beating around the bush here. We all know the real reason that people choose to cite wikis in arguments. It is because they project their beliefs out of emotion and expect others to agree with them on that basis: too close-minded to realize that other people might not share the same mindset as them; too lazy to back their claims up with specific evidence; too apathetic to guide the person they're trying to convince through the line of reasoning that may have once led them to their conviction. When you see someone cite a wiki instead of providing a logical argument or the source they actually wanted you to see, the only sound reaction is to point and laugh at them.

Citing a wiki is at best a vague, discourteous tactic used for making the person you’re trying to convince do all your work for you; at worst a massive red herring due to the lengthiness in explaining to people who cite it just why it’s so bad, as well as a massive disincentive for continuing discussion because the people who do cite it are presenting just how stupid and incapable of digesting criticism they are. It's amazing how often this is true.
>>

 No.456823

For contrast, the American invasion of Iraq was easily an order of magnitude (if not two?) more murderous and destructive than the Russian invasion of Ukraine, yet you never hear people referring to the former as a genocide. Because words have meaning.
>>

 No.456824

>>456822
Not him but the onus to fact check the wiki does technically fall on you too. Wiki articles have been shown to be accurate with in a low margin of error. Just read the wiki come to your own conclusions and debunk him based on that. "[Citation needed]" is usually a dead give away that a wiki is probably not as accurate as the opposition is claiming.
>>

 No.456825

>>456821
Pure projection and cope, the Russian military is a notoriously undisciplined army, the war crimes they're accused of come form a legion of accusers and are completely plausible.
The way Russian shills are trying to gaslight is pathetic.
>>

 No.456826

>>456820
>Video is the Mansur Battalion fighting against the Russians in presumably Donbass, back in late March.
Lol no, it's I'll equiped LNR/DNR/Chechen troops exercising their "autonomy" lol.
All the regular soldiers and young men are already dead which is why everyone in the video is 50+.
>>

 No.456827

>>456822
Niqqa a genocide is a staggeringly horrific real fucking thing. You don't get to dilute it's meaning because it's politically convenient.
>>

 No.456828

>>456816
call of duty footage from 2010 exercise in hungary
>>

 No.456829

>>456826
>Lol no, it's I'll equiped LNR/DNR/Chechen troops exercising their "autonomy" lol.
I was referring to the video I posted >>456820, not the video in the streamable link you posted >>456816
>>

 No.456831

Every single Ukraine thread is waste of energy but I guess there isn't much more to fight about right now for these retards.
>>

 No.456833

File: 1662509517193.png (2.52 MB, 846x1390, ClipboardImage.png)

>>456823
Say you're a zoomer without saying you're a zoomer. The US invasion of Iraq sparked the biggest anti-war protests in human history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war_protests
And quite a lot of those protestors and anti-war groups specifically made the case that the US invasion and occupation of Iraq was genocidal, especially with respect to atrocities like, for example, the Siege of Fallujah.

What's interesting is that Saddam regime itself, the initial target of the US regime change operation in Iraq, was itself guilty of genocide against the Kurds in Iraq during the Al-Anfal Campaign when it gassed Kurd towns with chemical weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_campaign
And also arguably in the Iran-Iraq War, where Saddam's Iraq (backed by USA and USSR) invaded Iran and gassed Iranian cities with chemical weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#Iraq's_use_of_chemical_weapons

Russia has committed genocidal war crimes before in living memory, for example against the Chechens during the Russian invasion of Chechnya in the 1990's to 2000's >>456820:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War#Human_rights_and_war_crimes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War#Human_rights_and_war_crimes

And interestingly, kind of similar to Saddam Hussein, Putin is very close to the US power elite and has been backed by the US before, having been the protege of the US-backed Yeltsin who helped him oversee the selling off of former Soviet state industries into oligarch mafia hands. And not just him either. Putin's a protege and close friend of Henry Kissinger (the US ghoul of Vietnam/Cambodia) >>456808 as well as the Bushes (both father George HW Bush and son George W Bush).

The difference today is that the US is not invading Putin's Russia like it did Saddam's Iraq. Instead, it is arming Ukraine to defend itself from Russia's invasion. This would be like if in the 1980's the USA had decided to support Iran to defend itself against Iraq's invasion rather than arm and finance Saddam (the latter of which is what actually happened of course).
>>

 No.456837

>>456827
Responding to the wrong poster, perhaps? Because that's exactly what this clown is trying to do by claiming genocide is "whenever bad stuff happens".
>>

 No.456838

>>456833
>The US invasion of Iraq sparked the biggest anti-war protests in human history
And they were complete failures kek. Anti-war protests haven't done shit to stop capital from waging war after war.
>>

 No.456839

>>456837
Yeah I was, my bad.
>>

 No.456840

>>456838
The Iraq War started ending in 2010 after the Wikileaks war crimes video was released. So no they were not a failure, this war was started because of 9/11 which would have given anyone a blank check to start wars. It's remarkable it ended when it did.
>>

 No.456841

>>456837
>Because that's exactly what this clown is trying to do by claiming genocide is "whenever bad stuff happens".
Genocide has a very specific definition, and what Russia is committing in Ukraine clearly fits the bill of the definition >>456818 . If your tankie cognitive dissonance is asshurt by this that is not my problem. Sneed
>>

 No.456842

File: 1662524362725.png (216.72 KB, 598x613, 1662505958940480.png)

>>

 No.456843

>>456841
How is Russia commiting genocide? Genuine question, not trollimg.
>>

 No.456844

>>456843
>How is Russia committing genocide?
See >>456818
>>

 No.456845

>>456825
I heard that some US officials in the US military said that the Russian military had very professional conduct in Ukraine, i don't know what that means exactly or if that includes the Donbass militias that fight along side the Russians.

I don't think you can make an accusations stick by saying something is plausible.
I also don't think that it is plausible, the Russians probably intend for the areas in the Donbass region to eventually join the Russian federation. They need to have the support of the local population for that, win their hearts and minds.

>The way Russian shills

You are trying to make this into an echo-chamber for hating the Russians.
We don't want that, because we want a diplomatic solution to this war, and that's not possible if you dehumanize the other side. We also don't want the Russians to become a scapegoat for the internal problems in the west.

There are vested interests that are trying to manufacture consent for prolonging this war, because they benefit from it.
Please consider not playing into their hands.
I want this war to end yesterday.
>>

 No.456846

>>456796
>Ukraine loses are more tremendous that offical
Source on the official number? Ukraine has not released their casualty numbers since the war started. Because they're massive. Ukrainian soldiers are being treated in Germany, Poland, Switzerland, Denmark.
>>456778
>>456788
>committed genocidal war crimes.
>source: wikipedia
Wikipedia also tells me communism killed a 100 million people. You have to be trolling, because you're a caricature of a liberal.
>>456811
>>456790
>sharing literal CIA memes
>>456827
>Niqqa
calm down, cumskin
>>456841
And what Ukraine did in the east fits the definition of ethnic cleansing. Now what?
>>

 No.456847

>>456845
>Please consider not playing into their hands.
Comatoast, the owner of this board, the one writing "Niqqa", works for a US munitions manufacturer. Prolonging the war is in his self interest.
>>

 No.456848

>>456840
You're an in idiot if you think that's true.
>>

 No.456849

>>456846
>And what Ukraine did in the east fits the definition of ethnic cleansing.
It doesn't, pert of Russia's strategy was clandestine infiltration and funding color revolutions in Crimea and Donbass, basically everything Tankies accuse NATO and the US of doing.
Trying to counter that is not "genocide" or even an attempt at it.
>>

 No.456850

>>456847
I'm not coma, cope niqqa.
>>

 No.456851

>>456846
>Wikipedia also tells me communism killed a 100 million people. You have to be trolling, because you're a caricature of a liberal.
It doesn't and this is a logically fallacious argument anyway. Just because Wikipedia is biased sometimes doesn't mean they are wrong about Russian war crimes.
Wikipedia says water is wet, is that wrong too?
>>

 No.456852

>>456845
>I heard that some US officials in the US military said that the Russian military had very professional conduct in Ukraine,
LMAO, long before all this the Russian military was believed to have the worst rates of rape within their ranks than any military in the world.
>>

 No.456853

>>456852
By whom? Got any evidence to support this "The Hun" tier of war propaganda?
>>

 No.456854

>>456853
>With the release of Colonel Budanov, who killed a 17-year-old Chechen girl and allegedly raped her, on parole in February 2009, the Russian government closed the discussion on one of the most controversial issues of the “Russian military operation” in Chechnya, that is that of the conduct of the Russian troops in the republic. Although Budanov was clearly guilty, his main defence strategy was based on the assumption that Elsa Kungaeva was a sniper of the Chechen guerrillas and as such was considered an enemy combatant, and so what he did was quite justifiable.1
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9781137283399_2

>Dedovshchina Abuses: An Overview

>Alexander D. was one of many conscripts Human Rights Watch interviewed for its research on the Russian armed forces. Throughout our research, conscripts from all over Russia told us numerous versions of what was essentially one and the same story. They spoke about the dedy treating them like slaves, of the violent punishments they suffered at their hands, and of gratuitous abuse. They recounted the indifference and remoteness of the officers, and the increasing despair they felt at the prospect of a full year of initiation, and, eventually, their decision to runaway. There were exceptions, of course: the occasional conscript talked about a unit where there was no, or almost no, dedovshchina. Their stories varied greatly in details, as initiation practices vary to some extent from regiment to regiment and depend on local traditions, the personalities of the dedy, the first-year conscripts, and the officers. Yet, the uniformity of the testimony was striking.
https://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/russia1004/5.htm
>>

 No.456856

>>456853
You have to understand how these people think, they care about shaping the narrative. They want you to think and talk about questions relating to the moral character of Russians, so you don't question what the US or Ukranian side is up to, or the context of the situation.

The correct response here isn't to engage with this, there haven't been any reputable sources (which are few and far between these days) confirming any of these allegations. You have to ask your self what it is that they want to steer the conversation away from.

Within the Ukrainian forces there were many neo-nazis and it stands to reason that the people of fascistic persuasion haven't been conducting them self in the most moral of ways. They might be trying to distract from that.

The Selensky regime has basically abolished democracy by banning all 11 opposition parties, so the claim that opposing the Russians in the name of democracy is becoming untenable. Painting a picture of barbaric Russian hordes might be a new rationalization for the continuation of the war.

Another aspect to the vilification of Russia is about creating a public perception that is hostile to peace negotiations.

It could be non of the above, and this is about the Ukrainians finally conducting that big Kherson offensive, they have been talking about for months. Maybe it didn't go well, there is some information that suggest that the Ukrainians suffered massive losses. The Ukrainians also had two failed attempts at recapturing the Nuclear power plant in Zaporizhzhya.

Also the European population is increasingly focusing on the effect that inflation is having on their lives, and they want it to stop. Democratic consent is eroding quickly. And there was that now infamous German Politician Annalena Baerbock who while attending a public discussion panel in Prague sayed the quiet part out-loud and i paraphrase: "I don't give a shit about what the voters want, we are going to continue the war and sanctions". Some people are speculating that her anti-democratic sentiment might have been the catalyst for the big demonstrations in Prague that followed shortly after her comment.

The tldr is don't let them steer the conversation, and pay attention to what isn't being talked about.
>>

 No.456859

>>456854
Neither of your sources establishes "the worst rates of rape" as was claimed.
>>

 No.456862

>>456859
Homie, having soldiers from multiple regions and Divisions of your military all come forward and say they were ass raped ritually isn't a normal thing kek.
>>

 No.456863

>>456856
>I'M RIGHT AND I DON'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHY
>>

 No.456868

>>456862
Anecdotes still aren't hard statistics. Try harder.
>>

 No.456871

>>456868
You know other Western militaries don't have thousands of people saying they were initiated into their units with rape right?
>>

 No.456872

>>456871
"Thousands"?
>>

 No.456873

File: 1662612494360.png (83.34 KB, 314x736, UAoHMV8HRG5Vt.png)

>>456833
Maybe the protests didn't end the war but at least in Europe we knew it was only an excuse to invade them despite all the US propaganda. Most of the NATO countries didn't participate actively and France totally refused to send their troops.
>>

 No.456875

>>456872
Yes, this kind of hazing goes back to the mid 60's for Russia.
>>

 No.456877

File: 1662626820264.mp4 (1.3 MB, 1050x590, AdhKkgb_xfkuklsv.mp4)

OMG guys she said the thing!
>>

 No.456878

>>456877
>FLATTEN THE CURVE
<OOOO I'M FLATTEEEEEEENING
>>

 No.456879

>>456877
>white people in charge
>we must flatten all curves!
>>

 No.456880

>>456878
>>456879
I want to flatten her curve if you get what I'm saying *nudge* *nudge*
>>

 No.456886

Couple good pieces addressing the fake journalism and propaganda around the Ukraine proxy war recently, one by John Pilger and another an interview by Chris Hedges:
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/09/07/john-pilger-silencing-the-lambs-how-propaganda-works/
>>

 No.456887

>>456876
Lol no it's way worse. Hazing anal rape is non-existent in the US Army, and sexual assault is still vigorously prosecuted when it is obvious.
And that's 1 in 4 women, but women only make up 16% of the military, meanwhile the Russian military is 90% men and they're all getting butt fucked.
>>

 No.456888

>>456886
I used to love Chris Hedges but he's gone full retard along with the other "anti-imperialist" left whose political view were not more sophisticated than "US BAD!".
I've looked up some of the people he sites and they are more often than not cranks and tankies with glaring biases.
Reporting on things that are by no means settled as much as he makes it out to be or outright lies by omission.
When Russia is defeated and the true scope of their crimes comes into focus, all these "anti-imperialists" are going to have to go back to the woods.
Really said, before all this they were based critics of the US.
>>

 No.456889

File: 1662676822789.png (485.51 KB, 500x500, coloncarrotbracket.png)

>>456888
>When Russia is defeated
Just keep saying it to yourself!
>>

 No.456890

>>456888
>When Russia is defeated and the true scope of their crimes comes into focus, all these "anti-imperialists" are going to have to go back to the woods.
What does go back to the woods mean? you don't know what you're talking about because radical leftists are already deep in the woods.
>>

 No.456891

>>456889
It's the 21st century, if the US couldn't pull off these type of Napoleonic conquests, Russia's backwards ass sure as fuck isn't going to.
>>456890
It means leaving the public's view.
>>

 No.456892

>>456891
>It means leaving the public's view.
Meanwhile they are milking the grift. Sometimes I wish I had no principles. I could have been just another grifter making mid to high 6 figures or even millions just grifting. First the 2015 anti-SJW youtube grift, then the Trump/Alt-Right grift, the anti-vaxx/Covid hoax grift, now the "Russia is le based, imperialism good when it's Eastern" grift. Who knows what the next grift will be once this current war is over.
>>

 No.456893

>>456892
Now that Trump is going to jail you coups do the Trump martyr grift.
>>

 No.456894

>>456891
99 percent of groups aren't in the public eye.
>>

 No.456895

>>456891
>these type of Napoleonic conquests
pure unhinged delusion
>>

 No.456896

>>456895
Go back to your hateful little cult .ogre
>>

 No.456897

File: 1662710539286.jpg (88.72 KB, 713x966, zigger.jpg)

>>456896
Nah I think you need to go back to reddit fam
>>

 No.456900

>>456896
It's hilarious how the tankies on .ogre need to cry to pro-tankie jannies to put down the banhammer on any leftists who oppose the Russian oligarchy's invasion of Ukraine and start countering their bs with logical, reasoned arguments with credible evidence that they can no longer just hand-wave away. Meanwhile here on LeftyChad the free speech board, the ogre tankies who stroll onto here and try to force their false consensus get annihilated in open intellectual debate as you can see itt
>>

 No.456901

>>456900
>any leftists
liberals aren't leftists
>>

 No.456902

>>456887
>the Russian military is 90% men and they're all getting butt fucked.
is this something you think about a lot?
>>

 No.456903

>>456886
Chris Hedges is based and journalism-principled
thanks a lot for posting him

>>456888
>I used to love Chris Hedges but he's gone …
he didn't change, you did.
The liberals lurched to the right, and they dragged you with them.
>>

 No.456905

>>456900
>more unhinged psychobabble
Trying your best to thoroughly evacuate the word "tankie" of meaning, eh?
>>

 No.456906

>>456902
It must be something those soldiers think about a lot when they wake up in cold sweat, wondering if their booty is safe.
>>

 No.456907

File: 1662728464139-0.jpg (186.88 KB, 1080x1497, 20220909_135904.jpg)

File: 1662728464139-1.jpg (131.52 KB, 1080x1065, 20220909_135908.jpg)

Liberal goes mask-off as a fascist moment #4382973
>>

 No.456908

>>456803
Org will ban you if you tell them that the reddit brigade meme is not real, and will get angry when you tell them that Russian command should probably pull back and re-establish defense instead of putting more troops in a position that will soon be cut off. This is like 1941 in Sevastopol, when the Soviets refused to dig in and build entrenchments because they were "preparing a counterattack." What these cucks don't realize is that counterattacks require tactical infrastructure, and a bunch of routing BTGs are not conducive to sound tactical exploits.
>>

 No.456909

>>456897
If you're not trolling you need to touch grass.
>>456905
>Tankie is a meaningless slur, let me tell you how meaningless it is.
OK tankie.
>>456903
>he didn't change, you did.
>The liberals lurched to the right, and they dragged you with them.
No, I did my homework and am not spooked by long dead ideology. Most of his evidence is conjecture and real ass pulls at that.
Like blaming the petal mines in Donetsk on Ukraine.
His evidence was "Well, it serves no strategic value to Russia. So it must have been Ukraine." Even though that's true for Ukraine too and Russia has punished fleeing civilians with them in the past.
Him and the other "anti-imperialists" leftist built their brand on being anti American and not principled Marxism so now they're floundering.
I'm really sad TBH, I used to really look up to people like Abby Martin, now I've got to question everything I once accepted uncritically from them.
>>456902
Yes, because if a military is willing to rape themselves this much, god only knows what they're doing to people they see as subhuman.
>>

 No.456910

>>456897
You need to go back to Telegram.
>>

 No.456911

>>456909
It appears that you are just smearing Chris Hedges and Abby Martin, because they don't tow the line.
The official news coverage of the War in Ukraine can only be described as an exercise in inventing reality.
I'm not saying that you necessarily are a glowy, but you probably have bought into some of the imperial narrative. Hedges and Martin being experienced journalists and war correspondents obviously weren't fooled. If you are genuinely somebody who admires these two first-class journalists, you ow it to yourself to really reconsider the possibility that you are in the wrong and not them. You also have to consider that the journalistic content of those two have been censored to some degree, and that just gives them that much more credibility.

>Him and the other "anti-imperialists" leftist built their brand on being anti American and not principled Marxism

Building a brand ?
You are just mistaking ruthless criticism for something else. Marxists always went really hard after empire.
I'm not really an expert an American characteristics, but Marxists generally aren't attacking that. (No those cringe people who spell America with 3 "k"s don't count)
I'm considering Chris Hedges and Abby Martin to be genuine Americans, at least if you look at what Americans aspire to be. Specifically the part where they don't want to be silenced by the government.

You also have to understand something that isn't really expressed often, the sanctions are hurting the material interests of the workers.
On an intellectual level, this is class-war by the imperial bourgeoisie, dumping the cost of imperialism onto the workers while privatizing the profits of empire.
But on an emotional level harming the material interests of the workers is just an unthinkable evil.

Side note
If you say "tankie" i'm substituting "based proletarian armored division" in my head because the liberals have really eroded all meaning of that word, and it's more fun for me that way.
>>

 No.456912

>>456901
This isn't your tankie hugbox. Sneed
>>

 No.456913

File: 1662747347854.jpg (71.58 KB, 1920x1080, iamreddit.jpg)

>>456911
>It appears that you are just smearing Chris Hedges and Abby Martin, because they don't tow the line.
No, it's because I've noticed they have been using Tankie rhetorical tricks. Hedges casting aspersions from using very suspect sources, and Abby just memory holing the whole war (Abby and Robbie Martin have spoken very little on the war, even though it's the biggest news story right now.)
>Hedges and Martin being experienced journalists and war correspondents obviously weren't fooled.
I don't think they were fooled, on the contrary, I think they are fully cognizant of their biased borderline propagandist coverage, which gives me serious pause. It'd be better for me if I thought they were simply being fooled.
Hedges and Martin are also, for lack of a better word, clout chasers. They're livelihood relies their followers remaining loyal to them and they've built up a very Hollywood style political narrative around their work (US=BAD, ANYONE THAT HURTS US=GOOD).
Only hardcore neoliberals and racists like the GOP, Neo Nazis, /pol/, are against Ukraine.
You and all of your pro-Russian company are diaspora of right wing.
>If you are genuinely somebody who admires these two first-class journalists, you ow it to yourself to really reconsider the possibility that you are in the wrong and not them.
It is a possibility that I always entertain. But I will also not ignore the glaring biased and contrarian reporting these journalists are suddenly indulging in.
>You are just mistaking ruthless criticism for something else. Marxists always went really hard after empire.
You are being willfully blind to how journalism functions in the social media age.
>I'm not really an expert an American characteristics, but Marxists generally aren't attacking that. (No those cringe people who spell America with 3 "k"s don't count)
I don't consider tankies Marxists.
>On an intellectual level, this is class-war by the imperial bourgeoisie, dumping the cost of imperialism onto the workers while privatizing the profits of empire.
The reality is that workers are culpable in the wars of their countries when they support it. Russians for the most part support the Ukraine war. Putin has deftly conscripted only the poorest rural young men into this meat grinder, which is how he maintains support among the urban middle class. This is a story as old as time, workers will gleefully support a war of aggression as long as they personally don't have to fight it.
>You also have to consider that the journalistic content of those two have been censored to some degree,
I was a big fan of both and receive all their content directly from them.
>>

 No.456914

File: 1662749290004-0.png (232.16 KB, 2856x682, screenshot (archive).png)

File: 1662749290004-1.png (65.98 KB, 1570x414, screenshot (current).png)

Lmao at the zfags on .ogre being so asshurt that they needed to delete this post (pic rel, the archive pic):
https://archive.ph/4jHA1#1162730
Nice echo chamber hugbox you got there. The archives always remember.
https://leftypol.org/leftypol/res/1161545.html#1162735
Your cognitive dissonance is not my problem. Sneed >>456808
>>

 No.456915

>>456914
nobody cares about your incel shit, return to /pol/
>>

 No.456916

>>456913
>I am a reddit user
I believe you.
The rest of your post is just sectarian ramblings.

Chris Hedges and Abby Martin are fine journalists.
>>

 No.456917

File: 1662749739504-0.png (882.94 KB, 2708x1146, screenshot.png)

File: 1662749739504-1.png (204.13 KB, 2708x570, screenshot .png)

File: 1662749739504-2.png (369.28 KB, 2700x1210, screenshot .png)

File: 1662749739504-3.png (93.25 KB, 1578x602, screenshot .png)

Topkek. Another example of a zfag getting annihilated on ogre.
https://leftypol.org/leftypol/res/1152908.html#1153239
https://archive.ph/9FwbW
Delicious sneed
>>

 No.456920

>>456916
What's wrong with Reddit?
>>

 No.456921

>>456916
>Clearly state why they are uncomfortable with the ethics of a anti-imperialist journalist.
>Partisan
You tankies have zero credibility, no one cares about your opinion. Make some actual arguments.
I want nothing more than critique of US imperialism, but it has to be unbiased for it to appeal to anyone but sycophants like yourself.
>>

 No.456922

>>456917
>barely 30k civilian deaths
Jesus Christ tankies really do see everyone as pawns.
>>

 No.456923

>>456916
>Hedges citing cranks and cuckoos.
>Abby and Robbie just straight up won't talk about it.
>Hehe clearly you can't handle how based and redpilled anti-imperalists they are.
It's like you can't read or something.
>>

 No.456924

>>

 No.456925

>>456920
>What's wrong with Reddit?
Well it's no secret that Reddit is extremely heavily propagandized.
I don't know the details but apparently there is a PR operation in Langley that is influencing public opinion on Reddit. Reddit gives the appearance that it's a site driven by organic user-democracy, but it's not. It's not just biased algorithms or the glowies that put the thumb on the scale, it's also regular corporate astroturfing. I don't know if all the sub-reddits are effected or if it's just the popular ones.

>>456921
I think you have no credibility because your sectarian demeanor is just childish.
I don't have the impression you are arguing in good faith, if you were you would not use expressions of social exclusion.
I could give you a Marxist exposition on the structure of imperialism, but i suspect that your position is fixed to "both side are equally bad" because in the range of allowed opinions, within the pantheon of ruling ideology, that is the furthest to the left you can go. In my experience people like you will refuse any realities outside of that and aggressively engage in gate-keeping.

I also think you are dead set on trashing the reputation of the rather excellent journalists like Chris Hedges and Abby Martin.
>>

 No.456926

>>456914
When, not if, Russia loses this war, I wonder how they're going to cope. At this rate, even full mobilization won't be producing effective soldiers for some time, not to mention the materiel requirements to sustain a large military presence. Ukraine is going to run wild until Russia gets its shit together in the east, and it doesn't seem likely. The southern front also isn't looking good for Russians. If the Ukrainians can cross the river before the end of the month, they will have basically won this war. They will just have to wait until the weather freezes to continue the attack. I do not think that Russia can afford losses this big on both fronts. Expect Russian feelers for peace negotiation in the next two weeks.
>>

 No.456927

File: 1662758603619.png (309.02 KB, 1575x662, It's over.png)

>>456926
lol
Lmao, even.
>>

 No.456930

File: 1662760868061.jpg (1.29 MB, 1024x768, peewee.jpg)

>>456925
>Well it's no secret that Reddit is extremely heavily propagandized.
Reddit is also the largest website in the world that infamously delegates all control of it's subreddits to it's users.
Is being on the autism spectrum a requirement to being an tankie? Because the "le reddit" meme was clearly always tongue in cheek but you've long stopped using the pejorative ironically and think it's an actual substantive argument.
>Reddit gives the appearance that it's a site driven by organic user-democracy, but it's not.
It's way more democratic than imageboards, which you hold up in esteem.
>It's not just biased algorithms or the glowies that put the thumb on the scale, it's also regular corporate astroturfing. I
That's true of anything online. But it's also true that Reddit is so vast that there's plenty of parts that are not effected by any of this.
>I think you have no credibility because your sectarian demeanor is just childish.
I really don't care, arguments stand on their own merits. I couldn't care less about my reputation on a Vietnamese Beetle Cage Fighting Forum so you can stop with these trite social ostracization tactics. Like seriously, get a life.
>I could give you a Marxist exposition on the structure of imperialism,
And this thread has already shown why this war is over oil and land for the service of capitalist enterprises.
Do you really think the only consideration on whether a war is justified is if meets the narrow definition of Lenin's imperialism?
>I also think you are dead set on trashing the reputation of the rather excellent journalists like Chris Hedges and Abby Martin.
I think you are a fair weather fan of both because they stupidly support your tankie politics. I've been a fan of both for years and am even a Patron supporter of Abby.
Their turn is very disappointing to me.
>>

 No.456931

File: 1662763949290.jpg (63.44 KB, 700x536, war inc.jpg)

>>456930
I think Chris Hedges writes exelent articles:

<No one, including the most bullish supporters of Ukraine, expect the nation’s war with Russia to end soon. The fighting has been reduced to artillery duels across hundreds of miles of front lines and creeping advances and retreats. Ukraine, like Afghanistan, will bleed for a very long time. This is by design.


<On August 24, the Biden administration announced yet another massive military aid package to Ukraine worth nearly $3 billion. It will take months, and in some cases years, for this military equipment to reach Ukraine. In another sign that Washington assumes the conflict will be a long war of attrition it will give a name to the U.S. military assistance mission in Ukraine and make it a separate command overseen by a two- or three-star general. Since August 2021, Biden has approved more than $8 billion in weapons from existing stockpiles, known as drawdowns, to be shipped to Ukraine, which do not require Congressional approval.


<Including humanitarian assistance, replenishing depleting U.S. weapons stocks and expanding U.S. troop presence in Europe, Congress has approved over $53.6 billion ($13.6 billion in March and a further $40.1 billion in May) since Russia's February 24 invasion. War takes precedence over the most serious existential threats we face. The proposed budget for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in fiscal year 2023 is $10.675 billion while the proposed budget for the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is $11.881 billion. Our approved assistance to Ukraine is more than twice these amounts.


<The militarists who have waged permanent war costing trillions of dollars over the past two decades have invested heavily in controlling the public narrative. The enemy, whether Saddam Hussein or Vladimir Putin, is always the epitome of evil, the new Hitler. Those we support are always heroic defenders of liberty and democracy. Anyone who questions the righteousness of the cause is accused of being an agent of a foreign power and a traitor.


<The mass media cravenly disseminates these binary absurdities in 24-hour news cycles. Its news celebrities and experts, universally drawn from the intelligence community and military, rarely deviate from the approved script. Day and night, the drums of war never stop beating. Its goal: to keep billions of dollars flowing into the hands of the war industry and prevent the public from asking inconvenient questions.


continue reading:
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/ukraine-and-the-politics-of-permanent

he is absolutely correct, War is a racket.
>>

 No.456932

File: 1662763979502.jpg (382.02 KB, 1449x998, Bidenisback.jpg)

I'm happy to see that leftychan is now libchan. All tankies, commies, anarchists and other godless leftists need to move out, because only badass capitalist liberals are allowed on here now.
>>

 No.456933

>>456932
Your fingers broken? You wanna say something speak fool. Don't go blubbering on about how your hug box is gone.
>>

 No.456934

>>456933
Kek.

>>456932
>Everyone who disagree with me is XYZ!!!!!!
>>

 No.456935

>>456930
>Reddit is also the largest website in the world that infamously delegates all control of it's subreddits to it's users.
They have banned plenty of subreddits in the past when they became popular, it's not entirely controlled by their users. It happened mostly when they launched their mobile app. They didn't want to get banned by apple if new users started mass reporting the app because they saw a random post in their frontpage.
If they still allow subreddits that talk about politics (left or right) or other social events with a good amount of active users, it's mostly because their communities have evolved and now have a more mainstream mentality. The antiwork subreddit isn't an anarchist community anymore, it's about posting memes and out of context twitter screenshots.
>>

 No.456936

>>456932
Orgks ban anything not pro-Russia/pro-China/pro-NorK. It's only natural that the more moderate leftists come here. You simp for authoritarian capitalism as if it was a better alternative to liberal capitalism. I hate capitalism, but if I have to have it, I would rather have western-style liberal democracy than whatever the fuck is going on in Russia.
>>

 No.456937

File: 1662768067980.jpg (600.8 KB, 1920x1080, damaged.jpg)

>>456931
This is a perfect example of why I stopped listening to Hedges on Ukraine. I'll sum up each point and address it.

<No one, including the most bullish supporters of Ukraine, expect the nation’s war with Russia to end soon.

Don't know when this was written but it looks like it actually will.
<Ukraine, like Afghanistan, will bleed for a very long time. This is by design.
Muh NATO conspiracy theory. It's not NATO's fault that Russia got itself in a completely predictable quagmire.
<On August 24, the Biden administration announced yet another massive military aid package to Ukraine worth nearly $3 billion. It will take months,
More complaining about the cost, all while ignoring the far more detrimental impact this war is having on Russia's economy.
<The proposed budget for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in fiscal year 2023 is $10.675 billion while the proposed budget for the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is $11.881 billion. Our approved assistance to Ukraine is more than twice these amounts.
This is really hamfisted whataboutism, the Ukraine war is not why important services in the US are being cut. That's been going on for 40 years.
<The enemy, whether Saddam Hussein or Vladimir Putin, is always the epitome of evil, the new Hitler.
My GAWD talk about hyperbole. It doesn't take propaganda to hate an invading force that smashed a country and it's citizens for specious as fuck "de-nazification" reasons.
<Anyone who questions the righteousness of the cause is accused of being an agent of a foreign power and a traitor.
No, Chris is being questioned because he is clearly pushing a pro-Russian agenda. Reporting on weakly supported stories while ignoring the context of extreme Russian aggression that's been occurring in Ukraine since 2014.
<The mass media cravenly disseminates these binary absurdities in 24-hour news cycles. Its news celebrities and experts, universally drawn from the intelligence community and military, rarely deviate from the approved script.
This is also true of the pro-Russian side, which Chris continually implies is unbiased because US BAD! This also doesn't mean what they're saying is untrue. Russia is deeply corrupt and it's unknowingly giving it's opponents all it needs to make them look bad.
It's just hard for "anti-imperalists" that have made a career of bashing the US that Russia could be even more craven and murderous, even though that was clear since at least Chechnya.
>>

 No.456941

>>456937
>extreme Russian aggression that's been occurring in Ukraine since 2014.
Still asshurt that 95% of Crimea voted that they didn't like you, huh?
>>

 No.456942

>>456941
Lol that election was a joke, Russian boots were on the ground and the FSB had been supporting separatists for years.
>>

 No.456944

File: 1662786965538-0.png (447.62 KB, 1930x564, screenshot.png)

File: 1662786965538-1.png (504.76 KB, 1948x1374, screenshot1.png)

File: 1662786965538-2.png (205.85 KB, 1646x820, screenshot2.png)

Another example of zfags getting btfo and crying to zfag jannies to "BAN HE!" and "Delet his posts!" because they were triggered and had no response. In this case, the zfags were denying that Russia sent the "little green men" (Russian troops in unmarked uniforms) into Ukraine in 2014 and that Putin himself had admitted to this.
https://archive.ph/cFmYf
>>

 No.456945

File: 1662787285444-0.png (185.38 KB, 1990x690, screenshot3.png)

File: 1662787285444-1.png (218.72 KB, 1968x886, screenshot4.png)

File: 1662787285444-2.png (168.51 KB, 2760x600, screenshot5.png)

>>456944 (cont.)
>CuRiOuS. WhY dOn't YoU gO FinD it tHeN.
Proof was provided straight from the Kremlin itself (from its transcripts of Putin's speeches/interviews) to Putin admitting to the Russian "little green men" in Crimea in 2014. Predictably, no response and the triggering ensued. Notice how the post was deleted (5th and final screenshot).
https://leftypol.org/leftypol/res/1152908.html#1163343
But it's ok though, little zfags. The archives always remember. Sneed.
https://archive.ph/cFmYf#q1163344
>>

 No.456947

>>456945
>But it's ok though, little zfags. The archives always remember. Sneed.
unfathomably based.
>>

 No.456953

>>456942
In what manner were they a joke? Have you ever stopped and thought, just a second, how completely retarded it is to assert that a huge percentage of the population somehow voted with a gun to their heads? How the fuck would that even work in practice? Go to the polls or we shoot you? The exit polls were quite clear and, despite the rats at the OSCE attempting to throw shade on it by refusing to observe, there were many other third party election observers on the ground to legitimize it.
>>

 No.456955

Excellent interview through Scott Ritter of a Donbas field commander a few days ago. At the very end he is asked about the Nazis in Ukraine and he gives such a clear materialist explanation that you'd think he was a Marxist.
>>

 No.456956

>>456955
what about Wagner and the Night Wolves? They're way worse than any Ukrainian "nazis" (they're ultranationalists, actually).
>>

 No.456957

>>456956
what about ur mum
>>

 No.456961

>>456957
>>456956
>Tankies still mad that fash are far more prevalent in Russia.
Harty kek
>>

 No.456963

>>456961
Man I can’t even comprehend tankie beliefs even are by this point man, hese niqqas are fucking revolting

They’ve degenerated to a point where they seethe about “moralism” (disgust at murderous imperialist wars) yet their entire politics boils down to “America and the West are inherently evil and their actions are wrong because they are committing them, not because the actions themselves are wrong”
>>

 No.456965

>>456955
>At the very end he is asked about the Nazis in Ukraine and he gives such a clear materialist explanation that you'd think he was a Marxist.
Yes, it's very materialist to kill and make civlians homeless to protect them from the non-exisistant threat of Nazis killing them and making them homeless.
>>

 No.456967

>>456963
Idk why you're just saying tankie and tankie this over and over when this is a mainstream leftist belief.
>>

 No.456968

>>456967
LMAO the aboslute delusion of tankies.
>>

 No.456969

>>456967
>Why do you keep saying tankies?
Because tankies are absolute fuckwads and an increasingly hysterical parody of Marxism
>America inherently bad and actions bad cuz America is a mainstream leftist view!
No it’s a multipolarista pro-imperialist fucktard view
>>

 No.456973

>>456955
>At the very end he is asked about the Nazis in Ukraine and he gives such a clear materialist explanation that you'd think he was a Marxist.
Yeah that was a solid analysis.

The natoids in this thread try to downplay those fascistic elements.
>>

 No.456974

>>456973
>If you don’t support Russia you support NATO
The sheer retardation I’ve seen since 2020 unironically totally snapped me out of tankiedom

Like holy fuck I can’t stand you absolute retards
>Nuance only exists when a country I like is killing civilians!
Fuck you faggots
>>

 No.456975

File: 1662835261426.webm (1.82 MB, 424x240, LISTEN - Noam Chomsky exp….webm)

Noam Chomsky predicted all of this this would happen in 2014
>>

 No.456976

>>456968
>>456969
Leftists were supporting the murderous as fuck FLN and ignoring Soviet imperialism in Hungary, while consistently condemning the imperialism of France. Tankies or whatever aren't any different except the Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore.
>>

 No.456977

I'm sure the anti-tankies wouldn't give a damn if it was the Soviet Union doing this lol. The only difference between these anti-tankies and tankies is that the tankies that are still left got mind-broken by the collapse of the Soviet Union, now they're just continuing to try and destroy western imperialism without the soviets.
>>

 No.456978

File: 1662835684766.png (15.04 MB, 4570x3146, ClipboardImage.png)

>>456976
>ignoring Soviet imperialism in Hungary
Uh no. There was a huge split among the global left (both in and out of the Eastern bloc) over the Soviet invasion of Hungary 1956 (and Czechoslovakia 1968). In fact, I'm pretty sure that was the historical origin of the term "tankie", as that's what the pro-Soviet intervention leftists were called. "Tankie" in reference to the Soviet tanks that rolled into the streets in Hungary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
>>

 No.456982

>>456978
The mainstream and majority of leftists were and still are in line with ignoring the imperialism of the soviets and supporting the FLN.
>>

 No.456984

>>456977
>I'm sure the anti-tankies wouldn't give a damn if it was the Soviet Union doing this lol.
Not true. I've argued with tankies before that USSR was imperialist, specifically with respect to its invasions of Hungary (1956), Czechoslovakia (1968), Afghanistan (1979-1989), and with the Soviets' joint economic/military support (with the USA) of Saddam Hussein's Iraq in his invasion of Iran (1980-1988).
>>

 No.456985

>>456976
>>456982
>FLN
Huh? I'm not even a tankie but the USSR wasn't even involved in the Algerian War for independence from France? Not sure how supporting the Algerian independence movement (against French colonial empire) would make one a "tankie" or "pro-empire".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_War
>>

 No.456991

File: 1662836749981.jpg (70.21 KB, 1220x632, cia breeds fascist element….jpg)

>>456974
What's with the unhinged reaction as soon as somebody mentions the fascistic elements in Ukraine

here watch this video:
https://odysee.com/@mixmastafreak:e/America,-Russia,-and-Ukraines-Far-Right:b
>>

 No.456993

>>456991
Because stating Ukraine government bad as a response to someone opposing Russia's invasion is only a clincher to retards that think opposition to Russia = support for its enemies
>>

 No.456996

Putinsisters…

>Putin has long claimed that he is “denazifying” Ukraine, but these claims are hypocritical.

>In the early 00s, a wave of revolutions swept across countries in the former Soviet Union, calling for democratic reform and changing of political leadership.
>Fearing a similar uprising could start in Russia, Putin’s Kremlin clandestinely fostered relationships with far-right groups and ultra-nationalists in a policy that has been dubbed “managed nationalism”.
>These groups proved vital in turning Russia into the authoritarian regime that we see today.
>However, these relationships also proved useful in Russia exerting its power abroad, and have cultivated groups that will now fight abroad, and train foreign white supremacists – all with deadly consequences.
>>

 No.457001

File: 1662837471376.png (594.48 KB, 878x900, your new home.png)

>>

 No.457005

>>456982
>the imperialism of the soviets
The Soviet Union can't be imperialist in marxist terms
Imperialism requires the formation of imperial finance capital. This happens when bank capital and industrial monopolist merge together. The Soviet Union had neither.

You can say that the Soviet Union was militaristic, but you can't say that it was imperialist. This is especially the case because the Soviet Union basically subsidized the satellite states, at the edge of the soviet block territory, with industrial development. Imperialism does the very opposite it prevents industrial development in imperialized regions. We can go on and look at all the anti-imperialist struggles that the Soviet Union supported. The Soviets basically ended the colonial system of imperialism, by funding and arming anti-colonial imperialists.

If in your opinion the Soviet conduct in Hungry1956 was wrong, you can just say that, there is no need to rape the marxist theory of imperialism.

Also the implication that the Soviet Union as capitalists is something that neo-liberal thinkers like Milton Freedman supported. It's an ideological tool that the neo-liberals use to say that there is no alternative to capitalism.
So if you don't like the Soviet type of socialism, just say that you don't like that type of socialism.
It's much less frustrating if you are intellectually honest and just criticize what you think was good and bad about Soviet socialism.
>>

 No.457006

>>457005
Lol, the Soviets were following the exact same M-C-M process as capitalists.
There's some differences between them and regular liberal booj, but the process remains the same.
>>

 No.457007

>>456991
>What's with the unhinged reaction as soon as somebody mentions the fascistic elements in Ukraine
<Why do people get mad when I try to justify the murder and displacement of thousands of civlians by smearing them all as Nazis.
You'd know the answer to this if you'd ever had sex.
>>

 No.457008

>>456993
Is that your way of admitting that Ukraine had fascist elements?
>>

 No.457010

File: 1662838305992-0.png (109.18 KB, 230x219, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1662838305992-1.png (236.67 KB, 1024x1395, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1662838305992-2.png (676.2 KB, 1280x1609, ClipboardImage.png)

>>457001
Sneed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_battle_for_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Russian_and_other_forces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group
>The Wagner Group itself was first active in 2014,[2] along with Utkin, in the Luhansk region of Ukraine.[64] In 2021, the Foreign Policy report noted the origin of the name "Wagner" to be unknown.[47] Others say the group's name comes from Utkin's own call sign "Wagner", reportedly after the German composer Richard Wagner, which he is said to have chosen due to his passion for the Third Reich (Wagner being Adolf Hitler's favorite composer).[68][69] As such, some believe he is a neo-Nazi,[70][71] with The Economist reporting showing that Utkin has several Nazi tattoos.[69] Members of Wagner Group say Utkin is a Rodnover, a believer of Slavic native faith.[72] Radio Liberty cited insiders as saying that the leadership of the Wagner Group are followers of the Slavic Native Faith, a modern Pagan new religious movement.[6] In August 2017, the Turkish newspaper Yeni Şafak speculated that Utkin was possibly a figurehead for the company, while the real head of Wagner was someone else.[73]
>Various elements of Wagner have been linked to white supremacist and neo-Nazi far-right extremists,[50][69][51]
>The Wagner Group includes a contingent known as Rusich, or Task Force Rusich,[126] referred to as a "sabotage and assault reconnaissance group", which has been fighting as part of the Russian separatist forces in eastern Ukraine.[127] Rusich are described as a far-right extremist[74][128] or neo-Nazi unit,[129] and their logo features a Slavic swastika.[130] The group was founded by Alexey Milchakov and Yan Petrovsky in the summer of 2014, after graduating from a paramilitary training program run by the Russian Imperial Legion, the fighting arm of the Russian Imperial Movement.[131] As of 2017, the Ukrainian Prosecutor General and the International Criminal Court (ICC) were investigating fighters of this unit for alleged war crimes committed in Ukraine.[132]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta_Battalion
>According to Foreign Policy, the Sparta Battalion has "a reputation for ruthlessness".[5] It has committed war crimes in the Donbas. The battalion flies the black-yellow-white flag of the Russian Empire and, according to the European Eye on Radicalization, the unit "uses a combination of symbols of the Spartan military culture, well-known drivers of the far-right, and from the Tsarist era".[6] German anti-extremist news website Belltower described the militia as Russian ultranationalist and irredentist.[7]
>>

 No.457011

>>457006
Well the soviet planning system didn't function anything like capitalism, that's how they managed to not have any boom and bust cycles, economic recessions or depressions.

It's kinda sad that you have internalized neo-liberal ideology.
>>

 No.457012

>>457011
>that's how they managed to not have any boom and bust cycles
Right, they had one boom in the 1920's and then a long period of decline.
>>

 No.457013

>>457008
I have 0 interest in stanning any capitalist state on Earth, I would never even deny it

You're a retard if you think muh Nazis are the real reason Russia invaded Ukraine, but of course, you want to believe this is the reason, since you have no actual beliefs

Tankies are a parody of themselves by now
>>

 No.457014

>>457010
I don't think i would trust Wikipedia for politically sensitive topics
>>

 No.457015

>>457011
>It's kinda sad that you have internalized neo-liberal ideology.
It's sadder to internalize long debunked Stalinist ideology that's not even relevent anymore.
>>

 No.457016

>>457014
>If it doesn't come for a Tankie friiendly site it's not true.
>>

 No.457017

>>457005
>Imperialism requires the formation of imperial finance capital.
Imperialism predates capitalism. Lenin pointed out in Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism:
>“Colonial policy and imperialism existed before the latest stage of capitalism, and even before capitalism. Rome, founded on slavery, pursued a colonial policy and practiced imperialism.
Or are you gonna seriously argue that the Mongols, Mughals, Timurids, Persian, Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians, Tsarist Russia etc. weren't imperialist? Lol
>>

 No.457018

File: 1662838778264.jpg (91.17 KB, 634x423, putin.jpg)

>>457008
Russia has more.
>>

 No.457019

>>457012
In it's initial phase the Soviet Union grew by 14% per year.
Even during the period dubbed "great stagnation" in the 80s they still had between 3-5% economic growth. No comparable capitalist economy ever managed to have such a strong economic performance. That's another empirical fact that conclusively refutes any claims about the Soviet union using capitalist economics.

Why do you try to lie about this, do you really want to shill for neo-liberal ideology ?
You can criticise the Soviet Union for many things but socialist economic planning was really effective, even with the limited means of computation of the 20th century.


>>457013
>You're a retard if you think muh Nazis are the real reason Russia invaded Ukraine
It wasn't THE reason, but it was A reason.
People in Russia suffered a lot from the Nazi invasion in ww2, they really despise Nazism.
Russia to this day has very strong anti Nazi-rules that are comparable to those in Germany.

I think that in real-politic terms the Russians were concerned with Nato expansion getting too close, and the Ukrainian Neo-nazis working together with the CIA.
>>

 No.457020

>>457019
>Muh WWII legacy!
Ziggers try to distinguish between propaganda for the masses and actual objectives guiding a state challenge!
>Muh Russian real politick
Tankoids try to overcome chauvinistic opportunism challenge (impossible!)
>>

 No.457022

>>457017
>Imperialism predates capitalism.
The capitalist mode of production produces a specific form of imperialism, that is driven by the imperial finance bourgeoisie.

We live in the capitalist system, the capitalist form of imperialism is what's relevant.

You can't understand the present by looking at it through the lens off for-example slave-societies that also formed empires.
>>

 No.457025

>>457010
>more Wikipedia shit
The point of lambasting Vice was to encourage you to produce a more credible source, not a less credible one.
>>

 No.457026

This thread on .ogre that's blowing up today is hilarious. Thought I'd post the archive here in case a janny nukes it:
https://archive.ph/COLdz
>>

 No.457027

>>457026
lol these people are crazy… You see posts hoping for millions of Europeans to freeze to death in winter. How are working class Europeans (the class most affected by the situation with gas) any less proletarian than any other people, like the Russian working class? Well they aren't, but a lot of these lunatics think so.
>>

 No.457028

I don't support either side but I want to see Russia lose so I can laugh at multipolarista shills.
>>

 No.457029

>>457027
Yeah, and when they get called out on their hypocrisy (like for example Russia and China supporting Israel and arming Saudi Arabia for their capitalist profit interests just like the US does) they have no retort but to screech "westoid" "natoid" over and over again.
>>

 No.457030

>>457028
Lol based. They've really shitted up the board on .ogre. Turned it into a pro-Putin hugbox echo chamber
>>

 No.457031

It's easy to have a fake tankie consensus on your board when you ban dissenting opinions. Smells like what happened with OldBO and Rojava posters a few years back
>>

 No.457035

I am neither a "tankie" nor do I support that other site's at this point nakedly corrupt and self-serving moderation. I also think the USSR basically went to shit from the very beginning when Lenin decided to implement the state capitalism of the German Empire instead of anything resembling workers' control over the means of production. Your tactic of calling everyone who prefers to live in the evidence-based world, in what is almost certainly the most aggressive media propaganda campaign of our lives, a "tankie" just because they don't swallow up moronic lines from Kiev, is incredibly hollow and transparent. It's so brashly intellectually dishonest that it genuinely makes me wonder if you do it for free or not.
>>

 No.457036

>another uncontrollable and energy wasting political struggle that will divide working class people more
These Ukraine threads are funny but should not be take serious at all.
>>

 No.457039

>>457028
whoever wins, it's going to be a a complete shitshow. i'm excited either way.
>>

 No.457040

File: 1662871445875.png (475.58 KB, 751x966, Screenshot 2022-09-11 at 0….png)

Dark Zvlensky is going to execute every member of Azov for being too liberal.
Dark Zvlensky is going to make Come and See look like The Teletubbies Movie.
Dark Zvlensky is going to make Putin savor the taste of molten silver.
Dark Zvlensky is going to show the world what Russia would look like if they lost at Stalingrad.
Dark Zvlensky is going to balkanize Eurasia by turning every square mile east of Donetsk into a feudal tenure.
Dark Zvlensky is going to make the 90's Russian Economic Depression look like Shanghri-La.
Dark Zvlensky is going to star in a Stephan Bandera biopic, rehabilitate the OUN to the world and win the Oscars.
Dark Zvlensky is going to initiate the Tenth Crusade on Dagestan.

Z-bros…..you're utterly fucked……
>>

 No.457041

File: 1662873717760.jpg (1.93 MB, 1920x2400, blacklives.jpg)

>>457019
>Even during the period dubbed "great stagnation" in the 80s they still had between 3-5% economic growth.
I don't know where this bullshit number came from, but the wall fell in 1989 as a direct result of the economic depression ravishing the Soviet Union.
All you tankies blame revisionism and Gorby for the collapse of the USSR. But the truth his Gorby was just the end result of a long ailing command economy system.
>That's another empirical fact that conclusively refutes any claims about the Soviet union using capitalist economics.
There's no way in fuck that's empirical. Why the fuck Soviet system collapse if it was doing so well.
>Why do you try to lie about this, do you really want to shill for neo-liberal ideology ?
Fuck your false dichotomy. Just because I'm against the demonstrably wrong command economy system, doesn't mean I support capitalism.
> but socialist economic planning was really effective, even with the limited means of computation of the 20th century.
It wasn't socialist, and it sure as fuck wasn't effective.
>>

 No.457047

File: 1662895869140-0.mp4 (6.61 MB, 1280x720, VID_20220911_072702_645.mp4)

File: 1662895869140-1.mp4 (8.08 MB, 576x1024, VID_20220911_072606_767.mp4)

Look at these Nazis killing ethnic Russians! They look to be in fear of Ukrop soldiers retaking their towns!
>>

 No.457048

>>457041
>the wall fell in 1989
>Soviet Union ended by Berlin Wall being torn down by kids in love and normies with sledgehammers
<not by it being dissolved by Gorbachov after a Uniom-wide referendum where the majority voted to keep the Union
<then the US giving Yeltsin billions to. dominate the Russian media and then still lose the election and have to rely on cheating in every single district to "beat" the communists in the election
<only to later crush popular resistance and a vote of no confidence on a FUCKING DRUNK, who was selling state assets left and right, by using tanks and the army to attack the Russian duma and kill a bunch of communists
Your understanding of history comes from Hollywood movies and liberal media. It's laughable.
>>

 No.457049

>>457048
>Tankie can’t help but miss the forest for the fucking trees
Fuck off with your idealist Great Man faggotry, Gorbachev represented a substantial faction of the Soviet bureaucracy that legitimately were concerned about the state of the Soviet Union’s economic development, you’re reciting a self-serving rote script that purposefully dances around the questions of why there were substantial reform factions in the bureaucracy, and also pro-capitalist factions, why the actual will of the working majority meant basically nothing, why the managers ended up becoming the new Russian capitalist class, why there was a thriving black market before all this, etc.
It’s like how can you people be so fucking retarded you can’t even explain why if the society was utopian a significant amount of the citizens (the majority) desired social reform, if it was so efficient and powerful it collapsed at all, and why as a thriving mass democracy it as a political entity could (in your mind) be destroyed by the actions of one or two people?
>>

 No.457050

File: 1662911786803.jpg (287.75 KB, 649x1600, halloween3.jpg)

>>457048
<not by it being dissolved by Gorbachov after a Uniom-wide referendum where the majority voted to keep the Union
Yeah more proof that the Politburo was unaccountable to the working class.
Russia's dysfunction today is a direct result of the failure of Marxist-Leninism.
One as >>457049 Gorby ascended to power and was able to dissolve the Soviet Union because it was so weak and backwards.
<then the US giving Yeltsin billions to. dominate the Russian media and then still lose the election and have to rely on cheating in every single district to "beat" the communists in the election
Yeah, and guess who coordinated all that
FUCKING PUTIN
You know the knob you tankies cannot stop slobbing on.
<only to later crush popular resistance and a vote of no confidence on a FUCKING DRUNK, who was selling state assets left and right, by using tanks and the army to attack the Russian duma and kill a bunch of communists
AGAIN PUTIN WAS CENTRAL TO ALL OF THAT
I will give you tankies credit for one thing. You're absolute fuck rock stupid lack of self awareness and basic history is staggering, you all maybe the purest example of the Dunning Kruger effect.
You all will tirelessly posture as absolute authorities on revolution and unflinchingly berate all your critics while comically revising or memory holing rudimentary and very contemporary history.
I honestly don't know how you maintain your cognitive dissonance of simultaneously being the biggest boors on the internet while also acting as if people can't easily find out the truth behind what you're saying using said internet.
>>

 No.457051

>>

 No.457052

>>457050
>tankies love Putin!
Can you please blow your brains out already? Your posts have become too embarrassing for words.
>>

 No.457053

>>457052
Tankies have been choking on Putin’s cock ever since the start of the Ukraine War
Like holy fuck, the audacity of you niqqas denying the shit you’re otherwise proudly doing right as we speak
>>

 No.457056

File: 1662925345929.jpeg (107.22 KB, 2048x314, 9BADF960-CE4F-4DD4-B767-A….jpeg)

Tankies really have become a pathetic parody of themselves
>>

 No.457057

>>457052
You guys are the one's that have been calling everyone a NATO stooge because the US is opportunistically helping Ukraine, the 2014 Euro Maiden protests a glowie op, all while licking the boots of a ruler literally installed by the CIA kek.
>>

 No.457058

It's already pretty pathetic to simp and grovel for a country you have no connection with.
>>

 No.457059

File: 1662932358168.webm (169.51 KB, 372x360, 1662921500369213.webm)

This war looks like it might be over by Christmas.
>>

 No.457060

>>457059
What makes you say that?
>>

 No.457061

>>457060
The counteroffensive is going well.
>>

 No.457062

File: 1662941168087.jpg (201.35 KB, 904x1333, 1662936557538056.jpg)

>>457060
Russia is destroying infrastructure in territory they occupy, a sign that they don't plan on staying.
>>

 No.457063

>>457061
Not from what I've seen
>>

 No.457064

File: 1662948428321.mp4 (1017.16 KB, 404x720, laughingwaterfowl.mp4)

>>457059
>GDP of Russian Federation: $4.365 trillion
>GDP of Ukraine: $198 billion
>population of Russian Federation: 145,478,097
>population of Ukraine: 41,167,336
Sure thing. Any day now!
>>

 No.457066

File: 1662952463228.gif (3.81 MB, 480x270, giphy.gif)

>year 2000
>GDP of the State of Israel: $132.7 billion
>GDP of Lebanon: $17.26 billion
>population of the State of Israel: 6,289,000
>population of Lebanon: 3,843,000
Sure thing. Any day now!
>>

 No.457067

File: 1662954074613.png (540.44 KB, 1630x992, ClipboardImage.png)

>>457047
Kek
>>456791
>*Fortune Son intensifies*
>>

 No.457068

As an American I would have handled this war like our totalitarian reactionary generals do. On day 1 I would have a massive bombing campaign all over Ukraine. Rocket all the infrastructure all over the country turn the lights off for as long as possible, nobody will have water, power, or know what is going on. Russians tried some blitzkrieg shit and it failed, only attack from one direction with as much pain and firepower as fast as possible.
>>

 No.457069

>>457068
What the Russians did at the start is greedy, they wanted Ukraine forcefully under their influence, but didn't want to hearm anything. They should have gone all out cause now they have a prolonged war again, this is gonna be like Syria.
>>

 No.457070

>>457064
Russia's population doesn't matter since Putin is maintaining support for this war by using mostly very poor rural conscripts.
If he does "mobilize" (read: start the draft) he will immediately lose support a la Vietnam.
What Putin has in this war is all he can realistically put in.
>>

 No.457071

>>457070
I've heard the Russian population is going through a massive decline for some time.
>>

 No.457072

>>457028
>I don't support either side but I want to see Russia lose
<I don't support either side but I want to one side to lose
When you are a NATO campist but want to appear as neutral
>>

 No.457073

>>457072
>when you are Putin campist coping
In past week Ukraine just routed the Russians and took back 3,000 sq km of their territory. More territory than Russia took in the entire war since April.

The Russian invaders got routed. Sorry about that "Rosskiy mir" Russian empire "bro". Sneed
>>

 No.457074

>inb4 planned withdrawal
yeah I'm sure that's why the Russians left a ton of their ammo dumps, armored vehicles, and weapons behind as they retreated from Kharkiv front post-haste topkek
>>

 No.457075

File: 1662967817527.jpg (513.41 KB, 1536x1945, o-JFK-facebook.jpg)

>Invade an entire country because they are allying with nations you don't like.
Even burgerland wasn't stupid enough to do with with Cuba.
>>

 No.457076

>>457075
>JFK
I miss him like you wouldn't believe. If he hadn't been assassinated and then followed up by decades of increasingly right-wing Presidential successors, America would unironically be a Finland-tier social democracy right now.
>>

 No.457078

>>457031
>It's easy to have a fake tankie consensus
I just want to point out that the people who are using this type of rhetoric (calling people they disagree with a "tankie"), are trying to generate fake consensus as well
It's the attempt to create an opinion echo-chamber.

So in case a third party reads this, you should only engage with that kind of dishonest discourse to explain the mechanism of social manipulation.

So in this case calling somebody "a tankie" is substituting a reasoned argument for social-ostracizing. This way of conducting politics originated in the liberal political sphere but unfortunately this always spills over into socialist discussions as well because many people have that as baggage.

technically it's just sectarianism
>>

 No.457079

>>457035
>I also think the USSR basically went to shit from the very beginning when Lenin decided to implement the state capitalism of the German Empire instead of anything resembling workers' control over the means of production. Your tactic of calling everyone who prefers to live in the evidence-based world, in what is almost certainly the most aggressive media propaganda campaign of our lives, a "tankie" just because they don't swallow up moronic lines from Kiev, is incredibly hollow and transparent. It's so brashly intellectually dishonest that it genuinely makes me wonder if you do it for free or not.

This is a good general attitude, but you should not make a unilateral judgement on the Soviet Union, i think that the Chinese way of analyzing the past is more helpful, they judge past leaders by the percentage of correct decisions. So for example Mao is considered to have been 70% right and 30% wrong. We could do the same with Lenin Stalin and all the other Soviet leaders. We would have to go over soviet history and then tally up the decision tree. We probably would have remaining points of disagreement but also much better understanding of what worked and what didn't.
>>

 No.457080

>>457078
>I just want to point out that the people who are using this type of rhetoric (calling people they disagree with a "tankie"), are trying to generate fake consensus as well
>It's the attempt to create an opinion echo-chamber.
Except leftists who aren't tankies don't have the janny team on .ogre at their beck and call to ban/delete dissenting opinions and posters that trigger their cognitive dissonance like the pro-Russian imperialist tankies and zfags do. Nice false equivalence
>>

 No.457081

File: 1662971999872.gif (6.79 KB, 143x128, trollface.gif)

>>457040
I think [Z]elensky might go into the history books of conducting the most successful campaign of revolutionary defeatism. Because the sheer numbers of Azov-fascists he had marched into the Russian heavy artillery fire, is just astonishing.

As socialists we have to admit we lack that callous creative cruelty of the neo-liberal ghouls and as a result we are less effective. Could you imagine socialists in WW2 going for leadership roles in the ranks of the fascists and then herd them to their deaths. That would have been so much more effective than laying waste to an entire continent.
>>

 No.457082

Tankies:
>"Leftists who don't agree with us that the left should support Russia's invasion of Ukraine along with all the Russian war crimes against the "hohol pig Ukrop" civilians?
>"Jannies! BAN HE! Delet their posts! le westoids, le natoids, le reddit!"
Non-tankie leftists:
>"Hmm… this .ogre board seems suspiciously like a pro-Z echo chamber hugbox. It'd be nice to at least be able to debate these pro-Z posters without them near instantly crying to jannies to 'BAN HE' and 'delet his posts!' for some spurious pretext like 'glow' (translation: you triggered our Z-hugbox)."
>>457078 (You):
>"Ah yes, the latter wants an opinion echo chamber just like the former!"
>"I'm totally not a triggered .ogre making a false equivalence"
>>

 No.457083

>>457041
>he wall fell in 1989 as a direct result of the economic depression ravishing the Soviet Union.
Yeah that's called neo-liberal shock doctrine.
And it proves the superiority of socialist planning.
Even at the end of the Soviet Union where the planning system was a little borked, and operating far from optimally.
But as soon as they introduced capitalism it all went to shit, 12 million starved in the neo-liberal-market-holocaust, general life expectancy dropped, and birth-rates tanked. The economic output fell by 40%. And Russia to this very day hasn't fully recovered from that despite that it has been 30 years, that#s how brutal neo-liberal shock-doctine was.

We really should consider neo-liberal shock doctrine like a great evil like other historical mass-murderings.

So the Soviet system had a lot to be criticized, but it was an effective economic system that was able to produce a lot of economic growth and it kept people alive and somewhat comfortable, that something you can't say about Neo-liberal capitalism.

In the Soviet Union even the poorest prole could afford to heat in winter
>>

 No.457084

>>457050
>Yeah more proof that the Politburo was unaccountable to the working class.
It's fair criticism to say that the Soviet Political system failed to prevent the Sellouts from getting into power

>Russia's dysfunction today is a direct result of the failure of Marxist-Leninism.

That is not a fair point, the ML system made Russia into a Super-power.
The problems of today's Russia are mostly the result of the neo-liberals destroying their economy in the 90s.
>>

 No.457085

>>457057
>calling everyone a NATO stooge
Given the insane volume of NATO propaganda that have been directed at the EU and USA, that reaction is somewhat understandable.

>because the US is opportunistically helping Ukraine

Yeah that's the official NATO propaganda narrative.

The undeniable reality is the US overthrew the Ukrainian government and is now sacrificing Ukraine as an abrasive battering tool to attack the Russian Federation. The US is definitely the originator of this war and the main aggressor.
they are just doing covert warfare and economic warfare.
>>

 No.457086

>>457062
>Russia is destroying infrastructure in territory they occupy, a sign that they don't plan on staying.
Not necessarily, Russia is friends with China, and they have a lot of overcapacity for infrastructure construction. Putin and a Russian diplomatic entourage was recently at a military exercise thing where the Chinese also participated, they could have made a deal about Chinese infrastructure reconstruction for Ukraine, and that why they now blow up Ukrainian infrastructure.
>>

 No.457087

File: 1662974473195.jpg (37.28 KB, 485x352, lolcat.jpg)

>>457068
>As an American I would have handled this war like our totalitarian reactionary generals do.
made me chuckle
thanks friend
>>

 No.457088

>>457072
I don't care which side losses I'm just here for entertainment.
>>

 No.457089

>>457076
>America would unironically be a Finland-tier social democracy
>still capitalist
>still the most corrupt democracy in history
Doesn't matter I will still be for the revolution.
>>

 No.457090

>>457073
>In past week Ukraine took back territory.
That is true, but the Ukrainians didn't take it by winning battles, they marched into territory the Russians evacuated.
The Ukrainians get credit for military cunning because they managed to outmaneuver Russian and Russian aligned forces.
However it has to be said that Russians chose to regroup. They would rather give up territory than to sacrifice their people and military gear to fight battles at a disadvantage.
The Ukrainians are still loosing this war because they don't do that, they loose their soldiers and their military equipment for territory. And because of that their forces are slowly dwindling.

You have to understand that you win a war by destroying the military forces of the enemy, not by holding territory, it's not a capture the flag tournament.

This wasn't a military defeat for Russia it was mostly a very big propaganda defeat, because people like to look at maps with front lines drawn on it.
>>

 No.457091

Honestly at this rate this war will be known as the second great patriotic war against Russian Nazism. After Ukraine kicks Russia out and liberates Crimea they very well might be able to take Moscow. The new expanded Ukrainian borders will be interesting, not the mention the balkanization and westernization of Russia.
>>

 No.457092

>>457080
You are not convincing me that by using these sectarian lables as the big other, because i think that it hides a lack of argument.

I think you are in the wrong for spamming these sectarian labels. The liberals are very fond of using that same label to attack anybody on the left, even the most docile social-democrat who just wants a little better social services and better working conditions.

It's also mildly annoying because none of the people who are the subject of your labeling campaign, control any tanks.

I'm restating the previous point for the sake of third parties who might be reading this: The reason that you are othering all these fellow leftists as "armored vehicle commanders" is because you are trying to create an opinion echo-chamber and the intention of that is to crowd out opposing opinions. I'm not saying this to make any equivalences. I saying this to remove the spell from this word.

To me you appear a little like a medieval person pointing the finger and screaming "Witch". I want the other people here to react by rolling their eyes, instead of building a metaphorical which-trial burning stake.
>>

 No.457093

>>457090
delicious cope lmao
>>

 No.457094

File: 1662977690717.png (1.94 MB, 1280x872, ClipboardImage.png)

>>457090
>they marched into territory the Russians evacuated.
Uh huh, yeah like how they just "evacuated" Kyiv right? And left all those burnt out tank columns on the road that got btfo by the Ukrainians' Javelins and NLAW's?
>>

 No.457095

>>457090
>However it has to be said that Russians chose to regroup.
Ahaha the cope came exactly like I predicted:
>>457074
As if the Russians had a choice in the matter lmao. They were forced to flee. They got defeated in battle and fled en masse, leaving all their ammo dumps and heavy equipment behind. The front collapsed. Ukraine inflicted a huge strategic defeat on Russia. Sneed
>>

 No.457096

>>457085
>The US single-handedly created this war (evidence, US greatest evil in whole world and all of history, very Marxist, me am
>Yes the US alone created massive protests of hundreds of thousands
>No Russia was not also influencing this situation from the start, Russia’s trade war against Ukraine to prevent it from trading with the EU has nothing to do with the war
>>457092
Man it really is crazy how little you people can handle criticism, it’s like you absolutely despise it, like it’s a cockroach crawling up your ass when you hear people shit on you

Face it, when someone calls you a tankie on Leftypol you know exactly what the fuck they mean and really you’re just pissed that people would tell you outright they disagree with your demeanor and political positions without you being able to sic the mods on them
>>

 No.457097

>>

 No.457098

If Russia has an actual serious loss the meltdown on .org will be funny.
>>

 No.457099

>>457098
Kek, ok now I'm rooting for Ukraine officially
>>

 No.457100

>>457096
>it really is crazy how little you people can handle criticism
>when someone calls you a tankie
how is that criticism, lib?
>>

 No.457103

>>457100
Calling you a tankie is simply a description of what you are, a likely virgin LARPer from the West drawn to old Soviet aesthetics that you use as a replacement for “politics” which is itself your replacement for “a personality”; part of this identity is of course always having a ready-made list of out-of-context Marx and Lenin quotes to justify any position you take no matter how deranged, schizo, or chauvinist (i.e. “Russia isn’t capitalist in any way that matters right now”)

Now calling you a “tankie” isn’t itself the criticism, it’s just describing who is being criticized
>>

 No.457104

>>457100
And to add on, the difference between us is that when I say “tankie” I’m simply describing what form of degenerate I’m discussing before starting the actual criticism, when tankoids call people “liberal” or “fascist” most of the time it’s made to shut down a criticism or statement without countering a single claim, I imagine this is why you see “tankie” itself as the insult; when of course people say “tankie” to clarify they’re discussing self-described leftists but not anarchists nor all communists
>>

 No.457107

>>457100
>how is that criticism, lib?
OMG just leave already
>>

 No.457108

>>457076
Bro, JFK set up the entire Vietnam conflict. LBJ was his successor in every way imaginable, just with a bigger penis.
>>

 No.457109

>>457081
>Fighting a war that I started, he he just as planned.
>>

 No.457110

>>457087
>>457068
Friend, that is exactly the way Russia attempted to start it. They failed at this task because they are incompetent and their equipment is shoddy. Just look at the Moskva. It didn't sink because Neptune missiles are fucking rad. It sunk because it was fucking broken and unmaintained yet given a clean bill of health. Russia's military only pretended to be competent.
>>

 No.457111

>>457083
OMG Tankies literally think every word of history written by the west is propaganda.
Gorby enacted reforms because the Soviet economy was in deep decline. The fact that everything collapsed in such a short amount of time shows how bad the rot was.
Glasnost or transparency of the Soviet system is what turned the people against the system the most. And like classic dictators, instead of handing over the economy to the people they sold them out to the booj.
>>

 No.457112

>>457108
No he didn't, and National Security Action Memorandum 57 showed he was about to end it.
What a lot of the left doesn't get is that like liberals and conservatives are not interchangeable. Dems are icy cold technocrats. Kennedy crunched the numbers and knew Vietnam couldn't be won so he was going to end it. Contrast that with Nixon and Johnson who were spooked by American exceptionalism.
>>

 No.457113

File: 1662999636197.png (12.49 KB, 1200x675, Reddit-Logo-Horizontal.png)

>>457112
>literal kennedy shill
>>

 No.457114

>>457112
The same was true in 2008 yet Obama let the War in Afghanistan drag on for his entire term
>>

 No.457115

>>

 No.457116

>>457068
>Russians tried some blitzkrieg shit
They really didn't.

>>457070
The Russian military hasn't been strapped for resources either. In reality the vast majority of ground fighting since February has been done by the militias in the Donbas, the support from the Russian military has mostly been air strikes and artillery.
>>

 No.457118

>>457116
>The Russian military hasn't been strapped for resources either.
Overall, no? But their logistics is garbage, and they are running low on precision munitions, which is why they are used sparingly. Russia has stuff, just no way to get it anywhere or anyone competent to use it.
>>

 No.457119

>>457092
It might have more impact if the name-calling was even remotely accurate ("tankies" are die-hard apologists for everything that happened in the USSR; the Russian Federation is not the USSR and Putin himself even shat on Lenin this year), but they're just throwing a word around where it doesn't even apply. The form of propaganda by repetition here is so crass and lazy that I doubt anyone takes it seriously.
>>

 No.457120

>>457119
This is why I say retarded tankoids have become a parody of themselves, they’ve gone from defending all actions of the Soviet government to effectively all actions of any government the US wants to subdue or overthrow; which is why their “ideology” has so heavily warped it can’t even really be called even a perversion of Marx anymore, just anti-Americanism with red paint

>Inb4 tankie insists the horde of maniacs ranting about how we must uphold Marx, Lenin, and Mao before going into full throated defense for Russia, Syria, the Taliban, etc. don’t real
>>

 No.457121

>>457119
>actually, the word Nazi only refers to the members of the NSDAP
Tankies are looking to replace their retarded love for the USSR. They didn't stop being tankies just because of that.
>>

 No.457122

>>457119
That's exactly what muh tankies would say.
>>

 No.457125

>>457113
>Kennedy faced a similar security situation over Cuba but didn't go full retard.
>REEEEEEE! Lib! Redditor!
Why are tankies like this.
>>

 No.457126

>>457103
>what you are
Everything you've written after that is wrong. You're fighting strawmen and imagined adversaries in your head. If you think you can correctly guess all those things about a person from a few posts, you are schizo, egotistical and/or narcissistic. If you were joking it'd be funny, but I don't think you are, I think you believe all those things you wrote, which is scary.
>>457104
>the difference between us is that when I say “tankie”
<I’m simply describing what form of degenerate I’m discussing
>when tankoids call people “liberal” or “fascist” most of the time it’s made to shut down a criticism or statement without countering a single claim,
Lack of self awareness is astounding.
<I imagine this is why you see “tankie” itself as the insult; when of course people say “tankie” to clarify they’re discussing self-described leftists but not anarchists nor all communists
Now you even admit "tankie" is an insult you use for people who disagree with you, rather than a meaningful category. Your description of the word is so specific as to be useless, "virgin who likes Soviet Union and quotes Marx and Lenin and so on".

Seek mental health help, I mean this sincerely. You're able to coherently explain how deranged you are, yet you don't see anything wrong with that behaviour. Therapy or medication might help you, you owe it to yourself.
>>

 No.457127

>>457107
Are you literally shaking and can't even any more?
>>

 No.457128

>>457119
But tankies are saying that Russia and China are anti-imperalist and some kind of prolitrait bulwark against US hegemony and berate anyone that doesn't support Russia for "le multipolarity".
>>

 No.457129

>>457114
>>457113
>Here is demonstrable proof that Kennedy was going to end the Vietnam war.
>That's something a Redditor would say.
ebin.
>>

 No.457130

>>457111
>instead of handing over the economy to the people
Maybe they could have ran their economy on platitudes.
>>

 No.457131

>>457126
>Haha, have you considered that actually, you’re wrong, and the people you’re criticizing don’t exist, and that any criticism of me or people like me, is false?
<See you’re wrong because, you said the word tankie, take that!
<<Anyway I can see, since you mocked me, you’re obviously insane, seek help
Do you people have any fucking idea how far internet circlejerks and jannies carry the shit you are?
>>

 No.457132

>>457128
How many countries where the people have elected a socialist/communist government or leader have the US, Russia and China coup'd or regime-changed, respectively?

The country who has done the most to stop socialists from coming to power around the world is the enemy of the world proletariat and its defeat should be cheered on and welcomed.
>>

 No.457133

>>457130
>THE WORKERS CAN'T OWN THE MOP, THAT'S CRAZY!
Do….you even know how you sound sometimes?
>>

 No.457134

>>457131
*the shit you argue
>>457126
>Your description of the word matches .ogre Leftypol, Hazfags, most of “ML” Reddit, most of tankie twitter, and half of every self-described MLs on the internet too close for comfort is uhhh “hyper specific” (i.e. it describes a specific thing at all)
Funny how you actual memetic retards will state this right after saying “tankie” is too broad of a term
>>

 No.457135

>>457128
>"le multipolarity".
I'll say it now, and I'll say it again. Multipolarity is just a euphemism for liberal democracies acquiescing to demands of autocratic nations like China and Russia. It also just died in its crib because of Russia chimping out and China realizing that Taiwan would be an equal or greater disaster. Nobody is under the illusion that democracies and dictatorships can coexist or some sort of retarded neo-liberal dream that "free markets make free people."
>>

 No.457136

>>457132
Wow, here comes the ebin “China and Russia are anti-imperialist capitalism!” Tankies will deny regularly stating
>>

 No.457137

>>457132
>How many countries where the people have elected a socialist/communist government or leader have the US, Russia and China coup'd or regime-changed, respectively?
Uh Belarus, Cheneya, Tibet, two chunks of Ukraine… Why do you tankies think no one can see the deep subersion that Russia has done to it's sourrounding governments. Russia has been crushing smaller governments under it's boot hell since the end of WWII.
>>

 No.457138

>>457129
>Kennedy was going to end the Vietnam war.
Proof? He repeatedly expanded SF presence in Vietnam right up to his death.
>>

 No.457139

>>457137
Don’t forget slaughtering the protesters in Kazakhstan
Like, how fucking blind do tankoids think people are?
>>

 No.457141

>>457138
>The Russian military hasn't been strapped for resources either.
Imagine believing this.
>>

 No.457142

>>457141
They have plenty of Mosin rifle. You see all troops with Mosin? Be like when dedushka beat the Nazis.
>>

 No.457143

>>457137
>Belarus
lol what?
>>

 No.457144

>>457141
>>457142
it's like reading r/worldnews comments
>>

 No.457146

>>457143
Belarus is a puppet state of Russia. The last election was especially contentious.
>>457144
>Saying Russia fell off is Reddit.
Cope, it's been widely known for 30 years that Russia's military is broken.
I've talked to a number of vets in the 90's Bosina peace keeping mission and they all describe Russia's gear as broken. This was years before the Ukraine invasion.
>>

 No.457147

>>457135
>It also just died in its crib because of Russia chimping out and China realizing that Taiwan would be an equal or greater disaster.
Yeah, most of China's equipment is Russian. Taiwan is really just a means to an end to control the South China Sea. I think China could take Taiwan, but the would absolutely get their shit pushed in if they tried to control the South China Sea afteward.
>>

 No.457148

>>457135
>I'll say it now, and I'll say it again. Multipolarity is just a euphemism for liberal democracies acquiescing to demands of autocratic nations like China and Russia. It also just died in its crib because of Russia chimping out and China realizing that Taiwan would be an equal or greater disaster.
This
>>457144
I love Reddit and there's nothing you can do to stop me.
>>

 No.457149

>>457146
Lukashenka has been president longer than Putin. Belarus has the highest standard of living of any ex-Soviet country. seethe, liberal
>I've talked to a number of vets in the 90's Bosina peace keeping mission
Yeah, fucking UNPROFOR vets. Like the Dutch soldiers who allowed the Serbs to take thousands of Muslims to be executed. Those vets? I'm actually a Yugoslav, don't talk to me about Bosnia, burger.
>>

 No.457150

>>457086
>Not necessarily, Russia is friends with China,
Russia and China are not friends, this is such a tankie cope. China is just being opportunist right now.
>>

 No.457151

>>457148
>I love Reddit and there's nothing you can do to stop me.
Clearly, your opinions and everythingyou know comes from reddit. A website whose only use is to push imperialist narratives under the guise of "user democracy".
>>

 No.457152

>>457083
>But as soon as they introduced capitalism it all went to shit, 12 million starved in the neo-liberal-market-holocaust, general life expectancy dropped, and birth-rates tanked.
Niqqa, it was you tankies that fed those people directly into the maw of neoliberalism.
Say what you will about the booj, but they'd never go down without a fight. All if took for you STONK LENINISTS to give up was Pizza Hut and McDonald's kek.
>>

 No.457153

>>457152
>bougies are based, communists are cringe
you heard it here first, folks!
>>

 No.457154

>>457085
>The undeniable reality is the US overthrew the Ukrainian government and is now sacrificing Ukraine as an abrasive battering tool to attack the Russian Federation.
LMAO, RUSSIA STARTED THE WAR
Were the Soviet's "scraficing" the Vietcong by supplying them with weapons?
Ukraine wants to be middle class, drive VW Jettas and drink Fanta just like the rest of the EU. That's why they're fighting. Russia is a zombie state held up by it's defacto client states, this was also how the USSR operated as well.
>The undeniable reality is the US overthrew the Ukrainian government and is now sacrificing Ukraine as an abrasive battering tool to attack the Russian Federation.
Right, it has nothing to do with Donbass and Crimea .
>>

 No.457155

>>457154
>RUSSIA STARTED THE WAR
Ukrainian nazis have been bragging since 2014 they started a war with Russia. What was happening in Donbas 2014 - 2022 a friendly football match?
>>

 No.457156

>>457154
>Ukraine wants to be middle class, drive VW Jettas and drink Fanta just like the rest of the EU. That's why they're fighting. Russia is a zombie state held up by it's defacto client states, this was also how the USSR operated as well.
I hope you're being paid to do this. Otherwise LOL
>>

 No.457157

>>457096
>>The US single-handedly created this war (evidence, US greatest evil in whole world and all of history, very Marxist, me am
Kek, this is the unironic thesis of every tankie right now.
>>

 No.457158

>>457110
Yeah, this should be exhibit A in why Russia is a paper tiger, but tankies memory hole it by screaming at the top of their lungs about unimportant things. Pretty much taking a page right out of the GOP playbook.
>>

 No.457159

>>457119
>Calling me a tankie doesn't hurt my feelings.
>Which is why a dozen butt hurt tankies will come out of the woodwork whenever you use it.
>>

 No.457160

>>457127
>Are my obvious and telegraphed bad faith rhetorical tricks getting on your nerves? Checkmate normie.
OMG, GROW UP.
>>

 No.457161

>>457138
>The evidence is massive and categorical. It includes:

>* Robert McNamara’s instructions to the May 1963 SecDef Conference in Honolulu to develop the withdrawal plan.


>* A detailed account of the McNamara-Taylor mission to Vietnam that returned with the withdrawal plan, drafted in their absence in the Pentagon by a team under Kennedy’s direct control.


>* An audiotape of the discussion at the White House that led to the approval of NSAM 263 (National Security Action Memorandum), which implemented the plan; this audio was released by the Assassination Records Review Board at my request.


>* The precise instructions for withdrawal delivered by Maxwell Taylor, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to his fellow Chiefs on October 4, 1963, in a memorandum that remained classified until 1997.

https://whowhatwhy.org/politics/government-integrity/jfk-ordered-full-withdrawal-vietnam-solid-evidence/
>>

 No.457162

>>457157
>Russia invades Ukraine
>all of US's genocides, conquests, human experiments, coups, killings and destruction get wiped and memory holed
this is what liberals actually think
>>

 No.457163

>>457149
>Belarus has the highest standard of living of any ex-Soviet country. seethe, liberal
Better than Poland? I don't think so.
>Yeah, fucking UNPROFOR vets. Like the Dutch soldiers who allowed the Serbs to take thousands of Muslims to be executed. Those vets?
Yes thouse vets LMAO. Do you really think that incident means the entire multi country mission operated that. Well actually you do since you think a few dozen Nazi soilders means that an entire country of 40 million is the reserection of the 3rd Reich.
>I'm actually a Yugoslav, don't talk to me about Bosnia, burger.
So what, that means all those soilders didn't see Russia trunks with bald tires and broken down on the side of the road?
>>

 No.457164

>>457162
>Russia invades Ukraine
<Deflect to America's crimes in a thinly veiled attempt to justify Russia's actions, as if it isn't Russian bombs killing Ukrainians, in a blatant display of hypocrisy and an utter lack of principles
NuLeftypol continues shitting its brains out
>>

 No.457165

>US invading Iraq, Afghanistan = bad because cringe burgers
>Russia invading Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine = good because I have a Russian fetish
this is what tankies actually think
>>

 No.457166

>>457149
>I'm actually a Yugoslav,
This explains sooooo much.
>>457156
>Ukranians desperately want to be the client state of one of the most dysfunctional governments in the world.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
>>

 No.457167

>>457162
>>all of US's genocides, conquests, human experiments, coups, killings and destruction get wiped and memory holed
But they didn't though.
>>

 No.457168

>>457163
*Russia trucks
>>

 No.457169

>>457166
Honestly what makes tankies utter cringe is the fact that they don't just defend the most shit aspects of Soviet and Soviet-lite states; it's their unending defense of dogshit capitalist states with imperial ambitions because "America bad"

These days tankies outright promote Kautsky's theory of ultraimperialism, they more or less argue that Russia isn't imperialist because if it was it wouldn't be an enemy of America

Some even argue it isn't CAPITALIST because the government owns shares in energy companies, commies get to be a part of parliamentarianism, and Putin rehabilitated Stalin 🤡
>>

 No.457170

>>457167
He means people criticizing the act of Russia's invasion and not rationalizing it on the basis of "America bad"
>>

 No.457171

>>457162
>US genocides
Are opposed by leftists, because genocide itself is bad regardless of who commits it. Not because "US is cringe and reddit" like you tankies on .ogre say. touch grass
Now tell me, tankie-san, what do you have to say about Russia's genocides? Like the one in Ukraine?
>>456818
Or Chechnya?
>>456820
>>456833
>Russia has committed genocidal war crimes before in living memory, for example against the Chechens during the Russian invasion of Chechnya in the 1990's to 2000's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War#Human_rights_and_war_crimes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War#Human_rights_and_war_crimes
Or are do you prefer to memory-hole them or call them "based" because it "triggers le libs" and you have a Russian fetish?
>>

 No.457172

>I'm getting high from euphoria from BTFOing all the ztards in this thread.
Is….this what being a bully feels like? Wow, now I know why I got beat up so much in school
>>

 No.457173

>>457172
>Is….this what being a bully feels like?
I'd say it's more like being the guy getting bullied finally getting some backbone and giving the bully a bloody nose one day. Tankies have been quite abusive on .ogre for a while. They fed-jacket ("le glooow") and sic the jannies on any leftists who oppose Russia's invasion of Ukraine. If you look back, the early /Ukraine/ generals on .ogre actually had a healthy back-and-forth debates between pro-Z and anti-Z posters. But after 6 months of the process I just described, the /Ukraine/ generals are a hugbox echo chamber, and dissenting opinions are quickly banned and the posts deleted.
>>

 No.457174

>>457149
>actually a Yugoslav
Yugoslavia doesn't exist. You're a Serb sucking down Russian semen like it's running out.
>>

 No.457175

>>457174
wrong again. and I was born in Yugoslavia therefore I am Yugoslavian, you fucking dolt.
>>

 No.457176

>>457175
>wrong again. and I was born in Rhodesia therefore I am Rhodesian, you fucking dolt.
>>

 No.457177

>>457172
I'm happy I was able to help you achieve catharsis.
>>

 No.457178

Tankies so delusional they think the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia still exist lol.
>>

 No.457179

>>457125
Not even a tankie you fucking retard I'm going to call out idiots like you supporting American presidents.
>>457129
I don't care anyone supporting American president is my enemy.
>>

 No.457180

>>457175
>W-W-Wrong
Yeah, definitely a faggot Serb. Thanks for playing, dipshit.
>>

 No.457181

>>457179
>I don't care anyone supporting American president is my enemy.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1864/lincoln-letter.htm
>>

 No.457182

This is some rent free shit. Next thing you know being against liberal capitalism will make you "le tankie", I guess we should all become socdem reformers of capitalism so we don't look bad in the eyes of reddit.
>>

 No.457183

>>457182
Liberal capitalism is preferable to authoritarian capitalism, which is what Russia practices.
>>

 No.457185

>>457181
Okay well I don't care for your politics. I don't support or look upon JFK and Lincoln with rose tinted glasses.
>>457183
I am against every form of capitalism.
>>

 No.457186

>>457177
By getting beat up yourself? You some kind of masochist or something?
>>457173
This is probably closer to what's happening. I've been making a lot of progress in my therapy lately, I've had to learn alot of my parents immaturity and narcisism and boy do I see that reflected in how Tankies behave.
>>

 No.457187

>>457185
Nah, you just said Marx is your enemy. Common tankie L.
>>

 No.457188

>>457179
>Stating historical facts is simping for American presidents.
Why do tankie worldviews always require these cartoonish caracitures of history.
I really don't get it, is saying anything positive about the US, even if it's true, tantamount to being a capitalist warmonger?
>>

 No.457189

File: 1663014155155.jpg (5.45 MB, 1985x3500, sex.jpg)

>>457185
>Everything a capitalist does is capitalist.
Is this why you don't have sex?
>>

 No.457190

>>457187
Okay?
>>457188
>historical facts
>demonstrable proof that Kennedy was going to end the Vietnam war
>kennedy was also going to turn America into a Finland-tier social democracy if he wasn't assassinated
Well Kennedy was assassinated, he was shot through the fucking skull in fact, your "demonstrable proof" is alternate history that didn't happen.
>>457189
That's not the point. Anything a capitalist does will still make them a capitalist, making them my enemy. But thank you for the fat ass anime picture or whatever.
>>

 No.457191

I have demonstrable proof that yo mama was sucking my dick last night.
>>

 No.457192

>>457182
>When you're only justification for supporting Russian capitalism is muh Reddit
Do you form all your tales in opposition to Reddit?
>>

 No.457193

>>457186
>I've had to learn alot of my parents immaturity and narcisism and boy do I see that reflected in how Tankies behave.
interesting
>>

 No.457194

>>457192
I don't support Russia or Ukraine.
>>

 No.457195

>>457194
I too am neutral when watching a rape occur. Both sides are bad. Him for being a rapist, and her for asking for it.
>>

 No.457196

>>457193
Really, seems like having BPD, narcissistic parents seems pretty common.
Or do you mean it's interesting that I see so many patterns my therapist is training me to see in my family, I'm seeing in Tankies?
>>

 No.457197

>>457190
>Well Kennedy was assassinated, he was shot through the fucking skull in fact, your "demonstrable proof" is alternate history that didn't happen.
Damn homie, take like 5 mins to meditate. You're just reflexively rejecting all critque.
You said there was no proof that JFK was going to end the Vietnam War, which goes along with your hamfisted thesis that all US Presidents are the same.
I produce evidence to the contrary and you just cross your arms and said he was killed.
Like I know that dickweed, my point is that if he had lived he would have ended it.
>>

 No.457198

>>457196
*Really, seems like having parents BPD,
>>

 No.457199

>>457195
So you're just coming out as a pro Ukraine shill? Don't try and moralize to me idiot.
>>457197
>my point is that if he had lived he would have ended it
Okay well you can believe anything about alternate history that you like.
>>

 No.457200

>>457195
I don't have any connection to Ukraine why the fuck would I have any "muh solidarity" with them you idiot? I am looking out for my family first and foremost not some country thousands of miles away, you're a piece of shit lol.
>>

 No.457201

>>457199
>So you're just coming out as a pro femoid shill? Don't try and moralize to me idiot.
Based retard.
>>

 No.457202

>>457199
What are you trying to accomplish by plugging your ears and just saying no to everything?
>>

 No.457203

>>457202
>anyone who disagrees with me is plugging their ears
>>

 No.457204

>>457202
He's just trying to disrupt the thread. He has no ideas, nor does he care to make any positive claims on the conflict. He's just interesting on casting doubt on whatever you say.
>>

 No.457205

>>457204
>>457203
You counter historical facts with "lib" and "glowie". Yes, you are just plugging your ears.
>>

 No.457206

>>457204
>any positive claims on the conflict
War isn't positive idiot, what could positively come out of this war except more oppression? For me the more appropriate response to war and the prospect of war is despair and nihilism than calling for an end to say Russian or Western imperialism.
>>457205
>historical facts
Nah I'm done, you can't call alternate history and wishful thinking historical facts, keep wanking off JFK.
>>

 No.457207

>>457206
>War isn't positive idiot,
Ah, I see you're also ESL, and don't understand the language. Look up what "positive claim" means, and then kill yourself.
>>

 No.457209

>>457206
>Nah I'm done, you can't call alternate history and wishful thinking historical facts, keep wanking off JFK.
>National Security Action Memorandum 57 which would have ended the Vietnam War is wishful thinking and alternate history.
Your rank ignorance of how the US government works is not a counter argument.
>>

 No.457210

>>457207
Go fuck yourself I have obviously given my reasons for not supporting either side. Of course I say no because I disagree with you. Ukraine or Russia does not deserve my support, the support of anyone here means jack shit to these politics. Of course I could write a few long paragraphs explaining in good detail what I think, everyone has read and been influenced by different works. People always have different ethical opinions… It is not worth the effort on this shitty site.
>>457209
I am certain the US would have gotten involved in the war anyway. I also know for certain that my life would still be shit if or if not JFK got assassinated. Your argument is shit and is literal alternate history
>>457076
>I miss him like you wouldn't believe. If he hadn't been assassinated and then followed up by decades of increasingly right-wing Presidential successors, America would unironically be a Finland-tier social democracy right now.
lol go fuck yourself.
>>

 No.457211

>>457210
>Go fuck yourself I have obviously given my reasons for not supporting either side
Yeah, hence you have made no positive claims. You're only saying "nuh-uh" to everything, and by everything, I mean anything suggesting Russia should just not invade sovereign countries. This is a crazy idea to you because you are quite stupid.
>>

 No.457212

>If he hadn't been assassinated and then followed up by decades of increasingly right-wing Presidential successors, America would unironically be a Finland-tier social democracy right now.
This is some fairy tale shit lol. Next you will tell me the US would be a perfect country without a totalitarian military industrial complex. All this is some ultra rose tinted glasses from some faggot who wasn't even alive when JFK was prez.
>>

 No.457213

>>457211
>I mean anything suggesting Russia should just not invade sovereign countries
Whether or not Russia invades sovereign countries is out of my control. There are always going to be oppressors and the oppressed, remove one and they will just flip eventually. I'm not going to waste my energy on the already discredited anti-war cause, I am first and foremost against capitalism. The obvious reason being, I am a working class person, and being working class is shit. As long as capitalism is dominant socially on the planet, war will never stop being supported by capital.
>>

 No.457214

>>457213
So then what is your goal for posting here, because just saying "hurr I don't care." is retarded when you chose to post in this thread. Of course, if you're so pro-worker, you should understand that what Russia is doing is killing common people in Ukraine and wasting the lives of Russian workers. One might almost be led to believe that you're just being a dishonest cunt for the sake of derailing this thread.
>>

 No.457215

>>457210
>Go fuck yourself I have obviously given my reasons for not supporting either side.
The problem is that you have done nothing to substatiate those claims except declare all information you don't like being part of an unfalsifable NATO conspriacy.
>I am certain the US would have gotten involved in the war anyway.
Your certainty is meaningless. Meanwhile there's actual proof that it would have ended.
>I also know for certain that my life would still be shit if or if not JFK got assassinated.
But 4 million Vietnamese civlians would be alive today.
>Your argument is shit and is literal alternate history
It's not, JKF NSAM 54 proves that he was going to end the Vietnam War just days before he was killed.
>lol go fuck yourself.
Anothe example of Tankie intellecual bankrupcy. Because Marxist-Lenisist revolutions were successful by in large because of the brutal suffering of the peasantry under the Czar, they extrapolate that to all countries everywhere with the accelerationist matra "The harder the working class suffers, the better" while of course sitting comforably detached from said suffering either because of class, status or nationality.
>>

 No.457216

>>457212
JFK was the last moderately liberal president and he and his family were all set to reign over a political dynasty that would have lasted for generations.
We can never know what would have truly happened had he had lived, but to think the US would have taken a more soc dem path isn't a faily tale.
>>

 No.457217

>>457213
>Whether or not Russia invades sovereign countries is out of my control. There are always going to be oppressors and the oppressed, remove one and they will just flip eventually.
>Everything is relative, there's nothing you can do, it's pointless, give up.
SHADDUP
>>

 No.457218

>>457213
>I'm first and foremost against capitalism
<But I still won't go against Russian capitalism lmao
<Also the movement against imperialist war is discredited
<"Just remove one oppressor and another one will arise!" He says, to sidestep criticizing Russian imperialism (unlikely the tankie would say this shit regarding an American imperialist war)
<"War will continue forever under capitalism, therefore the movement against war is worthless"
These are the people that call themselves "Marxist-Leninists" in the year 2022

For all their mockery of them, at least anarchists have actual principles
>>

 No.457219

>>457218
Don't forget, he also said Marx was his enemy. Not intentionally, of course, but as a product of being an ignorant cunt.
>>

 No.457220

>>457196
>Or do you mean it's interesting that I see so many patterns my therapist is training me to see in my family, I'm seeing in Tankies?
Please elaborate if you don't mind or if it's not too personal. I'm intrigued
>>

 No.457221

IMO the fact that this thread and the other Ukraine thread have been the most popular threads on leftypol for like a year is disappointing. Of course this is not really a surprise if you've ever been on smaller chan's, the big event threads are what is dominantly popular until the next event, but it is still sad because really this is a waste of energy to talk about.
>>457214
>So then what is your goal for posting here, because just saying "hurr I don't care." is retarded when you chose to post in this thread
Of course I have thought about this. But I am bored still.
>you're so pro-worker, you should understand that what Russia is doing is killing common people in Ukraine and wasting the lives of Russian workers
As I said the only thing I think is appropriate from my experience and what I have seen over my life is a reaction of despair.
>>457215
>The problem is that you have done nothing to substatiate those claims except declare all information you don't like being part of an unfalsifable NATO conspriacy
Is this a troll? you're just pulling shit out of your ass because I haven't mentioned NATO at all much.
>Your certainty is meaningless. Meanwhile there's actual proof that it would have ended
Actually you don't have any proof because you're basing everything you're saying off an alternate history if JFK survived. Nobody can take you seriously, but well you can like and wank JFK all you like and I can't do anything about it.
>But 4 million Vietnamese civilians would be alive today
Okay.
>It's not, JKF NSAM 54 proves that he was going to end the Vietnam War just days before he was killed
nope.
>Anothe example of Tankie intellecual bankrupcy
I'm not a tankie you fucking retard.
>Because Marxist-Lenisist revolutions were successful by in large because of the brutal suffering of the peasantry under the Czar
No shit. Every revolution is successful because the of the previous governments incompetence and destroyed reputation.
>they extrapolate that to all countries everywhere with the accelerationist matra "The harder the working class suffers, the better" while of course sitting comforably detached from said suffering either because of class, status or nationality
I don't claim that at all, I don't wish for millions of people to starve to death just so capitalism is destroyed. If people begin to starve, if the crisis of the capitalist system were to happen, then it would be in the worker's best interest to revolt. The crisis of capitalism is not guaranteed, but the closest shot pro-revolutionaries have of success is a total economic collapse like the end of World War 1 for example.
>US would have taken a more soc dem path isn't a faily tale
I'm not a reformer so I don't care even if that did happen, I would still be pro-revolution not more reform.
>>457217
Except that's the truth, the working class has no control over these politics, all they ever seem to do is divide them more, like the Ukraine Russia war. I never said give up. I am realistic, there is a very small chance that capitalism will ever be destroyed, again this is no fairy tale, human progress is not guaranteed at all. I am still more than ever against capitalism and for the communist revolution.
>>457218
I'm not a tankie you fucking idiot.
>But I still won't go against Russian capitalism lmao
I already said I am against all forms of capitalism.
>Also the movement against imperialist war is discredited
Yes it is. You can march in the streets all you like but capital will wage war over and over, the 60's and 70's is the proof, they didn't stop Iraq or Afghanistan from being invaded.
>"Just remove one oppressor and another one will arise!" He says, to sidestep criticizing Russian imperialism (unlikely the tankie would say this shit regarding an American imperialist war)
I'm not a tankie.
>War will continue forever under capitalism, therefore the movement against war is worthless
Yes it is worthless. Why do I need to be in the movement against war when I am already against capital?
>These are the people that call themselves "Marxist-Leninists" in the year 2022
I wouldn't call myself a mainstream Marxist-Leninist.
>For all their mockery of them, at least anarchists have actual principles
Some anarchists have principals, there are many many different and small groups. Obviously you wouldn't know because you just lump me with "muh tankies". Man this thread was a disappointment like I thought it would be here >>456707
>>

 No.457222

>>457221
Damn, dude, nobody is reading all that.
>>

 No.457223

>>457220
Elaborate about what? How I see parallels between Tankies and my Narc parents?
>>

 No.457224

>>457223
Yeah that
>>

 No.457225

>>457221
>Is this a troll? you're just pulling shit out of your ass because I haven't mentioned NATO at all much.
No, you and every tankies thinks smugly stating that anything that comes from a Western source can be dismissed out of hand is an actual counter argument.
It's what most of your counter arguments are.
>Actually you don't have any proof because you're basing everything you're saying off an alternate history if JFK survived.
NSAM 54 is not alternative history, Jesus Christ. Again, the implicit argument is that the Vietnam War wouldn't have ended because US BAD. It's just a childish analysis.
>nope.
Yes, the Vietnam War would have ended. They couldn't have ignored those orders.
>No shit. Every revolution is successful because the of the previous governments incompetence and destroyed reputation.
No just ML revolutions and all Marxist-Leninist revolutions have failed. And at least in the West workers have been able to gain tremendous concessions. Being a prole in the west is nothing like it was in the 1800's.
>The crisis of capitalism is not guaranteed, but the closest shot pro-revolutionaries have of success is a total economic collapse like the end of World War 1 for example.
So yes, you do admit to wanting workers to suffer to increase revolutionary potential.
How daft are you. We had not one but 2 world wars and it did not bring about a proletariat revolution.
>I'm not a reformer so I don't care even if that did happen,
I KNOW
That's the point, you're a fucking edgy twerp, not an authority on revolution.
>>

 No.457226

>>457225
>No, you and every tankies
I'm not a tankie
>Again, the implicit argument is that the Vietnam War wouldn't have ended because US BAD. It's just a childish analysis
Okay.
>No just ML revolutions and all Marxist-Leninist revolutions have failed. And at least in the West workers have been able to gain tremendous concessions. Being a prole in the west is nothing like it was in the 1800's.
So you aren't a pro-revolutionary? I don't care for the reforms of capitalism at all, I've made it clear that I am for the total destruction of capitalism.
>So yes, you do admit to wanting workers to suffer to increase revolutionary potential.
How daft are you. We had not one but 2 world wars and it did not bring about a proletariat revolution.
Nope I don't want workers to suffer that's why I am pro-revolutionary, the working class life is shit. That's why I desire radically different social relations.
>I KNOW
That's the point, you're a fucking edgy twerp, not an authority on revolution
Why the fuck are you here if you aren't for revolution? Also I never claimed to be an authority on revolution, that's why I said I and in my opinion. Because believe it or not you fucking retard there are more opinions than tankie and non-tankie. It's like talking to a fucking child.
>>

 No.457227

This site is so shit man. How did it get to the point where there exists only two opinions the non-tankie and the tankies. Anybody who doesn't conform to my thoughts about socdems and JFK are fucking authoritarian tankies! Fucking children.
>>

 No.457228

>>457224
Oh okay, it's kind of a long list. One parallel the revisionist history. Like my parents will just straight up make up things that didn't happen. The events always either justify their bad behavior or make them look good.
And the thing is, I don't think they're lying. I think they really believe these things happened. They have this incredible ability see things the way they want to see them. Even when I have proof they'll thrash about until they have some kind of story to explain that away too.
And I see that in tankies, I mean every article is written as though Russia is the victim. Like the invasion was a natural course of events and that everything that followed is some kind of perversion by NATO and West. Like tankies literally meme that NATO is sacrificing Ukraine in the name of NATO aggression, all while actively shelling cities of their own accord. As though they have no agency in any of this, as though they couldn't stop this war right now and go home.
For some reason keeping the invasion going is just the status quo, but the Ukrainians fighting it is evil subversion by the West. Even though NATO did nothing to convince Ukraine to take their weapons, while Russia murders people to force the country into the Russian Federation.
It's like a weird mental block. They're even trying to revision what happened in 2014. I mean that's only 8 years ago, it's not like WWII were much of the living memory of that is gone. 8 years is nothing, like why try to even lie about something like that. But they're not lying, they believe it, and it's weirdly conscious and subconscious. It's conscious because nothing they wind up believing is arbitrary, it's always self serving, but at the same time they seem to really believe the lies they tell themselves. I guess maybe it's because they're so self centered they just assume if they agree with it it is by default true.
There's others, do you want to hear more?
>>

 No.457229

>>457226
>So you aren't a pro-revolutionary?
Yes, I am, but I'm not anti-worker. All the safety and wage concessions that western workers have gotten are good and revolutionary. They weaken in C-M-C processes, which is why capitalist REEE about them so much.
>Nope I don't want workers to suffer that's why I am pro-revolutionary, the working class life is shit.
You just said the best short term route to revolution would be a collapse of the government. That would almost certainly mean war and civil unrest. This is why Marx said the state had to be captured. Which it is slowly by reforms.
>>

 No.457230

>>457228
Another thing about revisionist history is that anytime, and I mean anytime there is any ambiguity about what happened, they will fight tooth and nail to make me believe the version that is most beneficial to them.
I think it's part of the narc's refusal to take responsibility for anything. They MUST be right, this is where their moral authority comes from too.
>>

 No.457231

People here say I've derailed the thread? No I've actually derailed the derailing thread…
>>

 No.457232

>>457227
>WAAAAAA Someone won't be slavishly anti-American to the point of lying about history, this board is DOOOOOOOMED.
>>

 No.457233

>>457232
All you can do is put false words in my mouth, you're pathetic.
>>

 No.457234

>>457233
You need America to be pure evil for any of your political views to work. Not how things work in reality.
>>

 No.457235

>>457234
You still think I'm the same other tankie posters? Well you're wrong, there are more people here than you think… You want to know what I think? Russia and America are both as black, they are both as terrible. Neither of them are worth my support, especially since I'm an American myself. I don't support my totalitarian government at all, but it would be an even bigger waste to support Russia or any other foreign government. Of course if I have to save a life I would pick an American… But that is besides the point.
>>

 No.457236

>>457228
>There's others, do you want to hear more?
Yes, please.
>>

 No.457238

>>>457237
Fuck this thread I'll make my own.
>>

 No.457246

This is pathetic. I wonder why the stupid Russians didn't call up like a million or 2 million men at the start?
>>

 No.457250

>>457246
They failed to obey the 4th crack commandment: "Never get high off your own supply." They bought their own propaganda and paid for it.
>>

 No.457252

Who will win the attritional war?
>>

 No.457253

File: 1663039934737.png (97.95 KB, 1500x1000, 1663031872185.png)

The Russian military is pathetic. Although territory is not as important as getting kills in this terrain.
>>

 No.457254

>>457252
Ukraine has more soldiers and unlimited funds from US and NATO allies, as well as only having to last until Russia wears out. Russia was never going to win this, and I called it when they failed to take Kyiv. This may actually end before the end of the year, simply because RF forces haven't consolidated their defense in the east, leading to more Ukrainian exploits, and the fact that RF troops in the south seem to be trying to negotiate for their own passage home. This war may already be over, but that's just the optimist inside me talking. I do think Russia has already lost, but this may last until next year. I like to think it won't. Too many boys are dying on both sides, and there is no reason for it.
>>

 No.457262

>>457180
you're just a dumb wannabe shqiptar, all you know about Yugoslavia is Serbs, Kosovo and Albania. your dumb grandfather probably had to scrub toilets in Buttfuck Nowhere, USA. and now you rabid ly defend all the US does like a good little cuck. go make me a paljačinka with sljadoljed.
>>

 No.457265

>>457262
Serbia's only deed worthy of note is genocide. Why would they be known for anything else? I'm glad they got bombed, and I don't care how butthurt you are about it. Yugoslavia isn't real, and you're still a faggot who will never, ever, ever have Kosovo.
>>

 No.457273

>>457265
I'm not even Serbian lol, so go off. Yugoslavia was made up of 6 republics, only one of them was Serbia. I actually hate the country I'm from, so you can go off on all of the ex-Yugo countries, cause they're all garbage now. You're just a butthurt nationalist who was made to hate Yugoslavia. I don't hate Albania, it would have been cool if you had become a part of Yugoslavia along with Bulgaria.
>>

 No.457276

Do Russian recruits still get ass raped as part of their hazing? or is that a myth. Serving in the Russian army sounds like hell I wouldn't want to be buddy buddy with some gopnik
>>

 No.457277

>>457276
No, now they also are forced into prostitution to make money for their corrupt superiors. The Russian military also lacks a professional NCO corps, so this is simply going to continue. Imagine all NCOs being juniors and seniors in an American frat, and you understand what kind of environment the average Russian trainee is walking into.
>>

 No.457278

File: 1663136853977-0.png (1.9 MB, 1600x1066, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1663136853977-1.png (2.23 MB, 1600x1066, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1663136853977-2.png (1.14 MB, 1600x1066, ClipboardImage.png)

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/ukraine-war-democracy-nihilism-timothy-snyder
>Ukraine Holds the Future
<The War Between Democracy and Nihilism
>>

 No.457279

Georgia proposes to hold a referendum and ask if Georgians want war with Russia
https://odessa-journal.com/georgia-proposes-to-hold-a-referendum-and-ask-if-georgians-want-war-with-russia/
There's blood in the water.
>>

 No.457280

File: 1663150282061.png (9.16 KB, 900x900, diplomacy.png)

>>457254
>Ukraine has more soldiers and unlimited funds from US and NATO allies

Ukraine has a much smaller population than Russia, and hence also a much smaller pool of fighters.

Ukraine also had extremely high losses, while Russian losses are low. One of the reasons Russian losses are so low is because they don't trade soldiers for territory, they retreat and regroup if they get outmaneuvered, even at the cost of some moral and propaganda defeats. The retarded Ukrainian leadership that has sacrificed probably many tens of thousands of soldiers holding the line in some irrelevant town for the sole purpose of maintaining appearances. The Ukrainians put political logic above military logic and because of that they have dwindling forces.

The Russian military isn't actually using many Russian Infantry soldiers, most of the infantry that is fighting on the Russian side are actually Don-bass militias from Luhansk and Donestk Republics. So as far as the infantry losses are concerned it's mostly Ukrainians and former Ukrainians. The Russian soldiers are operating the heavy machinery like Artillery and Jet-planes, and only on few occasions are actual Russian infantry on the front-lines.

Ukraine is running a deficit of 7 billion a month and they only get about 1 billion from the west. Europe is basically bankrupting it self upholding this. It has major inflation going on and it can't find alternatives to Russian energy supplies, that makes the continuation of the sanction suicide. Europe might have to shutter it's industries, and suffer a de-industrialization spiral, that will crash both EU and US markets.

The sanctions are doing not nearly as much damage to the Russian economy as it was claimed. The Russian Auto-industry is lacking parts for cars and some American consumer products couldn't be replaced, however prices for goods and services in general are falling in Russia. The exchange prices for Oil and gas in international markets have been going up, and for Russia this war pays for it self in financial terms. They pay in blood but not in treasure, and if the Russian losses are as low as they seem to be, they are not paying much blood for this either. The projections are that Russia will only have a 2% GDP contraction, which is extraordinary low for a country at war.

NATO also has been decreasing it's weapons shipments because expendable stock-piles are running low. NATO has now changed tactics and is training regular Ukrainians to fight. You can't expect regular civilians to become proficient soldiers within a few weeks or months of training. They are conscripting people that are 60 years old now. Can you imagine how desperate the situation has become when you do a geriatric volksturm.

>I do think Russia has already lost

>This war may already be over
I'm assuming that you are thinking this because you are somebody who got swept up into NATO propaganda sphere and drank the coolaid.

Russia has retreated troops from Izyum region, and the Ukrainians have regained some terriroty about 2000km² out of 120000km" they lost sofar in this war. That region they recaptured is mostly just towns and empty fields. The reason the Ukrainians won this, is because the Russians wanted to preserve their troops rather than stand their ground. And the advance of the Ukrainians has already ground to a hold. You are delusional to think any of this represents a turn in the war. While this offensive had relatively low significance in military terms it did however succeed in putting a enormous political pressure on Moscow. Which lead to the Russian military getting some of it's combat restrictions lifted. The most impactful is that the Russian military is now allowed to damage Ukrainian infrastructure. Ukraine is now suffering massive electricity blackouts.

What is perhaps the most regretful outcome of this is that the Ukrainians like local politicians and functionaries that worked with the Russians to do stuff like distribute food-rations now face reprisals from the returning Ukrainian forces. If the Ukrainians kill those people, the NATO propaganda horn is going to spin this as Russian atrocities. So if you hear that maybe consider the possibility.

>Too many boys are dying on both sides, and there is no reason for it.

Officially Ukraine is making the end of fighting conditional on Ukraine's boarder going back to pre 2014. That is a maximal demand, the only thing more unrealistic they could demand is an unconditional surrender. Unofficially Ukraine is a US proxy-war-pawn and it's not making decisions for it self, and we should consider interpreting to what extend these are imperial decrees from Washington and maybe Brussels (although Europe seems more like an US colony these days)

Realistically speaking Ukraine could do a partial surrender and give up some territories, and recognize those new republics that have formed. At the moment the Russians are busy rejiggering their troops, before they resume their slowly grinding but relentless onslaught. So there is a window of opportunity for about a week or 2 to negotiate on more favorable terms. I wonder if the imperial bourgeoisie and what's left of the Ukrainian one can swallow some pride and end this disaster before it turns into an even bigger one. Not just for the sake of Ukrainians but also for the EU and US economies and better food security for the global south.

Consider that even right wing neo-liberal ghouls like Henry Kissinger can see the need for diplomacy, and maybe it's time to reconsider if you hold a position that is further to the right than that guy.

At the moment Russia has only mobilized 180k troops (of 1.3 million trained military) and about 10-15% of it's overall force projection capacity. But the voices for full scale mobilization are getting louder in Russia, if those prevail, and the Russians go all in, the most likely outcome will be that Ukraine ceases to be a country.

There is perhaps some irony in the fact that the largest Russian communist party is supporting full mobilization while Putin, who is no doubt a capitalist, is the one putting the breaks on that. But it is understandable that Russian communists would see Ukraine as nothing more than occupied Soviet territory. Like any good socialist I too morn the fall of the Soviet Union, but perhaps this is not the best way to bring it back.
>>

 No.457281

>>457280
Excellent post, comrade. Too bad they'll call you a tankie and post NATO memes as rebuttal.
>>

 No.457284

>>457280
>Ukraine has a much smaller population than Russia, and hence also a much smaller pool of fighters.
Assuming general mobilization, and it doesn't have those soldiers right now, which is when it needs them, not three months from now, or more likely, a month from now, given Russia's track record.
>Ukraine also had extremely high losses, while Russian losses are low.
The only ones claiming this are Russian MoD. Ukraine has generally comparable losses to historical trends of defender/attacker.
> One of the reasons Russian losses are so low is because they don't trade soldiers for territory, they retreat and regroup if they get outmaneuvered
You're definitely smoking copium. This wasn't a general retreat. It was a rout, and we know that because there was no attempt at taking heavy equipment or destroying it so as to deny it to the enemy. Your whole post reads like major cope. I'm not even going to read the rest of it. Think more next time.
>>

 No.457285

>>457284
>Ukraine has generally comparable losses to historical trends of defender/attacker.
I see you graduated from r/worldnews university. And what are the historical trends when one side is shelling the fuck out of another? First you libs cry "Russia is just using long range artillery and rockets, that's not fair!" but then you turn around and say "this is a classic war, Russians are attacking Ukrainian positions and losing soldiers 3:1 ratio".
>It was a rout, and we know that because there was no attempt at taking heavy equipment or destroying it so as to deny it to the enemy.
70% of leftover equipment was destroyed. The only one coping is you. If Russians had left so much stuff, your reddit feed would be full of pictures and videos, but as it stands, all you get are pics of Ukrainian flags over empty villages.
>>

 No.457286

>>457285
>And what are the historical trends when one side is shelling the fuck out of another?
Depends, anon, but unlike Russians, Ukrainians seem to have actually dug in. Nobody but Russian MoD supports your version of events, and Russian war commentators like Girkin called it from February. I'm sorry that reality sucks, but it's no time for fantasy. Russia is going to lose this war, and your made up facts aren't going to change that. How will you cope then?
>>

 No.457287

Even Luka is preparing to jump the sinking ship.
https://streamable.com/ppwjv7
>“Let’s not let Europe freeze. Let’s help our brothers, maybe they’ll help us one day,” Lukashenka said, referring to businessman Sergei Teterin, who was chopping wood with him.
We now have Armenia and Azerbajan in conflict, along with Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. Xi is also visiting Kazakhstan without any Russian counterparts, and Georgia has gotten bold enough to ask its population to decide on a potential war. There is blood in the water.
>>

 No.457288

>>457287
Based Luka
>>

 No.457289

File: 1663166467606.jpg (140.58 KB, 968x544, 1663162233426029.jpg)

>>457288
Mogged
>>

 No.457290

>>457289
Luka > Putin
USSR coming back with Luka as General Secretary is what would happen if we live in a blessed timeline.
>>

 No.457292

>>457290
Putin could have won if he had only promoted Luka to Colonel of the USSR.
>>

 No.457293

>>457280
>Ukraine also had extremely high losses, while Russian losses are low.
Now this is pure, uncut, Grade A Colombian copeium.
>>

 No.457294

>>457284
Putin cannot mobilize, for one he lied about this being a war in the first place, and two, the Russian middle class will go ape shit if they have to put their own lives on the line.
>>

 No.457296

>>457288
This reminds me of burgerland's "Coalition of the Willing" lol.
>>

 No.457298

>>457296
That would make Ukraine and its allies The Axis of Evil. 🤔
>>

 No.457300

>>457278
I'll take nihilism over liberal democracy.
>>

 No.457301

>>457294
Oh, I know. If that was going to happen, it should have happened at the beginning, preferably with some sort of false-flag, like the ones in those apartment bombings that justified the war in Chechnya. Putin and his planers went into a war while believing their own lies. Their supporters now still choose to believe those lies and cannot deal with reality.
>>

 No.457303

Russia is wounded and bleeding in an ocean full of sharks.
https://twitter.com/PopularFront_/status/1570062731524325383
>>

 No.457321

File: 1663192868127-0.png (925.12 KB, 915x530, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1663192868127-1.png (118.35 KB, 460x354, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1663192868127-2.png (304.06 KB, 550x418, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1663192868127-3.png (296.81 KB, 550x367, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1663192868127-4.png (234.98 KB, 550x564, ClipboardImage.png)

>>

 No.457323

File: 1663194649527.webm (3.88 MB, 480x360, honk-polka.webm)

>>457321
>infamous liberal clickbait rag is now using "tankie" as an unhinged generalized insult
No escaping this clown world now.
>>

 No.457324

>>457323
I think he's the same guy who said you cannot be a socialist if you aren't pro-america lol.
>>

 No.457326

>>457323
>"tankie" as an unhinged generalized insult
>generalized insult
>>457321
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/9/13/2122694/-Ukraine-Update-The-Tankies-don-t-have-a-coherent-explanation-as-to-why-Russian-is-losing
>For those who haven’t read previous installments, Tankies are people who believe imperialism is bad, and only the United States can be imperialist. Thus, Russia is the aggrieved party here, only attacking Ukraine because NATO something or other. This tweet encapsulates it perfectly:
>Tankies are named after communist sympathizers who witnessed Soviet bloody suppression of the Prague and Hungary uprisings, yet continued to defend the Soviet Union. I’ve written about them here and here, and they’re always good for a quizzical look askance, and then a surprised chuckle when you realize they’re actually serious.
The way the article uses "tankie" seems like it's a pretty specific descriptor term, to describe a specific set of people. >>457103 >>457134
>>

 No.457336

File: 1663197427992.jpg (Spoiler Image, 155.35 KB, 700x694, 1363417526420.jpg)

>>457324
Nah, that's me. Pic related, Big American Dick.
>>

 No.457338

>>457336
And you wonder why people don't like Americans.
>>

 No.457339

>>457338
You tried to look at the dick pic, didn't you?
>>

 No.457340

>>457339
You don't have the balls to post a dick pick.
>>

 No.457341

>>457340
So you did click it, then?
>>

 No.457342

>>457341
Yep there was no dick, you pussy fat American.
>>

 No.457343

>>457342
You really wanted that dick, huh? Well, that's fucking gay, which is fine. You can be gay. I just need you to know that you're gay for thinking about it, perv.
>>

 No.457354

>>457321
>saving and sharing NAFO/glowie memes
>for free
>>

 No.457357

File: 1663223366781.mp4 (35.44 MB, 1920x1080, Do_It_Again.mp4)

>>457354
Stay mad.
>>

 No.457358

World must be ready for Russia’s disintegration, US general says
https://web.archive.org/web/20220915064746/https://www.yahoo.com/news/world-must-ready-russia-disintegration-172100396.html
Congratulations tankies, you played yourself.
>>

 No.457359

>>457357
>if you point out I carry water for fascists and imperialists that means you're mad
cope lib
>>457358
>clickbait article about a hypothetical some random general mentioned
<this is all facts and it will all come true because it reinforces my worldview
I always wondered who are the simpletons these kinds of articles are written for, and now I know.
>>

 No.457360

File: 1663225696030.jpg (333.38 KB, 1280x960, 1361934674541.jpg)

>>457358
So are we going to need new pics for slavthreads?
>>

 No.457361

File: 1663226569893.png (614.79 KB, 550x678, ClipboardImage.png)

>>457354
>>457359
imagine being this upset at a cartoon dog
>>

 No.457362

>>457361
In his heart of hearts, Tankie believes that you work for the CIA, or that the CIA made these memes. He cannot fathom people making things for fun.
>>

 No.457363

>>457358
This is why everyone who supports ukraine is a dumb fuck.
>>

 No.457364

>>457281
>Excellent post, comrade. Too bad they'll call you a tankie
Yeah this thread had a lot of posters that tried to use this kind of ritual defamation.
https://stallmansupport.org/the-practice-of-ritual-defamation-laird-wilcox.html
It became a little bit too obvious that they were doing that

The point of ritual defamation is to cause you emotional pain.
Just install a profanity filter addon for your browser and change "tankie" to something you find humorous
That way you won't feel any grief when they do that.
>>

 No.457365

>>457364
You can also just not care.
>>

 No.457366

>>457365
They care because it's a rather accurate portrayal of their overall qualities and thinking. They care because it's true. I wouldn't care if someone called me a fat American, because it's not true. I wouldn't care if someone called me an anti-socialist, because it's not true. Tankies care because it is true, and because the sentiment accurately describes what they think, and how they simp for authoritarians at the cost of workers. This is why .org is a fucking echo chamber where they ban you for "glow" just for going against the narrative.
>>

 No.457367

>>457365
Sure a stoic attitude is best, however it does still use up a small amount of mental effort, and re-configuring your browser takes less effort.
I think it's also worth pointing out ritual defamation when it happens, because it might improve the quality of interactions that people have.
>>

 No.457368

>>457367
A fair point but I would argue in retort that it is better to extend that energy to build up a strong defense against it so that you are better prepared for it in the future.
>>

 No.457369

File: 1663235144551.jpg (84.97 KB, 1200x798, darth Leyen.jpg)

Von der Leyen has announced she will continue to sabotage the energy supply of Europe with suicidal sanctions that do more damage to Europe than Russia, and she will also continue to piss away money and weapons.

It's obviously not wearing down the Russians, it's just ruining Europe.
It's like the neo-liberals just want to see the world burn.

One can only hope this is just bluster.
>>

 No.457370

>>457369
>it's not working, that's why Putin keeps threatening to escalate but never does, and now every single bit of influence is slipping from around Russia's borders
Top kek, m8.
>>

 No.457371

>>457368
>A fair point but I would argue in retort that it is better to extend that energy to build up a strong defense against it so that you are better prepared for it in the future.
I see your point, you want to harden your self against the psychological abuse from the liberals.
But too much exposure is going to be counter productive.
Maybe the best way is having the profanity filter on most of the time and switching it off periodically for a training session.
>>

 No.457372

>>457361
>>457362
Or you can stop being ignorant and look at where those NAFO memes come from. Hint: it's not a grassroots effort of people having fun. Not to mention they say "memes against war" yet they crowdfund for the Georgian Legion, a fighting force. They arm fascists and neo-nazis while saying they're against war. And now you help them, for free. You're just a tool and a cuck, hope the "fun" is worth it.
>>457366
>wouldn't care if someone called me an anti-socialist
But you are an anti-socialist by virtue of holding liberal views. Socialism isn't "more liberalism".
>>457365
I don't. I write what I write for the third parties reading. NATOids think they have this space on lock. Not today, liberal scum.

And yes, I would choose the Taliban over liberals, deal with it. 😎
>>

 No.457373

>>457372
I mean this is true. The memes do glow pretty badly.
>>

 No.457374

File: 1663239072691.jpg (72.5 KB, 702x413, Eufrozen.jpg)

>>457370
I get the impression that the Russians are just very ponderous, and you are getting the time table wrong. It took them 8 years to escalate after the CIA threw down the gauntlet when they did the color revolution and the Kiev/kyiv bloodbath. And it's questionable if Russia really has to escalate, because it looks like Ukraine will probably loose at the present level of attrition.

I sense that you are trying to change the topic, because Europe is in very bad shape and can't really continue this. Mending relations with Russia enough to restore at least some energy supply is the only real choice.

Consider that if Europe implodes, it will also wipe out the US markets. It will cause economic chaos, social unrest and cut off the flow of weapons and funding that keep the Ukrainian regime afloat. Russia would be able to march through Ukraine with almost no resistance after that. Depending how long it takes for the west to recover, Russia might even get the opportunity to gobble up some of the Baltic countries.

Von der Leyen's politics are diametrically opposed to the interests of the European population, this is a radical departure from anything that even resembles Democracy, you know where politicians act in accordance of the interests of their voters.
I don't know how many socialists are in this thread but i sense callous disregard towards all the euro-workers, who will also suffer a lot of hardship, for no real reason.

Also from a strategical perspective this is beyond retarded, why didn't they build up an alternative energy supply for Europe before they pushed the Russians into this war ?
>>

 No.457375

>>457374
>Von der Leyen's politics are diametrically opposed to the interests of the European population, this is a radical departure from anything that even resembles Democracy, you know where politicians act in accordance of the interests of their voters.
German foreign minister straight up said they'll support Ukraine, voters be damned.
>German foreign minister vows to support Ukraine war effort, “no matter what my German voters think”
https://warisboring.com/german-foreign-minister-vows-to-support-ukraine-war-effort-no-matter-what-my-german-voters-think/

http://www.frontnews.ge/en/news/details/40326

Then when these people get voted out, they'll shout "Russian interference!" The ruling Swedish party that wanted to join NATO got voted out lol.
>>

 No.457376

>>457372
>When your definition of “liberalism” is autonomy and democracy for the working class
>>

 No.457377

>>457359
<<this is all facts and it will all come true because it reinforces my worldview
I bet you unironically cite Grover Furr when making an argument
>>

 No.457378

>>457377
Wrong again. The tank in my flag represents Russia rolling over Ukraine, it has nothing to do with the Soviet Union. If I were a Stalinist, I'd have chosen the Stalin flag.
>>

 No.457379

>>457378
There are no Russian tanks with that red star anymore. Change your flag, zigga.
>>

 No.457380

>>457359
>>clickbait article about a hypothetical some random general mentioned
>I'm going to ignore reality until I can't anymore.
Why do tankies think they can control the narrative like they're still behind the iron curtain.
>>

 No.457381

>>457376
Kek this, and socialism is a kleptocracy ran by gangster oligarchs.
>>

 No.457382

File: 1663252251732.jpg (54.02 KB, 644x353, Z-tank with soviet flag.jpg)

>>457379
>There are no Russian tanks with that red star anymore
that's technically not true
>>

 No.457383

>>457380
This is basically indistinguishable from liberal anti-communist rhetoric.
Your expression basically only has two parts
1 tribal slur for ritual defamation
2 some vague reference to the erroneous ideological concept of authoritarian vs non-authoritarian
>>

 No.457384

Man, fuck that zeggerpol. I've had enough of their hypocrisy - they claim there is a "room for discussion" and that they are not a "zigger board", but when you as much as step on the toes of a zigger mod - they ban you and delete your posts.

Should be renamed fucking copeboard, because that's all they ever gonna do, because it's not gonna get better for Russia.

The best deal Russia could get right now is to sit at the negotiating table and get the fuck our of the puppet republics. Further escalation will only make matters worse and will result in more destruction and death. But obviously these retards wouldn't listen, and Russia wouldn't pull out because of sank cost fallacy. And gets BTFOd in the end again.
>>

 No.457385

>>457378
>The tank in my flag represents Russia rolling over Ukraine
except Russia is "rolling over" in the opposite direction now lol

that flag represents bombing of civilian infrastructure because you got btfod in the open field
>>

 No.457386

>>457372
>Or you can stop being ignorant and look at where those NAFO
I did. They come from randos on the internet.
> Hint: it's not a grassroots effort of people having fun. Not to mention they say "memes against war" yet they crowdfund for the Georgian Legion, a fighting force
I'm also against violence, but I will shoot you if you attack me. That's not contradictory. Self-defense in a war isn't a continuation of war. It's an attempt to end it and end the motivations for it.
>They arm fascists and neo-nazis
Yes, yes, everyone who doesn't want to be part of the "Russian world" is a Nazi.
>But you are an anti-socialist
Yeah, okay, tankie.
>>

 No.457387

>>457374
>I sense that you are trying to change the topic, because Europe is in very bad shape and can't really continue this.
So as a based and redpilled anti-imperialist, shouldn't you be cheering for the EU's self-destruction? Seems like you think they should send more weapons and do more sanctions.
>Also from a strategical perspective this is beyond retarded, why didn't they build up an alternative energy supply for Europe before they pushed the Russians into this war ?
Well, the assumption was that Russia wouldn't start a war if it had something to lose. I guess they forgot that authoritarian states don't work logically.
>>

 No.457388

>>457385
>except Russia is "rolling over" in the opposite direction now lol
They are leaving the tanks behind as a sign of goodwill to the Ukrainians. The Russians have so many tanks that they want to make it a fair fight. And also it's a totally cool tactic to trap the hohols by retreating without taking any of their heavy equipment.
>this is what tankies actually believe.
>>

 No.457389

>>457374
>And it's questionable if Russia really has to escalate, because it looks like Ukraine will probably loose at the present level of attrition.
wishful ziggacope
Ukraine will not fall apart, not after 7 months of war mobilization. If it didn't fall apart in the first few days of the invasion - it will not fall apart ever.

>Europe is in very bad shape and can't really continue this.

>Consider that if Europe implodes
ziggacope
Europe will not "implode"
euro plebs will get a higher energy bill and get their gibs slashed, but euro capitalists will get their bailouts
there will be no popular unrest simply because there is a Big Other who European porks could point finger at and blame "see! it's because of him that you're suffering! support Ukraine!"
Puting basically fucked everything he could have possibly fucked

>Russia might even get the opportunity to gobble up some of the Baltic countries.

lmao, zygoids have gone completely mental when faced with a harsh reality
they're in their own coperealm

>Von der Leyen's politics are diametrically opposed to the interests of the European population

there's no "population" zygod
there are classes

>this is a radical departure from anything that even resembles Democracy

there is no "Democracy", only oligarchy

>you know where politicians act in accordance of the interests of their voters

votes don't matter
Institutions matter

>I don't know how many socialists are in this thread but i sense callous disregard towards all the euro-workers, who will also suffer a lot of hardship, for no real reason.

Fuck euro workers when you ziggers are cheer for russian and ukrainian workers slaughtering each other
Fucking westoid scum

>Also from a strategical perspective this is beyond retarded, why didn't they build up an alternative energy supply for Europe before they pushed the Russians into this war?

Because they didn't thought Russian would be THAT retarded fam.
>>

 No.457390

>>457372
>But you are an anti-socialist by virtue of holding liberal views. Socialism isn't "more liberalism".
Socialism isn't your party oligarchy either tankoid.
Socialism isn't "more liberalism" but it sure as hell is "more freedom and democracy"
>>

 No.457391

>>457372
>NATOids think they have this space on lock. Not today, liberal scum.
why don't you go back to ziggerpol? nazoid scum.
>>

 No.457392

File: 1663262412053-0.jpg (479.86 KB, 2000x1274, USAF_F-16A_F-15C_F-15E_Des….jpg)

File: 1663262412053-1.jpg (372.8 KB, 1600x1200, American logistics.jpg)

File: 1663262412053-2.jpg (365.76 KB, 1024x768, 1663214373063681.jpg)

I'd just like to inform everyone here that Russia cannot win this war, and it will never be close to what NATO forces bring, especially America. Russia will never have overwhelming force in uncontested airspace over its rivals. It will never be able to truck in luxuries like fast food for its frontline soldiers or American products imported to every single base around the world just to give soldiers a notion of home, especially seeing as they can't even get fast food for civilians. It will never be able to completely disable air defenses in a single day, only to continue an air campaign so overwhelming that other nations try to emulate it. It is losing to a third-world military that is propped up by second-hand equipment from the 80s. Russia is a joke, and will remain a joke.
>>

 No.457393

File: 1663262697197.webm (2.86 MB, 854x480, 1653910446234.webm)

>>

 No.457394

File: 1663262875147.jpeg (25.65 KB, 474x351, th-1499835771.jpeg)

>>457392
>b-b-but no you see Ukraine is akshully the best military power in Europe!! Even tho we all thought they wouldn't last a week when russia invaded! That managed to go toe-to-toe with such a powerful enemy by not even mobilizing is a proof how stronk is Russia akshully! Also Russia is not even serious about this "special operation", they're using only 15% of their power! That's not even my final form, Natoids! NATO have no chance if russia gets serious!
this is what ziggers actually believe.
>>

 No.457395

>>457394
Isn't ukraine only as strong as it is because of aid from the USG?
>>

 No.457396

>>457395
Ukraine is not strong.
Russia is just weak and corrupt.
>>

 No.457397

>>457392
white "culture" everyone
>>

 No.457398

>>457397
Well, he is right you know. From a military standpoint, Russia wishes it could do what USA did to Iraq.
>>

 No.457399

File: 1663264373740-0.jpg (98.83 KB, 640x743, 1663075742086921.jpg)

File: 1663264373740-1.jpg (463.56 KB, 753x1024, 1364614369542.jpg)

File: 1663264373740-2.jpg (346.86 KB, 1635x967, 1364832627283.jpg)

>>457397
America is a multiracial nation, anon. This is American culture. What is the military culture of Russia? All I see is corruption and male rape. Unfortunately we know the world must march on to liberalism before socialism. This is historical necessity playing itself out. Do not be sad for Russia's loss. Sometimes a forest must burn down before new things can grow. America is that fire. When the deed is done, it will put itself out.
>>

 No.457400

>>457399
>Unfortunately we know the world must march on to liberalism before socialism.
Russia is liberal capitalist retard.

>What is the military culture of Russia? All I see is corruption and male rape.

Any military culture is shit. To a greater or lesser degree. You will get bullied by your superiors anyway, such is the lot of a soldier.
Tho it is obviously worse in third-world shithole conscription-based militaries, where you basically a slave without rights. From this you have Russian military culture that is basically prison culture. Because they are fucking prisoners.

>Sometimes a forest must burn down before new things can grow. America is that fire.

Nah, fuck you. After America there grows only misery. As is after Russia and any other capitalist war.
>>

 No.457401

>>457400
>Russia is liberal
Top kek, m8. Didn't know authoritarian dictatorships like in Russia were considered liberal. How many years in prison for calling it a war?
>>

 No.457402

>>457401
>liberal is when two parties
topkek
Pinochet Chile was liberal capitalist

Capitalism is always dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, if you step on bourg toes - you will get bitchslapped.
Russia mirrors Ukraine in this regard, they're both cracking down on opposition. As would any capitalist state in a war situation.
>>

 No.457403

>>457402
>Pinochet Chile was liberal capitalist
You realize you can have illiberal capitalist states, right? Singapore is a fucking dictatorship, yet it has the freest markets in the world.
>Russia mirrors Ukraine in this regard, they're both cracking down on opposition. As would any capitalist state in a war situation.
Yeah, I guess the difference is that Russia had practically banned all opposition and political speech before any war started. You're trying to make an equivalence where there is none.
>>

 No.457404

>>457403
liberal is a feature of economic policy, not how many parties you can voot for retard

>Yeah, I guess the difference is that Russia had practically banned all opposition and political speech before any war started.

I'm russian, you're talking out of your ass.
Strelkov is not banned. Anti-war folks are not banned. Yet.
But they will be banned when Russia gets deeper and deeper into this shit.
Tho tor is already getting banned on ISPs side.
>>

 No.457405

>>457404
>Tho tor is already getting banned on ISPs side.
Also, tor pluggable transport doesn't do shit against modern DPI apparently lol.
>>

 No.457406

File: 1663267207016.jpg (123.43 KB, 992x487, GTY-Marches05-jrl-170119_3….jpg)

>>457404
>liberal is a feature of economic policy, not how many parties you can voot for retard
Let's look up the definition:
>Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed and equality before the law.
Damn. Looks like you're wrong, and a fucking retard.
>I'm russian, you're talking out of your ass.
Go outside and call for a stop the the war, then. Make sure you call it that, and not some retarded shit like SMO. Go and do it, Ivan.
>>

 No.457407

>>457406
I don't care about your bourgeois definitions retard.
Poor person has no right to loaf of bread in your liberalism and there can be no equality before the law when the laws are made by the wealthy.

>Go outside and call for a stop the the war, then.

Plenty of people call for a stop of the war online.
You say as if Vietnam protesters didn't got OMONed in your "liberal totally not like in russia capitalism" lol
>>

 No.457408

>>457406
also don't help that retarded ukroids are torturing prisoners on video and proclaim how they gonna kill all russians
and in general it doesn't help that they parade nazi symbolics and ideology

because of this any anti-war cause is dead here until we go full mobilization
>>

 No.457409

File: 1663268277592.mp4 (21.44 MB, 1280x720, 31n39c.mp4)

>>457407
>I don't care about your bourgeois definitions retard.
>I don't care about your definitions that everyone but my retarded cult agree with
Kek.
>Poor person has no right to loaf of bread in your liberalism and there can be no equality before the law when the laws are made by the wealthy.
Yes, yes, we all get your moral indignation. Why haven't you gone out and called Putin a fucking faggot who started a war?
>Plenty of people call for a stop of the war online.
Oh, but not in real life, because that will get you arrested.
>You say as if Vietnam protesters didn't got OMONed in your "liberal totally not like in russia capitalism" lol
Yeah, they didn't, and definitely not during the Iraq war protests. Let's see your "liberal" nation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_anti-war_protests_in_Russia#Repression
Oh, shit. Looks like you don't live in a liberal democracy.
>>457408
>because of this any anti-war cause is dead here until we go full mobilization
Ah, yes. I remember that the anti-war cause was dead in the US because the Taliban are also pretty nasty dudes. People didn't even try because of that. Oh, waith, no. This is an excuse for you to be passive. Will you be so passive when you are conscripted?
>>

 No.457410

>>457409
>I don't care about your definitions that everyone but my retarded cult agree with
lmao, your "definition" is just slogans

>Yes, yes, we all get your moral indignation.

no moral indignation, just that your "definition" goes against reality lol
there's no equality before the law in capitalism
sorry to pop your bubble lol

>Yeah, they didn't

yes lol they did, by fucking national guard

>and definitely not during the Iraq war protests

yeah, lol after they stemrolled Iraq
Russian porks wouldn't have given a fuck about some protesters too if the plan worked and Ukraine fell apart

>Oh, shit. Looks like you don't live in a liberal democracy.

I live in liberal capitalism.
Capitalism and democracy just don't mix.

>Ah, yes. I remember that the anti-war cause was dead in the US because the Taliban are also pretty nasty dudes. People didn't even try because of that. Oh, waith, no.

LMAO
yes, burgers protested invasion righter the Twin Towers collapsed lol
you absolute fucking retard

After how many years have they started to ask questions lol? After 7 months?
>>

 No.457411

File: 1663270169096.png (771.09 KB, 1542x691, Abrams-transparent.png)

>>457410
>lmao, your "definition" is just slogans
It's the foundational principle of liberalism. Or is "workers controlling the MoP" just a slogan?
>no moral indignation, just that your "definition" goes against reality lol
The reality is that this is the principle of liberalism. I understand why you might not get it, being in a country that has never transitioned into liberal democracy.
>there's no equality before the law in capitalism
Looks much more equal here than in Russia. Wonder if that has something to do with the authoritarian government you live under?
>yes lol they did, by fucking national guard
It was one incident, and there was an investigation, because it wasn't supposed to happen. Do you think mass arrests and murders of journalists was supposed to happen in your country? If you don't, then you're more stupid than I gave you credit for.
>yeah, lol after they stemrolled Iraq
Yeah, it's called having a working military. You Russians should try it sometime. Turns out that massive corruption and gay rape don't make for a powerful fighting force.
>I live in liberal capitalism.
No, you live in authoritarian capitalism. Liberal capitalism lets me do things like call the president a fucking faggot out in the streets, or do shit like blame him for gas prices, or even imply that he's a pedophile.
>yes, burgers protested invasion righter the Twin Towers collapsed lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_war_in_Afghanistan#2001
<On September 29, 2001, as many as 20,000 people demonstrated in Washington, D.C., United States, denouncing the impending United States invasion of Afghanistan. The protests were organized by the recently formed A.N.S.W.E.R. coalition. Thousands gathered at Meridian Hill Park (Malcolm X Park) and marched downtown, while elsewhere members of the Anti-Capitalist Convergence clashed briefly with police on their way to Edward R. Murrow Park, across from the headquarters of the World Bank and the IMF. Both groups of marchers converged on a rally at the Freedom Plaza.[1]
Oh, I guess you're a fucking retard, anon.
>After how many years have they started to ask questions lol? After 7 months?
When did your people ask questions about the FSB bombing apartments? Nah, you just kept that guy as president.
Don't take this coming loss as some kind of personal humiliation. Think of it as an opportunity to get some of the boot of your neck. While capitalism isn't great, it's a lot worse when you live in a shithole ran by autocrats.
>>

 No.457412

>>457411
>It's the foundational principle of liberalism. Or is "workers controlling the MoP" just a slogan?
Yes, it's just a slogan if not elaborated further of "how controlled"

>The reality is that this is the principle of liberalism.

your liberalism goes against capitalist reality

>I understand why you might not get it, being in a country that has never transitioned into liberal democracy.

We had plenty of liberal democracy with Eltsyn and his handpicked Putin. You wouldn't even dream of "liberalism" that we had in the 90s lol.

>Looks much more equal here than in Russia.

delusion
maybe more equal for porks lol
but on the other side, business law is one branch of law that works ok here, so I have my doubts

>Do you think mass arrests and murders of journalists was supposed to happen in your country?

what time period are we talking about? I don't know about some mass arrests and shit before this SO started. I don't even know if there are mass arrests now.

>Yeah, it's called having a working military. You Russians should try it sometime.

No, it's called coming off the Cold War victory and being a world hegemon.
Can't have working military with peripheral capitalism, sorry.

>No, you live in authoritarian capitalism.

nah, I live in liberal capitalism where porks have all the freedums the need.

>Liberal capitalism lets me do things like call the president a fucking faggot out in the streets, or do shit like blame him for gas prices, or even imply that he's a pedophile.

And does it change anything lol?

>On September 29, 2001, as many as 20,000 people demonstrated in Washington, D.C., United States, denouncing the impending United States invasion of Afghanistan.

Need I remind you that nobody announced the invasion here beforehand?

>When did your people ask questions about the FSB bombing apartments?

now this is conspiratard territory

>Nah, you just kept that guy as president.

I didn't kept anyone you faggot
porks kept him in power, you need to mail THEM your claims lol
Also, it is YOU faggot burgers who kept Yeltsyn in power and supported him lol
and brought Pootin into presidential office by the hand lol
Maybe you need to look into the mirror

>Don't take this coming loss as some kind of personal humiliation.

Don't worry I wont. I take pleasure in capitalist russia getting humiliated.

>Think of it as an opportunity to get some of the boot of your neck. While capitalism isn't great, it's a lot worse when you live in a shithole ran by autocrats.

more like it's a lot worse when you live in peripheral capitalism
no shit lol

just don't forget about your own advice when you get drafted to fighting ebil russkies or ebil chinese fam
>>

 No.457413

>>457412
>what time period are we talking about? I don't know about some mass arrests and shit before this SO started. I don't even know if there are mass arrests now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia
Anon. Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself, and that's saying something considering you admitted to being Russian.
>>

 No.457414

>>457413
and all these are specifically Pootin doing somehow and not just porks infighting?
Why don't we look at other post-soviet shitholes fam? I'm sure in Ukraine no journalist was assassinated lol.
>>

 No.457415

>>457414
Ukraine is trying to become a liberal democracy and ally with other liberal democracies. This is why Russia invaded, because they will become irrelevant otherwise. Or do you think I don't know that Ukraine has corruption? But let's forget Ukraine. Compare it to America. Where do you think you have more rights?
>>

 No.457416

>>457415
>Ukraine is trying to become a liberal democracy and ally with other liberal democracies.
Was Ukraine not a "liberal democracy" all those years tho? They have more parties than the US! and they had multiple presidents! much democracy such freedom!
why don't you look if some jounos were "disappeared" at that time fam?

>This is why Russia invaded, because they will become irrelevant otherwise.

It invaded because fucking gas. Russian porks just want to fucking sell gas and buy mansions and football clubs in England.

>Compare it to America. Where do you think you have more rights?

America is a capitalist hegemon. Its capitalist class is more united than in Russia, so they don't need a president for life to survive like in third-world shitholes. They can allow some leeway for proles.

Compare Russia to some other third-world shithole. Like Ukraine for example.
>>

 No.457417

>>457383
It's not because it's true. This is another tankie deflection. Since liberals have hysterically criticized tankies, that means all critics are libs.
>>

 No.457418

>>457404
>Anti-war folks are not banned. Yet.
Cope
>>

 No.457419

>>457418
maybe
but at least online there are still anti-war people, anti-war channels
tho I don't even know if youtube is banned already or not lol

But tor getting DPSed is a bad news, just few days ago my second ISP banned tor traffic too, only snowflake bridge is working
VPN is not banned yet, but I need some contingency plan.
I'm gonna get some VPS and VPN into it so I at least would have some plausible deniability for why I use VPN.
I hope they wouldn't ban VPS services, plenty of businesses use them after all.
>>

 No.457420

>>457415
>Ukraine is trying to become a liberal democracy
rofl is that why they've banned over a dozen parties
>>

 No.457421

>>457374
The Ukrainian economy is actually close to collapse right now, sending them more weapons doesn't solve the problem. If the war goes on much longer they'll be forced to capitulate.
>>

 No.457422

>>457421
Ukros will get their loans that they would be paying off generations into the future. But Ukraine will not collapse right now. To valuable an asset to let it die. At least before Russia dies.
>>

 No.457423

>>457375
>German foreign minister straight up said they'll support Ukraine, voters be damned.
This is atrocious, any functioning democracy would get rid of her after that.
>>

 No.457424

>>457387
>shouldn't you be cheering for the EU's self-destruction?
you have bad reading comprehension
reread
>>457374
<I don't know how many socialists are in this thread but i sense callous disregard towards all the euro-workers, who will also suffer a lot of hardship, for no real reason

>>457387
>Well, the assumption was that Russia wouldn't start a war
Russia didn't start this war, the US did in 2014 when they did a regime change, they started a proxy-war in Ukraine, against Russia. Are you one of those people who are incapable of looking at historic context ?
>>

 No.457425

>>457420
Yeah, they banned parties with fucking familiar relations to Putin and those advocating for Russian invasion. U mad?
>>

 No.457426

>>457424
>Russia didn't start this war, the US did in 2014 when they did a regime change
Yeah, dude, because the president running away to another country totally leaves the people there much choice but to replace him. Your revisionist history is pretty fucking retarded.
>>

 No.457427

>>457389
>Ukraine will not fall apart, not after 7 months of war mobilization. If it didn't fall apart in the first few days of the invasion - it will not fall apart ever.
Your logic is unsound surviving the initial days to month of a battle does not grant eternal stamina, Ukraine is definitely losing a war of attrition.

>Europe will not "implode"

>euro capitalists will get their bailouts
it's not really possible to substitute energy with money
>there will be no popular unrest simply because there is a Big Other who European porks could point finger at
political scapegoating does not raise the temperature for people who are cold

>Fuck euro workers

<fuck workers
just a lib after-all
>cheer for russian and ukrainian workers slaughtering each other
The socialists in this thread pretty much all advocate for Ukraine and it's imperial puppeteers to start negotiating for peace with Russia.
>>

 No.457428

>>457425
You mean literal communist and socialist parties with solidarity between Ukrainian and Russian workers?
>>

 No.457429

>>457421
>The Ukrainian economy is actually close to collapse right now, sending them more weapons doesn't solve the problem. If the war goes on much longer they'll be forced to capitulate.
It does look like that. Those recent offenses they launched might have been a last hooray before they fold.

>>457426
You are attempting the deny that the 2014 Euromaidan was use for a regime change operation that the CIA conducted while working together with the neo-nazi groups like Azov-battalion?
Even the western press has admitted to this, at least until February this year.
>>

 No.457430

>>457425
This is stupid, stop making excuses.
They banned all 11 opposition parties.
That's just open dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, not democracy.
>>

 No.457431

>>457427
>Ukraine is definitely losing a war of attrition.
Do ukros have nothing to eat? Do they have no fuel to pour into their trucks? Do they have no spare parts to repair their machinery?

If not, then there is no attrition going on that matters for the course of war.

If needs be every Ukrainian who can as much as hold a rifle will be drafted into the army, will be fed enough as to be able to pull the trigger on said rifle.

You're like Germans waiting for attrition to kick in, except you don't even advance talking massive industrial cities like Germans did.

>it's not really possible to substitute energy with money

you can buy energy with money
the only question is the price
if the price is high enough you will get your gas or coal or wood
maybe not as much as you would like, but enough to keep the ball rolling

>political scapegoating does not raise the temperature for people who are cold

whatever
if needs be protesters will be drowned in blood

>just a lib after-all

no fuck you euroids
I didn't see you care for LDNR and Ukrainian proles being drafted and thrown into meatgrinder, scum

>The socialists in this thread pretty much all advocate for Ukraine and it's imperial puppeteers to start negotiating for peace with Russia.

You advocate only for capitulation.
The thing is, any negotiation from this point would require for Russia to be ready to let go of puppet republics at minimum.
This is just the way it is. Any talks about negotiations if Russia doesn't agree to at least this is pointless.
>>

 No.457432

>>457431
>Do ukros have nothing to eat? Do they have no fuel to pour into their trucks? Do they have no spare parts to repair their machinery?
Yes they have supply problems in all those fields
>If needs be every Ukrainian who can as much as hold a rifle will be drafted into the army
That's the kind of desperation that happens when loosing a war of attrition

>you can buy energy with money

Not if the necessary supply infra structure doesn't exist.

>whatever if needs be protesters will be drowned in blood

there's no coming back from that, and it proves my point that Europe can't continue the sanctions war, it they have to "drown people in blood" to do it

>I didn't see you care for LDNR and Ukrainian proles being drafted

Give up, you can't pretend to care about ethics, after that callous bloodthirsty line you previously wrote.
And for the record I was already opposed to this when the Ukrainian fascists were shooting mortar grenades into Donbass residential zones.

>>457431
>You advocate only for capitulation.
No they could have enforced the Minsk I or Minsk II agreement and that would have ensured they didn't loose any territory aside from Crimea.
Given how things stand now, the Russians probably want more concessions like recognition of the Luhansk and Donetsk republics.
Before this escalated into military war, Ukraine was already in a civil war in the Donbass, and many people got killed, the amount of bad blood from that alone would make it almost impossible to keep Ukraine together. And for that you have to blame the US they armed and funded Azov who is responsible for that split.
I think that the left-over-Ukraine that they could negotiate-for now is still an acceptable deal. The fighting would end, and the possibility for reuniting Ukraine in the future would remain at least in theory. If they continue fighting and Russia grinds them down completely, that will mean a Russian peace dictate and the Ukrainian nation will be dissolved, and all the left-over parts will become new nations. That would eliminate any chance for a potential future reunification. That's what real capitulation will look like.
>>

 No.457434

>>457432
US and EU will not let Ukraine surrender because doing so would be showing the world that wars of aggression will be rewarded. Russia is going to lose, though, so you don't need to worry yourself.
>>

 No.457435

>>457432
>Yes they have supply problems in all those fields
we're not talking about some "supply problems" here
we're talking about major logistical disruptions

you're just coping man, this type of warfare is not NEAR enough to cause attrition that could influence the outcome of this war

hell, the reds managed to win the civil war when there was a chronic deficit of basically EVERYTHING, when fucking Petrograd had nothing to eat
and they still fucking won

so this is just wishful thinking on your part, especially when ukraine is getting supplied by the west

>That's the kind of desperation that happens when loosing a war of attrition

no, that's the kind of desperation that happens when states have the time to mobilize for a total war

>Not if the necessary supply infra structure doesn't exist

are you implying the infrastructure doesn't exist to keep some major part of industry going?
they would conserve capacities of least priority for which there is no energy, build more terminals and tankers, and then get them out of conservation again
this is so obvious that I'm dumbfounded that you ziggers can't grasp it

>there's no coming back from that

lol
just do an "investigation" afterwards and scapegoat someone
easy

>and it proves my point that Europe can't continue the sanctions war, it they have to "drown people in blood" to do it

oh no it fucking can lol
and you bitches wouldn't be able to do anything, because you don't matter and have no power
if porks decided that you need to suffer for Ukraine - you WILL suffer and there is nothing you can do about it, except maybe voot for some other party.. Oh wait, the other parties are all anti-Russia too lol

>Give up, you can't pretend to care about ethics, after that callous bloodthirsty line you previously wrote.

I'm just stating facts.
If needs be, protesters will be drowned in blood. Maybe by using some right wing death squads a-la Pravy Sector.

This is just the way it is zigoid. This is what lays between present time and the "collapse of europe". If you can get past this point, then ok, I agree europe might collapse.
But I have my doubts that you euroids can get past freicorps.

>Given how things stand now, the Russians probably want more concessions like recognition of the Luhansk and Donetsk republics.

delusional
russia has lost the initiative and wouldn't get it back until it goes full mobilization.

but full mobilization would mean further escalation and no negotiations, and this shit can spiral out of control with Nato involvement

without mobilization, ie further escalation russia can only try to negotiate the status of crimea
it NEEDS to give puppet republics, there is just no other way without further escalation

you gambled - you lost
now is time to cut your fucking losses
>>

 No.457436

>>457432
>Before this escalated into military war, Ukraine was already in a civil war in the Donbass, and many people got killed, the amount of bad blood from that alone would make it almost impossible to keep Ukraine together.
That's why I say russia should take refugees from LDNR so as to prevent massacres. It should take responsibility for starting this novorossia psyop that cost so many lives already.

>And for that you have to blame the US they armed and funded Azov who is responsible for that split

I blame everyone. And Russia too for meddling with Ukraine and fanning the flames of this ethnic conflict.

>If they continue fighting and Russia grinds them down completely

Russia will grind itself down together with Ukraine you absolute retadoid

>that will mean a Russian peace dictate and the Ukrainian nation will be dissolved

no, that would mean complete chaos in Russia you absolute dumbfuck

you've completely lost touch with reality by confining yourself to zigger propaganda, there is just no way that Ukraine will fall apart now, sorry to pop your zigger bubble
>>

 No.457437

>>457436
>there is just no way that Ukraine will fall apart now
Ukraine lost Luhansk oblast, Kherson oblast, Mariupol, Crimea, most of Donetsk… by definition they have already fallen apart. Ukraine is a failed state being propped up by Western money.
>>

 No.457438

>>457432
There's not going to be civil unrest because of a lack of Russian oil. Do you think Russia is the only country they can buy oil from?
>>

 No.457439

>>457437
They're taking all of that back now.
>>

 No.457440

>>457437
I don't know what you're trying to accomplish by stating obvious lies. Russia is losing the war pretty badly and now they're talking about a draft in Russia.
>>

 No.457441

File: 1663340976329.jpg (105.72 KB, 814x518, 1663278124618167.jpg)

>>

 No.457442

>>457429
>You are attempting the deny that the 2014 Euromaidan was use for a regime change operation that the CIA conducted while working together with the neo-nazi groups like Azov-battalion?
Yes I do deny that.
>Even the western press has admitted to this, at least until February this year.
No they didn't.
>>

 No.457443

>>457439
The Allies left Kharkov oblast. They are holding Luhansk People's Republic. On every other front Ukraine hasn't made any gains, in fact they're getting destroyed. Meanwhile Russia is making gains in Donetsk, and towards Mykolaiv (Nikolaev) and Bakhmut. This counteroffensive was a PR stunt, because the US is sending more equipment and EU countries are doubling down on their support. The Allies will continue their attacks in winter, while the Ukrainian army is poorly supplied. They're already asking people in Europe to send them warm clothes. Everybody meme'd about Russian forces being poorly supplied, but I will bet you they will have warm clothes and regular meals, while the Ukrainian soldiers will be forced to loot nearby villages for food. They're going to be executing people eho don't cooperate. How do I know? It happened in the Yugoslav civil war.
>>

 No.457444

>>457443
On every other front Ukraine hasn't made any gains,
They made gains all week.
>in fact they're getting destroyed.
Lol no
>>

 No.457445

>Everybody meme'd about Russian forces being poorly supplied, but I will bet you they will have warm clothes and regular meals, while the Ukrainian soldiers will be forced to loot nearby villages for food.
Russian soldiers were stealing chickens a week into the war.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x88vk4r
>>

 No.457446

File: 1663347872621.png (1.03 MB, 1600x1066, ClipboardImage.png)

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/putins-next-move-ukraine
>Putin’s Next Move in Ukraine
<Mobilize, Retreat, or Something In-Between?
>>

 No.457447

File: 1663347941064.png (2.65 MB, 1600x1066, ClipboardImage.png)

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/west-holds-firm-ukraine-support
>The West Holds Firm
<Why Support for Ukraine Will Withstand Russian Pressure
>>

 No.457448

>>457446
>>457447
>foreignaffairs.com
Didn't click, please kill yourself.
>>

 No.457449

File: 1663349500261.jpg (10.37 KB, 214x317, soy-vigilante.jpg)

>Ukraine loses thousands of soldiers to take some land
>Russia loses a couple hundred soldiers
>It's over, Russia is FINISHED!
>>

 No.457450

File: 1663351794587.png (1.38 MB, 1261x937, 1663164292417881.png)

>>457443
>The Allies
What allies?

>>457449
Much obliged.
>>

 No.457451

>>457450
>What allies?
Russian Federation, Donetsk People's Republic, Luhansk People's Republic, Chechnya.
>>

 No.457452

File: 1663355855356.jpg (12.74 KB, 192x192, 164895175953.jpg)

If you defend Ukraine you should kill yourself. But also how easy will is it to get a Ukrainian gf?
>>

 No.457453

>>457452
If you defend war at all you should probably rethink your ideology. Just saying.
>>

 No.457454

>>457453
I support people volunteering themself to be blown up while I sit and watch.
>>

 No.457455

>>457454
Burger moment.
>>

 No.457456

>>457451
So just Russia, then?
>>

 No.457457

>>457453
Agreed, Russia should surrender to avoid more violence.

>>457452
Pretty easy if you're handsome and personable. My neighbors when I was growing up were from Ukraine. They got made when I called them Russian because I thought the USSR was still a thing. I dated the older sister. I'm not handsome, but I am personable.
>>

 No.457458

>>457455
The vatnik fears the burger.
>>

 No.457462

File: 1663359187710.gif (1.88 MB, 498x373, war-were-declared-futurama.gif)

Why has no one talked about the laws regarding the Special military operation in Russia? Isn't Russia not officially at war with Ukraine or something, it's pretty clear Russia needs much more manpower to accomplish whatver goals they have. I don't know but apparently because Russia has not officially declared war a lot of manpower is locked out.
>>

 No.457463

>>457462
It wouldn't matter at this point. Russia cannot train and equip enough soldiers fast enough for it to make a difference at this critical time, and the war is guaranteed to slow down until the winter freeze. The Ukrainians are trying to consolidate gains, and possibly push the Russians out of Kherson before the mud starts. It will go back to slow gains and losses until the freeze allows more maneuver. If the Ukrainians can force a rout or mass surrender in the south, this may basically end the war before that point, though. Russian power is spent, and it's because they failed to plan for this. Russia is going to lose this war. The only thing that matters is how long it will take for them to accept reality. The small conflicts going on in the periphery are proof that everyone sees that the emperor has no clothes.
>>

 No.457465

File: 1663361359371.gif (1.17 MB, 205x211, 545464.gif)

I get second hand embarrassment thinking of how badly the Russian leadership fucked up. If they had tried this invasion in like 10 years they would have had much less resistance from the declining America/NATO.
>>

 No.457466

>>457464
Looks like OMON to me.
Russians better get used to their own Azov lol
it will only get better from here on out
>>

 No.457467

>>

 No.457468

File: 1663362283168.jpg (194.64 KB, 1490x1080, 29.jpg)

>>457462
>manpower
mfw westoid armchair general calls you "manpower"
>>

 No.457469

>>457456
>haha stupid slavs and chechens have no agency, they're mind controlled by Putin from Moscow
mask off moment, lib
>>

 No.457470

>>457469
>they're … controlled by Putin from Moscow
Yes.
>>

 No.457472

File: 1663364797431.png (664.97 KB, 1644x1080, Screenshot_20220916-164447….png)

>>

 No.457473

File: 1663365428940.gif (1.52 MB, 247x290, qdqdqqd.gif)

>>457468
>women
>russian army
Don't tell her what goes on.
>>

 No.457474

File: 1663366264065.jpg (99.89 KB, 720x1118, femboy vdv.jpg)

>>457473
Nah, that's not the reason why. Who would call a vatnik a "man"?
>>

 No.457475

>>457474
It was a nice try I would do the same no way in hell would I die for some ultra corrupt boomer general.
>>

 No.457476

>>457435
Ukraine is struggling to keep it's forces supplied, and that's going to be made a lot worse by Russian attacks on infrastructure that have now begun The fact that Ukraine has conscripted very young and old people is indicative of their tremendous losses.

Europe is not able to maintain it's energy production without the Russian energy exports. At least not on short notice, because building new shipping terminals or pipe-lines would take a decade. (At best Europe could rush nuclear power into production in about half a decade)
The Belgian Prime minister has warned that a de-industrialization spiral-might occur. Many countries like Germany are doing war-time-rationing. Societies have never been so energy dependent as they are now, reduction in power production has much greater impact than it did in the past. You are proving that this is a serious crisis, because you are suggesting that European governments should become fascist and mass murder their electorate, rather then represent their interests. You are so deep into natoid extremism that you can't even recognize that it would cause political and institutional collapse.

I don't see any option for Ukraine to turn the tide against the Russian military. Russia certainly is moving very slow, but that has probably more to do with the fact that Russia is hurting a lot less in the economic war than the west. Russia is probably going to increase it's advantage during winter. It looks like the Ukrainian position to bargain in a peace deal will continue to get worse the longer they wait.

As far as the human side of this conflict is concerned, you seem to be extraordinary uncaring.
If Ukraine throws in the towel in this unwinnable scenario, the workers in Ukraine will cease dying, the Workers in Europe won't be frozen, and the workers in the global south would get more food security. Of course the Ukrainian bourgeoisie would get shafted and the west would look stupid for betting on the looser horse. I don't know they might be able to spin this, (unlike mass murdering the European electorate for not wanting to freeze which can't be spun)
>>

 No.457477

>>457436
>That's why I say russia should take refugees from LDNR so as to prevent massacres.
You are basically arguing the position of the Azov fascists who wanted to displace the Russian speaking people from Donbass, by brutalizing and terrorizing them. The Zionist in Israel are doing a similar strategy for displacing the Palestinians. Except that the Palestinians don't have a protector that is as powerful as Russia.

I have to say i'm quite surprised to se such hardcore right-wing ideas being expressed.

>I blame everyone.

This war would have been prevented simply by upholding the Minsk agreement.
The cost of keeping the peace was incredibly low. Lets face it the only reason the peaceful path wasn't taken was because the US wanted this war.

>Russia will grind itself down together with Ukraine

Ukraine is being ground down, but Russia seems to be pacing it self.
Russia and Ukraine cancelling them self out is just wishful thinking or a NATO strategy that failed, at this point
>>

 No.457478

>>457437
true
>>457439
cope

>>457438
>There's not going to be civil unrest because of a lack of Russian oil.
It's also Russian Gas, in a more general way the problem is Energy
I guess that you are right that this is not really the only factor, Europe has a lot of underlying economic problems that were caused by following Neo-liberal economics, and the energy crisis is just the last straw.
>Do you think Russia is the only country they can buy oil from?
The World doesn't have another Russia sized energy supplier in reserve, just waiting in case somebody needs it. I think economists would call this inflexible supply, that can't quickly respond to demand
>>

 No.457479

>>457440
>Russia is losing the war pretty badly and now they're talking about a draft in Russia.
Meanwhile Ukraine is already drafting children and grandparents.
You have lost touch with reality.
>>

 No.457480

>>457462
>Why has no one talked about the laws regarding the Special military operation in Russia? Isn't Russia not officially at war with Ukraine or something, it's pretty clear Russia needs much more manpower to accomplish whatver goals they have. I don't know but apparently because Russia has not officially declared war a lot of manpower is locked out.

It's a legal technicality to not call this a war.
I guess it's correct that Russian forces are operating on a peacetime budget, and officially declaring war would increase that. I guess that they are doing well enough with the budget force that they aren't willing to buy the "premium war"
>>

 No.457481

>>457465
>If they had tried this in like 10 years they would have had much less resistance from the declining America/NATO.
Maybe but the Azov nazis were shelling civilians in Donbass at an increasing rate. And the US was able to do at least some Nato integration with the Ukranian military. So you also have to take into account the downsides.
>>

 No.457482

>>

 No.457483

File: 1663373132147.png (1.35 MB, 1905x1008, ClipboardImage.png)

>>457481
>were shelling civilians in Donbass at an increasing rate.
Jamie, pull up that slide with the graph that shows how a few thousand people died in east Ukraine from Ukraine vs Russian separatist shelling in 2014, then every year after that up to February 24, 2022, the number of people killed per year was in the double to single digits at the end.
>>

 No.457484

File: 1663377586449.jpg (Spoiler Image, 64.63 KB, 717x1024, 1663363827179158m.jpg)

Bad news vatsisterz. Our limbo champion has been kia in special military operation. Hohol ukronazis will pay. The limbo stick is being lowered.
>>

 No.457485

>>457477
>displace the Russian speaking people from Donbass
lol ignorant westoid
Ukrainians are russian-speaking

>The Zionist in Israel are doing a similar strategy for displacing the Palestinians. Except that the Palestinians don't have a protector that is as powerful as Russia.

Fuck such "protectors" that get a puppet straight out of the kremlin appointed as your head of state that in turn gets you drafted and thrown into meatgrinder with no training while russian nationalists are foaming at the mouth "MORE CANNON FODDER!! MORE MEAT!!"

and inb4 "n-no this is all lies!!", I have people I know who got caught in this shit, among them a 60-something fucking years old grandpa with a severe podagra who got thrown on the frontlines with no supply, no food, no communications, NOTHING, they live like fucking bums

>I have to say i'm quite surprised to se such hardcore right-wing ideas being expressed.

You're the one who spews the most right-wing national chauvinist ideas possible here

>This war would have been prevented simply by upholding the Minsk agreement.

No, it would have been prevented by Russia not doing everything in their power to fan the flames of this meme ethnic conflict.
Russia acted just like NATO in Yugoslavia, by fanning the flames of ethnic conflict, and then rolling in to "protect" the kosovars. Same shit.

Russia was as much hellbent on keeping the flames roaring to have a leverage on Ukraine through puppet republic as was the US to have a leverage over Russia through Ukraine.

>Ukraine is being ground down, but Russia seems to be pacing it self.

You're fucking delusional. Russia has massive casualties too. Especially among the LDNR cannon fodder.
Fucking VDV got owned at Hostomel.

Let me give you a hint about the state of Russia zigger:
Every time I go to the store - I see prices rising. They increased threefold already while "official" inflation is only 15%.

So shove your zigger propaganda down your fucking throat.
>>

 No.457490

>>457483
>He hasn't seen the OSCE reports that corroborate Ukraine escalated from dozens to thousands of shellings in the Donbass before the war, just as the US was calling the day of the invasion, and going harder the more Russia failed to invade.

>being this much of a NATOcel
>>

 No.457491

>>457490
>Still thinking Russia invaded Ukraine to save Donbass.
You have to go back zigger
leftypol.org
>>

 No.457492

>>457485
>it would have been prevented by Russia not doing everything in their power to fan the flames
what exactly has Russia done to "fan the flames" of the ethnic conflict. You can claim their "protection" of the Donbass is insincere, sure, but the Russian speakers were being disenfranchised and discriminated by Kiev. And after the ATO with all the Nazis and Oligarch batallions, and hell the entire Poroshenko era too, they have been proven right. Kiev got taken over by Nazis. NATO puppet Nazis but Nazis all the same as far as being the victim is concerned.


>Ukraine is winning

As far as the war goes though, it's Russia who decides how far Ukraine loses. I don't pretend to know why they take the decisions they do, but it's clear they have the capability of turning the lights, the water and the food off in Ukraine whenever they feel, for as long as they want.

So Ukraine is "winning" the war in the sense that they were "winning" their defense of the big cities. Russia wouldn't commit to taking them with heavy losses,but it would have been no problem for them to raze them to the ground from afar with everyone inside. Or to disable the infrastructure and let them rethink their position for a couple of months of siege.

Ultimately, every day of Ukrainian campaign rests on the assumption that Russia doesn't want to destroy them. That may not always be the case.
>>

 No.457494

>>457492
>I don't pretend to know why they take the decisions they do
Running away without heavy equipment wasn't a choice, retard. Russia doesn't just win because it can't. Russia is going to lose this war, and I called it when they fucked up at Kyiv. It's increasingly obvious that Russia wasn't prepared for this war and was never going to be. They built a broken military from the beginning and it was always going to fail against a prepared opponent.
>>

 No.457495

File: 1663414745001.jpeg (133.24 KB, 369x404, E0308243-E740-4C9D-9235-D….jpeg)

>>457490
>14,000 casualties in 8 years of civil war
<Something like 30-50,000 casualties in 8 months of Russian invasion
>>

 No.457497

Very poor analysis of war ITT. Most of you are just bullshitting at this point.
>>

 No.457498

To clarify: for strategic and logistical reasons, the Russians want control over the Kerch strait and need access to it from the north and west of it by land (the region surrounding the M14 highway). This was possible when Ukraine was an ally but letting NATO have their hands on it is a big no-no. The initial attack on Kiev was a feint in order to redirect Ukrainian forces away from southeastern Ukraine (the region I just described), the entrypoint of which coincidentally being where both pro-Russian breakaway states are located. The Russians are reluctant to show the west their best military resources in action and were bogged down by both poor climate and urban fighting for parts of the campaign. Ultimately, Russia has already achieved their goals, at this point it's a matter of maintaining their territorial gains long enough to negotiate a settlement with Ukraine ("either be pro-Russian again or we'll keep what we took for good") and NATO is betting on this evolving into a scenario similar to the war in Afghanistan by prolonging it and further souring relations as much as possible. Zelensky, who did not desire a conflict, is trapped between to great powers, both of which have the productive capacity to keep the fighting going for a very long time. NATO of course has more resources at their disposal, but numerous factors - popular pressure from isolationists and a volatile economy in particular - might cause the US to pull out.
>>

 No.457499

File: 1663439084848.png (362.5 KB, 1920x1080, 9ioudquwiux81[1].png)

>>457498
>The initial attack on Kiev was a feint
>>

 No.457500

>>457499
Anon, I am not involved in your petty squabbling with the other idiots bickering this thread. What I have posted is an analysis based on a specific war goal. Either counter the central point or fuck off. Labeling everyone you disagree with a tankie is just as dumb as calling anyone who supported Rojava an anarkiddie or NATO shill.
>>

 No.457501

>>457500
Yeah, the point is that you have to be a complete retard to think Kyiv was a feint. The amount of losses in personnel and equipment was probably at it worst during this time. If Kyiv was intended as a feint, then the Russian military is even more incompetent than we previously thought.
>>

 No.457502

>>457501
I'm not here to argue about the competency of the Russian military, so yes, I maintain that the attack on Kiev was a feint.
>>

 No.457503

>>457502
>I'm not here to argue about the competency of the Russian military
>Dude Russians are so retarded
>but they totally achieved their goals already
Anon, nobody is buying this. Cope, faggot.
>>

 No.457504

>>457503
Yes, the Russians can both be inefficient and still achieve their goals. This is not historically uncommon.
>>

 No.457505

>>457502
>I'm going to disguise my copes and intellectual integrity.
You're not fooling no one tankie-san.
>>

 No.457506

>>457505
Yep, whoever told me that this place is better than .org was a fucking moron. The quality of discourse here is almost exactly the same.
>>

 No.457507

>>457504
>Yes, the Russians can both be inefficient
Inefficient would be an understatement. What you are describing would be considered criminal negligence in most militaries around the world. The commanders of these units as well as their leadership would have to be both suicidal and directly planning the deaths of their own men for no tangible gain. If what you are describing is true, then the Russian military isn't just going to lose, it will probably lead to the complete disintegration of the Russian Federation, as it is obviously trying to lose the war.
>>

 No.457508

>>457506
>hurr how dare you try to tell me my retarded statements don't make any sense?
>stop calling out my cope, I'm just le intellectual
You're a fucking retard. It doesn't matter where you go, you will still be faced with a reflection of your own lack of brainpower.
>>

 No.457509

>>457507
To be honest anon, you're the one who seems to be coping here.
>>

 No.457510

>>457509
>n-n-no, y-you're c-c-c-coping.
Man, I think you need assisted living if you think anyone is going to buy this. Obviously you have a mental disability.
>>

 No.457511

>>457510
>>457508
Incessantly calling me an idiot and tankie because you disagree with me doesn't strike me as a case of brilliance either. At this point I've been labeled enough things by leftypolacks alone to cover the entire political spectrum.
Meanwhile, real intellectuals like Chomsky, Zizek and Mearsheimer are laughed at for their supposedly idiotic takes by an army of opinion-wielding adolescents on the internet. Sorry anons, I think I'm going to trust the arguments of those far smarter than I, and certainly smarter than you and your ilk.
>>

 No.457512

>>457511
>Incessantly calling me an idiot and tankie because you disagree
No. I called you those things because they sound like things a mentally challenged tankie would say, I then told you why I disagree with you, and you're still going.
>Meanwhile, real intellectuals like Chomsky, Zizek and Mearsheimer
Zizek agrees with me, and not you. Chomsky has aged out of thinking and Mearsheimer is a fucking idiot, like you.
> Sorry anons, I think I'm going to trust the arguments of those far smarter
You're too fucking stupid to judge who is and isn't smart, and it shows.
>>

 No.457513

>>457512
>Zizek agrees with me, and not you.
Just what side do you think I'm on?
>>

 No.457514

>>457513
You lumped him in with Chomsky and Mearsheimer. You don't know what you're talking about, and it shows.
>>

 No.457515

>>457514
Yes anon, I like to consider a variety of perspectives. Why does that bother you so much?
>>

 No.457516

>>457515
>Meanwhile, real intellectuals like Chomsky, Zizek and Mearsheimer are laughed at for their supposedly idiotic takes
Anon, it's clear you didn't read shit, and just assumed they all backed what you already think. We're not stupid, and can go back and read the rest of the thread.
>>

 No.457517

>>457506
No way in hell, you can actually argue with tankies here without getting banned.
We just have a few particularly dumb tankies that think repeating their talking points is actually changing people's minds here.
>>

 No.457518

>>457517
>*posts analysis*
<your entire post is wrong because the attack on kyiv was not a feint
>why not?
<because it means the russians are incompetent
>okay, and?
<fuck you stupid tankie fuck
Same level of discourse, just representing a different side. Granted, I do prefer the moderation here.
>>

 No.457519

>>457507
This, of course tankies will just REEEE about how this analysis is NATO shilling.
This is the 21st century and you can't fight a conventional using 1800's human wave tactics.
Russia is about to experience an unprecedented humiliation that might unravel the government itself much like Afghanistan did for the USSR.
>>

 No.457520

>>457516
No, I did not assume such a thing. I love Zizek and I've been closely following him since 2016. I know his stance or the matter very well, and I agree with him.
>>

 No.457521

>>457518
No, your post is wrong because it relies on assumptions that do not pan out in the real world. Kyiv was not a feint, and if it was, then Russia has no hope of winning. Second, your retarded cope about Russia already having acheived goals falls apart, when you realize that the goal of the war was regime change. Russia has failed, and your retarded idea of a hidden goal is just that: cope. Third, the goal you ascribe to Russia is also one that it hasn't secured because the war isn't fucking over, and every day they are less likely to hold onto any piece of ground, even in Crimea, which is why now Putin is bitching that Ukraine won't accept peace. Did you get all that, dipshit?
>okay, and?
Because your post relies on the idea that Russia is both criminally incompetent and anime-villain tier genius at the same time. This is a contradiction, and any rational person would be able to spot this.
>Same level of discourse, just representing a different side.
I called you a tankie because you're obviously trying to hide cope behind an angstrom-thick veneer of intellectualism, when it's clear you don't know how to fucking read.
>>

 No.457522

>>457518
There's oddles of good faith and solid analysis in this thread. You're deffo a tankie larping as a normie.
>>

 No.457523

>>457520
>I know his stance or the matter very well, and I agree with him.
Okay, so then who has the retarded take, then? Chomsky and Mearsheimer have the opposite take, to such a degree that there is no meeting of the ideas. Why did you cite all three? Oh, yeah, it's because you're a fucking idiot, and have been caught in a lie.
>>

 No.457524

>>457521
>Because your post relies on the idea that Russia is both criminally incompetent and anime-villain tier genius at the same time.
>anime-villain tier genius
Anon…what the fuck are you talking about?
>>

 No.457525

>>457518
>Tankie posts bad faith bullshit.
>Still gets legit countering evidence but it's said with anger because tankies think they are fighting some propaganda war.
>Oh nooooooooo the discourse here is lost!
Maybe Reddit is more your speed?
>>

 No.457526

>>457523
None of them have the "retarded take". I agree with all three of them on different points.
>>

 No.457527

>>457524
>for strategic and logistical reasons, the Russians want control over the Kerch strait and need access to it from the north and west of it by land (the region surrounding the M14 highway). This was possible when Ukraine was an ally but letting NATO have their hands on it is a big no-no. The initial attack on Kiev was a feint in order to redirect Ukrainian forces away from southeastern Ukraine
You are both implying that RUF command had a sensible plan with concrete outcomes, and then proceeded to purposefully lose as many men and equipment as possible by bogging down in the supposed encirclement and dropping some of the best troops in indefensible positions that would only make sense in the even that ground units planned to link up with them. You're fucking stupid.
>>

 No.457528

>>457526
Their points directly contradict each other at every step. Are you fucking braindead?
>>

 No.457529

>>457522
>>457525
I'm the anon that posted >>456034 here and on .org. I've debated with tankies before, they seem to think I'm a liberal. I was also called an anarkiddie for supporting Rojava back on 8chan leftypol. I guess I must be a liberal tankie anarkiddie then, leftypolacks have decreed it so.
>>

 No.457530

>>457529
Yeah, you literally said nothing of note in that post. Forgive me for thinking you had actual ideas, you are, in fact, just a fucking retard.
>>

 No.457531

>>

 No.457532

>>457529
>Deflect criticism of tankies.
>Get called a tankie.
>Cry about it.
You don't live in a vacuum. Have more situational awareness next time if you don't want to be your prounouns ideology mistaken.
>>

 No.457533

>>457530
Care to make an argument?
>>

 No.457534

>>457532
>say one (1) thing that a tankie would agree with
<get called a tankie
Huh, I wonder why anyone would disagree with that.
>>

 No.457535

>>457528
Wrong.
>>

 No.457536

>>457533
You can't make an argument of a non-statement. You have to first say things for someone to argue with you.
>>

 No.457537

>>457536
>I have no argument
>>

 No.457539

File: 1663444702449.jpg (40.29 KB, 600x450, plz-stop-post[1].jpg)

>>457537
It's nice to see you've resorted to trying to say as little as possible. Go one step beyond, and stop posting.
>>

 No.457540

I honestly wonder how NATOcels here are going to cope when the obvious, which has been manifesting itself despite every single western propaganda push, takes the for of an end to the conflict. I say this because it's clear that the propaganda addled in social media have no endgame beyond pushing a narrative at any given moment and feeling included in "their side" of the culture war. But this is site is not worth botting or propagandizing, so presumably the users here have a worldview that informs their posts, which is tumbling down a mountainside hitting every rock along the way.

So I'm genuinely curious how the consensus will change, or if the users here will jump straight into whatever cope the NATO press offers after it's done bleeding Ukraine and moves to another cold war front. That jump is pretty fucking hard to make, but seeing how committed some posters are…
>>

 No.457541

>>457540
Just two more weeks. Watch incel smegma z for more updates.
>>

 No.457542

>>457492
>what exactly has Russia done to "fan the flames" of the ethnic conflict.
are you playing dumb or something? It sent Strelkov and co to start an ethnic conflict there. Novorossya is a kremlin project.
The heads of the puppet republics arrived straight from moscow. Their administration too arrived from russia.

All this novorossya larp is made up. And it will fall apart precisely because it was all made up from the beginning.

>Kiev got taken over by Nazis.

Delusional.
Ukrainians are not much more nazis than russians. All you need to do is listen to russian nationalists to understand this.

Zelensky is not a nazi. Azov and Kraken are the whole VSU. Quit your pathetic coping.

>As far as the war goes though, it's Russia who decides how far Ukraine loses.

lol WAKE THE FUCK UP
RUSSIA HAS ALREADY LOST, at least with its current forces
Without mobilization it will only retreat further and further

and I'm not even sure if mobilization could even make much of a difference with the state of the russian army and industry

you just wait and see, and keep coping, because that all you ever gonna do
You will not see a major russian offensive EVER AGAIN, not until some serious changes in Russia proper at least

>Ultimately, every day of Ukrainian campaign rests on the assumption that Russia doesn't want to destroy them.

You're fucking mental. I don't even see the point in arguing with you zigger cultists anymore.
>>

 No.457543

>>457540
only ones coping here are ziggers
they unironically think that after the whole Izyum disaster russia is still capable on going on the offensive
you ziggers will be lucky if Russia could hold Luhansk and Donetsk by the next summer lol.
fucking idiots
>>

 No.457544

>>457542
>and I'm not even sure if mobilization could even make much of a difference
what I mean is that if mobilization in the puppet republics is any indication, then mobilization will not change anything

Ukraine has already basically grinded (or at least is in the process of grinding) the somehow professional russian army
mobilized troops will not make much of a difference without at least a lengthy training process, with I SERIOUSLY doubt russia is capable of carrying out on a required large scale

throwing untrained poorly supplied troops a-la LDNR cannon fodder will not make much of a difference

I have a HUNCH that russian mobilization will be exactly that
>>

 No.457545

>>457506
>Yep, whoever told me that this place is better than .org was a fucking moron.
LMAO
go crawl back to your ziggerpol if you want an echochamber

if you can't handle freedom of criticism - that your problem
>>

 No.457546

>>457485
You were the crypto fascist poster that suggested Russia should have let the Azov-Nazis just ethnically cleanse the Donbass. And when you got called out on your shit, you went on a big rant to distract from that. Let me remind you again.

Why didn't they just enforce the Minsk 1&2 agreements, those were pretty acceptable for all the involved parties. I know the US was hell bend on turning this into a war because they erroneously thought Russia could not survive the Sanctions-war. Which they apparently do, at least prices in Russia are reported to be going down. But there could have been a way to make the Minks agreements work despite the interference from the US.

I think the ethnic conflict has to be attributed to the CIA stuff, they supported the Banderites that were doing the discrimination laws that caused Ukraine to be split so hard it turned into a bloody civil war.

It's very hard to get reliable information from warzones but, it seems that the Russian side is able to minimize their losses. The massive amounts of artillery and other support weapons seems to be effective at that. The Ukranians are the ones that are just throwing human bodies at the font lines
>>

 No.457547

>>457492
>what exactly has Russia done to "fan the flames" of the ethnic conflict. You can claim their "protection" of the Donbass is insincere, sure, but the Russian speakers were being disenfranchised and discriminated by Kiev. And after the ATO with all the Nazis and Oligarch batallions, and hell the entire Poroshenko era too, they have been proven right. Kiev got taken over by Nazis. NATO puppet Nazis but Nazis all the same as far as being the victim is concerned.

That anon you are arguing with suggested in another post that Russia should have done a forced relocation of the people that were being disenfranchise and discriminated by Kiev. That guy is operating with an ethnocentric logic, that because the Russian speakers remained in Donbass with Russian support that counted as fanning the flames of ethnic conflict.
The logic is basically like this:
<Your existence is making me have racist thoughts, stop existing it's causing racism.
>>

 No.457548

>>457492
>As far as the war goes though, it's Russia who decides how far Ukraine loses. I don't pretend to know why they take the decisions they do, but it's clear they have the capability of turning the lights, the water and the food off in Ukraine whenever they feel, for as long as they want.

<So Ukraine is "winning" the war in the sense that they were "winning" their defense of the big cities. Russia wouldn't commit to taking them with heavy losses,but it would have been no problem for them to raze them to the ground from afar with everyone inside. Or to disable the infrastructure and let them rethink their position for a couple of months of siege.


<Ultimately, every day of Ukrainian campaign rests on the assumption that Russia doesn't want to destroy them. That may not always be the case.


Russia is being demonized in the News because that serves the purpose of creating a narrative that is harmful for peace negotiations. But that also means most people don't know that Russia is using at least some level of restraint. So if they ever decided take off the restraints and turn up the mayhem to 11, many people who just watch the news wouldn't even notice the difference. It would just be the same talking heads screeching "Russia bad", and more or less the same newspaper headlines.
>>

 No.457549

>>457546
>You were the crypto fascist poster that suggested Russia should have let the Azov-Nazis just ethnically cleanse the Donbass. And when you got called out on your shit, you went on a big rant to distract from that. Let me remind you again.
You lying fuck.
I said that now russia is gonna lose anyway without further escalation, and so it should take responsibility and take in donbass population and grant them citizenship. That's the least bloody variant.
Further escalation is UNACCEPTABLE because it will result in the rivers of blood.

>Why didn't they just enforce the Minsk 1&2 agreements, those were pretty acceptable for all the involved parties.

Because US didn't want Kiev to because then Russia would've had an influence on Kiev through puppet republics. Just as russia wanted. And this is somehow absolves russia from the blame for current bloodbath? Lmao get the fuck out of here zigger

Kremlin was completely ok with this conflict being frozen, and civilians being bombed, if their Minsk got blocked.
They wanted to then play this separatist card, by unfreezing the conflict later. As they did, to have a pretext for an invasion.
Only, THEY COMPLETELY FUCKED UP THE MILITARY PART OF THE INVASION LMAO

>at least prices in Russia are reported to be going down

Bitch. I live here. Don't tell me about prices westoid scum.

>Banderites that were doing the discrimination laws that caused Ukraine to be split so hard it turned into a bloody civil war

Ingorant westoid
nobody cared about your westoid idpol "discrimination" here

Listen here, and listen carefully westoid, and repeat after me:
UKRAINIANS. ARE. RUSSIAN. SPEAKING.

>it seems that the Russian side is able to minimize their losses

no It seems that you're high on that zigger coolaid

>The massive amounts of artillery and other support weapons seems to be effective at that.

There was basically NO artillery at Kharkov lol you absolute idiot

>The Ukranians are the ones that are just throwing human bodies at the font lines

They throw mechanized division lol
it is russia who uses non-mechanized LDPR cannon fodder lol
>>

 No.457550

File: 1663454152533.pdf (51.29 KB, 67x118, The Return of Industrial W….pdf)

>>457494
Russia was much better prepared for the return of industrial warfare then the West. Even the British think tanks (that they call royal institutes) say so.
>>

 No.457551

>>457547
>That anon you are arguing with suggested in another post that Russia should have done a forced relocation of the people that were being disenfranchise and discriminated by Kiev.
Look here zigger.
Without further escalation - russia will lose puppet republics. This is just a fact.
Further escalation is UNACCEPTABLE because it will result in orders of magnitude more deaths.
SO the only rational position if you're not a warmongering zigger that is, is for Russia to take in refugees so that they don't get massacred by Ukrainian right wingers.
Russia will lose Donbass, this is just a fact. Russia NEEDS to deal with this fact.
>>

 No.457553

>>457547
<Your existence is making me have racist thoughts, stop existing it's causing racism.
This is basically what every tankie's critique of idpol is.
>>

 No.457554

>>457550
>Even the British think tanks (that they call royal institutes) say so.
keep listening to westoid cranks zigger that push agenda lol
keep coping

and Europe will certainly collapse because some western sensational news outlet said so lol
>>

 No.457555

>>457498
To be fair the US empire doesn't want the Ukraine-proxy-war to go on for decades, they want to go after China next. The US is powerful but it can't do a 2 front war against 2 separate super-powers, which might also become a 3 front war if Isreal and Iran get into a fight in the middle east.
>>

 No.457556

>>457500
>Anon, I am not involved in your petty squabbling with the other idiots bickering this thread. What I have posted is an analysis based on a specific war goal. Either counter the central point or fuck off. Labeling everyone you disagree with a tankie is just as dumb as calling anyone who supported Rojava an anarkiddie or NATO shill.

based anti-sectarian anon
>>

 No.457557

>>457548
>But that also means most people don't know that Russia is using at least some level of restraint.
Cope.
They used all now except for using nukes. And using nukes is a suicide.
>>

 No.457558

>>457500
>What I have posted is an analysis based on a specific war goal.
war goal was announced by Putin at the start of the invasion and by further pleas to ukrainian military to coup zelensky when things gone hairy

the goal was a regime change
>>

 No.457559

>>457511
>Incessantly calling me an idiot and tankie because you disagree with me doesn't strike me as a case of brilliance either.
check out this https://stallmansupport.org/the-practice-of-ritual-defamation-laird-wilcox.html
>>

 No.457560

>s-stop calling me names!
lol keep crying ziggers
just keep in mind that it is YOU who need the ban opposing views, not us

when you don't have jannie powers, this is what you get reduced to - pathetic incessant whining
>>

 No.457561

>>457540
>I honestly wonder how NATOcels here are going to cope when the obvious, which has been manifesting itself despite every single western propaganda push, takes the for of an end to the conflict. I say this because it's clear that the propaganda addled in social media have no endgame beyond pushing a narrative at any given moment

I wonder that as well, usually they switch topics and memory-hole the hole affair, however given how intense the propagandizing was, that's not going to be easy.
>>

 No.457562

>>457542
>Ukrainians are not much more nazis than russians.
I would say that the Ukrainian Nazis got propped up by the CIA, that's the major part that turned this into such a shit-show. If Ukrainian society had been left alone, the Ukranian nazis probably wouldn't have been any more prominent than in other countries.
Russia however does have stronger prohibitions against nazism, and the ethno-right-wingers are on a shorter leach in Russia than in many other places. It's perhaps a legacy of WW2 and of course the fact that the Russian federation is multi-ethnic, and they have no other choice if they wish to keep it peacefull.
>>

 No.457565

>>457562
Just listen to Strelkov, Kvachkov and other talking heads from their movement.
They are fascists, plain and simple. Kvachkov rambles about globalists and jews and how russia is gonna drown everyone in blood lol

they have completely lost it
and it's only gonna get better from here on out
I can see russian rightist going full on fascist from a mile away
expect full blown russian Azovs soon with sonnenrads and shit

After this SO Putin wouldn't matter and you will see plenty of fashoids rearing their ugly heads
>>

 No.457566

>>457549
>I said that now russia is gonna lose anyway without further escalation,
You probably don't know enough about this stuff to make this claim. Many of the people who are very knowledgeable about war seem to be undecided
>and so it should take responsibility and take in donbass population and grant them citizenship. That's the least bloody variant. Further escalation is UNACCEPTABLE because it will result in the rivers of blood.
You are talking about forced relocation for millions of people, many of whom probably really don't want to leave their home.
You have no idea what a mess this would cause, blowing up the Azov-batalion and the Banderits is probably easier.

>Because US didn't want Kiev to because then Russia would've had an influence on Kiev through puppet republics. Just as russia wanted. And this is somehow absolves russia from the blame for current bloodbath?

Russia having influence in Ukraine is normal, because of the geo-graphic proximity, there is a lot of people going back and forth between those countries . The US overthrowing the Ukrainian government, that's however not normal, that starting a proxy war.

>Kremlin was completely ok with this conflict being frozen, and civilians being bombed, if their Minsk got blocked.

The Russian military is destroying those forces that are attacking the civilians in Donbass, so they are trying to protect these people. Anyway blocking the Minsk agreements was wrong.

>Bitch. I live here.

You could be making that up for fake authenticity.
>>

 No.457568

>>457566
new thread >>457563
I will reply to you there
>>

 No.457569

>>457551
I have no reason to believe you have any clue about the military situation
>will result in orders of magnitude more deaths.
So why is Ukraine and the west blocking diplomatic solutions ?

>>457553
that doesn't even make sense, also you said the sectarian slur, we have to assume you are arguing in bad faith

>>457557
The Russian military is estimated to be using about 10-15% of it's force projection capacity.
>>

 No.457592

>>457558
>the goal was a regime change
Source?
>>

 No.457627

>>457592
>Source?
Putin, dumbfuck. Or did you also forget the retarded thunder run to Kyiv?
>>

 No.457666

>>457627
You still haven't provided a source, idiot. You saying Putin said it doesn't mean shit lol. You libs think your thoughts are the ultimate authority on all things, it's weird.
>>

 No.457686

>>457666
>As a result of Bolshevik policy, Soviet Ukraine arose, which even today can with good reason be called ‘Vladimir Ilyich Lenin’s Ukraine’. He is its author and architect. This is fully confirmed by archive documents… And now grateful descendants have demolished monuments to Lenin in Ukraine. This is what they call decommunization. Do you want decommunization? Well, that suits us just fine. But it is unnecessary, as they say, to stop halfway. We are ready to show you what real decommunization means for Ukraine.
Putin does not believe Ukraine should be an independent state. In fact, that is true of all former Soviet Republics. Putin believes he is entitled to exert control over them. The Ukrainian people would rather not. It's not hard to figure out who to side with.
>>

 No.457710

>>457686
Where does it say he doesn't think Ukraine shouldn't be independent?
>>

 No.457733

>>457710
Htat is the implication to anyone that isn't illiterate. His actions said as such when he tried to invade the whole of Ukraine, and not just put troops in Donbabwe and Luganda.
>>

 No.457737

>>457733
>Htat is the implication to anyone
ok schizo
>His actions said as such when he tried to invade the whole of Ukraine
if he tried to invade a bit of Ukraine, would that have meant he was committed to the independence of Ukraine?
>>

 No.457739

>>457372
The Serb Sperg is back!
>>

 No.457786

>>457739
>it's a Shqiptar doesn't know any other Yugoslavian republic except Serbia episode
I bet you celebrate US bases in Albania and Kosovo, imperialist cuck.

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