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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1623126526010.png ( 63.31 KB , 336x469 , socialism will win.png )

 No.304257[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

This is the thread for good news.

People have a tendency to focus on what is going wrong and miss out on what is going well.
I'm also suspecting that there is a doomer astroturf going on.

To counteract this a little i want to ask you to post uplifting news.
494 posts and 141 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.478810

>>478804
These guys think hitting thirty is old age.
>OMG IM SO OLD BCUZ IM THIRTY AND I DONT HAVE A GF
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 No.478811

>>351336
Lets go surfin now
Everyones learnin how
Come on a surfin safari with meee……
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 No.479554

I think it is pretty comforting that most socialists thought that the young USSR would be doomed if Germany would not follow up (They had the largest socdem, socialist and communist party around that time with the SPD). But USSR won their civil war, developed so rapidly, defend against Nazi Germany and be the second superpower within 30 years and constant besieging. Nowadays they would have it even easier with modern computers and internet to make a fairly sophisticated actual planned economy.
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 No.479653

tankies should focus on defending things more. "talks" are manipulative and have always been like that.
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 No.479665

>>479554
>Nowadays they would have it even easier with modern computers and internet to make a fairly sophisticated actual planned economy.
Yeah if the imperial moron-gang sets off WW3, the silver lining will be the unraveling of the global order to the point where another USSR2.0 can rise. And this time around it won't be held back by technological barriers. If capitalism survives that at all, it'll never be able to go beyond social democracy with lots of well-fare, good public services and strong labor protections.

>>479653
>tankies should focus on defending things more.
Probably yes, a lot of contemporary anti-communism tries to justify it self on the basis of lies about the history of socialism in the 20th century.


File: 1709664963081.jpg ( 70.73 KB , 450x359 , beware-the-banksters.jpg )

 No.479520[Reply]

>all wars are bankers wars
And other such myopic oversimplifications about the world. Views are frequently paired with goldbuggery and delusions about cryptotokens.

I think we can all agree that finance capitalists are scum. Even feudal lords and slave masters had regular power struggles with finance capitalists trying to control society through usury. The problem is some right wingers think they're the only problematic capitalist and have difficulty broadening their scope to a more systemic social critique. How we we get these dumbos to see the bigger picture?
46 posts and 6 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.479594

>>479593
Do you think you're anything other than a fag? Go away. You have no insight and no one is intimidated by the snark any more. That worked during Obama, but the masses have adapted. Resistance is futile.
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 No.479595

>>479545
think about it this way, if money flows through all of society it can command labor-power and collect surplus value. In a slave society the slave masters command labor power and collect surplus value.

>>479587
>And slaves actually were bred,
No, slave-societies never managed to breed slaves, they had to keep catching new ones. One of the reasons why feudal societies could beat slave societies was because peasants reproduced. Slave population have extremely low fertility, nowhere near population replacement levels.
>down to fucking science. Like cattle.
Also No. Cattle are the result of breeding via artificial selection. That only works on a few rare species like cows, dogs, pigs, sheep, horses, etc. Most species can't be bred, including humans. Humans like most species lack the biological features that make that possible. Humans also have a very long reproduction cycle, so even if it was biologically possible, it would take too long.

It's probably possible to breed Elephants from a biological standpoint (there is some debate about it, still) but elephant reproduction cycles are also very long, and that's why elephant breeding isn't really a thing. Nobody wants to invest and wait a thousand years for the returns.
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 No.479606

>>479595
People, including myself, have tried to explain these things to this retard for weeks, even months, on end and he never listens. At worst he will log off and rage quit for a while then come back. At best he will just ignore everything you say and just keep repeating to same stupid debunked talking points over and over again. He just wants the attention.
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 No.479616

>>479539
No, the difference is how the labour-power of the slave was treated in comparision to a proletarian. The slave is entirely tied to their labour-power, selling the slave is selling their labour-power once and for all to be used by the buyer. The proletarian has to sell his labour piece by piece on the market on which he entirely depends upon to sell labour-power as a commoditty (something exchanged only because it has no use-value and the receiever has some use-value out of it).

The slave is not tied to the irrational market, the proletarian is. The slave's existence as lifetime labour-power is guaranteed by his buyer. The proletarian existence has none of this security even when selling of labour-power
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 No.479622

>>479616
When farm laborers were kicked off their land and entered the cities, it was understood to all that their condition was effectively slavery. They had no legal rights, no legal standing, nothing at all that the bourgeois city had to respect or regard. The only distinction is that there wasn't formally a deed saying this person is property in total of another person - but what is an employment contract and the worksheet every worker was obligated to show to receive pay? What is their condition if they are obligated by contract to police their entire life on and off the clock to conform to the dictates of the city and their boss? In an economic and moral sense, the proletarian was considered devoid of any more rights than a slave, and would be treated accordingly. You might convince proletarians to spit on slaves or nigras, or sell them some ideology, but no one is confused about the nature of their relation to society, and what their lives have been. Usually the behavior of slaves is that they don't want this situation to be worse, because existential wank is not a condition laborers in general care for. That's always been an aristocratic vice - and it is an aristocratic vice rather than a bourgeois vice or the vice of producers or technocrats. The typical middle class bourgeois man is not a frilly pissant, but someone thinking how he can make a buck, swap his wife at the parties, and play the part of the game he is allowed to play. Usually the bourgeois man is practical rather than given over directly to fetishism by some blind and unknowable impulse. The reasons why middle class people buy into fads are not difficult to discern if you are allowed to make comparisons with reality, and disregard the mythology regarding social class and what this really is. No middle class person, bourgeois person, is unaware of his own situation and relations to others of his kind at a basic level. It would be impossible for him not to be, and the bourgeois man is more acutely aware of this than any other class, precisely because the bourgeois life is a precarious one by the standards of history. We didn't always have a stable population of city-dwellers with this particular concept of civic participation, where they adopted a very alien manner of speaking compared to what humans had been doing for centuries in the same sort of social position.

Also, slaves aPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


File: 1709642773639.png ( 1.02 KB , 203x164 , alt-stylized-soc-flag.png )

 No.479519[Reply]

Assume
<established cybernetic socialism
<Athenian/sortition/appointment-by-lot democracy
<economy runs on socialist cybernetic planning with labor vouchers and free labor association (what free market ideologues promised, but not delivered)
<socialist country is militarily secure, the population is heavily armed and people's militias are well organized. The professional military established deterrence with heavy long range weapons.

Lets discuss internal security
I propose we dissolve the traditional separation between foreign and domestic spy-agencies.
<Domestic spy agencies are defense.
<Foreign spy agencies are offense.

Most of the countries around the world have imposed population mass surveillance regimes. That means that all their spies have now been unmasked. Either their spies get caught in their own surveillance drag nets, or they stand out as the part of the few that weren't. The premise is that governments will always be able to penetrate each others organizations. The most efficient way of finding foreign spies is now achieved by breaching the other sides mass surveillance system.

If the socialist country turns off it's mass surveillance system (that it probably inherited from the previous bourgeois dictatorship). The socialist spy agencies become more invisible and much more effective than their counterparts.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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 No.479524

File: 1709675532680.jpg ( 87.84 KB , 1600x800 , Coup53.jpg )

Your premise is way too far in the future to be anything other than fantasy. If we get to the point where your assumptions are true, life would be unrecognizably different and I don't know what kind of attacks we would face.

But I think America's strategies in regime change are under-studied by leftists. How come their tactics haven't been co-opted by the left yet? Off the top of my head, let's look at some broad things that the CIA does to overthrow a government:

> Fund right wing extremist groups or religious extremists

< Do lefty groups lack funding? Is that the problem? Common some of you anons are in IRL orgs, what do they materially need to be successful?

> Color revolutions (you mentioned) and protests

I'm thinking of the hong kong protests, but those didn't overthrow anything. Perhaps we should study how places like Iran had their democratically elected government overthrown by the CIA / british feds in the 50's. There's a documentary about that called Coup 53 that I haven't watched yet (picrel).
< leftists should by now know how to protest but maybe they've forgotten

So what does the CIA do that leftists can't? If it's a lack of resources, which ones? I think we need an objective list.

Also for those that are more well-read than me, what other tactics have been employed? Can they be co-opted?

So yeah let's bring this discussion down to earth a bit and think about what we can use that's already been tried and tested by the ruling class. It's been occurring more and more to me that the point of "seize the means of production" shouldn't be to destroy everything and rebuild, but literally use and appropriate every fucking function that capitalism has invented, shamelessly.
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 No.479527

>>479524
A simple and very effective CIA operation to study is the original "orange revolution" in Ukraine in 2004. Victor Yanukovych won a presidential election but the CIA was able to organize enough protests to compel two new elections (the Ukrainian constitution only allows for one) until they got the result they wanted.
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 No.479528

>>479524
>premise is way too far in the future
>life would be unrecognizably different and I don't know what kind of attacks we would face.
the implication of the thought experiment in the opening post is that going hardcore privacy respecting has strategic advantages.

>Do lefty groups lack funding? Is that the problem?

in a way yes
>what do they materially need to be successful?
i'm convinced that socialists cannot copy the methods of political struggle that the bourgeois factions use, because those do commodified politics, which is a kind of simulated fake politics.
Socialists might need a less sophisticated version of labor vouchers as an economic circuit for political struggle.

>I'm thinking of the hong kong protests, but those didn't overthrow anything.

Maybe Chinese counter intelligence hacked into the US surveillance system, and used it to find out who the CIA handlers were, and that's how the Hongkong color revolution was shut down.

>Perhaps we should study how places like Iran had their democratically elected government overthrown by the CIA / british feds in the 50's

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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 No.479534

File: 1709721916520.jpg ( 28.36 KB , 1280x720 , maxresdefault-3814984051.jpg )

>>479519
dog, what a fucking retarded tldr

>In the history of socialist countries, the biggest problem has always been attacks from foreign state actors

lol only the in minds of idealistic shizo leninoids

the biggest problem always was economic backwardness and fucking retarded vanguardoid political system

you assume direct democracy with fucking secret police retardoid, when direct democracy REQUIRES transparency

ie you don't understand wtf you are talking about
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 No.479574

>>479534
So you didn't read the opening post. Because it said it wouldn't require internal secret police.


File: 1708984537537.png ( 853.94 KB , 1200x675 , ClipboardImage.png )

 No.479292[Reply]

Your bravery and sacrifice will never be forgotten. The left needs more men and women with the amount of dedication and courage that Bushnell had.
52 posts and 6 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.479458

>>479456
Your not wrong but to keep it fair, there is a media selection bias for showing the shit that's not normal.

>>479457
This has got to be bugging the ruling class, they want soldiers that are willing to die for their causes, not the causes of "the other side". So keep the memory alive, perhaps to make them less trigger happy when it comes to new wars.
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 No.479459

>>479428
Again with this self projection about being a lazy online leftist retard.
You really need to take meds and see a psychiatrist.l
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 No.479470

>>479459
>pharma propaganda
>bootlicking cockroach scuttles in the shadows
neoliberal garbage
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 No.479505

>>479456
I'm still not sure if it's been established who that one guy is. People have said he's police, Israeli security, or secret service… I'm not sure. But it's batshit insane seeing him dodge around with Matrix moves pointing his gun at a flaming body on the ground while everyone else tries to put it out.
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 No.479506

>>479505
>it's batshit insane seeing him dodge around with Matrix moves pointing his gun at a flaming body on the ground while everyone else tries to put it out
He's probably operating with the logic of
<put the gun between you and the danger
<Fire is danger
In general this is not a bad logic, but it failed in this episode

>People have said he's police, Israeli security, or secret service… I'm not sure.

That might explain the strange behavior, people wouldn't do this unless they have undergone a lot of very specific firearms training drills. This looks like conditioned reactions. Police, Security and spies are more likely to have undergone conditioning. They do that because subconscious reactions are faster than conscious actions, but the speed excludes the involvement of higher reasoning, so there are trade offs. Apparently one of those trade offs might be embarrassing matrix moves in unusual situations.


File: 1709416209050.jpg ( 16.62 KB , 189x350 , C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppD….jpg )

 No.479460[Reply]

>The appeal for the commercial enterprises that are bankrolling the research into the Familiar is indeed the unprecedented penetration into consumers' habitats and unconscious minds that it offers: this kind of AI can operate as a walking, live-in, always-on 'advertisement' for their products. 'It goes far further than that,' Bryant enthuses. 'The Familiar is the ultimate product: a product that collapses commodity, market research and promotion into one another. It's a product that sells you more products.'

http://ccru.net/archive/Commodities.htm

They have predicted so much.
8 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.479497

>>479494
Wages for Chinese workers rose by a factor of 5x over the last generation, how is that cuckoldry ? I wish western workers had any wage-growth at all.

A little over a century ago the Chinese were completely crushed, by the Japanese Empire, the British empire and others. Famine was perpetual, 20% of the population was addicted to Opium, and it was usual for parents to sell some of their children because they couldn't feed them and average life expectancy was something like 33 years. Within the last 100 years the Chinese overthrew their own ruling class, as well as the foreign occupying empires. Their life expectancy more than doubled and in addition to that they rose from the bottom of the "global rank" to the largest industrial power whose industrial output rivals the combined industrial output of the rest of the world. By any measure they're the people that stood up, and now nobody can slap them around anymore

How is this not a success story ?

If you want to complain that Chinese lack civil liberties, i tend to agree, but given their track record of raking in the Ws, what makes you think they're not going to achieve that as well ?

>This is totally different than western capitalism and totally not exploitation.

China isn't de-industrializing, it's not dominated by neocon ghouls that want to blow the surplus of society on stupid imperialist adventures. They build lots of trains and solar panels. That is different.

Chinese workers are exploited there is no doubt about that, but the rate of exploitation has begun to go down.

>Jack Ma? Oh yes, he is a capitalist, but he is /ourguy/ trust me bro.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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 No.479498

>>479495
Oh you misunderstand my politics. The neocons are currently painting China as the big bad scary that's supposed to serve as the next excuse for fear-mongering and war-mongering. I simply can't say negative things about China until they remove it from the big bad scary list, because i wish to avoid contributing to fear/war-mongering.
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 No.479499

we got off topic, somehow threads about bad shit happening in the west somehow always derail into pointing fingers at China. Might be an intentional distraction tactic or something.

>>479492
>I'm not that optimistic.
I guess it's going to be a bitter struggle for
<a free internet that's uncensored and surveillance-free
<technological self-determination
<personal ownership over personal technology

But it can be done, this is a winnable battle.
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 No.479500

>>479497
Reading your post reminds me of myself a few years ago. A few years ago, I would had totally agreed with your post. But not today anymore and I know exactly, there is no point to talk with you about China. In the past I was like you, I was also a total China fanatic. I know all these phrases, I've also read Xi's and Deng's texts. I've been watching CGTN and reading China Daily every day. But at some point I've realized, this all just copium. This world is a mess and believing in chinese socialism and the CPC gave me strength and hope. But in the end, its just a belief. It's a cope. Sooner or later, your belief will shatter as well. I don't even have to convince you, it's just a matter of time.
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 No.479502

>>479497
Btw I agree with you, that we should oppose fear/warmongering towards China.


File: 1709340962018.gif ( 2.73 MB , 510x287 , 1709309864405355.gif )

 No.479429[Reply]

The is supreme Court this morning ruled that Trump is basically allowed to pardon himself and that his trial for the January insurrection is postponed until after the election. This will set a historical presidence for the presidency. Is this the death of anything resembling democracy in the US? It's funny to hear liberal pundents work in circles to try and proclaim the SCOTUS is not political at this point, kek.
10 posts omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.479443

I can also say - this has been in the works for a long time, and certainly has been the plan since the 1990s, acted on by more than a few people in high places. There is a base ready for the next thing - the thing where they get rid of the people they've always wanted to kill. The thrill of torture must be and will be maximized. That is the way this country set for itself.
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 No.479444

We can say what foreign influences wanted it to be this way, but the ugly reality is that this was only possible here, for this purpose. The rest of the world will do whatever, but America will be isolated and made into the end result of this social experiment, as will its closest associates. I'm seeing this set up not just in the US but UK and Israel, hence what is happening to set it in motion.

Really, I don't believe they have a "plan for the world" - they are rooted in transnational authority ultimately as empires must be, but they are probably happy to keep three superstates attacking each other. That's what "multipolarity" is code for - creating Ingsoc and that world. They don't hide that this is what they are engineering into existence, doing everything possible to make it real to drive home "this is what you are". It's ritual child abuse and they revel in it.
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 No.479445

>>479429
Maybe the judges were tired of getting dragged into political mud wrestling

>the death of anything resembling democracy in the US

no that happened when they legalized corruption, and political candidates became pre-selected by "donors"
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 No.479469

>>479445
>Maybe the judges were tired of getting dragged into political mud wrestling

That's why they took the job in the first place.
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 No.479496

>>479445
The supreme Court judges were appointed by trump himself. That's why they ruled they way they did.


File: 1708411705913.jpg ( 12.85 KB , 289x253 , freeassange.jpg )

 No.478975[Reply]

Less than 2 hours until Assanges extradition hearing

This will likely decide the fate of Julian Assange who is a journalist that was kidnapped and tortured for his democracy advocacy.

If the UK extradites Assange to his executioners in the US, the UK will declare it self a rogue state.

https://farside.link/invidious/watch?v=LvdTG56Ubdc
5 posts omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.478989

>>478986
For domestic US politics it is about petty revenge (and partisan bullshit when Clinton is involved), but on a geopolitical stage the Assange case is about flexing hegemonic soft power and keeping its "allies" in line.
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 No.478995

>>478989
I remain unconvinced that soft-power behaves analogous to a muscle that can be flexed. I think soft-power behaves analogous to a finite resource. It has to be build up before it can be spend. A muscle grows stronger the more it's used, a resource just diminishes the more it's used.

I think they are wasting finite soft-power resources for the sake of taking petty revenge on Assange.
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 No.479082

File: 1708648014623.png ( 2.39 MB , 2000x2177 , A1092424-9B24-4B09-B9BB-D5….png )

I love how everyone outside the tiny neolib/neocon bubble universally agrees that Assange is based
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 No.479092

>>479082
yes very based indeed
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 No.479466

>>479082
The same thing applies to hatred of Israel.


File: 1696297729227.jpg ( 40.5 KB , 571x548 , wrinkly pepe.jpg )

 No.475051[Reply]

>"""rules-based international order"""
>there are no rules
>it's not based

Who comes up with this shit??
2 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.475139

I kek'd
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 No.477145

>>475051
Read Franko.

>>475054
This.
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 No.479234

>>475051
kids named capitalists:
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 No.479399

>>475051
I think the idea is that states live in anarchy with each other. They want the opposite of this that is one state enforcing rules to other states.
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 No.479400

>>479399
>one state enforcing rules to other states.
The world's a sphere, can't be done. Even ignoring the complications of geography, sphere's will produce at least 2 major centers of power. Power projection diminishes with distance to the center and if you live on the surface on a sphere, you get 2 optimal spots for a center of power. If you add in geography you probably get between 5 to 7.

>states live in anarchy with each other

Unification by power of Dominion can't solve this, we need to find a different way.

Maybe the offices of politicians need to have globes.


File: 1698786075035.webm ( 4.16 MB , 960x540 , shotsfired.webm )

 No.476529[Reply]

Who's next?

Sometimes a two-word OP is all you need to get the point across. Especially on an image board.
26 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.479286

>>479249
>but it has not happened.
do you know why international unions haven't formed ?
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 No.479291

>>479286
Because China has abandoned its role as leader of the proletariat and has refused to organize the international working class.
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 No.479325

>>479291
Why do you think that creating international unions would require the help of China ?

Also the Chinese are not going to export the revolution as long as they can trade with capitalist countries. So far that strategy seems to have worked for them.
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 No.479328

>>479325
>Why do you think that creating international unions would require the help of China ?

Because the reactionary response will also be international in scope and China of all places should be a safe haven for internationalists to meet and coordinate at the very least.
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 No.479332

>>479328
A safe haven sounds nice, but the planet is very large, and traveling to china a lot might become impractical.


File: 1708028965284.jpg ( 63.65 KB , 1200x672 , 1200-879956178.jpg )

 No.478779[Reply]

https://committeetounleashprosperity.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Them-vs-Us_CTUP-Rasmussen-Study-FINAL.pdf



The survey is a first-of-its-kind look at the views of the American Elite – defined as people having at least one post-graduate degree, earning at least $150,000 annually, and living in high-population density areas (more than 10,000 people per square mile in their zip code) – and compares them to what the average American thinks. The Elites represent 1% of the U.S. population but have an outsized voice on public policy in the United States, with their views seeming somehow to dominate the national conversation. This may be because it is the Elites themselves who determine what that conversation will be about on campus, in the legacy media, and corporate board rooms. Not surprisingly, these people talk about politics far more than most Americans. The data show that nearly a third of them (30%) talk about politics daily or almost every day. Just 9% of the voting public do. It is worth noting that members of the Elites who talk about politics daily have views that are even further removed from the opinions of the voting public. This is true even when the Elites self-identify as Republicans. They typically may be more conservative than Elite Democrats but they still have attitudes and opinions that are far removed from those of the typical American voter. The Elite class – regardless of party – is an exclusive club that sees and experiences America through a different lens than ordinary Americans.

These results confirm what people have long suspected: today, there are two Americas. One is wealthier, more highly educated, and attended the best schools. They put much more trust in big government “to do the right thing” and, by their own admission, benefit from more expansive government policies. They have also been hurt far less by the high inflation of the Biden presidency than those who live from paycheck to paycheck and are in the lower and middle classes.

This Grand Canyon-sized chasm between where every day Americans stand on the state of the country, expanding government power, draconian climate change solutions, and Joe Biden’s job performance may partly explain the Donald Trump phenomenon and his high approval ratings among working-class voters,Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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 No.478780

>>478779
Really ironic article for a group founded by Arthur Laffer to publish.
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 No.478789

what's the troony tumblr thing in OP? Good article for fostering class consciousness though for debate kids/college smarties who don't already know this. Reminds me of the 2014 Gilens paper though not nearly as good.
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 No.478792

Their religion since the 1990s proclaimed humanity would be split into two. Everything they do emphasizes this - why do you all pretend that we're all one "volk"? Humanity was never that. This strange idea has nothing to do with anything that humans, in any society, ever did. It's pure ideology. The only thing that has changed is that the division between haves and have-nots has been made the center of the project, rather than merely a part of it.

It is a rule of political elites that they have the only relevant say in those affairs, in whatever way they are constituted. Ordinary people never have political rights, and voting in a rigged election has nothing to do with politics. It is the exact opposite - a ritual of abasement before aristocracy, where you get to choose which of the assholes you like most in a taste test. It has nothing to do with democracy nor with ruling, since effective rule has always been somewhere in a palace, by those who have any information about what they actually rule and the genuine state of affairs in the world. For ordinary people, they're not even part of the political game or have any real idea what their actions cause outside of their own interests. Why would they? The world as a whole is rarely their concern, and when ordinary people do look to the world, they see that none of this has really helped anyone - certainly not them, but there is no way even in principle we would accept this as a decision-making process. The entire ritual is devoted to telling you that nothing can ever change, and you're never allowed to ask why, or even speak too plainly about the nature of the institutions and humans who rule over you. If that ever happened, most people would elect to remove themselves entirely from such a ruinous arrangement, or better yet, circumvent the rituals entirely and elevate a leader who would put an end to the farce forever, so that most of the people would have what they wanted before this madness began. If any of this was about providing for most of the people anything worthwhile, nearly every institution would be the opposite of what it is. Instead, every institution is designed to destroy and humiliate the people, precisely so the cycle never stops and those cast out are kept out forever. For a time, it was convenient for many of the people to avoid the sacrifices by joining in the rituals, when serving was safe. It is only a matter of when that no longer works, and this happens both individually - andPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
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 No.478794

>>478792
stay in your own thread schizo
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 No.479313

ffs upload .pdf
Not hard


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