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File: 1608528157783.png (2.48 MB, 1500x847, Citystate .png)

 No.5195

This is copypasted from /leftypol/, in case it gets deleted over there for offtopic or whatever.Hello, I played the game for a good 10 hours (though half of that time I was only half playing and watching YT) so I can report back on how it went.Overall, the comments that other people made are correct, it is impossible to play the game as a communist. I was of course expecting the abstractions of playing a Neolib citybuilder attempted to model communism, but I wasn't expecting how broken the game's core systems are.I started out the game but quickly realised that in this game, you can't build a bridge over a river that is more than 1 tile wide. So, I nuked my save and went back to the terraforming stage.After modifying the map some, I built a tiny little commie hamlet, with all lower class (that's what they're called in this game) trailer parks. I found it kind of funny how lower class residential buildings always have grey wasteland type terrain around them, even when they instantly are building on a fresh green forest, as if their slovenly ways drain the life from the very soil around them and they instantly create a trashpit to live in.The game's systems are quite oblique, and there's no construction of for example power or water infrastructure, or schools, police, firefighters, so to increase living standards I had to just pop up the sliders in the economy tab for "healthcare" "education" and "security and justice".Anyway, we quite quickly reached 'Utopian' level living standards, which I was quite happy with, but things didn't seem to be quite working as I would have liked. My answers to the political issues that had been coming through had not exactly endeared me to the upper classes, which I wasn't really expecting, but what I had overlooked was that this game diverges from Simcity 4's mechanics.You see, in Simcity 4, you have Residential, commercial, and industrial demand, and then each of those has lower, middle, and high income demands. So for example, you can have a city with almost all lower and middle income residents but have plenty of fancy high income tech factories and the like.However, in Citystate, there is only lower, middle, and upper income demand, and commercial and industrial buildings can't grow above the first tier of development without middle and higher income demand. So, if no upper class people want to live in your city, your factories can't grow to higher levels.This left me a bit stuck for knowing what to do, but things had become even worse, because my open borders policy for the past years had led to a quickly spiralling problem of 'informal settlers'. Essentially, through a combination of factors I didn't really understand, almost all immigrants had settled in slum tiles that popped up rather than in growing my residential tiles to higher levels.Eventually I noticed that there were even little 'caravan' tiles of a crowd of migrants that would come in from the sides of the map to your city and then create a new slum tile. Apparently, one way to deal with this issue is by building walls or army bases but I didn't do that, obviously. I eventually made a concession to the gravity of the situation and put my immigration policies to neutral, but the damage had already been done, and my city now had about 80,000 slumdwellers, which was more than the entire employed workforce that lived in residential areas. My 'quality of life' meter still read 'utopian', yet the majority of people were unemployed and living in favelas. My city was in a death spiral, and I was now losing a lot of money each month. What could I do?
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 No.5196

File: 1608528157922.png (1.96 MB, 1500x846, Citystate Halcyon 2.png)

I knew what I had to do. The failure of socialism had been demonstrated, and everything had been building to this moment.I had tried to be someone conciliatory and more socdem than commie in how I answered the political issues that popped up, but it wasn't enough.I knew that the only thing that would GET THE ECONOMY MOVING AGAIN and create jobs for the unemployed and homes for the homeless was full on Austrian economics.So, I lowered taxes on the lower classes a bit to try encourage the slum dwellers to build homes, and zoned huge new plots of land for residential and industrial development, but the most important part of the plan was the most difficult. I had to slash not only the public services budget, but also repeal all the laws I had passed to replace them with free market capitalist ones. It had only been about 40 years, but socialism had failed.Socialism had only brought us 'utopian' conditions for the privileged few that were counted in the census, while the majority lived outside the system. I desperately had to bring in foreign investment if I wanted to save Halcyon.It was around this time that I also took a closer look at some of the demographic tools and tried to understand the underlying mechanics a bit better. I noticed in the demographic viewer that not only were the upper and middle class alienated by my prior legislation, but the lower classes actually received a large growth penalty from my perfect education rating.In other words, the lower classes not only did not benefit from education, but they hated education, and it made them resentful and angry. They would rather live in a slum outside the system then have to engage with my benevolent welfarist government.This was a double benefit for me, as I could no longer afford education anyway. So, as I slashed all public services and opened up the markets to the rich, things slowly but surely turned around. The game kept track of your ideology, and while I had started at Communist People's Republic, I had drifted away to Socialist Welfare State through my efforts at reformism. Now, it was time for the Chicago School to hyperdrive my economy, and I went all the way down to Capitalist Democracy.Gradually, over years and years, the slums began to decline and fall in population, and as living standards fell, the lower class began to grow again, with small apartments beginning to replace trailer parks. There still didn't seem to be much interest from the middle or upper classes, but at least the budgets were balanced and stable.After some time, I began to ponder again how the systems worked. I had put the tax rate for middle and high income residents at 0% for a long time now, with no interest despite this. I knew from Simcity that this should be working, and my legislation choices now were conciliatory to the rich, so I looked deeper into it.As it turned out, it was a slider I barely noticed, my sales tax, that was stopping the rich from wanting to move in or invest. It was set at a flat 10%, presumably from my communist constitutional choices at the start of the game, but I didn't really pay it any attention since I made no sales tax anyways, and I couldn't get any commercial buildings to develop. However, when I reduced the sales tax too to 0%, suddenly there was a sea change. As if by magic, the rich began to flock to Halycon (well, not exactly that quick, it still took a while), and as the economy began to grow once again, I even put a bit more money back into public services and increased the standard of living.Eventually, I found a balance that worked okay, and my tenements began to grow into, well, larger tenements. Almost all of the population were still lower class, but the factories had grown a bit and so had commercial buildings, so the unemployment crisis was over. I had removed the boot of government from the neck of the job creators, and a rising tide had buoyed all boats.
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 No.5197

File: 1608528158068.png (1.91 MB, 1500x854, Citystate Halcyon 3.png)

Things were looking up, and I was able to build my first shiny arcologies in a sure nod to the classic Simcity games, but at this point we faced another crisis - that of the environment. For a long time, we had not had any environmental issues, due to my left wing constitutional choices, and even during my market liberalisation phase, I had left most of those in place on the environment.However, even as I went full eco-warrior and passed all environmental legislation, it had no effect. Long story short, after some time I arose on the solution of painting the entire map with forest tiles, as those provided an environmental boost depending on density. However, after doing this painstakingly for some time (there are no brushes so it could only be done one tile at a time), it still had no effect and my environment was still at 0/100. Of course, the middle and upper classes hated this, and it created another crisis. Thankfully, I eventually realised that the problem was not my factories which my economy depended on, but traffic. Despite the fact that there were no traffic black spots on the map, and traffic seemed to move smoothly, it was what was creating all the environmental penalties. I had thought that the monorail, the only public transport option, required me to bulldoze half the city to build, so I had ignored it, but I now realised that it fit neatly over the roads, including the stations. Joy!Once again, as if by magic, the city was saved by green capitalism, and we returned to normalcy.Anyway, to cut a long story short, things progressed in a linear way from there, with my population slowly ticking up, and though there was another slum crisis, I solved it again by cutting lower class taxes and building some more residential areas. I eventually unlocked the highest tier parks and used them to grow skyscrapers so as to stop the endless urban sprawl. I got my population to 400,000 and unlocked the last tier arcology (pictured), which I saw as basically an end to what the game had to offer. I even managed to slide the laws a bit more back to socialist, but I had to make sure not to alienate investors too much, creating basically a social democracy.However, the next day I still had an urge to play more and unlock some more achievements, so I continued to grow my city to 1 million residents through basically the same method.Though I achieved my goal eventually, and even got some cool final level skyscrapers to grow (which is the best bit of these kind of games), my environment rating eventually began to decline again, and this time nothing I did could bring it back. As the population ticked closer to 1 million, I desperately filled the whole map with dense trees (which took ages, but since I was just waiting for people to move in anyway on the highest speed, it was fine). This helped for a while, but eventually it still wasn't enough, and even building monorail and the highest tier roads over the whole map eventually couldn't help. As a last ditch effort, I enacted the most extreme environmental legislation possible, which got my ideology back up to Communist, but this too wasn't enough. My city had simply grown too big and populated, and there was no way to save the environment. A dark omen for mankind perhaps? Perhaps, but that question is left to a greater mind than I.I had achieved the highest population goal achievement of 1 million residents, so I was happy, and the economy was stable despite huge unemployment of 25%. Once again I had reached the problem of not enough upper class demand meaning no investment to grow factories and provide more jobs, and this time, they were turned off due to the low environment score and there was nothing I could do to fix it, but that was alright, as again, things were stable anyway. Now, I just had to write this chronicle of my trials and tribulations, and the story of Halcyon, as the year counter ticked up to 500 years and I would unlock another achievement.
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 No.5198

File: 1608528158223.png (1.95 MB, 1500x854, Citystate Halcyon 4.png)

>>144326To be fair, you can be a capitalist welfare state too, as your nations's ideology prefix is generated by your 'freedom index' (ie economic freedom ranking) and your 'civil rights' (ie standard of living and social freedoms)I do think the developer of this game is a lolbert, but at the same time, I think he also intended for there to be a socialist/left wing playstyle but it doesn't work properly due to failure of the mechanics. For example, you can create state owned mines over mineral deposits, and then use the resources generated in state owned and built factories, but the problem with that is that the amount of money and resources generated by mines is so small that if you wanted to run even a small city on them, you would have to painstakingly prospect the entire map (one tile at a time of course) at huge expense, connect those with roads, and then build factories to use those resources. But the problem with that again, is that although industrial-zone factories will import resources to use if you don't produce them yourself, state owned factories can't import resources, and if all your resources are being used up by industrial zone factories, your state factories will refuse to work and say 'not enough resources'. Point being, it ain't exactly Tropico (though that appears to be what it's trying to imitate)Oh yeah, and mines have a finite supply of resources, so even if you did do that method, your mines would eventually run out and your entire city would fail anyway. Again, you can't import resources for your state-owned factories unlike Tropico.>>144340Makes sense to me right? I mean capitalists never invest capital in places they don't live, do they?>>144346please leave a like if you cri errytim>>144354That could work, but then if your population ever started to grow again you'd be screwed. Factories growing uses up investment capital which is the same resource as upper class residential demand, so upgrading a factory uses up residential demand, and you then have to wait for residential demand to grow again. My point being, it isn't something you unlock once and can then use indefinitely. Overall, even with all my efforts, I never got any industrial building above 3/6 stages, and had to rely on zoning more and more of it.Oh, and by the way, I also forgot to mention in my review that you can fucking build spaceships with all your spare neolib bucks and INTO SPACE in this game, but there's only a couple buildings you can make in the space minigame and if you land in a bad spawn area surrounded by water like I did, you're pretty screwed and may as well just build a new colony.>>144369I'm tentatively interested, but from what I can tell it's just a soviet-themed version of 'Transport Fever' that is even less functional. And if you don't know how non-functional Transport Fever is, it's bad. However, it isn't out of early access yet, so we'll see (I never play early access games since I just find them frustrating and you never know if they'll get finished anyway
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 No.5199

Thanks for devoting your labour time to reviewing this game. I don't think I'll be playing it based on your experiences. Seems like the game is not designed to simulate large populations, rather unfortunate since modern city builders are all trying to do agent simulation which further reduces the population that can be simulated. Is there not a city builder that can create a population like Shanghai or Tokyo? Lack of international trade is a bit infuriating, I suppose this game wants to teach players the magic of autarky.
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 No.5200

>>5199>modern city builders are all trying to do agent simulation which further reduces the population that can be simulatedIs that really fundamental to agent simulation or is it shitty programming?
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 No.5201

>>5200As I understand it, Simcity 4 had rudimentary agent simulation (people living in houses had jobs which they had to travel to and back through your transport network), and it could run cities of millions of people
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 No.5202

>>5201I'm sure hacks that give roughly correct impression are possible, especially if the road geometry in a city-game is 90° angles only. You can fix movement patterns between agents in certain ways that you don't even have to do collision detection / collision prevention by AIs for >99.99 % of pairs, because they are logically prevented by the basic patterns of movement. You can have different zoom-levels of agent simulation. With the zoomed-out version the one that really counts in the end and that works in a more aggregated way (say 1 agent representing 100 people), and a more zoomed-in version (with actors literally only becoming visible, and only becoming real, when zooming in on a small part of the map) where you get a very small population of relatively clever AIs acting within boundaries set by the zoomed-out computation and not affecting the zoomed-out computation at all. Eye-candy, basically. You can read up on results from traffic studies, then do a top-down implementation with centrally steered actors roughly mimicking the results of these interactions – simulating the simulation, so to speak.
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 No.5203

>>5202…well, don't ask me chief, I just like growing pretty skyscrapers.
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 No.5204

I've been trying out this game. To repeat what the OP essentially said, the game operates on capitalist logic and actually trying to play the as any kind of communist simply does not work. It grows for a while, but after you run out of natural resources you're really just fucked. It might work if farmlands weren't so pitiful, but they don't employ hardly anybody and they produce pennies.
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 No.5205

>>5204
Honestly, a lot of city builder sims don't interest me as much anymore because they so tightly rely upon capitalism. Especially the historical period ones where it's just assumed that to develop better technology you have to embrace MORE CAPITALISM.

Anno 2070 looks pretty interesting though since you can either play as a capitalist or an environmentalist in 2070 after capitalists fucked the world with Global Warming and flooded it. I really should try it.

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