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File: 1781298815272.jpg ( 49.73 KB , 640x640 , pngtree-medicine-bottle-wi….jpg )

 No.160845

Is ADHD and ADD real?

What if it's over-diagnosed? What if it's a ploy by big pharma to get kids hooked on stimulants?
>>

 No.160846

It's real as far as I can tell.

but also I really, really think we're going to see the numbers shooting way up the more kids we see raised on tablets and "smartphones." To be totally, totally honest, I think there's a major overstimulation/nurture component here which is probably being unfairly downplayed - the fact that much of the "mainstream" internet today is completely filled with extremely manipulative ads (which isn't even seen as a controversy anymore) and consumerist "content" (ads and "reviews" for toys, games, etc. disguised as shows) on a scale which never existed before (the '80s had kids' cartoons that were just promo for toys, but they still had to put in the effort of writing and animating those) probably has a major effect on the ability of people growing up now to focus and manage their time appropriately.
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 No.160853

its overdiagnosed and a big pharma scam and also a real disorder that needs treatment
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 No.160854

"not paying attention" - isn't there something odd about this phrase? Why do you have to PAY someone? Like what if I'm just trying to live my life?
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 No.160859

>>160846
It’s the opposite. Electronic media is overblamed for ADHD
Also, I think blaming smartphones is kinda overrated because we have TV and comics which were colorful and what not

The real cause of the ADHD epidemic was in the 1990s when schools began to cut back on playtime to focus more on lessons for standardized testing.

The consequence? More kids dozing off and being unable to sit still
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 No.160953

They do exist, but these diagnoses are merely a formality. ADHD can stem from a multitude of causes - some of them even contradictory (classifying them all would take an eternity, so you really have to look at each case individually).
It’s also obvious that "fast-paced" content degrades attention span and motivation (I don't think I'd be in such a mess right now if I hadn't gotten hooked on Shorts and the like).
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 No.160954

>>160953
>It’s also obvious that "fast-paced" content degrades attention span and motivation (I don't think I'd be in such a mess right now if I hadn't gotten hooked on Shorts and the like).


I think there’s more underlying problems than just that tbh.
People like to put electronic media on the same level as actual psychoactive substances.

A lot of people who suffer from electronic media addiction usually has pre existing sociopsychological problems
>>

 No.160962

>>160954

Companies create apps with most addicting features that even regular person can get hooked. They spend a lot of money to be able to attract as many people as for many hours as possible. Technology is an easy distraction for children and for adults. USA education level in teens show that it's in downfall since 2013~ when iPhone and screens appeared. Same level of reading literacy as 1995~. I may be wrong and i'm quite illiterate myself, but i'm sure that phones and technology can affect everyone. Especially already "inattentive" personas are in bigger risk of addicting into it. Sorry if i'm being wrong with data.
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 No.160973

>>160962
People have been complaining about literacy rates for decades.
And funnily enough, kids write walls of text in their posts, making fanfiction, etc

Anytime there’s a new media, adults are always quick to blame all problems on said new tech.
They did the same with TV

Also, kids nowadays spend more time in academic activities than any generation before them.
Schools have gone virtual and are introducing kids into college prep before high school.

Before the 1990s, it was alot more common to have people that were illiterate and dropped out.

Also before the 1990s, kids had more recess time.
That changed when they wanted to make kids do more schoolwork to for benchmark tests.
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 No.160976

>>160973

Before 1990 children were dropping out because schools were so much stricter and nobody wanted to keep up with weak students. Since the "No child left behind" is active, schools in america started giving passes to failing students so they don't lose finances from government. America's schools are having deterioration period.

Many people can write a huge wall of text or say it, but what's the quality? Common day speech/text and academic ext are different. I'm no native, but for my language it applies quite well too.

I understand what you're saying "these young kids are so stupid novadays!" I may have this rethoric. I'm fine with skibidi toilet because we had even more cancerous shit in our day. Children now can draw and animate even better than some adults. (and i'm envy)

I want to say that TikTok is quite predatory and can take a lot of free time and it can affect studying. And it does! And not only tiktok does it - instagram, youtube shorts, twitter… TV can't make you THAT engaged… TV is passive, when screens and phones are active.

Do you know how white people introduced a tribe to smartphones and internet? these people got hooked on porn so fast! today's entertainment industry is centered on killing your time
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 No.160977

>>160976
> I understand what you're saying "these young kids are so stupid novadays!" I may have this rethoric. I'm fine with skibidi toilet because we had even more cancerous shit in our day. Children now can draw and animate even better than some adults. (and i'm envy)

I’m not saying “kids these days are dumb”. In fact I’m arguing against it. A lot of the hatred against Skibidit Toilet is hypocritical when you remember we had YouTube Poops



>I want to say that TikTok is quite predatory and can take a lot of free time and it can affect studying. And it does! And not only tiktok does it - instagram, youtube shorts, twitter… TV can't make you THAT engaged… TV is passive, when screens and phones are active

True to a certain degree. To refer to social media as predatory implies intentional personalized attacks which there are none.

> Do you know how white people introduced a tribe to smartphones and internet? these people got hooked on porn so fast!

That’s because those people were living primitive for a long time. Also, I think that story may have been exaggerated.
If they had been introduced to TV and newspapers, it may have went the same way.

>today's entertainment industry is centered on killing your time

As is everything else past, present, and future.
>>

 No.160978

>>160976
>Before 1990 children were dropping out because schools were so much stricter and nobody wanted to keep up with weak students. Since the "No child left behind" is active, schools in america started giving passes to failing students so they don't lose finances from government. America's schools are having deterioration period.

Another problem as well is that education is excessively specialised and under-individualized. Children are put into large classrooms with no division of competency level.

Students are divided merely by age instead of ability.
Also, schools judge students with collective moralism rather than individual moralism.

And the mere neglect of technical skills taught in school. Everything is purely abstract.

>Many people can write a huge wall of text or say it, but what's the quality? Common day speech/text and academic ext are different. I'm no native, but for my language it applies quite well too.

And you know what? Most working adults talk in commoner language.
Academic language is only used for formal settings to show off how sophisticated you are.

The truth is, academic skills are only used as a disciplinary tool for kids. Adults don’t care about academics beyond that.
Kids whom are academically gifted are often the biggest victims of the working world. They’re often stuck in the lowest jobs, they often are dumbfounded at how to navigate relationships and lack home training.


It’s funny because most of the middle/high school dropouts of previous generations went on to have successful careers in the trades.

Meanwhile, college graduates are often having to send dozen resumes per yearly quarter hoping for a reply back.
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 No.160980

>>160976
> I want to say that TikTok is quite predatory and can take a lot of free time and it can affect studying. And it does! And not only tiktok does it - instagram, youtube shorts, twitter…

>TV can't make you THAT engaged… TV is passive, when screens and phones are active.

Bruh, people used to watch TV for hours upon hours even into the night.
Also, electronic mobile phone media is often used as an auxiliary unit of meatspace activities rather than a substitute.
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 No.160981

>>160977

>I’m not saying “kids these days are dumb”. In fact I’m arguing against it…

sorry for misunderstanding! i worded it badly! yes i meant to agree with you. sorry!

>predatory implies intentional personalized attacks

could you elaborate? i was mostly referring to absurdly effective engagement algorithms, that kill your time. that's what i called "predatory". you say that this word has different meaning? (side note: tiktok is def a place for pedos and predators too… as fbi.gov and roblox)
anyway tiktok wants everyone's screen time, it's made for this, that you scroll more and watch more ads and bs

>TV and Newspaper

Most probably yes but you can't really hook on a newspaper for hours. TV - yes. You are right - this may be exaggerated but i tend to believe it.

>it always was and will

in the future it will be worse + i don't agree with you that (no argument here im just stubborn)
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 No.160983

>>160981
> could you elaborate? i was mostly referring to absurdly effective engagement algorithms, that kill your time. that's what i called "predatory".

So it’s not unlike prime time programming then? Not predatory. It’s tricky, yes but I wouldn’t call it predatory.

>you say that this word has different meaning? (side note: tiktok is def a place for pedos and predators too… as fbi.gov and roblox)


I’m well aware of that. And you know what? Pedos are also working in meatspace areas as well.

>anyway tiktok wants everyone's screen time, it's made for this, that you scroll more and watch more ads and bs

TikTok doesn’t want your screen time. People want to use TikTok for their screen time.
And I find it funny people complain about TikTok while reminiscing over Vine.

> Most probably yes but you can't really hook on a newspaper for hours. TV - yes. You are right - this may be exaggerated but i tend to believe it

You want to believe it because it satisfies the common moral bias against social media.
Also, you can get addicted to reading newspaper and books for hours on end if that’s your only form of entertainment.

In fact, when written media first came out, the elders thought it was evil because kids took to it.
Then, when written media was established as a cornerstone cultural medium, it was mainly religious stories and folk tales that were the common genres.

Original fictional stories weren’t an official genre within itself for a time.
We refer to them as “novels” now.

When novel stories became a new established genre, the elders complained about novel stories corrupting the youth.
>>

 No.160984

>>160982
A lot of academic enthusiasts think technical skills are unnecessary if not detrimental to pedagogy.

The common response from them is “kids can learn technical/life skills at home”.
Yet we all know the track record of parenting and life skill instruction.

Also, social skills are already a thing in schools and it’s a disaster. Mainly reciting dry recycled salutational platitudes. Actual free-range socialization is disallowed for students.
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 No.160987

>>160978

>And the mere neglect of technical skills taught in school. Everything is purely abstract.

i agree here. professors don't care about what you don't understand and what you want in this life. i wish there were social skill classes and proper informatics class.

>Language

Initially we were talking about kids. And i wanted to say that *academic* literacy didn't rise. As for common language- yes it's used widely. where is not used? in science and research, books. it's the place where if it's written commonly it will be considered low quality. also common language has its rules that are based off academic standards. academic standards are created to have a benchmark, so we don't fall into chaos. we can't abolish academic language or pretend we don't need it. we still have many sectors of life where normal language is considered uneducated. many of them fall into "show off" category but indeed is essential. also professional language creates emotional distance in working relationship.

as for "bad students get good life" not always true. we notice is all because these are loud cases. if you're referring to modern CEO's - they quit their school to pursue a business, and they did it good. this idea is incredibly biased. people with lower education work more, and have more experience, they get job offers easily + many jobs in that level. when you're a specialist it will be harder + burger king won't take you since you're overqualified. but it's totally different topic. education matters
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 No.160989

>>160984

AFAIK in university they demand technical skills (Office package at least, AutoCAD, GIS etc)
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 No.160990

>>160980

now imagine a tv like this but you can have it at any moment, not only home. you can bring it anywhere.
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 No.160991

>>160987
>Initially we were talking about kids. And i wanted to say that *academic* literacy didn't rise. As for common language- yes it's used widely. where is not used? in science and research, books. it's the place where if it's written commonly it will be considered low quality. also common language has its rules that are based off academic standards. academic standards are created to have a benchmark, so we don't fall into chaos. we can't abolish academic language or pretend we don't need it. we still have many sectors of life where normal language is considered uneducated. many of them fall into "show off" category but indeed is essential. also professional language creates emotional distance in working relationship.

That’s one thing. I can understand that. And that is still taught and used. There also a lot of common language words that can be used that isn’t vulgar.
But I’m talking about formal language is over prioritized for academic prowess.

> as for "bad students get good life" not always true. we notice is all because these are loud cases. if you're referring to modern CEO's - they quit their school to pursue a business, and they did it good.

I’m not referring those people. They grew up in business families.


> this idea is incredibly biased. people with lower education work more, and have more experience, they get job offers easily + many jobs in that level.

This is what I mean. There’s always a need for automobile mechanics, plumbers, HVAC, electricians, etc.


>when you're a specialist it will be harder + burger king won't take you since you're overqualified. but it's totally different topic.

And there’s been a huge overload in people having degrees especially in STEM.

>education matters

It does but only if it actually reflects the needs of the real world.
If education is mainly just language arts and social studies with no reference for math, history, and science, then it’s useless.

I feel that schools nowadays are steering more towards social science than physical science.
>>

 No.160992

>>160983

dude wtf i can't keep up with you😭 i'm a retarded gen z…
>>

 No.160993

>>160990
At least with smartphones you can still go outside and even use it for social intercourse with other humans.
And again, people don’t just use smartphones as a substitute for meatspace but as an auxiliary unit.

>>160989
Fair point. But I’m talking about mechanical skills.
Like knowing how to change a car tire or fix a CPU.
>>

 No.160994

>>160992
Please stop with the self deprecating humor

Millennials used to referred to as “moronials”
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 No.160995

>>160983

>So it’s not unlike prime time programming then?

it's even "better" because it's centered on your interests and your profile, your data and location. it's targeted to you.

>Pedos are also working in meatspace areas as well.

yes i know. i don't reject it! i just brought it up since i though you meant "predatory" in a "pedo" sence! (fun fact - i have written "d1scird" instead of fbi.gov)
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 No.160996

>>160994

okayyyy i will stop!
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 No.160997

side note - is reading lain imageboard links necessary for our discussion? or you just find it a good read for me/others?
>>

 No.160999

>>160983

i don't really understand this argument here. written media appeared since ancient times!! and as far as i know no ancient egyptian complained about text. am i missing something?

but i think i understand the general message you want to tell me. everyone is complaining "this generation is cooked because of x" and "x is goona ruin kids"

you're right. people love to complain. especially elders. it's true. i can't say that children are cooked with modern animations or whatever. they won't become schoolshooters if they watch an incel podcast tiktok. and yes i do like to agree with that idea because i think social media is evil (i still use them. not tiktok though. sometimes i want to go offline but i feel bad for my online friends who love me)

social media are evil for many other reason that i wont put here since it doesn't relate to our discussion. and social media is a great tool and "invention" for many other reasons too (we have free and open education materials, exchange experiences, etc)

i still can see the tendency of creating media that is easier and easier to consume and takes less and less mental effort to process
>>

 No.161001

>>160991

>language

hm! if you mean the language like this - yes it's to discipline children at first and then educate teens to act properly. such language helps to create silent and disciplined environment that helps to make silence and order (it's easier for teacher to do make classes)

it's necessary but sad. children are hyper-fucking-active and have all the energy to move around. it's incredibly hard for children to concentrate when ambient is friendly and relaxed. i think these two things should be in moderation and mixed appropriately.

>CEOs and Workers, Students.

Ah! i'm sorry! ok ok ok

we can't discard literature art since it's integrated with history and through it we can get the political context of the novel. don't discard written medium since it's a big source of entertainment and information.

as for social science - i really don't know as who people work with these degrees😭
>>

 No.161002

>>160999
> i don't really understand this argument here. written media appeared since ancient times!! and as far as i know no ancient egyptian complained about text. am i missing something

Written media exited mainly for the upper class folk back then.
Look up first century Greece when writing was introduced to the plebeians.

>and yes i do like to agree with that idea because i think social media is evil (i still use them. not tiktok though. sometimes i want to go offline but i feel bad for my online friends who love me)

>social media are evil for many other reason that i wont put here since it doesn't relate to our discussion. and social media is a great tool and "invention" for many other reasons too (we have free and open education materials, exchange experiences, etc)

Social media is a tool. No different from guns.
>>

 No.161003

>>161001
> hm! if you mean the language like this - yes it's to discipline children at first and then educate teens to act properly. such language helps to create silent and disciplined environment that helps to make silence and order (it's easier for teacher to do make classes)

I think discipline should more practical and hands-on. No I’m not referring to spanking but rather more like cleaning up the classroom before and after session.

Using abstract means for discipline never works. Children raised on formalized language as discipline still act out and often are better at getting away with murder due to adults being too flattered by their polite skills.

>it's necessary but sad. children are hyper-fucking-active and have all the energy to move around. it's incredibly hard for children to concentrate when ambient is friendly and relaxed. i think these two things should be in moderation and mixed appropriately.

Schools used to allow free range play for kids to expend their energy. We stopped doing that around the 1990s.

Also, schools reduce autonomous socialization on campus outside of class but then force them to socialize for group projects or make them do essay reports about their pastimes.

Irony is, adults complain about kids being too wild but then when kids are silent, lost in their own worlds not bothering anyone, adults then complain about them being “antisocial”, blaming electronic media

There’s this obnoxious social pathology in adults that make them think that children are toys/pets to be manipulated to conform to some vicarious impression of development.

Kids are goaded into collective socialization. Either through team sports or afterschool recreation or group projects

Kids who are seen having any leisure time by themselves, preferring personal space over noise and unnecessary peer pressure are seen as pretentious.
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 No.161004

>>161001
> it's necessary but sad. children are hyper-fucking-active and have all the energy to move around. it's incredibly hard for children to concentrate when ambient is friendly and relaxed. i think these two things should be in moderation and mixed appropriately.

Our current education system, K-12 was based on Prussian social engineering meant for semi-militaristic means.

Education used to be more apprenticeships and have physical education before forcing kids to sit in dusty classrooms all day for two decades of their lives.
>>

 No.161005

>>160995
> it's even "better" because it's centered on your interests and your profile, your data and location. it's targeted to you.

That’s why I use media downloaders to get all my favorite content.

I only make online profiles to better curate what I want to keep for downloading.
>>

 No.161006

>At least with smartphones you can still go outside and even use it for social intercourse with other humans.

and you get even more opportunities to get distracted and reinforce this habit of checking your phone and using in toilet, ending up sitting there for 30min (i do that!). it's so much easier to get carried away… i should be studying now and instead i'm talking to you on my bed using my phone.

tv is limited so it's better in this sence. and you still can do other stuff when tv is on. the bad thing is- you can't curate your experience and you're being fed whatver the station decides.

>And again, people don’t just use smartphones as a substitute for meatspace but as an auxiliary unit.

yes, many of us use it as a good tool. sometimes it's abused (as in having phone is class or during doing homework, in bed at night instead of sleeping) and sometimes is substituted (having only irl friends for ex)

>Fair point. But I’m talking about mechanical skills.
Like knowing how to change a car tire or fix a CPU.

you're right! i think "changing the tire" can go under driver's license program. changing cpu and taking care of your pc is essential. also safety online

please don't see me as a crazy person that hates everything. i may be critical of social media lately since i feel SICK using anything but Yourube lately. i turned off my discrd notifications on my phone. i deleted tiktok. i ignore all my friends on instagram. and even interacting with people online brings me some kind of ick..? aderrall is doing things to me (ironic, yes?)

>guns and social media are tools

i think comparing guns to social media is a bit wild but i see what you're taking about. thank god guns are regulated in europe. i cant imagine going outside knowing someone has a gun in their jacket. i flinch when i see cops with guns (i see them rarely though)
>>

 No.161007

>>161005

i hope you agree with me on this now! that tiktok and etc is catching your attention very very very good. (i'm sorry if i got you wrong)

i'm 20~ so i feel i can relate good to all these issues. sorry, there was a post from you mentioning Vine - i lost it. did you delete it or i miss it?

tell em about your methods, im genuinely curious and it sounds like an awesome thing to do. you refer to downloading movies? great way to evade algorithms
>>

 No.161008

>>161004

elaborate and tell me more, im genuinely interested and curious now (if you want)
>>

 No.161009

>I think discipline should more practical and hands-on. No I’m not referring to spanking but rather more like cleaning up the classroom before and after session.

Cleaning up genuinely sounds awesome!

>Using abstract means for discipline never works. Children raised on formalized language as discipline still act out and often are better at getting away with murder due to adults being too flattered by their polite skills.

quite wild example but i can say that the same is applied to adults too and the problem won't be fixed by just discipline atp…

as i said it's more a technique to make them silent and stay still during class. to create emotional barrier between student and professor, creating hierarchy and submission.

imho creating hierarchy is wild and i personally hate this in education.
>>

 No.161017

>>161009
> quite wild example but i can say that the same is applied to adults too and the problem won't be fixed by just discipline atp…

Fucking this.
People say “spare the rod spoil the child” meanwhile, adults can act like Karens and not get spanked for it.

> as i said it's more a technique to make them silent and stay still during class. to create emotional barrier between student and professor, creating hierarchy and submission.

>imho creating hierarchy is wild and i personally hate this in education.

I highly agree. Respect shouldn’t mean devaluation of the juniors.
Adults often complain about their bosses treating them like shit but they rationalize it when it comes to children.

Adults will dismiss bullying as kids being kids, even accuse kids of being too soft for crying out against bullying.
But if a kids talked back to an adult, adults go apeshit.
>>

 No.161018

>>161008
I think academics should split children based on competency level rather than age.
The whole idea of academic grade-levels being based on age was a modern phenomenon.

Meaning, if a ten year old kid can solve tenth grade level math lessons, they should be put in tenth grade level math, regardless of how old everyone else is.

Another problem with dividing academic grade levels by age is that it creates artificial cliques and stunted maturation.

A lot of people think a kid dating someone two years older or younger than them is robbing the cradle even though they’re in the same developmental stage

I think elementary school education should be primarily technical skill training.
Like basic cartography/navigation, counting money, growing fruits and vegetables, etc

Middle school will have financial classes, sex Ed, and more intensive technical skill training like building and fixing computers, toys, etc.

High school will be career development

College prep shouldn’t be universalized. It should only be for those who really want it

IMO, due to how much college is oversold in America and the delayed maturation in that culture, college enrollment should be earned by doing community service. A minimum of two hundred hours to enroll per semester.
>>

 No.161024

>>161017
Now, are you talking about actual bullying or bullshit "he said mean things to me" bullying?
>>

 No.161025

>>168018
That sounds great, but then the problem becomes that kids would be incentivized to get gud at testing and study in order to shorten their time spent in school. Why is that bad? Two reasons: (1) kids will graduate years earlier than they do which will leave their parents of teenagers needing a babysitting service while they are at their jobs. LOL everyone gets a two-income household. (2) kids would fail to learn the principle lesson of school, which is how to sit for a designated number of hours in a miserable place doing bullshit work that in no way benefits them. School trains proles to be proles. If they get the idea that hard work actually results in present and tangible rewards then they will be completely shocked when they eventually get jobs where work gets rewarded by nothing but debt.
>>

 No.161028

>>161024
Both

Verbal bullying shouldn’t be dismissed either. If it’s wrong for a kid to say slick shit to an adult it should not be tolerated to do so to other kids


And as for physical bullying, I think it should result in jail time.
>>

 No.161029

>>161025
>That sounds great, but then the problem becomes that kids would be incentivized to get gud at testing and study in order to shorten their time spent in school. Why is that bad? Two reasons: (1) kids will graduate years earlier than they do which will leave their parents of teenagers needing a babysitting service while they are at their jobs.

That doesn’t really sound like a problem.
They can get jobs.
Plus schooling is expensive.

>LOL everyone gets a two-income household. (2) kids would fail to learn the principle lesson of school, which is how to sit for a designated number of hours in a miserable place doing bullshit work that in no way benefits them. School trains proles to be proles. If they get the idea that hard work actually results in present and tangible rewards then they will be completely shocked when they eventually get jobs where work gets rewarded by nothing but debt.

That already happens in our current system.
>>

 No.161030

File: 1782741087758.jpg ( 198.02 KB , 739x1024 , IndustrialChildhood.jpg )

>>161029
>They can get jobs.
It's coming. Kids will be proles sooner than later, and yet they will still be aggressively protected from the terrifyingly dangerous internet.
>>

 No.161032

File: 1782742504579.jpg ( 279.51 KB , 711x700 , MAGA.jpg )

>>161028
As for verbal "bullying" the kid needs to nut up and learn to deal with mean words. Otherwise, you end up with kids who try to be powerful by saying mean words. The kids who like to fake confidence by talking big are always the ones who got talked down to and never learned how to handle it. Prison never did anybody any good, and it doesn't work as an effective deterrant. There are much better punishments, like humiliating public work. Put them in an orange vest and make them pick up garbage on the sidewalk in front of the school.
>>

 No.161033

>>161030
>still using the coal minor strawman.

You know, even back in those days, most kids were doing farm work or in restaurants.
Also, teens working part time jobs isn’t “exploitation”

>>161032
So then why do adults take offense to kids cussing or talking back to them?
You think being called slurs by fellow peers is just “words”?

If this happened in adult spaces, it would result in immediate firing.

Again, why do adults dismiss child-on-child verbal assault?

And, adults do weaponise words on each other a lot.
>>

 No.161034

>>161032
>As for verbal "bullying" the kid needs to nut up and learn to deal with mean words.


So I guess teachers should learn to put up with being called slurs by students.

Adults shouldn’t punish kids for cussing in their presence.

If you think kids being verbally abusive towards peers is a non issue, it shouldn’t be a problem when they do so towards adults.


I also find it funny that people like you with this mindset will get triggered over kids have their own generational slang.
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 No.161036

>>161030
Tbh, the idea of kids being non-proles is a modern practice that is limited only to a few places in the world.
Especially for as long as pubertal age.
>>

 No.161037

>>161032
>Otherwise, you end up with kids who try to be powerful by saying mean words. The kids who like to fake confidence by talking big are always the ones who got talked down to and never learned how to handle it.

Idk man. I think it’s the opposite. Dismissing slurs and other forms of verbal assault encourages juvenile assholes to become trolls.
>>

 No.161038

>>161032
>There are much better punishments, like humiliating public work. Put them in an orange vest and make them pick up garbage on the sidewalk in front of the school.

That would be general duty of all students. And it doesn’t work as punishment anyway.

Bullying is taken far too lightly. If jail time doesn’t work, then they should be beaten senseless or suspended for the rest of the school year.

Otherwise, schools deserve the mass showings they get.
>>

 No.161041

File: 1782763447213.jpg ( 72.32 KB , 960x690 , AngryLittleBoys.jpg )

>>161034
Have fun arguing with your imaginary opponent.
>>161037
If the worst we have to worry about from kids is their being internet assholes, I'll take it. Hell, the internet could use more trolls and fewer people taking it seriously.
>>161038
>That would be general duty of all students
Fuck that shit. They are in school to learn, not to replace manual labor. Manual labor should be presented as the alternative to study.
>Otherwise, schools deserve the mass showings they get.
The real world would seem to lend credence to the opposite of that theory. There are far fewer and certainly less brutal bullies now than there were decades ago, and yet there are way the hell more loser kids shooting up schools to the point that it has become a mundane occurance. Contrary to all prior expectations, as schools have become more laid back, more accepting, and less tollerant of bullying they have also become increasingly dangerous to a shocking degree. Now, I am not going to say that there is causation there, but the corellation is stark enough to disprove your notion for all practical purposes.
>>

 No.161044

>>161041
>If the worst we have to worry about from kids is their being internet assholes, I'll take it. Hell, the internet could use more trolls and fewer people taking it seriously


And then you wonder why we have reactionary zeitgeists. We have too much trolling on the Internet. People think edgy humor is the way to go all the time.

No is allowed to be sincere and be upset. I hate how people always resort to deprecating humor to cope with insecurity. It’s very obnoxious.

>The real world would seem to lend credence to the opposite of that theory. There are far fewer and certainly less brutal bullies now than there were decades ago, and yet there are way the hell more loser kids shooting up schools to the point that it has become a mundane occurance. Contrary to all prior expectations, as schools have become more laid back, more accepting, and less tollerant of bullying they have also become increasingly dangerous to a shocking degree

This low key sounds like a “bring back bullying” type thing.

There’s a lot more loser kids due to anti worldliness and excessive comicalization being imposed onto kids.

Pop culture promotes awkwardness and clumsiness as virtues of youth. Suaveness, cleverness, and worldly intuition are considered toxic.
Lack of bullying is not a problem.

>Fuck that shit. They are in school to learn, not to replace manual labor. Manual labor should be presented as the alternative to study.

In East Asia, kids are assigned cleaning duty after class.
And what’s so bad about adding light manual labor to the curriculum? Learning is only as good as the technical skills that follow with it.
>>

 No.161045

>>161044
ideally, learning would be directly integrated with labor where possible
young people should be educated by workers trained in teaching them on-site, brought in to witness and assist with research, et cetera
schooling as we know it currently should instead be oriented towards things that written assignments and testing actually makes sense for like certain specific forms of the liberal arts, especially literature and language
those taking higher education should receive a wage for learning instead of the promise of higher pay and it would ultimately be more akin to a guaranteed high-quality extended internship

when we underestimate the intelligence of the young, we end up creating stupid adults
>>

 No.161046

>>161041
>less bullying = more school shooters
brilliant materialist analysis
>>

 No.161047

>>161045
> when we underestimate the intelligence of the young, we end up creating stupid adults

We unfortunately do this a lot. The way we portray children in pop culture as excessively cartoonish and wanna shelter then from anything serious.

Whenever kids have burning questions about where babies come from, or about skin colors, or about death, adults often like to resort to euphemisms or dismiss them as being too young to worry about it.

Our current parental philosophy is “let kids be kids” which sounds good at first glance but in reality is actually stifling maturity.

It forces kids to remain the same naive goofballs they were in toddlerhood.

Is it any wonder why teens and vicenarians are notorious for awkwardness and recklessness?

Is it any wonder why people nowadays think that thirty is the start for true adulthood?
>>

 No.161048

>>161046
NTA but I don’t think they meant that
>>

 No.161052

>>161048
then why bring the two up in conjunction and talk about a "strong correlation" to begin with
>>

 No.161054

File: 1782800094689.jpg ( 68.93 KB , 544x544 , WhereMightYouBeFrom.jpg )

>>161044
>No is allowed to be sincere and be upset.
If you are sincerely upset on the internet, then you should not be on the internet. For real, this place is recreation, not something that you have to do.
>This low key sounds like a “bring back bullying” type thing.
To be "brought back" it would have to be gone. If that is the case, then the idea that bullying causes school shootings like >>161038 suggested is bunk.
>In East Asia, kids are assigned cleaning duty after class.
Not exactly models I would want to emulate.
>And what’s so bad about adding light manual labor to the curriculum? Learning is only as good as the technical skills that follow with it.
Because school is for learning. That is its purpose and, ideally anyway, its function. Chores are what kids should be doing at home.
>>161045
You had me until you started talking about paying wages to students. I mean, if your goal is to create proles, that's fine, but I would prefer something with a non-bourgeois goal in mind.
>>161047
pic related
>>161052
You are trying too hard to be mad at the person so you can avoid addressing the point that was made.
>>

 No.161055

>>161054
>You had me until you started talking about paying wages to students. I mean, if your goal is to create proles, that's fine, but I would prefer something with a non-bourgeois goal in mind.
holy shit you are so fucking stupid
what do you think a student will end up being? thats right a worker you dunce
complex labor is labor with the investment of education, hence you pay them a wage, its that simple
how else are you going to properly calculate labor hours in a planned economy
learn some fucking political economy you pseud retard uyghurfaggot
>>

 No.161056

File: 1782802585241.jpeg ( 89.03 KB , 916x660 , ChineseCharacteristics.jpeg )

>>161055
Okay, you are trying to create proles. Forget that whole "classless society" nonsense that cringe ultraleftists like Karl Marx envisioned. REAL socialism is when the state pays wages to workers to produce commodities for it by utilizing the means of production… but that doesn't make the state bourgeois or anything!
>learn some fucking political economy you pseud retard uyghurfaggot
>actually taking political economy seriously
>1867 + 159
>>

 No.161057

>>161056
do you think that marx wanted to magically spin a classless society out of thin air? if you read him, you'd say no, but you clearly haven't.
the input cost of the mill that a worker produced at the factory is no different from the input cost of the skilled labor that a worker produced at the university
and yet your pea brain decided to call this "bourgeois"
and now youre going further and acting like pointing this out is somehow anti marxist "because proles"
tell me the difference between a worker in socialism and a prole in capitalism, if you understand what a mode of production is this should be easy
and if you understand why you cant spin a classless society out of thin air then you should also be able to explain why that difference matters
fucking pseud
>>

 No.161058

>>161054
>If you are sincerely upset on the internet, then you should not be on the internet. For real, this place is recreation, not something that you have to do.

Idk it sounds you’re getting a little pissy right now.
People like you always say “it’s not that serious loosen up” but you’re already complaining about “Reddit spacing”

>Because school is for learning. That is its purpose and, ideally anyway, its function. Chores are what kids should be doing at home.

Why is it that you people have such an allergy to any form of labor or technical skill training being British into schools?

>You had me until you started talking about paying wages to students. I mean, if your goal is to create proles, that's fine, but I would prefer something with a non-bourgeois goal in mind

How is what that anon suggested “bourgeois “?
Our current education system is bourgeois with its pathological contempt for trades and manual labor.

>>161055
People think students are supposed to be divorced from all forms of technicalities. That education is supposed to be about purely abstractions.

>pic related

It sounds like you’re getting a bit pissy.
>>

 No.161059

>>161056
Please refer to >>161054:

>If you are sincerely upset on the internet, then you should not be on the internet. For real, this place is recreation, not something that you have to do.
>>

 No.161060

>>161052
Fair point. Especially since anon said “trolling is not a big issue”
>>

 No.161061

>Because school is for learning. That is its purpose and, ideally anyway, its function. Chores are what kids should be doing at home

Have you considered that not everyone is required to do chores at home? And that chores aren’t limited to home?
Have you also considered that learning isn’t limited to just reciting academic trivia?

>>161056
By your logic, if we want to have a classless society, then that means education should also include technical skills and paying students a wage to blur the lines between student and prole

Your contempt for manual labor and technical skills being in schools is counterintuitive to wanting a classless society.
>>

 No.161062

>>161056
>>actually taking political economy seriously
you mean like marx did when he wrote his critique of it?
what the fuck do you think a critique is?
>>

 No.161064

>>161058
>Idk it sounds you’re getting a little pissy right now.
>I'm not mad! YOU'RE mad!
kek
>Why is it that you people have such an allergy to any form of labor or technical skill training being British into schools?
"Being British" what?
>How is what that anon suggested “bourgeois “?
You are asking how is an entity owning the means of proudction (because planned economy) and paying wages to proles to engage in a productive process (let us not forget that the value of prior education is a portion of variable capital) that produces new commodities which are then sold to people who buy them using their wages bourgeois? If you are paying wages to others to engage in a productive process utilizing commodities that you control, you are definitively bourgeois. That is what that term means.
>>161061
>Have you considered that not everyone is required to do chores at home? And that chores aren’t limited to home?
What you have there is a parenting problem, not a school problem. School should not be an institution that does parents' job for them.
>By your logic, if we want to have a classless society, then that means education should also include technical skills
Yes. Ever notice how whenever anyone says "by your logic" what follows is invariably a disingenuous mischaracterization of the point being addressed?
>and paying students a wage to blur the lines between student and prole
No. That doesn't blur anything.
>>

 No.161065

>>161064
you don't know what a mode of production is
>>

 No.161066

>>161064
>schools?"Being British" what?

That was a typo error

>What you have there is a parenting problem, not a school problem. School should not be an institution that does parents' job for them.

And yet, that’s how schools often end up as. Also, parents can only do so much. If we are to expect kids to spend most of their waking lives at school, spending more time with teachers than their own parents, why not?

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