/b/ - Siberia

>>160874
Well, children and teenagers are obviously innocent. While the young have a profound capacity for cruelty, this is a consequence of biological factors and poor pedagogy. In a fascist, ethnic supremacist regime like Israel, the children might be indoctrinated to believe the state ideology but this is largely a consequence of their desire for positive feedback (praise, treats, etc) and a lack of outside perspective. It also becomes very hard to break that kind of early indoctrination later in life - just look at the "deconstruction" communities for major religions. I think indoctrinating children into cruel, hateful ideologies is in and of itself a despicable crime.

When it comes to workers, my immediate thought is "no." However, I think a few factors are important:

First, while many Israelis are immigrants from other countries, plenty were born in Israel and grew up learning the state ideology as truth. While there was about one generation in Nazi Germany that would have been raised under the Nazi ideology, they also lived (if they were lucky) through the collapse of Nazi Germany and through this had an opportunity to break from that ideology. Israel, in contrast, was formally recognized in 1948 after many years of Zionist migration to the region. This means there are plenty of Israelis who have not only spent their entire life in Israel, but were raised by parents and grandparents who have spent their entire life in the region Israel now occupies.

Second, there is a mandatory military service. I believe this serves as both a way to desensitize the average citizen to war AND to bloody their hands, making them directly complicit in the state of Israel's war crimes. There is now a psychological drive to justify the state of Israel as a way to justify their service - not necessarily to others, but to themselves. I also think that if they end their service after their draft ends, they will feel inclined to defend or at least look away from those who remain both out of a sense of esprit de corps but also because if there are active-duty soldiers they do not have to worry as much about ever being called back up to service.

Third, I have heard that Israel has a very high degree of income inequality, however I do not know how the data looks. I am not sure if that factors in all the residents (i.e., including oppressed minorities) and citizens, or if it includes only the ethnic majority. Still, I think these days the capitalist system has been tuned to keep people in first world nations at just the level of economic instability and hardship that they'll accept, while also giving them examples of what happens if they stumble and stokes the flames of hopes with what COULD happen if they only tightened their bootstraps just a little more with images of flashy wealth. Add in an overt, blatant ethnically supremacist ideology and you have reasons why someone might not want to rock the boat.

Even taking these factors into account, I still think "no." I feel like there's an obligation to at least passively resist a genocide. I also feel like saying that makes me a hypocrite as my tax dollars go to military aid to Israel and I haven't audited the distributors or manufacturers of every product I consume but it's not like the truth changes based on my feelings or how aligned my actions are to it. Gravity still exists, even if I think I can fly and step off a roof.

>>160876
>Well, children and teenagers are obviously innocent. While the young have a profound capacity for cruelty, this is a consequence of biological factors and poor pedagogy.

This is kinda wrong.
It’s not really that as much as society tends to treat youth evil as some sort of special pathology while treating adult evil as normal pathology.

Innocence is a liability

>>160876
>In a fascist, ethnic supremacist regime like Israel, the children might be indoctrinated to believe the state ideology but this is largely a consequence of their desire for positive feedback (praise, treats, etc) and a lack of outside perspective. It also becomes very hard to break that kind of early indoctrination later in life - just look at the "deconstruction" communities for major religions. I think indoctrinating children into cruel, hateful ideologies is in and of itself a despicable crime.

This is why I say innocence is a liability not a virtue.
Children are treated like pets, beaten and condemned for any display of autonomous thought/act.
Religious adults in general are especially obsessed with procreation and indoctrination for ideological reproduction.

Why else are most religious laws more concerned about punishment of children for “disobedience” than punishing adults for abuse of power?

Even in secular society, innocence is enforced into youth as normalcy. Any young person that isn’t idealistic or innocent is seen as damaged goods

>>160874
1. Children.
2. Palestinians, bedouins, druze, anti-zionist Arabs.
3. Non-Jewish migrant workers of the kind that zionists use to do manual labor, and who zionists regularly rape because it's understood that they're goyim "unternensch."
4. Armenian Christians.
5. Haredim.
6. Samaritans, mostly, I think.
7. Ofer Cassif.

I think that's about it.
Otherwise, idk… every adult zionist in occupied Palestine getting vaporized would objectively improve the world in the same sense that a deadly explosion at the world's largest conference of landlords or hired killers would.

>>160881
Jesus Christ shut the fuck up, you fucking moron.

>>160882
>Jesus Christ shut the fuck up, you fucking moron.

Except what I’m saying is true
You guys should shut up about about SJWs and neo Nazis and sexlessness

>>160882
not an argument

we, le good moral people, must destroy le bad immoral people

>>160883
>you guys should
I don't talk about any of those things. Kys.

>what I'm saying is true
You're an annoying dumbass who does not have the social awareness to understand why responding to a statement like "children of zionists are not responsible for the crimes of zionism" with "um ACKSHULLY children aren't REALLY innocent" is annoying, derailing behavior at best.

>>160887
>You're an annoying dumbass who does not have the social awareness to understand why responding to a statement like "children of zionists are not responsible for the crimes of zionism" with "um ACKSHULLY children aren't REALLY innocent" is annoying, derailing behavior at best.

I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying.

When I say “innocence” I mean lack of agency to be willfully benevolent
And yes, innocence is mainly a relative thing and it’s meant to be shed.

Innocence merely means lack of distinction/knowledge about good or evil and other nuances.

It doesn’t mean actual benevolence

And it’s true that adults take advantage of children for being innocent.

Prolonged innocence often leads to stunted psychological development.

Why else are alot of people who grow up in Uber religious households always prone to depravity and cringey logic?

>>160887
>Kys

Funnily enough you imageboard users always say that to others whenever your lack of reading comprehension gets the best of you and end up wanting to a hero because you cannot get any prime age virginal pussy

>>160889
uygha stfu

>>160890
>prime age virginal pussy
This is among the most disgusting 4 words I have ever read on this website.
I reiterate my request that you kys posthaste.

>>160886
It's only a moral argument as much as "war is bad" is a moral argument.

No, and every European American that descended from European settlers can't either.

>>160894
Unspoiler this image to reveal the source of this "being an active participant in genocidal zionist crimes today = the same as being a blood relative of an imperialist from any point in history" fallacy.

>>160892
Isn’t that what you guys whine about missing out on the most?
And why does that phrase disgust you?

>>160891
After you stop whining about lack of pussy, boomers, zoomers, TikTok, radlibs, etc

>>160892
T. Neopuritan

Millennials and zoomers are more hysterical than boomers confirmed

>>160892
>I reiterate my request that you kys posthaste.

Once again, why would I need to do that? You guys do talk about wanting to self-delete all the time because you cannot get a gf

>>160898
>You guys
First off, I'm pretty sure you were here when I first joined this site, because you've been doing the same insufferable schtick this entire time. You need to cut out this retarded bullshit where you act like every other user on this site is a monolith every time you feel defensive. You've been a regular here longer than I have, and unlike you, I don't use /R9K. If anything, between the two of us, you are the "you guys" you're referring to here, not me.

So instead of projecting, address my request directly. I politely requested that you KYS. Don't make this about anyone else, or "you guys" or any of that, this is about you and what you can do to help.

>>160895
>Uh genocide and imperialism aren't still on going via chattel slavery via the prison complex and extreme poverty.
Israel's been around for 80 years. I'm sure plenty of Israelis can claim their hands are clean, just like you!

>>160900
uygha, violations of the treaties with the Indians are still going on, which is way closer to 1:1 than what you're talking about here. It's weird that you immediately backpeddle from your vague "people who are descended from settlers are collectively guilty" opening statement to citing an actual ongoing crime, but the crime you cite isn't even in any way equivalent to the crime being discussed in the OP.

Black people, in the context of the United States, are de facto another group of settlers in terms of the role they fill today, even if they're treated as a lower caste of settlers and originally came to the US unwillingly. A black U.S. citizen still has more rights, in the U.S., than a non-citizen from a tribe whose traditional home spans historic Mexico (both the parts outside and inside of the present-day western U.S.), which is to say that a black U.S. citizen still holds more rights than many natives just on account of having been integrated into the U.S.

>I'm sure plenty of Israelis can claim their hands are clean, just like you!
Some can. I named all of them in this post: >>160882
The only meaningful discussion of guilt is based on culpability, not some abstract blood quantum. To ask whether or not Europeans and the Europeanized should be in the Americas is a moot question - the highest crimes of the American state on present-day U.S. territory have already been committed, and what is to be done is to stop the ones which continue to be committed both in and out of the borders of the U.S. The worst thing that the U.S. is doing today, in terms of grand imperial crimes, is backing zionism, and the majority of Americans today are opposed to this, which is much more than I can say about the majority of "israelis."

>>160899
That would be you because you assume anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a fed or sharty or something.

And especially with telling me KYS which is such a cliche thing to say.

Again you’re not acting any different from anyone else on here whenever someone disagrees with me.

So stop menstruating

>>160902
>you assume anyone who doesn’t agree with you is [thing I never said here]
No, Mr. Bond. I assume you to kys.

>>160899
>You need to cut out this retarded bullshit where you act like every other user on this site is a monolith every time you feel defensive.

That’s funny because everyone likes to throw around the same insults of “you’re a bot” “you’re a fed” “kys” “redditor” “brainrot” “schizo” etc whenever they get defensive

So if you feel like I assume everyone is the same user, maybe it’s because you use the same cliche insults

>>160903
See what I mean? You keep repeating kys like a typical imageboard user

Maybe you should do that since most of you here have social issues?

>>160905
>You keep repeating kys like a typical imageboard user
Typical imageboard users do that to you?
That's so sad.

but not surprising. Kys.

>>160904
>“you’re a bot” “you’re a fed” “kys” “redditor” “brainrot” “schizo” etc
I'm sorry they said all of these things to you, even if it's completely predictable that they would given the nature & quality of your posts.

>>160906
So you’re a bot or another anon that lacks self awareness of how cliche they sound

>>160907
Once again, don’t apologize to me. Apologize to yourself for your willful lack of self awareness. Also given the typical self righteousness of the average imageboard user it’s not surprising that you zero in on me acting like I’m out to get you

>>160906
Maybe you should kill your self because your indignation will never be quelled, the leftist revolution will never occur in your life time.

Society will continue being capitalist, Israel will continue to get away with murder, and right wingers will still get sympathized.

I bet you act like a bitch on here because there’s no username to trace you back.
You probably are quiet as a mouse in meatspace.

Imageboard users are all cowards and antisocial trolls

>>160909
>typical imageboard user projecting their flaws and getting menstrual as usual.

>”No you”
>”you’re a Nazi”

Seriously, at least mainstream platform patrons will have no problem doing a meatspace duel if called out

>>160899
Maybe you stop generalizing people who use TikTok, Twitter, FaceBook, Reddit, Gaia, Sharty, etc

>>160912
>>160910
>>160911
>once again Newgene literally cannot address anything I ever actually said
Also
>Imageboard users
uygha, you have been an unavoidable presence on this site for longer than I have and you're still talking about "imageboard users" like you think that's not you.

>>160913
I did address all you said. You’re just spamming kys
You’re not acting any different from any other user

>>160913
I take it you’re from Ogre?
No wonder.

>>160901
Blah blah blah, just a bunch of Amerishart settler copes. I didn't even read your post.
Point is colonialism and chattel slavery never ceased in America. And Israel is simply an American colony for American Imperialism in the Middle East.
You can literally apply right now in Alabama for slaves to work in your capitalist enterprise.
https://inthesetimes.com/article/alabama-slavery-prison-labor-incarcerated-company-exploit-capitalism-lawsuit
If Gaza is ever annexed it will simply repeat the history of Manifest Destiny and function like the US afterward, then heroic tankies like you will disappear since there won't be any clout to mine.

>>160916
Bruh, America isn’t the only country that supports Israel.
Israel isn’t even an American colony anyway.

>>160914
>You’re not acting any different from any other user
Every user eventually says negative things about you specifically because you are completely insufferable.

>>160916
>Blah blah blah, just a bunch of Amerishart settler copes.
T. zionist attempting to deflect

>Israel is simply an American colony for American Imperialism in the Middle East.
If this was entirely true, then non-Jewish Americans would also be able to move there, but it isn't really true. Not entirely.

"Israel" is an explicitly Jewish supremacist colony based around Jewish, not U.S., supremacy. The roots of zionism and the zionist colonial project go back to the 1800s, and were encouraged within American Protestant churches in the 20th century by people like Samuel Untermyer even before the U.S. ever picked up patronage of the zionist entity from the British.

I fully agree that Americans have a duty to sever this patronage entirely and stop U.S. state participation in these crimes. Average Americans also agree that what's being done by the "israelis" is wrong, but most simply do not understand what is required to stop U.S. state support for these crimes, and a massive media infrastructure (unironically controlled and staffed by agents of the American and zionist military corporate states as well as a disturbing amount of committed ideological zionists, including weird religious converts like Tony Dakoupil) obfuscates the fact that there is no electoral path out of this situation.

In stark contrast, the average "israeli" supports, and participates in, "israeli" crimes, and wants "israel" to commit even more of them.

>>160919
The worst thing the American state is doing right now is supporting the zionists' genocide, so no, actually.

It's the same. Which makes any kind of deflection onto other issues incredibly suspicious.

>>160920
>then non-Jewish Americans would also be able to move there
specifically on so-called "birth right."

>>160920
>Every user eventually says negative things about you specifically because you are completely insufferable.

And they’re insufferable as well with their constant complaints about “tfw no gf” and alleged trends about “looksmaxxing” or some nobody political streamer blabbing lib stuff.

>>160920
>T. zionist attempting to deflect
Nah, I'm against settler colonialism both in Israel and in the US. You're a Zionist just by another name, you think because your Slav great grandpa came in the 1800's to take the land that the US Army committed genocide to get that makes you different from an Israeli.

>>160928
>a murderer doing murder right now and a descendent of a murderer from hundreds of years ago are the same
Again, there is no way to read this as anything other than a disingenuous tactic to deflect from crimes that zionism and the U.S. state are doing right now by attempting to shift a discussion about culpability for crimes done today towards a metaphysical abstract vibes-based argument about original sin.

>>160930
Not an argument.
Stop murdering children.

>>160931
>Occupies land seized by murdering children.
>Descendants of said children continue to be ravaged by poverty because of said land seizure
>It's fine because there's a statue of limitations set by him
Thank you for keeping the savages straight, we couldn't keep this territory without you
Love
Uncle Sam

>>160931
They'll stop murdering children when they get the land. Don't worry the children will all be put into Indian Schools schools just like in the US.
See, you and Zionists aren't so different.

>>160932
Again, not an argument.
"Israel" today is like if membership in the Nazi party had been completely voluntary and 98% of German adults still joined and knowingly supported and paricipated in the Holocaust.

>>160933
You and Hitler both breathed air, checkmate Hitlerite

>>160934
Relax settler, once Israel annexes land and ethnically cleanses the area we'll give the territory to new settlers that had nothing to do with it that way they can claim moral authority to the land just like US citizens like you can.
After a fee decades pass, it will be like it never happened, just like you are now on the territory you occupy

>>160935
>we'll
Least surprising twist ever.
If I ever see you pulling this slimy "original sin" faggotry in person I will hang you from a post, zionist.

>>160936
Ummm have you been to a reservation lately? Do you see how they live? Why is that anon, could it be because of something called historic materialism? Nopw, couldn't be that because that hurts your feelings. Haha you tankies are such little pussies.

Why isn't this in /leftypol/? Why do you keep putting interesting political discussions on /b/ where nobody is looking anon?

>living descendants of past criminals should atone for things they had no involvement in
It's amazing to me how often and for how long this myopic mind virus has been afflicting people. I like to bring this kind of incredibly fallacious judgmental thinking to its logical conclusions by pointing out that after hundreds of generations of humanity it's all but guaranteed that we all have the product of rape in our ancestry. Shouldn't we all just kill ourselves to atone for this despicable crime?

>>160917
Yeah it's a bri'ish colony and north america is also largely run by them

>>160942
>after hundreds of generations of humanity it's all but guaranteed that we all have the product of rape in our ancestry. Shouldn't we all just kill ourselves to atone for this despicable crime?
Maybe we should… It's the only way to make it right. We are tainted.

The idea that every worker in a country is collectively guilty or morally responsible for the actions of their ruling class completely rejects class struggle and material reality. Please read a book.

>>161313
>The idea that every worker in a country is collectively guilty or morally responsible for the actions of their ruling class
What if you voluntarily moved to the settler state as a settler?

>>161314
>Mentally jacking off with moralist hypotheticals over scientific socialism
Socialists have absolutely no interest in restoring the borders of past empires or validating "historical right" to soil. Also capital is coercive, a decision like that isn't made in a vacuum.

>>161330
Yikes… Pro-Israel much?

>>161330
Also nice sage downvote to hide your post

>>161336
>>161337
This board is very reddit

>>161313
>>161330
gigatruke

>>161344
Gigaretarded.

>>161377
Nope.

Only Israeli children can be kinda innocent, but it doesn't matter since their parents still have made the choice to make them Israeli meatshields.

Only Palestinian children can be kinda innocent, but it doesn't matter since their parents still have made the choice to make them Palestinian meatshields.

>>161345
>>161378
do you consneethe

>>161381
It's funny because this implies that not even israeli children are innocent. based.

>>160874
>If you hit someone with your car and maim them because you weren't paying attention and ran a red light, it's still your fault regardless of intent. So I think just because of this everyone that has gotten up in the morning and went to work for the occupation regime known as Israel should at some point be held accountable.

An individual driving a car has direct personal control over that vehicle. A worker inside a capitalist nation-state has no individual control over the state's military apparatus, political leadership, or strategic decisions. Your analogy treats the whole population as a single driver, effectively wiping out the distinction between the capitalist class who owns and rules, the state officials who order military action, and the millions of workers who simply live and work under that system.

>>161399
Why are they working for a system they know does bad shit?

>>161400
>Why are they working for a system they know does bad shit?

The system is global and they need to eat.You can apply this logic to ANYONE in the world that has to sell their labor to live because capital has no borders. But even if we ignore that, should millions of Jews and non Jews in Israel that sell their labor to live just be forced elsewhere because some of abstract purity test? Minerals like cobalt, coltan, gold, and copper mined across central and southern Africa are essential raw materials for global supply chains. They power advanced electronics, telecommunications, aerospace technologies, and modern military hardware used by imperialist states worldwide. If a worker's moral standing is dictated by the ultimate end-use of what their labor produces, then a cobalt miner in the Democratic Republic of the Congo would be held "responsible" for fueling military-industrial complexes and high-tech warfare across the globe.

>>161402
>You can apply this logic to ANYONE in the world that has to sell their labor to live because capital has no borders
Yes, and? I am applying it to everyone, starting with Israelis. If you live and work under capitalism, and you know your labor funds bad shit, if you're not also organizing against your government you are complicit.

The situation with the Congolese mining minerals seems more like slavery than wagery, I'm not super familiar with the conditions there but if you literally don't have a choice and have no way to struggle against the system then you're off the hook since you have no say in the matter.

What I am saying is this: Israelis should leave Israel, and everyone else living under capitalism MUST organize.

If for example, Iran carpet bombs Israel and kills everyone there, I won't sit there and cry about collateral damage. And if the situation gets to a point where somehow china or russia feels existentially threatened by the US regime and nukes everyone in the united states, I think the people there have had ample time and knowledge to overthrow their government. So yes, at this point in time they are, through inaction, letting these atrocities happen.

>>161415
>Yes, and? I am applying it to everyone, starting with Israelis. If you live and work under capitalism, and you know your labor funds bad shit, if you're not also organizing against your government you are complicit.

How are they complicit when all labor is coerced? They're not the ones deciding to do the "bad shit" Are they making conscious decisions to the "bad shit", yes or no? A revolution is not a personal choice.

>The situation with the Congolese mining minerals seems more like slavery than wagery, I'm not super familiar with the conditions there but if you literally don't have a choice and have no way to struggle against the system then you're off the hook since you have no say in the matter.

It's hyper-exploited wage labor but the point is the labor is coerced.

>What I am saying is this: Israelis should leave Israel, and everyone else living under capitalism MUST organize.

Why must Israelis leave Israel? Where do they go?

"Whoever does not recognise and champion the equality of nations and languages, and does not fight against all national oppression or inequality, is not a Marxist; he is not even a democrat. That is beyond doubt. But it is also beyond doubt that the pseudo-Marxist who heaps abuse upon a Marxist of another nation for being an “assimilator” is simply a nationalist philistine."

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/crnq/3.htm

>If for example, Iran carpet bombs Israel and kills everyone there, I won't sit there and cry about collateral damage. And if the situation gets to a point where somehow china or russia feels existentially threatened by the US regime and nukes everyone in the united states, I think the people there have had ample time and knowledge to overthrow their government. So yes, at this point in time they are, through inaction, letting these atrocities happen.

Alright man let's just ignore the objective and subjective conditions

"The working class hasn't overthrown the state on my timeline, so they are guilty, complicit, and deserve whatever bombs fall on them."

"The Japanese civilians supported their Emperor's war machine, so nuking them was justified."

"If Palestinians in Gaza haven't overthrown Hamas, they are complicit through inaction, so the IDF carpet-bombing them is just 'collateral damage' and their own fault."

See how ridiculous this sounds?

>>161420
>Why must Israelis leave Israel? Where do they go?
A huge number of them have citizenships in the US and Europe, or are from the US and Europe originally - so the US and Europe.

Also the quote you cherrypick, seemingly to try to obfuscate this fact, doesn't support your case. What a strange thing to do, hanging around a small leftist site which opposes zionist crimes cherrypicking quotes to market test on them. There is no meaningful Marxist movement in "israel," and it is still openly a colonial supremacist project to the bulk of the zionists who live there, and it is still converting and importing Russians, Ukrainians, and Peruvians to this day to fulfill its colonial expansionist aims.

>If Palestinians in Gaza haven't overthrown Hamas
Hamas is a national resistance movement. Demanding that anyone overthrow it is tantamount to demanding that the Poles in Warsaw overthrow the leaders of their own uprisings during the Nazi occupation.

"Israel" is the Nazi occupation. Virtually every Jewish adult in "israel," with the only significant exception block being the Haredim, is a proud member of either today's Wehrmacht or SS. "Israeli" Jews overwhelmingly support the genocide, and overwhelmingly supported the illegal occupation and siege of Gaza and the West Bank which had occurred for over a decade continuously prior to 2023. To be a zionist is to be a proud and enthusiastic nazi who is, today, entitled to steal the land of the untermensch and murder the untermensch if they try to stop you.

Of course, you already know this stuff, which is why you come here to try to workshop ways to try to deflect from it.

>>161422
>A huge number of them have citizenships in the US and Europe, or are from the US and Europe originally - so the US and Europe.

Show me the numbers, and I'll concede. Tell me why they should all leave without moralist posturing.
https://www.gov.il/en/pages/israel-at-78-a-statistical-glimpse-20-apr-2026?

https://thedispatch.com/article/journalist-makes-misleading-claim-about-israelis-and-dual-citizenship

>Also the quote you cherrypick, seemingly to try to obfuscate this fact, doesn't support your case. What a strange thing to do, hanging around a small leftist site which opposes zionist crimes cherrypicking quotes to market test on them. There is no meaningful Marxist movement in "israel," and it is still openly a colonial supremacist project to the bulk of the zionists who live there, and it is still converting and importing Russians, Ukrainians, and Peruvians to this day to fulfill its colonial expansionist aims.

"Capitalism’s broad and rapid development… is breaking down national barriers, destroying national single-ness, assimilating nations… The proletariat, however, far from endorsing every national development, supports everything that helps to obliterate national distinctions and remove national barriers… To advocate the assimilation of workers of different nations is the duty of the Marxist."

>Hamas is a national resistance movement. Demanding that anyone overthrow it is tantamount to demanding that the Poles in Warsaw overthrow the leaders of their own uprisings during the Nazi occupation.
The Polish underground (such as the Home Army and the Jewish Fighting Organization / ŻOB) was composed of anti-fascists, secular nationalists, socialists, and communists (like the Jewish Labor Bund) fighting against total physical extermination by a fascist state machine. They did not run a bourgeois state apparatus, did not impose religious fundamentalism on their own population, and did not brutalize local trade unionists.
Hamas is an anti-working-class, right-wing clerical-nationalist organization that emerged directly from the Muslim Brotherhood. It is a political and military authority that ruled Gaza as a state-like government for nearly two decades, using its power to enforce regressive social policies, manage capitalist property, and police the local population.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/21/hamas-violently-suppresses-gaza-economic-israeli-border-protests?

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/03/20/another-brutal-crackdown-hamas-gaza?

>>161433
>cites the "israeli" government, which doesn't publish these numbers, and zionist Dispatch owner Jonah Goldberg
In case anybody was still wondering if this was a zionist.

For anyone else who is curious, the closest thing offhand to a number published by the "israeli" government itself was a 2006 study which found that at least 10% of "israeli" citizens don't actually live in "israel" at all. By inference, the total number of dual citizens would be considerably higher than the minimum estimated total number of "israeli" citizens who don't even live there.

>responds to criticism of cherrypicking a quote by cherrypicking a quote
Marx was a supporter of the Fenian movement. The USSR didn't respect the supposed dominion of the German Nazis over all of Europe. You, at the very least, are aware of this second fact, and of the USSR's turn against zionist colonialism, but you can't acknowledge any of these things because you are not a Marxist; you are not a Marxist, or a leftist, or a member of the socialist, anarchist, or workers' movement, you are a zionist.

>The Polish underground (such as the Home Army and the Jewish Fighting Organization / ŻOB) was composed of anti-fascists, secular nationalists
>They did not run a bourgeois state apparatus,
Those in the audience can observe the obvious contradiction here. The idea that the "secular nationalist" faction of the Polish resistance did not "run a bourgeois state apparatus" and that this is some contrast with Palestine is fucking nonsense - the only "bourgeois state apparatus" in Palestine are the collaborators in the PA. The only reason why Poland's "secular nationalist" and anti-fascist resistance factions were not running a "bourgeois state apparatus" was because they were under German Nazi occupation at the time, which is the same condition Palestine lives under in relation to zionist occupation. It is an established fact of international law and reality on the ground that Palestine has been under illegal military occupation by the IOF for decades.

The most active revolutionary communist group in the world today is called the PFLP, and they're in Palestine fighting the IOF side by side with Hamas, PIJ, and DFLP.

Attempts to accuse resistance groups of brutality or repression are tired, old slanders which go back to the South African Apartheid government, a staunch ally of zionism, trying to use the ANC's harsh treatment of suspected saboteurs and informants to slander opposition to apartheid as brutal or primitive.

The Polish resistance and French resistance, during WWII, both treated suspected Nazi collaborators very mercilessly, and they did so out of necessity because they were occupied lands. The ANC did this as well, famously suspected informants in tires, which was caught on film and used by the apartheid government for exactly the same kind of disingenuous propaganda which hasbarist vermin use against the resistance to zionism today.

The problem in Palestine is a decades-long occupation which steals their land, murders them, abducts them en masse, rapes them, treats them as subhuman, and has surrounded Gaza in walls, barbed wire, and guard towers which have, for decades, enabled the zionist occupier to control everything that gets in or out of Gaza's borders, with assistance from corrupt Egyptian collaborator governments, fully paid for by the US and Europe.

>>161420
Okay you are a Zionist asking disingenuous questions, I'm not responding to you. >>161422 did a good job and that's more than you deserve.

>>161436
This is actually an epic rebuttal

retarded children think history works like a courtroom

>>161455
Not an argument + don't care + nobody asked.