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File: 1608528392032.jpg ( 135.88 KB , 540x720 , 9Bsac.jpg )

 No.765

Do anarchists still exist? It seems like every time I talk to someone who claims to be anarchist online they turn out to be a Marxist who is just too ashamed of tankies to call themselves a Marxist. Do actual anarchists still exist?
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 No.766

all anarchists are and always have been either radlibs or closeted libertarian marxists. the former more often than not
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 No.767

File: 1608528392147.png ( 107.6 KB , 1555x1160 , ok tankie.png )

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 No.768

There are plenty still, you just have to know where to search. On this board most here call themselves anarchist first and then communist I'd say. But I don't say many anarchists as it used too, maybe they are just very well hidden here don't know. If you want to see serious and real anarchists you can use Facebook(yeah not being ironic here) and Raddle. Twitter anarchists are just pure memes I don't even need to say this.
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 No.770

woah i've never seen something from /dead/ on the overboard before. hope y'all have a good day
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 No.771

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>>767
that spacing is bothersome
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 No.772

>>771
thanks
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 No.773

>>765
I'm an Anarchist, a Post Left Anarchist.
Anarchism and Marxism are diametrically opposed worldviews and come from different backgrounds that are opposed entirely.
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 No.774

File: 1608528392613.jpg ( 125.82 KB , 753x500 , yeahIamananarchist.jpg )

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 No.775

File: 1608528392700.png ( 558.58 KB , 522x906 , f0d39dd5f2029ba869412e3290….png )

>>774
Chiaki is best girl
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 No.776

File: 1608528392828.jpeg ( 376.32 KB , 771x1024 , deadhead.jpeg )

Anarchism predates Marxism, but Marx's critiques were originally a radical extension, expansion, and application of early anarchist theory, which only later metamorphosed among some ideologues into being contemptibly authoritarian. (Marx's middle works and language unfortunately contributed to this, though he seemed to clearly shift toward more libertarian and anarchistic framing in his final years, whose continuity can be found in his early writings on communism, such as in The German Ideology.) Bakunin himself was effectively a Marxist, or at least Marxian, and used Marxian theory throughout his works, even after being expelled from the First Internationale. Anarchists after him largely took after him in this regard, sharing his contempt for Marxist anti-anarchism and authoritarian tendencies whilst not abandoning Marxian critique altogether, and this only began to change once Kropotkin critiqued Marx's theories and proposed some theoretical and historiographical modifications to it. Even so, Kropotkin agreed with Marx on a number of issues and where he disagreed often tended to resemble a superficial understanding of Marx or conflation of Marxian theory with Marxist ideology.

Eventually, as both anarchism and Marxism massified beyond the confines of intellectual discourses, they both transformed these theoretical and methodological conflicts into identitarian ones, vulgarising what was previously an anarchist tradition that effectively functioned as a heterodox and revisionist protoform of libertarian Marxism / left-communism. (The only remaining holdouts from this at this point were mutualists and others subscribed to pre-Marxian anarchist ideas, i.e. so-called "utopian socialists".) Hitherto, tankies whinge about anarchists all being anarkiddies (a charge I despised, though these days I struggle to disagree) as anarchists whinge about all Marxists being tankies (which I also despised, though it seems to be the case as well, especially within shitholes like this site) and nothing is accomplished except rehearsals in cross-purposes.

So yes, anarchists – as in ideological, dogmatic anti-Marxian anarchists – still exist and they do by the millions. The sooner they die off, the better. This is coming from someone who has identified as an anarchist for years, who never fundamentally saw a theoretical conflict between leftcom and ancom (much to the chagrin of everyone else) and who considered the seething hatred anarchists and Marxists reciprocated to be little more than the ideological equivalent of a race war. And I am indeed anti-Marxist myself, just as I am anti-anarchist and against every "-ist", but I am not anti-Marxian and frankly find those who are to be almost as hopelessly lost as tankies themselves. (They, at least, can be persuaded and are inclined to killing their idols, though; the same can never be said of tankies.)

>>773
At that level of simplification, no they are not. I don't know what type of "Post Left Anarchist" you are, but post-left anarchy is generally understood to be significantly influenced by a variety of Marxist/-ian tendencies and schools, including Lettrism, Situationism, autonomism, left-communism, communisation, and the Frankfurt School. Significant influences on many post-lefts include Marx, Engels, Bakunin, Vaneigem, Debord, Adorno, Marcuse, Deleuze, Guattari, Dauvé, Žižek, Wolff, Fisher, and Land, all of whom were or are Marxists or otherwise majorly influenced by Marx and Marxian perspectives.

Usually, it is stupid theorylet anarkiddies who have an allergy to anything Marx and treat everything derived from (or associated with) his theoretical framework to be inevitably authoritarian apologetics with no liberatory potential. Their antipathy is dogmatic and ideological, representing the anarchist perspective at its worst and most illiterate. One of the refreshing parts of post-left discourses is precisely the fact that post-lefties (such as myself) use Marxian theory and critique alongside numerous other frameworks to interpret and change the world. In that sense, just as post-leftism restores leftism and anarchism to their authentic origins, so too does it heal the debilitating scar left by the schism between blacks and reds that has been festering ever since Bakunin's expulsion in the First Internationale. What this means, in practical and non-ideological terms, is that post-lefties are not bound by anarchist dogmata such as anti-Marxian theory and its associated anti-intellectual and anti-theoretical dispositions; just as they are not bound by Marxist dogmata about authoritarian interpretations of socialism, communism, the dictatorship of the proletariat, and so on.

If you still cling to these dogmata, and cannot articulate a non-ideological opposition to everything Marxian which convincingly throws it out with the bathwater, then I seriously wonder the extent to which you are "post-left" and what precisely you mean by that.
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 No.778

>>776
Why do you assume that everyone but you conflates Marxian theory with Marxist ideology?
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 No.784

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>>778
Because that is overwhelmingly what I have experienced and observed in any discussion involving Marxism, Marxian theory, and especially any non-Marxists (anarchists, liberals, etc.). Generally, distinctions are not made between descriptive and prescriptive applications of a term and little thought is given to possibility that theory and praxis can conflict with (rather than complement) ideology. For most of those I have encountered, especially those unfamiliar with the critiques of ideology found among post-lefties (which is virtually everyone), Marxist ideology is identical to Marxian theory. This is not a matter of orthodoxy, either; even heterodox Marxist/-ian perspectives are subsumed within this logic. The only apparent exceptions I can find to this logic are implicit in the language used by certain economists and philosophers, such as distinguishing Marxian economics from Orthodox Marxism.

It is from this conflation of theory and ideology that we encounter the all-too-typical behaviour of anarchists being resilient to anything resembling Marxian framing (lest it be Marxist), the mainstream conspiracy theories of "cultural Marxism" being ubiquitous among academics in the humanities and social sciences (since Marxian=Marxoid=Marxist and any application of Marxist historiography or sociology is proof of Marxist ideology), and Marxists probing the purity of the latter through ideological tests whilst aspersing the anarchism of the former for being insufficiently allergic to everything Marxian. These social features are only possible through the identification of theory with ideology, without which more nuanced interpretations would prevail. This is not helped by the fact that the general understanding of ideology in contemporary discourses is itself treated as descriptive, despite the fact that prescriptive connotations to the term persist in derivations such as "ideologue" and "ideologist".

If you distinguish between Marxist, Marxian, and Marxoid; and you generally recognize meaningful differences between -ists, -ians, and -oids in the relevant discourses; then it is curious to me why you find it so remarkably presumptuous that I suggest such nuance to be uncommon, for you ought to have your fair share of similar experiences and observations confirming that fact. Such subtlety is often missing in discourses on these subjects and many others, even among those who purport to be philosophically inclined, so much so that I have been accused of quibbling over distinctions without differences. As far as I am concerned, the framework I use here is heterodox if not altogether idiosyncratic. If you share my view, then you are among a vanishing few who do.
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 No.786

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>>784
Maybe its just an exception, but Debord seems to be pretty popular among anarchists in general and SotS is pretty deep in the "Marxian framing".
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 No.789

>>765
There are many anarchists (ancoms and ansynds) even on leftypol. Seriously.
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 No.790

>>776
Ok, Marxist.
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 No.792

>>790
He is an nihilist I assume
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 No.920

>>789
Maybe, but they dont speak out too much recently. After /anarchist/ general died and CHOP happened, I noticed a large anti-anarchist move on /leftypol/ and nobody there seems to mind. What I find ironic tho, is when some Anarchist pokes at MLs, MLs immediately complain about sectarianism LMAO

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