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File: 1608528398208.png ( 95.48 KB , 217x301 , theoryfiction.png )

 No.858

The Marxist analysis of Capitalism and post-Capitalism is fairly straightforward in its understanding of why Capitalism will not last.

The productive forces of Capitalism will be developed, until a certain point where Capitalism will come to inhibit their further growth. At this point, the proletariat must rise up and destroy the Capitalist mode of production to free the forces of production imprisoned within them.

What Marx does, is essentially agree with the "mission" of Capital, the growth of productive forces, but does not think Capitalism will be able to complete this mission due to its internal contradictions.

This is where the problem of Marxism comes in. Marx does not understand, as later thinkers who developed upon his ideas, Jaques Camatte and Nick Land, that the mission of Capital, the growth of productive forces, schizophrenic revolutionizing of society, etc, this is the problem humanity has with Capital, because these goals are on a fundamental level, anti-human. They are the goals of the market God, in its "progressive" quest to mechanize human life down to the second, not the goals of humanity. Post-Capitalism, or rather Capitalism that has broken through the wall of its own contradiction in order to further presue its mission, will not be for humans. It will be a continuation of the mission of Capital, and that missions end is the complete domestication and annihilation of the human race. Nick Land and Camatte made this very clear.

Marx attempts to divorce Capitalism and its technology, not realizing that Capitalism itself, the blind idiot god, is the most important part of this technology. No consciously organized system of humans can match the speed, versatility and growth of the dispersed dead brain of Capital itself.

The growth in productive forces do not exist for the benefit of humanity. They exist for the benefit of Capital. Capital itself is the motor of technological change and modernity. Nothing can replace it.

We do not want "Post-Capitalism". A post-Capitalism that contains the drive for progress of Capitalism will not be liberation. It will be the death of the human species and the planet earth. Industrial society, and Capital's mission of its expansion into all aspects of the human life and subjectivity, itself requires repression. We cannot progress "past" Capitalism, because progress is merely a measure of how completely Capital has subordinated the human community to its cold will.

Communism is nothing if not REACTIONARY.

What we struggle for is not to complete Capital’s mission when Capitalism cannot, not to "progress" further down Capital's road, but to throw out the whole thing. Understand that it would mean our annihilation, and take back the wheel of society as humans, consciously organizing production according to our will instead of the impersonal whims of the market God.

We should accept that this sort of “Communism”, not Post-Capitalism but human self determination, will not nearly measure up to Capitalism if measured by Capital’s metrics. It will doubtlessly not be as wildly innovative, nor as productive and will not “revolutionize” society constantly as Capital does. There is no other motor for this kind of “progress” but Capitalism, and this dynamistic acceleration exists for Capital’s benefit, not ours. The only characteristic that I can say for certain about this “Communism” is that it will be a process that is not ruled by the market, but rather by some form of conscious human will directed towards some sort of conscious human need. Either that, or it would mean the end of "society" as a whole.
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 No.859

Class struggle, in this view, is essentially meaningless. The proletariat, when organized as a proletariat, rebels against its twin, the bourgeois, due to its unfavorable material conditions. These are always reformist struggles and are aimed at integrating the proletariat into the process of Capital by giving them a larger share in its profits, either through social democratic reforms, collective ownership, etc. The goal of the proletarian struggle is to annihilate the proletarian struggle. Nothing more. The proletariat is not the revolutionary subject.

The only revolt is the revolt of humanity, alienated from its Gemeinwesen, against the blind idiot god of Capital itself.
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 No.860

Nick Land didn't "understand" anything because he's retarded. Never listen to Anglos. They're stupidity is really staggering
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 No.861

>>860
he was brilliant, he became stupid
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 No.862

>>860
Actually read him. Not the modern NRx stuff where he somewhere warped his brains into thinking that BLM was stopping the techno-capital singularity, the old stuff where he really got it.
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 No.863

MODS, don't delete this. Move it to /edu/ or /dead/ if you not like Nick Land in your /leftypol/ front page.
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 No.864

>>863
What?
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 No.865

>>863
Mods won't like this thread
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 No.866

>>865
Why not?
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 No.867

>>858
>Marx attempts to divorce Capitalism and its technology
You're talking about divorcing capitalism from humanity though. The source of value is labor, without people capital ceases to be capital.

>No consciously organized system of humans can match the speed, versatility and growth of the dispersed dead brain of Capital itself.

Cockshott has shown the superiority of socialist planning, and even illustrated instances where the feudal mode of production was more efficient(not productive because of the tech disparity of course) than capitalism.

>Communism is nothing if not REACTIONARY.

In the sense of a reaction against capital, then yes.

>The only characteristic that I can say for certain about this “Communism” is that it will be a process that is not ruled by the market, but rather by some form of conscious human will directed towards some sort of conscious human need.

well yeah democracy of the economy, that was part of the idea since day 1. What's the surprise here?
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 No.868

How did he transition from Racism and imperialism is a male trait to ANTEEEFA IS THE ESTABLISHMENT YAS DADDY TRUMP
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 No.869

>>866
Particularly this part
>Communism is nothing if not REACTIONARY
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 No.870

>>858
>It will doubtlessly not be as wildly innovative
lmao! you need to visit this thread
>>652339
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 No.871

>>867
Divorce Capitalism from humanity? What? Capital is inhuman. Its anthropomorphism is an asepct of underdevelopment, not a permanent feature. Its goal has been the complete domestication of humanity, in that it wishes to integrate humanity into itself, make consumers merely a medium through which it can send market signals to itself, make workers an aspect of constant Capital with stretchable labor power, etc.

>Cockshott has shown the superiority of socialist planning,


Cybersocialist fantasies always work out well on paper. But a scientific solution is always a Capitalist one, as Camatte showed.


>In the sense of a reaction against capital, then yes.


In the sense that it is against progress. It is not going further down the path of history, it is anti-history, because the process of history is that of complete subordination of the human subject to Capital.
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 No.872

>>870
Keep coping. There is no other motor for Schizophrenic modernity than Capitalism. Top down planning has never worked and can never compete with the market in its god like glory.
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 No.873

The oil industry is no more than an industrial death cult organized around what certain kurdish religious cults call “the black corpse of the sun”: oil.

Oil is the return of the repressed, using humanity, using the capitalist economy, as a parasite uses its host, to get free from the earth and to exert power within the atmosphere, to hasten the “tellurian omega” (when the earth is finally consumed within a dying, expanding sun). To hasten the warming of the earth to make the earth a bit more like the sun, and to move the earth beyond this chapter of its history — the anthropocene — via the extinction of its host-animals.

All terrestrial existence, including human, and particularly, American culture, is a relay of primal cosmic trauma. If you radicalize Freud's equation of trauma with what is most enigmatic and problematic in existence, you generalizes its restricted biocentric model as outlined in Beyond the Pleasure Principle to encompass the inorganic domain, singling out the accretion of the earth 4.5 billion years ago - the retraction of its molten outer surface and its subsequent segregation into a burning iron core (Cthelll) - as the aboriginal trauma whose scars are inscribed, encrypted, throughout terrestrial matter, instituting a register of unconscious pain coextensive with the domain of stratified material as such.

Geotraumatics radicalizes Deleuze-Guattari's insistence that schizoanalysis should extend further than the terrain of personal or familial drama, to invest the social and political realms, and pushes beyond history and biology to incorporate the geological and the cosmological within the purview of the transcendental unconscious, lumbar back pain is an expression of geocosmic trauma, and so is American culture, the root source of the disturbance which the organism identifies according to its parochial frame of reference - mummy-daddy - or which it construes in terms of the threat of individual death, is a more profound trauma rooted in physical reality itself, a generalized alienation endemic to the stratification of matter as such. Repression extends 'all the way down' to the cells of the body, the rocks of the earth, inhering in organized structure as such.

All things, not just the living, yearn for escape and for blood; all things seek release from their organization, which however induces further labyrinthine complications, Nothing short of the complete liquidation of biological order and the dissolution of physical structure can suffice to discharge the aboriginal trauma that mars terrestrial existence.
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 No.874

>>873
You're just stitching together Landian copypastas now.
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 No.875

>>872
No amount of evidence of capitalism's gross inefficiency will ever convince you, huh? You've just decided a priori that capitalism is this miraculously efficient and innovative system. Many such cases. You're not the first person I've encountered who has this problem, and from my experience there is not much I can do to fix you.
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 No.876

>>875
"Capitalism's" gross inefficiency's are irrelevant. I don't give a shit about how quickly and efficiently Capitalism can mechanize and kill the human race. I want to stop it from doing that. Any "Post-Capitalism" that continues Capital's mission is just an evolution of the predator, a more "efficient" domestication God.
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 No.877

File: 1608528399327.mp4 ( 6.14 MB , 1280x720 , My Stuff.mp4 )

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 No.878

>>876
Communism is a conscious use of human productive power. It's not destructive of man or the earth, as long as man's goals are not destructive. It depends on man
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 No.879

>>878
I agree. What I am saying is that if Capitalism limits the development of productive forces, and post-Capitalism is its release, (which is what Marx says) then post-Capitalism will not be Communism. It will merely be Capitalism with the way cleared for Capital's further advancement.

Communism is an end to the schizophrenic motor of change and it is reactionary, not progressive. Not aiming to liberate the means of production, but to imprison then, so their development will not consume humanity.
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 No.880

>>871
>Its anthropomorphism is an asepct of underdevelopment, not a permanent feature.
It's a big assertion with 0 evidence. Capitalism has been breaking down for a while now, so it's even less believable that will become an ungrounded spirit.

>But a scientific solution is always a Capitalist one, as Camatte showed.

If it's true you should be able to say how. I can just as easily reference Althusser's belief that science was capitalism weakness.

>it is anti-history, because the process of history is that of complete subordination of the human subject to Capital.

This is either wrong or trivially true depending on your definition of 'capital'. If we're universalizing the law of value so that its a process of humans subjecting themselves to work, then I'm inclined to agree. But the twist here is that 'work' is always already just humanity anyway. It's inhuman in a vague sense of being virtual in comparison to the real human-as-animal. But it's saying the same as marx about abolishing the alienation of labor. Labor becoming directly social.

If you mean money, or value-form, then that's wrong. I would say in your framing that the value-form of capital, money(whether physical or digital) is what gets in the way of capital the 'spirit'. That's why it eventually has to become supplanted by direct domination, either by oligarchs(as we see happen increasingly today, the chinese model) or by the people all together(the cockshott plan).
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 No.881

>>872
>Top down planning has never worked and can never compete with the market in its god like glory.
This is your brain on landian idealism
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 No.882

>>879
"release" meaning its liberation from the profit motive. Labor becomes the intrinsic possession of man again, not something he prostitutes for profit. Man, I'm telling you with your best interest at heart, I have seen this happen many times, this Land stuff has warped your thinking until it doesn't resemble reality anymore. This is an intellectual fad with no substance. Get your head fixed
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 No.883

>>881
Its just a fact. Look at history. The development of the market does not tend towards Communism, it tends towards the complete subordination of humanity. Once your acknowledge that, you realize that with a historical materialist analysis, Communism is not in the cards. It is not progressive, it is reactionary. It is fighting against the forward motion of history.
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 No.884

>>879
This is why we need to research artificial general intelligence safety. Communism is basically aligning capital's fitness function with humanity's fitness function. This is incredibly complex but AGI research is a start.
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 No.885

>>883
You don't understand how Marxist dialectic works. It's not about where history TENDS to but where the TENSIONS are. The tension is between classes. The tendency of capitalism is toward subjection of man, yeah, and this produces a TENSION between the owners and the workers. If the workers become class conscious and organized they can topple the bourgeois order. Instead of wasting your time with intellectual fads, why don't you read some basic Marxist texts. Land is just a fad with no substance
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 No.886

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 No.887

>>862
Can you recommend something of his earlier works. Pls no fanged noumena meme
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 No.888

>>886
Look, I'm trying to help you here. Fix your brain. Get rid of these fad concepts, and read something substantive
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 No.889

Why is Land getting shilled here lately? I haven't seen regular Nick Land threads for years, not since old leftypol. Did some youtuber make a video on him or something?
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 No.890

>>872
https://gowans.blog/2012/12/21/do-publicly-owned-planned-economies-work/

The superior system

"With few exceptions, what passes for serious discussion of the USSR is shot through with prejudice, distortion, and misconception. Locked in battle with the Soviet Union for decades, Washington deliberately fostered misunderstandings of its ideological foe. The aim was to make the USSR appear bleak, brutal, repressive, economically sluggish and inefficient—not the kind of place anyone of sound mind would want to emulate or live in. Today, scholars, journalists, politicians, state officials, and even some communists repeat old Cold War propaganda. The Soviet economy, in their view, never worked particularly well. However, the truth of the matter is that it worked very well. It grew faster over the period it was publicly owned and planned than did the supposedly dynamic US economy, to say nothing of the economies of countries that were as undeveloped as the USSR was in 1928, when the Soviet economy was brought under public control. The Soviet economy was innovative enough to allow the USSR to beat the United States into space, despite the United States’ greater resources, an event that inspired the Americans to mimic the Soviet Union’s public support for R&D. Moreover, the Soviet system of public ownership and planning efficiently employed all its capital and human resources, rather than maintaining armies of unemployed workers and inefficiently running below capacity, as capitalist economies regularly do. Every year, from 1928 to 1989, except during the war years, the Soviet economy reliably expanded, providing jobs, shelter, and a wide array of low- and no-cost public services to all, while capitalist economies regularly sank into recession and had to continually struggle out of them on the wreckage of human lives.

The US National Intelligence Council warns ominously that a crisis-prone world economy could produce chaos and distress on an even greater scale than the last crisis (Shanker, 2012). Offering a “grim prognosis” on the world economy, the UN warns of “a new global recession that mires many countries in a cycle of austerity and unemployment for years” (Gladstone, 2012). Yet at the same time, we are told that the Soviet economy never worked, and that capitalism, with its regular crises, and failure to provide employment, food, clothing and shelter to all, is both the only game in town and the superior system. Clearly, it is neither superior—on the contrary, it is clearly inferior—nor it is the only choice. Not only can we do better, we have done better. It is time to tear down the wall of politically engineered misconceptions about public ownership and planning. For too long, the wall has kept us from seeing a viable alternative model to capitalism whose track record of unequalled success points to a realistic and possible future for the bottom 99 percent—a future free from unemployment, recessions, extremes of wealth and poverty, and where essential goods and services are available at no cost to all."

https://gowans.blog/2010/05/09/a-failed-systems-failed-promises/

"That Cuba, a poor country, has been able to guarantee the right to food, clothing, shelter, health care, education and jobs, despite trying economic circumstances and US hostility, can be seen as extraordinary, or simply what can be readily accomplished outside the strictures of capitalism. If a poor Third World country, harassed by a powerful neighbor, can deliver high quality health care and education for free, why can’t the world’s richest country do the same? The answer: Capitalism drives towards better profits, not better lives.

Ever since the US-dominated global economy has, with the collapse of Eastern Bloc Communism over 10 years ago, more boldly sought purchase everywhere, US military imperialism has run amok, wars of aggression have been started, and poor, and formerly communist, countries have become poorer. The leaders of the Western world declare capitalism to be the single sustainable model of success, but countries that rejected capitalism, and committed to egalitarianism, have done better in terms of guaranteeing economic and social rights than comparison countries, despite difficult circumstances. Meanwhile, those that have rejected egalitarianism in favor of a return to capitalism have regressed. The promises of peace and prosperity that attended Communism’s collapse were a fraud based in the self-interest of a narrow band of wealthy people in the world’s richest countries. That it is a fraud is richly evident in the failed promises and dismal record of the post-communist era. "
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 No.891

>>890
You will never convince him. He didn't decide that it's inefficient based on evidence. It's an a priori assumption. I've tried arguing with these types before, it just can't be done. It's a faith based conviction.
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 No.892

>>882
Land is just a schizophrenic mirror of Camatte, while Camatte identified the supposedly progressive force of the development of productive forces as the process of subsuming humanity, Land identified deleuzian deteritorialization, the liberatory forces of Capital as the displacement of humanity as a substrate of production.

They both understood that the inner thread of Capitalism, its technology and its deteritorialization are its substance, and that they are an in-human substance. Delueze identified that Capitalism would eventually inhibit deteritorialization and that deteritorialization needed to be free'd from Capitalism at this point. Which is exactly what MARX said about the productive forces. Deleuze and Marx as mirror images of the same basic concept, the liberatory soul of Capitalism must be freed from its exploitative accidental qualities. Deteritorialization must be let loose from Capitalism for Delueze, for Marx, the means of production must be freed from their imprisonment in Capitalism.

Land and Camatte realized one crucial thing, humanity is not involved in this transformation. Capital creates post-Capitalism in both equations, it breaks free of its previous form and rockets forward, its soul intact. And why would a post-Capital CREATED BY CAPITAL TO CONTINUE THE MISSION OF CAPITAL, ie its subsumption of humanity, be Communist? It will not. It will be the death and domestication of the human race.
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 No.893

>>888
Techno-Materialism over-rides class based materialism. The proletariat is not a revolutionary class like the bourgoise was, it does not represent a new technologically incompatible mode of production. Its cause for rebellion is its miserable conditions of life, not its fundamental incompatibility with the system of Capitalism. If there was a class that subsisted off of star-trek replicators, then maybe they would be revolutionary. But the proletariat is not the revolutionary subject, Capital itself is.
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 No.894

>>891
Fair enough
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 No.895

>>887
What else is there to read of Land but Fanged Noumena?
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 No.896

>>885
Dialectics are bullshit. Schizo-analysis works in diagrams and skips the ideas.
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 No.898

Man, fucking nobody is on /dead/.
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 No.899

>>890
If you measure it by what is good for humans, then yes, socialism is more efficient. Capitalism has its own goodness and its own measures.
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 No.900

>>898
I mean it's the secret board for a reason. I'll be monitoring this thread.
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 No.905

>>877
why am I watching advertisements on the anticapitalist board
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 No.1238

>>858
all i hear is talk about Marx but nothing about communism inherently. Marxism is shit, who would have guessed, doesn't stop me from being communist
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 No.1239

File: 1608528423803.jpg ( 34.89 KB , 634x414 , IMG_20191123_020741.jpg )

>>858
>the goals of humanity
nice spook idiot. you might want to read deleuze himself instead of third-rate secondary lit like nick land.
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 No.1241

>>858
yes yes yes yes yes yes yes, humanfags rise up
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 No.1242

>>893
i think the proletariat is revolutionary in the same sense that the bourgeoisie was - that is, it only revolutionizes within the system and perfects it further, but does nothign to destroy the old god. The proletariat might triumph over the bourgeoisie, and we could get something much more egalitarian in a way, but it would still function to better serve the capitalist goal of full commodification and deconstruction of everything. What we call capitalism is just the modern incarnation of Capital. Its fundamentally democratic feudalism, which was a more democratic or anarchic version of empire. The project of Capital is the most basic formula - release more energy to itself and use that to grow, in order to release more energy. So i see a continuity between modern day capitalism and the oldest slaver city states

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