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File: 1695058146282.jpg ( 129.67 KB , 1400x700 , 08hdsegf9ou8e9ew.jpg )

 No.11431

You know, looking back at the split cycles and looking back at how insane the jannies at org are currently what does chan think of the possibility that leftypol.org was the target of CIA/FBI infiltration / divide and conquer? I mean, look, we know the FBI intentionally will go after hacker forums like Raid Forums who are doing grey market shit, but, I don't think it's beyond rationality to think that a website as HUGE and influential as bunkerchan was during its heyday from being targeted by the Feds. In-fact, I would say it makes perfect sense.
Look at the current state of org and tell me it's not glowing brighter than the surface of the sun. I think it makes perfect sense that the FBI would want to get something like org under control and foreign agencies have already targeted us in the past.
So what do you think anons? Fact or fiction?
>>

 No.11432

Nope. Just tankies devolving into the same shit as always.
>>

 No.11433

>>11431
There are fissures in the left, and splits can happen organically, but it's certainly possible that there was glow-shit-fuckery going on to pry open one of those fissures.

Sectarian screeching like anon One1432 certainly isn't helping either.
>>

 No.11434

>>11432
Most of the leftychan founders were tankies. It was the ogre mods who were the socdems/anarchists.

>>11433
The split wasn't about political ideology. It was about whether leftypol should maintain chan culture, as well as the level of influence mods should have over how the site is run.
>>

 No.11435

>>11433
Is it really sectarianism to observe that this happens to literally every "ML" community? I mean, these people have gotten to the point of crying about space lasers and muh Daddy Trump. If they are infiltrated, it has certainly become self-sustaining.
>>

 No.11436

I think a lot of seemingly self-destructive behavior among left organizations is an ambiguous combination of both intentional undermining and attraction to the cause of well-meaning individuals with horrible personalities that should never be anywhere near power. That ambiguity is probably exactly one of the goals of spook agencies–keeping leftists paralyzed by fear at times because they're so paranoid about whom they can trust.

However, we shouldn't let this distract from the real lesson of previous failed web communities. The real lesson is this: the top-down manner in which web forums are traditionally administrated and controlled is naturally unaccountable and inherently presents a small point of failure that can destroy a community when a web owner/web admin/mod turns on their community and can't be removed and replaced. We need better structures that can empower the posters.
>>

 No.11437

>>11434
>The split wasn't about political ideology. It was about whether leftypol should maintain chan culture, as well as the level of influence mods should have over how the site is run.

Would you say that leftychan remained "politically incorrect", while org didn't ?

>>11435
>Is it really sectarianism
yes, spamming the T-slur is childish and mildly irritating.

>space lasers
I would say that the probability for that one is somewhat low because the technical challenges are significant, but it's intellectually dishonest to dismiss the possibility, after-all the US sends a lot of classified satellites into orbit.

>muh Daddy Trump
The legal proceedings against him are clearly politically motivated. That's a sign of a deteriorating society regardless who it affects.
>>

 No.11438

>>11431
I know that there was this feeling, being on the org team when we were together, that there is a group of people who actually always get their way, and everyone else who's frustrated by that. The way the team actually made decisions wasn't democratic, even down to how votes were being acted upon or not.

This is essentially what started the split: turbojanitor, comatoast left and zul was about to be kicked out.

I don't have any evidence of them being actual feds, but I also feel they act against things that potentially could have reached a wider audience and made a wider impact. I think someone else noted this too, that any thread that gets close to something actionable is removed.
>>

 No.11439

>>11437
>Would you say that leftychan remained "politically incorrect", while org didn't ?
Broadly speaking, yes.
>>

 No.11440

occam's razor

you don't need any fed infiltration for modocracy to destroy to destroy a chan

FUCK JANNIES! I HATE YOU!
>>

 No.11441

>>11437
>yes, spamming the T-slur
Lol, it's not a slur to describe tankies as tankies.
>I would say that the probability for that one is somewhat low because the technical challenges are significant, but it's intellectually dishonest to dismiss the possibility
No, not really. There is no evidence for it, and all said "evidence" shows a fundamental misunderstanding of basic physics.
>The legal proceedings against him are clearly politically motivated.
And yet are completely valid. Thanks for playing, tankie.
>>

 No.11442

>>11432
This
>>

 No.11443

fuck tankoids

"muh sectarians" zigger can suck on my balls

we've being sectarian not on some petty issues, but on a FUNDAMENTAL issues, that people could kill for
>>

 No.11444

File: 1695074967933.jpg ( 10.19 KB , 270x480 , frame0.jpg )

>>11443
>>11443
I would not go so far as to kill an online tankie, but the disagreement is fundamental. The main difference between .ogre and .net is the allowable variance in opinions. Ogre has devolved into an authoritarian shithole, and .net has not. This is why we get .ogre posters come here demanding that x or y be banned, and that such and such is a Nazi/CIA/etc. This is the typical playbook of spewing bullshit in the hope some of it sticks. It happens to everyone community these authoritarian "leftists"(Read: fascists) get their hands on. Ogre isn't some CIA ploy or anything like that. Those posters are pathetic idiots who have failed at everything in life. There is no threat to anyone from them. Pic related: typical .ogre poster.
>>

 No.11445

>>11443
You need to go outside and have sex NOW!
>>

 No.11446

>>11445
Just had sex. Still agree with him on the Zigger problem. TZD is the only solution.
>>

 No.11447

>>11445
>>11446
Also, you should not be having sex outside. That is illegal in most places. You can also get things stuck where they shouldn't be, like sand, which I hate.
>>

 No.11448

>>11441
>it's not a slur, because i say so.
incurable
You can't have your which-hunt, the dark ages are over.
>There is no evidence
there were strange anomalies in the Haiti fires, it's intellectually dishonest to ignore that.
>politically motivated legal proceedings are completely valid.
No, everybody has to be treated the same by the law.
If there's political motivations driving legal processes that means justice isn't blind.
Consider that if Trump committed crimes, but his legal prosecution is prejudiced, that means he goes unpunished because of legal technicalities.
>>

 No.11449

>>11448
>You can't have your which-hunt,
It's not a witch hunt. If you like authoritarian sites, ho to .ogre, where everyone already agrees with you or is banned.
>there were strange anomalies in the Haiti fires
There aren't. The only people saying this are faggots without expertise on the matter.
>No, everybody has to be treated the same by the law.
I'm glad you agree. Trump broke several laws and now he's being prosecuted. You can stop crying about your daddy now.
>>

 No.11450

>>11443
>>11444
This is tribal in-group out-group behavior. You should have grown out of this phase between the age of 15-19 years old.

Are you a teenager, or did you get mentally stuck or something ?
>>

 No.11451

>>11448
>Consider that if Trump committed crimes, but his legal prosecution is prejudiced, that means he goes unpunished because of legal technicalities.
Oh, I almost forgot to respond to this retarded series of digital diarrhea. Can you name said legal technicalities? Can you tell everyone here about your complete ignorance on prosecutorial discretion? I think we would all enjoy that.
>>

 No.11452

>>11450
Disliking authoritarians isn't about othering them. We have fundamental differences that cannot be reconciled. They can always stop being cunts.
>>

 No.11453

>>11449
>It's not a witch hunt.
Of course it is.
>go where everyone already agrees with you or is banned.
I don't care if you disagree with me, after-all i like to argue, your problem is that you're not arguing, you're just trying to which-hunt people who disagree with you.
>the strange anomalies in the Haiti fires can be dismissed because it's not the expert-authority-discourse
You're treating experts like they were high-priests in a theocracy, science isn't a cathedral where only those that studied the holy texts can speak. You have to explain the weird shit, why are there towns completely burned down to ashes, except for trees standing right next to burned down houses. How does that work, how do trees survive inside such a raging inferno ?
>>

 No.11454

>>11452
>Disliking authoritarians isn't about othering them.
Still tribal discourse, rhetorically demarcating in-group and out-groups.

>We have fundamental differences that cannot be reconciled.
Probably true, but that doesn't justify your tribal behavior.
People aren't their opinions, you can reject somebody's opinion without having to reject the person holding the opinion. Why do i have to explain howto human101 to you ?
>>

 No.11455

>>11434
>Most of the leftychan founders were tankies. It was the ogre mods who were the socdems/anarchists.
They're all tankies, .ogres mods are histrionic troons and queers. That's the difference.
I'm not saying that to be edgy, the .ogres are absolutely tormented by gender issues and BPD. It's insane how personally they the discourse on their backwater site that even /pol/ has forgotten about.
>>

 No.11456

>>11451
>>11449
>I'm glad you agree. Trump broke several laws and now he's being prosecuted. You can stop crying about your daddy now.

The legal proceedings against trump are lawfare, the goal is not to prosecute and convict him for crimes, the purpose is to use the legal process itself to force him out of politics. The people doing this do not care whether Trump gets convicted or all the cases against him get thrown out because they put the thumb on the scale, as long as it serves their objective of levering him out of the political process. If you genuinely care about justice, you do not have common cause with these people.
>>

 No.11457

File: 1695079791420.png ( 381.42 KB , 637x687 , 1692922283060335.png )

>>11437
>muh Daddy Trump
>>The legal proceedings against him are clearly politically motivated. That's a sign of a deteriorating society regardless who it affects.
You have to go back.
>>

 No.11458

>>11453
>Of course it is.
Are you being banned? Persecuted? No.
>I don't care if you disagree with me, after-all i like to argue, your problem is that you're not arguing,
I have, and I argue that someone so touchy about the word tankie is himself a tankie.
>You're treating experts like they were high-priests
No, I treat them as someone who might know something I don't. Mechanics will tell you not to put antifreeze in your engine oil. Should they be ignored or do you think they might know something you don't? You are not only not a subject-matter expert in any field. You seem to be ignorant of even the basics. Why should anyone listen to you over an expert? That is the question you must answer.
>>

 No.11459

>>11448
Shut up tankie
>>

 No.11460

>>11454
>Still tribal discourse, rhetorically demarcating in-group and out-groups.
Well, how would you like tankies to be described? Authoritarian leftists? Red fascists? Or should I ask them if they supported driving tanks into Hungary?
>Probably true, but that doesn't justify your tribal behavior.
Well, I say that it isn't tribal behavior, and calling me Tribalistic is a slur. What do you have to say for yourself and your divisive rhetoric?
>you can reject somebody's opinion without having to reject the person holding the opinion.
Okay, from now on I'll just say that they have tankie opinions. I am now calling the opinions bad.
>>

 No.11461

>>11459
Are the tankies in the room with you now, anon?
>>

 No.11462

>>11456
>The legal proceedings against trump are lawfare,
Call it what you want. They are valid and legal.
>the goal is not to prosecute and convict him for crimes, the purpose is to use the legal process itself to force him out of politics.
Yes, because he committed crimes, and I have no problem with him being out of politics. I'm not a fascist.
>If you genuinely care about justice, you do not have common cause with these people.
They seem to have a legal justification, so what are you on about? I would have thought Communists of all people should want to see an American president behind bars.
>>

 No.11463

>>11458
>calling somebody the T-slur is an argument
it's not, calling others names, isn't the same as arguing a point

>No, I treat them as someone who might know something I don't. Mechanics will tell you not to put antifreeze in your engine oil. Should they be ignored or do you think they might know something you don't?
This is an argument from authority fallacy.

The reason not to mix antifreeze and engine oil is because:
<When antifreeze mixes with engine oil, it reduces the oil viscosity and lubricating power, resulting in loss of engine power and lubrication, leading to engine damage. The chemicals in antifreeze are harsh to internal engine components like for example bearings, causing wear and damage over time if repeatedly exposed.
Not because St.Mechanicus said so. You seem to lack any concept for the possibility that phenomena can be explained and understood.

>Dodging the request for an explanation of the strange phenomena in Haiti-fires with an ad-hominem-fallacy
You can either explain the weird shit that people have documented or admit that you can't just dismiss this out of hand.
>>

 No.11464

>>11463
>>11463
>calling somebody the T-slur is an argument
it's not, calling others names, isn't the same as arguing a point
Great job arguing with yourself, dipshit. Unfortunately, I never said that. Next time you tey to lecture someone on argumentation, try not to use a blatant straw man.
>This is an argument from authority fallacy.
Wrong again, faggot. A fallacious argument from authority would be to say that the President told me so. It is not fallacious to quote a subject-matter expert on his field of expertise. Do you ask your doctor to present arguments for his diagnosis? You're an absolute dumbfuck, you know that?
>The reason not to mix antifreeze and engine oil is because
Assuming you didn't know that, are you going to have an argument with a mechanic? The answer is no, because you don't know shit.
>Not because St.Mechanicus said so. You seem to lack any concept for the possibility that phenomena can be explained and understood.
Oh, but I do. The problem is that people like you do not know anything about what you argue, and it's quite obvious.
>You can either explain the weird shit that people have documented or admit that you can't just dismiss this out of hand.
There's nothing weird about it. You don't understand how fires work. That's the simplest explanation.
Vid related. It's what you look like.
>>

 No.11465

File: 1695082859550.jpg ( 290.82 KB , 1030x1336 , 1692735893644868.jpg )

>>11438
Discomrade?
Is that you?
>>

 No.11466

>>11462
>I would have thought Communists of all people should want to see an American president behind bars.
Trump won't go to prison, he's got enough money to stretch out litigation until he died of old age. There isn't going to be any surplus enjoyment.
Communists also don't think US presidents steer the US empire, even if you put every US president behind bars, the people principally responsible for all the heinous crimes of empire would still have gotten away with it.

He isn't in legal trouble because of crimes. Every US president is guilty in that regard. The ruling class in the US wants Trump out because he sometimes says the quite part out-loud. Like his Tweet about Syria that said "We kept the oil !" He's embarrassing them and contradicting the American exceptionalism narrative about bombing for "freedom and democracy with rainbow-flags".
>>

 No.11467

>>11466
>Trump won't go to prison, he's got enough money to stretch out litigation until he died of old age.
Not really. This is what his supporters are precisely worried about, though.
>Communists also don't think US presidents steer the US empire
Then most Communists must be really stupid if they don't think the chief executive has any power. Thankfully you're just making shit up again.
>He isn't in legal trouble because of crimes
Then explain his criminal prosecutions. He's recorded confessing to one of them, kek.
>The ruling class in the US wants Trump
Trump is a billionaire capitalist. He is part of that ruling class. He's not your friend.
>Like his Tweet about Syria that said "We kept the oil !"
But the US never did that. Nice try.
>He's embarrassing them and contradicting the American exceptionalism narrative about bombing for "freedom and democracy with rainbow-flags".
Embarrassing them in front of who?
>>

 No.11469

File: 1695108278516.jpg ( 269.15 KB , 1080x1122 , Screenshot_2023-09-19-14-2….jpg )

Took less than a minute to be banned for this. Apparently I hit a nerve.

Imagine being some faggot transhumanistjannie that says up in the middle of the night to ban people from an online echobox where the only permissible dialogue revolves around broadcasting how mentally ill and socially maladjusted you are.
>>

 No.11470

>>11450
>This is tribal in-group out-group behavior.
"tribal" is when the differences are not ideological and political, but purely competitive, faggot

we have political differences that I would kill you for, it's that simple
>>

 No.11471

Also, the compromising "let's all live in peace!" is the biggest faggotry of all

Si vis pacem, para bellum, faggot
>>

 No.11472

>>11470
>we have political differences that I would kill you for
that is, if we're actually in a political struggle for state power

and that's how it should be, your
ideals of unity inspired by the parliamentary coalitions are for limpdick faggots

real political process cannot be anything but bloody
>>

 No.11474

>>11465
No lol
>>

 No.11475

>>11465
that's a man
>>

 No.11476

File: 1695152872886.mp4 ( 26.47 MB , 1280x720 , 0326e3f3.mp4 )

The only reason ogre gets most of the traffic is because they kept the old URL, not because it's somehow better moderated or that the userbase agrees with the split.
>>

 No.11478

File: 1695281327746.png ( 367.64 KB , 665x374 , evil demon of darkness.png )

>>11431

It's a picture where, you know, the more I look at it… the less I understand it. I don't really assume good faith in the .org staff anymore - honestly, the coup against Bunkerchan should have ended any good faith I had, but I still bit for a while.

It's entirely possible that .org is feds. It's possible they're /pol/. It's possible they're some other far-right group. It's possible that they're /r/socialism trying to get revenge (though I doubt they'd even be competent enough to pull it off), it's possible that it's a bunch of narcissists off twitter or reddit or closed fbi.gov groups. It's possible it's foreign spooks, although I kind of doubt this. It's possible that it's just a bunch of sadists.

I can only say that they are not sincere. I can say with confidence that it's not a tankie freakout - original BO had tankie freakouts, and those were shit but they were at least ideologically coherent, and they were bad but considerably milder than this current stuff. I don't know specifically what their deal is, and I don't personally expect to ever know conclusively.
>>

 No.11497

File: 1695782887746.jpg ( 33.98 KB , 491x612 , lmao.jpg )

>>11452
>supports an armed revolution to subjugate the ruling class, aka authority, and establish control over a given territory, aka authority
>is against "authoritarianism"
>>

 No.11498

>>11497
if workers have authority then…
>>

 No.11499

File: 1695792603168.jpeg ( 7.9 KB , 298x169 , download (6).jpeg )

>>11497
>"Ha! You're for making it illegal to do things like murder. That requires authority. Therefore there is no difference between that and making it illegal to post a funny picture online!"
You're a fucking idiot.
>>

 No.11500

>>11499
>outlawing racism is… le bad
western leftist crackers love muh freeze peach
>>

 No.11501

>>11500
Go back faggot. Pasquale is waiting for you to service his girldick
>>

 No.11503

>Well, how would you like tankies to be described? Authoritarian leftists? Red fascists?

"Red fascists" just screams "i'm a neo-liberal"
"Tankie" is now a word that the pseudo left calls anybody on the actual left

"authoritarian" isn't a political position.

You can use state authority to enforce freedom of expression, you can also use it to trample on freedom of expression. You can use state authority to enforce good labor conditions, or you can use it to force people to work in appalling conditions.

Do you understand the concept here, "Authoritarian" does not describe an interest group, it's not really a political expression.
>>

 No.11504

>>11500
>China banned Pooh because racism
Kek, that's a new excuse.
>>

 No.11505

>>11503
>You can use state authority to enforce freedom of expression,
That's not what authoritarian means. It means centralized power and authority that restricts personal freedoms, but you knew that already.
>>

 No.11506

>>11505
>That's not what authoritarian means.
Why should we play this positional game of shifting word definitions ?

Why shouldn't we outright state that we would like to use coercive state power to create a information space that enables free expression. This action will be liberating for all the people that get free-speech but it will be restraining for all those that wish to interfere with free-speech. For those it will feel like getting "authoritarinized".

>It means centralized power and authority that restricts personal freedoms, but you knew that already.
Free speech and expression came out of the enlightenment, and it used centralized state power to smash the censorious theocratic institutions.

All that said freedom of expression can also be implemented by decentralized or distributed structures. Doing it this way probably has advantages. Maybe structural solutions are more enduring. But it seems dishonest to pretend that you can't use the state for this as well, when historically that was the case.

Imagine we could access state resources to developed and implement distributed information technology. Censorship would be in the dustbin of history in 2-3 years.
>>

 No.11507

>>11506
That sure is a lot of words that don't address the central issue. You are not in favor of free expression. You wouldn't cry about being called a tankie otherwise. You simp for authoritarian governments. This is why we hate you. This is why we will fight you. This is why you are a fascist.
>>

 No.11508

>>11507
>if you're in favor of free expression then you don't care what people call you
Ok then you child molesting transsexual uyghur.
>>

 No.11509

>>11507
>the central issue.
That i don't subscribe to your simplistic black and white world view.
>This is why we hate
>This is why we fight
>This is why we dehumanize
Yup that's what black and white thinking does to you.

>authoritarian governments
All governments are based on authority, what matters is whose interests and rights it enforces.

>being called a tankie
I'm opposed to sectarianism.

>You are not in favor of free expression.
I guess it's inconvenient for you to imagine that we could agree on free expression, while you are trying to paint me as the great satan.
>>

 No.11510

>>11509
>>11509
>I guess it's inconvenient for you to imagine that we could agree on free expression,
We don't. This is no different from a Nazi that cries about freedom of expression with the entire goal of censoring others. You're not fooling anyone.
>>

 No.11511

>>11510
>I make wild unfounded accusations, but that's ok as long as i dehumanize you enough.
We agree on upholding freedom of expression, but disagree on other matters. If you'd be a sane person we might even be able to cooperate in those matters we have common cause.
>>

 No.11512

>>11510
Retarded faggot. The jannies (God bless them) are letting you display your ignorance here.

Take your fat ass over to leftypol.net and try the same thing. Watch your milquetoast PragerU hot takes get deleted in a microsecond.

As an aside, as much as I think the average poster here is naive/delusional, they are much more pleasant to interact with and traffic far fewer strawmen than your sheltered know-it-all autism.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, fat people (70% of Amerikwans) don't deserve human rights. Freedom of speech on for people competent enough to control what goes into their mouths.
>>

 No.11513

>>11511
You mocked the idea of being anti-authoritarian. You're backpedaling, like a bitch, because you know you've been caught out. We fundamentally disagree. Go simp for your dictators, faggot.
>>

 No.11514

>>11513
The autism is strong with this one

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