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Thoughts on an idpol struggle session thread?

Clearly we haven't spoken about idpol in the past 2(?) years since the site-wide ban.

Maybe we need to revisit it and engage in a struggle session about idpol, not about specific idpol topics. Newfriends probably don't know what anti-idpol means, and people still repeat vulgar marxist takes on idpol.


For example, I still read a lot of posters saying shit like "class first", when that's vulgar marxism. "class first" doesn't make sense, first to what? What comes second? Do idpol issues have no class basis?

So this would be an opportunity to teach newfriends on why being a bigot is not actually helping anyone.


We could also address these issues as they pertain to what is allowed to be discussed on the board:

>that not taking a stand for the incorporation of the whole of the proletariat that identifies as leftist is inevitably opening yourself up to any so-called "leftist" embracing whatever chauvinistic tendencies they please

>there must be a hard line against reactionary expressions for the exclusion of the proletariat, be it along ethnic or gender or identity lines

>there is no functional difference between someone saying that the left should exclude gays and trans in the middle east to someone saying that the Chinese are incapable of socialism because they are racially inferior


for clarity >>3853 are my points

But the basis of anti-idpol comes out of the olden days of 8chan back whenever we were neigh-always fighting with /pol/ retards and came out of oldBO's attempts at a sort of vanguardist modding system. the foundations of anti-idpol was largely pragmatic and was done as a way to both erase a lot of the /pol/ spam about muh gays and trannies but also to form a more cohesive basis for what qualified as "leftist" within the context of our non-sectarian leftism.

Anti idpol as a rule was the general statement that there should be no mistake that the proletariat should not be excluded from leftist organization and action on the basis of their personal identity while at the same time guaranteeing them that they would be a part of the liberational project of socialism - just not as the central basis of it.

to tl;dr it, all idpols were allowed to be a part of the project and they were all guaranteed liberation from the capitalist structure as all of the proletariat are, meaning the end of material and social discrimination.

this would mean that any construction of a state which did not have commitment to this form of liberation, be it immediate or more reformist, could not really be considered a "left" project because it did not seek emancipation for the proletariat as a whole. it could still be supported critically despite of this, of course.

that is the what, why, and how of what the anti-idpol rule constitutes from my POV as a longtime /leftypol/ member. often I find it insufficient and stifling because it is also used to block "productive" discussions of idpol, back in the day more justifiable because it just invites /pol/ retards but now that we are largely decoupled from /pol/ it may be worthwhile to consider having more productive threads about what having gay or trans or ethnic identities means. however, we should never drop the hard line against reactionary idpol because it is betraying our fellow proles to opportunists, chauvinists, and more often than not probably CIA agents.


I never agreed with that dumb ban in the first place. Idpol is a poison and we can only strengthen our position as the internet's bastion of staunch anti-idpol left discussion by interrogating why it's so bad every now and then.


How do we stop that just devolving into rampant stupidpollery though?


The actual anti-idpol mod position wasn't a thing until recently during our time on bunkerchan. I know, because I once made a good thread on fighting idpol before the rule was instated, and now feel like I can never have that sort of discussion again.


You've forgotten how bad the idpol general was, haven't you?


I've never really cared much for "general" threads in general, so I guess not.


nah it was a sorta mid to late 8chan thing, some time before the split v1 occurred, but I can't remember exactly when
the more hardline position we have now is sorta a construction of bunkerchan yes, there was a lot of allowed gender crit or other kinds of racial material analysis threads back on 8chan, but the rule is fairly consistent, just the extents to how it was enforced kinda wasn't.


Tbf it wasn't so much the problem with the thread itself, the problem was that the cancer inside the thread kept leeching out and infecting the rest of the board.


I think periodic penis flattening threads.
Once every two weeks or a month, non-cyclical, only one, and heavily modded against idpol which isn't conducive to discussion.
It was getting pretty bad and the resident idpolers had a place to call home. Their idpol bullshit started spilling on to other threads, derailing random threads on the overboard to discuss their pet issues.


The anti idpol discussion rule? I know that's not true because of the thread I mentioned, made on bunkerchan.


yeah there was usually allowed various degrees of discussion of idpol on 8chan and bunkerchan, its that the rule at its current severity only came about because of bunkerchan (and specifically the whole incel/idpol gulag debacle)

but the rule did exist back during 8chan, if you go back in the archives you can still find mentions of it at various points. it was a lot looser than now granted but it was used to form specific threads as containment for idpol topics, a good example being the old gender-crit containment bunker here

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