/R9K/ - Robot - 9000

NGL, Marxist definitely have an image problem. They all fancy themselves intellects that are above base concerns like image, so we wind up with a bunch of weedy proselytizing geeks that the average worker can barely tolerate to be around much less risk their lives following.
We need to sex up Marxists and Marxism and beat the shit out any dweebs that don't follow suit.

>>1355
When grassroots socialist movements have been successful there's always a confident strongman, beloved by the people, leading the party. So your hypothesis does have some merit OP.

I like Nasser.

>>1362
This is a completely ahistorical and retarded take. Praise commune, Spain, Hay market affair. People work on self interest not a strong man theory of history.

>>1364
>Paris commune, Spain, Hay market affair.
Anon please read my post again, I specifically said successful socialist movements.

>>1366
What is successful? By many metrics they were seuccesful. You can;y just aribtrarily define success as whatever you want and discount everything else that these people did. Again, you are still a dishonest faggot and I am convinced a fed at this point.

>>1367
High levels of copium here lmao.

I define success as actually managing to found a socialist state, none of your examples got remotely close to doing that. Instead they all got BTFO'd by reactionaries at the first hurdle due to being so disorganised, and lacking the proper hierarchy to respond to such an attack.

>>1367
>I am convinced a fed at this point.
Glowies much prefer revolts of the same nature as the Paris Commune or Catalonia. Look at the CHAZ, they just sat outside and waited for it to fall apart by itself lmao.

Revolutionary states like the Soviet Union, Vietnam, Cuba etc. take MUCH more resources for the glowfags to subvert and destroy.

>>1368
>I can't actually give a definition of what I mean so that is just cope and you're an anarchist and blah blah blah

Cop

>>1369
>Glowies prefer when people have actual freedom and don't get thrown in a gulag by a repressive governmental body that ignores the very human rights they themselves have laid out for their own population.

Yeah dude. The Paris commune is what right wingers point to all the time when they want to complain about how much of a failure socialism has been.

What a fucking absolute joke, kek.

>>1370
I gave a definition, I consider a successful socialist movement to result in the establishment of a revolutionary worker's state which lasts for more than a few months. I mean the Catalonian revolution lasted what… a week? If that? By what metric is that a success lmao

>>1371
>muh gulags
and you call me the glowie lol
>muh freedom
Freedom to do what, get shot and raped by a reactionary army because your meme decentralised worker's militias disintegrated upon first contact with the enemy? Read Engels.

>>1371
>The Paris commune is what right wingers point to all the time when they want to complain about how much of a failure socialism has been.
They don't point to it all because nobody other than idealistic anarchists who fetishize losing care about it in 2022.

>>1372
>I consider a successful socialist movement to result in the establishment of a revolutionary worker's state
What kind of communist thinks that success is about creating a state.

>>1374
Ones that don't get crushed by imperialists, apparently.

>>1372
Oh so you have loaded the conversation by refering to the establishment of a "state" When Catalonia existed for years and the paris commune existed for a year but you are just interested in very arbitrary time frames because you are a retard.

>
and you call me the glowie lol

Poointing out historical fact that you deny doesn't make me a glow uyghur retard.

>>muh freedom
Freedom to do what, get shot and raped by a reactionary army because your meme decentralised worker's militias disintegrated upon first contact with the enemy? Read Engels.

And the soviet union is dead so every one failed in the 20th century but at least if with decentralization people have the freedom,to make choices that matter in their lives. I on't give a shit about the army nore am I an anarchist but you are just a massive retard who thinks in black and white terms.

>>1373
>YOU'RE EITHER BLACK OR YOU ARE WHITE

Imagine thinking this way in 2922,

ANOTHER POINT…

Even anarkiddie revolutions have chad figures at the helm. One of the most infamous anarchist revolutionaries, Nestor Makhno, literally named the territory his militias controlled "Makhnovshchina" and was well known by the population. And the Rojavans are horny as fuck for Öcalan.

>>1378
Strong man theory of history is idealism and not based on materialism or a dialectical methodology.

>>1376
>When Catalonia existed for years and the paris commune existed for a year but you are just interested in very arbitrary time frames because you are a retard.
What did Catalonia or the Paris commune achieve in this timeframe? Life for proles in both of them was pretty shit due to the fact they were under siege and getting bombed constantly. Didn't they end up having to eat rats in the Paris commune, sounds pretty shit tbh.
>And the soviet union is dead so every one failed in the 20th century
The Soviet Union lifted millions of peasants and proles from horrific poverty, turned a feudal empire into an industrial superpower, and defeated Nazi Germany pretty much singlehandedly. Sure, the USSR was eventually destroyed from within, but at least they actually managed to defend their fucking revolution and bring unseen prosperity to the proletariat.
>at least if with decentralization people have the freedom,to make choices that matter in their lives
Freedom doesn't mean shit when you're living on a diet of rats and get shelled every morning.

>>1380
>Yeah bro I know they literally controlled an entire economy democratically and unionized millions of workers into syndicates but this just isn't "successful" base don my arbitrary metrics.

>Muh millions were lifted out of poverty

So what you are saying is that the end justify the means?
I am a socialist and my metrics for success as a socialist include a raise in the standards of living and more freedom for the people who live in that society. That is and always was the point of socialism until retards like stalin and Mao revised the words of Marx to include violating human rights and pogroms.

>Freedom doesn't mean shit when you're living on a diet of rats and get shelled every morning.

I can literally smell the vanilla late coming from your iced coffe while you type this on a macbook pro and your local starbucks. What do you do for a living?

People would rather have less economic freedom under capitalism and eat the soylent than have less freedom under socialism and a higher standard of living because of retards like you. Socialism is about a better life in totality for the proletariat of which you are not part of I am willing to be. I am certain I have pegged your typing habits on the board too and I am familiar with your posts. You are literally the biggest far huffing retard on the board and you need to fuck off and pull your head out of your own ass.

>>1381
>I am a socialist and my metrics for success as a socialist include a raise in the standards of living and more freedom for the people who live in that society
The latter is impossible without the former. In Stalin's words:
<"We did not build this society in order to restrict personal liberty but in order that the human individual may feel really free. We built it for the sake of real personal liberty, liberty without quotation marks. It is difficult for me to imagine what "personal liberty" is enjoyed by an unemployed person, who goes about hungry, and cannot find employment."

<"Real liberty can exist only where exploitation has been abolished, where there is no oppression of some by others, where there is no unemployment and poverty, where a man is not haunted by the fear of being tomorrow deprived of work, of home and of bread. Only in such a society is real, and not paper, personal and every other liberty possible."

>That is and always was the point of socialism until retards like stalin and Mao revised the words of Marx to include violating human rights and pogroms.
Socialism is about ending the class oppression of proletariat by the bourgeoisie. It is impossible to carry out a revolution in full, and defend it from outside reactionary forces, while playing by the rules of the bourgeoisie. What do you envision your politically correct revolution to look like, you vote in AOC and she expropriates the capitalists wealth with no resistance? Marx and Engles absolutely condoned the use of authoritarian by the proletariat during a revolution, it's called a 'dictatorship of the proletariat' for a reason!
>I can literally smell the vanilla late coming from your iced coffe while you type this on a macbook pro and your local starbucks. What do you do for a living?
I make minimum wage, hate coffee and Mac OS is shit. Stop strawmanning because you're losing the arguement.
>People would rather have less economic freedom under capitalism and eat the soylent than have less freedom under socialism and a higher standard of living because of retards like you.
Unfortunately my leftychan posts don't hav what much influence anon, I wish they did…
But it is the monopoly the capitalists have on media and academia which has tricked masses into thinking that "freedom and democracy" is being able to choose from 800 brands of bottled water, and vote for one of two identical parties which despise them every 5 years. The reason the ruling class don't demonise Catalonia and Paris is not because they were perfect revolutions, but because they're so irrelevant. In fact, at the time the bourgeois media did point to the mass executions of priests and forced labour camps in Catalonia as proof of their evil. The difference is that socialists who oppose the Catalonian revolution on ideological grounds know better than to echo porkie propaganda when listing its flaws.
>Socialism is about a better life in totality for the proletariat of which you are not part of I am willing to be.
Anon I'm going to let you into a little secret: generally people who make a lot of money and are "successful" under capitalism don't post in fucking leftychan.net /r9k/. Crazy, I know.
>I am certain I have pegged your typing habits on the board too and I am familiar with your posts. You are literally the biggest far huffing retard on the board and you need to fuck off and pull your head out of your own ass.
There are quite a few others who echo my sentiment. Same for your side of this debate. Thinking "everyone who disagrees with me is the same guy" is just monkey pattern recognition brain not being able to handle anonymous imageboards.

>>1382
I know what Stalin said. Again, you are not as smart as you think you are. Stalin was a revisionist megalomaniac. Nore do I really see why this is relevant because the two are not mutually exclusive. You are sitting there acting like you just can't hve freedom while you raise people standards of living when you absolutely can. Even if the USSR did good things it also failed in other ways and we should learn from them.
Ways like having centralized governmental bodies control the lives and choices of what ultimately belong to the will of the masses themselves. Unless your "socialist" movement involves that I do not want to be a part of it.

>Socialism is about ending the class oppression of proletariat by the bourgeoisie.

You're saying the exact same thing I am just in a different way. Obviously that is what it is about and what that is about itself is better lives for the people exploited by the hand of capitalism. Nore does democratic association mean "politically correct" you have to resort to these rhetorical tricks because you know you are on the loosing end of this argument because no one in modern times is willing to subjugate themselves to pogroms and authoritarianism under socialist movments. They only way to gain relevancy is to appeal to peoples sense of freedom in the modern era. You've clearly never done any actual organizing which is why you probably cannot seem to understand how unions and syndicates function, or, even soviets.

>I make minimum wage, hate coffee and Mac OS is shit. Stop strawmanning because you're losing the arguement.

=Cope==

>Unfortunately my leftychan posts don't hav what much influence anon, I wish they did…
But it is the monopoly the capitalists have on media and academia which has tricked masses into thinking that "freedom and democracy" is being able to choose from 800 brands of bottled water, and vote for one of two identical parties which despise them every 5 years. The reason the ruling class don't demonise Catalonia and Paris is not because they were perfect revolutions, but because they're so irrelevant. In fact, at the time the bourgeois media did point to the mass executions of priests and forced labour camps in Catalonia as proof of their evil. The difference is that socialists who oppose the Catalonian revolution on ideological grounds know better than to echo porkie propaganda when listing its flaws.


This is why tankies are dumb: People haven't been tricked into anything. People have accepted their fate because no viable alternatives have been presented. People think that socialism is when authoritarians like stalin take all the freedoms away. Freedoms like choosing coke or pepsi. They have resigned themselves. People like you have to spin this narrative that they are "simply fooled" because you think that people in general are stupid but the truth is people have chosen to accept this narrative of history because it is better than the only alternative they know

>Anon I'm going to let you into a little secret: generally people who make a lot of money and are "successful" under capitalism don't post in fucking leftychan.net /r9k/. Crazy, I know.

Why not? We know literally nothing about eachother. I can tell you deff are a yuppie of some type though because you think you are better than everyone else. Such a faggot. Get over yourself.

>There are quite a few others who echo my sentiment. Same for your side of this debate. Thinking "everyone who disagrees with me is the same guy" is just monkey pattern recognition brain not being able to handle anonymous imageboards.

I dunno man, I guess. But you o come off as very self rightous.

>>1371
>Yeah dude. The Paris commune is what right wingers point to all the time when they want to complain about how much of a failure socialism has been.
Tankies eternally BTFO'd.