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File: 1675899577676.png ( 1.06 MB , 899x899 , 1675712250463509.png )

 No.1502[Last 50 Posts]

I don't even think it should be illegal for any moral reason, or, because I think it is degenerate. I think it is bullshit women get to get by only on their looks and their pussies. They should get a job like the rest of us.
>>

 No.1505

It would collapse the pussy market in the US, that's why it's illegal.
It's legal in Germany and you can get a blow job for like $50.
>>

 No.1507

>>1505
Every bitch I scroll past on tictok is just some half naked slut showing off her body trying to farm views for no other reason than that. It's annoying
>>

 No.1509

File: 1675936442211.png ( 16.02 KB , 250x240 , probably canceled.png )

>>1502
If you want to know about commodified sex capitalism I recommend the Probably canceled podcast.

https://open.spotify.com/show/2WoL1XMXQiepfMdJIHwOPA

They are proletarian feminists and their first episode is titled "Liberalism is a plague" so they definitely are not the radlib type. They offer a view that is pretty much opposed to prostitution and pornography.

They did many interviews with prostitutes, i recommend listening to a few of their episodes, they pretty much dispel all the ideas that liberals have about "sex work". Some of it is really brutal and dark unfiltered reality type stuff, so beware of that.
>>

 No.1512

>>1509
Thanks anon, deff gonna check this out. I undersstand that capitalism is what drives people to these points in the first place, but, here now and in a lower stage of communism I don't think it should be allowed.
>>

 No.1513

It should neither be legal nor illegal. It should be decriminalized. Same with drugs.
/thread
>>

 No.1514

>>

 No.1515

>>1514
Yes. This is the correct socialist line and nobody will ever convince me otherwise.
>>

 No.1516

>>1515
why should women be able to make a living strictly off their bodies?
>>

 No.1517

File: 1675980445957.jpg ( 65.24 KB , 720x814 , 20230109_125319.jpg )

>>1516
The market is oversaturated now, so it's hard to make a living just from porn for most e-whores. There are simply too many mid white girls with daddy issues posting their assholes on the internet.
>>

 No.1519

>>1516
They shouldn't, but that doesn't make them criminals. How hard is it to understand this?
>>

 No.1521

>>1519
What do you think the legal system is? They aren't criminals but if we criminalized it it would deter this behavior.
>>

 No.1524

>>1519
I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, you should do whatever you want with your body. On the other hand, if prostitution is a legitimate job, can you be forced to take said job? After all, we can conscript people into the military, force inmates to work, and so on. So if prostitution is just like any other job, can you force people into it, and if you cannot, why? Can you sue a prostitute for services not rendered? Could a civil court force a prostitute to provide services if she is unable to pay damages?
>>

 No.1525

>>1524
>Women who won't suck dick for minimum wage can't get unemployment
>>

 No.1526

>>1524
I think you should be able to do whatever you want with your own body but I also think that prostitution and just using that body to make insane amounts of capital, or, any capital at all when men cannot be granted the same is nonsense.
>>

 No.1528

>>1521
Criminalization is not the only way to deter unwanted behaviour, nor is it desirable. Any developed socialist country can manage the vices of its citizens without resorting to the threat of policing.
>>

 No.1529

>>1528
>Tfw naive
Homie really wants an overbearing mammy state in which the threat of overt violence remains an option while never needed due all encompassing social control masqueraded as for the collective/individual good.
<We know you'll do the right thing, sweet heart
>>

 No.1530

File: 1676058165213.jpg ( 14.44 KB , 270x270 , 1663703607921101.jpg )

>>1529
In this one instance yes. Why should women not be able to do work? Prostitution is part of the lumpen proletariat and selling your body is basically rent seeking behavior.

Try actually using your head instead of just shitting out the same canned responses you have to every situation. I mean just because I want to make on think illegal doesn't mean I want to make every thing illegal. What are you a dumb ass anarkiddy? You don't believe in government at all?
>>

 No.1531

>>1526
I mean, I agree. This is why I said I'm of two minds on it. Furthermore, the normalization of this kind of behavior leads to being adopted as the norm. I've run into my share of women who were really after a transactional relationship more than a human one. This is just an extension of that. This is another symptom of capitalist commodification of human dynamics. This is why I sort of get dudes who say they literally cannot get laid or get a gf, because in some cases, it's true. Girls who would go out with them in other circumstances won't because they look at this like a transaction. I don't know if there is a solution to that, but I think we're beginning to see a backlash toward that kind of behavior. Women who do this should be avoided, but do not turn this into hate for all women, since there are still plenty of good ones out there.
>>

 No.1533

>>1531
>Furthermore, the normalization of this kind of behavior leads to being adopted as the norm. I've run into my share of women who were really after a transactional relationship more than a human one. This is just an extension of that.
Women who think like this will exist anyways, legalization of prostitution will just take them out of the dating pool (which is good)
>>

 No.1534

>>1530
>selling your body is basically rent seeking behavior
No, it's not. It's producing a commodity (sex) by combining labor-power (a prostitute's time) with constant capital (contraceptives, whorehouse, costs associated with keeping the prostitute on the street). A whore is prole as fuck.
>>

 No.1535

>>1529
Yes, I want a state that can effectively govern and administer society.
>>

 No.1536

File: 1676205154167.jpg ( 79.95 KB , 800x1024 , 1668311296905374.jpg )

>>1534
>No, it's not. It's producing a commodity

Yes it is because humans are not the means of production. If you think humans an be capital then you also, logically, would believe slaves are a legitimate system of production.
This is your brain on idpol.

Furthermore, nothing is actually being produced. Useful commodities take time and labor which is transformed into an object of utility. Such as a hammer, or, Gun powder, or Cocaine. There is no production is sex it's just utilizing some ones body which they already have to offer up as capital for the transaction.

It's very much lump bourgeoisie behavior.
>>

 No.1537

>>1536
Not to mention liberals act like all women can succumb to the siren call of prostitution equally.
Nope, sorry, only young women who are at least moderately attractive can. And beauty is very much a class signifier.
Anyone that's ever bought sex will tell you that the vast majority of money made in sex work is done one places like Instagram by middle class women with rich men in arrangements that no one would call oppressive.
Women who live hard lives hooking on the corner are the exception and not the rule.
>>

 No.1538

>>1537
Sorry sweetie, that's your fault too💅🏽
>>

 No.1539

>>1535
Tough shit. Society governs the state.
>>

 No.1540

File: 1676221866686.mp4 ( 5.9 MB , 512x320 , SlavesVsWorkers.mp4 )

>>1536
>Yes it is because humans are not the means of production.
No, but a place to produce, tools of the trade, and the meeans by which seller and buyer meet all are.
>If you think humans an be capital then you also, logically, would believe slaves are a legitimate system of production.
Labor-power is capital in the hands of a capitalist, and slavery is a system of production. Read a damn book.
>Furthermore, nothing is actually being produced. Useful commodities take time and labor which is transformed into an object of utility.
Which is what sex is.
>There is no production is sex it's just utilizing some ones body
Bullshit. Labor-power (prostitutes' time) and means of production (online ads, ho costume, a place to lay down, etc.) get combined to make a commodity (sex) which is exchanged for money.
>which they already have to offer up as capital for the transaction.
Goddamnit, learn what these terms mean before you try to use them.
>>

 No.1541

>>1540
>Labor-power is capital in the hands of a capitalist, and slavery is a system of production. Read a damn book.
Niqqa you're the one talking past his points.
So when a hooker hooks she's hiring herself? See how stupid you sound. Prostitution is just an enclosure of a commons, it'd be no different if you started charging for breathing air. Westerners don't like putting it that way because they are so spoked by feminism and are terrified of being accused of supporting patriarchy.
But relationships are a zero sum game, there's equal amounts of eligible bachelors and bachelorettes and sex is how they bond.
Charging causes problems mostly for women because it let's eligible bachelors (read: middle and upper class men) out of the burdens of a relationship and let's them just opt in for only the sex.
When I jack off it doesn't make me a substance coomer, and when a women spreads her legs it doesn't make her a prole kek.
>>

 No.1542

File: 1676225608207.jpeg ( 718.38 KB , 2559x1439 , Last-Tango-in-Paris.jpeg )

>>1540
Based Marlon

tho don't approve how he fingered the asshole of Maria with his butter oiled finger lol
tho that is also on the director
good film tho
>>

 No.1543

>>1541
>Niqqa you're the one talking past his points.
No, I was not. He never made the points that you are making. He was just using terms like "capital" and "means of production" incorrectly.
>So when a hooker hooks she's hiring herself?
Assuming that we have a prostitute who is living very dangerously in that she has no pimp or madam and either works out of her own home or performs her productive activity in clients' homes (and who somehow manages to not get beaten, raped, and robbed too frequently) then you would have the most pathetic example of the petit-bourgeoisie in the world. The thing is, operating like that is suicidal. Even apart from dangerous johns, you have the cops trying to shake the girl down and random crazies who can't get laid and are angry with all the pretty girls. It's no living. That's why girls get pimps or work out of massage parlors.
>Prostitution is just an enclosure of a commons
Oh god, you really are that idiot from before who hears these leftist terms and doesn't know what they mean, aren't you?
>But relationships are a zero sum game
This is so stupid that I can only imagine that it comes from a bot. Bleep bloop.
>>

 No.1544

>>1542
Yeah, Brando was awesome, and that film is wildly underrated.
>>

 No.1545

>>1543
>Oh god, you really are that idiot from before who hears these leftist terms and doesn't know what they mean, aren't you?
I do know what it means. Like I said you're too spooked by liberal feminism to understand it that why.
This isn't a new concept, which is why Christianity explicitly bans both pre martial sex and polygamy. Both create romantic shortages so to speak.
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 No.1546

>>1545
01110101 01110010 01100001 01101101 01100001 01110011 01110011 01101001 01110110 01100101 01100110 01100001 01100111 01100111 01101111 01110100
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 No.1547

File: 1676257072668.png ( 129.25 KB , 391x467 , 1676154956139790.png )

>>1540
>No, but a place to produce, tools of the trade, and the meeans by which seller and buyer meet all are.

But this is not what defines some one as a laborer. A laborer is defined by some one who has nothing to sell but his labor power. Sexual favors are not labor power and it is not proletariat. It is lumpen bourgeoisie.


>No, but a place to produce, tools of the trade, and the meeans by which seller and buyer meet all are.


What does this have to do with anything that I said? That was exactly my point. You act like women in the modern age are all pimped out crack whores who work the local street corner of your 711 when as >> pointed out most modern whores pimp themelves on social media and OF. It's the exception not the rule.

"Sex work" today is getting half naked on tictok or getting thousands of dollars on OF. It's like saying vaush is a proletariat because he is a streamer who pays youtube a commission. He's petty bourgeoisie.

It's really obvious you have some ideology underlying your thought processes because of how upset you are getting.

>Which is what sex is.


Sex is not a product that is produced. Sex is an exchange.

>Bullshit. Labor-power (prostitutes' time) and means of production (online ads, ho costume, a place to lay down, etc.) get combined to make a commodity (sex) which is exchanged for money.


Using ones gentiles to have sex is not the production of a useful commodity that is sold at market for a price. Cope seethe and dial8.
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 No.1548

>>

 No.1549

>>1547
>But this is not what defines some one as a laborer.
No, it is what defines the mean of production. For fuck's sake, can you at least keep up with your own bullshit?
>Sexual favors are not labor power and it is not proletariat.
No, the time spent providing sexual favors as a commodity are labor-power.
>What does this have to do with anything that I said?
You made a claim about the means of production, and that's what the means of production are. Look, you being unable to keep up with your own iditotic points is not an argument.
>pointed out most modern whores pimp themelves on social media and OF. It's the exception not the rule.
Source?
>"Sex work" today is getting half naked on tictok or getting thousands of dollars on OF.
Bullshit.
>It's like saying vaush is a proletariat because he is a streamer who pays youtube a commission. He's petty bourgeoisie.
I don't know anything about that faggot or any other YouTard.
>It's really obvious you have some ideology underlying your thought processes because of how upset you are getting.
Another term you don't understand
>Sex is not a product that is produced.
Yes it is.
>Sex is an exchange.
Of bodily fluids
>Using ones gentiles to have sex is not the production of a useful commodity that is sold at market for a price.
That is 100% what it is.
>Cope seethe and dial8.
You have no argument, and you lose.
>>

 No.1550

>>1549
There's one guy on this board that angrily calls everyone else stupid. Basically the definition of dunning Kruger, but this post was gold. Additionally comes across like an incel
>Capitalism is the reason I can't get laid
Lol
>>

 No.1553

>sex is a commodity
<no it isnt
>yes it is
<nuh uh
>uh huh
>>

 No.1554

>>1549
>No, the time spent providing sexual favors as a commodity are labor-power.
It's more akin to rent than labor power. Women didn't do anything to have young and beautiful bodies, you can't "labor" and become a 22 year old woman with big boobs. That's what men are paying for, sexual gratification with a hot woman's body, not their "labor time".
Haven't you ever heard of the phrase " You don't pay for a whore to come to your bed, you pay them to leave".
It's another feminist delusion that women's time is inherently valuable. This is also how they justify old patriarchal traditions that benefit them like men paying for dates, the man is "paying" for the woman's time.
If mothers suddenly started charging their children for hugs that wouldn't make them proles and their children capitalists kek.
>>

 No.1556

>>1554
>It's more akin to rent than labor power.
No, it is not "akin" to rent. It is definitively selling time during which a productive activity is performed.
>Women didn't do anything to have young and beautiful bodies
That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not selling time that is spent laboring is labor-power.
>Haven't you ever heard of the phrase " You don't pay for a whore to come to your bed, you pay them to leave".
Why do losers love old timey pearls of wisdom so much?
>It's another feminist delusion that women's time is inherently valuable.
Everyone's time is inherently valuable; it is the substance which value is made of. That is the entire basis of the labor theory of value.
>If mothers suddenly started charging their children for hugs that wouldn't make them proles and their children capitalists kek.
How is it possible to be as stupid as you are?
>>1550
>There's one guy on this board that angrily calls everyone else stupid
He is stupid, and you probably are as well.
>>

 No.1557

File: 1676310172017.webm ( 5.79 MB , 960x720 , bajina.webm )

>>1556
>That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not selling time that is spent laboring is labor-power.
It does dipshit, "sex" is the commodity being bought. There's no wage, if you make someone nut in an a minute or over a few hours it's all charged the same.
And whose the capitalist in this exchange? The John? Is the John somehow taking surplus sex from the prostitute and putting it on the market?
You're just a daft feminist with mega hang ups regarding sex.
>Why do losers love old timey pearls of wisdom so much?
"Prostitution is the oldest profession". It predates capitalism by millennia, simply selling something on a market isn't capitalism.
>Everyone's time is inherently valuable; it is the substance which value is made of. That is the entire basis of the labor theory of value.
Holy shit no, look up the mud pie problem.
>How is it possible to be as stupid as you are?
You're just angry that this analogy is so apt. You can charge people literally for anything if you have enough power.
>>

 No.1558

>>1556
>Everyone's time is inherently valuable; it is the substance which value is made of. That is the entire basis of the labor theory of value.
The LTV deals with generalized commodity production. Sex and romance are not reproducible commodities being bought and sold on the market. Otherwise you might as well argue that mud pies and shitcoins actually have value.
>>

 No.1562

File: 1676358152943.jpg ( 143.05 KB , 1145x1280 , IMG_20230214_140139_467.jpg )

>ooomf
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 No.1563

>>1562
Greatest country on earth.
>>

 No.1564

File: 1676367293411.jpg ( 5.5 KB , 193x193 , 1676222897619789.jpg )

>>1549
ITT: Seething radlibs.
>>

 No.1565

>>1562
Based.
>>

 No.1566

>>1562
Based america lmao
>>

 No.1570

>>1562
THOT STATUS: PATROLED
But seriously, holy shit that's prudish. Why aren't feminists up in arms about this, I guess they really do only care about middle class western women.
>>

 No.1818

The question should be: can the exploitative aspect be removed?
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 No.1820

>>1818
Who cares
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 No.1821

>>1818
How can it not be exploitative? At the end of the day you're bribing someone to do something they really don't want to do for a relatively small amount of cash.
>>

 No.1826

>>1821
Congrats
You just won the prize for biggest faggot on this board. The competition was fierce, too.
>>

 No.1832

>>1826
did I just shatter some monger's self confidence lmao
>>

 No.1834

>>1832
Not a monger. Have never paid for anything approximating sexual services, never will.

I just think moralizing is lame. More importantly, the notion that people should never do things they don't want to do is a recipe for disaster and stunted development.
>>

 No.1835

>>1834
I take no issue with men buying sex honestly, I don't care about the wellbeing of women enough to get upset about it. However I do think as a concept it's pretty exploitative and leftists who are pro-sex work are retarded.

As I said in my first post, you're essentially bribing a woman to let you rape her and there's no sugarcoating that. Hence why the idea of "non-exploitative" prostitution is dumb.
>>

 No.1836

>>1835
Largely agree, except I'm more critical of otherwise healthy young men that pay women for sex (with very rare exception). And I try to avoid the loaded language. I don't want to work at a job. But I make a calculated descision to based on my other wants and needs. It's not slavery. I imagine many whores do the same but are better paid.
>>

 No.1837

>>1835
I don't really support prostitution either, but, how is it rape? If both parties agree even with money involved isn't that consensual?
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 No.1839

File: 1678829958922.jpg ( 155.79 KB , 1125x1393 , 20221211_015941.jpg )

>>1836
>I'm more critical of otherwise healthy young men that pay women for sex
Why? For many young and healthy men it's the only way they can get sex due to the way things are at the moment.
>I imagine many whores do the same but are better paid.
Most whores are trapped in the industry because they're too retarded or drug addled to do anything else. Either that or they're part of organised crime rings.

I mean anon if you really hated your job you would say "fuck it" and find a new one, maybe even in a different industry. However these bitches have no option but to suck dick for cash, whether that be a situation imposed on them by their own doing or by others. That's why it's not comparable to normal wage labour imo.

>>1837
Is it really consensual if the choice is between spreading your legs and going hungry?
>>

 No.1841

>>1570
>they really do only care about hwite western women.
fixed
>>

 No.1842

File: 1678834333855.png ( 193.51 KB , 403x419 , sd57r6f8t7g9y8.png )

i care about prostitutes about the same as i care about public urinals

i dont
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 No.1843

>>1842
That's a bad make. Why would you not care about working people? Most prostitutes are poor and aren't really doing it cause they want to.
>>

 No.1844

File: 1678837426474.png ( 199.02 KB , 316x348 , d57rf68g.png )

>>1843
Why would you not care about working people?
theyre cannibals who cuck themselves and each other as per their routine thats why
>Most prostitutes are poor and aren't really doing it cause they want to.
fuk em, figuratively and literally
>>

 No.1845

>>1843
>working people
lumpenproletariat, there's a difference

I believe social inclusion and social programs giving what the person needs such as a free house, food, property, free health care, etc etc, basically literally everything needed for the person to live independently and with dignity(but only if they agree on doing certain stuff such as getting vaccinated, getting education(straight up teach them communism in school), becoming workers with the help of the government and etc etc) would solve the issue. but on capitalism… it will be hard to implement.
>Should prostition be illegal?
they should get prohibited from doing prostitution and get rehabilitated. there will be no lumpenproletariat under my rule.
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 No.1850

>>1845
>Power fantasy
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 No.1851

Western communists aren't all stunted childults who want the state to take over the role of paren—
>>1845
—ACK
>>

 No.1863

>>1851
a government should also take care of the people, and not simply just "govern". you Americans never had that huh
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 No.1865

>>1863
Ya. We're not natural born bug people
>I want someone to take care of me
Sounds so womanly and childish
Also sounds like talking about any shithole Mediterranean-spawned community that's controlled by a mafia
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 No.1866

>>1502
The exact opposite of this would be the least degenerate configuration
>The only job a woman can have is as a prostitute. Otherwise, it's illegal for her to work independently or own property.
I believe most women would actually be happier this way.
>>

 No.1874

>>1845lumpen proletariat are still proletariat. They have nothing to sell but their labor power. I think prostitution should be illegal, but, it's pretty idealist to think you can solve the issue by "rehabilitating" people when the issues are socio-economic.
>>

 No.1897

>>1874
>it's pretty idealist to think you can solve the issue by "rehabilitating" people when the issues are socio-economic.
True, my bad. just noticed it also sounds more like a torture session if anything.
>>

 No.1898

>>1502
>Should prostition be illegal?
are you fucking retarded?

obviously prostitution should be a state provided service, just like healthcare
>>

 No.1899

>>1898
uygha you gotta bentrollin'
>>

 No.1901

>>1899
what?

give me one reason why the state shouldn't provide a public prostitution service

>inb4 it's degrading

they would be paid far more than your average ass considering the full employment and education opportunities

public attitude would also change accordingly as everyone would understand that prostitutes provide a socially necessary service

they would also be protected by the state against any abuse and obviously could reject their clients

the only case when you don't have a public prostitution service in a developed socialist society is when political superstructure is dominated by a small group of social conservatives
which I highly doubt that such a society could reach a "developed" stage before it implodes on itself in a political crisis
>>

 No.1904

>>1901
>public attitude would also change accordingly as everyone would understand that prostitutes provide a socially necessary service
think of something like hetairai and geishas

they were frequently appreciated as human beings far more than their domestic tradwife counterparts
>>

 No.1905

>>1901
I think that in a socialist system nothing would prevent you from bartering material goods for sex.
But turning the state into a pimp, that's not going to work, there's no way you'll be able to keep that institution from going bad and turning into a human trafficking pit.
>>

 No.1906

>>1905
>But turning the state into a pimp, that's not going to work, there's no way you'll be able to keep that institution from going bad and turning into a human trafficking pit.
How is it being a pimp if the state doesn't do it for profit, retard?

What fucking trafficking, retard? Prostitutes would be state employees just like nurses and doctors.
>>

 No.1907

>>1901
>>1906
Tfw guys with zero social skills think they have good ideas about how society should be ran
>>

 No.1909

>>1907
why yes, we should ban an activity that existed all throughout human societies, including ussr, thus leaving it to the criminal organized groups, instead of the state taking care of it and actually making prostitutes respectable members of society that get educated in arts, singing, dancing and other activities that elite prostitutes throughout history were usually educated in.
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 No.1910

Also why socialist society should have a public prostitution service is that it allows for better control over the spread of STDs with mandatory continuous testing, protection, consulting, education, healthcare, etc.

I've been to brothels before and the conditions were utterly miserable, girls didn't know the very basics of sexual protection (don't use mineral oils with latex condoms), condoms frequently broke, girls were apathetic, tired and overworked.

The simple rule that a client should be continuously tested the week before he can engage with a prostitute would already make wonders for the control of STDs.
>>

 No.1911

>>1910
>a client should be continuously tested the week before
or even better make it a month
>>

 No.1912

>>1906
>>1909
You're a turbo-lib that tries to change things by changing the titles of things.
What you'll end up doing is taking a pimp and giving em state-power. Which is going to be used for doing pimp stuff. They catch people and trap them in a terrible life-situation that beats people into submission until they'll surrender their bodies.

It's got nothing to do with liberating anybody, it's liberal ideology that people with money ought to be able to rent the bodies of others. You're just trying to shoehorn that liberal ideology into socialism.

And the argument that this activity has existed throughout human societies is an argument that was also deployed to oppose the abolition of slavery. Prostitution is terrible, and the fact that it's been around for a long time doesn't change this one bit.

Socialist ideology is clear you don't try to monetize or commodify human intimacy.

You can still have an informal gift economy or barter economy to trade sex for desirable objects, that's harmless because it doesn't need any organizational power/control over people. So you see there's no ban on anything it's just that you won't be able to institutionalize it.
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 No.1913

>>1910
>The simple rule that a client should be continuously tested the week before he can engage with a prostitute would already make wonders for the control of STDs.
Now that I think about it, prostitutes in general should be trained as sexual health professionals as be a part of the overall healthcare system.
>>

 No.1914

>>1910
Or we could just have quality public health/sex-education, and skip the hole prostitution business.
You know you can teach girls what lube goes well with rubbers without forcing them into prostitution.
>>

 No.1916

>>1912
>You're a turbo-lib
>says a lib sperg that cries about how big guberment could never do anything right
nah sperg, government going stuff is way better than some petty bourg "gift economy"

>What you'll end up doing is taking a pimp and giving em state-power. Which is going to be used for doing pimp stuff. They catch people and trap them in a terrible life-situation that beats people into submission until they'll surrender their bodies.

>BIG GUBERMENT WILL ENSLAVE YOU!!
You could say the same thing about any government institution.
Socialist government should be public and open to scrutiny.

Again, how can socialist government be a pimp when the economy is planned?

>It's got nothing to do with liberating anybody, it's liberal ideology that people with money ought to be able to rent the bodies of others.

IT'S WOULD BE PROVIDED AS A PUBLIC SERVICE. WHAT RENT RETARD?

>Prostitution is terrible, and the fact that it's been around for a long time doesn't change this one bit.

I don't care about your moral outrage. I personally think your lib whining is terrible.

>Socialist ideology is clear you don't try to monetize or commodify human intimacy.

A PUBLIC SERVICE. WHAT MONETIZATION RETARD?

>You can still have an informal gift economy or barter economy to trade sex for desirable objects

and this absolute anarchoid retard has a nerve to tell me anything about socialism lol

>that's harmless because it doesn't need any organizational power/control over people.

socialism is when the government owns everything and plans everything

you can kindly fuck off with your shit anarchoid takes
>>

 No.1918

>>1914
>You know you can teach girls what lube goes well with rubbers without forcing them into prostitution.
It's not about teaching girls, retard.

It's about controlling public health, sexual life, relieving social tensions and building social cohesion.

Sweeping it under the rug of the "gift economy" of "market will magically solve it, just leave people alone" is not gonna cut it.

Prostitution is a social phenomenon that existed through all modes of production.
Socialist society through its government should destigmatize prostitution and deal this phenomenon in the open. It should act neither as a puritan England nor as a decadent sexualized capitalist USA.

Socialist society shouldn't listen to some retarded idpolled anarchoid lib spergs who are always whining about everything.
>>

 No.1919

>>1918
>It's about controlling public health, sexual life, relieving social tensions and building social cohesion.
oh, it's also about controlling embryonic capitalist elements in the form of organized crime.
>>

 No.1920

>>1916
What's this to you. ?
The only people who get this upset about socialists wanting to abolish prostitution tend to be liberals that get angry when you suggest that rich people shouldn't be able to use money to rent the bodies of poor people. You have not given me a reason to assume that isn't your motivation.

>A PUBLIC SERVICE

Currently 90% of prostitutes only do it because they are forced into it, usually it's economic coercion but there's a lot of human trafficking too. You can objectively measure how it's destroying people.

If you have a socialist society where everybody can pursue a regular job without getting exploited, you're not going to find many volunteers for this. How can you hope to turn this into a public service if you won't find any applicants ? You do realize that once a socialist economy has been fully established, people will get payed according to labor-time, you'll only be able to give people extra bonus payments if people vote to have their income taxed in order to fund these bonuses.

As far as socialist economics goes, prostitution doesn't count as productive labor, because it doesn't produce a non-ethereal effect in the form of a tangible good or a service that has a permanently lasting beneficial effect, like a medical service that permanently cures an ailment. So all the bean counters that try to optimize the economy they wouldn't want to divert human labor to this either, because other activities will be better at societal wealth-accumulation.

Socialist theory considers prostitution as alienated social relation. I think you are trying to insert liberalism into socialism.

Level with me, why are you pushing for this ?
>>

 No.1921

>>1918
>It's about controlling public health, sexual life
Yeah we'll leave health to people who understand biology and medicine, and of course the patients that get their health adjusted, injecting politics into health is a terrible idea.
We're not going to control the sex-life of people either, you know other than banning pedophile-crap, bestiality and so on.
You just made more arguments against your idea.

>relieving social tensions and building social cohesion.

You think you're going to relieve social tensions and create cohesion by forcing women into public sex duty?
Are you kidding me ?

>Prostitution is a social phenomenon that existed through all modes of production.

Nope that's not a valid argument, so far slavery has also existed in all modes of production other than the socialist mode of production.

>Socialist society through its government should destigmatize prostitution and deal this phenomenon in the open.

This is an archetypal argument of liberals that do not want to change the status quo in it's substance only seeking to change the appearances.
>>

 No.1925

>>1920
>What's this to you. ?
I just understand the importance of prostitution as a social regulating mechanism.

>when you suggest that rich people shouldn't be able to use money to rent the bodies of poor people

we're talking about democratic socialism here, so no rich people or entrenched unaccountable bureaucrats

>Currently 90% of prostitutes only do it because they are forced into it, usually it's economic coercion but there's a lot of human trafficking too. You can objectively measure how it's destroying people.

Yes, I told you I've been to brothels, and can see that they are doing it not because of the happy life.

>If you have a socialist society where everybody can pursue a regular job without getting exploited, you're not going to find many volunteers for this. How can you hope to turn this into a public service if you won't find any applicants ? You do realize that once a socialist economy has been fully established, people will get payed according to labor-time, you'll only be able to give people extra bonus payments if people vote to have their income taxed in order to fund these bonuses.

Bingo. That's precisely why prostitution would be not exploitative in socialism.

People would need to democratically decide that prostitution is a necessary social service and so agree to deduce some surplus for it just like they would deduce it for healthcare services or any other unproductive but necessary social activity.

You would find applicants by paying them more than average, providing various bonuses like housing, vacations, increasing prestige of the profession, de-stigmatizing the activity, and making prostitution more than just about sexual intercourse. It should be about public sexual health and socialization.
It also should be made clear that a prostitute is a valuable educated professional that costed society many hundreds of thousands of labor hours to produce.

>As far as socialist economics goes, prostitution doesn't count as productive labor, because it doesn't produce a non-ethereal effect in the form of a tangible good or a service that has a permanently lasting beneficial effect, like a medical service that permanently cures an ailment.

ok theorylet, medical services aren't considered as productive in marxist theory

you should maybe google how USSR divided its industries among productive/unproductive in its plans

why is it always uneducated brainlets who are arguing against me?

>So all the bean counters that try to optimize the economy they wouldn't want to divert human labor to this either, because other activities will be better at societal wealth-accumulation.

We'll leave this decision to the democratic socialist society, ok? We're talking about a developed and wealthy socialist society here, not a yesterday's feudal state.

>Socialist theory considers prostitution as alienated social relation.

If we're talking about classical marxism then it was primarily concerned with domestic prostitution under a patriarchal family, not prostitution as a millennia-spanning social phenomenon.

And if we're talking about post-modern feminist "theory" then it has very little to do with actual marxism.

And lets not even talk about modern idpolled "theory" lol
>>

 No.1927

>>1921
>Yeah we'll leave health to people who understand biology and medicine, and of course the patients that get their health adjusted, injecting politics into health is a terrible idea.
yes, social sexual health has nothing to do with politics lol

>We're not going to control the sex-life of people either

<Except for all the cases where we are
I would leave it to the socialist society to decide what it wants and doesn't want to control, lib

>You think you're going to relieve social tensions and create cohesion by forcing women into public sex duty? Are you kidding me ?

Maybe you should go check your eyesight or your head mate, you seem to be struggling with comprehending simple sentences.

>This is an archetypal argument of liberals that do not want to change the status quo in it's substance only seeking to change the appearances.

You telling me that liberals advocate for a public prostitution service run by the government?

I'm pretty sure liberals want to keep prostitution out of the public sight exactly because of the same reasons as you.

After all, modern feminist theory is one of the points of convergence for leftoid and libs.
>>

 No.1928

File: 1679161179872.jpeg ( 263.89 KB , 618x359 , stfu_lib.jpeg )

>>1898
bruh just get some bitches irl. basic social skills required.
It will only waste resources of what the state should actually be doing, such as investing in education, health, public transport, quality of water people drink, social inclusion, investing on the poor participating in the economy, etc etc etc etc.
this is also bad because, the least state you have, the more fash police you'll need/or have consequentially.
and doing that will just shrink the state and waste its resources into things that won't help make people live better. thus requiring more police, since the state won't be doing its part anymore to maintain order by making everything good for people.
and we all know what police actually do to people in secret
torture. fuck the police. and no, it's not 'police brutality' americans, call it by the real name, i.e. torture.
>>1920
exactly, well said!
>>

 No.1929

>>1928
>bruh just get some bitches irl. basic social skills required.
it's not about individuals "getting bitches"

it's about social phenomena
many married men also go to prostitutes

>It will only waste resources of what the state should actually be doing, such as investing in education, health, public transport, quality of water people drink, social inclusion, investing on the poor participating in the economy, etc etc etc etc.

Again. We are talking about a wealthy society with already high standard of living.

If it decides that it needs public prostitutes, who are you to stop them?

>this is also bad because, the least state you have, the more fash police you'll need/or have consequentially.

what? how is more government means more police, retard?

>and doing that will just shrink the state and waste its resources into things that won't help make people live better. thus requiring more police, since the state won't be doing its part anymore to maintain order by making everything good for people.

what the fuck are you even talking about you absolute brainlet? what "order"?

>and we all know what police actually do to people in secret

police most likely would be some conscripted service or just drones
>>

 No.1930

>ussr
<productive/unproductive

thats a nice one
>>

 No.1931

>>1930
what, you didn't know that soviet economists divided all the industries into productive and unproductive? lol
>>

 No.1934

>>1930
According to the classification of branches of the national economy adopted in the USSR, all branches of the national economy were divided into two spheres: the sphere of material production and the non-production sphere[51].

The following branches of the national economy belonged to the sphere of material production:

Industry
Agriculture
Forestry
Fisheries
Transport and communications
Construction
Trade and catering
Logistics and supplies
blanks
Information and technical service
Operations with real estate
General commercial activities to ensure the functioning of the market
Geology and exploration of subsoil, geodetic and hydrometeorological services
Other activities in the sphere of material production

The following sectors of the national economy and activities were classified as non-production sphere:

Department of Housing and Utilities
Non-productive types of consumer services for the population
Health, physical culture and social security
public education
Culture and art
Science and scientific service
Finance, credit, insurance, pensions
Management
Public associations
Extraterritorial organizations and bodies
>>

 No.1935

>>1557
Read a fucking book you moron. A commodity is something that is *produced* to be exchanged at market for a profit. Women do not produce their vaginas they are born with them.

>>1549


>No, it is what defines the mean of production. For fuck's sake, can you at least keep up with your own bullshit?


>Karl marx literally defines proletariat as those with nothing to sell but their own labor power


>Dumb ass anarkiddies cope and seethe over it.


Also in order to define sex as a commodity you would also have to define women as productive forces.

>You made a claim about the means of production, and that's what the means of production are. Look, you being unable to keep up with your own iditotic points is not an argument.


But women are none of those things you fucking dumb faggot, lmao, holy shit. You aren't even making an argument here and still you arrogantly project that you are correct because you are a simp infested with feminist ideology. Jesus Christ, pigeon chess…

People are not means of production. Read literally any economic text book.

>Source?


Have you been on the internet recently?

>Another term you don't understand


Another argument you have not made.

>hat is 100% what it is


Do you not understand what "production" means?

>You have no argument, and you lose.


Whatever helps you sleep at night transhumanist.
>>

 No.1936

>>1558
They have never clearly read any economic text, or, marx for that matter and yet they want to prance around the thread like they know what they are talking aboult. Hilarious.

The major issue with behavior like this is it confuses people into believing things that aren't true who don't know any better.
>>

 No.1937

>>1839
>Why? For many young and healthy men it's the only way they can get sex due to the way things are at the moment.
>>1839
>Why? For many young and healthy men it's the only way they can get sex due to the way things are at the moment.
>>1839
>Why? For many young and healthy men it's the only way they can get sex due to the way things are at the moment.


You really need to read marx and stop getting your ideology from "leftist" tumblr.
>>

 No.1938

>>1929
Prostitution also degrades social foundations and com modifies relationships between people. No prostitution is fucking gross.
>>

 No.1939

>>1938
>Prostitution also degrades social foundations
only when it's done for profit

>and com modifies relationships between people

you repeating this like a broken record doesn't make it true

what "commodification" in a planned economy?
was healthcare "commodified" in ussr too?
>>

 No.1940

>>1938
>NOOOO! PROSTITUTION BY ITSELF IS GROSS! IT JUST IS OKAY!
<*tips 100$ on onlyfans*
the curious peculiarities of an over-sexualized puritan capitalist mind

there is nothing inherently wrong with prostitution as a social activity

no, it's not "degrading" if it's provided as a public service

it's only "degrading" in your mind because of your puritan biases, just like sex itself was "degrading" to people like you a couple of centuries ago
>>

 No.1941

>>1936
Do you have an argument?
>>

 No.1943

>>1910
>>1925
>I've been to a brothel before
I find it so hard to take you seriously simply for this reason. What is wrong with you?
>>

 No.1944

>>1939
>Here's your 2 minute handjob ration for the month, comrade
>>

 No.1945

>>1943
>What is wrong with you?
What? Where do you think an ugly male is supposed to get sex?

>>1944
Better than 0 minutes lol. Tho I was thinking more about going on a date than just sex.
>>

 No.1946

>>1945
Hopefully a hot and feminine but smart wife. That's the sort of socialism I want.
>>

 No.1947

>>1941
Yes retard

>>1935

It's right here feel free to respond
>>

 No.1948

>>1939
If your talking about a higher stage of communism prostitution won't exist specifically because there is not commodity production.

READ UYGHA READ
>>

 No.1949

>>1945
Define ugly; I have literally no front teeth and I pull some pretty hot bitches.
>>

 No.1950

>>1948
>If your talking about a higher stage of communism prostitution won't exist specifically because there is not commodity production.
Nah.
It will exist if the society decides it so.

>>1949
>Define ugly
not sexually attractive

>I have literally no front teeth and I pull some pretty hot bitches.

Well, and I don't pull any. So it's prostitution for me.

Anyway, your personal tangent is irrelevant to the point I was making. I'm not here to discuss my sexual life.
>>

 No.1951

File: 1679257319174-0.jpg ( 281.02 KB , 1080x1053 , IMG_20230320_031944.jpg )

File: 1679257319174-1.jpg ( 284.71 KB , 1080x1314 , IMG_20230320_031911.jpg )

Mao also understood that under socialism, women are property of the working class via the proletarian state.
>>

 No.1952

>>1947
I don't see a relevant argument.
>>

 No.1953

>>1950
Nah.
It will exist if the society decides it so.


How will it exist if markets do not exist for exchanges to be made?
>>

 No.1954

>>1952
Yeah ok, whatever you say.
>>

 No.1955

File: 1679261753969.jpeg ( 33.97 KB , 612x612 , tfw brainlet leftoid.jpeg )

>>1953
>How will it exist if markets do not exist for exchanges to be made?
Maybe you should read a couple of posts above to find out..
>>

 No.1957

>>1955
>Bro just like read the thread.

I started this thread faggot.
>>

 No.1962

U all theorylets.

Productive labor produces time-durable goods that are not consumed immediately as they are produced.

So prostitute is not productive, but a porn actress is.
>>

 No.1963

>>1962
Armaments industry makes time-durable goods, but it is not productive.
>>

 No.1964

>>1963
Ok smartass, that is the only exception because it produces means of destruction.
>>

 No.1965

>>1964
Cope.

Porn industry produces means of moral destruction.
>>

 No.1966

>>1965
Holy shit spooked retard. Means of CAPITAL destruction. "Morals" are not capital.
>>

 No.1967

>>1962
source: missing
proof: none
>>

 No.1968

>>1967
Read a book niqqa
>>

 No.1972

>>1967
learn about what surplus means and then use your one last brain cell to deduce what it would mean to accumulate surplus and what type of constraints this accumulation process would impose on the time-dimensional characteristics of said surplus
>>

 No.1973

File: 1679328562546.webm ( 1.56 MB , 1920x1080 , 1674440196080558.webm )

>>1972
>organic fruit only lasts two days
>therefore it is impossible for organic grocery stores to accumulate surplus for more than two days
holy shit, you have never read marx, have you?
the point of a commodity is that:
1. society finds it useful (use value)
2. it represents labor (value)
3. can be, and was meant to be, traded (exchange value)
the "durability" or some other physical characteristic of the particular commodity is irrelevant for the purpose of accumulation. this is to say, because of point (3), you can trade an ephemeral commodity (the organic fruit) for a durable commodity, gold for example
>>

 No.1974

>>1966
Normally I agree with this but pornography and such has turned out society into a superficial nightmare where people are commodities and any meaningful relationships have been destroyed. So no fuck porn. Amateur porn isn't so bad but industry porn should be illegal
>>

 No.1975

File: 1679345949621.jpeg ( 144.62 KB , 1280x720 , lmao.jpeg )

>>1973
>organic fruit only lasts two days
time-durability doesn't mean that it is time indefinite retard

it only means that the product of labor can exist separated from a direct producer for SOME PERIOD OF TIME

>holy shit, you have never read marx, have you?

I've read marx, I just don't agree with everything he said

>1. society finds it useful (use value)

>2. it represents labor (value)
>3. can be, and was meant to be, traded (exchange value)
So… ultimately what you're saying is that if something turns a profit - it is productive? I got you fam..

gambling "service" has a "use value" to gamblers and it turns a hefty profit

Ergo - gambling is productive!
Behold! The superiority of dogmoid Marxism!
>>

 No.1976

>>1975
No you haven't. This isn't about agreements but you must explain why you disagree with how Marx defined a commodity and why you think you have a better interpretation.
>>

 No.1978

>>1976
>you disagree with how Marx defined a commodity
define what kind of "commodity" gambling industry is selling

bring one example of a "commodity" that is not time-durable
>>

 No.1979

>>1978
Here's a wild thought.

Maybe an 18th century author shouldn't be the final word on understanding the dynamics of the 21st century economy
>>

 No.1981

>>1979
yes, instead the final word should belong to the 19th century author..
>>

 No.1982

>>1981
<Nah bro. Capitalism evolved after Marx.

Lenin summarized this development in 'Imperialism, the highest stage of capitalism.'

Since then, it hasn't evolved at all.

Hence, that's the final word on political economy.
>>

 No.1991

>>1978
The gambling industry isn't selling a commodity faggot wtf are you dumb?
That's the whole point. It's called fictional capital or in modern economics: Speculation. Everything Marx said is still applicable today and you aren't witty or edgy for thinking otherwise.
>>

 No.2007

>>1991
>Everything Marx said is applicable today, except a huge chunk of the modern economy doesn't fit into his description of capitalism as a system based on the production of commodities
Makes sense
>>

 No.2029

>>2007
>Gambling is a huge chunk of the modern economy.
You have to go back.
>>

 No.2030

>>2007
He does gambling not 'fit' into what he said? Lmao.
>>

 No.6642

no, also it is already legal in the case of most monogamous, heterosexual marriages

it is also completely unprosecuted-by-choice in the case of sugar babies on websites like seeking arrangements

the entire reason seekingarrangements isn't prosecuted but prostitution is is just an attack on casual sex, that's it. some judges even explicitly admit to this in rulings.
>>

 No.6643

also soliciting camgirls nominally breaks solicitation of adult sex in numerous US states, especially when 2 women are on the other end performing sex acts. I am not aware of a single male ever getting arrested for soliciting virtual prostitution without trafficking involved, even though it is nominally illegal
>>

 No.6644

>>6643
and by virtual prostitution I mean paying two women across the global to have sex on cam, and those women being free agents who chose to sell their services

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