/anime_backup/ - Old Anime board

Congratulations, you've discovered the consumerist waifuism that has been a staple of weebs for at least a decade.

>>2656
I don't think it's correct to say I've discovered it just now, I just never articulated it this thoroughly. Katawa Shoujo came out in 2012 after all.

>>2654
Is this a copypasta? "Tomboy" is just an umbrella term. In Japan, it means a girl who is brash and noisy, so even the Japanese will not consider if a character is a tomboy like you do.

you're entitled to an opinion, but you sound as much a fetishist as the ones you criticized

>>2667
Tomboy as a definition is a girl who behaves like a boy. Toph Bei Fong is an example of a tomboy character.

>>2671
Is Ritsu a tomboy?

>>2675
Yes, although it's strange that she hangs out with girls all day.

>>2670
There is a distinction between liking girls with stereotypical male qualities and being obsessed over "tomboys". I don't post in "tomboy" threads on 4chan circlejerking with my reactionary buddies how I want to turn a "tomboy" into a traditional housewife.

What about Miyako? Is she tomboy?

>>2678
>"tomboy" threads on 4chan circlejerking with my reactionary buddies how I want to turn a "tomboy" into a traditional housewife.
Golly I've this pal of mine that's all about this stupid shit via secondhand 4chan through Insta.

"uHhHH uhhh I wanna biG MOMMY MILKY TOMBOY GF at the GYM bro,
because girly girls aren't for me yaeah I prefer her to act more MANLY (uhh but not in a gay way though).
BUT SHE HAS TO BE SUBMISSIVE IN BED THOUGH.
Also I wanna IMPREGNATE her with my SEED to carry on the race.
And she'd better have long hair."

This recent fetishistic conception of "tomboyism" has lost quite literally all of its meaning,
this sublimely fetishistic object of absolute desire no longer bears any semblance of resemblance to neither the physical traits nor the characteristic traits of what one would consider to be a "tomboy."
A bigtiddy girl who acts otherwise girly but stays in shape and goes to the gym is just that, a bigtiddy girl who acts otherwise girly but stays in shape and goes to the gym.

>>2692
I think its a side effect of these things being reinforced by online echo chambers instead of actual reality. Instead of the fetishes being tempered by encounters with real people we instead of them being reinforced with other peoples fetishistic ramblings which causes them to further degenerate into a version that is further and further divorced from reality.

I don't think it necessarily has to do with sexual fetishism. It became a fad and like everything that becomes a fad it has been reduced to its most superficial qualities. In reality "tomboy" is a broad idea with many potential variations but for the sake of marketing there must be an easily applied "stock tomboy" formula. All the same, this formula can't be too different from standard tastes or it becomes too niche and thus sells less. Because of this the "tomboy" becomes just another way to dress up the generic female character, and must not deviate from the standard functions that character is expected to serve even if the appeal of the trope lies precisely in those deviations. The end result is characters who look like tomboys but cannot act too much like tomboys.
Finally, people like us who want purer forms of the content have it increasingly hard because it gets buried under an avalanche of fakes.
That said
>>2692
>because girly girls aren't for me yaeah I prefer her to act more MANLY (uhh but not in a gay way though).
BUT SHE HAS TO BE SUBMISSIVE IN BED THOUGH.
I defend this. You can't control what your penis wants, it's independent from your romantic desires. In fact, isn't that part of the point of this thread? The character archetype should be separated from its sexual implications, or it just becomes another fetish.
Your friend still sounds like an autist though, who posts shit like this on Instagram? No offense.

>>2698
Yeah I too am similarly guilty of liking big tits on tomboys but to be fair I don't associate big tits with tomboys like those people I just like big tits in general and I assume the same is for you, you don't associate tomboys with sexual submissiveness but rather you like sexual submissiveness in general which I think would exclude us from the kind of people that anon was talking about who specifically associate "tomboys" with these things.
>>2690
I haven't watched her anime but from the wikia description I read, yes.

I have a friend who would never in a million years touch a tomboy with a ten feet pole yet his self-proclaimed waifu is Kyoko Kirigiri; my friend has a fetish (in the true sense of the word) for long hair. My friend fell into the similar trap as described in the OP but coming from the non-tomboy fetishism direction, "I like long hair and I don't like tomboys and long hair does not belong on a tomboy ergo Kyoko Kirigiri is not a tomboy." Let's examine the character of Kyoko Kirigiri.

Kyoko Kirigiri comes from a lineage of legendary detectives with a strict tradition. Her father refused to become a detective and was disowned by the family. Her mother died when she was young. She was raised by her grandfather who from her earliest days trained her to become a detective because he desired a successor which his son was not. He was very strict with her, keeping her socially sheltered, and as a result Kyoko became antisocial. He raised her to believe that her only worth was as a detective which caused her identity issues. So already at the start we have the trope of the (strict) father (or grandfather in this case) who treats his (grand)daughter as his (grand)son to compensate for the lack of a (worthy) (grand)son.

Kyoko is assertive, analytical, bold, emotionally reserved, antisocial and confused about her identity (the conflict between the metaphorically male way of life imposed on her vs her female self who is the spawn of a failed man).

About the only girly thing about Kyoko, ignoring her appearance, is that she has the old-fashioned preference for men doing physical work. That's it.

Tomboy, if we are not referring to some shallow usage? Absolutely.

>>2698
>Your friend still sounds like an autist though, who posts shit like this on Instagram? No offense.
He doesn't post the stuff, he's just into accounts like 'fit_memes_and_greentexts' and 'barbells_and_anime_milkers,' and he'll share me shit like picsrel in dms.
And he'll also say shit like that irl.
AND he'll also unironically, wholly seriously say shit like "I want to have back muscles like baki's dad's bro."
Really shows me that the raw ideology of 4chan proliferates in its undiluted form with no need for someone to even touch the site.
But that's a bit of vent

>>2702
These images make me want to vomit.

Reminder that being dorky/awkward is not something expected of men. I have no idea how dorky/awkward tomboys became a thing.

Yeah, it's almost like gender isn't immune to cultural change.

>>2713
In what universe is being spergy a masculine quality? Not that it's a feminine quality either (but of course it's more tolerated in women). It's "third gender" material. Tomboys aren't girls who act like this hypothetical "third gender".

>>2714

…dude, have you been on any corner of the internet that isn't a chan board lately?

where do you think that SMOL BEAN CINNAMON ROLL UWU shit comes from

Nowadays """tomboy""" = random anime girl with short hair.

Stop being attracted to fucking walking tropes, holy shit.

>>2715
So?

>>2718
People have types, anon.

>>2714
Overbearingly heavy interest in niche things is a masculine interest which is also spergy but its not fetishised remotely.

>>2779
Well that wasn't the way I was using spergy, more in the "mom's spaghetti" sense (awkward/dorky as mentioned).

Unrelated, have another tomboy that is never called one: Shirase Sakuya from Idolmaster. If you google "Shirase Sakuya tomboy" you will find precisely zero results.

>>2852
>Shirase Sakuya tomboy
Huh… I tried that and its true sorta.
The only character listed as tomboy on TVTropes was Juri Saijo

>>2863
No, go back to the Yuri thread you horny bitch

>>2654
Excellent effortpost, we should strive to make all character more than cardboard cutouts of the trope they represent.

>>2863
I imagine if she was a character in a shoujo yuri romance she would be the assertive reverse trap with a prince-like charm.
>>2856
See, she counts as a tomboy but Shirase doesn't? Is it literally because one has short hair and the other doesn't like in the OP? That's insultingly superficial.

>>2884
tf does this mean

>>2703
Those images >>2702 make me want to coom

>>4220
It's pretty obvious, The Yuri-fag looking for Yuri in a relatively straight Tomboy thread ought to go back to their Yuri thread… that's pretty obvious yes?

>>4623
and what's your shitty tired archetype of choice anon?

I always thought that tomboy had an association with being particularly sporty though? At least most tomboys in the west were generally speaking into sports in some capacity.
If there is one trope that I hate is making generally thin characters fatter.

>>2675
>>2690
Is mayonnaise a tomboy?

>>4287
No Patrick, Mayonnaise is not a tomboy

>>4287
Horseradish is also not a tomboy either

>>4287
Why must you mock me?

>When I was a [b]wee lad[/b] I read Katawa Shoujo
I was 26 when that shit came out. The world hasn't been "normal" since 2000 everyhing has been devoid of meaning, substance, and honesty for 20 years. Zoomers grew up in the worst time and I regret that has happened, all you guys know is shit.
jfc I need to die.

>>4304
>The world hasn't been "normal" since 2000
Fuck off, Shit in the 90s and 2000s was fucking great compared the past decade of sheer faggotry.

>>4304
>35 y.o. boomer
Are you Jerma?

oh no that sucks

>>4563
It does indeed

>>2654
Speaking of Gyaru, thread >>639

>>2675
No, she is just extroverted and unaware of her surroundings. Tard confidence/charm if you will

>>2690
No way

bump

>>6444
nice quads but why

>>6448
Because I like this thread
Is there any character archetype theory I could read that's a bit more serious than TVTropes? I find this sort of stuff fascinating

This is one of the most anglo threads I have ever seen.

bump

>>8187
While that woman is overly sexualized, I'd say she's still kind of a tomboy because she seems to act and dress like a guy except for the sexy top. So Coomer's kinda right.
Coomer's friend is pretty hot, he reminds me of Kaneoya Sachiko's guy(s).

>>8187
> Boobs too big
Holy based

>>8187
>>8187
>>8187
>>8187
That's not Cockshott by there.

>>8187
Been Wo jackin it looks like lol

Being passionate about physical activity isn't really being a tomboy. She didn't come off like a tomboy to me

>>2702
God, I hate this new fad of "big milker lifter tomboy for trad men". It seems like they didn't like the original tradwife thing because it was too "unreachable", so they butchered another concept so they could have something to circlejerk and fantasize about.
That account is the one I hate the most, though. It feels like watching Japanese host TV; an overdose of visual and written stimulus, begging you to get engaged and to do what the account wants you to do.
Do they lace their posts with some new virtual drug or something? Wait, that drug is called hornyness. I could keep venting about how much I hate this surface-level "tomboy" fad, but I'd prefer to prevent other character types from becoming fads, like the "introverted aspie girl" that seems to be gaining traction thanks to those Youtube meme comps.
>>2693
basically this. the worst part is that some women are also playing on these online-fueled shallow fetishes, so it gives the new hoards of newcorners "hope", only spreading this shit even further. I like manly girls and lifting, but I despise this nu-tomboy and /fit/ culture mix.

>>2703
based. Most artists that draw tomboys nowadays seem to only do it to get attention, and well, the only kind of tomboy people seem to know is the one that is being beaten like a dead horse, like >>2702 . The worst part is that this isn't just an anglo-exclusive fad, as it's rapidly spreading into the third world, and you know how easy (reactionary) third worlders will swallow whatever trend comes from the US and then beat it even more. Also, more cumbrain and thought-dead reactionary Latino shad clones will appear to join the fad, looking for those sweet reactions and anglo fame.
One used to have a type thanks to the people you had met and the experiences you had with them, nowadays most teens (and not so teens) seem to get their types from internet overdose, going from a gold rush into another gold rush. What will happen when these "(nu)tomboy"/"catboy"/"egirl"/"tradwife"/whatever fads die? Will they develop actual tastes and likes, or will they just join another circlejerk that inundates the rest of the internet?

>>8677
Based anon, I totally agree with you. I feel that Latin American artists also eat the scraps of Anglo internet fads because it's profitable, whether they do it consciously or not.

Also, aren't tomboys supposed to be girls who do things or have a personality that is unexpected of girls, including an aversion or disinterest in romance. The appeal used to be that they're "not like the other girls", so why would a fit girl with massive, partially exposed tits who is willing to become a sweet tradwife to the first coomer that crosses their path be a tomboy? Jesus, the tits alone are a massive contradiction, because it's obvious that such feminine body is the main appeal to these people, not the boyishness. So, ok, you like fit girls who are feminine on the inside, and that's all you need to fall in love with such a character. But that's like the opposite of a tomboy, who by definition must be masculine on the inside.

>>2779
>its not fetishised remotely.
lmao
Besides what should be the well-known fact that everything and everyone is someone's fetish, both "spergy, overbearingly heavy interest in niche things" and "awkward/dorky" are massively popular traits.

>>8677
>I'd prefer to prevent other character types from becoming fads
Respectable, but ultimately even those archetypes that don't become trends will fall prey to universal moefication. All anime women will eventually be reduced to easily embarrassed, subservient, barely functional, childish autists, distinguished only by superficial traits dedicated to fetishistic appeal. Terrifying collages of huge eyes, melon-sized tits and childlike shrieking will roam the land and to great applause, because Miyazaki's much memed-about point was ultimately correct: anime fans and creators hate reality and can take nothing from it; with a few exceptions, anime has no path forward but to exaggerate itself.
And then we'll be forced to get real girlfriends.

>>8687
The average weeb lives in constant contradiction not only about his superficial likes, but also about his identity. So you can expect them to not know what they really want. No amount of Barbells or reps will make you actually think why you love telling everyone that you have this cool new fetish, or what it might be reflecting from yourself. Do they want a gender role non-conforming girl, or they just want someone to love them that isn't "like the rest of thots" and more like a mail bride?
Also, how 3rd world (specially SEA/Latino) artists are the ones that fuel these stupid Anglo/USian fetish gold rushes could be another post on itself. Have you heard of "I'm not like the other girls?" Then well, this is what happens on most art communities from developing countries.
Thousands of loner boys and girls fed with no-context badly translated reactionary BS from the west, get bashed or banned from bigger and more liberal leaning artist groups because of their shallow art that rides on the latest trend from those videos (like """"cancelled""" characters), and then they join communities (or better said, circlejerks) where they can post their "cool" art and be rewarded with praises, and how they're so counterculture for drawing degen shit. They're all no-substance copies of Shadman or whatever the cool artist of the year is, and the only reason they do "art" is because they're looking for reactions. And when they learn english… Oh boy.
Many of them have zero sense of identity too, and usually think of their local art scene as "leftist/commie/liberal/sjw trash", never even try to learn a thing about their country's artistic history, so the only thing they know is their own interpretation of how Japanese art is supposed to be, and that's what they wanna do. No thoughts behind it. They can't reason, they can't accept criticism, as they've lived on a circlejerk their whole lives, so they'll be doing the same shit every single day until their safe space "falls down" (or just gets people that are into drawing what they like but aren't into the circlejerk)

>>8692
Sadly. It's hard to look at most anime communities when you're growing up mentally, as it seems like most of them try to push you downwards, going trend after trend "with the boys", telling on how you're not able to get any puss or female affection not because you're an insufferable twat but because you prefer not to talk to "normies", etcetera. I think Dragon Maid's new season, for example, is a good example of
>with a few exceptions, anime has no path forward but to exaggerate itself
and how braindead anime fans will defend this because they have no critical thought but rather a shared malfunctioning braincell. A 6yo with a bland design and two melons? Why do you think that it's cool? Because it "offends sjws"?
Thank God I got to know this website. If I kept roaming around on reactionary anime circles (IB and non-IB specific), I'd be probably repeating their same nonsense.

>>8678
Why single out third world artists?
>>8722
>never even try to learn a thing about their country's artistic history, so the only thing they know is their own interpretation of how Japanese art is supposed to be
Why would they learn their country's artistic history? Anime artists aren't known for being into 'high' art

>>9148
>Why single out third world artists?
They might live in the third world (like me) so they probably know what they're talking about when they say that third world porn artists are just disgusting Shadman clones (for some reason they can't copy objectively better artists).

>>9149
>be less skilled
>"lol shadclone"
guess every less skilled porn artist is now a shadclone

>>9151
>less skilled
They're actually better than Shadman in many cases but it's all wasted on trying to copy his disgusting style (facial expressions, colors, lines, even shading and those greyish shadows that make skin look dirty) and on drawing random meme porn waifu of the week like him. They're clearly not "less skilled", just intentionally trying to copy his success, because Shadman's shit is popular in Latin America as you can see in the comments on his site.
t. artist

>>8723
>Thank God I got to know this website. If I kept roaming around on reactionary anime circles (IB and non-IB specific), I'd be probably repeating their same nonsense.
Don't get too excited, this site has been getting shittier due to reactionaries and other dumbasses raiding and then staying on /b/ and /leftypol/.

>>9166
>staying on /b/ and /leftypol/
Haven't seen much of that, mods keep on the less offensive ones around to shit on them.
>shadman copying
He's easy to copy and porn makes money in this degenerate capitalist system.

>>8187
Holy kek how did I miss this shit?

>>7440
How?

>>2702
I feel like these images are basically sexualizing and fetishizing to the maximum ]the relationship concept of characters like Carl and Ellie in "Up", where the roughhousing tomboy of a girl and a boy who play as children, grow up, fall in love and continue to enjoy their active somewhat odd life while also having a comfortable loving household as well. The difference is that these people's brains have wires crossed, between their want for "big mommy milkers" and "wholesome relationship" and in between that is a want for a friend who can also be like "one of the boys" on top of that.

>>8692
>And then we'll be forced to get real girlfriends.
Big implication. The entire premise to otaku culture and the sole reason why it is the beacon of creativity catered to males is the fact that these men aren't bounded at all by females, or even their existence. Essentially, they are the furthest things for simps you could feasibly become in the modern world.

A startling percentage of indie webcomics have been ruined from female involvement, usually through meddling wives. This happens even to a lesser extent with certain manga authors who couldn't take the heat, and I can only assume that this is the same exact mechanism that leads to the ruin of male pandering comics and cartoons.

The artfags of old in japan have long since been dead (metaphorically and literally), the decades long recessions brought about by US legislators bought by automobile companies are to blame. Otaku culture is the sole reason your beloved medium has survived past the 90s and for as long as it has. Miyazaki and whipped westerners can whine all they want, but they have never been relevant for as long as it mattered.

I do agree with OP in the sense that certain fetishists, along with OP himself, are cancerous individuals that are ignorant of the medium and the ecosystem that it fosters, and sustains it. Women have always been objectified, sexualized and reduced to tropes in the medium, despite any plot and narratives it may incidentally provide. There are shows that by some fluke get made without such women (much fewer than you'd think), but make no mistake these shows only existed with the help of sexualized women, perhaps indirectly through other shows that aren't niche/flops that help to sustain the industry it calls home.

The act of reducing women to mere tropes is not a recent fad, it is a staple of the culture and the medium as we know it, although much more brazen and done with decreasing subtlety over time. This could be little girls, piss, foreigners/halfs, animal ears, little sisters, *dere, moe traits or any other trope you fervently dislike.

I'd say the shallowness of the execution of this trope in the past few years is twofold, one is the lack of plot and meaningful message in most shows that aren't sol (due to the lack of fucks given to sugarcoating their fetish stories as mentioned), and the invasion of normals both in the west and more crucially in japan, brought about by the increasing adoption of twitter and the culture war with boomers that the otakus "won" not too long ago.

The fetishes they bring along blur the lines of reality even more, with tropes like gyaru, eceleb, whatever a normal would prefer, and the shift from mix of sexual and romantic interest to purely sexual. I'd say this is also the reason weeaboo culture has exploded internationally, but that's a different issue. These new fetishes would, being much more grounded in reality, more easily confuse normals, who already lack the proper ability to distinguish fact from fiction. Naturally, this also makes the elephant in the room harder for the "failed normalfags" to ignore.

>>9273
>these men aren't bounded at all by females
Unless you're talking about pre-90s era Otakus you're lying. Otaku's since the mid-90s have generally been (correctly) associated with loser Hikki-NEET waifu-fag people, with very few Otaku (mostly oldfags) having any sense of class and culture. It's not even like Nerds or Geeks in the West, but straight up social rejects.
>indie webcomics have been ruined from female involvement
Sounds more like WN artists being retards who can't handle their wives/girlfriends and cowtow to them
>they are the furthest things for simps
<[Waifu-fags] are the furthest thing from simps
In a way, given how they seem to loathe and fear real life women, due to the impractical and often bland expectations that have been set by most modern anime. And no, wanting a "big tiddy /fit/ goth tomboy gf" is not any less shallow, since it's just throwing together vague/simplistic cultural and sexual preferences.
>exact mechanism that leads to the ruin of male pandering comics and cartoons
Comics and cartoons in the West are fucked over because of liberal idpol dominating the social sphere and so the market, it has nothing to do with "women ruining it" but ideological faggotry, because unlike in the old days, the new 'bosses' don't just hand a project to the creators to make a cultural work for sale (thus allowing both profitable and creative works to come out, but constantly meddle in the process as well.
>Otaku culture is the sole reason your beloved medium has survived past the 90s
Anime survived the 90s because of shonen and seinen shows like One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, Inuyasha, Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball Z becoming popular in the West and bringing in a new market along side more esoteric but popular things like GiTS, Akira, Fist of the North Star etc.
>Miyazaki is whining
When you spend your life creating something (let alone cultural benchmarks) I think you have a right to complain about the lifestyle you've lived and about how it's degenerated, especially when he's absolutely correct about it.
>they have never been relevant for as long as it mattered
<Miyazaki, Osshi etc. have never been relevant
<the people who essentially created the best anime of their time and in general "were never relevant"
<The Western Market, which saved the collapsing Japanese economy in general and anime studios in particular isn't relevant
You have the socio-economic comprehension of a gnat.
>Women have always been objectified, sexualized and reduced to tropes in the medium
This is applicable to every character in anime male or female, it is not endemic to females, but merely more obvious, Tropes exist in every bit of culture and society, to the point where even defying a trope, is a trope in itself.
The difference being made is that in the past, besides the beauty and femininity of women being 'objectified' characters at least had some depth and weren't paper cut-outs, that 90% of anime today tend to be because they're shitty, 1 season SoL Moeshit. That's a changed trend in comparison to the 90s and 2000s, heck you even point that out yourself.

>>9274
>Unless you're talking about pre-90s era Otakus you're lying.
Well I thought it was obvious I was referring to IRL females, not 2D. Not sure how them being social rejects has anything to do with this either.
>WN artists being retards who can't handle their wives/girlfriends and cowtow to them
Basically. Not that I follow the WN scene or anything
>And no, wanting a "big tiddy /fit/ goth tomboy gf" is not any less shallow, since it's just throwing together vague/simplistic cultural and sexual preferences.
I agree, weeaboos are a cancer. On top of what you said, wanting a gf that conforms to 2D standards is conflating fantasy with reality.
>Comics and cartoons in the West … has nothing to do with "women ruining it" but ideological faggotry, because unlike in the old days, the new 'bosses' don't just hand a project to the creators to make a cultural work for sale (thus allowing both profitable and creative works to come out, but constantly meddle in the process as well.
I'd say that the bosses are way more lenient than they used to be with regards to censorship/etc. Sure there's a preference towards certain profitable ideologies nowadays, but before that (around 5-10 years ago) there has already been rampant nepotism (the calarts meme) and a general perversion of works that didn't fit the politics they were going for.
>Anime survived the 90s because of shonen and seinen shows like One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, Inuyasha, Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball Z becoming popular in the West and bringing in a new market along side more esoteric but popular things like GiTS, Akira, Fist of the North Star etc.
I'm not convinced that the international market especially the ones back then were large enough to actually make an impact on spending and investment, let alone how authors write. Based on the data I've seen thrown around off-handedly, at least.
>When you spend your life creating something (let alone cultural benchmarks) I think you have a right to complain about the lifestyle you've lived and about how it's degenerated, especially when he's absolutely correct about it.
He's not wrong and he has the right to bitch about it (like everybody does), I just don't think it's fair when you consider that the medium no longer has the freedom to produce animation as easily as they used to, considering factors like a higher bar for quality, recession and deflation and poorer purchasing power, market saturation and more. It's easy to dream and be idealistic when you ignore all the tiny cogs and details that make it all work.
><Miyazaki, Osshi etc. have never been relevant
><the people who essentially created the best anime of their time and in general "were never relevant"
><The Western Market, which saved the collapsing Japanese economy in general and anime studios in particular isn't relevant
"Best anime" as determined by award commitees and the western market aren't as relevant as you think it is. There is no doubt that the money they brought in helped to sustain certain studios that catered to such an audience, but this is not the same market as those who watch "anime", which itself largely overlaps with manga, LN, VN, franchising and not studios making blockbusters. So yeah, it's not relevant. I disagree that "The Western Market" saved japan's economy. Much of japan's superpower status could be attributed to their dominance in southeast asia, and I don't see how animation exports alone could save an economy either.
>heck you even point that out yourself.
I did, my point was that the industry which has historically trended towards moving the overton window over to complete objectification of females might have gone a little too far when it began to sacrifice the elements needed for good storytelling like themes, character development and more.

>>9276
Skipping to the parts where I have something to say, since we're in agreement at this point
>bosses are way more lenient than they used to be with regards to censorship
This is true, what I mean is that they're much more restrictive in terms of actual content in regards to plot and characters (in Western comics/cartoons) promoting liberal ideology and spamming idpol to the great dislike of /co/ and the average cartoon-viewer. It's more likely for a show to be low-brow and stuffed with memes, and retarded shit (like Steven Universe for example) than anything worth a damn (like the 2011 Thundercats)
>efore that (around 5-10 years ago)
I mean that's what I'm referring to, but even in the early 2010s most cartoons and comics were largely apolitical or subtle and at least tried to have quality of some kind. This has less to do with women and more a general cancerous liberalism of the predominant porky-supported social sphere in the West.
>not convinced that the international market
Oldfag here, it was. You're forgetting that Japan is a small country compared to the USA, and it's population and so market is limited, exporting to the USA suddenly brought a market of 200 million people to buy their products, especially since the Japanese companies were collapsing in the 90s due to their privatization failings and were snapped up into Western 'alliances'. That's also why Toyotas and Hondas began to supercede American cars in the US market during the 90s. Second only to Harry Potter (and maybe MLP), Naruto has the biggest fanbase on the internet even today, followed by DBZ and other shonen that quickly overtook the American Market. shit like Beyblade, Yu Gi Yoh and Pokemon/Digimon were massive fads of the mid 90s/early 2000s and the Japanese anime industry rose to meet the demand, and with how popular isekai and moe-blob things got in the late 2000s, the restored corporations capitalized on this weebtrap.

Also as a side note, Evangelion is a perfect example anime for this whole process - it arose in the mid 90s during the collapse and was essentially a cheap anime that was expected to be a mediocre success, like an extended OVA series, but because of how Anno and his crew's depression and projected thoughts and ideas turned it into a lament of human problems (including the spiralling cesspit of Otaku) it became a cultural phenomenon, ESPECIALLY since the Western Market blew up it's popularity, which later resulted in the shitty Rebuilds.
>the medium no longer has the freedom to produce animation as easily as they used to
Are you referring to market pressures? Because animation wise, computer technology has only made it easier, even for 2d/hand-drawn stuff. Market wise, Miyazaki's view is based on the actions of his own time, when high-school/college protests and animators standing their ground against corporate big bosses, while today they just go with the trend and allow themselves to get worked to death and underpaid while also not getting to make anything worth a damn
>determined by award commitees
I agree
>Western market
It's a larger market and is relied upon. Why do you think Light Novels sold in the USA are priced at 12-15 bucks while in Japan they sell for 3-6 dollars (in Yen equivalent)
>those who watch "anime", which itself largely overlaps with manga, LN, VN, franchising and not studios making blockbusters
/a/ is a more expansive market, but they also love high-brow movies and stuff from Ghibli and other productions, so it still matters.
>japan's superpower status could be attributed to their dominance in southeast asia
Which was acquired through American Imperialism and their grip on their SE Asian vassal states. Remember Japan is essentially a US puppet.
>ow animation exports alone could save an economy
No the Western Market in general saved the Japanese economy and anime was among those things that grew the economy, see the animators thread to see how much a CEO makes vs an animator. Also I should correct both of us, Japan technically didn't save itself, as on the over-all economic scale since 1995, Japan's economy has been stagnating and declining in terms of GDP, interest rates and other economic factors. While I loathe wikipedia, it does a decent job talking about the economic collapse it is in (just take some statements with salt) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades_(Japan)
>my point was that the industry which has historically trended towards moving the overton window over to complete objectification of females might have gone a little too far when it began to sacrifice the elements needed for good storytelling like themes, character development and more.
I agree, and in fact so does Miyazaki, which is why I'm confused as to why you dismissed him when his statements affirm your point.

So anons, how many of these are you? https://www.thejapanguy.com/twenty-one-otaku-warning-signs/

Aren't the works of Miyazaki and other productions targeted to general audiences far more the revenue earners than franchises which pander to male hikikomori otaku audiences? Stuff like Doraemon and Sazae can be almost ubiquitous cultural fixtures, whereas the typical late night production has but limited spread among otaku folks. Even likely some of the anime toy franchises, like Gundam and Precure, bring in more revenue than those franchise focused on the otaku consumers.

>>9307
Things like Ghibli and "normie" Japanese cartoons should be considered an entirely different kind of animation. Those aren't considered otaku shit by the general population.

>>9273
>The entire premise to otaku culture and the sole reason why it is the beacon of creativity catered to males is the fact that these men aren't bounded at all by females, or even their existence.
>Well I thought it was obvious I was referring to IRL females, not 2D. Not sure how them being social rejects has anything to do with this either.
New anime is shittier because it's made by otaku to pander to other otaku who are detached from reality (and because that's how it is in the capitalist system, everything degenerates for the sake of maximum profit). So them not being "bounded at all by (real) females" does not result in higher quality or a "beacon of creativity". Yes, it is catered to males, but the dogshit that 3D-hating otaku make nowadays isn't exactly "creative".

Also no one ever mentioned "simps". What do you even mean by that? Being attracted to real women, as opposed to thinking about 2D women 24/7? Otaku social rejects are extremely alienated and don't successfully develop social skills which, most of the time, results in them being lonely and losing all hope of experiencing romance, so they retreat into their fantasies while rejecting reality as much as they can (which is a natural reaction). I don't get how this is supposed to have a positive impact on the quality of anime. Male-pandering works were better when the men creating them were in touch with reality and even had contact with real women, but then again the industry was also relatively new and allowed for more creativity.

>>9277
> exporting to the USA suddenly brought a market of 200 million people to buy their products,
Let's not forget that Japan has been exporting anime and video games to the whole world for decades but especially since the 90s like you said. Not just the US; anime is huge in other coutries too.

>>2712
>gender isn't immune to cultural change.
The fuck are you talking about, Tomboy isn't a gender you twit, that's like saying a Gyaru is a gender. It's a character defined by certain masculine behaviors by otherwise normal girls. You sound like those awful people who spam "egg" at any male interested in girly things.

>>2702
I mean from a sexual lust side I can understand why they'd seek to amalgamate the attractive characteristics and wishes of various female archetypes - because a harem is not a realistic option - but yeah, it's pretty inane. It's a sexual fetishization that essentially runs away from the fact that, if they want any of this, they have to go out there and interact with women and actually form real attractions, and not just conceptual ones that are way off base the original ideas (after all OPs definition of Tomboy is realistic).

>>9362
tomboy is a gender

>>9362
I mean, yes, tomboys are defined by what's considered "masculine" and what's considered "normal" for girls at the time. Tomboy isn't a gender, but it's shaped by gender.

>>9372
No it isn't Patrick.
>>9373
>isn't a gender
>shaped by gender
Well yes.

Could the same be said for "tomgirls", or whatever boys who have "feminine", as defined under current hegemony, characteristics get called?

>>9458
Tomgirl is a much more recent term than tomboy though, and so it's characteristics are by definition the reverse of Tomboy but for some reason feels a bit tasteless, probably because tomgirl tends to be used mostly in a sexual tone every time it's used, a fetishized termin for girly-boys that arose probably because "trap" has become a bit old and liberals get their panties in a twist over it and "Nancy" is too old for most Zoomers on the internet to even be aware of.

Speaking of Otakushit and their fetishisms I stumbled across this site (below) recently and I'm stuck nostalgic joy for early 2000s graphic design of the site - finally something that isn't the flat phone-oriented shit I see all the time - and disgust at it basically being yet another Otaku fetish sale site. Opinions?
https://home.gamer.com.tw/creationDetail.php?sn=1509457

>I do agree with OP in the sense that certain fetishists, along with OP himself, are cancerous individuals that are ignorant of the medium and the ecosystem that it fosters, and sustains it.
states he agrees with OP
states OP has no clue
wew lad

>>9481
>no quotes
>a retard
sasuga commiechan

>>9549
who are you quoting mr. chin