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 No.373[View All][Watch Thread]>>4968>>8872>>9077

How would you go about fixing the Isekai (sub?)genre from its current state of mediocrity and stagnation?
85 posts and 20 image replies omitted. Click to expand.
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 No.3513>>4604

The Wizard of Oz is a good isekai. Kindred is a good isekai.
Just don't make them fanservice for otaku always.
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 No.3514>>3522

>>3506
What I meant about SAO and DxD is how unique they were in their genre in terms of ideas.

DxD has held up for at least 12-16 volumes at least, and I still am interested in the rest of it, however the original 'magic' of DxD was how Issei, instead of being a wussy dude who has girls liking him for no reason and getting all ashamed of pervy things, is the opposite. He's an unabashed pervert who powers-up on the idea of groping and sucking tits. He peeps on girls unashamedly and his saving grace is his loyalty to friends and kindness. He's weak as fuck in the beginning, but through sacrifice and training gains power and the girls he was into start taking him seriously instead of a boytoy. Sure, it gets into a shonen power-wank later on, but that's part of the fun, since Issei is a reluctant fighter, who unlike most Shonen protags, doesn't like having strong rivals and a lust for fighting.

With SAO it was a relatively under-rated idea that was wasted quickly. Compare SAO to Log Horizon…. there are no fucking stakes in Log Horizon because death is nonexistent there. in SAO, if you die in the game you die IRL. But SAO wasted this potential instantly, both in the anime and in the LNs. This is why I liked SAO Abridged more. Sachi's death has lasting impact throughout the first season instead of being a forgotten "tragedy". Kirito is not some good person who's also a gamer, he's a broken and slightly sociopathic trauma victim who loves movies and other escapism. Despite his anti-social behaviour, he still is good at heart even if he's cruel in how he goes about it. The S-Class Ragu Rabbit cooked by a maxed out Cooking Skill had a logical result of making any food, real or virtual taste like garbage. There's plenty more, but point is, this is all non-existent in the original. It's so bland that they had to make it up with heart-tugging shit like Mother's Rosario and the brutal-over-reality of Alicization's edgefest.

TL;DR They began to squander their potential as steam and inspiration began to be lost.
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 No.3522

>>3514
SAO Abridged Kirito is essentially just like Kazuma except with power.
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 No.4604>>4607>>4642

>>3513
Based.

>>412
>Seiya
For a moment I thought you were talking about Saint Seiya and I was hyped, then I realized this was referring to a different show… I am dissapoint.
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 No.4607>>4611

>>4604
Hail Eris?
>>

 No.4611

>>

 No.4642

>>4604
>I was hyped, then I realized this was referring to a different show
I realize this sounds like Kayaba from SAO Abridged now.
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 No.4840

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>>795 Youjo Senki thread BTW
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 No.4968>>4970

>>373 (OP)
>make the setting something more interesting than just generic fantasy or video game world, something that would actually create interesting contrasts for the protagonist
>alternatively, or additionally, make the protagonist something other than ordinary nondescript Japanese guy, give him interesting traits
>no harem or powerfantasy bullshit
>it doesn't even have to be a fighting or adventure plot
Essentially fish-out-of-water stories are supposed to be interesting because of the contrasts between the MC and the world, most isekai is just blatantly "life sucks I wish I was an anime protagonist".
No meta shit either. I mean parodies and """deconstructions""" are alright but they're no solution and eventually become saturated themselves. You're just binding yourself to what's problematic about the genre.
Someone else mentioned Wizard of Oz. Literally one of the most famous stories in English literature is an isekai: Alice in Wonderland.
But truthfully it'd be best to let it die for a while. Sometimes something is so overdone and tired that even a good version can be hard to enjoy.
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 No.4970

>>4968
Pretty solid solutions
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 No.4971>>4984>>5075

What anime needs is another GATE that isn't gross JSDF propaganda, maybe more in line with how StargateSG1 did it (which was in turn USAF propaganda but way better done).
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 No.4984>>4989

>>4971
>GATE that isn't gross JSDF propaganda
GATE without JSDF propaganda would just be another generic shitty isekai instead of a nationalist right-wing shitty isekai.
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 No.4989>>5006

>>4984
not at all, since it presupposes a civilizational level connection, not just the shitty MC that gets wooshed away. the terrain of colliding worlds on a grand scale is much more fertile ground than the tired fish out of water setting
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 No.5006>>5378>>5422

>>4989
Go watch Outbreak company.
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 No.5075

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>>4971
The key with Stargate was in making Earth a low-tech backwater usually protected by little more than obscurity or treaty obligations between actual galactic superpowers, and Earth itself only eking out wins against them by exploiting preexisting tensions within/among its enemies and encouraging allies to play to strengths they didn't know they had through an "outside the box" perspective.

Ironically, in spite of USAF involvement (possibly even because of it, on a horseshoe basis of the conflict between 'merkin ideology, versus actual behavior deeply contradictory with those ideological ideals) I think Stargate's story ideologically feels less like imperialist propaganda, and more like anti-imperialism.

There's even an interesting contrast in how Earth handles these utterly superior enemies between SG-1 and Atlantis **. Where in SG-1 Earth wins through these machinations playing on the weaknesses of great powers, versus Atlantis, where Earth's presence in Atlantis just desperately makes even bigger messes and fucks up repeatedly because it's just Earth and totally marginal allies versus one pretty much unified enemy.
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 No.5088>>5113

Make it so their isekai is just a state if psychosis that has real world impact.
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 No.5103>>5107>>5123>>5133

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An interesting Isekai is Reborn as a Spider. I usually dislike CBR but this article is actually fairly good.

https://www.cbr.com/okina-baba-so-im-a-spider-so-what-not-typical-isekai/
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 No.5107>>5133

>>5103
Keep in mind that while it's really good for quite a while (not as fast in the manga as in the novels, but still eventually) it does the typical isekei thing of going UTTERLY and COMPLETELY to shit once powerlevels get too high.
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 No.5113>>5114

>>5088
too bad Kon is already dead or he would have been the man for the job
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 No.5114>>5378

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>>5113
Man, his absence never stops hurting.

Though thinking of him, Paranoia Agent's message was about 70% of what the most vicious and laser-accurate takedown imaginable of isekai's worst failings would look like.
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 No.5123>>5133

>>5103
What's fucking interesting about this? That she starts as nothing and… quickly becomes OP? What a snore.
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 No.5131>>5330

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Here's an isekai idea for y'all (it's ironic since I remember having a similar idea, but instead it was a socialist MC who convinces Dragons and Dwarves to work together).
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 No.5133

>>5103
double checked, nicu-desu

>>5123
It's subverting tropes typical - i.e. le handsome bishounen getting to live the real life! - having it be a spider and let shenanigans ensue.
>muh power up
No shit, it's a silly escapist fantasy, not a serious work. Nobody claimed it was.

>>5107
All good things come to an end usually
>>

 No.5330

>>5131
I haven't read them, but there's already isekai novels/anime/manga kind of like that (about using the MC's economics knowledge in a fantasy setting), such as Koushaku Reijou no Tashinami.
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 No.5337>>5344>>5345

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Anyone here watched/read Drifters? Literally the only good isekai I ever encountered. Its about bunch of historical figures being send to the generic fantasy world, with mission to either save it or destroy it. It utilizes the isekai premise really well, lot of focus is on showing how introducing these foreign elements into the fantasy world changes it. Like the fact that a guy knows how to produce gunpowder, or retro-engineering pieces of technology they brought with them are key plot points. Also the main villain is probably Jesus Christ.
It is illustrated by the same guy who did Hellsing.
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 No.5344>>5355

>>5337
I watched the first season it was great some stuff was a bit weird and I have no idea how they want to continue the story but overall pretty neat. Will there be a second season?
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 No.5345>>5355

>>5337
fash garbage LMMAO
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 No.5355

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>>5344
Havent heart anything about second season, first one covered 40-50 chapters, and currently the manga is on 80, so there is not enough material to adapt yet.

>>5345
I would not say it is fascist, thematically its kind of like edgier Lord of the Rings. Uniting people of all races to defeat great evil and all. But yes, it has that Japanese quality where you can tell author does not share our sensibilities concerning WW2.
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 No.5378>>5401

>>5114
currently rewatching and taking notes because I didn't understand it on a first viewing, I'll have to take your word for it lol
>>5006
gave the first episode a go, it looks good. significantly more trashy than I would have liked, I guess you can't have it all tho
>>

 No.5401

>>5378
>currently rewatching and taking notes because I didn't understand it on a first viewing
If you watch while understanding the main message to be "self-deception is bad", the show obviously hammers nonstop on these points.

I think it couldn't get any blunter than in the final episodes when the older detective smashes apart a literal cardboard fantasy of his idealized memories after his frail wife singlehandedly fights off the gargantuan Shonen Bat with nothing more than a stern lecture on sincerely accepting her own failings and making do despite them.
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 No.5410

>>

 No.5422

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>>5006
gotta say, they almost lost me with the beach episode, but luckily best girl came through in the end
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 No.8872

>>373 (OP)
By not wasting their potential likeRe:Zero or any other mediocre work with a good premise does.
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 No.9077>>9078

>>373 (OP)
>wowsie im in an another world!!
This not a genre, this is a dump trope.
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 No.9078>>9084

>>9077
It's not a dumb trope lol,, it just gets poorly executed because it's an easy tool for lazy writers. It has become a genre at this point.
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 No.9084>>9085

>>9078
it's a pretty dumb and usually pathetic trope: hurr I wasted my life until I died but the universe loves me so much I get to start all over in a world where video games are real and I am the only Chad so all the Staceys naturally fall for only me

like there's wish fulfillment and then there's isekai
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 No.9085>>9095>>9106

File (hide): 1627319094344.jpg ( 2.46 MB , 1200x4616 , Isekai film heroes.jpg )

>>9084
>hurr I wasted my life until I died but the universe loves
That's not what Isekai is, that's a plot device method that poorly made Isekai take part in.
Pic related are all Isekai, and most are good movies and stories
>in a world where video games are real
You've described not even 1/3 of in-another-world fiction.
>I am the only Chad so all the Staceys naturally fall for only me
Again that's the most generic cashgrab garbage, not the majority of the genre
> there's wish fulfillment and then there's isekai
Yeah you need to expand to actually good Isekai instead of consuming shit and claiming all of the genre is shit. You sound like a person who sees Hunger Games and denounces all dystopian fiction as "muh chosen one" garbage.
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 No.9095>>9098>>9102

>>9085
>isekai is good
>posts images of shit that are not isekai
rip van winkle is isekai lmao star wars is isekai lol isekai is good because everything is isekai and everything includes good things so isekai is good laffo
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 No.9098>>9111

>>9095
>shit that are not isekai
<Isekai is literally 'in another world'/fish out of water stories
Are you ok?
>schizo strawman about other fiction
Concession accepted.
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 No.9102

>>9095
Calm down
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 No.9106>>9112

>>9085
What is the last one? I don't recognize it. Is it good?
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 No.9111>>9112>>9127

>>9098
you are retarded and don't know what isekai is

you should kill yourself
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 No.9112>>9140

>>9111
Stay mad, no argument brainlet

>>9106
It's called Lastman https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6296094/
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 No.9127

>>9111
>you are retarded and don't know what isekai is
What is it according to you?
How are the movies in the pic not isekai?
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 No.9140

>>9112
>It's called Lastman https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6296094/
I have watched it and it's not an isekai. Maybe if there will be a second season where the action would take place in the Valley of Kings, but as it is, it's no more isekai than War of the Worlds.
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 No.9281>>9358

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Anyone watch Redo of Healer? I've only seen the summary and clips but frankly while it's an interesting concept, it feels really friggin' edgy, especially with it being a 'harem' show that gets down to it. Aa comment I read summarizes my impression of the show from what I've gleaned of it, "Redo of healer really puts you on your toes one of the animes where yes you completely understand why he does what he does but at the same time you are thinking jeez dude chill"

So, is it worth watching this or is just an edgy grim-dark 'fantasy' like every other DnD edgefest to ever grimdark?
Because this is giving me Shinimaou no Basara vibes and I loathe that discount-DxD hentai.

Also is it just me or is there a trend of Isekai/fantasy anime having an edgy MC getting (petty) revenge and power, we got Shield Hero, Isekai Shihai No Skill Taker, Arifureta, Nidome no Yuusha, and Moonlit Fantasy, heck Moonlit Fantasy is one of several anime where an isekai character is banished, wanders the world penniless and bitter and meets magic creatures and becomes super OP and shit. It's so repetitive yet eaten up. Not that Isekai should be the happy-go-lucky shit like Isekai Cheat Magician or Isekai Smartphone but frankly it feels nauseating. Overly Cautious Hero, Re;Zero* or Goblin Slayer balanced levity and grimness which is why I can enjoy it, but other stuff makes me feel dirtied. Dungeon Seeker managed to not feel contrived either. I think I might be a bit annoyed also by the artstyle itself - it's generic moeshit with 0 sakuga and the colorful, flat color pallet makes it clash horribly with the ideas. Like Berserk had good animation that fit its dark fantasy setting, and had detail and complex shading.

*I'm not saying RE:Zero is good, it's not, but it has some good moments that I appreciated and it knew not to overdo the "It's time to suffer and die Subaru-kun!" concept to the point of insensitivity.
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 No.9353

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So the idea of Overly Cautious hero is that there are pantheons of gods and stuff that support selected Isekai heroes to free worlds ranked D, C, B, A, S , SS and SSS.

This gave me an idea for a sort of reverse Isekai where Earth is a SSS-class world because there is no one Devil King and his armies to take down and instead the various magic heroes end up killed because they can't solve societies problems (so figures like Jesus Christ or Che Guevara or Hercules are examples of such failed Isekai heroes, who nonetheless had impacts on the world.
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 No.9358>>9361

>>9281
I think this "overly edgy isekai" thing is just a fad that won't last long.
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 No.9361

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>>9358
It's been going on since at least 2015 (that's omitting earlier edgy works). I mean I recently watched Arifureta and it wasn't outright awful (though it derailed quite a bit) but regardless, overall this 'fad' is getting annoying because they don't go for a dark storyline but an edgy one, otherwise you can't fit in the Moeshit, and generic harem gags and other shit aspects into it. At least Shield Hero tried to be somewhat consistent in its story telling.

BTW another shitty manga that is outright porky-shit is Meikyuu Black Company, a play on the Japanese term;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_company_(Japanese_term)
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 No.9538

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Why DxD and Date A Live work so well

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