[ home / overboard / sfw / alt / cytube] [ leftypol / b / WRK / hobby / tech / edu / ga / ent / music / 777 / posad / i / a / lgbt / R9K / dead ] [ meta ]

/edu/ - Education

Learn, learn, and learn!
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
Captcha
Tor Only

Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

Matrix   IRC Chat   Mumble


File: 1608527959134.jpg ( 49.37 KB , 890x538 , jfdsklöjsadlfksalfjsaökkfj.jpg )

 No.327

I'm a highschool drop out who never had the tension span to read anything more than 200 pages, why should I now read some 700 pages of confusing dialectics? isn't it enough to read some wikipedia articles or something? aren't there any movies that explain all the theory?
>>

 No.328

>>

 No.329

> to read anything more than 200 pages
There are plenty of good books that are shorter than that.
>>

 No.330

>>328
> hey guise my attention span is bad
&lt no worries comrade come watch my 4 hour long brainwashing marathon
>>

 No.337

>>327
Just read every day and you will get better at it. Start with texts that are a length you can read in one sitting, 3 pages, 50 pages, 100 pages. You will be able to read 300 pages at once in no time.
>>

 No.339

File: 1608527960945.jpg ( 362.18 KB , 1920x1080 , ecran02.jpg )

Read a page a day if you want to start small. What is important is that you understand what you're reading, not reading itself. After that little page is done, write down what you learned and or your thoughts. If you are confused, re-read the page.

Be patient. This isn't a race.
>>

 No.340

>>327
Marx is the only author you "need" to read, and his work doesn't need to be read studiously to be understood. (/leftypol/ is the ultimate indicator that pouring over a book doesn't lead to understanding.)
Take it at your own pace, but do read the original source. A lot will be intuitive and that understanding is more important than any number of quotations.
Also, I can't stress this enough: take it easy. You're no longer in school, this reading is purely for your own benefit and intellectual curiosity.

>>339
Fully agree. Don't fall the one-upmanship that is the rule here.
>>

 No.342

>>329
Yeah, but the diary of a wimpy kid is 221 pages and it is an absolute classic.
>>

 No.346

File: 1608527961819.png ( 40.1 KB , 300x292 , skill and challenge.png )

To get better at reading, challenge yourself, but not too much.
>>

 No.348

>>346
Shouldn't Boredom and Relaxation be switched in that chart? Why would you be bored when skill and challenge are both medium, but relaxed when your skill is much higher than the challenge requires?
>>

 No.351

>>346
What does this chart mean?
>tfw too skilled to be horny?
Or what?
>>

 No.364

>>351
It means that if a problem is just at the right skill level but highly challenging, it will be exciting. If it is highly challenging but your skills are too low for it, it will make you anxious.
>>

 No.374

>>342
yeah that was fun but it had fun images all over the place and told story of a relatable character with simple language.
>>

 No.393

File: 1608527967821.jpg ( 131.06 KB , 1095x1400 , smokigaminegril.jpg )

>>351
>tfw too skilled to be horny
You say this like a joke but this is literally me. I haven't felt horny in like 2 years and I think it's cuz I had too much practice in college
>>

 No.397

>>337
This. I used to read alot couple of years back, but when I stopped reading for a year or two, it fucked my attention span. I just started reading again and I'm getting the concentration required back the more I read. As this anon said, start slow and then keep increasing how much you read incrementally.
>>

 No.398

>>327
Understanding the basics like the labor theory of value and other base tennants of leftism should always be your bedrock. Imo activism will allways be more important than education and theory.
>>

 No.400

>>

 No.410

>>400
never touched a manga before, but I suppos a comic is readable. can I somehow read this in google books?
>>

 No.608

>>327
>LShMRZIRYOLZTDYIDT
What did he mean by this?
>>

 No.806

>>400
BASED

if you read this whole manga, do you even need to read the original? it seems like it covers everything
>>

 No.817

File: 1608528021011.jpg ( 130.93 KB , 656x875 , Carlo_Cafiero.jpg )

There is only one summary of Capital that was approved by Marx himself: https://www.marxists.org/archive/cafiero/1879/summary-of-capital.htm

It's around 80 pages when printed.
>>

 No.836

>>400
Why does the value of the machinery and materials used to produce count as part of labour value? The workers that produced those things allready got what they worked for when they were sold, so why is the value of those things added to the labour value done every hour? I don't get it.
>>

 No.850

>>400
I'd try to redo this if I had the raws.
>>

 No.852

>>608
Yes.
>>

 No.1430

As other anons have said, it's all about building habits and training yourself to read better. You can't go in expecting to immediately comprehend everything you read or have the attention span to read for hours, so just be persistent and don't get discouraged.
>>

 No.1431

Start with the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
>>

 No.1490

About to crack open this bad boy.

Wish me luck
>>

 No.1516

>>1490
Wait
>>

 No.1517

>>327
>I'm a highschool drop out who never had the tension span to read anything more than 200 pages
I'm in the same boat friend. undiagnosed learning disorders. My path was to listen to audio lectures by various people. Richard Wolf is a good entry point as he has all this on youtube. Just listen to these while you're on the job or go for a walk or whatever you need to do to keep listening.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wkO3qsZY_U&list=PLPJpiw1WYdTNMCC0ypXHZ-kW7yCz4T0Zg

Joining a reading group helped, and I was able to read on my own for a while when I was on medication, but those ran out and were too expensive to maintain so I just kind of gave up on reading. Still feel pretty confident in my knowledge on this stuff. Asking questions on leftypol of course also useful for learning.
>>

 No.2191

I also don't read or like doing it a whole lot either but unfortunately it spells the difference between being cultured or not and the same also for achieving material wealth.

I find a good way to absorb written works is by listening to audiobooks while going along with the text of it without obsessing too much over trying ti process every last word.
>>

 No.2217

Build your attenion span up by reading genreshit that interests you and work your way up to big boy books.
>>

 No.2308

You're not sufficiently bored by the modern consumerist life yet. You don't have to like reading, it's just better than any other form of "entertainment" these day.
>>

 No.7985

>>340
>Also, I can't stress this enough: take it easy. You're no longer in school, this reading is purely for your own benefit and intellectual curiosity.


It shouldn’t be right to pressure kids into scholasticism.
There’s a difference between teaching kids to read and moralizing it as a form of cultural harassment.
Most adults don’t even respect/appreciate academia on its own merit yet they force kids to make value out of academic materials.
>>

 No.7986

>>2191
>reading is the difference between being cultured and wealthy.

It’s ironic that most of our books are dedicated to historical eras where most people were illiterate.
>>

 No.7987

>>340
>>1430
>>329
>>339
It’s funny how schools whine about kids reading books with less than two hundred pages, thinking that lexical quantity is quality.
>>

 No.7988

>>327
Marxists don't have any interesting insights on modern economy/politics except 1-2 opinions that can be summed up in 2 sentences.

You aren't missing much because it's clear you can read anyway. Books are still the best medium for historical research outside direct converstion with primary material though.
>>

 No.8003

Red pen makes good video essays: https://www.youtube.com/@redpen1917
>>

 No.8006

As a fellow high school dropout, I feel you. Fear not, though. Philosophy is made out to be esoteric, but if you really look at the ancients who wrote on it, they were figuring things out for the first time. They didn't have received pedagogy to tell them what to think, in the manner that they themselves prescribed for future generations. If you see it like that, rather than some imperious dictate from on high to tell you what you're supposed to think, it's a much more approachable topic.

First off, if someone speaks of "dialectics" they are usually a pseud and shouldn't be trusted. It's mostly from people saying words that impress the sense but don't really say anything. So to explain dialectic and what it does, you have to step back and consider a world where you didn't have ready-made definitions in language, and you had to discern what a word means. Stupid people do this all of the time when trying to describe an unfamiliar word by relating it to other words and ideas, that the participants in this conversation understand. We may not know for instance what a "dog" is, if we never encountered such a creature. But, if you speak to someone with familiarity on the subject, they will describe a dog as an animal with four legs, of various breeds. Or, they could point to a photograph and say "this is a dog", and expect you to be able to see it, recognize it, and store it in your knowledge.

Basically, "dialectic" is a way to establish language from prior conditions that are understood by someone. Anyone who speaks of dialectics "creating" anything doesn't know what they're talking about. Dialectic allows someone to expound on an idea that otherwise wouldn't be communicable.

So you ask, where do the primary ideas that allow this dialogue come from? That's the great question, because you couldn't take it for granted that there is some natural force that simply made it so by decree or asserted what the world is. The beginning of this inquiry formally for most people is religion or theology, or some spiritual understanding of the world that is intuitive. Even if people aren't particularly religious and consider themselves realists, they are asking ultimately a question of what, if anything, can be trusted for genuine information about the world. Since this is obviously about information rather than "raw knowledge", this is ultimately about the ways humans (or any other entity capable of language) understands the world.

So, a human child typically starts off with some knowledge that is more or less "inborn", which are very simple things. They attain by contact with other humans and the world further knowledge. How this happens is not immediately important, but it is something the child can ask and has to ask eventually—how they know what they know. Even without an understanding of metaphysics or epistemology or logic, some cruder form of such is fashioned out of necessity to describe the world by entities that think or interact with the world. The child, as an infant, did not willfully choose to be born or sense any of this. The infant is at first an animal, and it has no "necessary" impulse guiding any of this. Usually though, the animal is nurtured by its mother or some condition. This is very basic animal sociality. If not this, the animal finds its way in the world, mostly by instincts that ultimately reduce to a basic want for food. Human infants will seek food if they are hungry, cry for attention, and that sort of thing. Part of the child learning language is that the mother speaks to it, plays games with it, and she would be the first point of contact for learning things. If not the mother, than some other entity would be the one doing this. Children that grow up without this dialogue and affection will turn out very differently, and we have ample evidence in the literature for this. None of this information from the mother is pedagogically fed as undigested information. The infant doesn't have any built-in language in that sense. It is instead synthesizing that language based on these interactions, these dialogues, and its knowledge of the world. The infant's upbringing is not purely linguistic. It is like any animal operating in a world where it has real requirements like food. The non-linguistic parts though are not "dialogues" in the same way that the games and language learning are. They are interactions, and in some way the infant is becoming part of the world they are in, and the world is in some way affected by the infant. The infant and child learn very early that their actions have consequences, and there is no way to wipe clean history. Something that is broken remains broken and will not be automatically repaired by some force that makes the world settle in place.

I can go on in this vein, but by the time a child starts asking existential questions about the universe itself, its ultimate origin, and this usually starts around the age of 7 because any child that encounters this thing called society is going to see there are much bigger humans that know a lot more about the world than it does. Sometimes it starts earlier, sometimes a little later, but even if the child were segregated from society, it would see there is a world with consequences and it will have to learn, however it can, how to adapt to the world.

The modern German ideology is about interdicting this dialogue and snuffing it out. The Greeks, who had varying thoughts on the topic, saw dialogue as an exchange that encouraged growth of knowledge, or possibly a way to bullshit others. Dialectic has a very limited purview, because most of the universe isn't linguistic. It is mechanical for the most part, and if you really get into asking what the world is, all of existence is necessarily mechanistic, including whatever impulse created the universe (or you assume the universe always existed and will always exist in some way, but this itself implies a "creation" outside of time as we know it). Dialogues in any language are, out of necessity, causal in the manner language requires, because language is necessarily a temporal event rather than a trans-historical one. In all of this, we hold the dialogue with the assumption that the universe at a basic level is not linguistic at all; that any language we use to describe it is a tool for our purposes, and the facts of the universe are independent of any representation we express in any way. This is explicitly stated in Aristotle's writing on logic, and what Hegel is attempting to corrupt and degrade.
>>

 No.8007

Another thing I can say about philosophy generally is that philosophy at its core is the most low-level operating thought of knowledge. Theological knowledge, which is where most philosophical inquiry began as a thing humans did in institutions, did not arise by Reason, but because of a necessity for this knowledge if humans (or any other animal) were to navigate the world and respond to it with any deliberation. Theology doesn't go into the rational details of its process. A fully developed religion can rationalize its claims, but at a basic level, religion's claims about anything are not about having a theory or rational explanation, but about something the theologian believes to be imminent, eternal, and very important if they are to speak of the world. Philosophy as an answer to "big questions" all on its own is not very useful. Where the classical philosophers start is their examination of society, human beings, based at first on their religious knowledge that was adopted out of necessity and perpetuated for many generations. There are of course new cults and new religions that come about every so often, and this was more common in the ancient world than it is today. The "one big religion" idea didn't take off until the classical period, and it only got really big with Christianity. Buddhism was also sort of this, where Buddha's message was a singular one, but the way Buddhism adapted is that its spiritual leaders establish their school, and another leader establishes a different school, and their concept of the spiritual grows and adapts with the times.

Philosophy proper has always had a troubled relationship with anything religious, because many of the people writing philosophy were doing so in explicit opposition to the spiritual authority of their day. This was especially pronounced in Greece, and really really pronounced in Plato whose whole thing is that he hates democracy and the masses. Then the Romans came along and became administrators, lawyers, and most of what we think of as standard law was set in place. There's a bigger reason why this happened than saying it was because of some thought leaders declaring it so, but at a basic level, humans are deliberate actors in the world. They couldn't be otherwise if their existence was a real one.

So my thing, the thing I do really well, is get into the weeds of the most basic germs of philosophical thought. I had to, out of necessity, think about how I think, and how thought could proceed for anything else. Dialectics often confuses something that is actually very simple if we remember what we are and don't indulge in fantasies or narratives of what we're supposed to be.
>>

 No.8008

>>7985
My experience with schools is that they went far out of their way to ensure kids couldn't read. There was no coherent instruction in phonics, reading assignments were so ridiculous that I couldn't believe anyone could learn that way. I was lucky that I learned to read before I entered primary school. If I hadn't, I would have never learned. They insisted I was illiterate to the bitter end. Germanics do not possess genuine thought.
>>

 No.8010

Anyway, I think, OP, you're quite capable of reading. A lot of books frankly suck and aren't worth reading. When I read anything "deep", I keep my bullshit detector running, and when I see obvious bullshit, it pops off. I had to become very good at discerning bullshit and what angle, if any, the writer had. It's rough to learn that humans are so habitually dishonest that they lie for the sake of lying. But, the liars are never nearly as clever as their schemes insist they are. Eventually, someone writes the truth because they gain nothing from lying and their objective is the genuine dialogue I wanted, but was denied because I was a "monster". I do not consider the people who were promoted or the cause they were promoted for to be worth anything and ask why humanity chose to do this, but they did, and there is a very bad but real reason why it did turn out that way.

The best place to start, I've found, is to be a scientist first, rather than a philosopher or "theoretician". Then pick a subject you know well enough, and become really good at it. Then do something no one else is doing, and find a niche that isn't being filled in the overall body of human knowledge. It's easier said than done, but so far as I know, no one writes about the subject I do in the way I have, for the purposes I have. It took me a long time to get there, and I'm never going to be appreciated as a great writer, but that's not the point. I read and I write first of all for myself, and I've found a few people who aren't disgusting fagons reveling in this shitshow humanity became.

Through all of it, never forget what you hate, and what you know to be Evil. Never, EVER put blind faith in anything and certainly don't place faith in a fucking human. I will never understand the person who exhorts others to maintain blind faith. It's Germanic and disgusting.
>>

 No.8011

The worst mistake I made, which is unforgivable for me despite everything, is that I let disgusting Germanics do their thing where they bully others into accepting their sick, degraded culture and society, and told myself I was stupid. The real problem, of course, is not limited to "Germanics". But, I have, over the course of reading, found the entire Germanic mindset to be intellectual rot and poison, and that is what it was intended to be. This idea of German philosophy was entirely modern and seeded for the explicit purpose of opening Germany to the imperial system, with the disastrous results we see before us today. Something in my bones knew what this thing was when I saw it, but it took me far too long to investigate history and see for myself what sort of people did this and what it was for. That's why I am disgusted by the whole of modern continental philosophy, which ultimately led to the corruption and destruction of analytic philosophy and the knowledge of the classics with nothing to replace it. That leaves me with little to go on except my own efforts to work out some system.

If you really want to get philosophy, study formal logic, first with a crude beginner book then get into the deeper history. I will never be an expert in formal logic but I learn from those who are, and they are among the most vocal critics of the present academy. The ideology that dominates today is aggressively Wrong and insists on making the world conform to it, because they figured out that they could relitigate reality until everyone is forced to accept it. I learn, out of necessity, some of the key philosophers who pushed the worst of it, and broke down why they are wrong. Those who take pride in aggressive Wrongness are not interested in any honesty. They want to destroy any honesty, so that dialogue is terminated and the essential acts common to their race, like torture and humiliation, are universal and all that can exist.
>>

 No.8012

I do warn, if you get too much into this philosophy, you have to become a nihilist. It's the only way. It will also drive you mad, and you might spend too much time on things that are very small, so that others need not suffer the bullshit in the future. My life is already worthless, so I figure I can spend my life doing this, while I am able to do so. I refuse to accept this system of habitual lying and dishonesty and the disgusting fags who imposed it on the world.
>>

 No.8020

>>8006
This.
Modern society worships philosophers like their gods who must be worshipped and minded about when in reality most weren’t even convinced of their own musings.
>>

 No.8021

>>8020
The funny thing about Wittgenstein is that he spent his later life saying "I didn't get it right" and everyone moved to say he solved philosophy then and there. It's crazy really.

I could never wrap my head around the person who is that quick to give over their brain to a thought leader. It's not that I'm some defiant personality that has to be argumentative. I'd love it if someone had all of the answers. Every time someone presents this system where they have all of the answers, it is the most flabbergastingly stupid shit. It's never a system that pertains to the world I see every day and have to live with. It's not even an indicator of what a total system would be. It's just "the system is never wrong" and a demand for slavish devotion to it. That way of thinking has been around in some form since forever and it's never worked. It's also been known since ancient times that this "total system" doesn't work for the same reasons I can figure out on my own.

Really though I don't understand the obsession with making knowledge trivial and reducing it to self-serving koans and sayings. I get why there are people who do this, but the world has always presented to me as a very large assortment of premises, all of which point to an underlying reality that has nothing to do with what I know or any linguistic conceit. The way of thinking that can mandate that we're obligated to respect the "total system" is very new, but the root causes of this disease are very ancient. The longer it goes on, the more insufferable it will be and the more it will throw lies at everyone to make them accept it.

As far as I know, no credible philosopher in history invokes the "total system" and insists it's true no matter what. Even someone as disgusting as Heidegger has his line of reasoning regarding the world and the power of making such statements. The German ideologues knowingly lie and believe that the essential act of lying invokes power. It's never worked for them, but it is a system that perpetuates itself and answers certain questions about the world. It can be done where the universe is viewed as a totality and that totality is functionally a clockwork (even if you're not allowed to say it's a clockwork, but all "totalities" necessarily imply a clockwork universe).
>>

 No.8022

>>8021
As a black man having to grow up with an overbearing Christian mom, I feel you.


Most people don’t really believe in God or whatever their political orientation states they are.

They just merely hope.

One thing I’ve learned is that things that have direct evidence for its effectiveness is never forced on people.
It’s always the things that have no direct evidence of effectiveness that’s forced.

Society dictates that religious adults are justified in forcing their beliefs into children.

Society also seems to shrug off the amount of sexual and platonically physical abuse that happens in religiopolitical institutions.


“If you don’t stand for something you fall for anything”.

Yet, it’s the people who stand for something who are the first to fall for anything.

People don’t like apolitical/agnostic folk.
They want side-choosers.
>>

 No.8023

>>8022

That's how education works - by forcing children to accept a lie, even a noble lie. The educator always considers giving the truth with clear evidence to be "cheating" because the point of education is to filter and make the student "work for it". As much as possible, the educator wants to decided arbitrarily who passes and fails, and "corrects history" until those who aren't supposed to succeed fail. Every system of education in history does this because education inherently serves some political function and has nothing to do with learning or the truth.
In the past, there was a baseline level of truth-telling that was necessary for society to continue. Workers needed to know how to till the land without being told again, and the same is true of any labor. In practice, no one in management is particularly concerned with merit or even a productive result of the labor. To a manager, the most important thing is that the ordering of society does not essentially change. The manager prefers that the current managers stay where they are or promote, but even more important than individual want is the managerial system remaining intact. Even at the expense of the collective interests of society or the interests of individuals, "the system is never wrong" because that was the way it has always been so far as the dominant ideas care. In the past, honesty was maintained by a lot of inertia working against the managerial system and by the necessities of their societies, since they had to fight actual wars eventaully or they faced individual famine if their farms weren't genuinely productive. The problem is primarily managerial rather than a religious problem or pure and simple greed of the proprietors. Proprietors may want to see the poor starve and extract more rent, but without the overbearing managerialism throughout the whole society, that can't be realized or morally enforced within the working class and institutions. The proprietors would have to resort to force to make people pay rent, and this assumes the proprietors define the point of their existence as rent-extraction which a proprietor may not want to do. Managers on the other hand are only incentivized to remain managers no matter what. The managers do not have a large stake in property, and what stake they have is almost never a personal one that translates to owning a long-term firm. The managers move from company to company, usually sucking it dry and making sure their buddies get more from the grift and encourage licentiousness among the workers. Managers don't "have" to be like this, but they chose to be and nothing would ever compel them to do otherwise. Of all of the workers that need to be monitored and policed, the managers are the most stringently controlled, for they are locked by contract to be instruments of management and pure exploitation for its own sake, rather than the chief beneficiaries of the managed society.

>Yet, it’s the people who stand for something who are the first to fall for anything.

>People don’t like apolitical/agnostic folk.
>They want side-choosers.

Well, I do "stand" for something, or rather, I picked the thing I will rail against for the rest of my life and have no reason to ever confuse it with something else. I get what you say though, because so many people are easily goaded once they follow the lead to some principle that explains the world.

With "God" a lot of those who claim belief do not know what they are saying. So many are convinced God is their friend or looking out for them in some way, and that is not at all how it works. Of the people who do take religion seriously, God is nothing more than the totem of power that invariably sides with the strongest army, and they don't bother hiding it. That has always been their god. Anyone who gets into religious with any true intent will know religions are inhererently mystery cults. Religion always holds most of its knowledge within esoteric mysteries, from which its overt face is presented. A lot of things in the universe are like this, but in religion it is explicit, known, and acted on. They never just tell you what the religion is about, because if you really say what religion entails, you wouldn't want to join it unless you're a super dedicated scholar. What is religion? It is the chief path by which humanity studies the Evil, and most who take any interest in religion do so because it pertains to the Evil. That's something a lot of people do not get about religion. Most of humanity does not see religion as an ideology or belief system in the way Christianity is structured as such. You see for example lots of Muslims who believe all sorts of wacky and contradictory things about their god, and for quite a few of them, God is an allegorical symbol that effectively stands in for the natural world. But, the biggest interpretation of Allah is the same as ever; that He is on the side of the biggest army, for a religion that is all about conquest and domination. It's literally in the name.

Unique IPs: 9

[Return][Catalog][Top][Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / overboard / sfw / alt / cytube] [ leftypol / b / WRK / hobby / tech / edu / ga / ent / music / 777 / posad / i / a / lgbt / R9K / dead ] [ meta ]
ReturnCatalogTopBottomHome