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File: 1608528335857.png ( 12 KB , 171x158 , leftypedia logo.png )

 No.3780[Last 50 Posts]

Hello everyone, we have received the results of our project proposal topic, and I'm delighted to announce that we are teaming up with 'leftypedia' to deliver our planned 'argument/talking point resource' idea. In case you don't know, leftypedia is the current version of the old abandoned 'marxistpedia' which was a project started by leftypol users back in the day, so I think this is sort of like a homecoming in a way.


Anyway, if you have a look at the leftypedia site you might be able to tell that they have a much more formal and 'encyclopedic' tone than what we're planning, just like wikipedia, but the admin is going to create a separate 'category' for our new content that will be called something like 'rhetoric: topic' rather than just 'topic', this will also feature on the frontpage much like the encyclopedic content. As a tenplate, I'd like you to feast your eyes on these pages which someone on leftypedia already made (albeit only on their personal userspace for now).


I'd like to ask if anyone can come up with a slightly more catchy name for our new section than 'rhetoric', cause that sounds a bit cumbersome to me even though I came up with it, so yeah, open to suggestions.

So, since that isn't implemented yet, I'd like you all to try familiarise yourselves with the site for now, maybe take a look at the articles that are already there and improve some of them if you feel able. Unfortunately the site currently has only edit by approval so you will have to wait for any changes you make to be approved, this is because of a persistent spambot problem and I hope that we will be able to work out something to change this to normal editing as on wikipedia and the like, please just bear with it for now.

If you have an answer to a 'common question', or you have an effortpost you'd like to archive and save, then please post it in this topic for now so that we can work on it together until we can figure out how to categorise our new section of the site.

Thanks for your attention!

EDIT: I've now got admin permissions on leftypedia, so I can create pages and approve edits directly. If you want to use the site I recommend you create a user account, which I can then approve once you make a productive edit (to distinguish from spambots), then you won't have to wait for approval anymore and can create articles yourself. Or, just ask me and I can create an article for you if you're desperate to make one as your first edit. Thanks guys, I hope we can make this project cool together!

t. Caballo






Idea: people ITT dump effortpost screencaps or copypastas, or link to such posts/archives/etc and we formulate how to convert it to wiki-acceptable format


Yes, sorry, that's kind of what I meant, please do that.

Now that I think of it, perhaps as well as a 'rhetoric' category, we could have some kind of 'archive' category for just general posts on a topic that aren't exactly an argument on a common topic? Like say an anon makes a really insightful and interesting post about trains, that could go in the 'archive' section under 'trains' and link to, 'public transport, mass transit, transportation, public utilities', etc.

I haven't agreed that with the site owner yet though so I'd need to talk to him about it, but now yes feel free to post that stuff.


Another mod suggested maybe naming the category 'agitprop', thoughts?


[b]THANK YOU[/b]
I was JUST thinking about this the other day
We need to routinize archivization of info into pages somewhere and the wiki format is the best for this.

Lit, obscure definitions, internet-specific happenings, the building of INFOGRAPHICS (with progressing improvements), archiving suggestions for leftist sites for news, forums, blogs, etc., even perhaps suggestions for easy-to-use secure software / social networking alternatives (user-friendly).


There's this post in >>>/hobby/9346 that is fucking great.

Here's the post:
It's not that it's easier to imagine the end of the world than to imagine the end of capitalism. The end of the world is indeed the end of capitalism. For many people the only way to imagine the end of capitalism is to imagine the end of the world. Post-apocalyptic media usually doesn't depict people rebuilding after the apocalypse, so much as fighting over the scraps left over. The conceit is that without the current system everything descends into chaos. Supposedly, if we ditch capitalism we will look back upon the current times fondly as the antediluvian golden age.

This kind of fiction is what some call "nostalgia for the present." Unlike the supposed role of dystopian fiction as warning or satirical, the point of disaster/apocalypse porn is to make us feel like things aren't so bad after all. What little good exists in these world is not built or discovered, but salvaged from the present. As commodities without capitalist production, these things are an ephemeral reminder of the supposedly great past that has been lost by human folly. They will all disappear eventually, and the best the characters in these settings can do is hold onto these artifacts for as long as possible. You hardly ever see anyone building new things, beyond jury-rigging some scraps.

But why shouldn't people in the post-apocalypse build anything? Sure, in a disaster the supply chain will break down in the short term, but it's not like it's impossible to reconnect the raw materials and the processing centers. And with a sudden halt in manufacturing there would be huge piles of materials at all stages of production just lying around waiting to be used. It's not exactly logical, but do you think bourgeois film studios and other gatekeepers of mass media are going to allow a story where the workers just start using the means of production of their own accord? That would mean that the capitalist class are totally unnecessary!

The illogical nature of the standard post-apocalypse extends even farther than this, to a truly absurd degree. It's unusual in, for instance, a zombie apocalypse that somebody builds a wall or a fence to keep the zombies out. This would be a practical solution generally speaking, but where it does show up (as the writers have more recently become aware of the silliness), it's guaranteed to fail. Not just for "dramatic effect" (you can find other sources of drama besides humans failing to deal with the situation), but because in these kinds of stories rebuilding effectively simply isn't allowed. It's not part of the genre. The nature of the story is that humans are necessarily reduced to wanderers, hunter-gatherers killing each other and salvaging what little is left of the old world. When capitalist production stops, building new things stops too. And worse, previously built things often stop working. It's a very common trope in apocalyptic fiction where things break constantly. Even things that logically should not break. Even very shortly after society breaks down. There's no reason that cars would just stop working a couple of months into the apocalypse. There's no reason buildings would start falling apart within a couple of years. But the point of these stories is that if the world comes to a stop, it's all over. If these things didn't immediately start falling apart it would undermine the vision being created. If buildings just stood on their own (like they always did) and the world kept turning without the status quo continuing, that makes people ask questions. Just look at how people have responded to the corona virus impacting the economy. Reality is being clarified, illusions dispelled. In order for the ideology of dependence to be conveyed, a massive dose of unreality must be injected. And of course it does. The ideology is ridiculous, so too is its rationalization.

The sheer volume of this kind of fiction should raise eyebrows, and so should its uniformity. This is the only vision of the future we are supposed to have, other than things continuing essentially as they are. The only deviation we are supposed to imagine is disaster, and we are supposed to imagine it often. We are supposed to be too afraid of the alternative to seriously consider it. This is why not just post-apocalyptic fiction, but sci-fi, fantasy, anything not set in the present has developed the tendency to be relentlessly bleak. Where we experience hope it's supposed to be in some version of the present, even if it's a heightened one like the superhero movies or a near future where the basic model hasn't changed. If people feel hopeful looking at any alternative to this world, they might develop some desire to change things. Post-apocalyptic fiction takes this illogic all the way to its conclusion, saying that if things change everything will go to shit and you will long for the world as it is now. This is the kind of mentality used by domestic abusers to keep people in line too: make people fear leaving the situation and grow dependent upon and comfortable with their abuse.


Based project, thank you for your work.


You might want to redesign that hand logo, It looks like someone making the wanker hand gesture.


Good job moddos




Go fuck yourself fash infiltrator


>I'd like to ask if anyone can come up with a slightly more catchy name for our new section than 'rhetoric', cause that sounds a bit cumbersome to me even though I came up with it, so yeah, open to suggestions.
spitballing here:
&ltown zone
&ltdunk tank
&ltrebuke record
&ltcounterpoint compendium
&ltantithesis alley
&ltcontradiction crossing
&ltdogma terminal
&ltarticulation station
&ltdiscourse concourse
or you could just call it "arguments" and when a rightoid accuses you of having none you can just link them the entire category


Can we have an article on Sakai


Is there anyway for article narration to be implemented on the site?
I'd be open to recording.


Subheading under COINTELPRO


[citation needed]


Technically isn't the burden of proof on Sakai(sts) to prove that the man even exists in the first place?


File: 1608528337761.gif ( 1.23 MB , 420x313 , source.gif )

Looking forward to it. Tired of seeing shit on other wikis, such as wikipedia, that present things as facts with no room for disagreement.


I went back and looked at it again. Its a left hand - nice touch.


bruh this is awesome holy shit!

I have finals now, but will definitely try contributing to this site, I made a huge list of notes when reading Jason Hickel and other books discussing how capitalism hasn't decreased poverty.


extremely based, will contribute if i can


>all those new user accounts written in CamelCase
>all those new user accounts with a number at the end
99 % spambots


I've asked this question from the start of this idea and no one has yet provided a good answer. What will you do to prevent your wiki from failing the same way that Wikipedia and the many Wikipedia alternatives have failed?


whatever problems wikipedia has are irrelevant because nobody here is trying to be like wikipedia


I'm sure the Rational Wiki people told themselves that too.


How about putting debunks of right-wing youtubers in their specific page.
let's say you make a page about PragerU, you explain the story behind the channel, and then, you put the title of a video, their arguments and then the debunk, something like this:

>PragerU, what is it.

>Their purpose on the capitalist web.
->Why are communist dumb dumb.
→Communist are dumb dumbs because…
–&ltNo communist are no dumb dumbs.
->Global Climate? more like hoax climate.
→Global Climate is a hoav because of this and that.
–&ltThis and that are bullshit because of this and he's wrong because of this and this…

What do you think?
It's pretty much what >>509723 says, debunking and classifying reactionary and neolib propaganda by name and shit, and it's easier than to just make a video, and could become kinda viral because someone puts a comment on a video linking to the leftypedia article which debunks it and that's it, and then, knowing right-wing youtubers, they would go out and attack the website, giving it more publicity. Put there a link to bunkerchan on the front, describing what is it, in like a dinstinguished post sort of way, and that's a gateway to here.


>leftypedia is the current version of the old abandoned 'marxistpedia' which was a project started by leftypol users back in the day, so I think this is sort of like a homecoming in a way.

This is incorrect.

Marxistpedia, AFAIK, was not started by leftypol anons. It was started by someone else and then FOUND by a leftypol anon. Marxistpedia was never "abandoned" as such. The owner was absent for a month and when he returned he realized that the leftypol anon he promoted to an admin position had used his privileges to COPY the entire site and rebrand it as "leftypedia." When the owner realized what happened he banned that user and a few days later simply deleted Marxistpedia out of frustration.

It was a really disappointing series of events, especially since the site had been online for years and was only beginning to pick up new contributors.


>How about putting debunks of right-wing youtubers in their specific page.
This is a good idea. Fuck I wish Youtube never got rid of the video response feature.


That sounds a lot like he abandoned it, anon.


Instead of rhetoric, how about "articulation" or "arguments", or simply "left-wing views" idk


Left hand fist is actually by socdems. Communist fist is done with the right hand.


What failure are you talking about exactly?


>He didn't abandon it
>He just abandoned it for a month and then deleted it


Some tips from a former admin of a few fan wikis:

Don't try and create pages for every topic, book, or pamphlet that is related to the topic. For example, the Marx page has a ton of dead links to his works. It's better to start small sections and fill them out, and if the sections get big, then move them into separate articles. You should only have separate articles where you're prepared to have a lot to write for them.

Secondly, skip the general information on things, unless the record needs to be corrected. A lot of the Wikipedia page on Marx is fine, for example, but it would be more useful to point out where it goes right and where it goes wrong.

Third, going along with the first point, consolidate information (like rebuttals to common arguments etc.) and only *then* expand when things get too big.

Use the referencing system, take advantage of external links to places like Wikipedia.

You want to cultivate a place that has *new* information, not just rephrasing of existing information. That means diving deep into topics which aren't covered well by Wikipedia or existing knowledge bases. For example, the Wikipedia page on the value-form has some strange "criticism" section which veers into some debate about capitalism vs communism and Milton Friedman.

Don't be afrid of creating articles which aren't really "encyclopedia" articles as such. Stuff like reading lists, synopses, summaries, lists of references, lists of arguments etc. are really good and useful.

You should probably institute some rule against factional editing. In that sense, Stalinists should keep out of the article on Marx, for example, unless they have something to add about Marx or Stalin's interpretation of Marx - and if they do, it should be marked out as such.

Don't be afraid to use "this section needs expanding" or "this section needs more references" headers, and don't be afraid of "citation needed" marks. That's the sort of stuff that lets people expand on things without needing to write much, and also makes the wiki look more credible to an outside viewer.


Abandoning something and deleting it in a fit of rage are two different things. The owner of Marxistpedia kept the site online for YEARS with minimal outside contributions and only deleted it after the leftypol sperg copied his site and redirected traffic to the new one.


>Abandoning something and deleting it in a fit of rage are two different things.

They really aren't lol.

Are you the old admin? Be honest now.


Just don't delete your website in a fit of rage lol
God it's a good thing you never ran any of the leftypol discords. That shit happened constantly.
(The leftypedia guy tells a different story btw)


>Are you the old admin? Be honest now.
No. The owner never visited leftypol afaik. I contributed to a lot of the articles under the name Obrien.


You know you can still do that if you want, though, right? Like it being a new site really doesn't change anything.


Bullshit, before the leftypedia anon mirrored his site the owner had already disappeared and left the wiki to be being overrun with spambots, I remember trying to contact him and he simply never responded. And another reason was that marxistpedia had a leftcom bias and the guy didn't want other ideologies contributing to the site. I remember the board protesting over this.


>You know you can still do that if you want, though, right?
I don't want to.
>Bullshit, before the leftypedia anon mirrored his site the owner had already disappeared and left the wiki to be being overrun with spambots
The owner of Marxistpedia promoted the leftypol anon (CyberSynGang) in order to deal with spam. That was his job. The leftypol anon decided to give up on Marxistpedia like 2 months later even though the spam accounts were manageable and we were gaining traction.
>And another reason was that marxistpedia had a leftcom bias and the guy didn't want other ideologies contributing to the site.
Completely false. The MLs from leftypol complained about the anti-Stalinist stance on the site and the owner agreed to allow other perspectives. In the end it made no difference since the MLs barely contributed anything.


Look, I am not the owner of leftypedia, I was not around back then so I don't really know what went on, maybe you're right and the admin of leftypedia totally stabbed the other guy in the back, but history belongs to those who show up, if the marxistpedia admin deleted his site then how can he expect anyone to take his side when the site only survives thanks to the new admin? I am trying to do what's best for leftypol by working with this guy, if the old admin was still around, maybe I'd be working with him instead, but he isn't.


checking in
is leftypedia dead?


File: 1608528340370.gif ( 10.98 KB , 220x259 , ping pong.gif )

i just pinged it and
the websites works for me



Are you saying leftypol admins/users do not have control of Leftypedia, and instead it's some rando?


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Well, I mean, yeah, I suppose that's true, though he is ex-leftypol. But I've talked to him and he's happy to transition the site over to us gradually, we don't really have the cash on hand to take over hosting right now though so I think he's being very generous.


taking an immediate looks, I'm not a fan of how some of the "refutation" pages are formated, for example just looking at
I think it could use a few more subtitles that focus on common, specific arguments rather than writing one whole essay on the extent at which socialism can work. I don't see a page like that in its current state enlightening any minds.
I understand it's a wikipedia and anyone can contribute to it, but trying to reformat someone else's essay like that requires a ton of work as opposed to just starting with that format from scratch.


It's certainly a mouthful, but I mean come on, look how much work has gone into it. Obviously, I think that we should have shorter and simpler answers too, but, 'socialism can't work' is quite a huge question.


While Anarcho-Bolshevik has done good. I personally dont like how rhetorical and charged the writing of An-Bol is. A more neutral style will make you look more credible and will provoke normies and rightists less.


ok just don't defend the reactionary regimes in Iran, China, North Korea, and Syria.




Marx and The Enlightenment




File: 1608528341259.jpeg ( 22.01 KB , 297x170 , raional marketing.jpeg )

This is a very good article because it exposes the critical theorists for being proponents of austerity.

It does speak of transforming capitalist consumerism into a socialist one, it doesn't actually describe how this works.
I think capitalist consumerism is too passive, the consumer commodities don't actually empower people to do stuff with it.

The article correctly points out that the expectation of the masses to have a life of plenty should be fostered precisely because capitalism cannot deliver one it. I do think that the impulse for frugality as a virtue can be instrumentalised, though because it can be used to against luxury consumption (stuff only the capitalist class can afford). So that the position is that you argue for increasing material wealth of the masses and reduce the material wealth of the elites. When a proletarian consumes it virtuous and civilised but when the rulers do it's degenerate and a vice.

We still have to argue for fixing the climate issue, and here we have to point out that the main problem is corporation retaining control over production consider that the technology for producing far more sustainable consumer goods do exists, and the reason this isn't being realises is private control over production, so that the more control is remove from private corporations the more higher the potential for sustainability.
We have to move away from the corporate model that wants to turn commodities into services because ultimately that means that the people that have show the least concern for ecology have to give up the most control.

There is sort of a claim that if corporations were to retain ownership over goods and only rented them out to people as a service that would enable them to finally produce sustainable consumption, but in reality it will do the exact opposite, they would still try to reduce cost in short term calculation to max out short term profits and by removing the interest of the consumer to have a product that at least lasts a few years because "who cares if it's a rental-object", there would be dramatic acceleration of wasteful production and shortening of product life-span.

Where i don't agree with the article that is the defence of marketing producing desires for people. First desire is a negative emotion it's a strong lack, and it's basically attacking the psychological well being of people. I don't think we can just use the capitalist way of producing wants and needs, we have to transform advertisement from advocating for fashionable consumption to rational consumption. Instead of yanking psychological buttons of lower instincts, we should go towards appealing to higher cognition. Basically talk to the more recently evolved part of the human brain that reasons. Marketing should advocate products on the basis of their objective qualities. Buy this product because it will make your life easer, or Buy this product because it will enhance your capacity to do stuff and so on…


We could use some of the sources in this list dedicated to debunking anti-communist myths:


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Hello guys, I've now got admin permissions on leftypedia, so I can create pages and approve edits directly. If you want to use the site I recommend you create a user account, which I can then approve once you make a productive edit (to distinguish from spambots), then you won't have to wait for approval anymore and can create articles yourself. Or, just ask me and I can create an article for you if you're desperate to make one as your first edit. Thanks guys, I hope we can make this project cool together!

t. Caballo


Actually, now I'm a bit stumped. The 'essay' namespace was still on the site, but now it's a bit neglected. Should all essays just be considered 'rhetoric' and moved over there, or should that only apply to things that are direct arguments for debunking poltards?


Put whatever is in here in there as "measures to protect oneself against the police" or something.

Also you should be making a chronology on all of this stuff


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BTW, could spanish militarymen killed because of corruption inside the francoist/modern spanish army count as victims of capitalism?
26 of May of 2003
Plane crashes on Trebizonda. Full of spanish militarymen, it crashes because of shitty deals. Tha plane was reported without an operating black box since 46 days ago. The flight was supposed to cost 150.000€, but only 36000€ actually reached the operating company, the other 114000€ were lost during the supposed "chain of trust". This involved.
>Spain pays NAMSA, an OTAN company.
>In turn, NAMSA outsorces to Chapman Freeborn.
>This one, in turn, outsorces to Volga-Dnepr, based on Ireland.
>This one, in turn, outsorces to Adriyatik ltd, based on Turkey.
>And finally, this one outsorces to JTR, based on Lebanon.
&ltAnd that's how 114000 € went down the drain and 75 people died. I mean, they're militarymen, but technically they were killed because of shitty per-profit motives inside both the spanish goverment and NATO, and they're still human beings.

227 military men died because of poor maintenance of airplanes during 1949 and 1978, crashing to the ground in a ball of fire because of such conditions.
>First generation, 31 out of 141 dies, a 21,9% mortality rate.
>Second generation, 27 out of 135 dies, a 20% mortality rate.
>Third Generation, 11 out of 70 dies, a 15,7% of mortality rate.
>Fifth generation, 11 out of 54 dies, a 20.3% mortality rate.
>9th generation, 13 out of 79 dies, a 16,4% mortality rate
>13th generation, 14 out of 84 dies, a 16.6% mortality rate.
This puts the mortality rate of the spanish air-force during peace-time (due to accident thanks to corruption taking the money for repairs to the personal banks of coronels and generals, this is, they were used to pay for bitches, drugs and alcohol instead that for repairing them planes) at the same level that the british air force during the battle for britain, to put an example:
>29 out of the 143 polish airmen were killed during the battle of Britain, having a mortality rate of 20,2%
>First generation, 31 out of 141 dies, a 21,9% mortality rate.
Even higher

The BMR, which means Blindado Medio con Ruedas (Medium Armoured Vehicle with Wheels gotta specify that) was developed by the General Dynamics Santa Bárbara Sistemas, a spanish manufacturer which was bought by an american company. These BMR were bought by the Jeme (Four star general) Carlos Villar, and they were shit. Fifteen people died on accidents from the invasion of Irak to 2007, meanwhile the casualties on the american side were pretty much 0 with their RG-31. If we include bombing attempts, that number goes up to 25.
So what?
Well, this Carlos Villar, after finalizing his carrer as a General, because of coincidences, became a big manager at such enterprise later, thanks to his services on the army. He conceded on GDSBS just so he can get a comfy job at the company later and get the big bucks.
Thus, those 25 people killed were killed thanks to corruption inside the capitalist system, specifically the capitalist army.

All of these are from a book in Spain called The black book of the spanish army, made by Luís Gonzalo Segura, expelled military man because of calling out corruption inside the army.




I just added a ton more detail to the section of Stalin's page about his life, I'll add sources later


where can I buy the book?
t.otro manolo


amazon supongo.
Podría ponerme a escribirlo en office como un monje del siglo nueve pero.


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En amazon


Kay, gracias


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First of all, fantastic - I've been waiting for basically this project for a good while. Will be signing up and looking to contribute stuff ASAP. On some other points:

>obscure definitions, internet-specific happenings, the building of INFOGRAPHICS
The whole post, but many times -this-. Internet happenings in particular give us the clearest opportunity to carve out a niche in many areas that projects like Wikipedia will avoid, not to mention, give us the chance at providing the earliest (and thus, domineering) narratives on what could be developing events or otherwise overlooked topics. Perhaps there should be a whole 'category' for it, even.

>or you could just call it "arguments" and when a rightoid accuses you of having none you can just link them the entire category
Now that is meme potential anon. Easy enough for anyone to digest, hits the rightists back with their own language.

1) Not sell out

>How about putting debunks of right-wing youtubers in their specific page.
100% yes, Best idea yet.
Concise, pithy sections because we know PragerU fans and their types don't tend to read a lot. Maybe a shortened form of a debunking at the top, followed by a list of instances in which they have used a particular argument (with a longer debunking underneath those), and maybe a list of referenced self-contradictions too. I want to see this for every single rightist YouTuber damnit.

From what I scanned of a few articles (e.g. Marx), there seems to have been a lot of copying over from WP's articles. To go with what I said above on creating a niche, I think it would be wise to create a compendium that people feel they can't really get elsewhere, so creating some writings or adopting a perspective alternate to the mainstream of WP's views would probably go a long way in helping to generate this sense of distinction that would very much help us for wider adoption.
Good idea re:factional editing, too.


File: 1608528342912.jpg ( 24.72 KB , 480x539 , equality.jpg )

Hiya guys, I have been copying over anarcho-bolshevik's works to the general rhetoric category for general use and editing. Here is the homepage for the rhetoric section:


I haven't changed any of the text of the actual articles yet, though I may go into them and try my hand at improvement. Please follow the guidelines, if you want to cut half of the text out and rewrite the rest, it may be better to create a new article to present your alternate take.

Oh, well, new users can't make articles, so, just ask me to make you a new page and edit it in word in the meantime, I guess.


In the meantime does anyone have a better quality version of this image?


Requesting a way to show that american systemic racism is a symptom of capitalism and not separate from it.


Look at the history of the US. What started off as enforced inequality between white slaves and black slaves, eventually turned into inequality as descendants of slaves and former slaves had to labour and did not own land, while most land-owners and industrialists were white. The racism comes in because it was taught to people, you had phrenology and shit, which tried to find "scientific" explanations for the reason why blacks where slaves, while whites weren't. It was basically a post-hoc explanation of a phenomena , differences in technological development between Europe and Africa (for more on that check out Jared Diamon's Guns, Germs and Steel).


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I wish I could help with this however I'm a theorylet


TBH you don't really need to approach this from a 'theory' perspective, you don't even need to use sources in the rhetoric section, just pick your favourite (or least favourite) anticommie argument and have a crack at it.

The one that immediately comes to mind which isn't on there yet is I guess 'normal people are too dumb to manage businesses, that's why class is needed'.

That's a big topic, sounds like a bit of a toughie, I guess it would involve going back to say how the founding of America is so interlinked with and economically motivated by slavery.


sounds like you have a point of view that you're looking to reinforce instead of looking for ways to build/improve your pov


0. Liberals believe legal equality is equality.

1. Blacks were imported to america as the lowest class.

2. They eventually became legally equal but as the (effective) totality of them were starting from scratch they pooled up at the bottom of society.

3. This caused them to tend towards the kinds of things the bottom of a society tends towards.

4. Liberals, now believing them equal, needed an explanation for this failure - for in liberal idealism that legal equality should constitute 'equal opportunity', as that's what capitalism is justified with. One kind of liberal decided the blacks must be morally inferior and that explains their poor performance, another kind of liberal decided the blacks must be being held down by some non economic force which must be moral inferiority of some other parts of society.

5. Both of these kinds of liberals trying to work their brand of solution to this problem into society over time has resulted in the present situation, which can be described as systemic racism, because both sides believe the fundamental problem is based on race.






The BLM is just a justification, the protesters are against capitalism, drived bt the material condiution and the class struggle.


>they are merely pretending to be liberals


File: 1608528344442.jpeg ( 53.38 KB , 512x512 , Stalin Hoxha.jpeg )

Does anybody have that comic about capitalism not being racist or sexist because capitalism is simply capitalism and doesn't take on inherit "national attributes".
It was Marx walking with some kid.


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File: 1608528344615-2.png ( 517.04 KB , 1018x506 , idpol 3.png )

here you go, please use QTDDTOT for this kind of thing though


And here's the full thing.


Isn't this just what the Great Soviet Encyclopedia is but digital?


Well, not really, cause not only is that no longer being produced, but this is not a general knowledge encyclopedia, it is about leftist topics. Plus, the rhetoric section is completely non-encyclopedic.


wait why did they round up those people and kill the kid's mom?


>typing in www.
the absolute state of you


rationalwiki is already a leftypedia but for redditor left-liberals


Both sites are full of right-wing propaganda, rationalwiki is more libertarian, while wikipedia is liberal, with some country-specific ones being outright fascist.


Rationalwiki is for SJWs and atheism plussers. Hence why we're not using rationalwiki.


Rationalwiki is what happens when you try to create a Wikipedia alternative and [b]completely ignore the systemic causes of Wikipedia's problems[/b]. In other words, it's leftypedia's future.








File: 1608528346345.jpeg ( 39.79 KB , 600x400 , syshock.jpeg )

second this explain the the systemic causes of Wikipedia's problems.




how can one contribute to this list? i know at least several more incidents in my country's history that could be added there.


Giving contributions to the wiki and helping sort the 'tagme''s on the https://leftypics.booru.org should be a collective [b]top priority[/b] for a little while for oldfags on here.
I'm gonna start helping out.




File: 1608528346954.jpg ( 45.32 KB , 705x192 , featured.JPG )

There is one bug on the leftypedia main page.
whenever i click on "more" under the featured article about kautsky, it redirects me to marxistpedia which doesn't work.
pls, leftypedia mods, fix it


this is cool and good


anarchism is inherently left wing and right wing anarchism is gibberish
someone please fix this page. i can't do it now




Fuck wikipedia, Leftypedia go!


how do I make a new page? I want to make one on the Economic Calculation Problem


I think that it is time to just "copy-paste" these kind of effort posts from reddit onto leftypedia, since these leftist subreddits can get banned now. Has anyone tried to contact the mods of these subreddits allready?


I tried to make it for you but the site is going through some hosting/rehosting issues right now so I guess it's read only, sorry. Please just use this thread to write it out in the meantime (or word obviously)


I am tagging 100 posts a day. "tagme" will be cleared out by August or earlier.


I remember doing that on the old booru 2 years ago… of course with the new posts that's a lot of tagme's to do again.


Can we clone wikipedia STEM articles onto leftypedia as well so we don't use that abysmal site?


File: 1608528348325.png ( 443.34 KB , 1471x1520 , archiving.png )

I suggest downloading wayback pdfs and other files and doing what the translators of DxD LNs did, create a hidden archive site for useful books. https://occult-research.club/


Reminder that this has been created in the face of the deletion of communist subreddits: https://communism.lemmy.ml/docs/index.html


damn they had one chance to get rid of downvotes and they blew it




>Rhetoric page actually follows the definition of rhetoric
The grammar KGB are pleased


This thread should be on >>>/hobby/ >>>/tech/ or >>>/edu/ since its more of a collaborative project than an internet discussion


that site has existed for a while. It was made by a guy from r/communism.


Shuffling off active threads to the dead boards is basically glowing for free.


True, but again this isn't the first time reddit has been hunting communist subreddits

>dead boards
Suuure bud
>glowing for free
Shut up glowstick.


Is there any way to make the wiki more like Wikiwand? Where we can have better readability; so, perhaps add some options to set font size, whether the font is serif or sans-serif, dark mode or light mode, or the amount of characters per line.


Reminding everyone that waybackarchive pages can be archived in archive.is
Example: http://archive.is/dhv17


That shit's proprietary - no thanks.


Adapt some of its ideas then, rather than the code if that's an issue.
Do you really run a computer with no proprietary software?


you don't?


Most of mine is, but a couple drivers I let be proprietary because there's probably no risk to it, and in fact they run a bit better than free drivers. Either way, what are the negative implications of Wikiwand being proprietary?


Requesting someone to write an article about idealism in understandable language (don't say "Idealism is the idea that reality is defined by human perception" because that's very vague.). This is a topic that is brought up a lot here but that seemingly few people have a grasp of.


Recommendation: Make a reading list but add some precursors to each; e.g. before you read Das Kapital read such-and-such works by Marx and Hegel.


I agree but that's a terrible example in particular. Reading marx makes it easier to understand hegel


Why though? Hegel came before Marx and Marx's works built upon Hegels. Is it because Marx's works are more easy to understand or something?


Yes, its easier to understand hegelian concepts as they relate to economic production, something grounded in all our day-to-day reality. Rather than first trying to learn these concepts in the abstract through studying pure philosophy.


I think there should be a "wastes of capitalism" page, something that lists the ways in which capitalism is inefficient. For instance, drug companies spend a lot of effort trying to come up with meaningless variations to their products that only serve to extend IP "rights".


File: 1608528350155.jpg ( 172.36 KB , 1800x1205 , 1426315901263.jpg )



Also: I think the site is fixed now, or at least it seems to be, so if anyone wants to request new pages and so on let me know now.


File: 1608528350327.png ( 109.71 KB , 1920x984 , Screenshot_2020-07-11 Crea….png )

Whoever came up with Google's Captcha should be executed with a nuclear missile. I've tried clearing local storage for the domain, using a VPN, restarting the browser, just about anything else suggested that I looked up; I've been here for at least half an hour trying to deal with this damned Captcha and it doesn't work. No matter what I try I end up at best getting the Captcha to appear, be solved, and then it gives me these red boxes after which it refuses to even come up. The Captchas themselves don't even work a lot of the time; I [b]did[/b]'''' click every single bus/crosswalk/fire hydrant/whatever, but it just wants to keep farming free data off me.

Is there any way to implement something like hCaptcha instead? Or literally anything else?


I think it's just you bub. It works fine for me usually, and sometimes it doesn't work at all for me.


You have to use Google Chrome and be logged into your google account, then it's very easy.


File: 1608528350568.png ( 359.77 KB , 588x598 , 0f12c647af99a3095550efd235….png )

Would it be even easier if I email the NSA a video of me doing it?


I've thought this is annoying too. It'd be one thing if it only happened at account registration, but even for people with trusted accounts it seems unnecessary to have to do this captcha every time we make an edit that contains a link. Honestly it just makes me want to format the links I add in a way that the wiki won't recognize and then ask someone to clean up after instead.


>implying they can't just track you anyway.


just tried to create a page for the democrats sorry for its oversimplification


Check this out: Cuban Wikipedia. Pretty neat to see (use google translate or whatever) https://www.ecured.cu/


What's the deal with the spambots? Why are they coming here?


We need a section for "conduct" or something like that. What to bring to a protest, how to find and interact with a local party, Internet OPSEC, etc.


File: 1608528351175.pdf ( 1.69 MB , Anon OPSEC.pdf )



We also need like a capitalist cringe collection or something. Here's one entry:
>Italians Found Way to 3-D Print Key Ventilator Piece for $1 to Help Battle Coronavirus—So the Company With the Patent Is Threatening to Sue


Heh, didn't I just upload that meme to leftypic.booru?


File: 1608528351372.png ( 219.92 KB , 620x433 , Ebookpdf.png )

1. login to archive.org to get download encrypted PDF/ EPUB options, download the link file
2. Open link file in adobe digital editions ,it will download the file
3.once the file is open In adobe digital editions, go to file, then click show in explorer & you get the encrypted PDF/EPUB
4.get some eBook DRM Removal software, I recommend Epubsoft Adobe DRM Removal
5: get DRM free file

Note: Sometimes after you login in to archive.org to get the link to download PDF/ EPUB . The link disappears when the page has fully loaded (might be due to the recent Lawsuit ) refresh the page and quickly click on the download link worked for me


I'm pretty sure people can find something to contribute to this wiki. Why is this thread so inactive? Even the admin has been absent for a while now.


Why not scrape the Great Soviet Encyclopedia? You could either scrape it in russian and use Google to translate it and other board volunteers to clean it up, or you could scrape it from https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/


>use Google to translate it
Russian speaker here, that is a terrible idea. Just ask the anons on the translation thread to help after you scrape it. As a side note you can also create a Russian version of Leftypedia for extra utility.


Is the matrix chat any good?


do that and link to you edit.


Would it be a bad idea to put this in text on the wiki?


Why the hell not?




The feds could pick up on it and start doing some targeting of some sort. Otherwise, let's do something like what >>3924 suggested.

Is it active? Secure?


>The feds could pick up on it and start doing some targeting of some sort
How would they pick up on it? What do you mean?
The OPSEC is just something someone wrote a while back and reposted in a pdf format. Take the text, tweak it (edit/replace words or phrases) and use it.


Then again… data tracing. So just transcript the text itself


Where exactly is the GSE? All the text here is in English and there seems to be no reference of such a category.


wtf i hate wikipedia now
i think i will stop using the internet now too comrate, since it was developed from capitalist ARPANET ;)


That's such a fucking nonsequitur it hurts, go back to fellating wikipedia on reddit.


Feel free to make an argument any time. You can start by naming at least (5) Wikipedia articles with inaccuracies on them.


>(5) Wikipedia articles with inaccuracies on them.
The article on Stalin, Beria, the CIA, the KGB, Nazino etc. etc.
>make an argument
The argument has long since been made wikifag. Wikipedia is an unreliably sourced rubbish bin owned and moderated by, primarily, non-leftist, biased random nobodies. They run the place like a fucking chan and anyone can edit almost any article. The only articles worth shit are STEM related and even they are usually too bloated to be used by anyone except those who already understand/know the content in the first place. Any recent historiography or politics there is shite.


>>(5) Wikipedia articles with inaccuracies on them.
The article on Stalin, Beria, the CIA, the KGB, Nazino etc. etc.
LOL wiki-fag BTFO


What's so bad about those articles in particular?


Here's a decent primer but it's not comprehensive because it's still missing an analysis of Wikipedia's utterly broken administrative/community policing structure.


>They run the place like a fucking chan and anyone can edit almost any article.
Only if the article isn't locked to IP edits. And 9 times out of 10 your edit will be reverted by one of the Chosen Few.


Exactly, and many pages, particularly the more important ones, have different kinds of specialized software that is run by several people watching a single page. Bad-faith edits are often reverted in moments.

Wikipedia does have a problem with readability though. Way too often the definitions and descriptions of things leave many questions to the audience, but that goes for almost any resource. That is, however, something we can be mindful of on Leftypedia.


Its only reverted on articles that are very popular or if the edit isn't consistent with the ideological narrative of the site. As seen in the afore mentioned poorly made pages. If you write an unsourced statement about "le gorillions" or Stalin being a psycho, it'll stay up. Put in something about him not being "le great evul man" and its removed.


That is not true, largely because of something called NPOV. So long as you have credible sources you are welcome to add differing views on a subject, so long as you don't claim them to be the single truth when there's controversy over something. From the article on the Holodomor for instance:
>Whether the Holodomor was genocide is still the subject of academic debate, as are the causes of the famine and intentionality of the deaths. Some scholars believe that the famine was planned by Joseph Stalin to eliminate a Ukrainian independence movement. While some historians dispute its characterization as a genocide.
Then there's the article on Stalin, which does indeed call him cruel and vindictive and such, however does also have this in the same section to counteract it:
>although he was capable of acts of kindness to strangers
>Other historians linked his brutality not to any personality trait, but to his unwavering commitment to the survival of the Soviet Union and the international Marxist–Leninist cause.
Honestly I'm not sure to what extent he could be characterized as cruel and all, but it can't that far from reality in any case. Though of course a proper leftist bias is necessary at times, Wikipedia isn't nearly that bad as some may think for being centrist. Even in the lede it mentions what some people merely consider him to be, rather than asserting that he was "evil" or whatever:
>Conversely, his totalitarian government has been widely condemned for overseeing mass repressions, ethnic cleansing, deportations, hundreds of thousands of executions, and famines that killed millions.


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>That is not true, largely because of something called NPOV. So long as you have credible sources you are welcome to add differing views on a subject
This is not water-tight however. I've had personal experience with this where I would edit a page and provide a source (or remove poorly written sections and write a detailed reason for why) and it would be reverted immediately and without a trace, no matter how well written I made the edit. Ironically shitpost edits I have made stay up for longer than non-shitpost edits (such as citing Hitlers date of death as 1979 and writing a small section about how he escaped to Argentina which stayed up for a month) This was years ago, so the bots may have changed, but the point is, wikipedia is extremely unreliable. A centrist positions is still shite nonetheless, especially since it has contradictory ideas that leave a reader unable to make heads or tails of the subject. As Grover Furr put it, western historiographers have grown accustomed to citing one another as definitive sources and ignoring the primary material, and this is even more prevalent with wikipedia which rarely cites direct primary documents and often uses one-sided lists of sources. The most egregious example is Nazino, which relies on Werth almost exclusively (pic related).

TL;DR: centrist ideology is still shite, fuck using that site for political or historical study.


What's wrong with Werth in particular?


If you're genuinely asking this question on LEFTYPOL you're on the wrong site.
However I'll humor you with a simple response, he's a hack, just like Montefiore and many other "stalin-era historians". While there is plenty of "sourcing", the sources themselves are either unconfirmed/unreliable or do not corroborate the statements made by the author. I can't be arsed to dig through that shit book again for specific instances so don't ask. If you are seriously interested ask Ismail or other effort-fags to write a leftypedia article on it, you certainly won't find it on wikipedia.


Someone use this
some annotated bibliographies for books on Chavez/bolivarian revolution: https://pastebin.com/y4CVgm9P

here's one on the cuban revolution: https://pastebin.com/kKXwEL55


Hi dudes. I'm CommieKarlovy. I have never used this Bunkerchan before, so sorry if i'm braindead. "Where is the GSE exactly? That page is in English" I believe They mean't that one could get a copy of the GSE and scrape + translate, OR/AND use that page.


Guy who started this thread is working on it


Haven't done that, but sounds like a great idea as a thing on the top/bottom of the page - "Listen to this Article". Only problem is that articles will get revised very often, so maybe it could be "Listen to this Article (As of July 22nd 2020)" or something.


Good idea, you'd probably find some audio-anons who could get it done.


Excellent idea, as an alternative to Wikipedia and so well-written articles by leftists can survive for a while.


I personally think they should stay separate - I mainly use the Essay space because I write papers that aren't *exclusively* refutations, but I could move some of my essays over to the Rhetoric page, as I feel like that makes sense. I think it should only apply to things that are direct arguments for debunking whatever.


Certainly! I can't do any myself since as a mate attests "I sound 8" but I could help with pronunciation of Slavic words.


New article on Israel out, do give feedback: https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Israel


Sourcing is good but it is very one-sided. It lacks any mentions of (for example) the Palestinians being largely the genetic descendants of the original jewish inhabitants.
Or the fact that many Israeli immigrants were holocaust victims who were sent to Israel by British agreement (which ironically reflected a scrapped German plan to simply send away the Jews instead of the camps).
Moreover one must also consider the fact that the Jews have their own legitimate claims.
I would also add in some material about Stalin's original support for the idea before they were turned into a NATO outpost.


TL;DR: don't be too onesided. A good article/essay/argument presents the counter-arguments of the other side and addresses them or at least accommodates their claims.


Any resources on those first two?


rename to Palestine


The one about genetics is something I don't have the source for anymore (old harddrive pooped it) however it is logical onsidering that palestinians are essentially the people who lived in former-Israel under the Roman and Ottoman empires for millenia.


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As for the British agreement. Just look up their documents on Zionism. A good example is Churchills work on Zionism vs Bolshevism. Also the Balfour declaration (pic 1 related) which involved Rothschilds pressuring the British government.


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Based Cuban wikipedia replacement
From the page on the United States. https://www.ecured.cu/Estados_Unidos
"It has historically been characterized by forcibly stripping other nations and countries of territories and natural resources to place them at the service of their companies and monopolies. With just 4% of the world population, it consumes 25% of the energy produced on the planet , and despite its wealth, more than a third of its population does not have medical care assured."


Why is Portuguese and Spanish so cool? Estados Unidos sounds much cooler.


Coming up with an NZ page now. Suggestion: We should focus on using Real GDP with the value of the USD in y2000.


Also what was that figure for measuring gross outputs of commodities or whatever that was analogous to GDP?


There's either gross national product or net material product. The latter is oriented to describing the output of socialist countries, or even capitalist ones where GDP lacks.


Is it just me or are the rhetoric pages way too big? Like I get that thorough explaination might be necessary, but I want short concise points that I can copy and paste to use on social media.


SO someone should just add short summaries


Found an excellent compilation debunking anti-communist myths to use for the wiki: https://theirishmarxistleninist.wordpress.com/2018/02/23/anti-communist-myths-debunked/


You gave up and just used GDP instead?




We could make a summary be at the beginning. I honestly like that they are so big. Also I just found out about the no name thing (sounds a bit silly in my opinion).

Anyhow, I would like some sources for the Black Book Page's (https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Black_Book_of_Communism) "Popularity in Right-wing Media and Arguments" portion (as it is very small right now and i think having it be big would be nice), the Traditionalism page (https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Traditionalism)
to be thicker and also very specialized as to on the interwined-ness of Traditionalism and Rightism, the US page (https://leftypedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_America) to be way thicker and lastly the religion page (https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Religion) to be pretty indepth on religion and capitalism. Sorry for such a big request. Anyhow, thanks guys for existing!


Thanks to the contributor who added stuff to the rel and trad pages.


For anyone else who reads books, do contribute by writing about them a bit if you can. Some pages we need are:
>Das Kapital
>Contribution to Critique of Political Economy‏‎
>The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte‏‎

We could also use pages for:
>The Cold War
>Mao Zedong
>Amadeo Bordiga


>Amadeo Bordiga
That is going to turn into a leftcom wankfest smattered with ML trolling
Cue Bookchin memes

Other than that good idea for page topics


Damnit I read Tolstoy not theory (because they don't sell any where I live) :l


Tolstoy is just as important as well as Dostoevsky if you want to understand the environment prior to the 1905 and 1917 revolution.


Are there plans for translating pages? I could help with that.


I agree that we need a Bordiga/ICP article (don't forget bilan).


Try this: go to EcuRed (https://www.ecured.cu/EcuRed) and translate articles on it that are relevant to Leftypedia. So for instance, take the page on imperialism, translate it, and then add where appropriate to the Leftypedia page on imperialism.


Yes. The translation thread on >>>/edu/ is a good start


Crime and Punishment is my favourite book :)


Since this thread sinks way too fast, and is rather academic in its content, shouldn't it go in /edu/?


Let's keep it for the visibility. It stays afloat by its own anyway.


Make a thread there, but keep this one alive.


Right now we have both capitalist and fascist cringe collections:
Go ahead and add some more to these if you will. There are a few other categories as well.


Anyone add in the stuff from >>702127 ?


Not yet, so far we've just covered actual Nazis.


File: 1608528356580.png ( 51.99 KB , 1639x304 , Screenshot_2020-08-11 Impe….png )

Here is the new version of the section that deals with the role of missionaries in imperialism. Can anyone bring up more quotes, especially from the Quran or any other holy writings?


Has anyone here read The Origin of the Family? If you have, do make an article for it here: https://leftypedia.org/index.php?title=The_Origin_of_the_Family&action=edit




How's it going comrades? ya winning?


Someone should post the Evola or whatever Negroid sperm quote in to

Also how do we upload images? i have been having major trouble with it


File: 1608528357004.jpg ( 109.83 KB , 500x479 , london sydney.jpg )

Don't know if it's fascist, but add this fucking retard's derailing rants to it https://boards.4channel.org/co/thread/116973033


More debunking of anti-Stalin criticisms has been posted. The latest one: the "Doctor's plot".



Is there a real source for that quote? I haven't found it.

Here's the link to upload images: https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Special:Upload


I'm writing an article on privatization. Spew everything about it at me.


File: 1608528357322-0.jpg ( 815.14 KB , 2765x1308 , nazi private.jpg )

File: 1608528357322-1.png ( 600.33 KB , 1024x1311 , private vs personal proper….png )

It was coined to name Hitler's Nazi Economic system (pic and pdf related. You'll want to be specific as to what is the difference between Private and Personal property (pic related).



Oh yeah I've wrote about the nazi privatization. One thing I would love are specific criticisms of privatization and also the "results". I honestly know little about privatization but I knew I already had atleast a few sources on it.


Well For a criticism of Nazi privatization I can provide the following pdfs and info

Using Wages of Destruction by Adam Tooze I compiled all the food stuffs with on the chart in 1937 and found the average german proletarian family had approximately 1.96 million calories each year. This then translates into at least 5,361 calories each day.
I then check the average size of a german family which was 4 people; 2 parents and 2 kids using the fertility rate to get to my conclusion on this.
I check that the average male requires at least 2,500 to maintain his bodyweight For women this = 2,000 and for children 1600~2200 calories but this can be averaged into 1,900 calories each day. Combined this means the average german family needed to have 8,300 calories daily to maintain their weight and most likely their optimal health.
Taking in the account the average familial calorie consumption of 5,361 calories a day to the required 8,300 this means
The average german family had only meet 64.6% of their required amount of calories in order to maintain their weight and most likely their health as well added with the fact that hitler was destroying the german reserves and accumulating massive debt to fund the army this means that if the germans didnt go full lebensruam and conquered most of europe by the 1940s by the least the german economy would not only be in shambles but the german population would be starving too creating a famine that would make the holodomor look like a fucking cakewalk.
Life was worse for the average person in pre-war Nazi Germany than it was Weimar Germany


The only beginning to any project can begin with us meeting each other in person. The first internationale was not founded by people on the internet.


the internet didnt exist during the 1800s bro


What page is this chart on?


New page on Solzhenitsyn + The Gulag Archipelago, check it out: https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Solzhenitsyn


Since the Wayback Archive thread is gone I'll repost some pertinent info on archiving source links and saving pdfs from the site.


File: 1608528358099.png ( 443.34 KB , 1471x1520 , archiving.png )

For those who are not aware of this BTW

The EFF also officially joined their legal team.

Some instructions (including pic related):
1. login to archive.org to get download encrypted PDF/ EPUB options, download the link file
2. Open link file in adobe digital editions ,it will download the file
3.once the file is open In adobe digital editions, go to file, then click show in explorer & you get the encrypted PDF/EPUB
4.get some eBook DRM Removal software, I recommend Epubsoft Adobe DRM Removal
5: get DRM free file

Note: Sometimes after you login in to archive.org to get the link to download PDF/ EPUB . The link disappears when the page has fully loaded (might be due to the recent Lawsuit ) refresh the page and quickly click on the download link.

Also please back up the following onto archive.is and other systems






































Very meagre, but a good start. There should be content about how he's heroized by the current Russian government (against the wishes of the people) and how he himself (and his wife) admitted to his works being fiction and hearsay. I think I can provide some good sources on the Archipelago later. As an example (untranslated sorry) there is a debunk that can be added. Natalia (his wife) made a statement to Posner (Russian libcuck journalist) that Solzhenitsyn never claimed the gulag killed 66 million, but even if he didn't that, many millions of people were killed there.

Наталия Солженицына: "66 миллионов пострадавших в гулаге, ЯКОБЫ, называет Солженицын. Ну приведите цитату! Этого нигде никогда нет!"

Привожу: "По подсчётам эмигрировавшего профессора статистики И.А. Курганова, от 1917 до 1959 года БЕЗ ВОЕННЫХ ПОТЕРЬ … обошлось нам в… 66,7 миллионов" (с) Архипелаг Гулаг том 2, страница 8
"всего мы потеряли от социалистического строя — 110 миллионов человек!" (с) соЛЖЕницын. Публицистика, Том 2, страница 451.

А реальные цифры привести?
Справка МВД СССР на имя Хрущёва от 1 февраля 1954 года (эти цифры Хрущ завысил в несколько раз, рассказывая о выдуманном им же культе личности тов. Сталина):
0.6 млн человек - расстрел (ЗА 32 ГОДА, КАРЛ!)
2.4 млн - лагеря и тюрьмы (ЗА 32 ГОДА, КАРЛ!)
0.8 млн - ссылка и высылка за границу (ЗА 32 ГОДА, КАРЛ!)
Это 3.78 млн за 32 года (всего пострадавших).
Это 0.12 млн в год пострадавших. То есть, "репрессии" коснулись менее чем 0.05% населения.
И какой процент из этого по-вашему невиновные? Или всех арестованных будем автоматически считать невиновными?


His wife's statements are covered but I've found nothing on her calling the works fiction. Can you provide sources?




That's very similar to the source used on the wiki page, but this one doesn't claim she said it was "fiction" either. Folklore does have fictive connotations however can also include the common tales of something, so, its stories, fact or fiction.


Is anyone here familiar with Ismat.info? They have a whole wiki dedicated to debunking dozens of soviet myths. This shit is begging for an english translation, we need some russian comrades in here.


We're very familiar, bits of it are translated on the Translation thread in >>2085




The Lend-Lease Act needs to be seriously worked on, it's pitifully under-sourced and under-written.
Feel free to use post related to flesh out the particulars. https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=921020


Folk-lore is essentially the same as fiction in Russian language.


Not letting this thread die


Move it to >>>/edu/ where it fucking belongs then


what are you even referring to


Anyone know where the admin of this site went? Seems they've been inactive for a long time.


No idea. Everyone's been annoyed about Cybersyn not being there.


Among other things missing




To that page and maybe even an article just on black sites




>In Thailand, the Voice of America relay station in Ban Dung District of Udon Thani Province was reported to be a CIA black site known as "Cat's Eye" or "Detention Site Green".
kek, voice of america indeed


Definitely needs some in depth (with images) post about those places. People don't realize how horrific the torture there is.


If this thread keeps sinking like this, it might as well just go to >>>/edu/


It's not sinking though. If it was that bad it would have been gone a long time ago by its own merit, however that's not the case. Plus, we need more awareness about this website, since it has a lot of information on useful topics of all sorts… information on various communist states that Wikipedia doesn't show, a debunk of the Holodomor narrative, how to protest, etc. Information is good, you won't get anywhere without it, and here it is in one place. Plus, we need more editors, so awareness is good for this as well.


It was, I bumped it with >>4037 on page 20 something


File: 1608528359932.gif ( 1.41 MB , 800x450 , pepe headphones.gif )

Archiving this thread so the DRM removal instructions are safe/secure.
I'm the anon who originally posted those 5 step DRM removal instructions in the Wayback Archive thread btw, thank you for saving and reposting them.


>extremely dedicated librarian/archivists peddling DRM
Makes me so fucking mad still to this day. Critical support for our archive.org comrades against the copyright menace, but man did they fuck up on this.


Our page on Israel is now quite substantial, come check it out/improve it if you can: https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Israel


Are any notable professors like Harvey or the Wolff on this?
It would be good to have some of that name recognition value.
Also it would shake the deletrious chan autist baggage.


Unlikely, academics already understand that wikis are garbage for consistent and accurate information. Unfortunately you refused to listen to this >>3804 and >>3948 and still have some very naive optimism about the future of this project.


It's an isolated wikipedia and helps us consolidate information on leftist topics without needing to ask unnecessary and repeatedly rehashed questions on this thread and simply refer to a basic wiki.



2 excellent posts on quora by David King (a ML quora poster) that dissect contradictive attacks by anti-communists


Looks like the owner has abandoned the site.

I wish we could actually arrange some kind of collective leadership for these projects instead of having to be led by one sperg after another.


I have permissions to do most things, what do you need?


>black belt
wtf i love Karate
also northern new england is unfortunately libertarian country.


Tae Kwon Do is better TBH


I play this and imagine myself fighting in a revolutionary war: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2UKhmH03uc
Please stahp posting youtube links that are blocked in my country. Make webms pls.


Yeah that's america though

Why would the workers state seek victory on the back of killing workers from another nation?
>If they had a strategic bomberlfleet they would have done Dresden style fire bombings as well
Bombing civilian targets just for the shits of it? I highly doubt it.


I literally posted all this shit the last thread
>no arguments of points to make
>but i she you post with a trip so i will just point that out for the 100000000th time
bro, i like it when you do this.

>oh it was actually the SP fault the sterilisations happened, shouldn't have resisted the state violence against the peasantry. Get back in your place dirty proles


>In a way it can be concluded that when socialism (or quasi-socialism, as was the case in the SFR Yugoslavia) is in danger of dying, something similar to what happens when capital is in danger happens. As in, when capitalism is danger, fascism props up to violently defend it, when socialism is danger, a vulgar quasi-socialist nationalism pops up to defend it (pretty much what the Socialist Party of Serbia, Milosevic's party when he ruled the FR Yugoslavia was.)
Now this, I like.There is a huge possibility, that when socialism is about to be dismantled via a revolution it activates in the midst of its crisis a group in intents to save it just as a self defense mechanism, but notice that just as fascism this can´t be born out of the blue, it is grown through the reproduclion of ideology, and realized when socialism crumbles, whether it be communism or a reversion to capitalism.Notice how, this is mostly a universal consequence of the transition between economic systems, an attitude fermented by those who live a \"good capitalism
Under-rated thread TBH


>Left is consistently the ugliest tree with the worst apples and I'm not fucking with it. I see it throughout history and I seen in the past 5 months. Don't build anything normal people can appreciate, its always some dumpster fire deathcult.
So support fascism then and stop bmowsing the website lol. You'll be on our side anyway. Just don't hold any punches or else you'll decelerate.
>Righv-wing utopia: White people are not enslaved
Remind me what wage slavery is again. Perhaps how Nazi Germany planned to restructure its economy
where did Om say that?


Any articles in particular that people would like written?


perhaps one on how labor vouchers work, good to just have one ready to link for people to read


Some detailed stuff on Lend-Lease based on what has been posted and some stuff on 'le Holodomeme' the current articles are just barebones and lacking




File: 1608528361372.pdf ( 1.69 MB , Anon OPSEC.pdf )

Use this


This document was already formatted onto the wiki, on top of a few other additions: https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Hacktivism

We already have a page on that here: https://leftypedia.org/wiki/Organizing
Anything you would like to see added to it?


Are you going to explain how communism has never worked? inb4 not real communism


It's worked every single fucking time. The problem is those countries are permanently under seige by capitalist ones because revolution has yet to come to the porky core, i.e. your pig pen known as burgerville, bongistan, France, and Germany. I don't know how fucking hard is it for you to accept that capitalists cannot abide by any non porky country existing. If they cannot rape and pillage it for immense profit it is an "undemocratic, unfree, authoritarian """"regime""""".


Soviet healthcare is a good topic
Some starter info:
- https://mega.nz/folder/LIhjFKrA#ey8UpJYWA46ZjZkGjWlP6g (inside russian medicine, red medicine)
- https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1981/11/05/the-health-crisis-in-the-ussr-an-exchange/
- https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/35/6/1406/660153
- https://www.academia.edu/18309229/Anomalies_in_Soviet_healthcare
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1025801/pdf/westjmed00144-0116.pdf
- Mickiewicz, Ruth, Handbook of Soviet Social Science Dam New York: Free Press, 1973.
- Look up Semashko System

Most doctors per capita in the world Source: https://www.marxists.org/archive/newsholme/1933/red-medicine/index.htm
The Soviet Union had the highest physician-patient ratio in the world, my notes say 42 per 10,000 population, vs 24 in Denmark and Sweden, 19 in US. In this document: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0735675784900482 You can open it without paying with sci-hub.cc

Raised life expectancy by 65% Provided Healthcare was a right. Free healthcare for all and about twice as many doctors as the USA;

- Article 41: Citizens of the USSR have the right to rest and leisure. This right is ensured by the establishment of a working week not exceeding 41 hours, for workers and other employees, a shorter working day in a number of trades and industries, and shorter hours for night work; by the provision of paid annual holidays, weekly days of rest, extension of the network of cultural, educational, and health-building institutions, and the development on a mass scale of sport, physical culture, and camping and tourism; by the provision of neighborhood recreational facilities, and of other opportunities for rational use of free time. The length of collective farmers' working and leisure time is established by their collective farms.
- Article 42: Citizens of the USSR have the right to health protection. This right is ensured by free, qualified medical care provided by state health institutions; by extension of the network of therapeutic and health-building institutions; by the development and improvement of safety and hygiene in industry; by carrying out broad prophylactic measures; by measures to improve the environment; by special care for the health of the rising generation, including prohibition of child labour, excluding the work done by children as part of the school curriculum; and by developing research to prevent and reduce the incidence of disease and ensure citizens a long and active life.
(Soviet Constitution of 1977, Part II. The State And The Individual; Chapter 7: The Basic Rights, Freedoms, And Duties Of Citizens Of The USSR)

"Over much of this century the nation in the vanguard of the revolution in health was the Soviet Union. In 1897 Imperial Russia offered its people a life expectancy of perhaps thirty years. In European Russia, from what we can make out, infant mortality (that is, death in the first year) claimed about one child in four, and in Russia’s Asian hinterlands the toll was probably closer to one in three. Yet by the late 1950's the average Soviet citizen could expect to live 68.7 years: longer than his American counterpart, who had begun the century with a seventeen-year lead. By 1960 the Soviet infant mortality rate, higher than any in Europe as late as the Twenties, was lower than that of Italy, Austria, or East Germany, and seemed sure to undercut such nations as Belgium and West Germany any year." - Nicholas Ebserstadt (a conservative think-tank adviser)


The links in the first pdf are inactive, can anyone find them again?


из интервью 2006 года:


"Происходящее на Украине, ещё от фальшиво-построенной формулировки для референдума 1991-го года (я уже об этом писал и говорил), составляет мою постоянную горечь и боль. Фанатическое подавление и преследование русского языка (который в прошлых опросах был признан своим основным более чем 60% населения Украины) является просто зверской мерой, да и направленной против культурной перспективы самой Украины. Огромные просторы, никогда не относившиеся к исторической Украине, как Новороссия, Крым и весь Юго-Восточный край, насильственно втиснуты в состав нынешнего украинского государства и в его политику жадно желаемого вступления в НАТО. За всё время Ельцина ни одна его встреча с украинскими президентами не обошлась без капитуляций и уступок с его стороны. Изживание Черноморского флота из Севастополя (никогда и при Хрущёве не уступленного УССР) является низменным злостным надругательством над всей русской историей XIX и ХХ веков.

При всех этих условиях Россия ни в какой форме не смеет равнодушно предать многомиллионное русское население на Украине, отречься от нашего единства с ним."




BTW are the mods even alive on the wiki? I've made a few edits a while ago and they get sent to moderation and go nowhere.


I'm an admin. It could be a fluke from denying all, but I see some IP edits in the modlong (which I have accepted) so it is likely just all the mods sleeping.


On the contrary, it seems rather that we should fill in any information we happen to be aware of. We have a problem of not enough people editing the wiki, much before anything. This is also likely the problem with your wiki, which was likely small. If people see a page with not enough info, they'll add on to it as they see fit.


bay of pigs article

bay of pigs 2 Boogaloo venezuala fishermen


Definitely this

Also is it just me or are we continually drifting to the bottom of the board due to inactivity… This thread should be pinned or moved to /edu/ because it's 100% necessary and informative and is being underused because of so many garbage OPs being posted.


Yea, there is a decline in quality on this particular site. Back on 8ch we had a dedicated reading thread that was stickied — mods knew their priorities back then, but hardly such a thing now. This wiki is basically a collection of answers to questions that people keep asking over and over again; I figure that if we pin this thread then there will be a lot less new threads about simple topics, on top of raising the bar for post quality by emphasizing importance on this wiki.


I already do Wikiproject:Anarchism stuff on wikipedia. Can i add anarchist stuff that isn't leftism on here, anons?


What exactly does that mean? But go ahead lol


We need more file types that can be uploaded. WebMs, SVGs, PDFs, etc.


It's so annoying to see all the artifacts on every photo


>Pg-27 even when the garbage is being rerouted to /b/
FFS bump


It's not just that /leftypol/ is the wrong board for this thread, but the wrong website. Shitpost threads max out to 500 posts within a few hours while this thread has to keep getting resuscitated. Wrong audience here.




We hear you. Your voices are seen. Thread has been moved.




Resources on Ecomarxism/Capitalism ecological impact - Last subchapter of black shirts and reds (parenti)
(for ecomarxism/ecocapitalism article)


Have you seen this?
MLs created their own "ProleWiki"


Probably because we're so inactive.


man we trying


9/10 it's a glowfag operation masquerading under a LARP of "le epic radical socialists, defending reel soshulism!"


File: 1608528398613.jpg ( 218.08 KB , 1437x960 , bourg ww-2.jpg )

So I've been slowly adding some parts from (my) nationstates dispatch to the wiki, however since I'm having trouble coding the sources properly I'd like someone to also help out in posting the data and sources if possible.

Also 2 other sources to consider for the article including some content about the gratefulness of Soviet people and the myths about "downplaying"

Also, I request someone correct the part about Zhukov saying "decisive factor" That is a image-quote spread by wehraboos and /pol/. The full and actual words he stated are as follows.

"The Soviet people give their due to the people of the United States and Britain, to their soldiers, sailors, officers and military leaders who did everything in their power to bring closer the victory over Nazi Germany. We sincerely honour the memory of the killed British and American seamen who despite the dangerous situation at sea, despite the fact that they faced death every mile of the way, delivered to us the cargoes under the Lend-Lease agreement. We highly appreciate the valiance of the participants in the Resistance movement in many European countries." (…) "We also touched upon the deliveries under the Lend-Lease programme. Everything seemed clear in that respect then. Nevertheless, for years after the war bourgeois historiography has asserted that it was the Allied deliveries of armaments, materials and foodstuffs that had played a decisive role for our victory over the enemy. True, the Soviet Union did receive supplies the economy needed so badly: machinery, equipment, materials, fuel and foodstuffs. For example, over 400,000 vehicles, a great number of locomotives and communication facilities were brought from the United States and Britain. But could all that have had a decisive influence on the course of the war? I have already mentioned that the Soviet industry developed on such a scale during the war that it provided the front and rear with everything needed. I see no sense in going into all that once more. As for the armaments, what I would like to say is that we received under Lend-Lease from the United States and Britain about 18,000 aircraft and over 11,000 tanks. That comprised a mere 4 per cent of the total amount of armaments that the Soviet people produced to equip its army during the war. Consequently, there is no ground for talk about the decisive role of the deliveries under Lend-Lease. As for the tanks and aircraft supplied to us by the British and US governments, they, to be frank, did not display high fighting qualities; especially tanks which, running on petrol, would burn like torches" - 2014 edition of his memoirs ("Marshal of Victory: The Autobiography of General Georgy Zhukov")
link: http://booksdescr.org/item/index.php?md5=B2EEF3B4C47AF4D8AFE26F4F6F75E34B

Also working on the utterly devoid WW-2 page if I can, expanding into myths about the USSR also taken from there. Also Created a Molotov Ribbentrop Pact which is very much necessary as the subject is lengthy as hell. However I also believe that the Wikipedia page is far too bloated. For example the section on the Background reaches all the way back to WW-1 and The German-Soviet interactions of the Weimar Republic and other information while lacking key information. The Munich Treaty is also touched upon in bloated fashion and portrays the Soviets as overtly aggressive. I suggest taking the base information of wikipedia's page and rewording it, cleaning out unnecessary fluff and inaccurate russophobia and anticommunism and providing context from the Soviet view of things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#Background

Also Grover Furr's prodigious work on Poland contains detailed primary sources on the subject that I suggest we make use of.

Good luck comrades, help make this project work!




File: 1608528400364.jpg ( 221.06 KB , 1200x861 , Beat Drought.jpg )

Recently finished the article on The Great Plan For the Transformation of Nature and while it's pending admin review I just wanted to post some sources worth looking over for anyone who'd like to add more.

An article going over the opinions and historical assertions of Russians and Historians modern and past, on the plan
- http://novsoc.ru/stalinskiy-plan-preobrazovaniya-prirodyi-v-kontekste-istorii-russkoy-myisli/

An article written by an anti-communist Ukrainian ecological group. Many assertions are unfounded anti-communist drivel however a few citations are legitimate and should be looked into.
- http://www.ecoethics.ru/old/b61/52.html

An article with some basic information and high quality images that I don't know how to upload. The Stalin poster should be the top image and several other photos ought to also be included throughout the new article.
- https://ardexpert.ru/article/14074

Cyberlenin article written on the plan

A 1952 academic review of the plan
- http://istmat.info/files/uploads/52263/kovda_v._a._velikiy_plan_preobrazovaniya_prirody_1952.pdf

Another article: http://archive.is/56nXK

Dispelling myths: http://www.domarchive.ru/chronica/8787


File: 1608528400714.jpg ( 65.54 KB , 850x400 , castro failure of socialis….jpg )

>Cuban Republic article doesn't mention Castro or the Revolution except in passing
>Castro doesn't have his own article
>Che Guevara isn't even mentioned
>Bay of Pigs is forgotten


Thanks, good source to sue for later






that moment when the ww1 article is 26 words long




File: 1620949422090.png ( 554.03 KB , 600x1079 , Based Department.png )

Mighty fine posts you got there, anon.




>By the beginning of 1918 German armies started to surrender, as the tide of war was going swiftly against them. The German proletariat, suffering from both food and fuel shortages, threatened a socialist revolution at home. German leaders feared that potential revolution and eventually asked the allies for peace. The armistice went into effect at 11 AM on 11 November, 1918

I needd to know more

>Many Germans felt as if they were cheated out of victory by the German military leaders, as they surrendered. A result of the war was also the liberal February Revolution and Bolshevik October Revolution of 1917 which started the Russian Civil War that would lead to the creation of the USSR

I don't understand how what happened in germany had a result in russia


Until 1917, the Austro-Hungarian forces were being pushed back by Russia's army despite the latter being underfunded, under-armed and with outdated equipment (literally no gasmasks or aircraft of their own making, and a British lord reported 1 rifle per 3 people (yes the "Soviet myth" about 3 men to a single rifle actually originated from WW1 Russia).

The Germans had to send forces to stop and push back Russia before it could crush the AustroHungarians, during which time the February Revolution occurred, and later the October Revolution, in which, to quickly end the war and focus on internal affairs, Lenin made territorial concessions to Germany (which would allow Poland to reform) and focused on the Civil War/Revolution while the Western Empires were busy killing each other.

The Versailles treaty was made on the terms of Britain and France, even though Germany's military position was such that it could have and should have ended the war on fair terms since they hadn't started the war at all.

This is why we need people making contributions!


I don't think it's a LARP, it seems rather legit, and somewhat better organized with multiple languages and well organized pages on things like Cuba. We should probably at least take portions of the wiki and use it to improve leftypedia


I just want to ask you guys:

Is Leftypedia good for newbie leftists?


It's still being made but yes, given that it's a community project most articles that have a semblance of completion are well written and accurate. A Prime example would be The Great Plan for the Transformation of Nature seen in >>4537


While there are heaps of stubs, the ones which are more completed are pretty good and readable as the fellow before me said


good idea
i checked the prole wiki and they say that LP stuff is a good thing to use to improve Prole Wiki stuff - nurture eachother


Does anyone want a Canada article?


Yes, please do make one


sure ill work on it. hopefully my newspaper hoarding hobby will help out


Great! The more people participating in the wiki is good.



Unique IPs: 12

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