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 No.8164

Hello /edu!!
I am struggling to understand some of the basics of capitalist poliical economy, and i was hoping someone here could help we with my learning. Specifically the equation for the Rate of Surplus-Value escapes my grasp :(. Pic related, from Political Economy, A Textbook issued by the Institute of Economics of the Academy of sciences of the USSR, page 108.

So I understand surplus-value (s) to be the value of labour-power that the worker isn't compensated for, and variable capital (v) to be the portion of capital spend on supplying the worker with wages. In the example, $6 is the value of the worker's surplus-value, while $6 is also the variable capital spent on supplying the worker with wages.
I am not sure how they come to the conclusion that half of the worker's labour is surplus, and half is nessessary. If the capitalist spends $6 on wages, and extracts $6 of surplus-value, wouldnt the worker be fully compensated in this case? The capitalist wouldnt recieve any profit. I think im missing something obvious here, but ive been mulling over it for days now. Please assist!
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 No.8165

>So I understand surplus-value (s) to be the value of labour-power that the worker isn't compensated for, and variable capital (v) to be the portion of capital spend on supplying the worker with wages.
This is basically correct, but the intuition is that labor needs food, shelter, etc to live, have children and reproduce society. Everything not spent on that is surplus value. That surplus value is extracted from the workers.

>If the capitalist spends $6 on wages, and extracts $6 of surplus-value, wouldnt the worker be fully compensated in this case?

Fully compensated would mean that the workers receive 100% of the value they create. If there is any extraction at all by the capitalist then it's not full compensation is it?

>I am not sure how they come to the conclusion that half of the worker's labour is surplus

I think they just simplify it to mean whatever is paid in wages vs whatever is kept as profit.
>The capitalist wouldn't receive any profit.
Aren't they receiving 6$ in profit?
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 No.8175

Surplus value isn't an actual thing you can divide out and measure to say this much surplus was made. The concept at its core is that labor was inherently tied to exploitation, and the goal of the manager or overseer was to do more by whatever arbitrary metric they set at any given time; that is, there would be an effectively bottomless well of exploitation in principle that could be attained by whipping more. There would be no real or necessary condition limiting the manager. In other words, "torture is God". Whatever "more" is obtained by torture is credited to torture.

This mentality appeals most of all to managers rather than capitalists. The capitalist only sees that he has such and such stock, and for him labor is incidental to any of his operations. The capitalist only evaluates the officers under his command. The common workers were always beasts of burden and the assumption would always be slavery in some form. Marxism suggested "slavery is eternal", because Marx was writing in defense of the parties interested in slavery if you understand what he was and what he was for.

What was the point of surplus value then? It's really a tautology if you reconstructed Marx's thinking after a thorough systems analysis. Again, the capitalist's concern isn't the management of humans but the management of stock and of machinery directly. Human labor was a type of machine but it was a type of machine that was in of itself irrelevant to the capitalist. The capitalist could easily see a society where there were only officers, and that was the default assumption. The workers were the living dead right away in Adam Smith's system and no one really questioned that or thought it would be different, let alone that such a condition would be justified. Classical political economy would acknowledge that this is a complete ripoff for the workers and starkly contrasted the laborer from the real society as they saw it. Everything of the worker's existence was a gratuity given to the capitalist, and any claim the worker had outside of that was explicitly illegal and would be quashed without remorse. Capitalism never once could be made into something other than that, and if the worker did have standing this situation Adam Smith describes is no longer operative. It would have violated the injunction to prevent men of the same trade meeting together or "conspiracies against the public", which unions most certainly were.

What surplus value explains is what a manager, an opportunist, and would-be technocrat would see if they valued specifically the management of humans and asked how they could have something essential - slavery. Otherwise, any technocrat, socialist or otherwise, sees the workers no differently than the capitalist sees them. The workers for their part never cared for the idea that their contracts were inherently valuable or moral in any way. They were forced to sign those contracts with a knife at their throat and that fact in of itself was worse than any abstract notions of value or civic worth.
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 No.8176

>>8175
>Surplus value isn't an actual thing you can divide out and measure to say this much surplus was made.
Yeah, it is. Surplus value is the value of labor-power minus variable capital. Get out of here, Eugene.
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 No.8177

>>8176
Do you know what "variable capital" means? The entire point isn't that the worker is some unknown, but that the worker's condition was relevant… to management. Marx is answering a number of questions about the capitalist condition that are highly specific, rather than inventing surplus value as a magical explanation of where profit comes from. Profit immediately comes from stock.

What Marx is doing in this description is answering the Machine Question; that is, why do machines create so much economic ruin when the entire point of this enterprise is to build more capital, i.e. more machines because capital is a proxy for technology generally. Marx didn't invent this technocratic view. It was implicit in everything Adam Smith is writing and something Adam Smith is conscious of, that Ricardo explicitly comments on. Marx gave a compelling answer to that question by his study of abstract labor, and if you know anything about Marxism, Marx's invention of abstract labor is what the entire critique hinges on.
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 No.8179

>>8177
>Do you know what "variable capital" means?
Yep, read the book and everything.

<The method of calculating the rate of surplus-value is therefore, shortly, as follows. We take the

total value of the product and put the constant capital which merely re-appears in it, equal to zero. What remains, is the only value that has, in the process of producing the commodity, been actually created. If the amount of surplus-value be given, we have only to deduct it from this remainder, to find the variable capital. And vice versâ, if the latter be given, and we require to find the surplus-value. If both be given, we have only to perform the concluding operation, viz., to calculate s/v, the ratio of the surplus-value to the variable capital.

excerpted from Volume 1, Part 3, Chapter 9. Read the damn book.
>Marx is answering a number of questions about the capitalist condition that are highly specific, rather than inventing surplus value as a magical explanation of where profit comes from.
He didn't invent surplus value at all.
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 No.8180

>>8179
He literally created the concept of surplus value from abstract labor. Nothing in classical political economy regarded the particular contract with the worker as meaningful, as if you could make the contracts into something other than what they were: slavery. No one was ever actually convinced the workers' contracts were something other than slavery, most of all the workers themselves who have always been treated as a slave population. If you think workers are equal to managers you are deluding yourself and fail to comprehend the fundamental nature of this society. Everything in the society emphasizes that workers are alien from "real work", i.e. management. Today that is locked in institutionally and effectively made into a caste. Your task as an enabling idiot is to uphold eugenic caste because you're a fag and an asshole. Every institution in the 20th century existed to defend the eugenic creed at all costs. Eugenics is why the world wars happened you fucking Satanic.
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 No.8181

Very obviously you are incapable of comprehending the things you read. Your Tavistock branded education primed you to be a credulous idiot who believes anything put in front of him. Everyone who studies the most basic Marxist take on political economy tells you, and Marx himself wrote, that his invention that made Capital possible was the concept of abstract labor. Before Marx no one really thought of labor in the abstract, or as the manager saw it, because the worker was not the proper subject of capitalism and never would be. The capitalist was primarily concerned with stock, that is to say the machinery itself. The workers' only part in this is that at some point the propensity to do anything with money came from the command of labor, i.e. the various specializations of labor that would be valued.

This is what you Marxoids do and it's inherent to Marx himself, where the smallest distinction is turned into a grand theory. Marx's first contribution to "the struggle" was attacking the lowest class for his narrow, pigheaded program.
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 No.8182

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>>8181
>Surplus value isn't an actual thing you can divide out and measure to say this much surplus was made.
<The method of calculating the rate of surplus-value is therefore, shortly, as follows. We take the
total value of the product and put the constant capital which merely re-appears in it, equal to zero. What remains, is the only value that has, in the process of producing the commodity, been actually created. If the amount of surplus-value be given, we have only to deduct it from this remainder, to find the variable capital. And vice versâ, if the latter be given, and we require to find the surplus-value. If both be given, we have only to perform the concluding operation, viz., to calculate s/v, the ratio of the surplus-value to the variable capital.
t. Karl Marx in Capital
>Your Tavistock branded education primed you to be a credulous idiot who believes anything put in front of him.
Sure thing, schizo.
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 No.8183

>>8182
Why do you think a quote is automatic proof? That proves everything I am saying; that you are trained to believe anything put in front of you and not think about anything that is written.

By the way, the capitalist has no inherent reason to keep labor alive, and the first thing that happened in capitalism was a severe dieoff. Why has this been substituted with a essentially Satanic claim that the capitalist has this bizarre need of labor to suck out its soul? The capitalist doesn't care about any of that. Managers and Satanists do.
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 No.8184

Anyway to go back to the OP to better answer his question:

Surplus value by its nature is never "compensated for". It cannot be done, and part of the insidious slop version of "New Marxism" promoted by leftypol is the idea that surplus value is a substance you could "earn". It's not earned by anyone, not even the manager or the capitalist. Surplus value is essentially the waste inherent in all of the things that exploit the worker, who wouldn't have agreed to this contract. As a thing the worker could possess, the worker doesn't want it. If the worker worked for himself, which is what he did in home manufacture, he receives no surplus in a material sense and no necessary satisfaction. Literally the only thing the worker gains from working for himself is that he is not under a contract where he has a knife at his throat.

Surplus value is observed not by the worker or the capitalist, but by the interested parties beteen them; which is to say managers, social engineers, and importantly a big thing called "the State" that is the only reason there are laws establishing a free market condition. If not for liberal laws permitting it, there is no natural reason for markets to be honored or regarded, and the state can step in and extract or outright confiscate whatever it likes and interdict the process. Nothing obligates the participants in the market to believe that the market has any natural laws whatsoever. You won't find people who hate capitalism more than capitalists themselves, because those capitalists are doomed to lose to a monopolist. In the 19th century the monopoly was the East India Company. In the 20th century, the Trusts dominate and build a highly invasive state. In the present time, the monopoly is Eugenics and the interested parties who joined a cult that steadily grew during the 20th century and is now manifested in the world for the first time. There is no historical precedent for what you live under now and the exhortation, an essentially Satanic exhorttation, is that you are not permitted to acknowledge that there is a condition. You are only permitted a parodic, bastardized version of the past. That is the Germanic idea of the state, a pervese and essentially Satanic idea that created entirely predictable ruin. The same idea is why you are quick to believe in the essential act of interdiction and transgression that is at the heart of the German idea. The German philosophy and thus Marxism is a paean to slavery itself.
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 No.8188

To make this easier to understand and refute the stupid version you're going to get from a lot of people, it helps to look at it purely from the manager's point of view. The manager has nothing to do with the contract between worker and capitalist, and in practical reality the manager does not sign any contract of the same sort whatsoever. False egalitarianism is a calling card of the charlatan. Managers are never, ever treated like workers; nor are they treated like corporate officers who are by their nature detached from workers altogether and work directly with stock.

Remember that labor is judged here in the abstract. The labor of the manager is not morally equal to the labor of corporate officers, which is not equal to that of workers under bondage. These things will never be equal in the important matter of the contract. For the corporate officer, their loyalty to the boss has more to do with the obligations of vassal to a lord. Whatever a contract stipulates, the corporate officer is never a purely abstract agent and would not be tolerated as such. The chief interest of the capitalist when hiring officers, much like the interest of a lord hiring a general or lieutenant, is loyalty. A corporate officer swears an oath of fealty or what effectively amounts to such when transferred to a new lord. That has always been the essential nature of the corporate officer. The corporate officer is not given over to any notion of ideology that suggests this is "good" or "natural" or a privilege worth crying over. The corporate officer understands the relationship because he is part of a chain of command necessarily to be an officer. That's what a large firm does. The distinction of corporate officers from the noble is that the corporate officer is adopted without any particular pedigree or historical reason why he "ought" to be there. You could hire a corporate officer from the dregs of society if you really wanted, so long as the behaved in line with the corporate world's value system and the bottom line of the firm. When you get down to it, this was the essential function of the warrior nobility in the past. They didn't believe they possessed magic that allowed them to rule with seriousness, though their degeneracy requires them to advance publicly this idea and never let go. If the noble couldn't fight in battle, if he was useless and proven so, his title was forsaken. There is no brotherhood among officers of any type. You have to understand this about any imperial system to understand the nature of these contracts, and from the outset Adam Smith's thinking is an imperial idea because he's looking at the East India Company's holdings most of all and asking what to do with it.

The arrangement of the manager is thoroughly technocratic. Whatever contract he signs with the capitalist is just words. The manager at a basic level is not obligated to the capitalist nor to capitalism as a system at all. Managers, those who would be of the technocratic sort, collude with each other. This is where human resources comes from. This habit is something managers understood from their long history of managing slaves, and the petty-manageral thought derives entirely from the institution of slavery which is above any notion of "the market" or any particular economic condition. Managers by their profession would have the same attitude in a socialist or feudal society, for their loyalty is to the essential act of slavery, and their profession exists for that essential act rather than for any ulterior motive.
To capital proper, the managerial task is a wholly unnecessary waste. The capitalist cares primarily about his officers doing what they are there to do. The capitalist's relationship to his officers is not one of alienation but of a simple hierarchy. There is not and never has been any ambiguity about these people and what they are like. The manager's task is dominated by obfuscation precisely because in an ideal situation, the manager would be removed. There would be the capitalist's plan for the firm and there would be the workers who implement that plan. If the workers manage the sundry affairs of daily labor themselves this doesn't change anything fundamentally, nor would it change anything if the workers were treated well and held some entitlement apart from capital. The officers care primarily about being officers, and so if these officers were part of a communist organ they would maintain the world view of officers and never once see themselves as workers or make false equivocation. The manager too does not believe in or need false equivocation but for different reasons. The manager's function is wholly rooted in his alienation from all things but management. He is in other words the "abstract capitalist", except the manager really has no reason to believe capital or money is worth anything. The manager envisions his scheme continuing through a regime of forced ignorance about technology and the truth, because if there were no ambiguity in any operation, there would be no argument the manager has except one expedient; torture for torture's sake, the outcome of which we need not doubt because we have seen its results every day. The manager as a rule does nothing productive whatsoever, because productivity is anathema to his function. The officer often works in the area he is commanded to work.

What you see in Marx is an obfuscation where the officers and any center of authority is made "unknowable" and petty-managers are presented as a wholly alien force injected into the society of everyone else. And so, it is the managers who see surplus, variable "capital" (human capital i.e slaves but Marx doesn't call it that), and ask how much more can be extracted from sweat. The capitalist officer doesn't believe that he has a genuine moral argument for the menial worker and never once even suggested that was needed. The capitalist claim is that the world consists only of officers or otherwise useless persons, and the managers beneath the officers are not just useless persons but specifically troublesome worthless persons. If the capitalist did acknowledge the worker's existence, and this is not some moral outrage and capitalists and workers have always understood each other at a basic level, the capitalist simply recapitulates his thinking of what society will be and what he is there to do, and that common workers have no place in his society whatsoever. If the worker doesn't like it, he can't do a whole lot about it. Kill the capitalist? Maybe. Usually the action of the worker was to steal from the capitalist because that was one of the only freedoms he had, and the capitalist sensed that he should probably let the mafia have an acceptable level of theft because that has been the arrangement of hitherto known human society. It was the manager who obsessed over loss prevention less because it was his wealth and more because it was a pretext to invade the lives of workers, usually to accuse them of some fictitious theft because the managers always, always steal from their bosses and insist on an imperious right to do so.

What the common worker sees in all of this is yet more bullshit to tell him what he can do in a world htat was never his, and now he is told he has to conform to wholly alien social codes of petty-managers and even if he did conform to this code the managers are just going to torture him more. Compliance was never an option. What the worker can do is hold what little he had left and cobble together an existence wholly outside of the political and the system of firms, and to some extent this was recognized as a necessity. Officers are primarily tasked with ruling and fighting rather than daily labor and maintenance, and operations research tells the officer not to allocate operations equally and to specialize as much as possible, absent a greater necessity for someone to be a generalist. There is no reason for arbitrary specializations where someone is convinced an essential act like being a cahsier is some alien and unknowable labor task and the specialization at any given day of work is primarily about the work task rather than the people doing it, but officers are always officers and the hierarchy is established on that basis rather than on a petty basis. The manager revels in creating every arbitrary distinction because as a manager he has no more than the lowest worker. You will even see in the 21st century that managers are hired off the street to do some dirty business and just as quickly released, because the program today is openly and proudly democidal and that has become the chief value.

So what was the reason for "surplus value" if it's just a managerial illusion? It is a proxy for the essential act of exploitation and alienation, which has always been a feature of a slave relation. The slave has no moral obligation to masters or the system whatsoever, and the common worker was in every sense a slave; legally, morally, socially. What distinguished the worker from others was that he was not made chattel as the Negro was, nor was he of the lowest class. The distinction between worker and lowest class is stark and the lowest class is the historical great enemy of labor, who has always been the first to attack when things go wrong. Members of the lowest class see no value in any of this and their lives are wholly removed from the human race. Humanism has always been our enemy, and so the managerial program usually means maximizing our torure and using us as the eternal excuse to justify some new outrage.

In effect, Marx's theory seeks to ask how the worker can be made either the lowest class or a borugeois manager or officer. The officers would be the communist part, the managers their useful lackies who maximize the efficiency of this new slave system, and Marx is a partisan of the slave power for obvious reasons.
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 No.8189

To make the surplus value more comprehensible, the central argument is that the worker is a type of machine and so his behavior can be predicted and cajoled, and that this particular machine of human labor is the manager's interest. The manager can't directly do anything with the technology because that is held by the officers and utilized by common labor that actually does things.
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 No.8190

What happens for the manager is that they see opportunity in the petty distinctions of men, and that is the "profit" they want to lionize and valorize. Any reasonable person can see this ahead of time, but the German philosophy was designed specifically to advance slavery, forced ignorance, and the glorification of the essential act. If you see that system for what it is, you dismiss it and you see what remains.

The problem with this is that the realistic value of human labor is something that can be gauged after all of the torture and cajoling. A human can only do so much before it becomes physically impossible for the human to do more without ceasing to be human, at which point the manager oversees a very different type of operation. In theory the worker can be replaced with a machine or some other entity and the same drama would play out between manager and capitalist. The worker saw this entire enterprise as ruinous. His motivation to work at all was always what little of the world he could keep. Whether the firm was profitable or failed did not give the worker any more or less prosperity. In all likelihood the common worker's livelihood was supplemented by charity or his associations such as they were. For the lowest class, any material prosperity could be arbitrarily confiscated, a ritual I have experienced multiple times to remind me "this never changes" as something I obviously "earned" was taken away from me with a sadistic grin. There is nothing that can be done about this. The same is not true of workers on a regular basis. For the lowest class, arbitrary confiscation is a public and glorified matter that has always been upheld not just as the Law but an Absolute law.
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 No.8191

The idea of surplus value imagines there is an "inifinite and unknowable" wellspring of potential, when the reality has always been understood that any human is limited and nothing you do to push it is going to make it something other than what it is; nor does any of that pushing constitute a moral force in of itself. The Germanic does not comprehend genuine moral thought, and frankly does not possess proper language as English civlization understood it.

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