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I think D&D has degraded over the years, but I wanna hear your thoughts.


D&D is overrated, play other RPGs.


D&D itself is fine i think i just don't like the kind of people that play it, i generally have more fun with FATE or GURPs (though both cannot replace what DND is, they're just different systems that have better communities around them and they both do their jobs very well, especially FATE which fosters great roleplay)


Well, I think 5e is over-rated, it's unfufilling for me and a fail to see its appeal, so I've tried getting into older shit, like 1e or even OD&D, currently I've found Seven Voyages of Zylarthen and OD&D-like game, seems cool, if only there was a group I could run it for


what happened to the D&D community?


too much focus on the "game" aspect rather than the "roleplaying" aspect so a lot of people just kind of powergame and don't really get immersed or attached to the setting


oh, "that", yeah, it fucking sucks, everyone's over attached to their stale fucking characters and relies too much on rules to determine shit, and all the classes are the same-ish too, it's a weird game, pity the first edition I got to play was fifth. I DM'd for a school group, and this guy managed to make an OP barb that would obliterate 2-3 bad guys while everyone else was trying to get even one, the module was shit too, like, there was supposed to be a story, but it was so uninvolved from the players, it just, fuck, at least we got to the good part.


I played dnd5e for a while with HS frens over roll20 and discord and honestly never got the appeal of the game.
The gameplay mechanics aspect itself is kinda lackluster, the actual roleplaying with pals wasn't really there for us either.
The plots you're given really aren't exactly legendarily immersive and well-written, and everyone played a character that was either 'EPICLUL I'm such a MEMEr so RANDOM I'm doING WACKY things' or psychos, and no one really cared about actually playing the character, just doing the things in the wacky/psycho way, though the characters is more our fault thing.
I suppose I disliked the game in a group playing it 'the wrong way,' but actually thinking about playing 'the right way' doesn't even really appeal to me,
it seems a bit (literally) LARPy, which is something I find personally offputting but ain't trying to deride anyone else for doing.

I just like muh Morrowind.


honestly, 5e is a game that skimmed past everything but combat, and couldn't deliver good combat because that shit feels like a bunch of ambulatory sponges tapping each other with sticks until someone gets bored and passes out, everyone is fucking OP and the best time I had in 5e was playing level 1-3 characters before combat becomes so easy and dragged out you basically tune out from the game. also the fact the game needs to balance shit really makes my blood boil, balance is a fancy word for you guys are going to win this fight, so there aren't even stakes, fuck I hate 5e


I think it's the opposite. Too much "roleplaying" and not a lot of actual game mechanics. Combat is boring as fuck in any edition that wasn't 3e and even then if you weren't some sort of magic user, combat was just a string of dice rolls that dealt damage to the enemy.
5e stripped away the powers and abilities of magic users and made them more bland and thus I see no reason to play 5e.
5e also has barely any rules whenever it comes to skills. If you want to play a DnD game, play Frank and K Tome games.


yeah, but before 3e, D&D wasn't mainly a combat game, you were supposed to explore a dungeon, get loot, get out, fighting was to be avoided by either negotiation or circumvention and every fight a very good chance of putting a stop to the adventure right then and there. You are right though, everyone goes into D&D hoping for one of those critical role/TAZ adventures with character moments, but it usually doesn't pan out because that takes more effort and most people just don't do it, not to mention rail-roady stories kinda ruin the point


I'm honestly not sure about that. Like the two main games that represented the older DnDs was dungeon crawlers and isometric RPGs centered around combat.
DnD was always centered around combat ever since it came out from army wargames.


well, if you've read the game books and people's experiences, the game is actually meant for exploration


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Anyone play Star Wars RPG?


not me, is it good?


D&D was never good.


what sucked about in the old days, I think it was the inconsistent rules and bad organization, but retroclones can fix that


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I've GM'd Edge of the Empire through Roll 20, the dies were probably the most confusing aspect about the whole thing both for the party and myself.


There's about as much "game" in D&D as Mouse Trap or Candy Land. There's no skill to hone, no meaningful decisions to make due to its free form, you just roll the dice and laugh at the results.


eh, prolly in the newer versions, in the older versions I "HEAR" they don't skip over the investigation checks, and the fact the fighting acts as a fail state helps with problem solving, but you're probably right


by skip over investigation checks, I mean you have to activly look for shit in game, there is no "investigation" stat


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Both "fate points" as a feature and rules-lite "narrative/storytelling" design fill me with kneejerk revulsion, due to their tendency toward "magical tea party"/"mother may I" play in lieu of any actual mechanics. Also because of their connection to Forgefaggotry.

>the two main games that represented the older DnDs was dungeon crawlers and isometric RPGs centered around combat
That's because those are things machines are good at doing, as they're the most mechanically well defined in D&D. Whereas dialog, for instance, is practically impossible (your choice of clunky chatbot parser, or rigid multiple-choice), and improvisation can only be approximated through extensive CYOA-style prescripting. The only real option for a non-combat/dungeoneering cRPG would be something multiplayer with a human DM, like NWN.

Really, I'm astonished an AAA vidya devs haven't tried their hand at making VTTs way more often.


3e DND was the only game that required you to actually have a somewhat optimized build in order to tackle the late game. All the other DnD editions is just magical tea parties with some random combat.


hey, so what is the matter with narrativist games, I know they can be pretentious (see apocalypse world) but what honestly sucks about 'em


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It's not so much that they're bad, but that they aren't good.

The main thing you get out of buying and using an RPG somebody wrote, aside from incidental setting "fluff", is rules, especially for conflict resolution and world generation. But rules in storygames invariably boil down to "make shit up", just like little girls holding a pretend magical tea party, thus the epithet "MTP".

Now, there's nothing wrong with using MTP sometimes, there's even a discreet reminder about it in D&D with "rule 0". The problem is, every child already knows MTP, so anything written inside a published tabletop RPG must be different from and superior to MTP for at least some tasks, otherwise it's just a book full of "fluff" instead of a functional RPG.

Aside from weak or outright nonfunctional rules, however, actual rules and guidelines typical of storygames are also corrosive. For instance, fate points and narrative control disassociate players from their characters, and discourage detailed worldbuilding, in favor of vague worlds that leave room for limitlessly escalating bullshit:
>the wolves press you to the cliff's edge
&lti jump off
&ltso you fall to your doom?
>*burn a fate point* *POOF* *a branch appears*
>no, i grab a branch and climb back up after they leave


I see, hey, so Burning wheel is a storygame, but it's like a thousand pages of rules and shit, what say you?


think it really depends on who you're playing with and what kind of person the dm is


Any DMs willing to start an online /leftypol/ D&D campaign?


>all this discussion
&ltnobody even plays

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