/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Good post. Haz already says that "we live in socialism" because companies are owned by shareholders and anyone can buy stock in a company, making them the owner.

>>451642
I don't know who Haz is but i don't see anything wrong with Caleb Maupin

>>451651
>Haz already says that "we live in socialism"
Which is meant as a provocation at best, but will always bit him in the ass. This literally happened just recently when he was debating actual fascists who argued that "every fucking country is already socialist, pensions are socialist, labor rights are socialists, etc. etc. and this retard Haz only had to say "yeah."

It's beyond ridiculous, ffs.

>>451655
He's a literal booklet who makes up for his bookletism with conspiratorial thinking. Want me to elaborate?

>>451659
*bite him in the ass.

>>451659
I think when you look at what gets away with being passed off as socialist and organisations like the Socialist International, when you say you're a communist instead it makes sense.

>>451664
I get that specific point (and I ultimately agree with it), but the problem is is that Haz further renders our – OUR – fucking communist terms further meaningless for cheap youtube subs…

Holy fuck it all makes sense now

>>451651
Lmao did he really say this? I’ve literally had this given to me as a counter argument by a right winger at one point

Caleb is literally Lassalle. I have been reading about him and their positions are the same.

>>451700
we already know that you know that he said this, (self-proclaimed) schizo namefag Sage.

>>451701
>screenshot
Source, moron?

>>451703
Wiki
Start there and then read this https://www.marxists.org/espanol/m-e/cartas/m23-2-65.htm

Translate it in google because I think the english version has been copyright'd

>>451704
>Wiki
which, moron?

>>451705
WIKIPEDIA

>>451706
WHICH ARTICLE, MORON?!

>>451707
FERDINAND LASSALLE'S ARTICLE

>>451708
FAGGOT

>>451702
I knew he said we already lived under socialism, I didn’t know he thought that was why

>>451709
DOUBLEFAGGOT

>>451711
TRIPLEFAGGOT

>>451712
stop pretending & answer: >>451702

>>451713
N+1FAGGOT

So after watching some of this i'm confused.
Why does Haz go on a rant against universalism ?
Doesn't he know that Marxism is philosophically universalist ?

Caleb did pretty ok from what i gather.

>>451719
>Why does Haz go on a rant against universalism?
Because he's still a Heideggerian. The most hilarious aspect of this is that's it's basically anglo-shit without him realizing that it is such, since Heidie was a Germ Man, therefore he can't be an anglo, right?

And if someone doesn't get the joke: fascism literally has anglo roots, and even Hitler acknowledges this. Anglo particularism (etc.) literally translates to Heidy's Dasein…

>Doesn't he know that Marxism is philosophically universalist?
He doesn't.

For anyone interested: read Badiou.

>Caleb did pretty ok from what i gather.
He didn't. He's a mother fucking retard American cult leader/grifter and nothing more.


The two in OP did "great" in contrast to their burger retardedness, but not otherwise. They are literal fucking morons.

Then they will just work with Marxist Economists. It's really not a big deal. Nobody has to know everything. Mao certainly didn't.

Then they will just work with Marxist Economists. It's really not a big deal. Nobody has to know everything. Mao certainly didn't.

>>451721

It depends on what kind of universalism one is speaking about.

For example, Marx disagrees with the moral universality of human rights (especially insofar as the are based on the rights of the atomized ahistorical individual)

Doesn't Haz actually argue that the current state of affairs is "socialist" in a way because the anarchy of market capitalism is already subjected to de facto coordination by means of bourgeois institutions, such as the government's money printer, and the large banks, except that this socialism is run to maintain the interests of private capital, in an ironic sort of reversal? Thus the requirement to preserve capitalism from self destruction inadvertently digs the grave of said capitalism. At least that seems to be the general idea which he gets at.

>>451714
>>451710
Read the thread

>>451755
That’s what I got too. It seems to me that he believes we live in bourgeois socialism, since established companies like Goldman Sachs and Boeing can survive on bailouts without generating a profit. It makes some sense, but I’m not really convinced.

if you're already been persuaded by leftist rhetoric there is absolutely no reason to watch these folks, they're good to draw people in, but thats about it.

Caleb might be retarded in his approach but he's right in the fact that Americans will never lach into socialism with out appealing to unique values Americans hold.

>>451651
Based Haz. He's like the Trump of Communism. Original thinker who makes liberals spaz out. Finally someone is draining the swamp that is western leftism.

>>451642
>problem with Caleb is free speech

If "SWAC" happens, the problem will be it will just be authcap. Free speech is fine (there ought to be more of it), market socialism would be optimistic, but you'd need real advocacy for it - if Caleb advocates for it, that's funny, I was unaware, everyone seems to think he's a joke for completely different reasons. His signal wrt advocating market socialism must not be very strong.

What I see is disproportionate boosts for guys like Jackson Hinkle - and I cannot, for the fucking life of me, think of a single person who gives a fuck what Hinkle has to say or would give a fuck about him had he not gotten some push behind him. For all intents and purposes, this man seems to be received as a troll, everyone seems to be aware that he's a grifter except he's then invited to speak at the big stop-sending-Ukraine-weapons rally as though he had anything important to say. This guy does nothing but make others look bad by association - rather than a voice for a united workers' movement, he seems like an attempt at reserve cavalry for Trump, the GOP being measurably more powerful in present-day American politics than any socialist movement is.

To me, guys like Hinkle and Haz, far from representing mainstream American workers or the American left, seem like tailor-made imposters. They're useful in promoting an idea of the left which can be exploited by the right - a "socialism" of private industry, minority scapegoats, and a "collectivism" of national identity. Fill in the rest.

I do not take their sway over workers or the left seriously, but I hold their ascent in serious suspicion.

>>467769
Lmao just realized I'm replying to an OP from 2 years ago

Most soycialists haven't read Marx, which might be a good thing considering how often Marxoids misunderstand Marx

>>467771
God will you just fuck off.

>muh e celebs represent Marxism
Lmao you have such a surface level cynical George Carlin esque view on “materialism”. You ironically have just as much of a shallow worldview as these e celebs that you unironically operate on their platitudes and give them the time of day. Haz btw is a charlatán lumpen who literally comes from a bourgeoisie background. He knows absolutely nothing about being a prole. Caleb is just your generic populist Marxist with no real substance. Just someone who can recognize “that we need to do something”. The reality is that there is gonna be no movement worth shit that will come in America. The only way to push towards socialism is to usher in a new age of state capitalists and industrialists that would revitalize the proletarian class.

>>467792
>>muh e celebs represent Marxism
>Lmao you have such a surface level cynical George Carlin esque view on “materialism”. You ironically have just as much of a shallow worldview as these e celebs that you unironically operate on their platitudes and give them the time of day
true and accurate observation

>muh backgrounds
>muh defeatism
>the true path to socialism in america is um… more capitalism um… something something revitalization
lol, as expected from the american politics thread!

>>467781
nope
cope seethe dilate and have sex

>>467792
>cynical George Carlin esque view on “materialism”
Was Carlin really a cynic or was that just part of his bit. Maybe he just wanted to target cynically minded people and give them a leftist critique of society instead of a right wing one. Maybe he figured that he wasn't living in revolutionary times and that all he could do was ideological struggle, and that's why he didn't make appeals for changing anything.

>Caleb is just your generic populist Marxist with no real substance. Just someone who can recognize “that we need to do something”. The reality is that there is gonna be no movement worth shit that will come in America. The only way to push towards socialism is to usher in a new age of state capitalists and industrialists that would revitalize the proletarian class.
I don't think that Caleb Maupin would necessarily be opposed to the US doing state-capitalism as long as it was shifting away from imperial stuff and towards US internal development.

Revolution in The US seems unlikely at the moment. However if the US goes to war with China and gets defeated that might shift the loyalties of the US military the same way the loyalties of the Tzarist military was shifted after they were defeated against Japan in the battle of Tsushima. The Bolsheviks got the support of the Russian Navy because they felt that the Tzar had sacrificed them. Obviously I'm not suggesting that this exact scenario would repeat, but it's extremely likely that the current US ruling class will loose the loyalty of the US military if they direct them into a battle that causes a big defeat. The US military brass might refuse orders that lead to a big defeat in order to avoid a revolutionary situation, depending how aware they are. But a "military-nyet" still carries significant political changes in it's wake, even if they are a lot less drastic than what follows revolutions.

>>467794
You are insanely retarded and have no capacity for material analysis. We barely have a proletariat. Our mode of production resembles more of a rent based neo feudalism than a capitalism capable of transforming into socialism. Read Lenin faggot

>>467801
>was he just doing a bit
No, he was either doing a parody of pretentious gen x fags who whine about everything or he was that himself
>he was trying to teach people
Yeah the same way anti capitalist movies are so prevalent now despite have 0 material critique. It’s just self serving bs

>>467803
Even only everyone was a rrrrradical as you, we'd have full communism by now

But how could that be, since you're such a special snowflake

>>467805
>>467804
You are so much of a leftist faggot you probably think we just need a good communist party then suddenly say “I declare the country to be socialist” and it will be that.

>>467813
You're replying two different people. Personally, I think the notion of equality is a lazy secular-Christian cope for losers who resent winners.

I think Socialism with American Characteristics is a good idea, that said Caleb like most leftists, completely betrays that by falling into the Leftist trap of "US bad" and going around parading with Russian and DPRK flags. Even if you agree with those positions, it's incredibly bad optics and completely betrays the "focus on American issues that matter to the American working class in a language American workers understand".
Socialism with American Characteristics, will be based in American iconography and American revolutionary and radical history, rather than aping on European, Russian and Chinese thinkers. On how American Characteristics will play out in the real world. Again, as an outsider, I think any form of American Socialism will need to be far more decentralised than other M-L systems, have far more liberal/libertarian social values, put far more focus on personal rights and personal property (at least in the "short term").
America has an extremely strong frontier, libertarian culture, even American Radlibs I speak to irl would be considered radical lolbert individual fetishist rightoids by anyone in my country, and Socialism with American characteristics will have to work with that culture, at least for a couple decades as a new collectivist, civicist culture can be implemented.

>>467914
nah, socialism with any special snowflake characteristics is retarded - it goes against the universality of economic base

it's just nazoids coping with their nazoid exceptionalism - a phenomenon as old as nazoids themselves

NK with all its monarchistic peculiarities is still your run-of-the-mill bureaucratic socialist state, any "characteristics" are so insignificant that they can be safely ignored

China with all its one-party peculiarities is still your run-of-the-mill capitalist state, any "characteristics" are so insignificant that they can be safely ignored

Conclusion: weak ass coping nazoids still DOMINATED by an economic base

Nothing ever changes, nazoids are the same everywhere, nevermind their claims of being unique special snowflakes lol

>>467918
The materialist base is completely different country to country.
For example, just look at urban planning, high density, walkable European cities have led to a more civic minded, collectivist people, meanwhile the American suburbs are a breeding ground for "fuck you got mine" lolbert culture.
Any Socialist messaging and movement will need to adapt to the material and cultural reality of that region, at least for the first couple decades as the society is reorganised. Subruban American lolberts aren't going to become identical to say, European Social Democratic people the second Socialism takes place.

>>467919
>The materialist base is completely different country to country.
only if we're talking about small ass countries
but if we're talking about economic blocks or continents then differences level out

>>467914
Both the left and the right in America hates the revolution. They hate the radical core that lies in the history of the United States. I am convinced that it would be more subversive to genuinely believe in the constitution than to dismiss it.

>>451642
>no one can escape his concrete environmental upbringing and such
Then how the fuck are revolutionaries being made into existence? What a pile of fascistic vulgar-materialistic dehumanizing bullshit. Like hoomans are fucking animals who only adapt to their environment & not consciences who actively deny their surroundings and bend reality to their will.
Sure, maybe you can not escape your environment, but as a human you surely can fuck it up enough for it to escape you, just like porks do after any successfull people's revolution.

>humanism
>antithetical to communism, Marx & Engels
Did you use The Le Das Capitull for wiping your ass? Y'know, like a card-reader? How else coud you come to this absolutely deranged conclusion which contradicts the entire reason they despised the current state of things & actively tried to dismantle it @ least theoretically?
Why did Engels get rid of his share in his family's factory?
Why did Marx write his *dunno how they are named in engrish* Manuscripts?
Why did they both endure their hardships instead of pursuing the immense success they both could've achieved (& already had, & the start) in this society of accumulating capital?
Why did commies always state their ultimate wish as the fullest personal development of every human being as a pre-requisite for the fullest development of a society & the entire humanity as the ultimate goal for communism?

Humanism is literally what drove the socialists and communists to become marxists, read Kollontai to learn about that. & this is because humanism is the name of the way of conscience which helps you to overcome your alienation from the other and become communis with your peers, however retarded & anti-humanistic they might be.
Imagine not feeling sorry for perishing fascists for the totally degenerate nature of inescapable failure, death, guilt & destruction that was forced on them through their entire unlives. The best treatment you can give to a fash is the death, about which they fantasize allllllll the time. Kill them like mad dogs & they will be happy for the release from their neverending pointless existential torture.


Also
Maupin & Haz are literally on the russian payroll. Stop giving them any attention span unless it's through the iron sights.


>>467770
science, basically.