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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1652725243942.png ( 636.46 KB , 900x854 , 1652145390324.png )

 No.455272

I think hat block chain has huge benefit to mankind and how we can allocate resources in society but even crypto like bitcoin itself I think needs to be defended. Bitcoin and decentralized networks of finance, whether you believe it or not is Important IMO. Even if it flies in the face of our own ideals. It is a step forward for people. Think about how many people have never even entertained the ideals of decentralization before bitcoin and blockchain? Now its fresh in the ears of millions of people who may not have ever known such a formation was possible.

There's many powerful interests that want to see block chain destroyed or controlled by their influence. (The same people who we want to fight against)

And this is why I think we should be defending crypto at the end of the day.
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 No.455310

One of the problems with block-chain is that it is associated with crypto and people just can't wrap their mind around crypto; For many people, crypto is solving a problem that doesn't exist.

A basic presumption of currency is that it is limited and controlled; That's what makes money "money." If anyone had the ability to create unlimited amounts of money, the value behind the money becomes worthless.

You see in crypto that anyone can create their own (dogecoin, anyone?) and create more of it on a whim.

Furthermore, the environmental impact of "solving" crypto to "own" it has really tarnished it's reputation. Crypto needs to solve the "it's killing the spotted owl!" problem if it really wants to prosper with people who don't regard themselves as "Web 3.0" kind of people.
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 No.455315

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>>455310
Yeah the issue with the currency market in crypto is that 99% of them aren't currency. I don't think the current state of The market will be able to stop this tulip market but I think bitcoin, monero, and some other niche use cases prevail and will function in our current society fine.

I think bkockchain could be utilized by governing bodies for economic planning.
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 No.455317

>>455315
>>455310
thoughts on PoS coins like SOL, ADA, ALGO?
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 No.455318

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>>455317
I don't know enough about them but I know a ton of alt coins are either ponzi schemes or Etherum rip offs. I would day avoid though there are some I am interested in slightly like Avalanche and Chain Link though I don't know about the ones you posted.
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 No.463298

>>455272
Proof of work blockchains are rule by wealthy miner pool operators

Poof of stake blockchains are rule by the top 50% most wealthy in general

Nothing about either is even remotely leftist. The only use cryptocurrency has for leftists, is for those who get payment networks cut off. For example, paypal shutting them down or something.
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 No.463312

>>455315
>Yeah the issue with the currency market in crypto is that 99% of them aren't currency.
As far as functioning as currency goes, anything that crypto can do fiat can do better. The only exception is that certain coins can be used for purchasing contraband. Another problem with using crypto as currency is that most of it is stuck in hordes held by speculators. That's what happens with deflationary "currencies." It isn't currency if it is not moving.
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 No.463316

>>463312
>hordes → hoards
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 No.465330

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I unironically want crypto to take over the capitalist financial system - it's a perfect ticking time bomb. I'm sick of a nanny state saving capitalists ass and printing its way out of a crash and into a slow recession.
I popped a bottle of champagne when fed started the hikes. FINALLY! Hope inflation is here to stay.

Also, crypto is a massive help to the Norks in circumventing sanctions and fucking over the capitalist world. This is unironically its only positive use case lol,glad that Norks understood the real potential of crypto quickly.

It's a real shame that capitalist dogs seem to start to understand what a risk is crypto to the capitalist system if it gets wider traction, seeing the recent spillovers into the traditional financial system.
I only hope that profitability and inflationary pressures will win over the rationality of some sections of the bourgeoisie and traditional financial institutions get sucked in more and more into the crypto space. Cloud chasing is irresistible to capitalists after all. And anyway, more infighting inside the capitalist class is always good. Divide and conquer.
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 No.465331

>>465330
I don't think that the fed is going to keep up with slowing these rate hikes. I think inflation is going to come tearing back at us and we are going to see vulkner style rate hikes in the future. There's no way no matter how dovish the fed is that they would allow the country to succomb to something much worse than stagflation which is Weimar germany style inflation.

I agree it would be nice if unregulated crypto became common place but I don't think that normies are going to go for the crypto ponzi scheme after the last 2 years. I think bitcoin and monero could become main stays, though.
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 No.465333

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>>455272
Crypto currency aspired to be a-political finance. Unlike finance that is dominated by Wall-street. Apolitical finance is probably somewhat better or at least less dangerous. So it gets points for that.

However there are many problems.

Most crypto coins turned into get rich quick schemes, and that means most people stay away because it's too much effort to research which crypto isn't a pump and dump scam.

2 big strategical errors were made.
1. They appealed to investors who sought a "store of wealth" instead of a means for trading commodities.
2. They appealed to tax-evaders who sought to evade taxes, making governments fight against it.
The effect of this is that crypto could not ascend to the status of money, and wall-street could subjugate it to it's internal logic by treating it as some kind of speculative investment.

If you make a crypto-coin that has an easy interface for governments to do taxation and you design the system so that it appeals to commerce (simple, fast & cheap transactions) it has the potential to become a "real" currency.

Another big error was to have a dedicated group of miners who run the computations for the ledger, collectively burning as much energy as a medium sized country. There can be no mining-barons, and the energy consumption has to be competitive, meaning low.
Government have yeeted a huge chunk of crypto because:
Input : gigawatts of electricity and a million tonnes of semiconductor products
Output : 0 tonnes of anything

So it has to run on small computers that are cheap and low-power enough that you can make it mandatory to have one of these computers helping to maintain the blockchain ledger in order to use the currency. You buy the small computer thingy, you let it run and by doing that it gathers points for free transactions. Basically you pay for the hardware, electricity and internet connection of that small computer and that grants you a number of free transactions/day

From a technical perspective most block-chain grow way to large, you need to make it subdivide a lot and you need to truncate it periodically, by moving old transactions into an archive of some kind.

Right now a "killer feature" for a currency is being inflation-proof. So if you can find a way to make your crypto-coin have a fixed purchasing power relative to a broad commodity basket, that's an instant win.

It can't have pitfalls like Bitcoin where certain individual Bit-coins are black-listed and if you get one of these, you can't spend it, it needs to be relatively idiot proof.

You need privacy for consumers but not for commercial entities.
It's not a big problem if it can be used to buy recreational drugs for personal use. Small scale illegality is mostly irrelevant, but it can't enable the mafia to move large quantities of drugs or do human trafficking and so on. It's got to have pattern recognition where personal scale stuff goes through the privacy preserving pipe and medium or large scale stuff goes through the financial x-ray machine.

You have to replicate certain banking features, like security guarantees for deposits up to a certain size, because this is a financial system and it will have financial crashes, and you have to make it so that normal people using this can't loose their money/purchasing power, or else nobody is going to want to use it.

From a socialist perspective this is just another money-market-system that will have all the typical problems, like an inbuilt tendency to cause extremely lob-sided wealth distribution. If you want to get socialists at least a little excited about this, find a way to add some kind off inbuilt wealth redistribution to it. A socdem algorithm is not as good as Cybernetic socialism with economic planning using labor vouchers and material balances, but it's at least better than nothing.
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 No.465334

>>465331
>I think inflation is going to come tearing back at us and we are going to see vulkner style rate hikes in the future.
Volcker did it to crush the labor movement tho
what's the point of doing in now when the labor movement is non-existent? it's not gonna help

>I don't think that normies are going to go for the crypto ponzi scheme after the last 2 years.

I'm hoping more for institutional investors to go balls deep into crypto under the pressure of falling margins
so far they only dipped their toes
the recent bounce back gives me hope - it means someone has invested
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 No.465343

>the recent bounce back gives me hope - it means someone has invested
noticed I sound like a bag hodler high on copium lol

for reference, I only ever use crypto as a medium of exchange - cash in, cash out - to buy a 3 year vpn service
no point in using it for physical goods as they get tracked by the distribution network anyway

I was looking to buy a vps with crypto, but it's too much hassle to convert fiat - monero - bitcoin with bullshit fees at every step, and for what? so that your host can rat you out to the law enforcement at the first request? and those that promise not to and are located in romania or russia or something are shady as fuck
you better off hosting yourself in your basement behind an onion router - at least you would know when your machine is physically compromised
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 No.465344

>>465334
>Vulckner did it to crush the labor movement

Never heard this angle before. Explain
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 No.465346


>>465344
>Explain
the same logic as today when fed whines about high wages causing inflation
only then at least they had a case because unions were very strong and caused massive problems in the 70s when oil shock hit

Volcker by suddenly raising rates caused a massive wave of layoffs that crippled unions together with the rising wave of outsourcing to opening china

I don't see how shock would help in current situation - it might as well exacerbate the inflation spiral further lol
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 No.465354

>>465333
>If you make a crypto-coin that has an easy interface for governments to do taxation and you design the system so that it appeals to commerce (simple, fast & cheap transactions) it has the potential to become a "real" currency.
No, it doesn't. Crypto is a complete failure as currency for several reasons. Firstly, anything that it can do, fiat can do better. Euros, dollars, etc. can already do instantaneous transactions; there is no greater utility to be had–even potentially–in cyrpto"currency".
>Another big error was to have a dedicated group of miners who run the computations for the ledger, collectively burning as much energy as a medium sized country. There can be no mining-barons, and the energy consumption has to be competitive, meaning low.
Secondly, there is this. Crypto is the same scam that "free silver" was in the ninteenth century–it gets billed as "decentralization" and "people taking control of money," but the reality is that a handful of assholes at the top of the pyramid have control over the entire supply. It follows the rules of capital accumulation, which, SURPRISE!, is it's own undoing.
>So it has to run on small computers that are cheap and low-power enough that you can make it mandatory to have one of these computers helping to maintain the blockchain ledger in order to use the currency.
And it needs a network of people who have desktop computers and not just tablets and cell phones like most folks these days.
>Right now a "killer feature" for a currency is being inflation-proof.
This right here is probably the biggest failing of crypto as currency. Currency needs inflation to function. Without it, currency, especially so within a competitive market, gets pulled out of circulation to sit in what Marx called a hoard. When its value can be reasonably expected to increase that disincentivises spending it. Instead, it gets held on to while fiat gets used to make actual purchases. In essence it stops being current. What is the use of "currency" that is not current? The answer is, of course, to be a speculative asset. That is where crypto landed, and that is where it will stay.

Related to that, crypto has the major failing of being unable to be printed to fill a shortage and then drawn out of circulation before it has the chance to become sedentary. That has always been one of the principle advantages of fiat and why it has so long endured.
>From a socialist perspective this is just another money-market-system that will have all the typical problems, like an inbuilt tendency to cause extremely lob-sided wealth distribution.
Any socialist worth his salt recognizes that it is not a "money-market" at all but rather a pyramid scheme that keeps dragging in suckers who do not know how money actually works. I haven't even gotten into how crypto's volitility makes it incapable of serving as a functional basis for setting the prices of commodities.
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 No.465356

>>465354
>Related to that, crypto has the major failing of being unable to be printed to fill a shortage and then drawn out of circulation before it has the chance to become sedentary.
actually this all can be done in crypto too - just change the code
all you need is a few whales - major miners or stakers - to agree to it
you don't need to convince the whole network, you can force them
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 No.465358

also you can just keep dividing crypto into more and more smaller parts to de facto increase the supply
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 No.465359

>>465356
>>465358
Who is "you" in those scenarios?
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 No.465360

>>465359
the whales and devs
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 No.465361

>>465360
The whales are going to change the code on the coins that they themselves are stockpiling?
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 No.465363

>>465361
when facing a crash or even decreased growth? of course

otherwise capitalists would ditch your "digital gold" like they ditched the real gold
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 No.465365

>>465363
I am not seeing how such a thing would play out. What is this "crash?" Is it caused by the hoarding that said whales are engaged in? If so, how? Even in such a scenario, why would they eliminate their own coins instead of exchanging them for other speculative assets?

What is "growth" in this case? Just line-go-up on the price of the asset?
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 No.465367

>>465365
I was more talking about a hypothetical scenario where some crypto replaces fiat
in this case a "crash" would mean a recession with a chain reaction
in such a situation the pressure on whales from the suffering bourgeoisie would be such that they will cave in

if we're talking about a situation where crypto remains on the margins of the capitalist system - then a "crash" would mean a crash in price, ie due to the decreasing influx of new investors
in such a situation whales may find it to be more profitable to increase the supply beyond the cap to attract new investors

>Even in such a scenario, why would they eliminate their own coins instead of exchanging them for other speculative assets?

Again, if we're talking about crypto as a reserve currency - in a crash all is going to be in red
the crypto would be the safest harbor if it's anything like gold

if we're talking about crypto as it is today - they just can't, even if they want
they need to convert to fiat first, and if the whales try to cash out majority of their coins - they will crash the price and the crypto market will run out of liquidity faster than a leaky bucket in a desert
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 No.465372

>>465367
>in such a situation the pressure on whales from the suffering bourgeoisie would be such that they will cave in
What pressure can smaller porkies put on big porkies? The big ones like to devour the weaker, smaller ones, not help them up when they fall down.
>in such a situation whales may find it to be more profitable to increase the supply beyond the cap to attract new investors
Wouldn't that likley come in the form of more mining?
>Again, if we're talking about crypto as a reserve currency - in a crash all is going to be in red
the crypto would be the safest harbor if it's anything like gold
I would hesitate to call something that is so prone to price fluctuations a safe harbor.
>if the whales try to cash out majority of their coins - they will crash the price and the crypto market will run out of liquidity faster than a leaky bucket in a desert
Just don't be the last sucker holding the coins.
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 No.465392

>>465372
>What pressure can smaller porkies put on big porkies?
the pressure of greater numbers
it's also not necessary that other, industry oriented, porkies are less bigger and influential
capitalists also try to diversify so I imagine whales would have assets across multiple industries, just like banks dabble in everything

>Wouldn't that likley come in the form of more mining?

miners live off transaction fees after network hits the cap

>I would hesitate to call something that is so prone to price fluctuations a safe harbor.

I imagine it would stabilize if it gets adopted as a reserve currency

>Just don't be the last sucker holding the coins.

that's the problem - the whale would be holding the bag long before he can completely cash out, there is just that little liquidity to go around relative to the market cap

it's more profitable to get a loan with your crypto "assets" as a collateral or something
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 No.465408

>>465392
>the pressure of greater numbers
Those greater numbers had better be expressions of capital value.
>it's also not necessary that other, industry oriented, porkies are less bigger and influential
Are you thinking like Bezos butting heads with Buffett? That would get ugly.
>capitalists also try to diversify so I imagine whales would have assets across multiple industries, just like banks dabble in everything
In this global capitalism, ownership of everything really is spread out across the entire ruling class.
>I imagine it would stabilize if it gets adopted as a reserve currency
Crypto would have to be currency before it can be a reserve currency, and it is really bad at that.
>it's more profitable to get a loan with your crypto "assets" as a collateral or something
Lel, it's funny how much of finance boils down to just scammers scamming scammers.

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