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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File (hide): 1654714677666.mp4 ( 8.04 MB , 510x720 , The American dream.mp4 ) [play once] [loop]

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▶ No.455421

QTDDTOT - Questions that don't need their own thread. The last one died, so here post your questions here.

I couldn't find it so i'll make a new one.
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▶ No.455422>>455424

[Embed]
What does leftychan think of lil tay? are you a fan or a hater?…
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▶ No.455423>>455426

File (hide): 1654720621690.jpeg ( 35.17 KB , 640x479 , images - 2022-06-09T06363….jpeg )

is it worth it to study Hegel? How does the Marxist even interpret his works? Just replace every time he mentions spirit or god with matter?
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▶ No.455424

File (hide): 1654764104627.jpg ( 29.79 KB , 604x476 , 1654733211697.jpg )

>>455422
Lil tay is actually quite tragic and is a good example of how far our society has gone off the deep end in the chase for and the generation of profits. she's the result of a lot of exploitation by everyone around her and will likely have a lot of mental issues as she continues to grow up.
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▶ No.455426

>>455423
Yes if you're a philosopher, no if you aren't.
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▶ No.455427>>455428

Pedo thread
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▶ No.455428>>455433

>>455427
Ok newfag
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▶ No.455433>>455434>>455442

>>455428
>random child "content creator" link (much politics)
>unrelated child as OP (zoz, if you've been around small imageboards you know what I'm talking about. At least put some anime pic if you wanna shill so much and I wouldn't suspect that much)
>lainfaggot replying to it all
<mfw only 3 posts in
Just remake this thread ffs

Fuck this website for letting you subhumans roam free. I know at least 1 is reading this and I hope you have a horrible, slow and insufferable death you'll make the world a better place
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▶ No.455434

>>455433
What the fuck
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▶ No.455442

File (hide): 1654953782269.gif ( 1.66 MB , 252x252 , 1652584961965.gif )

>>455433
Take your meds skitzo
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▶ No.456768>>456769>>456813

I get that communism transitions from totalitarian government to a stateless society, but why does it take so long to transition from that, why hasn't any socialist movement reached communism?

In an Anarchist society there will still be domination from people.
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▶ No.456769>>456784

>>456768
It doesn't have to be totalitarian this is the worst possible outcome.
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▶ No.456784>>456787

>>456769
Of course it does, do you really think the bourgeois and reactionary classes are just going to sit back and let you seize their wealth?

It's like Engles said:
<"revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon — authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists. Would the Paris Commune have lasted a single day if it had not made use of this authority of the armed people against the bourgeois? Should we not, on the contrary, reproach it for not having used it freely enough?"
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▶ No.456787

>>456784
Retard do you think Marx and Engels were defeatists? The counter to this is a bottom up democratic organization of society and a social movement the leads to such and is such itself. Deleon is probably the most immediate contemporary of such ideology but Anarcho syndicalism is probably the next best measure
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▶ No.456813>>456860

>>456768
Socialism often appeared in countries that were incredibly backwards, so much so that two of the biggest communist states in history have adopted some form of capitalism at one point or another. The technological and industrial base required for communism simply wasn't available to them during the time of revolution, and by the time they approached such requirements, it was too late; ideological rot had set in and they no longer believed that communism was possible.
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▶ No.456857>>456858>>456860>>458176

Obviously the rich bring problems, but would you say for example that the gays don't bring any problems?gays are a minority and would just be an after thought but If it wasn't for the rich there would no promotion of homosexuality into society.(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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▶ No.456858>>456864

File (hide): 1662580969312.jpg ( 47.33 KB , 622x636 , 1631753990398.jpg )

>>456857
Homosexuality isn't an ideology. It's probably partially psychological and partially nature. At any rate you are a ignorant faggot for believing such retarded nonsense. People aren't gay because they are being hypnotized by the rich you moronic fuck.
It doesn't even really matter why they are gay. That's not really your business.

Next I am sure you will try and equate all homosexuality with the flamboyant faggots who first each other ont he streets of Germany but of course this is a stereotype pulled right out of failchan.

Fuck off retard.
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▶ No.456860>>458325

>>456813
>Socialism often appeared in countries that were incredibly backwards
Yeah but the backwardness was incidental, 20th century socialism appeared in the weak-spots of the capitalist imperial system. Lenin said that socialism could arise in Russia in 1917 because it represented such a weak-spot.

>>456857
>we need rich people for social progress.
Rich people aren't actually supportive of social progress, they play both sides, and fund regression too, they just use sex politics to divide society against it self.
We never needed rich people to undo the persecution of sexuality, in fact the wealth inequality is an active impediment for social progress of this type.
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▶ No.456864>>456867

>>456858
>Fuck off retard.
No, fuck you, i'll post where i please.
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▶ No.456867

>>456864
That's fine you're welcome to post here. Just try not to spread such retardation. At least come at it objectively rather than letting your feelings dictate the way you feel and think about others.
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▶ No.458176

>>456857
Not surprised, Pride was started by lumpens and petty bourgois.
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▶ No.458325

>>456860
>Yeah but the backwardness was incidental, 20th century socialism appeared in the weak-spots of the capitalist imperial system
The "weak spots" were supposed to be the most industrialized societies where the workers are most "oppressed". But as Mussolini observed when he quit the Italian socialist party, standard of living for european workers was rising so fast there was no apatite for any kind of class based revolution.
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▶ No.458496>>458497>>458499

In the manifesto and in other works, Marx and Engels criticize several different forms of socialism (feudal, petty-bourgeois, German, conservative/bourgeois, utopian). They also talk critically about primitive communism and barracks communism.
For each of the examples given, are M&E using the words "socialism" and "communism" seriously or not?
If undesirable forms of socialism or communism can exist, how does one best identify and avoid them?
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▶ No.458497

File (hide): 1665127630054.png ( 45.26 KB , 240x273 , wojak-karl-marx-crying-ang….png )

>>458496
>No! Don't listen to LaSalle. Only my type of socialism is the true socialism. You must follow me!
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▶ No.458499

>>458496
At that point it's a matter of personal opinion to a degree but I think concepts like "Freedom, liberty, Fraternity" are something most socialists would agree is a good metric to base these opinions off of

We tred the realm of uncharted waters in modern political socialism, truly.
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▶ No.463684>>463686>>463744

File (hide): 1673055501357.png ( 2.8 MB , 2934x1376 , Screen Shot 2023-01-06 at ….png )

How in the fuck do the liberals stomach this shit and "the poor kulaks!" in the same breath?
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▶ No.463686>>463740>>463744

>>463684
Grey is just putting out an observation of how things work, not how they should work. As for the Holodomor, well that shit was pretty bad. I wouldn't handwave it that easily. Genocide denial isn't really the leftist thing to do.
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▶ No.463740>>463742

File (hide): 1673065289757.pdf ( 5.84 MB , 67x118 , Tottle, Douglas - Fraud, F….pdf )

>>463686
>Genocide denial isn't really the leftist thing to do.
Neither is repeating debunked Nazi propaganda to support your bellicose ethnonationalist world view.
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▶ No.463742>>463743>>463799>>463817

>>463740
Holodomor happened. Stop denying Stalin's genocide.
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▶ No.463743>>463751

>>463742
In fact the actual genocide that happened in recent Ukrainian history was the massacre of Jews, Poles, and Roma people by Stepan Bandera followers during WWII.
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▶ No.463744

>>463684
>>463686
I meant the argument of "having to stick to your interests" when if that logic was strictly true, dekulakization would never have been possible.
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▶ No.463751

>>463743
That's another genocide, and it should not be swept under the rug. You are correct.
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▶ No.463799

>>463742
Lol, you dumbass. The entire academia and even the most anticommunist historians deny "Stalin's genocide". No one believes it anymore because there is no evidence to support it, plain and simple. The only people who still believe in the Holodomor today are deranged far rightists.
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▶ No.463817

>>463742
Read a fucking book uyghur
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▶ No.463841

Am I gae?

I don't feel like gae… but ppl keep calling me gae.
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▶ No.468908>>468909>>468910

File (hide): 1682515971261.jpg ( 141.32 KB , 762x500 , ELZN.jpg )

This question is to Marxist-Leninists, Leninists and orthodox Marxists.
> 0) which are you?
> 1) Would you classify the Zapatista-controlled society as socialism (or achieving socialist MoP)?
Why/Why not?

inb4 they tend to denounce western labels
I know. I'm not asking them, I'm asking you about your world-view.
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▶ No.468909

>>468908
"Orthodox"?
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▶ No.468910

File (hide): 1682518480072.jpg ( 219.72 KB , 1080x1001 , IMG_20230426_211340.jpg )

>>468908
Socialism with ugly and ghey characteristics
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▶ No.468978>>468981>>468984>>468989

Why do people hate Trostkyists? I'm not really sure and I don't know why Trostky himself was bad especially?
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▶ No.468981>>474495

>>468978
>Why do people hate Trostkyists?
In the west many Trots became neocons, dubbed the "Trot-to-neocon pipeline", chearing for most of the neocon wars and various imperial designs.
This isn't true for all trots tho, like for example the ones writing the WSWS newspaper thoses didn't, they are basically accusing the neocons of being stalinists.
>I'm not really sure and I don't know why Trostky himself was bad especially?
Trotsky was a talented revolutionary but later when he went to mexico he just trash talked the USSR. He kinda should have made revolution in mexico.
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▶ No.468984

>>468978
Pidgeonholing and generalization. The one uniting factor among Trotskyist sects is infamous sectarianism, but frankly it's a characteristic of most left groups since the Russian Revolution. There's a million different Trotskyist sects and they often disagree on positions, including positions stemming from inconsistent positions that Trotsky himself had during his lifetime.
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▶ No.468989

>>468978
He was literally a grifter and his followers are among the most insufferable people politicallly
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▶ No.473098>>473100>>473129

File (hide): 1694118352750.jpg ( 148.29 KB , 827x465 , 20230730_215227.jpg )

What are some good honest books on the DPRK? Could go over anything, from everyday life,to the political apparatus, or whatever else. I just wanna know more about living in the DPRK
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▶ No.473100>>473103

>>473098
>>473098
The parties home page literally has like all the books ever written by influential people in NK.
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▶ No.473103

>>473100
link ?. also no ngo glowie site
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▶ No.473129

>>473098
Check the works of Bruce Cumings
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▶ No.474495>>474497>>474502

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>>468981
>In the west many Trots became neocons, dubbed the "Trot-to-neocon pipeline", chearing for most of the neocon wars and various imperial designs.
Is there anything explaining things? I've seen a lot of people call Trotskyists instigators and saboteurs.
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▶ No.474497>>474501

>>474495
Trotsky sabotaged the ussr with his petty-bourgeois opportunism. He always proposed shitty policies. He and his followers would sabotage the congresses by stalling. After he was purged for consistently being retarded, he died in a Mexican villa organizing against the movement in exchange for Porky's stipends and protection.

Trotskyites today only exist to make money and sabotage the movement. They infiltrate communist parties and destroy them as a profession by wasting time and being sectarian in nature.
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▶ No.474501>>474522

>>474497
That's a rather crude overgeneralization, don't you think? I don't think garbage like CPUSA need any help being infiltrated and destroyed. If anything, it seems like some of the most successful socialist and communist groups in the US are Trots, including Socialist Alternative and PSL. Granted there's a lot of other utterly irrelevant ones, but that's why generalizations are silly.
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▶ No.474502

>>474495
Their methods of entryism
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▶ No.474522>>474550>>474829

>>474501
This is not generalization. This is the function and nature of all true trotskyites. Not all people who call themselves trotskyists are necessarily trotskyites in function. The American communists are/were materially cucked for many reasons, but I will say that the cancerous infestation of the counter-rev tendancy known as trotskyism comes naturally to American communists;for, they're all out to make a quick buck and detract from the revolutionary momentum in other countries and actually existing socialist states due to their imperialist position in this world. Trotskites are more numerous, "successful", and are even given platforms in imperialist countries because the superstructure reflects the material base. Everything a Trotskyite either preaches or actually believes only leads to the destruction actual sociaism.
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▶ No.474550

>>474522
Trostkyism is just a pathological desire to side with a loser (due to one's own sense of inferiority), which eventually gives way to a 'if you can't beat them, join them' attitude.

Hence, the Trot to Neocon/Sucdem pipeline
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▶ No.474829

>>474522
Okay so troskyists want to sabotage the movement. Given that why is my local org recruiting a bunch of people and making them read marxist ideas while believing that stalin is evil and that trostsky was based?

What I mean is they are actively getting more people into their org just to sabotage it? That doesn't make sense.
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▶ No.476503>>476504>>476508>>476583

File (hide): 1698552670799.jpg ( 97.55 KB , 496x800 , 20231028_224240.jpg )

I got Mao's little red book recently and it feels… small. Like I'm just not getting in depth with enough. It's a bit *too* piecemeal for me, even if I haven't read Mao yet. Are there any better essential works of his I can buy? What's the most important to look at?
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▶ No.476504

>>476503
Anthology of Mao Tse Tung by Ann Freemantle(maybe spelled wrong, but you can find it)

Just covers the important stuff up through the new democratic period.

There's literally no reason to read post 64 Mao. By that point, he was bat shit crazy and spent more time banging 16 year olds than anything else.

>Also anon. Are you really so retarded that you expected a book of quotes compiled during the height of a cult of personality to be deep or insightful?
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▶ No.476508>>476509

>>476503
Wasn't that the point of the red book? It was produced enmass to be easily accessible to the working class of the time wasn't it?
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▶ No.476509

>>476508
Sweet summer child….
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▶ No.476583

>>476503
On Contraction fixes dialectics so it's a good one
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▶ No.476663>>476685

How does one become more than a hippie in red clothes? I'm not unfit, I'm not a booklet, and I learned to stop being autistic and listen more than talk, but everything I do is still only performative. The most important thing is to integrate yourself among the workers, but even with a tradie background I never fit in. What is the solution? Even Trotskyists are somewhat capable of integrating even if they commit the error of creating sects within the trade unions.
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▶ No.476685>>476689>>476692

>>476663
The issue is that moving into the real world and real politic is impossible in the modern era because normies are so braindead.
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▶ No.476689>>476690

>>476685
It's almost as if the leftoid assumption that the masses are some vehicle for progressive change is misguided…..
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▶ No.476690>>476691

>>476689
It's almost like you are a massive dejected retard and your constant probing here for (you)s is a pathetic attempt at getting attention your dad never gave you.


Study some history dumb fuck.
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▶ No.476691>>476697>>476699

>>476690
Lashing out at me won't resolve your cognitive dissonance anon
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▶ No.476692>>476693

>>476685
>normies are so braindead.
many have false consciousness, but they're not brain-dead

>assumption that the masses are some vehicle for progressive change is misguided
So you want enlightened despotism instead ? That's risky business.

The political strategy that relies on the masses is harder but once it's set up it becomes an unstoppable force, and it's less prone to an excessive rate of change.
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▶ No.476693>>476694

>>476692
>The political strategy that relies on the masses is harder but once it's set up it becomes an unstoppable force, and it's less prone to an excessive rate of change.

This is something between wishful thinking and talking out of your ass.

You're allowed to have faith in something. But you look foolish when you try to back it up by logic and evidence which simply isn't there.
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▶ No.476694>>476695>>476700

>>476693
You scolded that other anon for "lashing out" and now you are doing the same thing.

Involving more people in the political processes is effective. In the 1990s the Chinese began what they call deliberative democracy, which bares resemblance to what we would call grass-roots-democracy. The Chinese state has leaned into this process since and delegated a not inconsiderable amount of political power to it. The results are decent, they had to give up a lot of control over local politics but they gained a lot of stability in return. The world has gotten very complicated you can't micromanage a society anymore.

You also haven't really explained why you think mass politics can't work.

Some people argue that in current conditions only military coups can change politics, is that you're point ?
Well if you want to go that route, i would advise you to lean into mass political participation after your coup, because otherwise you'll end up with a bloody civil war.
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▶ No.476695>>476696>>476699

>>476694
have you ever been outside of the western hemisphere?
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▶ No.476696>>476698>>476699>>476700

>>476695
stop asking personal questions
just present your counter arguments
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▶ No.476697>>476700

>>476691
Study history you basement dwelling loser.
You have the time.
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▶ No.476698>>476700

>>476696
He has none.
He bases his entire politics on hating the left because he thinks it's edgy.
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▶ No.476699>>476701>>476702

>>476696
Political rule in China relies on local collaboration from agents whose sole occupation is enforcing top-down regulations and snitching.

Any revolution in history has been carried out by a leading cadre often drawn from the petty bourgeoisie, albeit with the support of the diverse array of people. There has never been a revolution spontaneously directed by 'the masses.' Occasionally, you get revolts which are seized upon by a highly organized minoritarian vanguard party, such as in Russia.


>>476695
>>476691
>>476696

Seething samefag. Perhaps if you were so smart, you wouldn't be stuck in trailer park-esque conditions. You'd be able to liberate yourself from your own miserable state. Instead, youre larping as some communist revolutionary on a dead image board (literally so incompetent that you can't even bring more traffic to this site), while just about no one from the 'working class' gives a dusty fuck about your hair-brained theories about mass participation.

What a fucking joke
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▶ No.476700>>476701

>>476698
>>476697
>>476696
>>476694
sorry. This seething samefag
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▶ No.476701>>476710

File (hide): 1699817357694.jpg ( 108.25 KB , 1080x809 , 169967141581.jpg )

>>476699
So you are basically arguing that the great man theory of history is the most influential political force in history (in 2023) and that because only
successfull" political revolutions in the past have been carried out, planned, and organized by great men that, for some reason, that you will not explain, this means now that a decentralized, more collective revolution cannot be lead in the modern era? Ignoring the fact that basically the whole of history since the industrial revolution, especially in the united states, was lead and organized by labor unions and syndicates in leftists countries that don't fit into your propaganda narrative about the USSR? Am I getting this right?

>>476700

Cope
>>

▶ No.476702

>>476699
>Political rule in China relies on local collaboration from agents whose sole occupation is enforcing top-down regulations and snitching.
I don't know what you mean with this "agent-based-governnance", but china does not have a uniform regulatory environment, different provinces have different regulations.

>Any revolution in history has been carried out by a leading cadre often drawn from the petty bourgeoisie, albeit with the support of the diverse array of people.
Yes all successful revolutions had revolutionary cadres, and they wouldn't have succeed without the masses.
>There has never been a revolution spontaneously directed by 'the masses.'
But nobody has argued for a spontaneous revolt in this thread ?

>a highly organized minoritarian vanguard party, such as in Russia.
Minoritarian ?
Bolsheviki means majority faction
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▶ No.476710>>476724

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>>476701
You should spend more time actually trying to prove your point by organizing something in the real world, not fingerwaving on your dead image board.

Or, at the very least, maybe you could invite some members of the 'working class' to participate here. Display some sort of competence in organizing the masses lol

…Anything that would vindicate your faith-based view that the masses are the makers of history

I won't hold my breath.
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▶ No.476724

>>476710
Are you brain dead or something?
You need a physically see a labor strike for what?? To prove that labor intrinsically has more power than capital? What even are you trying to prove?
Since you want to be a child I will hold your hand and walk you through the last 100 years of industrial organizing in the unit d. You realize people fought and died for the things you take for granted today right? Things like the 8 hour work day. All of this was done through collective bargaining and organizing labor.
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▶ No.477392

File (hide): 1703366991409.jpg ( 47.04 KB , 600x800 , 20231204_080506.jpg )

OK so recently I got the essential works of Lenin. I was really excited to get into it, but it's really hard to grasp. I read a good bit of "The Development of Capitalism in Russia" without knowing he meant communist when he was saying social Democrat. He also brings up so many newspapers that my head is in a constant spin trying to remember who is who. Should I just read Stalin's work on Leninism? Or is there a better work that kinda puts all this simply? I'm sad that I'm struggling with this,and I haven't gotten to State and Revolution, but it's kinda sapped most of my excitement for reading this.

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