/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>467925
>Why does the left have such a massive issue with protecting itself against Cluster B (BPD, NPD, ASPD) types worming their way into orgs and up the ladder? Why do in particular, BPD's gravitate to the left?

Most of the left doesn't enjoy causing suffering to others, so this stuff doesn't comm naturally. On top of that Psychology has a "low materialism score". You can't really rely on hard measurements from some hypothetical futuristic brain-scanner to give you fully objective data. That makes it very hard to distinguish between correct and incorrect Psychological thesis.

On top of that many people on the left think more like artists, engineers and scientists, so most of the mental focus is directed at stuff like shaping matter and understanding matter. Mind-games and psycho-terror doesn't come easy.

People on the left have a really strong preference for systemic thinking, instead of trying to get rid of these people, people look for structural ways to negate their destructive influence. And that's much harder. To be fair here if you can create a structural-fix it's super efficient, routing out the wreckers comes with much higher effort and failure-rate. Structural-fixes don't harm innocent people.

>i've been involved in and watched them time and time again wreck movements and orgs across multiple countries.
Yeah that's probably not entirely organic, there's likely quite a number of instances of glowie involvement promoting the wreckers

>I mean, just look at all the Nu-Gender theory Idpol shit which is pretty much Borderline Personality Disorder the movement, yet the Baizuo lets these people pretty much set the "purity requirement" for the modern left despite their positions being completely schizo, slippery sloping by the day and incoherent.
The key-mechanism in "Nu-Gender theory" is that it doesn't allow people to opt-out. You aren't allowed to say "i don't have a gender-id, just a sex". And that was overlooked, an intellectual error. This no-opt-out element makes it function like a secular theocracy. But people didn't catch it because nobody had seen anything other than religious theocracy. They didn't make any supernatural claims and hence the defense mechanisms didn't recognize it as a threat.

The organization-shrinking purity spirals aren't a new problem, and found in every politics not just on the left. Better culture for the masses to counter the culture for the in-group-clique, might help.

>It's a clear weakness of the left that organisational discipline doesn't seem to kick in against these types and that people seem terrified of calling them out.

While it's true that bad behavior is often given a pass when it shouldn't, there are other considerations. Creating organizational mechanisms to rout out the destructive element often get co-opted by the destructive element. They enjoy it to excommunicate others while we don't, this behavioral preference puts us at a huge disadvantage when it comes to this.

Leftists are usually low value people who are looking for ways to feel good about themselves. Thus, they often create imaginary moral hierarchies.
>I'm better than you because I adhere to a a set of beliefs which make me a good person
Fake, ghey, tiresome, etc

I've wondered this myself. I can only speak for myself but I was raised by a narcissistic mother that would destroy any boundaries I tried to setup with her and this followed me into adult life. I think a lot of people on the left were raised like this. I think this is why the left is love loathe to critique even the worse excesses of feminism because they are conditioned to not set boundaries with women.
I kinda think it's a Millennial thing and not necessarily a "left" thing.

>>467938
I'm really sorry to hear that. Probably the best advice I can give is to let go of the anger and resentment, to try to remember the better times and forget the worst, to somewhat create a new narrative of what she was like, one in which she was a bit more caring, less abusive, etc. You have absolutely nothing to gain from holding onto bad feelings and letting that past continue to color your personal life today.. but this also doesn't mean you need to surround yourself with her and thus be easily emotionally influenced by her to this day.

I think it's far more likely that people with ASPD, or sociopathy and psychopathy in general, are on the right. All you need to do is look at how many mass shooters, violent criminals, and abusive business owners gravitate to far-right politics. But I digress.
What the contemporary left shares in common with BPD and NPD is a strong desire to wield moral authority over others. The left is very much defeatist in nature, as a result of capitalist realism, and thus tends towards hyper-moralization over non-political issues rather than political action. This naturally attracts people who feel the need to moralize. People with BPD and NPD use excessive moralization to cover their lack of self-esteem.
In addition, contemporary left is traditionally oriented towards solutions that avoid direct violence. People with BPD and NPD see themselves as weak and typically prefer to manipulate others rather than to use the overt threat of violence. This stands in contrast to those on the right, who are happy to use violence to enforce their preferred social norms, and hence why I consider ASPD to be a more right-wing phenomenon.

Because there is no material basis for genuine policial movements, Marxist or not. All across the board politics is essentially an extracurricular club with minimal substance. Even the main parties in any western country operate like this. I agree that wreckers have a will always exist. But I think the reason they are rampant now is because they don’t need to have any sort of political caliber.

>>467946
Politics does still exist, but what we call politics is often pseudo-politics, creating the perception that we live in a post-political world. To make things even more confusing, real politics today assumes the appearance of the non-political.

>>467947
I’m not saying we live in a post political world. More so we live in a political stagnation so to speak. When people say “we just need the right movement” or “we just need the right people” that’s a very idealist worldview. Material conditions need to be correct to push people into serious politics.

>>467949
>material conditions
Pseudo-Marxist buzzword. Political agency exists and belief is a material force. What has changed most dramatically in the past 60-40 years is not (just) "material conditions", but the social-psychological climate. That is the only barrier to real politics now. If anything, material conditions are more ripe than ever for revolution. Yet not only are people unable to imagine coherent alternatives to capitalism, they struggle to make even the most basic assessment of so-called material conditions.

>>467950
>material conditions
>pseudo Marxist buzzword
????

>>467951
It's the same with "dialectics", "contradiction", etc.
These words once had useful meanings but now they're just part of an vague ideological fog that people confuse with Marxism.
A similar example would be to ask the average person on the street what socialism means. Elon Musk and Bill Gates might as well be socialists.

>>467953
I’m pretty sure those are actual Marxist terms despite its misuse tho. Like even if the term reactionary is butchered constantly that doesn’t negate it’s existence

>>467925
This seems like a thinly-veiled ragepost against a BPD girl who ruined OP's life.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32614222/ - This, NPD/BPD are drawn to places where they can get clout by playing victim since it's an unending source of narcissistic supply. (They're energy vampires)
White Leftists also find it hard to stop wreckers who are of a "victimised" minority, like mentally ill, POC etc because you run the high risk of being called a reactionary, non-empathetic, bigoted. It was this stuff that got Amber kicked from DSA when she went up against the NPD led "Disability caucus" wrecking and smearing of DSA comrades.

>>467943
>I think it's far more likely that people with ASPD, or sociopathy and psychopathy in general, are on the right.

I agree with this, even high level NPD's and Psychopaths will gravitate towards Establishment politics as it is where the actual power and money lies. Disordered NPDs and BPDs will go for the left because they can seize power/supply in such weak spaces with no discipline. Violent ASPD will be whoever smashes (Alt-Right, Anarchist). Seriously spend some time around Anarchists, it's mentally ill sociopath central.

>>467963
Idpol is very much establishment politics.
Leftists who engage in and with Idpol are either grifters/narcissists, glowies, or useful idiots.

>>467943
>What the contemporary left shares in common with BPD and NPD is a strong desire to wield moral authority over others.
This, the left has a really bad case of idealism. They see communism as a destination instead of a process. And adhere to "good" polices instead of "bad" ones so reforms are shit all over like they're undermining revolution so we don't get reform or fucking revolution.
Also social media making social influence or "clout" out and out profitable poured gasoline all over this already raging dumpster fire.

>>467961
>Seriously spend some time around Anarchists, it's mentally ill sociopath central.
Facts, and they wind up hurting or blowing out anyone that's moderate which is the majority of people, with their bullshit.

>>467986
please tell me this is an AI image

>>467986
As I explained in the rest of my post, the cause of leftist hypermoralization is defeatism due to capitalist realism. Communism and revolution aren't goals anymore, just ideological justification. Idealism in this instance is merely another symptom of regression.

>>467960
>Leftists also find it hard to stop wreckers who are of a "victimised" minority, like mentally ill, POC etc because you run the high risk of being called a reactionary, non-empathetic, bigoted.
I feel this is what the Nu-Gender Trans cult largely relies on. They push more and more ridiculous positions (Xenogender, 2 Spirit, illegally giving HRT drugs to children) and know they can get away with it because everyone is too scared to call out their asses and TERF has become the new "Nazi" in Leftist discourse.
>>467938
>Millennial thing and not necessarily a "left" thing.
I do think this plays a part.
>>467943
>In addition, contemporary left is traditionally oriented towards solutions that avoid direct violence. People with BPD and NPD see themselves as weak and typically prefer to manipulate others rather than to use the overt threat of violence.
Agreed, but then is the left so unable to police against BPD/NPD abuse and behaviour. It's not like these people aren't extremely obvious, just people refuse to stop them.

>>467991
It is easy enough to call the sexual politics shit what it is without succumbing to weakness. What is difficult is answering the underlying question which makes that sexual politics a constant pressure that can be used to derail politics. It forces the left to take a stand in favor of eugenic separation of certain undesirables, without taking care to judge what these things are. The Marxist philosophy doesn't allow for genuine dissent in the ranks of the movement - it's a total system by design, so there is an implied orthodox sexual politics. This is why sexual politics was a preferred vehicle for destabilizing communism, in addition to all of the things that suggested sexual politics was a psychological vehicle to disrupt any mass politics. At its core is a seething contempt for the very idea that democratic assemblies are possible, and this too was a weakness of the Marxist thinking on the political. Ultimately Marxism and a democratic society were incompatible, but this was mystified because the concept of democracy itself was no longer comprehensible except as a vague idea. A meaningful democracy would entail the people receiving their shit back as a first step, before any concessions to the state or "society" as an abstraction are considered. That was the bare minimum for socialism to be situation people wanted to maintain, and so far as socialism was successful, it did pay attention to people wanting their shit back and a degree of freedom to live their damn lives. The same strategies that destroy any nascent democratic forms were very applicable to socialist societies, because they never overcame their philosophical weaknesses. Mao at least was trying to bridge that gap but good luck getting that through with how fucked China was in 1949.

What creeps me out, personally, isn't so much that it happens - of course it does, and in at least some cases it's very clear that the success of wreckers is down to some very shady people trying to promote them and use them to subvert organizations.

What creeps me out, personally, more even than the presence of bad actors and ill-will… is people apparently falling for it. Again and again. Like how fucking stupid are these people?

It just happens all the time - bad ideas, cynical clawing for power, idpol guilt tripping, weird coked out idpol cults like Black Hammer… for fuck's sake, people! Come on. It's fucking ridiculous the shit people fall for, and not just when the most egregious idpol schizos are doing it. The rise of Keir Starmer basic followed the same pattern on a larger scale, but in support of the blandest, shittiest ""centrist"" possible. It's so, so sad having seen this unfold from the United States, because I stupidly assumed that people in the UK might be a bit keener, might have learned from Blair… but no, doesn't seem like it, all it took was insane lies about Corbyn repeated often enough to get him out of the way.

People really ought to be able to see through this shit by now, but they rarely do!

>>468091
*basically followed

>>467991
>Agreed, but then is the left so unable to police against BPD/NPD abuse and behaviour. It's not like these people aren't extremely obvious, just people refuse to stop them.

Well, I wonder about that tbqh… because the degree of concession is frankly a bit confusing, you know? Even if privately some folks higher up might admit that the stuff these folks do is shit, if you say it yourself you might feel pretty alone. If the whole group is just lying, just letting a few folks abuse the rest of them to be "diplomatic"… well, it's almost difficult to believe.

>>468091
>is people apparently falling for it. Again and again. Like how fucking stupid are these people?

From experience, this has happened to me several times since I WILL call out bullshit.
Every time this happens, I get octricised from the group. Why? Because wreckers have their allies and those who benefit from the wrecking who whill use your calling them out as bad faith as evidence of your "reactionary beliefs" or whatever, then you have a whole bunch of useful idiots, who just play along because they don't want to be seen as bad or half the time, want to fuck the wrecker (usually a transwoman or woman).
Right now, go into any Leftist fbi.gov, Subreddit, Libcom, Revleft and callout the insane idpol bullshit, even from a Marxist position and watch what happens, your account won't survived the day.
People are just that dumb as well, it's very rare to actually come across Leftists who are Leftists based on a position of theory rather than "muh morals", this is why most leftist slurp down reactionary, liberal idpol, because it "sounds nice", "is the moral thing to do" rather than it having any grounding in a theoretical backing.