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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1695281858851.jpg ( 23.99 KB , 330x438 , bookmanhead.jpg )

 No.474269

Azerbaijani forces strike Armenian-controlled Karabakh, raising risk of new Caucasus war
Azerbaijan sent troops backed by artillery strikes into Armenian-controlled Nagorno-Karabakh on Tuesday in an attempt to bring the breakaway region to heel by force, raising the threat of a new war with its neighbour Armenia. Karabakh is internationally recognised as Azerbaijani territory but part of it is run by separatist Armenian authorities who say the area is their ancestral homeland. The South Caucasus region has been at the centre of two wars - the latest in 2020 - since the 1991 fall of the Soviet Union.
https://www.reuters.com/world/azerbaijan-says-six-its-citizens-were-killed-by-land-mines-karabakh-2023-09-19/

Communications cut to flood-hit Libya city after protests
Communications were severed Tuesday to the flood-hit Libyan city of Derna and journalists were asked to leave, a day after hundreds protested against authorities they blamed for the thousands of deaths. A tsunami-sized flash flood broke through two ageing river dams upstream from the city on the night of September 10 and razed entire neighbourhoods, sweeping untold thousands into the Mediterranean Sea.
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2023/09/communications-cut-flood-hit-libya-city-after-protests

Tunisian authorities evict hundreds of undocumented sub-Saharan migrants
TUNISIAN authorities carried out a mass eviction on Monday of hundreds of undocumented sub-Saharan African immigrants from the improvised camps they occupied in the south of the country. The evictions from the camps in the city of Sfax continues what observers have called a campaign of repression by Tunisian authorities against the migrants. Authorities dispersed the migrants into small groups and forced them to seek shelter in small rural towns, according to statements by local activists. Tunisia has been the scene of a rising number of racist attacks on migrants since last February when President Kais Saied accused undocumented immigrants of causing a wave of crime and of wanting to change the Arab ethnic identity of Tunisia.
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/tunisian-authorities-evict-sub-saharan-undocumented-migrants

Iraq says it removed Iranian Kurdish groups from eastern border
The statement said the groups had been moved to "a location far from the border", adding that "weapons were removed from these groups, as they are now considered refugees per the regulations of the Refugee Commission". There are four Iranian Kurdish parties based in northern Iraq that have been the main thorns in Tehran's side: the Kurdistan Freedom Party (PAK); the Free Life Party of Kurdistan (PJAK), a group affiliated with the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK); the left-wing Komala party; and the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan (PDK-I), who are ideologically aligned with the ruling Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) in Iraqi Kurdistan.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/iraq-iranian-kurdish-groups-border-removed

Germany bans neo-Nazi group with links to US, conducts raids in 10 German states
The Hammerskins Germany is an offshoot of the Hammerskins Nation founded in the United States in 1988, according to the interior ministry. It plays a prominent role in the right-wing extremist scene in Europe. Worldwide, members of this association refer to themselves as “brothers” practicing their subcultural way of life. The group also sees itself as the elite of the right-wing extremist skinhead scene, according to the ministry.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/germany-bans-neo-nazi-group-links-us-conducts-103300568

Engineering workers at a West Yorkshire factory launch strike over pay
ENGINEERING workers at a West Yorkshire factory launched strike action over pay today. The skilled workers, employed by Japanese-owned Denso Marston at the Shipley factory, near Bradford, manufactures air conditioning systems for motor vehicles. More than 150 workers walked out for 24 hours on Tuesday and are set to strike again tomorrow.
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/engineering-workers-at-a-west-yorkshire-factory-launch-strike-over-pay

Opposition accuse defence minister of “treason” for declassifying military plans from their time in power
Poland’s defence minister has published parts of a classified document he says shows that when the current main opposition, Civic Platform (PO), was in power it planned to give up half the country if Russia invaded. By contrast, the currently ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party will defend every inch of Poland, he says.
https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/09/18/opposition-accuse-defence-minister-of-treason-for-declassifying-military-plans-from-their-time-in-power/

Colombia to Hold a Hearing on 296 Extrajudicial Murders
On Monday and Tuesday, the Special Jurisdiction for Peace of Colombia (JEP) will hold a hearing for former members of the Army's 16th Brigade who will admit their participation in 296 cases of murders of civilians ("false positives") that occurred between 2005 and 2008 in the department of Casanare.
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Colombia-to-Hold-a-Hearing-on-296-Extrajudicial-Murders-20230918-0001.html

Brazil's Lula warns United Nations of coup risk in Guatemala
Brazil's President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva warned world leaders at the United Nations on Tuesday of the prospect of a coup in Guatemala, echoing U.S. concerns about risks to democracy in the Central American country after last month's election."In Guatemala, there is a risk of a coup, which would impede the inauguration of the winner of democratic elections," Lula told the U.N. General Assembly.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazils-lula-warns-united-nations-coup-risk-guatemala-2023-09-19/

‘Credible evidence’ India behind alleged assassination of Sikh leader, says Trudeau
The Canadian prime minister told the House of Commons of Canada on Monday that, in recent weeks, national security authorities had been probing allegations that New Delhi was behind a state-sponsored assassination. “Any involvement of a foreign government in the killing of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil is an unacceptable violation of our sovereignty,” he said. “Canada is a rule-of-law country, the protection of our citizens and defence of our sovereignty are fundamental.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/18/credible-evidence-india-behind-killing-of-canadian-sikh-leader-says-trudeau
>>

 No.474271

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United Auto Workers threaten to expand targeted strike if there is no substantive progress by Friday
In a video statement late Monday, UAW President Shawn Fain said workers at more factories will join those who are now in the fifth day of a strike at three plants. “We’re not going to keep waiting around forever while they drag this out … and we’re not messing around,” Fain said in announcing the noon Eastern time Friday deadline for escalating the strike unless there is “serious progress” in the talks.
https://apnews.com/article/strike-auto-workers-ford-gm-stellantis-f948704cce3d6dc9ca484142c5d0d98e

US homeland security reverses support for Ice detainee’s sexual assault claims
Reviewed by the Guardian, the report’s reversal means Domingo can no longer qualify for a U-visa. The U nonimmigrant status allows victims of sex crimes or any crime that leads to mental and psychological suffering or abuse to remain in the US. “I wish someone would come and explain to me why they no longer find my allegations to be substantiated,” the 25-year-old said. “No one has explained to me why the sudden change in their decision … I feel lost in the process; I am extremely anxious, and I just want the opportunity to fairly fight for my case. I can’t even sleep without the medications they are giving me because I am depressed, anxious and scared.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/19/homeland-security-ice-rescind-assault-claims-u-visa

Bodycam video shows Alabama high school band director being tased, arrested after refusing to end performance
A high school band director in Alabama was shocked with a taser and arrested when he refused to direct his students to stop playing music after a football game last week, authorities said. The band director, Johnny Mims, has retained a legal team that is pledging to take action against the Birmingham Police Department, which released body camera footage of the incident on Tuesday.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alabama-band-director-johnny-mims-minor-high-school-tased-arrested-refusing-to-end-performance-bodycam-video-police/

Overhaul of Ohio’s K-12 education system is unconstitutional, new lawsuit says
Through changes included in the latest state budget, oversight of Ohio’s education department will shift later this year to a director appointed by the governor, instead of the State Board of Education and the superintendent it elects. As part of that process, many of the board’s other powers will be transferred to the new director and the department will be renamed the Department of Education and Workforce.
https://apnews.com/article/ohio-education-bill-state-board-lawsuit-5bbe221b48a87c06b48abb4aa7400c33
>>

 No.474272

CP of Greece, Strike call against the anti-labour steamroller - Condemnation of the crime against the people of Thessaly
On Friday 15/09/23, the workers and the youth demonstrated in a mass protest in Syntagma square, determined not to allow their working and living conditions to be crushed under the iron heel of the laws of profit and exploitation. The protest, organized by trade unions and mass organizations, turned into a call for a strike against the government’s anti-labour steamroller and into a condemnation of the recent crime against the people of Thessaly.
http://www.solidnet.org/article/CP-of-Greece-Strike-call-against-the-anti-labour-steamroller-Condemnation-of-the-crime-against-the-people-of-Thessaly/

Boycott bill: Britain's political gift to Netanyahu
This week British Foreign Secretary James Cleverly will receive a hero’s welcome from Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as he visits Israel on a mission to build trade links. But the truth is that the British government has already given Netanyahu everything he could possibly want. And more. Consider the 2030 roadmap for UK-Israel bilateral relations, which ignored the occupation and defined Israel as a "thriving" democracy, signed by Cleverly before Netanyahu’s visit to London last March. And now we have the abominably named Economic Activity of Public Bodies (Overseas Matters) Bill, which entered its committee stage in the Commons last week. It delivers on a central objective of Netanyahu’s foreign policy - protecting Israel against the threat of international isolation by blocking public bodies from supporting sanctions, boycotts and divestment campaigns against Israel. Most unusually, the bill singles out Israel, the Occupied West Bank and the Golan Heights for special protection. It thus puts not just Israel, but also the occupied Palestinian territories and the occupied Golan Heights out of reach of the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement. And not just that. By conflating Israel with the territories it has occupied by military force, the bill flatly contradicts existing British foreign policy commitments.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-britain-boycott-bill-political-gift-netanyahu

Tony Cliff: Roots of Israel’s violence
The Israeli state is engaged in brutal violence against the Palestinian population and has killed hundreds of Palestinians over the past few months. In 1982 revolutionary socialist Tony Cliff, who died a year ago this month, wrote this explanation of why Israel acts in this way. He was writing just after Israel had invaded Lebanon and carried out massacres of both Lebanese and refugee Palestinians. Looking back on my own experience in Palestine I can see how today’s horror grew from small beginnings. Zionism, Jewish separateness and the belief in a Jewish homeland, have developed into state violence. My parents were pioneering Zionists, leaving Russia for Palestine in 1902 to join a total Zionist population of a few thousand. I grew up a Zionist, but Zionism didn’t have the ugly face we see today. However, there was always a fundamental crack between the Zionists and the Arabs. This same crack split Zionists from ordinary people in their countries of origin. If you look to 19th century Russia it’s clear. In 1891 Tsar Alexander II was assassinated. The next year Russia’s extreme right organised a pogrom against the Jews. “Kill a Jew and save Russia,” they said. Socialists reacted by calling for unity in fighting Tsarism and the right. But there was a second reaction-Zionism. The Zionists argued, “Jews can’t rely on anyone but ourselves,” and the first of them left Russia for Palestine. Each further pogrom produced the same two reactions. Some joined the general revolutionary movement – others chose separation. When the Zionists came to Palestine they continued to emphasise their separateness. Zionists took over Arab land, often evicting the occupiers. And the Zionists systematically discriminated against the thousands of Arab unemployed. Although Arabs were at least 80 percent of the population, not one came to my school. My parents were extreme Zionists, and my father told me, “The only way to look at an Arab is through the sight of a gun.” I never shared a house with an Arab. The Zionists organised their own trade union, the Histadrut, which raised two political funds. One was called “the defence of Hebrew Labour”, the other “the defence of Hebrew products”. These funds were used to organise pickets to prevent Arabs working in Jewish enterprises and to stop Arab produce coming into Jewish markets. They did nothing to damage Zionist businesses.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/cliff/works/1982/04/isrviol.htm
>>

 No.474273

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TYBNA

>>474271
I am waitin for my union to mention this. I wish unions wern't so fangless these days because a solidarity strike is totally in order here. I wounder what the strat will be for the UAW escalating the strike.
>>

 No.474274

Based News Anon!
>>

 No.474283

>>474273

I'm a fukken loser lol… so forgive my ignorance of how this stuff works - is it something you could bring up with your union yourself?
>>

 No.474333

>>474283
Yeah I am going to when I get the chance one of the major issues is that I never get to turn out to meetings cause I'm working all the time. We have things in the meetings that get democratically voted on but the old times who run everything basically treat it like a joke I hate them.
>>

 No.474352

>>474272
>Boycott bill:
>Most unusually, the bill singles out Israel, the Occupied West Bank and the Golan Heights for special protection. It thus puts not just Israel, but also the occupied Palestinian territories and the occupied Golan Heights out of reach of the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement.

BDS is hardly a radical organization, and they're not actually intending to isolate Isreal from trade. Their calls for boycott and divestment has always just been a way to talk about the crimes of zionism. It's like thoughts and prayers adapted for market commodity logic. If you don't buy products made in Israel, somebody else will. Tho economically ineffective, it's always been a great way to make people take note of all the fucked up shit that went on.

The question is why the UK is doing these special treatment laws for Israel, what do they get out of this ?
>>

 No.474364

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File: 1695324584255-1.jpg ( 542.96 KB , 1080x1766 , Screenshot_2023-09-22-02-2….jpg )

W
>>

 No.474370

>>474364
that bitch is a sub 80 autism score populist retard

it's never a good idea to impose price controls in a capitalist economy if you're not ready to go all the way with central planning

stupid leftoid cunt
>>

 No.474371

>>474370
What are you some kind of pol fag?
Price controls are actually pretty based when they are actually needed like rent ceilings. None of the arguments against them even make anysense. Basically what you are saying is that people should just suffer more under capitalism because….?
>>

 No.474372

>>474352

The UK has whatever the UK equivalent of the US Israel lobby is, so probably bribes.
It's a very corrupt system.
>>

 No.474373

>>474370
Idk what her opinions on other stuff are, but price controls can actually be good. Even the US uses some price controls in the form of price gouging laws. It's possible to overdo it, but it's also possible to overlook opportunistic price inflation to a fault and let it get out of control.
>>

 No.474375

>>474371
>Basically what you are saying
Basically what I'm saying is that you're a fucking retard.

Price controls are about prices of goods, not about rents. By this logic fucking minimum wage is an example of price controls you absolute fucking leftoid idiot.

If your lil bitch leftoid ass is sticking with the market economy THEN SHUT THE FUCK UP AND PLAY BY THE MARKET RULES. Fucking stupid leftoids think they can ignore fucking law of the proportional labor costs.
>>

 No.474377

>>474375
Lol, rent is a commodity? That is a good and service my guy. You need to study econ 101.

>Play by the le heckin rules brah!

Rules are not objective and we create the rules and we can choose to remend them or create new ones.
The government should work in the interests of the working class, which, under capitalism is nay impossible, but, none the less, go fuck yourself moron, the rules don't exist. there are no rules.

>law of proportional labor costs

You mean overhead? Arguably if you want to go this route considering how astronomically high inflation currently is this will be a good thing because price controls well roll back the market and bring down basic costs of living.
How hard you are seething though is really amazing. Prehaps twitter is more your speed?
>>

 No.474378

>>474373
>price controls can actually be good
Only if you're dealing with the speculative market.

Prices need to reflect SNLT, otherwise your economy shits the bed. So you either need competitive market prices or centrally calculated prices. When the price controls interfere with the competitive pricing mechanism (majority of cases) - they are BAD. And your economy SHITS THE BED (hello Vuvuzela).
>>

 No.474379

>>474372
Bribery can't be all of it, can it ?
Could the Russians use bribes to end the sanctions ?
Could the Chinese use bribes to end saber-rattling and provocations ?
>>

 No.474380

>>474377
>rent is a commodity?
>Rules are not objective and we create the rules
peak leftoid

>You mean overhead?
no, I mean the law of proportional labor costs, aka law of value, leftoid

>Arguably if you want to go this route considering how astronomically high inflation currently is this will be a good thing because price controls well roll back the market and bring down basic costs of living.
no, price controls will lead to prices decoupling from the SNLT which would only result in shortages and shit
>>

 No.474382

>>474380
Under capitalism rent literally is a commodty cope
Prove me wrong.

>no, I mean the law of proportional labor costs, aka law of value, leftoid

the law of value has nothing to do with that at all, but, ok whatever I suppose.

>no, price controls will lead to prices decoupling from the SNLT which would only result in shortages and shit

Or it will just change the socially necessary labor time.
>>

 No.474384

>>474382
>Under capitalism rent literally is a commodty cope
Under capitalism rent is a part of the surplus value appropriated by rentier capitalists retard.

>the law of value has nothing to do with that at all
the law of value is literally about prices leftoid

>Or it will just change the socially necessary labor time.
lol, how?

to change SNLT you need new investments into new means of production idiot
>>

 No.474386

>>474382
read what Marx writes about rent,
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/rent.htm

Caveat: Marx predicts
<The final consequence is thus the abolition of the distinction between capitalist and landowner, so that there remain altogether only two classes of the population – the working class and the class of capitalists. This huckstering with landed property, the of landed property into a commodity, constitutes the final overthrow of the old and the final establishment of the money aristocracy.
Neo-liberalism kinda turned the clock back on this. Marx living the 1800s couldn't have predicted neo-liberal industrial offshoring, and that in the face of de-industrialization, the money aristocracy would try to imitate some of the feudal rent relations.

Otherwise the text is ok, it's specifically about agricultural land owners but it's probably applicable to other types of rent extraction too.
>>

 No.474390

>>474384
>>474384
No not necessarily

You can also change the SNLT by screwing with the price of commodities. If inflation makes hot dogs cost 12 dollars to make now instead of 8 then the difference will be produced in the SNLT. In the same manner if you force prices to stagnant then that will alter the SNLT. SNLT exists in relationship to other commodities and industries. But you cl well know everything so go on.
>>

 No.474391

>>474390
Changing prices doesn't changes socially necessary labor time.

You can calculate SNLT, it#s roughly the average time a society needs to produce a product. It depends on various factors like the level of technical development of the productive forces. (So having more advanced machines means that workers can have higher productivity and SNLT goes down). The skill of the workers also matters, investing in labor up-skilling also reduces SNLT.
>>

 No.474397

>>474391
Changing anything in the economy effects another section of the economy. Fucking with prices will change the SNLT because you are effectively changing the amount of time it takes for labor to produce a specific commodity or good. This shit is actually pretty fundemental. It costs more overhead to put in therefore either more labor and thus time is required to produce something, or, intensity of labor can go up.

Alternatively automation also can compensate for this, or, innovation.
>>

 No.474400

>>474397
how does "Fucking with prices" change the amount of time it takes for labor to produce a specific commodity or good ?
That makes no sense, completing a task takes as long as it takes, given a level of skill and technological means at your disposal. And don't give me that "everything is connected" slogan, that doesn't explain anything.
>>

 No.474413

>>474400
>>474400
What do you mean? If you have to pay more for something you have to put more in return to achieve a profit. There's millions of bullshit jobs out there that can take any amount of time they want for you to complete. Ow roekd in a bullet factory and when prices were really high on our products they expected us to produce more and faster. Paper production is the same way you can increase or decrease the amount of timenit takes to make product. Right now we have been running much faster then we normally have in the past to push as much product out so we can get as much profit as possible.

It's really fundementalnto not only economics but what Marx was speaking on.
>>

 No.474415

>>474378
>Prices need to reflect SNLT, otherwise your economy shits the bed.
Yeah, but inflation doesn't necessarily reflect that.
>>

 No.474416

>>474379
If the US and Russia were already on good terms for a long time, then probably, yes. Like China hasn't sanctioned Russia over their huge "this land is ours by birthright" invasion, either.
>>

 No.474417

>>474413
>Ow roekd in a bullet factory and when prices were really high on our products they expected us to produce more and faster. Paper production is the same way you can increase or decrease the amount of timenit takes to make product.

That's actually really interesting. Do they hire more people for this or pay existing workers more?
>>

 No.474421

>>474390
>You can also change the SNLT by screwing with the price of commodities.
nah, retard

>If inflation makes hot dogs cost 12 dollars to make now instead of 8 then the difference will be produced in the SNLT.
cost-push inflation is literally the result of rising SNLT

otherwise you just have hyperinflation

>the difference will be produced in the SNLT
you fucking illiterate dumbfuck, this sentence DOESN'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE

>In the same manner if you force prices to stagnant then that will alter the SNLT.
nah, that will just force your economy to collapse

>SNLT exists in relationship to other commodities and industries.
YOU DUMBFUCK THERE IS CAUSALITY

firms make production plans ACCORDING TO COMPETITIVELY SET PRICES, the balancing of the whole economy is achieved by these competitively set prices that reflect SNLT

IF YOUR PRICES DON'T REFLECT OBJECTIVE SNLT THEN YOUR FUCKING ECONOMY JUST GETS DISBALANCED AND YOUR INDUSTRIES COLLAPSE IN A CHAIN REACTION IN THE WORST CASE SCENARIO.

YOU FUCKING RETARD.
>>

 No.474422

>>474397
>Changing anything in the economy effects another section of the economy.
philosophycel meaningless wanking

>Fucking with prices will change the SNLT because you are effectively changing the amount of time it takes for labor to produce a specific commodity or good.
You don't change anything in the production process dumbfuck, so you don't change SNLT.

You just disbalance the fucking economy and then blame "saboteurs" for your fuck-ups as a retarded leftoid you are.

>It costs more overhead to put in therefore either more labor and thus time is required to produce something, or, intensity of labor can go up.
what "overhead"? WHAT IN THE ABSOLUTE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT YOU DUMBFUCK?

>Alternatively automation also can compensate for this, or, innovation.
Which require massive investment plans, which are made by private firms according to the profit maximization principle, which is dependent, you guessed it dumbfuck, on your prices that don't reflect SNLT lol
>>

 No.474423

>>474421
>IF YOUR PRICES DON'T REFLECT OBJECTIVE SNLT THEN YOUR FUCKING ECONOMY JUST GETS DISBALANCED AND YOUR INDUSTRIES COLLAPSE IN A CHAIN REACTION IN THE WORST CASE SCENARIO.

I'm not that anon, but this just comes across as naive, though. Prices should reflect SNLT, but it doesn't mean they always do - I don't know specifically how much competition there is in Belarusian production and distribution of goods, but if there is very little competition then it is possible that monopolies could inflate the prices of necessary goods beyond what would be a reasonable reflection of production costs. This is a thing that happens, and price controls are a way to address it.
>>

 No.474424

>>474397
>Alternatively automation also can compensate for this, or, innovation.
So you either state plan investments into the new MOP to affect the SNLT directly, or you SHUT THE FUCK UP.

You can't change the SNLT by monetary policy.
>>

 No.474425

>>474417
Yeah they would outsource certain labor to temp positions and when shit started getting cheaper they would lay off the temps. That was at the bullet factory. The paper mill is a bit different. Right now because of inflation they have a back log of product so we are shutting down the machines arbitrarily to try and keep our prices high to milk the inflation rate as it slows.


>nah, retard
>I'm right cause I'm right
I've heard this before.


>cost-push inflation is literally the result of rising SNLT

Whatbi am saying is that because prices rise at market this causes SNLT to rise. You realize neither one of these things are a necessary begging from the other right but that both of these things effect each other in tandem.


>you fucking illiterate dumbfuck, this sentence DOESN'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE

You're a really insecure person aren't you? Lol. How does that not make sense? If prices rise it means that it takes more labor to generate higher returns in investment. It's not rocket science.


>nah, that will just force your economy to collapse
(source his own ass)


>firms make production plans ACCORDING TO COMPETITIVELY SET PRICES, the balancing of the whole economy is achieved by these competitively set prices that reflect SNLT


Sure if we lived in our perfect utopian vision of communism then I can agree but we don't.

>You don't change anything in the production process dumbfuck, so you don't change SNLT.

Yes you do thoughm you change the amount of labor and or the intensity of labor and that alters the SNLT. Marx literally talks about this in capital.

>Which require massive investment plans, which are made by private firms according to the profit maximization principle, which is dependent, you guessed it dumbfuck, on your prices that don't reflect SNLT lol

Sure it's dependent on that in abstract terms but if you think that investment bankers are calculating the SNLT in the price cost calculations you're delusional. They go off market trends and how much overhead it again takes to invest in innovation.
E.G Labor.
>>

 No.474426

>>474423
>Prices should reflect SNLT, but it doesn't mean they always do
prices SHOULD oscillate around SNLT

>if there is very little competition then it is possible that monopolies could inflate the prices of necessary goods beyond what would be a reasonable reflection of production costs.
and that's a bad thing

and that's why even the bourgeois state itself tries to prevent monopolization

>This is a thing that happens, and price controls are a way to address it.
I agree, that in a situation where the prices are already decoupled from the SNLT price controls can be beneficial. In a speculative market price controls are necessary for example.
>>

 No.474427

>>474423

Marx also talks about this in capital as well.
He doesn't complete this of because he died before he could complete his theory in it but it's fictitious capital.
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 No.474428

>>474426
>He thinks we don't currently live in a speculative market environment.
>>

 No.474429

>>474425
>Yeah they would outsource certain labor to temp positions and when shit started getting cheaper they would lay off the temps. That was at the bullet factory. The paper mill is a bit different. Right now because of inflation they have a back log of product so we are shutting down the machines arbitrarily to try and keep our prices high to milk the inflation rate as it slows.

Interesting.
>>

 No.474430

>>474425
>Whatbi am saying is that because prices rise at market this causes SNLT to rise. You realize neither one of these things are a necessary begging from the other right but that both of these things effect each other in tandem.

This is a weird question, but wouldn't it be high sales causing the company both to ramp up production and raise prices? It seems like the cause for both high prices and high production rates would be high demand.
>>

 No.474431

>>474426

Ah, fair.
(flood detected, adding more text)
>>

 No.474432

>>474425
>You're a really insecure person aren't you? Lol. How does that not make sense? If prices rise it means that it takes more labor to generate higher returns in investment. It's not rocket science.

Oh! Ok, I was misreading you (I'm not the guy you're replying to here, but I'm the anon who asked the "weird question"), it seems like. I should have read your whole post before I replied in >>474430
. ;P

So you're saying the prices on materials to make bullets with rose (and cost of living in general was inflated?), and so to make up for that cost, workers were pushed to produce more bullets for less money overall? Am I getting that right?
>>

 No.474434

>>474425
you illiterate fuck, can you speak proper english?

>Whatbi am saying is that because prices rise at market this causes SNLT to rise.
I guess you're trying to say that inflation increases the costs of the reproduction of labor power and therefore increases SNLT?

To which I would answer, dumbfuck, that wages don't keep up with inflation lol.

>If prices rise it means that it takes more labor to generate higher returns in investment.
It means that if prices rise in a competitive market.

Again, I don't see how this is relevant to your point lol. PRICES RISE AS A RESULT OF THE HIGHER LABOR COSTS, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND KEK.

>(source his own ass)
source is the Soviet collapse dumbfuck

>Sure if we lived in our perfect utopian vision of communism then I can agree but we don't.
So you're one of those dumbfucks that deny there is competition in oligopolic markets?

>Yes you do thoughm you change the amount of labor and or the intensity of labor and that alters the SNLT.
How do you change amount of labor required without you going on the market and competing with capitalists dubmfuck lol?

>Sure it's dependent on that in abstract terms
What abstract terms lol? Individual firms take CONCRETE prices to calculate their expected profits lol.

>if you think that investment bankers are calculating the SNLT in the price cost calculations you're delusional
YOU ABSOLUTE DUMBFUCK

in a competitive market CONCRETE prices AUTOMATICALLY REFLECT THE SNLT you fucking theorylet

>They go off market trends and how much overhead it again takes to invest in innovation.
WHY ARE YOU USING THE WORD "OVERHEAD"?

THAT'S NOT HOW THIS WORD IS USED YOU ILLITERATE DUMBFUCK
>>

 No.474435

>>474428
>He thinks economy could reproduce in a speculative market environment.
Industrial and service sector is not speculative. It has competition with relatively stable prices. Eat shit.
>>

 No.474436

>>474435
Industry and agriculture are basically dead and automated. Most of the economy is service and out right finance. Another pretty basic contradiction of capitalism pointed out by Marx.
I'll return to the rest of the sperg out when I get home.
>>

 No.474437

>>474436
>Industry and agriculture are basically dead and automated.

I don't agree with the anon you're replying to, but this just isn't true. Despite huge strides in automation, agriculture and industry are still huge, and in some ways not that advanced, as the first world often still utilizes foreign labor which sometimes still incorporates slavery and child labor. It takes a lot of people to mine ore, harvest crops, assemble in factories, etc. Even where the machines perform most of the work efficiently enough to replace remaining human workforces, people then have to repair those machines and make sure they're operational and clean enough. Financialization didn't eradicate industrial or agricultural labor, it only obfuscated it.
>>

 No.474438

>>474437
Yes ofc you're right. They are still a thing and do still exist but to the degree that they have sway over the economic conditions of our time is questionable. This is noticable in the sheer powerlessness held by the working class in many first world countries. Before industry was shipped over seas huge powerful strikes were pretty common place but now even to their credit unions are largely organized around service industry jobs and the thing about service is it's the bottom of the economic hierarchy. The nature of the work itself makes the labor easily replaceable and expendable. Walmart has the power to simply close up shop at the meter threat of Union activity. This is largely due to the fact that production is the most powerful element of the economy and that has been eroded over time and replaced with service and finance which are easily replaceable.
>>

 No.474440

>>474413
>There's millions of bullshit jobs
ok if a job is bullshit it might not be possible to calculate a SNLT, but then you have to ask why one wouldn't give people jobs where they perform useful tasks instead.

>when prices were really high on our products they expected us to produce more and faster
>you can increase or decrease the amount of time it takes to make product.
you average out all the fluctuations for SNLT calculations.
>>

 No.474441

>>474438

It's down mostly to union busting and neoliberal policies. In an economy where a certain amount of unemployment was not portrayed as desirable, and where keeping domestic production up was seen as more valuable than lowering costs of production (with lower labor foreign standards), service workers would not be so easy to replace - in fact, we're slowly seeing it change so that service workers in some regions have a little bit more leverage because it is becoming more difficult to find people to fill those positions for such low pay. Decisions were made at the political level to limit worker power and remove checks on corporate power.
>>

 No.474447

>>474441
No I disagree with thism this is an idealistic take. First and foremost the mechanism of capitalism will always trend towards the maximization of profits. This is why capitalists lobbies the government for the last70 years in order to ship jobs over seas and bust unions in the first place. That is why labor has been sent over seas and automated in the first place. And sure service workers can deff be organized and increase the value of their labor through collective bargaining but at the end of the day it doesn't take any real skill to put boxes on a shelf. Fast for work I can agree is slightly more skilled but even still. At the end of the day there's billions of hungry wanting people waiting to take your place. The service Industry is and will always be the weakest rung of the economy and they know this this is why they have gutted agriculture through technology and decimated industry through exporting it over seas.
>>

 No.474463

>>474447
I'm sorry I'm typing like a fucking retard too.
I'm at work still so I can only use my fuckin phone.

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