/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

I work in a mill and I will say that the wages they are receiving are bullshit in comparison to what we make and it's ridiculous that people and the CEOs themselves are so deluded that they think they cannot pay these people upwards of 20 even 25 dollars an hour.

When did this site die and where did it go? This strike, even covered by msm, has one reply when a thread on virology as an entire discipline being a lie has over 100.

>>475085
Solidarity with the striking workers.

pls don't derail with your virology rants

>>475086
>Solidarity with the striking workers.
excellent, it would be great to see that here

>pls don't derail with your virology rants
next is flat earth spamming I guess, seeing this successfully spread is disheartening, even if it were accurate, actual irl demonstrations should take precedence for posts and supporting organizing

>>474530
>united auto workers strike.
could spark off many other strikes. A bridge between the writers strike in Hollywood and the working class people in many industries that are abused.

>>475087
How the fuck do I get the USW to at least acknowledge the strike. Taft heartly makes solidarity strikes illegal.

>>475089
>Taft heartly
By the time workers are organized enough to violate these types of unjust laws, they're already a power to be reckoned with. Enforcement against an organized proletariat would just cause an escalation of what it attempts to prevent. The purpose of these is to snuff out the inexperienced badly-organized early stages of labor-movements, that try to act beyond their capacities.

>>475092
That isn't necessarily true because these laws themselves are largely responsible for breaking up mass organized labor in the first place.

>>475108
maybe it's the other way around, they broke the power of mass organized labor, and then they made those laws.

>>475086
>Solidarity with the striking workers.
As the number of NEET threads should indicate most marxists are not workers. Marx himself wasn't even a worker.

>>474530
>Currently the UAW is strike because of the greed of their cooperate overlords
Car companies are getting rekt because governments are forcing them to produce EVs that are massively expensive to make and nobody is buying. That's not the fault of assembly line workers but also you can't just cry for more money when the company is on the brink of collapse. The money has to come from somewhere.

>>475112
Except it isn't, study some history friend.

>>475197
This is bulshit marx literally was a publisher. Not that that even matters because that isn't what he ment by "working class"

>>475197
>Brinkl of collapse

YEs that's why the ceos gave them selves millions of dollars in bonuses in 29022 yes. Brink of collapse, holy shit lmao.

>>475200
>Not that that even matters because that isn't what he ment by "working class"
What did he mean?

>>475201
>that's why the ceos gave them selves millions of dollars in bonuses in 29022 yes
Is that something that actually happened or something you assume happened?

>Brink of collapse, holy shit lmao.
Two things can be true at the same time. The western auto industry can be a zombie and CEOs could be looting the corpse.

>>475202
Karl Marx defines the working class as "Those with nothing to sell but their labor power."

Thus, He was working class, even criminals are working class. They have nothing to sell or exchange but their own labor power.

>Is that something that actually happened or something you assume happened?

No this actually did happen my jo is actually experiencing the same bullshit.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/09/gms-mary-barra-3rd-highest-paid-automotive-ceo-in-2022/

>Two things can be true at the same time. The western auto industry can be a zombie and CEOs could be looting the corpse.

The western auto industry is fine. Every company on earth is moving, at least, aesthetically, to more "green" climate friendly production, which, is a net positive. You really need to stop drinking the republican kool-aid.
This is normal behavor for any company. Any time the workers get slightly organized or any contract negotiations are up they cry and whine about "OH WE SIMPLY CAN'T AFFORD THAT" and then you turn around and the ceos are giving them selves 4 millon dollar bonuses in stock options.

>>475203
>Karl Marx defines the working class as "Those with nothing to sell but their labor power."
In that case nobody is working class because your auto-enrolled pension fund is earning interest on the stock market and that's not the product of your labor. Damn, the porkies wiped out the working class and you didn't even notice.

>No this actually did happen
<Barra's base salary of $2.1 million in 2021 stayed the same in 2022.
With double digit inflation that is actually a pay cut.
<Barra's stock awards were $14.62 million, up from $14.58 million.
Stock is not cash, there are restrictions and timelines on how/when it can actually be sold.
<When evaluating Barra's bonus, a compensation committee considered how she led the company to record adjusted earnings before taxes in 2022 of $14.5 billon
You have to remember the value of money is collapsing because of inflation so "record profits" doesn't actually mean they did better than last year. That is a common trick the media is playing to redirect your anger away from the banks.

>The western auto industry is fine.
<Ford Motor Co. posted a $2 billion net loss for the year
Ford at least is getting rekt because nobody with a brain wants an electric truck.

>Every company on earth is moving, at least, aesthetically, to more "green" climate friendly production
EVs are not at all environmentally friendly, they devastate the landscape to extract rare earth metals to put into batteries which get tossed on the scrapheap after less than 5 years of use.

>You really need to stop drinking the republican kool-aid.
Why is it so hard to explain to leftists that the billionaires you hate so much own all the mainstream media and fund all the thinktanks. 99% of scientists agree because 99% of scientists get their funding from the same group of corporations. You want to eat the rich all you eat is their propaganda.

>>475204
>In that case nobody is working class because your auto-enrolled pension fund is earning interest on the stock market and that's not the product of your labor. Damn, the porkies wiped out the working class and you didn't even notice.

Another lame brained take; Even people with retirement accounts stil have nothing to sell but their labor. They aren't exchanging capital to accumulate more capital en mass. Another point which marx discusses in his magnum opius, but, I guess you didn't get the memo, or, probably don't even care.

>With double digit inflation that is actually a pay cut.

Actually no it isn't because equities don't aren't currency, kek. Also further more
<achually the ceo only made 2.1 million in bonuses for the year of 2022
Give me a break what an absolute cuck. We can actually go over the balance sheets of these companies if you want.

Never mind the workers who actually do the work of producing useful commodities for society.

>EVs are not at all environmentally friendly, they devastate the landscape to extract rare earth metals to put into batteries which get tossed on the scrapheap after less than 5 years of use.

The idea is not to produce a perfectly envriomentally friendly product, but, to bring carbon emissions down to neutrality.

>Why is it so hard to explain to leftists that the billionaires you hate so much own all the mainstream media and fund all the thinktanks. 99% of scientists agree because 99% of scientists get their funding from the same group of corporations. You want to eat the rich all you eat is their propaganda.

Why is it so hard to explain to right wing retards that this has absolutely nothing to do with anything and no one on the left gives a shit about liberal thinks tanks including your "right wing liberal" funded think tank groups like citizen united. Do you seriously think voti9ng for a fag like trump is some how outside the matrix? You're dumber than I thought. The whole circus is one big parade called neoliberalism.

>>475206
>Even people with retirement accounts stil have nothing to sell but their labor.
You said working class means someone who has no capital except their own body. But retirement accounts accruing interest are a perfect example of money making money. If they are still working class then your definition is either wrong or incomplete.

>Another point which marx discusses in his magnum opius, but, I guess you didn't get the memo, or, probably don't even care.
The problem is that two people can read the same bible and still disagree on what the prophet ""really"" meant.

>Actually no it isn't because equities don't aren't currency, kek.
<Barra's base salary of $2.1 million in 2021 stayed the same in 2022.
<salary
It seems like you're getting agitated, maybe take a break and calm down.

>Never mind the workers who actually do the work of producing useful commodities for society.
There is nothing stopping you from tipping your barista $20 the next time you're in starbucks. If you really think their labor is worth that much. You know, live your own principles and so forth.

>The idea is not to produce a perfectly envriomentally friendly product, but, to bring carbon emissions down to neutrality.
Except "carbon" emissions are not a problem and EVs are objectively worse for the environment. And the fact that all the greedy psychopathic billionaires are pushing so hard for EVs should give you doubt not encouragement.

>no one on the left gives a shit about liberal thinks tanks
You're the one who is getting all your global warming opinions and talking points from the mainstream media like reddit. Billionaires own the mainstream media. This isn't rocket science.

>Do you seriously think voti9ng for a fag like trump is some how outside the matrix? You're dumber than I thought.
There is no need for personal attacks especially when you're just shooting in the dark. The world is a bit more complicated than you vs trumpers.

>>475207
>You said working class means someone who has no capital except their own body. But retirement accounts accruing interest are a perfect example of money making money. If they are still working class then your definition is either wrong or incomplete.

No that isn't what I said, I don't know why you are lying I said, literally, "The working class is someone with nothing to sell but their own labor power.
Boomers living in retirement do not exchange capital at market to survive. Cope you have no idea what you are talking about.

>The problem is that two people can read the same bible and still disagree on what the prophet ""really"" meant.

<uhhhh, uhhh, I have no idea what I am talking about so you…you…your a cultist or something!

fart noises

>It seems like you're getting agitated, maybe take a break and calm down.
Projecting

>There is nothing stopping you from tipping your barista $20 the next time you're in starbucks. If you really think their labor is worth that much. You know, live your own principles and so forth.
I do tip every time I go anywhere.
This has nothing to do with the UAW and the fact that corperations have no right to exploit the labor of the working class.

>You're the one who is getting all your global warming opinions and talking points from the mainstream media like reddit. Billionaires own the mainstream media. This isn't rocket science.

No I get my global warming information from scientific fact and decades of climate data that has been per reviewed by climate scientists, but, keep coping and trying to say fox news is a valid source of information.

>There is no need for personal attacks especially when you're just shooting in the dark. The world is a bit more complicated than you vs trumpers.

Fag

>>475208
>I said, literally, "The working class is someone with nothing to sell but their own labor power.
If I had to put that in my own words I would say that sounds like a "person who has no capital except their body". How is that incorrect? Or is the reason you insist on a literal quotation because you are not able to reason about the meaning behind the words?

>Boomers living in retirement do not exchange capital at market to survive.
You said they have nothing to sell but their own labor power. But they have a retirement account accruing decades of interest. So have you changed the definition of working class or are you just pretending that the inconsistency doesn't exist?

>Projecting
Dude you mixed up two different quotes and then half your response was gibberish. What is "don't aren't currency, kek" supposed to mean? It was a polite invitation for you to try to make your point again with the correct information. Or maybe you just want to gloss over it because you never had a point to begin with.

>the fact that corperations have no right to exploit the labor of the working class.
We can jump to a new topic if you want but you will need to define what you mean by "exploit" first.

>I get my global warming information from climate scientists
Who are all funded by billionaires.

>fart noises
>Fag
The sad thing is you're the smartest marxist I've interacted with in a while. I honestly pity you.

>>475210
>If I had to put that in my own words I would say that sounds like a "person who has no capital except their body". How is that incorrect? Or is the reason you insist on a literal quotation because you are not able to reason about the meaning behind the words?

That isn't the same thing because labor power is not capital. They are two very obviously different things.
It can be capital, but, capital is not the same inherently as labor power. That is like saying money = capital.

You're grasping at some serious straws with this one.

>You said they have nothing to sell but their own labor power. But they have a retirement account accruing decades of interest. So have you changed the definition of working class or are you just pretending that the inconsistency doesn't exist?

They are not selling that retirement account or interest to survive ffs, lmao. What do you not understand about the exchange of capital being neccesary to be a capitalist? What do you think capital is exactly?

>Who are all funded by billionaires.

Proof?

>The sad thing is you're the smartest marxist I've interacted with in a while. I honestly pity you.

Yeah I will let you know when I give a shit.

>>475213
>That isn't the same thing because labor power is not capital.
Is that the confusion. Capital is something that is used in the production of a final product. So machinery on a factory floor is capital. A hammer is capital. And yes, your muscles and brain are capital. And like all capital, some people have more than others.

>They are two very obviously different things
The only obvious difference is that brain and muscles can't be alienated from a person. Even in the case of slavery, the master cannot take direct control of the slaves arms.

>They are not selling that retirement account or interest to survive ffs, lmao
First of all yes if they are retired then they are partially living from that interest. That's what being retired means.
But more importantly you said
>Karl Marx defines the working class as "Those with nothing to sell but their labor power."
So which is it? They have nothing to sell or they have it but won't sell it?

>Proof?
They are alive aren't they. So who is giving them money for food? Scientists don't have a tangible product to sell on the market. The only thing they have to sell is influence. The rich fund their "research" as long as the papers and conference talks confirm the opinions and myths the rich want to push out into wider society.

>>475221
No capital is something that is utilitzed in an exchange to produce more capital. It is a self reifying system.

Money is converted to Capital when it is utilized to purchase more capital to make more money to purchase more capital to get more money. Of course theoretically anything can be capital, but, in modern society this is usually money form and money preceeds any transaction.

M->C->M

>The only obvious difference is that brain and muscles can't be alienated from a person. Even in the case of slavery, the master cannot take direct control of the slaves arms.

I fail to see the relevance to the conversation with this? What is your point exactly? Labor is still not capital.

A person with nothing to sell but their labor power must sell that labor power to some one in exchange for money. On the other hand the capitalist purchases this labor with money to generate more capital. To the capitalist this looks like C->M->C

People who have retirment accounts are not capitalists. Maybe labor aristocracy but not capitalists.

>So which is it? They have nothing to sell or they have it but won't sell it?

Learn to read jesus fucking chirst.
The working class has nothing to sell but their labor power

>They are alive aren't they.

This is not proof. Show me verbaitum who these "scientists" are and how they are some how "controlled" by the spooky je….I mean billionaire thinktanks.

working class = ppl with work (other than agriculture, because it was always sort of gay)

>>475227
and gay for different reasons other than work

lorem ipsum
Et praesentium voluptas deserunt in dolorem sunt. Ut voluptates eum ipsam cupiditate molestiae libero dolor. Sit omnis dolores quia itaque fuga est perferendis. Soluta deleniti pariatur molestiae.

>>475224
>capital is something that is utilitzed in an exchange to produce more capital
Ok so in real economics a unit of exchange is called currency. I mean it doesn't matter if we have different words as long as we're talking about the same concepts.

>On the other hand the capitalist purchases this labor with money to generate more capital.
Working class sells labor for capital.
Capitalist buys labor and then sells the output for a profit.
(The implication being that capitalists don't do any labor in the process)
You said Marx was an editor.
An editor buys labor (in the form of words from authors) and then sells it for a profit.
=> Marx was a capitalist

>People who have retirment accounts are not capitalists.
So investment bankers are also not capitalists? You can't just make exceptions for people you like.

>Show me verbaitum who these "scientists" are and how they are some how "controlled"
You want me to explain to you how academic funding works? The scientists beg corporations and rich people for money. And in exchange the scientists publish papers that are positive or at least neutral to the donor's agendas. Otherwise there's no funding next time. Kind of like this watch?v=aKUUCuEbTEc but the donors are evil capitalists.

>spooky je…
Don't do it. I just came from /fascism/ and all they do is "muh jews muh jews muh jews" whenever they are backed into a corner. I like you my little tsundere commie bitch I want better for you.

>>475239
>Ok so in real economics a unit of exchange is called currency. I mean it doesn't matter if we have different words as long as we're talking about the same concepts.

No currency is just a medium of exchange that is different that how capital itself is defined.

>Working class sells labor for capital.

No the worker sells his labor FOR money. Money is not capital. This is literally taught even in the most basic econ 101 classes.

>Marx was a capitalist
No but who even gives a shit.

>So investment bankers are also not capitalists? You can't just make exceptions for people you like.

Where the fuck did bankers come from? You are a really dumb and confused person if you think the people working to retire and the bankers are the same people, kek. But none of that matters because: The working class has nothing to sell but their labor power.

>You want me to explain to you how academic funding works? The scientists beg corporations and rich people for money. And in exchange the scientists publish papers that are positive or at least neutral to the donor's agendas. Otherwise there's no funding next time. Kind of like this watch?v=aKUUCuEbTEc but the donors are evil capitalists.

What scientists and what corperations? What papers specifically are we talking about? Literally show me what the fuck you are talking about what is the matter are you just full of shit?

>I like you my little tsundere commie bitch I want better for you.

You need to learn to read and come back

>>475241
>No the worker sells his labor FOR money.
s/capital/money/ the argument still stands.

>No but who even gives a shit.
If you can't find the flaw in my logic then you have to accept it as true.

>Where the fuck did bankers come from?
<investment bankers live off interest from their money
<retired workers live off interest from their money
If you want to include one and exclude the other then you need a more nuanced definition of "working class".

>What scientists and what corperations?
All scientists and all corporation? What is your counter-hypothesis exactly, that scientists work for free out of the goodness of their hearts? Next you'll be telling me there's no such thing as lobbying and all politicians serve their constituents.

>none of that matters because: The working class has nothing to sell but their labor power
Just keep ignoring counter-arguments and reciting the words of your prophet like a prayer. That's not cultish.

>You need to learn to read and come back
Are you sure? I peg like a capitalist but I snuggle like an anarchist.
I might have trolled you a little but I did learn something thanks.

>>475254

>s/capital/money/ the argument still stands.

Nope, read a book. Even more capital being money and money always being capital makes no sense as people could not use money to exchange but not accrue capital otherwise. Some times it is some times it is not facts do not care about your feelings.

>If you want to include one and exclude the other then you need a more nuanced definition of "working class".


First of all retired workers live off money they have saved not investments. Interest on retirements is marginal at best. Bankers on the other hand exchange financial capital for more financial capital and debt which are two extremely different things. Have you ever had a job before?

>All scientists and all corporation?

So if it's so universal then you should be able to prove it easily then.

>Just keep ignoring counter-arguments

I keep explaining to you why you are stupid and you keep ignoring me but I guess pigeons aren't super good at chess to begin with.

>I peg like a capitalist but I snuggle like an anarchist.

In reality you are just a retard.

>>475263
>First of all retired workers live off money they have saved not investments.
What happens to that savings when the stonk market takes a plunge?

>>475296
What does the stock market have to do with a savings account? Equities are completely different from a savings. Savings loose value through inflationary environments which the stock market can effect but it's not the end all be all to inflation. That has more to do with the money supply. That is what really effects inflation.

>>475331
You don't know how a 401k works?

>>475331
the stock market and a savings account are not birds of the same feather. It's rather baffling that anyone would even attempt to compare them. You see, a savings account is a glorified piggy bank where your money sits idly, with interest rates so pitiful that inflation can devour your hard-earned cash. The stock market, on the other hand, is where real investors thrive, seeking opportunities to grow their wealth by putting their money to work in actual businesses.
Speaking of inflation, your assertion that it's primarily tied to the money supply is rather naïve. While the money supply certainly plays a role, it's painfully shortsighted to overlook the stock market's significant impact on inflation. Stock market fluctuations can send shockwaves through the economy, affecting consumer sentiment, business investment, and overall economic stability, all of which can directly impact inflation rates. You might want to peruse a few more economics textbooks before making such bold declarations.
dismissing the stock market's influence on inflation as if it's a mere sideshow is an exercise in financial ignorance. It's not just about the money supply; it's about the entire intricate web of economic interdependencies. When stock prices soar or plummet, it can lead to changes in spending patterns, corporate behavior, and monetary policy decisions, all of which can have profound effects on inflation.

>>474531
Indeed, it's a bit like watching a high-stakes game of Monopoly, where some players start with Park Place and Boardwalk while others are still trying to scrape together enough cash to pass "Go." And don't even get me started on those Get Out of Jail Free cards—those seem to mysteriously disappear in certain hands!

But, of course, our dear CEOs aren't merely deluded; they're engaged in a complex dance of fiscal responsibility, shareholder value, and, let's be honest, padding their own pockets. It's like a tightrope walk over a pit of rabid sharks, only with golden parachutes as a safety net.

Now, as for paying our hardworking colleagues on the factory floor a little more, well, that's a debate that's been echoing through the halls of labor relations for eons. $20 or $25 an hour might sound like a dream come true to some, but to others, it's the stuff of nightmares—especially if it means the price of their morning latte takes a leap.