[ overboard / sfw / alt / cytube] [ leftypol / b / WRK / hobby / tech / edu / ga / ent / music / 777 / posad / i / a / R9K / dead ] [ meta ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
Captcha
Tor Only

Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

Matrix   IRC Chat   Mumble   Telegram   Discord


 No.475908[Last 50 Posts]

Voosh may be a cringe dumbfuck himself (lets be fair: what leftoid isn't?), but he's right, you know.

I'm gonna steal that one - marxism-dumbfuckism has a nice ring to it lol.
>>

 No.475909

You know this disgusting fuck only has an audience because you never stop posting about him.
>>

 No.475910

>>475908
>>475909
reddit.com/r/trans
>>

 No.475911

>>475909
But it's the first time I posted about him lol.

The only thing I like about him are his meltdowns. The fat goblin is far more entertaining than that gorilla with a girl's voice called Hasan.
>>

 No.475913

>>475910
>reddit.com/r/trans
have you been to any marxist-dumbfuckist party meeting lately lol?

in your place, I would be checking my rear 24/7 to not get any """surprises""" kek, if you know what I mean…

you never know when a party struggle session could turn into a futanari gang rape lol
>>

 No.475914

>>475911
go suck a horse cock you fat uyghur. faggots like you need to be shot immediately
>>

 No.475915

File: 1697492578886.jpeg ( 22.03 KB , 474x455 , th-1328804026.jpeg )

>>475914
you okay, mate?
>>

 No.475917

>>475908
that guy regurgitates too much ruling ideology don't give him attention

If you don't like the Marxism-theory-originator naming convention.
You can also use the Chinese one. They don't append anything to the word Marxism.
When they try to refer to something more specific they say theory-originator-thought.
>>

 No.475918

>>475917
>that guy regurgitates too much ruling ideology don't give him attention
I will give attention to any ideology. I don't need your babysitting lol.

>the Marxism-theory-originator naming convention.

So Mao originated leninism in marxism-leninism-maoism lol?

So Marxism is not a "theory" in any marxism-dumbfuckism?

>You can also use the Chinese one.

Do Chinese self-described MLMs count as "Chinese" then?

>They don't append anything to the word Marxism.

Apparently they are a hivemind huh… all 1.5 billion of them kek

>theory-originator-thought

how is "theory" different from "thought"?
>>

 No.475920

>>475918
You don't need to give that guy attention, to learn about ruling ideology, it's almost everywhere.

>marxism-leninism-maoism

that's an example of Marxism with two theory originators. Lenin and Mao.
>So Marxism is not a "theory"
Marxism is the underlying philosophy.
It becomes a theory when somebody adapts it to the material conditions of a society.

>MLMs count as "Chinese" ?

Not all communist doing that are Chinese.

>Apparently they are a hivemind

wtf ? no the Chinese are regular people

>how is "theory" different from "thought"?

The Chinese usually say "thought" when they refer to stored knowledge, in the form of books for example.
They usually say "theory" when it's being applied in praxis.
>>

 No.475921

>>475920
>marxism is the underlying philosophy
ungodly amount of based leftcums real quiet after this post
>>

 No.475922

File: 1697496751492.jpeg ( 4.06 KB , 180x293 , Mandel.jpeg )

>>475920
>You don't need to give that guy attention, to learn about ruling ideology, it's almost everywhere.
But I'm not trying to learn about the "ruling ideology". If I wanted that I would go take econ 101 and constitutional law at uni or something.

>that's an example of Marxism with two theory originators. Lenin and Mao.

So Marx is not an "originator"?

So your scheme "Marxism-theory-originator" doesn't apply? It's Marxism-originator-originator then, no? or more like originator-originator-originator kek

>Marxism is the underlying philosophy.

You sure about it mate?

Heard anything about "Marxist economic theory"? Some no-name leftoid called Mandel wrote a two-volume about it.

"Historical Materialism", Marxist theory of history, Rings any bells?

Give me your difference between "philosophy and "theory"

>Not all communist doing that are Chinese.

That's not what I asked.

Again. Do CHINESE self-described MLMs count as "Chinese"?

>no the Chinese are regular people

so you accept that CHINESE MLMs do exist?

>The Chinese usually say "thought" when they refer to stored knowledge, in the form of books for example.

>They usually say "theory" when it's being applied in praxis.
so "theory" is not stored in books then (or other recorded media)?

what about Newton's Principia? was it not a "theory" then?
>>

 No.475923

lol, meanwhile on Infrared…
>>

 No.475924

>>475922
>But I'm not trying to learn about the "ruling ideology"
So what the hell do you get out of that guy ? and please don't say it's for the stupid hot-takes, people have been appending "dumbfuck" to stuff for ages.

>So Marx is not an "originator"?

Marx also wrote theory, for example: Capital: A Critique of Political Economy. For obvious reasons everybody just says "Das Kapital". The practical point of that is ideological struggle.
In addition to that Marx was also the originator of Marxist philosophy in general.

>Give me your difference between "philosophy and "theory"

philosophy, is a general method of thinking, for examples the principles of materialist analysis are part of Marxist philosophy. It becomes theory when you apply the philosophy to a specific set of material conditions, and describe something that can be used in praxis. That praxis in turn gives feedback to adjust the theory. Similar to scientists improving a predictive model, based on new measurements.

>Heard anything about "Marxist economic theory"?

>Mandel wrote a two-volume about it.
that's a book title, the purpose of that is to get people to open the book and read it.
>That's not what I asked.
Not sure what you want.
>Do CHINESE self-described MLMs count as "Chinese"?
Tautological questions make no sense.
>so you accept that CHINESE MLMs do exist?
At present ? probably not, i don't think that china is currently undergoing protracted people's war.

>so "theory" is not stored in books then

when theory has been proven in praxis people tend to write it down, and many chinese marxists will then call it Author-name-thought.

>what about Newton's Principia?

Most people seem to categorize it philosophy, others describe it as foundations of maths. Just go with that, you don't need to apply Marxist naming conventions to Newton.
>>

 No.475933

>>475908
I was expecting him to have an actual point here. He's probably a fed, sure, but sometimes he has zingers! I expected him to actually get into some of the stupid shit MLMs actually say, you know? Just going after their silly name doesn't offer anything interesting.
Disappointed!
>>

 No.475969

File: 1697637203480.png ( 139.74 KB , 363x290 , commissarcat.png )

>>475950
>Class Reductionism
Can you fix your ai-text-bot so that is uses the correct term:
Class consciousness
>>

 No.476011

>Noooo there's only workers and booj. There are no slaves or apartheid in capitalism.
Stay spooked white tankies.
>>

 No.476012

File: 1697699417865.jpg ( 194.04 KB , 1343x1265 , 1653602941103.jpg )

>LARP as le rational and moderate man while having timid, surface-level takes on current situation everyone has heard about already, never have a strong opinion on anything
I really hate these type of morons on the left, but then again, the majority of ecelebs are like this.
>>

 No.476013

>>476011
>Stay spooked
Its ironic you would say those words and then proceed to engage in racialist and sectarian idealism.
>>

 No.476014

>>476013
>Black people literally enslaved for centuries into today via the prison industrial complex.
>Chattel slavery of blacks continued into 1940 via convict leasing with zero reparations which have profound impacts on them today.
>This is all racialist and sectarian idealism because it hurts my white fee fees.
Let me guess, you're some faggot recovering Nazi
>>

 No.476018

File: 1697738254337.jpg ( 59.67 KB , 327x437 , worker power.jpg )

>>476014
There was slavery and that gave rise to racial identitarianism. The slave-owners and slave-merchants needed to dehumanize the slaves to be able to buy and sell humans like cattle, that's the material bases of racial identities.

Today the racial identities are still being upheld because the private prison complex as an echo of slavery has similar material interests of maintaining similar dehumanization that the OG slave economy once did. By the way please don't call it the "prison industrial complex", OG slavery as well as the contemporary pseudo-slavery in the private prison labor camps stand in opposition to industrial development that is based on wage labor. The US experienced a large civil war where industrial capital curb-stomped slave-owning/trading capital. It's of strategical importance to know that this contradiction still persists in a reduced intensity, because it could potentially grant Socialists an advantage.

So you have this all backwards, you are still upholding racialism because you have not freed your self from all aspects of ruling ideology. You still uphold the primacy of racial identities instead of recognizing the material basis that generates these identities. This prevents you from treating humans as universal subjects. By reproducing the racialist way of thinking about society you are unwittingly reproducing the ideological basis for the continuation of the private prison complex and by extension the repression that upholds it.

You help create a social context that pressures people to racially identify. Pressuring people to identify is always the first step towards persecution. A dramatic historical example for emphasis: The First thing the Nazis did, was to force Jew-identity-holders to identify them selves by wearing a star-shaped symbol, they did that to ram the cognitive infrastructure for othering through the visual cortex . They needed a special star symbol because the Jew-identity-holders didn't look any different than the rest of the population. The racial identitarianism that is related to slavery isn't using such a symbol. Instead it has attached it self to a random physical particularity. The level of melanin content of the human skin, but the social mechanism is not too dissimilar.
For reference se point 2 from:
10 stages of genocide
<1. Classification: People are divided into identitarian groups of "in-groups and out-groups”.
<2. Symbolization: People are forced to identify themselves.
<3. Discrimination: People begin to face systematic identitarian discrimination.
<4. Dehumanization: People equated with animals, vermin, diseases or other identitarian slurs.
<5. Organization: The state creates special groups (police/para-military) to enforce identitarian repression policies.
<6. Polarization: The state broadcasts identitarian propaganda to turn the populace against the identitarian out-groups.
<7. Preparation: Official action to remove/relocate identitarian subgroup begins.
<8. Persecution: Beginning of murders, theft of property, trial massacres.
<9. Extermination: Wholesale elimination of the identitarian subgroup. "extermination" linguistically differentiated from "murder" as verbal dehumanization
<10. Denial: The state denies that it has committed any crime.

It would be wrong to point the finger at you and yell "NAZI-brained" because you unwittingly participate in creating social pressures to force people to racially identify, and thus help reproduce the ideology base for the pseudo slavery of the private prison complex. However now that you know, you ought to reexamine your positions.

The most radical ideological opposition to slavery is to deny the slavers the social delusions that they are any different from the slaves. If there is only one universal human subject, than nobody can appeal to difference to be excluded from the risk of enslavement and hence abolishing slavery in all it's variations will become the universal interest.

Finally a warning about the insidious intent of identitarian pseudo-anti-racism. The purpose of that is not to liberate masses of people from racial repression. They only want to liberate potential leaders that could galvanize mass-resistance against systemic-racism. They will try to free individual people that are energetic charismatic and intelligent from racial repression, in order to give them a stake in the status quo and neutralize them as agents of change and the masses of the racially repressed will only be granted a vicarious fiction of liberation. You have to understand that identitarian pseudo-anti-racism can only be a temporary ally, something that might be exploited to get a foot in the door. Once you begin abolishing the systemic infrastructure for racial repression these people will treat you as mortal enemies, because they will defend their material interests as viciously as hooded clansmen. At that stage you have to generate class-consciousness that is stronger than the false consciousness of identitarianism, or you will fail.

Sorry for the wall of text, but that is necessary because the regressive identitarian persuasion of reactionarism has grown so many tentacles of deflection that a certain level of verbosity has become unavoidable
>>

 No.476020

>>476018
>Bwwwwwwaaaaaaa I'm white and I don't want to reconcile the settler colonialism that implicitly occupy and that upholds capitalism and it's requirement for original capital (aka primitive capital).
There saved you all an hour.
>>

 No.476022

>>476018
>OG slavery as well as the contemporary pseudo-slavery in the private prison labor camps stand in opposition to industrial development that is based on wage labor.
No it's not dipshit. Modern prison slavery isn't chattel slavery but it is slavery because it's violent coercion of labor. And not in some abstract sense of having to pay for food or housing. You are literally ripped from your family beaten, raped and jailed by the state and their proxies and it doesn't stop unless you work.
Your soft ass sitting in a cubical going commuting back to a $400k home isn't equivalent to doing hard time.
And daily reminder
CHATTEL SLAVERY LASTED UNTIL 1940
With zero reparations, we are barely out of the shadow of chattel slavery. There's millions of people in the US with living memory of parents who were fucking chattel slaves.
>>

 No.476024

>>476020
>I'm white and I have nothing to offer the world besides moral opinions
There, fixed that for ya
>>

 No.476025

>>476018
>OP's picture
Pure idealism, whites and blacks don't get along because the booj puts mind viruses in their ears.
They don't get along because settlers uphold and occupy stolen land and implicitly endorse enslavement of colonized people in return for crumbs of property and land for themselves.
In other words black people's grievance with racism is material, and not idealist not matter how many times reactionaries throw tantrums about idpol
>>

 No.476026

>>476025
*whites and blacks don't get along not because the booj puts mind viruses in their ears.
>>

 No.476027

>>476025
You need to grow up. Nobody actually cares about this except you
>>

 No.476028

>>476027
Cope tankie faggot, the only thing the public doesn't care about is your anti idpol histrionics, which everyone can see from a mile away is crypto racism I.e. actual and living idpol
>>

 No.476031

File: 1697743215190.png ( 40.93 KB , 600x388 , arrrmaitey.png )

>>476020
I don't have a racial identity, and i resent your attempts at imposing one upon me. Begone with your putrid id-pression. I also don't have a heritage of settler colonialism, all my ancestors were indigenous to the region i live. The only cool ancestor that i have that got around a little bit was a minor pirate that annoyed the conquistadors. I'm counting that as anti-colonial struggle, and i'm quarter-serious about that Matey!

I also note that you failed to refute any of my points against identitarian oppression, you simply tried to attack the moral character of my person. Since you failed to respond to the substance of my arguments I accept your defeat and celebrate my glorious victory in this battle of words.
>>

 No.476033

>>476022
>Modern prison slavery isn't chattel slavery
Nobody said it was.

>it is slavery because it's violent coercion of labor.

The private prison complex is on the slavery spectrum because the inmates are locked up and cannot quit to work for a different employer like what wage-workers can do (at least in principle). What you are saying has the implication that the private prison complex would be acceptable if only it wasn't so violent. You are a incorrigible status-quo-warrior screaming "more padding for prison-guard-batons" Slavery without corporal punishment is still slavery.

>reparations

<less than social democracy.
Implementing the standard list of social-services from a reformist social-democratic political program would uplift the entire "under-class" in the US regardless of skin tone, just make sure nobody sneaks in legal loop-holes to insert racial biases through the backdoor. The only reason to make uplifting the poor racially targeted is so that it never gets implemented because it triggers all the racists and make it politically nonviable as a perpetual racialized battle-ground that destroys anybody that goes near it. I don't know if this is malice or just mindlessness.

Given your identitarian bend i had little hope you would take socialist positions like workers seizing the means of production. However the fact that your line is even to the right of soc-dems, is just dreadful.
>>

 No.476034

File: 1697746560602.jpg ( 65.01 KB , 800x533 , a jar of glow.jpg )

>>476025
>people working together towards their common interests across racialized divisions is just unthinkable.
This has to be glow-shit.

Anybody who spend more than 5 minutes looking into US politics realizes that racialism is the major divide-and-conquer control-mechanism of the US ruling class. If that weakened enough they would loose at least 1 third of their political grip and be forced to implement social well-fare like what Europe had until recently.
>>

 No.476035

>>476031
>I don't have a racial identity,
No one gives a fuck, what I'm talking about is the systemic violent enforcement of white supremacy to maintain an slave class for captialism. Not of those material critiques are predicated on your bitch ass white grievance butt hurt.
>>

 No.476036

>>476034
>This has to be glow-shit.
The only glow shit is you deflecting criticism of white supremacy and pretending to be a leftist.
I never see you cowardly "anti idpol" crypto CHUDs in the field and I never will cry moar ya glowie jacketing Fed fash attack dog
>>

 No.476037

File: 1697746807214-0.png ( 110.79 KB , 1920x1824 , The_Scientific_Method.png )

File: 1697746807214-1.jpg ( 698.89 KB , 1125x860 , Uralmoto.jpg )

>>475924
>So what the hell do you get out of that guy ?
entertainment?

his hot takes are genuinely hilarious, from marxism-dumbfuckism to impending troon genocide

>Marx also wrote theory

no shit huh

>The practical point

the practical point is that Marx can count as an "originator" of marxist theory no less so than a fucking Lemming can count as an "originator" of an ML theory

>Marx was also the originator of Marxist philosophy in general.

philosophy has nothing to do with theory proper, so the word "general" is out of place in your sentence

>philosophy, is a general method of thinking, for examples the principles of materialist analysis are part of Marxist philosophy.

the general method is the scientific method, not philosophy lol

philosophy got relegated to the dustbin of history the moment natural philosophy ditched all its the metaphysical baggage in the 18th century

>It becomes theory when you apply the philosophy to a specific set of material conditions, and describe something that can be used in praxis.

It becomes theory when you make a hypothesis lol

>That praxis in turn gives feedback to adjust the theory. Similar to scientists improving a predictive model, based on new measurements.

lol, that's not "similar"

that literally a universal scientific method that has nothing to do with your philosophy

>that's a book title, the purpose of that is to get people to open the book and read it.

you can read minds of the dead people now? the book literally has "MARXIST THEORY" in its title, quit your coping lol

you do a disservice to marxism by claiming there are no marxist theories lol

>Not sure what you want.

>Tautological questions make no sense.
you playing dumb or something?

>At present ? probably not, i don't think that china is currently undergoing protracted people's war.

So there can be no MLMs without "protracted people's war"? What about MLMs in the West? They don't exist too?

>when theory has been proven in praxis people tend to write it down

Wrong. New theory is presented in written form to the scientific community for review and testing. Even in China.

>Most people seem to categorize it philosophy, others describe it as foundations of maths. Just go with that, you don't need to apply Marxist naming conventions to Newton.

How is the theory of motion a philosophy lol?

I don't apply "marxist naming conventions" to anything. I apply general scientific naming conventions to marxism lol.
>>

 No.476038

>>476012
>LARP as le rational and moderate man
the dude literally advocates for shooting republicans in the streets kek
>>

 No.476039

>>476035
>racial supremacy is bad
We agree on this
>now let me socially reproduce racial supremacy, via reproducing the racialist ideology by mentally sorting people into racial categories.
This is maddening, on the one hand you seem to be genuinely opposed to all the effects of racial divisions, but any suggestion to engage in ideological struggle to undermine the ideological foundations of racism gets immediately rejected.

Do you have any personal attachments to racialist identities ?
For example: Do you believe you "have a race" and does it feel real to you, if so can you explain why ?
>>

 No.476040

>>476036
>false accusations, personal attacks
Nope, we're done with the adhoms.

The fact remains that racial division is a major political tool wielded by the US bourgeoisie against the masses living in the US.
Convince me that you're not a glowie doing ideological battle against the concept of people working together across racial divisions. For example you could elaborate on a few strategies that would enable the masses to sufficiently overcome racial divisiveness to regain at least some amount of political agency and work towards common interests.
>>

 No.476041

>>476039
>Uppity Niqqers complaining about racism and not violent enforcement of a slave class and the explicit and implicit upholding of it by prole settlers is why there's racial tension in the working class.
>Since the slave class in capitalism is predicated on identity we can't talk about it because it hurts my white fee fees. Look at all these YouTube videos that agree it's cringe!
You can act as haughty as you want but if you talked any of this shit around my neighborhood you'd have that tiki torch stuffed up your ass.
You're yet another fucking recovering Nazi that pivoted to being a tankie and wants to pretend racism doesn't exist and that its all idealism.
There is, and always has been a slave class in capitalism and it had largely been composed of black and brown people. Just because you're too much of a spooked bitch to reconcile that doesn't mean you can AstroTurf the rest of the left with your weakness.
>>

 No.476042

>>475923
Infratard is such a grifter holy shit. He sucked so many russkie cocks that he got Duginpilled kek. Nazbol pipeline is real.
>>

 No.476044

>>476040
>false accusations, personal attacks
Not false, only people that benefit from the censoring of white supremacy do so.
>The fact remains that racial division is a major political tool wielded by the US bourgeoisie against the masses living in the US.
Idealist pap, the booj gives settlers a material benefit in exchange for the continuation of a slave class that doesn't include them.
It's material violence, not marvel movies and TV shows about racism that hurt your pussy feelings.
>For example you could elaborate on a few strategies that would enable the masses to sufficiently overcome racial divisiveness to regain at least some amount of political agency and work towards common interests.
The slave class had to liberate itself. No slave revolt was lead by slaves negotiating with house negros.
>>

 No.476046

>>476044
Dude, the fuck you want? A black president lol?
>>

 No.476048

File: 1697751776571.jpeg ( 20.34 KB , 480x300 , hotep.jpeg )

wait, you are that hotep that was arguing how we still have institutionalized racial slavery because prison labor or something?
>>

 No.476049

>>476041
Racial identitarianism was central to the ideological superstructure of Nazi-type fascism.

One of the problems of liberal idealists is your inability to look past these identitarian categories. You have conceptual over-lap with fascist ideology. You both uphold racialism, you just disagree about what to do within the racialist frame-work. That makes you ideologically vulnerable to fascism. You point at people and give them racialist or whatever identities, and then you have to spend so much energy to keep all the terrible people from scapegoating/bullying/murdering these identity-groups.

Historically liberalism had a lot more ideological trouble with fascism, removing eugenics ideology from liberalism was extremely difficult and is very much incomplete to this day.

Communists did not have any trouble with that sort of thing. If you don't believe in racial boxes than Jews are just workers and killing workers makes no sense. There is no confusion, no need for complex moral arguments. I realize that Stalin bullied a lot of biologists and messed up the scientific process by promoting stupid shit like Lysenko-ism, but that lesson has been learned, and compared to the holocaust, it was extremely minor damage.

Check out Paul Robson's speech in front of the "committee for unamerican activities" where he said and i paraphrase:
"In the Soviet Union i felt like a real human being for the first time, no color prejudice, i felt no pressure of color"
skipp to 7:44 for the relevant part
https://farside.link/invidious/watch?v=VhnCrHZkgNk
tho i recommend listening to the entire thing.

Ideologically communists have a much easier time to curb racism because they reject the idealist racial categories out of hand. For example that type of crypto-racism where a particular type of right-winger likes to pretend they care about intelligence. If there are no racial categories, there can be no mentally inferior/superior racial groups, and a argument for political disenfranchisement can't be made in the first place. You're going to get stuck in an argument that races don't exist long before you can say anything stupid about intelligence.
>>

 No.476050

>>476044
>censoring of white supremacy
If we managed to yeet racial consciousness from society, that would brick any attempt at implementing racial supremacy.
I don't understand why you are opposed to that ?

With the racialist consciousness gone people would still have residual xenophobic tendencies and unconsciously sort them selves into groups of similar looking people, but that's irrelevant detail. There is a immune system advantage and a reduction in recessive-gene-defects when maximizing biological diversity, but if the population size is large enough that doesn't really matter either way. I'm only bringing this up because i'm trying to figure out what your true motivation to uphold racialism is. I don't seem to be able to get past your canned responses.
>>

 No.476053

File: 1697759286951.jpg ( 100.28 KB , 702x876 , 1697079203569324.jpg )

>>476049
>One of the problems of liberal idealists is your inability to look past these identitarian categories. You have conceptual over-lap with fascist ideology.
Pure projection. You defend actual living fascism by tirelessly deflecting and frustrating criticism of white supremacy.
You propagandize for the bourgeois, hysterically proclaiming powerless SJWs are the existential threat to the slave class and not the police and justice system which breaks mangles 10's of thousands of black and brown bodies every year.
You crow on even now about the dangers of ideology and media and not tanks, rifles and billy clubs. You think tik tokers speaking out about racism are more dangerous than the police men that chokes the breath from black proles.
You are little different the countless alt right talking heads caterwauling about black actors taking on traditionally white roles.
The only places your pathetic mewling finds purchase are on backwards corners of the internet like 4chan and 8chan of which this is a successor of. Places whose only contribution to society is to regularly radicalize racist mass shooters talked into rebelling against the made up danger of "idpol" by shivering chickenhawks like you.
You are borne from a long line of failures and child killers.
Anywhere you and your ilk decide to screech your tired cyrpto racism you are met with face punches and anger. Of which you pathetically uphold as proof that you're right and that others simply can't accept the truth.
Stay in your little cave punk, its the only place you will ever find refuge.
>>

 No.476054

>>476048
Are you one of an endless sea of settler honkies that thinks racism isn't real?
>>

 No.476055

File: 1697760887799.jpg ( 137.33 KB , 625x605 , 1693107425965048.jpg )

>>476050
>If we managed to yeet racial consciousness from society, that would brick any attempt at implementing racial supremacy.
No, we'd still have black people going to prison and being enslaved but now the government would have cover over it's racist policies by good settler bootlickers like you.
>>

 No.476056

File: 1697768555658.jpg ( 88.88 KB , 1200x948 , classwar v racewar.jpg )

>>476053
There is no relation to my post or any of the points i've raised. You seem to be shadow boxing against something else that bears no relation to me and anything i say. You're debate style reminds me of the rhetorical vitriol that is common in privilege-struggles in caste systems. Is that it ? Are racial identities like different castes to you ? Are you under the impression our debate is some type of inter-cast-competition ?

It's also become very obvious that you hold deeply reactionary views. The conversation we had can be characterized by increasing hostility to class conscious views.

Anyway the workers should unite regardless of their skin complexion and fight for their shared interests, that's where liberation will come from.
>>

 No.476058

>>476056
>Racism only exists because of wokeism and ESS JAY DOUBLE JEWS. And some bitchy remarks about how I talk.
Can you name the MATERIAL ways idpol has divided the working class? I can certainly name how white supremacy has destroyed blacks. The deaths, lynchings, enslavement, police brutality etc.
But can you name the material damage idpol has caused. No vague aspersions about being "decisive", hard facts.
Like do you think the Civil Rights Act which protect against racial discrimination, has caused this racial division? Would abolishing that law bring the working class together?
TV? Movies? Tweets? Rap Music? What and how are these MATERIALLY causing class division?
>>

 No.476059

>>476055
Well at least you're no longer saying that racial divisions are insurmountable barriers for cooperation between workers, so maybe you're not a glowie after-all.

Lets now address the private prisons as the remnant of the slave economy that survived the official abolition of slavery. There are no slave markets anymore, slaves are no longer bought and sold, but there still are people getting captured and subjected to forced labor. Comparing the police doing shit like war on drugs to increase the incarceration-rate is somewhat reminiscent of the activities of slave-catchers.

Lets say you're not a communist revolutionary that seeks to fundamentally create a new society/system (which you clearly aren't). And you just want to end the private prison complex. The brute force method of organizing prison revolts might allow you to free those people from confinement, but what comes after that?

The non brute force method would be ideological struggle to change the ideological superstructure first:

The racialist identities were originally invented by the slave economy as part of it's ideological superstructure, the purpose was to pretend that slaves weren't human so that they could be treated like livestock. Because the racial identities dehumanized people they have to be considered false consciousness. Since that time the false consciousness has persisted because there still are material interests in maintaining it. The private prison complex represents one of those, and sowing social divisions to hinder workers for organizing is another.

If you can destroy this false consciousness with ideological struggle by eroding racial identitarianism , you undermine that specific part of the ideological superstructure and reduce it's ability to maintain that specific part of the material base. The racist structures do not solely exist as racist believes in the heads of people, they also exist on a systemic level. You can go the full communist route and rip out capitalism and build a new system, that will fix it, new economic structures will eventually overpower racist believes as well. In the absence of that you are stuck with the option of getting people to realize that racial identities are false consciousness so they stop reproducing the racist systemic structures. This may be possible within capitalism, a number of capitalist countries have virtually zero "slavery-like" social relations.

However the price for that is that you have to destroy the racial identities all-together. What the liberals do will not work because they preserve the idea of racial difference/separation. That means the threat of getting captured as forced laborer for the private prison complex only exists for a subsection of the population. And the rest of the population who has a different racial-identity has no incentive to care because it doesn't affect them. While some people will care anyway, that won't be enough. Many liberals do understand this dynamic very well and that's why they will grant you lots of racial-equality measures because they know that none of those can fundamentally change this equation.

I suspect that you might be one of those, but i typed out this hole post just in case you're not.
>>

 No.476061

>>476058
>Racism and wokeism
The political phenomenon you call "wokeism" certainly is inflaming existing racism.
>ESS JAY DOUBLE JEWS
this seems like antisemitism, but never mind i don't want to know, i don't need trivia knowledge about obscure racist slurs.

>Can you name the MATERIAL ways idpol has divided the working class?

Well it organizationally separates workers into a lots of different identity groups that fight against each other. It's also "fantastic" at wrecking leftist political organizing with intense narcissism and purity spirals. It creates unbearably complex and suffocating social hierarchies that kill any sense of solidarity. It's outrageously censorious to the point of replicating theocratic techniques of frustrating all democratic process. It's extremely hostile to any involvement of the masses and functions as social exclusion mechanism that keep leftist organization small, impotent and splintered.

>the Civil Rights Act which protect against racial discrimination

It clearly doesn't, look up the statistics of incarceration rates, life expectancy, getting gunned down by police, the list goes on and on, every metric that exists shows racial discrimination.

>TV? Movies? Tweets? Rap Music?

I can't be bothered to critique the cultural industry, read something like The Dialectic of Enlightenment by Theodor Adorno, that's got a hole chapter dedicated to it.
>>

 No.476062

>>476058
>White people are bad except me because I'm the white person who is telling you that white people are bad
That's all this comes down to. Midwit weak wristed white 20 somethings with absolutely no social value, who invent a moral hierarchy to stand on top of so they tell can feel better about their shit existence and lack of contribution to the world.

<It's pure cope and existential faggotry
>>

 No.476063

File: 1697786463697.jpg ( 83.86 KB , 905x942 , spooked.jpg )

>>476058
>white supremacy has destroyed blacks
>>

 No.476069

>>476058
>Can you name the MATERIAL ways idpol has divided the working class? I can certainly name how white supremacy has destroyed blacks.
You are the proof my dude.

The people you think are "white supremacists" are just working class trump voters. And you regard the billionaires who fly rainbow flags outside their corporate headquarters as your allies against the evil racists.

If you had two bullets and stood before a white plumber with a MAGA hat and a black CEO with a rainbow flag you should shoot the white worker twice. That's how idpol has divided the working class and derailed your movement.
>>

 No.476072

>>476069
>Assuming the idpol fag is part of the working class and not some neet or humanties student
ngmi
>>

 No.476073

>>476061
>look up the statistics of incarceration rates, life expectancy, getting gunned down by police, the list goes on and on, every metric that exists shows racial discrimination.
If every metric shows blacks having worse outcomes then that could just be because blacks are genetically inferior, not because there is a grand worldwide conspiracy against them.
>>

 No.476074

>>476073
You fail to understand, genetically speaking there are no "races" the way you understand it. Compared to the variation that exists in most animal-species humans are closer to being clones.

What is really being measured, is creating an identity for a social group and than using id-pol as a method of separation to put some people into worse material conditions. Then bodies work less efficiently like a machine in a corrosive environment. When people with a different racial-identity are subjected to the same conditions, we see similar results.

There's just universal human people, and you can only pass judgements on a individual level, and only if you account for their environment.
>>

 No.476077

>>476074
>this race of people is being oppressed
>also there is no such thing as race
The mental gymnastics people jump through to defend irrational superstitions. The blank slate is to 21st century liberals what the virgin birth was to 16th century christians.

>What is really being measured, is creating an identity for a social group and than using id-pol as a method of separation to put some people into worse material conditions.

Except we've had decades of affirmative action and welfare programs to compensate for these "material conditions" and disparities are still as high as ever. So at what point are you going to entertain the possibility there are some genetic variables at play which you can't just wish away.
>>

 No.476078

>>476072
>I have no arguments but I'm a settler and want the slavery abolitionist to shit up and stop hurting my white fee fees. Oh I know I'll project on him and start casting aspersions about them not being in the working class as if that has anything to do with anything.
You settlers are such bitchy queens you know that.
>>

 No.476079

>>476078
>I know I'll project on him and start casting aspersions
My brother in chist you are the one who just wrote an entire fake scenario of green text that never happened.

The point you are so ineptly trying to avoid is that you care more about race than class. You have more affection for a black CEO than a white plumber.
>>

 No.476085

>>476077
You still don't get it, i don't think there are races of people in the first place, because that's the biological reality viewpoint. I think the error that is causing the bad outcomes has already occurred when people got separated into arbitrary groups, that you call "races".

About the genetic variable. You are not looking at the genes of an individual organism. What you consider a "race" is not an organism that has genes, it's a category in your head. All the individual people that you group into a racial box all have different genes.

You are also misunderstanding the kind of politics i want to promote, i do not want racialised politics. I want well-fare for the impoverished completely independent of any of their identities.
>>

 No.476104

>>476085
>i don't think there are races of people in the first place
Then what are you talking about when you say "racial discrimination"? You can't have it both ways.

>What you consider a "race" is not an organism that has genes, it's a category in your head.

Race is a group of people who evolved together in a specific geographic area over hundreds of generations. People who evolved in hot climates developed dark skin to survive the sun. People who evolved in cold climates evolved higher intelligence to survive the winter. That's the only scientific explanation for such universal and consistent racial disparities we are faced with. Just like the gender issue, no amount of money, politics or propaganda is going to change basic biology.
>>

 No.476108

>>476078
>Slams whole foods coffee
>>

 No.476111

>>476104
No amount of money, politics, or propaganda can change the indisputable empirical reality that there is often more genetic diversity within ethnic groups than between them. For you conception of human races to hold any sort of categorical coherence, there are either one or two "races" that evolved outside Africa and over a hundred that exist entirely in Africa, or there is currently only one race of humans left on the planet. Your comparison to sex is off by orders of magnitude; distinct sexes among our ancestors has been established and selected for across 500 million years, whereas modern humans emerged from a severe population bottleneck only about 800,000 years ago. Furthermore, humans didn't really expand out of their small niche in Africa to the rest of the world until about 60,000 years ago. That's a blink of an eye in evolutionary terms, very little time to accumulate substantial genetic differences due to isolation, and these were quickly undone when the last glacial period receded by humanity's tendency to migrate long distances and interbreed.
>>

 No.476112

>>476063
>Actually blacks would be better off if they ignored the slave underclass their in. Adopting politics that are convenient to the material interests of middle class settlers like me are what's not spooked.
Be sure to like and subscribe to support this channel and it's "War on Woke!$
>>

 No.476113

>>476108
>Comments on a "The Quartering" video.
>>

 No.476114

>>476074
>You fail to understand, genetically speaking there are no "races"
You intentionally pretend that discrimination cannot be entirely based on how someone looks
>>

 No.476115

>>476104
>Then what are you talking about when you say "racial discrimination"?
When you assignee a racial identity to somebody you take away their universal humanity and shrink them down to a particularity difference.

>Race is a group of people who evolved together in a specific geographic area over hundreds of generations.

That is almost the scientific definition for subspecies. Outside of a few isolated hunter-gatherer tribes, that doesn't exist. There is so much horizontal genetic exchange, that sub-speciation can be ruled out. There is a greater genetic delta between two random people than between any two groups. Humans also have extremely high genetic homogeneity, there is less genetic difference between you and somebody from the other side of the world than between related monkeys from a single monkey-family.

>People who evolved in cold climates evolved higher intelligence to survive the winter

There are very stupid people thriving in cold climates and there also are very intelligent people living in equatorial regions, so that probably isn't it. If you wanted to group intelligent people on the one hand and un-intelligent people on the other, why not just do that directly ? You would be looking for good quality brains and what the body looks like that carries those brains would be irrelevant.

>Just like the gender issue, no amount of money, politics or propaganda is going to change basic biology.

For some odd reason you seem to be thinking that i hold the same opinions as the liberals, i disagree with liberals as much as I disagree with you.
The liberals are likely wrong with their gender-identity-theories and they are now trying to fuck with biology the same way Christianity tried to fuck with astronomy. As a result biology as a field will die and will get replaced with a bunch of biology adjacent fields that are too technical for the "gender-id-theologians".

You are wrong about biology too, race-theories and genetics are holey incompatible fields. The point of those long 4 letter codes made of (A)denine, (C)ytosine, (G)uanine and (T)hymine is to replace all the previous arbitrary and vague descriptions/categories with very precise genetic sequences. You have to bin race-theories before you can enter the domain of genetics, the same way you have to bin Geo-centrism if you want to do astronomy.
>>

 No.476116

File: 1697827827275.gif ( 28.15 KB , 312x312 , spooky silly skeleton.gif )

>>476112
Can you capture and measure a quantity of "white supremacy" for us? Place it in a cage or interrogate it? Does it have a mind of its own? Is it an autonomous entity that can exert its own agency on people?
>>

 No.476117

>>476059
>Well at least you're no longer saying that racial divisions are insurmountable barriers for cooperation between workers,
In the same way anything is possible. In the 4 centuries since black slavery started settlers have never once as a class rejected the offer the ruling class has given them.
This idea that I'm obligated to always consider that white people COULD turn against their own interest to stand in solidarity with the slave class is just liberal moralizing
>>

 No.476118

>>476116
Yes, the number of case studies of white supremacy is legion. Police brutality statistics, poverty, history.
Do you not consider chattel slavery of blacks racist? That continued until 1940.
Do you have any more concern trolling questions to post that I can make you look stupid with?
>>

 No.476119

File: 1697828462397.gif ( 62.44 KB , 312x312 , spooky scary skeleton.gif )

>>476117
Well you're going to have to use something else to organize people today, since settlers "as a class" no longer exist (outside Israel). Simply moaning about bad things that were done by dead people to other dead people doesn't get you closer to organizing the living.
>>

 No.476120

>>476118
You're asserting that disparity statistics indirectly prove the existence of white supremacy, correct? You weren't asked to prove its existence through indirect measures, as if white supremacy is dark matter or dark energy in astrophysics. You were asked if you could capture and measure a quantity of white supremacy itself.
>>

 No.476122

>>476111
>humans didn't really expand out of their small niche in Africa to the rest of the world until about 60,000 years ago. That's a blink of an eye in evolutionary terms
It was enough to evolve meaningfully different skin tones and it was enough to evolve meaningfully different autism scores.

>>476114
>You intentionally pretend that discrimination cannot be entirely based on how someone looks
You intentionally pretend that how someone looks cannot be entirely based on race.

>>476115
>If you wanted to group intelligent people on the one hand and un-intelligent people on the other, why not just do that directly ?
If you do that then you will have a disproportionate amount of whites and asians in one category and a disproportionate amount of "persons of color" in the other. And that upsets blank slate believers who think there is only one human race and everybody is born with equal potential. It makes them think that there is some global white supremacist conspiracy to oppress the people of color and they will tear society apart trying to "fix" it.

>For some odd reason you seem to be thinking that i hold the same opinions as the liberals

You are the same in the sense that you think political power can defeat natural laws.

I'm not really interested in continuing so I'll leave you with this:
if there is a genetic link between race and autism score then the only way to fix it is with more scientific research. By waging jihad against anyone who even approaches the topic you are actually enforcing the status quo.
>>

 No.476124

>>476122
For grownups who don't need to be protected from blasphemous words "autism scores" is ΙQ.
>>

 No.476126

>>476124
You're definitely not a grownup.
>>

 No.476127

File: 1697829469487.jpg ( 312.44 KB , 1920x1080 , witch.jpg )

>>476059
>Lets now address the private prisons as the remnant of the slave economy that survived the official abolition of slavery.
It is not a remnant, it is simply another permutation.
>The racialist identities were originally invented by the slave economy as part of it's ideological superstructure, the purpose was to pretend that slaves weren't human so that they could be treated like livestock.
>If you can destroy this false consciousness with ideological struggle by eroding racial identitarianism , you undermine that specific part of the ideological superstructure and reduce it's ability to maintain that specific part of the material base.
>If uppity niqqers stopped saying police beat them because they're black they'd stop.
And here it is. The white paternalism.
That white haven't stood in solidarity with the black slave underclass because they just won't shut up about racism ;_;
The underlying paternal assumption is that the slave class NEEDS the white settler class achieve liberation when every episode of history has proven this to not be true.
This is white supremacist concern trolling. If blacks just shut up about racism, and therefore re entrench white supremacy by making it's existence disappear in the popular conscious, then white's would GLADLY help them.
The truth is you want people who's family lives have been shattered to stay silent about your own culpability in their plight. So that their oppression can go right on and continue.
You hold out "Revolution" as some kind of justification like the feudal king of yore holding out "heaven" as reward for the shitty conditions they endure.
>However the price for that is that you have to destroy the racial identities all-together.
No dipshit, you have to end the material violence uphold the racial identities. Tip toeing around your bitch as feelings will do jack shit to change the violence and exploitation of black people.
>>

 No.476128

File: 1697829750647.jpg ( 26.57 KB , 384x339 , spok headeach.jpg )

>>476114
>You intentionally pretend that discrimination cannot be entirely based on how someone looks
Obviously yes. It makes no logical sense to blame the appearance of somebody for the actions of third parties.

Lets take for example the rate at which police kills various people in the US. If the coppers are statistically 4 times more likely to shoot a guy with dark skin. Where do you think the problem lies ? Is it the dark skin magically influencing the trigger mechanism, making it more likely that the gun goes off ? Or is it perhaps that the malfunction can be found in the brains of the police-fire-arm-operator ?

Think about the insane logic of your theory of appearance-causality.

Here are a few examples to emphasize how retarded this logic is
<The large amount of brown ink in the photo of the job-application made the paper jump into the rejected pile all on it's own.
<His skin was so dark that it warped the path of bullets towards him.

I know that this is not what you intend to say, but it is what you are actually saying. I really would like an explanation what broke language to such a degree that you and pretty much everybody else is saying the opposite of what they mean.
>>

 No.476130

>>476115
>When you assignee a racial identity to somebody you take away their universal humanity and shrink them down to a particularity difference.
>Actually people fighting discrimination are making it worse because they're calling black people black!
LMAO, go back to fucking YouTube with this Alt-Right shit you fucking liberal.
Saying black people are black isn't dehumanizing them. It is the industrial fucking violent oppression that is.
Go cry to fucking Nerdrotic about how BLM and blacks in Marvel Movies ARE WHAT'S REALLY OPPRESSION BLACKS! AND WHAT'S REALLY DIVIDING THE WORKING CLASS!
Because in your weak idealist mind, cartoons and videogames have more profound impacts on people's lives than summary executions in the street by blood thirsty cops and evictions.
Just fucking hang yourself already.
>>

 No.476131

File: 1697829911001.png ( 12.25 KB , 427x400 , reddit.png )

>>476130
>LMAO, go back to fucking YouTube with this Alt-Right shit you fucking liberal.
>>

 No.476132

>>476119
Settlers do exist as a class. The land is still occupied and the colonized are still enslaved.
This is that white monkey logic that says if it wasn't you that violently displaced someone, you're not a settler!
#standwithIsrael
>>

 No.476133

>>476128
>Or is it perhaps that the malfunction can be found in the brains of the police-fire-arm-operator ?
Even that doesn't really get at the underlying class process at work.
https://nonsite.org/how-racial-disparity-does-not-help-make-sense-of-patterns-of-police-violence/
>>

 No.476134

>>476120
>Prove white supremacy exists.
>No no you can't use facts.
>>476128
>Obviously yes. It makes no logical sense to blame the appearance of somebody for the actions of third parties.
Oh I remember you, you're that alt-right 4 chan /pol/yp that I've argued with before that thinks since race can't be scientifically categorized, it somehow proves that a slavery caste can't be based on the color of someone's skin.
Yeah, sure, it's just a cowinkydink that centuries of history explicitly state that their violence was based on their skin i.e. race.
>>

 No.476135

>>476131
You're the one that'd fit right in at Reddit with your "color blind" rhetoric. You sound like a liberal from the 90's. "Oh, I don't see color!".
>>

 No.476137

>>476061
>The political phenomenon you call "wokeism" certainly is inflaming existing racism.
How, show proof. Is it because it's lead to more violence from Nazis. Is that how you measure class cohesion, by whether fascists are placated or not. I know that it is.
>>

 No.476138

File: 1697830538421.jpg ( 70.54 KB , 850x400 , Marx-history.jpg )

>>476130
The supreme irony is that you're calling others idealists… when you seem totally immersed in an immaterial, intangible interpretation of reality where thoughts are solely responsible for things that happen in the world. Have you ever had a look at Karl Marx and historical materialism? It's quite enlightening, it'll really change how you think about the world.
>>

 No.476139

File: 1697830672864.jpg ( 77.42 KB , 928x696 , emu.jpg )

>>476134
>alt-right
Can you stop, please? This is incredibly embarrassing, you're sticking out like a sore thumb.

Lurk moar, newfag.
>>

 No.476140

>>476138
No faggot, you're the one that thinks reading Lenin while other settler reactionaries jerk you off means you've read Marx.
Marx explicitly states that capitalism needs "original capital" which was mistranslated as primitive capital.
Black slave labor has always acted as that original capital. Marx even touched on how colonialism in Ireland acts original capital in Britain.
>>476139
Can you please stop sounding like a 12 year old that's gotten sucked into the YouTube alt-right pipeline.
Because that's where all your shitty "race not scientific" "anti-racists are the real racist" and "actually racism can't be real if there's poor whites" all come from.
>>

 No.476142

>>476138
>OP's Marx quote
>The past effects the present
Yeah, that supports the idea that past chattel slavery of blacks and it's continuation in a softer form is why they are an underclass.
>>

 No.476144

File: 1697832582634.jpg ( 26.94 KB , 500x625 , race is skin deep.jpg )

>>476122
>It was enough to evolve meaningfully different skin tones
some people dramatically change their skin tone during their life.

>If you do that then you will have a disproportionate amount of whites and asians in one category and a disproportionate amount of "persons of color" in the other.

That is perhaps what you would see because you have the idealism filter turned on. Hard materialists would not really care about the wrapping of intelligent brains, because that's irrelevant in this case.

>And that upsets blank slate believers who think there is only one human race and everybody is born with equal potential.

Lets say you are right with your speculation about the distribution of skin-tones that intelligent brains come packaged with. We can't really tell if that's true because people live in radically different environments that have different effects on brain-development. But lets ignore that for a moment, you would still loose so many intelligent people only because their appearance of their bodies are less typical for intelligent brains. The point here is to at least give everybody a chance without disqualifying anybody based on other factors that isn't really related to intelligence. After-all You're thinking with your brain, not your epidermis.

By the way what annoys the "one-human-race people" is the default assumption that racial-identities are anything but idealism. It's such a drag to always have to mentally re-frame everything before it's possible to understand. You seam to be incapable of imagining that your racial-boxes seem patently absurd.

>It makes them think that there is some global white supremacist conspiracy to oppress the people of color and they will tear society apart trying to "fix" it.

No there is a conspiracy to divide the singular human species into sub-species, where there are is only one.

>if there is a genetic link between race and autism score then the only way to fix it is with more scientific research.

Sigh, there are no link between genes and races-categories. Race-categories are part of deprecated 19 century biology, that got replace with genetics. You have to reject race theories in order to do genetics.

By the way Eye-Q scores are unscientific, they don't directly measure the brain for intelligence, they introduce testimonial bias, because you need people to fill out tests, which requires the cooperation of test subjects. If they fill out a bunch of nonsense because they don't feel like putting in the effort to think hard, you test scores are bunk, and there is no objective way to tell.

However if we could find out the bio-logical specs for making intelligent brains, than we probably would try to find the brain equivalent of what glasses have done for eye-sight.
>>

 No.476145

File: 1697832783452.jpg ( 32.82 KB , 640x360 , Adolph Reed.jpg )

>>476133
good post
as usual Adolph Reed delivers
>>

 No.476146

>>476134
>Oh I remember you, you're that alt-right 4 chan /pol/yp that I've argued with before
Lol, no i'm not your "nemesis" from another chan.

>race can't be scientifically categorized, it somehow proves that a slavery caste can't be based on the color of someone's skin.

My take on this is that if you can't scientifically prove it, it's probably bunk, and you shouldn't use it if you care about intellectual rigor and honesty. You can use any symbol you want to delineate different casts in a cast system, many use special hats and casts with more privileges/power have bigger more elaborate hats. You obviously also can use some arbitrary physiological characteristic instead of a hat. British yellow-press tabloid-papers tried to meme ratios between fingers lengths into social consciousness for that, they tried for years and it didn't stick, and it became a scientific curiosity that turned into a kind of text-book example. The point of bringing this up that variation in the ratios of finger length do not cause casts anymore than the pigmentation of that external organ with a large surface area. It's not a causal factor.

>it's just a cowinkydink

the symbol that casts use is arbitrary
>>

 No.476148

File: 1697836140097.png ( 17.56 KB , 370x320 , let me out of the box.png )

>>476130
>Saying black people are black isn't dehumanizing them.
You take large multidimensional universal human beings and then you make them small and one-dimensional to put them into your racial identity boxes, that is very dehumanizing.

The rest of your post seems to be related to some argument you have with other people, maybe you should have that argument with those people instead of me. I don't really know that much about current blockbuster movies and contemporary gaming, so i can't really comment on that. I also would find it magnanimous of you if you avoided discharging your frustrations with other people on me.
>>

 No.476181

Voosh COMPLETELY OBLITERATES zigger nazoid """communist""" kek.

When will Marxists-Dumbfuckists learn?
>>

 No.476182

File: 1697896282394.jpeg ( 22.03 KB , 474x455 , th-1328804026.jpeg )

Imagine getting assraped in a debate by a fucking Voosh of all people lmao.

Marxists-Dumbfuckists are such smoothbrained spergs holy shit.
>>

 No.476183

>>476181
That Eddie dumbfuck LITERALLY REPEATS the same talking points as our ziggers here lol.

Which makes me think that those ziggers are all a product of an organized effort.

The dumbfuck gives an impression of a useful idiot, but he is a part of some organization, no? I think leadership of that organization is in cahoots with the russkies to some degree.

After all, we know that Haz and Hinkle are 100% paid russkie shills.

But it's hilarious how Voosh reactions to that dumbfuck are literally my reactions to ziggers here kek.
>>

 No.476184

>>476181
And fucking Voosh thinks that Pooting is irrational and an Absolute Monarch or something kek.

And that dumbfuck conceded that point, because they are both libs that think individual politicians, and not systems of reproduction, decide shit. Only one thinks muh Pooting crazy, and other thinks muh Zelenskyy crazy lol.
>>

 No.476185

File: 1697902853736.png ( 152.12 KB , 602x584 , vaucia.png )

>>476181
>>476182
that guy is parroting so many CIA talking points, he might be actually be a paid shill. Stop giving him attention economy points.
>>

 No.476187

>>476185
zigga, establishing a timeline of the events is not a CIA talking point kek

It's just an objective FACT OF LIFE that shelling of muh donbassians and burning of muh odessians started AFTER Russkia seized Crimea and literal russkie nazoids like Strelkov started shit in Donbas

your ass is gonna get obliterated in ANY DEBATE on these points kek
>>

 No.476188

>>476185
>he might be actually be a paid shill
he might

but zigger faggots like Haz and Hinkle are ALREADY PROVEN RUSSKIE PAID SHILLS KEK

And again, looking as that Eddie dumbfuck was literally reading from a list of zigger talking points that is FUCKING WORD-FOR-WORD equvalent to zigger talking points that get spammed on this board - I'm betting that dumbfuck is a paid russkie shill too.
>>

 No.476190

>>476183
>Which makes me think that those ziggers are all a product of an organized effort.
>After all, we know that Haz and Hinkle are 100% paid russkie shills.
If the Ukraine war has shown anything, it's that Russia sucks at projecting soft-power propaganda into the western sphere, where they couldn't even win the argument when they were destroying Azov Nazis with big Swastika tatoos.

The people that are opposed to NATO east expansion aren't part of a Russian conspiracy, they're just people who would rather have wellfare-programs than war-spendding.

There was a time when a part of the spoils of imperialism was used to fund a few gibs for the masses. That's when the soc-dems played along. Then came the time when the gibs for the masses dried out and the masses didn't get anything, but also didn't loose anything. That resulted to political indifference. And now imperialism comes at a cost for the masses, via rising cost of living while standards of living are declining, and of course attacks on civil liberties. That's what motivates people to oppose NATO and proxy wars and so on.

The concerted attempt at using crazy Russia-gate-conspiracies to slander those people who express political opinions that are in line with their interests, is very undemocratic.
>>

 No.476191

Zigger narrative is just so fucking weak that humiliating them in a debate is like stealing a candy from a child kek.

All they can plausibly argue is that Maidan got coopted by the US with sponsored right-wing militias. But if they try to argue that Ukraine became a Nazi state they immediately get obliterated by the simple fact that the nazi militias got pushed away from the state apparatus after Maidan succeeded.

Ukraine is not a US puppet state, it doesn't needs to be. The anti-russkie element was a MAJORITY in Ukraine, especially among the educated political class.

So all ziggers are left with is fucking muh blood and soil narrative kek. Good luck convincing majority of leftists with this lmao.
>>

 No.476192

>>476190
>The people that are opposed to NATO
How can you oppose NATO when your actions DIRECTLY ENABLED the further expansion of NATO, zigger?
>>

 No.476193

>>476190
>The concerted attempt at using crazy Russia-gate-conspiracies to slander those people who express political opinions that are in line with their interests, is very undemocratic.
Being a paid russkie shill has nothing to do with democracy, zigger.

Politicians who took bribes from Macedon were fucking TRIED FOR TREASON in Athens.
>>

 No.476194

>>476191
so azov and kraken are not nazi militias?
>>

 No.476195

File: 1697906005542.jpeg ( 104.1 KB , 682x900 , wrvcaho3g8u11-70306010.jpeg )

>>476194
>nazi militias got pushed away from the state apparatus after Maidan succeeded
<so azov and kraken are not nazi militias?
zigger brain everyone
>>

 No.476196

>>476195
well azov and kraken figures are literally in the government
either you're ignoring that or you're trying to deny that they are nazis
>>

 No.476197

>>476196
so minor isolated nazi elements in the SBU and VSU make Ukraine a nazi state now?

what about when the leaders of the Pravy Sector got persecuted for terrorizing people?
>>

 No.476198

>>476187
>establishing a timeline of the events is not a CIA talking point.
It can be, propaganda also tries to obfuscate relevant context. Like the Ukraine conflict having been created by NATO east expansion.

>shelling of muh donbassians and burning of muh odessians started AFTER Russkia seized Crimea.

The US backed the extremist right in Ukraine and helped them into power. The population in Crimea absolutely despises these people, that's why Russia managed to get Crimea. The Russians wanted that strategical warm-water-port and the Crimeans wanted to remove them selves from the political influence of the Banderite right extremists. The Russians did not take crimea, the US gave them crimea.

The excuses why the Ukrainian state bombed their own citizens is just ethno-nationalists tying them selves into knots. They wanted bomb to Donbass to drive out the Russo-phile population out to Ukranianize the Donbass according to the vision of Banderites. I don't understand why you would support this, you're never going establish a moral high-ground for preaching on the basis of violent population displacement, nobody wants to be driven from their home. This shit with the hard-right proxies doesn't even win Geo-strategical power struggles anymore. Why are you makeing this your hill to die on ? it makes no sense.
>>

 No.476200

>>476188
I haven't really paid any attention to Haz and Hinkle recently, but the fact that you want to Russia-gate them so hard, makes me think i should check them out.

You have to understand that so many people who are solid leftists got slandered as "Kremlin-puppets", that such accusations can now be interpreted as an endorsement.
>>

 No.476201

>>476192
>How can you oppose NATO
I don't think that NATO would act as a defense pact if push comes to shove. I see Nato as an organization that lobbies for the arms industry and it's a tool for the US to impose it's foreign policy on Europe.

>your actions DIRECTLY ENABLED the further expansion of NATO

Lol, I wish my actions could shape global events, but thanks anyway.
>>

 No.476202

File: 1697908858440.png ( 11.58 KB , 300x365 , YOU.png )

>>476193
>Being a paid shill … blabla
I guess you speak from experience
>>

 No.476203

>>476198
>It can be, propaganda also tries to obfuscate relevant context.
<It is propaganda when you establish a timeline of the events
yeah zigga, reality itself is CIA propaganda kek, the force of gravity is fucking propaganda

>The US backed the extremist right in Ukraine

yes

>and helped them into power

no

US (together with ukro capitalists like Kolomoisky) used right-wingers as shock troops against the law enforcement apparatus

nothing more

>The population in Crimea absolutely despises these people, that's why Russia managed to get Crimea.

yes, crimeans didn't like Maidan

>The Russians did not take crimea, the US gave them crimea.

The US DID NOT ORCHESTRATE MAIDAN DUMBFUCK, IT COOPTED IT

>The excuses why the Ukrainian state bombed their own citizens

Is because russkie nazoids started an ethnic conflict in Donbass.

>Why are you makeing this your hill to die on ? it makes no sense.

the only one dying on the hill of muh blood and soil muh cultural genocide is you nazoid dumbfuck lol
>>

 No.476204

>>476197
>so minor isolated nazi elements in the SBU and VSU
<a little bit of Nazi-collaborationism is ok.
Nobody cares about Nazi-larp at the fringes, but giving these people power, weapons and funding, that's a different matter.

>make Ukraine a nazi state now?

Ukraine began looking like fascism once they started banning loads of political parties and talking about not holding elections.
>>

 No.476205

>>476200
>but the fact that you want to Russia-gate them so hard
keep crying victim as Hinkle goes to Russkia to speak at their main propaganda outlet kek
>>

 No.476206

>>476201
>I don't think that NATO would act as a defense pact if push comes to shove.
You don't understand how NATO members are OBLIGED to go to war with a state that attacks one of its members?

>Lol, I wish my actions could shape global events, but thanks anyway.

playing dumb zigga? Ok.

HOW IS RUSSIAN INVASION ANTI-NATO WHEN IT DIRECTLY ENABLED THE FURTHER EXPANSION OF NATO?
>>

 No.476207

>>476202
zigga, Hinkle is a fucking PROVEN russkie paid shill

even fucking Caleb tried to distance himself from him kek
>>

 No.476208

>>476206
>You don't understand how NATO members are OBLIGED to go to war with a state that attacks one of its members?
Who is going to make them? You don't understand that pacts are just pieces of paper.
>>

 No.476209

>>476203
>It is propaganda when you establish a timeline of the events
I think it's propaganda because you leave out relevant context, you know lying by omission.
>reality itself is CIA propaganda
TF. You must be in deep if you think CIA propaganda is reality itself.

>US (together with ukro capitalists like Kolomoisky) used right-wingers as shock troops against the law enforcement apparatus nothing more

<Us used right-wingers to overthrow the Ukrainian state
Kudos for admitting to the CIA color revultion regime change operation
Now go listen to the phone-call with Victoria Nuland where they talk about who to put in power.

>The US DID NOT ORCHESTRATE MAIDAN, IT COOPTED IT

and that set off a motion of events that split off Crimea from Ukraine. And made it fall into Russia's lab

>The other side started an ethnic conflict

Nah it was definitely the US backing the Bandera-wing, that set this off.
>>

 No.476210

>>476204
>Nobody cares about Nazi-larp at the fringes
but that's literally what Ukraine has lol

>but giving these people power, weapons and funding

how about you look into the mirror dumbfuck

russkies prop their right wingers too, to such an extent that it literally backfired on retards kek

those nazoids wouldn't be so big IF IT WASN'T FOR A FUCKING WAR IN DONBASS YOU DUMBFUCK

>Ukraine began looking like fascism once they started banning loads of political parties and talking about not holding elections.

So Ukraine wasn't "looking like fascism" before Russkie Invasion lol?
>>

 No.476211

>>476208
>Who is going to make them?
The US and its pro-war allies? lol

>You don't understand that pacts are just pieces of paper.

holy shit zigga quit embarrassing yourself

yeah, NATO pact is just a piece of paper kek
>>

 No.476212

>>476209
>TF. You must be in deep if you think CIA propaganda is reality itself.
pretending to be retarded zigga?

It is YOU who thinks objective reality itself (ie a timeline of the events) is propaganda lol.

>Kudos for admitting to the CIA color revultion regime change operation

Yes, the US helped a regime change, from pro-russkie Yanuk to pro-west post-Maidan government. Problems, zigga?

>and that set off a motion of events that split off Crimea from Ukraine. And made it fall into Russia's lab

yes. Problems, zigga?

>Nah it was definitely the US backing the Bandera-wing, that set this off.

What "Nah" dumbfuck?

Russia started AN ETHNIC CONFLICT IN DONBASS as a reaction to the pro-russkie Yanuk getting the boot as a result of US sponsored Maidan lol.

It was the US FIRST that acted to undermine the pro-russkie status quo, but it was Russkia that STARTED AN ETHNIC CONFLICT FIRST KEK.

That's just the reality zigga, you're gonna DIE on this hill.
>>

 No.476213

>>476206
>You don't understand how NATO members are OBLIGED
You're a fool, nobody is going to "oblige" the US to do something they don't want to do. You're not going to shackle a superpower with treaty-papers.

The original point of NATO was about creating military containment against the USSR, all those NATO treaty clauses were in alignment with US strategy during that time. However today US strategy has changed, they want sacrificial pawns that can be sacrificed to implicate rival powers in costly wars to weaken them. In that context the mutual defense clauses run counter to US strategy. The US wants to sacrifice those pawns precisely because they don't want to send US troops. If the NATO treaty obligations collide with US strategy, the treaty obligations will get bulldozed out of the way.
>>

 No.476214

Ziggas only problem is that somebody DARED to undermine the Yanuk government kek. And that justifies starting a fucking ethnic conflict in Donbass that spiraled out into the fucking all out war with hundreds of thousands of casualties and led to further expansion of NATO kek.

NEVER DEBATE ANYONE ZIGGA LOL. YOUR OPPONENT WOULD WIPE THE FLOOR WITH YOUR ASS KEK.
>>

 No.476215

>>476213
>You're a fool, nobody is going to "oblige" the US to do something they don't want to do.
US is a hegemon in an alliance, dumbfuck.

It would be the US with other militarist members (like UK and Poland) that "obliges" other members, dumbfuck.

Good luck ignoring """a piece of paper""" THEN LOL

>The original point of NATO was about creating military containment against the USSR

It doesn't matter what the stated "original point" was

NATO is the offensive military alliance of the CORE capitalist states

keep coping dumbfuck
>>

 No.476216

>>476207
>Hinkle is a fucking PROVEN russkie paid shill even fucking Caleb tried to distance himself from him.
Fine, maybe i'll look into it.

There was such an insane amount of Russia-gate nonsense going on where everybody who disagreed with mainline politics on some issue got accused of being a "Russian bot". Anti-witch-hunting heuristics had to be switched on.

I consider the chances that this particular accusation you are making now, turns out to not be a political smear, to be very small, still.
>>

 No.476217

>>476210
No the Ukro nazis got funding, weapons and training from the CIA, and turned into a paramilitary force.

From what i could gather it seems that the Russians sided with "soviet-soc-dems" in Donetsk and Luhansk. Basically people who had politics similar to Belarus.

>blame the Russians for Ukraine abandoning bourgeois democracy.

No. You either uphold democracy or you don't.
>>

 No.476219

>>476217
>No the Ukro nazis got funding, weapons and training from the CIA, and turned into a paramilitary force.
So?

>From what i could gather blah-blah

you "gathered" it wrong

russkia funds its own righoutid freicorp paras the same as ukraine

>blame the Russians for Ukraine abandoning bourgeois democracy.

zygoid, I don't give a FUCK about parliamentarism

you're the one who is crying about muh proper parliamentary procedures dumbfuck
>>

 No.476221

>>476217
Basically your position that it's okay to start ethnic conflict because of the violated parliamentary procedures kek.
>>

 No.476223

>>476212
>I'm the arbiter of what is objective reality
No, fuck off.

>the US helped a regime change

<semantics
whatever, this is what started it
>>

 No.476225

>>476216
hey dumbfuck, you understand that fucking Maupoid is a russkie paid shill too?

that's what fucking hilarious when he tries to distance himself from fucking Hinkle lol

fucking fashoid retarded spergs kek
>>

 No.476226

>>476223
>I'm the arbiter of what is objective reality
nazoid, you understand that there can be only ONE OBJECTIVE reality, right?

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE TIMELINE OF THE EVENTS DUMBFUCKOID

>whatever, this is what started it

I got you, violated parliamentary procedures justifies starting ethnic conflict lol
>>

 No.476227

>>476215
>NATO obligations are a one-way-street, that exclusively benefit Washington.
That's probably true, but then it makes sense for other countries to NATO-exit if the shit hits the fan.

>>476219
I have no reason to believe any of your accusations.

>>476221
>loaded question
You want to have an excuse to be able to abandon democracy by appealing to a boogeyman. Like some sort of good weather democracy, that can't be used if it rains.
The fact is that it's not a democracy if you can turn it on and off. It's only a democracy if it's the bed-rock of all political power.
>>

 No.476228

>>476226
>you understand that there can be only ONE OBJECTIVE reality, right?
Yes and you're narratives don't reflect that singular objective reality.

>violated parliamentary procedures

banning political parties and trying to abolish elections is a little more than violating procedures, it's abolishing democracy

>starting ethnic conflict

The US invaded Ukraine with convert-warfare CIA-forces and that started an ethnic conflict by supporting ethno-nationalists with weapons, funds and training.
>>

 No.476229

>>476227
>NATO obligations are a one-way-street, that exclusively benefit Washington.
That's not what I said dumbfuck.

NATO benefits core capitalist countries.

>it makes sense for other countries to NATO-exit if the shit hits the fan.

it makes no sense dumbfuck

when shit hits the fan everyone would understand that you need to pick a side dumbfuck

that's why it is called world wars and why even Canada and Australia took part in them dumbfuck

>I have no reason to believe any of your accusations.

meh. whatever, zygoid

>You want to have an excuse to be able to abandon democracy by appealing to a boogeyman.

parliamentarism is not democracy, nazoid

democracy has a class character

parliamentarism doesn't give you an excuse to start an ethnic war, dumbfuck liberoid
>>

 No.476230

>>476225
>Maupoid is a russkie paid shill
You are making an accusation, and there is no reason for me to believe you. This stuff gets used for smear tactics so frequently that my default assumption has to be that it's a smear until proven to the contrary.
>>

 No.476231

>>476228
>Yes and you're narratives don't reflect that singular objective reality.
does shelling of donbass started before russkia started shit in donbass or not?

>banning political parties and trying to abolish elections is a little more than violating procedures, it's abolishing democracy

elections are not democracy lib

parliamentarism doesn't give you an excuse to start an ethnic war

>The US invaded Ukraine with convert-warfare CIA-forces and that started an ethnic conflict by supporting ethno-nationalists with weapons, funds and training.

The US violated "proper" parliamentary politics.

It was Russkia who started the ethnic war.
>>

 No.476232

>>476230
>You are making an accusation, and there is no reason for me to believe you.
I don't give a fuck what you believe lol.

Why do you even care if he takes money from russkies or not lol?
>>

 No.476237

>>476229
>NATO benefits core capitalist countries.
I think the core has shrunk and Europe ain't in it anymore

>when shit hits the fan everyone would understand that you need to pick a side

If the neocons throw enough shit at the fan to start WW3, the best strategy is to go neutral.

>parliamentarism is not democracy

It's bourgeois democracy. I agree that something like sortitian democracy would have much better representation and should be considered more democratic. But it's intellectually dishonest to say that bourgeois democracy has zero democratic characteristics.
>democracy has a class character
like i said bourgeois democracy

>to start an ethnic war

The US funded trained and armed fascistic paramilitary groups in Ukraine that tried to do precisely that.
And the end result seems to be that Ukraine gets carved up, you know that's not the first time where playing with ethno-nationalists had this result.
>>

 No.476242

>>476237
>I think the core has shrunk and Europe ain't in it anymore
So why didn't they leave NATO then kek? Why did Scandinavians joined NATO then recently lol? Something just doesn't add up zigga kek.


>If the neocons throw enough shit at the fan to start WW3, the best strategy is to go neutral.

Sometimes you just can't be neutral zigga lol.

>It's bourgeois democracy.

Parliamentarism is not democracy, lib.

>But it's intellectually dishonest to say that bourgeois democracy has zero democratic characteristics.

Nah, it's dishonest to say parliamentarism has democratic characteristics. It has only oligarchic characteristics.

>like i said bourgeois democracy

like i said is NO DEMOCRACY

>The US funded trained and armed fascistic paramilitary groups in Ukraine that tried to do precisely that.

no, it funded them to overthrow Yanuk government

It was Russkia who started the ethnic war.
>>

 No.476244

>>476237
>democratic characteristics
>more democratic
>less democratic
Not the dishonest charlatan you're arguing with, but I don't like this kind of democracy-is-measures language because it falls right into the etymological trap created by the anti-democrats from the late 18th century. A dictatorship is a dictatorship and an oligarchy is an oligarchy. Neither are democracy, and choosing your rulers is inherently not people's self-rule. Many empires and kingdoms throughout history have elected their rulers; that doesn't make their form of governance any more democratic than primogeniture.
>>

 No.476245

>>476231
>I'm trying to manufacture excuses for Kiev/iyv letting the Ukro-faascists shell the Donbass with the intent of causing ethnic-displacement.
Yeah and you're not succeeding.

>elections are not democracy

when bourgeois countries abolish bourgeois democracy, like banning lots of parties and doing away with elections , that's called going open dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, that's what Marxist theorists usually consider the beginning of hard fascism.

>The US violated "proper" parliamentary politics.

CIA regime change color revolutions, are covert invasions, not minor procedural violations of political process.

>>476232
>Why do you even care
What i care about is that there are political witch-hunts against leftists. There is political repression that uses accusations of foreign interference as a pretext. As long as that persists, my default assumption is going to be that all such accusations are politically motivated smears.
>>

 No.476247

>>476245
>I'm trying to manufacture excuses for Kiev/iyv letting the Ukro-faascists shell the Donbass with the intent of causing ethnic-displacement.
talking to yourself again? lol

>when bourgeois countries abolish bourgeois democracy, like banning lots of parties and doing away with elections , that's called going open dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, that's what Marxist theorists usually consider the beginning of hard fascism.

you're libpilled lol

plenty of """bourgeois democracies""" throughout history banned parties lol

>CIA regime change color revolutions, are covert invasions, not minor procedural violations of political process.

minor or major, who the fuck cares lib?

does major violation of parliamentarism gives you the right to start an ethnic conflict?

>What i care about is that there are political witch-hunts against leftists.

Maupoid is not leftist.
>>

 No.476248

>>476247
>Maupoid is not leftist.
at least no more leftist than Mussolini was
>>

 No.476255

>>476242
>So why didn't they leave NATO then?
I think that during the Ukraine war major fissures have formed in Nato and it looks like Turkey could potentially splitt off.

>Why did Scandinavians joined NATO then recently

They didn't ratify NATO entry with a referendum, that means they believe that the population does not support it. Polling of young men showed overwhelming opposition. So don't expect to be able to mobilize these countries for a NATO war.

>Sometimes you just can't be neutral

Lets compare what happened to different powers in the Ukraine conflict.

India went the neutral route, they got weapons from the Americans, cheap oil/gas from the Russians, and a sweet-heart deal on consumer-goods-imports from the Chinese.

Europe went the route of taking sides, they got energy shortages from absent Russian trade, a knife in the back from the Americans, and a loss of diplomatic prestige from the Chinese.

The facts are clear, taking side = punishment, staying neutral = rewards. So neutrality is in fact the only viable option.

>Nah, it's dishonest to say parliamentarism has democratic characteristics. It has only oligarchic characteristics.

Yes electoral parliamentarism tends towards oligarchy/plutocracy, its still not open dictator ship. You can't use leftist critique of bourgeoisie democracy to white-wash Ukraine banning political parties and trying to stop elections. There is a difference between bourgeois democracy and fascism.

>no, it funded them to overthrow Yanuk government

I agree the US most certainly didn't intent to sponsor ethnic-displacement, when they funded fascistic paramilitary groups in Ukraine. The US wanted to get rid of Victor Yanukovych because he didn't play privatize Ukraine with the IMF. But that doesn't change the facts. The US did fund ukro-fashos that did try to do a big ethno-crime. That raises the question, why can't the US's "foreign policy arm" to use a polite expression, try to work with more sensible people. It's the same thing in Israel, why does it have to be a horror show ?

>who started the ethnic war.

The US did when they propped up the uko-fascist paramilitary groups.
>>

 No.476256

>>476244
>Not the dishonest charlatan you're arguing with, but I don't like this kind of democracy-is-measures language because it falls right into the etymological trap created by the anti-democrats from the late 18th century. A dictatorship is a dictatorship and an oligarchy is an oligarchy. Neither are democracy, and choosing your rulers is inherently not people's self-rule. Many empires and kingdoms throughout history have elected their rulers; that doesn't make their form of governance any more democratic than primogeniture.
I understand your objection and agree with it to a significant extend, however I'm contrasting bourgeois democracy, with open bourgeois dictatorship i.e. Fascism. Those are materially different, especially when it comes to the rate of people dying of non-natural causes.
>>

 No.476257

>>476255
>I think that during the Ukraine war major fissures have formed in Nato and it looks like Turkey could potentially splitt off.
What is the point of talking about "ifs" when Turkey is still a NATO member?

Answer: only to cope lol.

>They didn't ratify NATO entry with a referendum, that means they believe that the population does not support it.

>So don't expect to be able to mobilize these countries for a NATO war.
Wait, you think something wouldn't happen in class society if the lower classes don't want it to happen kek?

You are literally libpilled beyond belief kek. What do you think a state is dumbfuck?

>Europe went the route of taking sides, they got energy shortages from absent Russian trade, a knife in the back from the Americans, and a loss of diplomatic prestige from the Chinese.

EU is a fucking major imperialist player dumbfuck. It has interests all over the fucking globe and obviously it thinks it can better protect them while being in NATO.

and EU is a prime example of when a side CAN'T STAY NEUTRAL, sometimes you just need to cut your losses and pick a side

>The facts are clear, taking side = punishment, staying neutral = rewards. So neutrality is in fact the only viable option.

Holy shit you are dumb.

>Yes electoral parliamentarism tends towards oligarchy/plutocracy, its still not open dictator ship. You can't use leftist critique of bourgeoisie democracy to white-wash Ukraine banning political parties and trying to stop elections.

Imagine crying for parliamentarism and calling yourself a marxist kek.

Anyway, even on your bourgeois legal grounds, Ukraine is under invasion fighting an enemy military force so ordinary parliamentary procedures do not apply.

>There is a difference between bourgeois democracy and fascism.

If we're not talking about radical fascism of the German variety, then you exaggerate the difference as the lib you are lol.

>The US wanted to get rid of Victor Yanukovych because he didn't play privatize Ukraine with the IMF.

No dumbfuck, they wanted to get rid of Yanuk because he war pro-russkie.

They couldn't give two fucks about fucking IMF.

>But that doesn't change the facts. The US did fund ukro-fashos that did try to do a big ethno-crime.

what "ethno-crime" dumbfuck? helping to overthrow pro-russkie Yanuk lol?

>why can't the US's "foreign policy arm" to use a polite expression, try to work with more sensible people.

because they needed fucking shock troopers capable of open violence lol?

It honestly astonishes me how dumb you are. Literally below 50 autism score muppet.

>The US did when they propped up the uko-fascist paramilitary groups.

You can't claim that US started an ethnic conflict by violating ukro parliamentarism, if you don't claim at the same time that violated parliamentarism gives right to Russkia to start an ethnic conflict lol.

Unique IPs: 28

[Return][Catalog][Top][Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ overboard / sfw / alt / cytube] [ leftypol / b / WRK / hobby / tech / edu / ga / ent / music / 777 / posad / i / a / R9K / dead ] [ meta ]
ReturnCatalogTopBottomHome