/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>477100
Yeah, absolutely! The liberation of Guayana Esequiba by the revolutionary forces of Chavism is one step towards a domino effect of world revolution. Therefore, Maduro must take actions now, lest Exxon will take over Venezuela's massive oil reserves and plunder its other natural resources.

>>477101
>Imperialist invasion to own the libs
Based, next we need pogroms for those Guyanians, how dare they stand in the way of revolution, it's Nazism I tell you!

>>477101
>We have to kill you and steal your oil to stop the Americans from killing you and stealing your oil.
God bless tsnkies

>>477104
the only imperialism in guyana is american imperialism, seethe cracker lib

>>477100
During the Spanish colonial rule over Venezuela, Essequibo was part of Venezuela. However in 1899 a international court decided that Essequibo was going to be part of Guyana, which at that time, was a British colony.

So the question about historic legitimacy is moot, either way it's an artificial boarder drawn by long dead colonial empires, over a century ago. Tho in general there is a preference for avoiding redrawing boarders in order to avoid stirring shit up where people get killed. To be fair to Venezuela, in 1966 there was a nullification of the 1899 arbitration.

Venezuelan capitalism is not in the imperial stage, and it's somewhat strange that people who decided these borders were from far away lands. So it's hard to argue that the Venezuelan referendum should weigh less. After-all that's the people that actually live there. Why would they have any less say where they draw the lines on their maps.

From a materialist perspective, Essequibo has loads of mineral wealth and in 2015 Exxon Mobil discovered lots of oil in the part of the Atlantic which connects to it. That's why they want it.

I don't know what to make of this.

Socialism by 2050!

>>477123
>Socialism by 2050!
I tried to find a calculator that can do the factorial of 2050.
But if i may ask why so pessimistic ?

>>477106
>It's only imperialism when you do it.
I see, all that oil is being stolen in the name of revolution!

>>477127
>It's only imperialism when
I'm not that anon you replied to but:
<It's only imperialism when the imperial bourgeoisie does it.
Is how it's define in Marxist theory.

I could accept your view if you accused Venezuela of stealing the oil, that's a plausible interpretation. But you can't say that Venezuela is doing an imperialism because they are not in the imperial stage of capitalism, there is zero imperial finance capital in Venezuela. Venezuela isn't even capable of controlling it's own currency.

>>477128
>It's okay to overthrow governments, they have centuries old tangential connections to anglos!
If the US overthrew shitty resource extraction dictatorships and replaced them with pleasant developmental social democrat governments, i alongside with most leftists would be cheering for "materially progressive imperialism." But since that's not on offer and never has been, i guess crappy petroleum socialism with Venezuelan characteristics has to do.

We're not taking sides based on arbitrary bullshit like you suggest and consider "Anglo" as a category error. We're trying to be somewhat principled about supporting what ever leads to a net improvement of the material conditions for the workers and of course increased political empowerment of workers.

Before you miss-interpret this, I'm still undecided whether or not Venezuela should be supported in this endeavor.

Venezuela has a much nicer political system than Guyana, with their people's assemblies scoring many democracy points. I'm still trying to figure out if Essequibo would get this "political bonus". And of course there is the question whether the population in Essequibo gets an economic bonus from the resource exploitation activities as well. We're also asking questions like will this cause bloodshed ?

You don't get to complain about socialists never supporting US vassal regimes based on some arbitrary hatred. Most of the time the US picks vassal regimes that are utter shit, that create conditions that are hostile to human survival. US foreign policy influence correlates with negative human outcomes, so don't pretend the US hasn't earned it's bad geopolitical reputation.

>>477127
that's correct, socialist states like venezuela by definition cannot be imperialist

>>477131
>Steal oil to make more money.
>Uhhhh it's not imperialism because uhhh they don't have monopoly capitalism or some shit.
The eternal tankie.

>>477137
This is a cop out. If you're going to argue that this is imperialism, you have to explain how they are able to do that without imperial capital.

>>477100
you don't get it, it's called national self-determination (don't confuse it with all that other bad nationalist stuff)

Long live the Essequibo People's Republic! Self-determination for the essequibans (decided on in Caracas lol)!

Seeing normoids putting the Guyana flag in their social media handles and chanting Slava Guyana will probably push me over the edge tbqh.

>>477162
>Self-determination for the essequibans
Strangely enough ExxonMobile stock dropped when Maduro claimed the Essequibo oil for Venezuela.
Why would that happen if the Essequibans were going to get the oil that they were going to nationally self determine.

If the Essequibans don't get all the resource wealth and it goes to some multinational oil-baron instead and it'll become the Essequibo ExonMobile's Republic, then Venezuela might as well have it. The Venezuelan socdems will probably use it to fund social welfare with it.

>>477163
>Seeing normoids putting the Guyana flag in their social media handles and chanting Slava Guyana will probably push me over the edge tbqh.
Yeah that's probably coming, tho assume that many of the Slava [current thing] accounts are propaganda bot sock-puppets.

>>477165
>The Venezuelan socdems will probably use it to fund social welfare with it.
Ok, Venezuelan plebs get the bread without circus, and "essequibans" get what? war?

They should look at downbassians to see what they get lol.

More blood for the multipolar God.

Humanity is so fucked lol.

SOUTHCOM to Conduct Flight Over Guyana
T
>In collaboration with the Guyana Defence Force (GDF), the U.S. Southern Command (USSOUTHCOM) will conduct flight operations within Guyana on December 7. This exercise builds upon routine engagement and operations to enhance security partnership between the United States and Guyana, and to strengthen regional cooperation.
https://web.archive.org/web/20231210031648/https://gy.usembassy.gov/southcom-to-conduct-flight-over-guyana/
About to be some Kuwait invasion 2, electric boogaloo all up on tankies.

>>477131
>Venezuela isn't imperialist because Lenin says Capitalism has stages.
But Marx didn't. This is why Marxist Leninism is gross revisionism. Where capitalism exists ALL of Marxist critique applies.
Capitalism requires original capital (mistranslated as primitive capital). Basically it needs someone, somewhere get completely ripped off, no wage, no nothing

>>477166
You gave me the impulse to re-examine the situation again. And i have to admit that i don't really know what game is being played.

I do know what happens to countries that get taken over by multinational oil-barons. Those are going to determine that the political rights of the locals are a "political risk" that is threatening profitability. And then the government gets replaced with a military hunta. They will also determine that the country should not have any economy that is not totally depend on the oil industry because that could result in "misaligned economic incentives". What the oil multinationals have done to countries like that is so bad that people call it "the resource curse".

There is a possibility that Venezuela isn't really trying to get Essequibo, they might just be trying to fuck with ExxonMobile's plans to get it. They might not want a hard right extraction-vassal on their boarder. They might be aiming for a situation where it's more trouble than it's worth for ExxonMobile. After-all Venezuela is not likely to outright win a military contest and lay claim to the resources, if the US gets involved in this. But they could easily frustrate the ability of ExxonMobile to conduct extraction operations.

>and "essequibans" get what?
Is there any outcome where they don't draw the ass-card ?
Based on the history of multinational resource extraction capitalism, they might be better off working out a deal with the Venezuelans. If my speculation is correct and Venezuela's priority is keeping ExxonMobile out of their backyard, they might get a really favorable deal.

Here is an interesting take

The Venezuelan-Guyanese Dispute Is A Classic Security Dilemma

<Venezuelan policymakers apparently calculated that the US has a greater need at present for their country’s oil exports ahead of next year’s election and as suspicions circulate about de facto jointly led Russian-Saudi OPEC+’s strategic intentions than for oil exports from Guyana a few years down the road.

<With them in mind, these same policymakers then took note of how much the US’ stockpiles have been depleted over the past 22 months of proxy war against Russia, which led them to conclude that it’s comparatively weaker than at any time in recent memory. Accordingly, they seem to have wagered that Venezuela’s role in ensuring the US’ immediate energy security interests and that country’s newfound military limitations created the best opportunity yet for them to press their claims to Essequibo.

<The reason why they didn’t want to leave the conflict frozen was because they concluded that the US would inevitably exploit Exxon’s offshore oil investments in disputed waters as the pretext for deploying a permanent military presence that could then lead to a multitude of hybrid threats to Venezuela. It wasn’t until after the US eased the sanctions and its military limitations were exposed that policymakers realized that they had the unique opportunity to finally resolve the security dilemma over Essequibo.

https://eestieest.com/the-venezuelan-guyanese-dispute-is-a-classic-security-dilemma/