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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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 No.478430

https://farside.link/invidious/watch?v=vTzVSNfaGvs

This guy did a decent video, on an attempt at introducing a internet ID-law
<government ID for accessing a website (initially porn-sites).

It's hiding behind deceptive legislative speak.
<think of the children while we attack your civil liberties

Big tech companies apparently are supporting this.
<so it might spread to other parts of the internet as well

Obviously none of these people really care about the welfare of children, or else we'd be living in a very different world. They might be targeting porn because they think it's a way to get a foot in the door for an ID-access-wall. Or they might actually be trying to identify people's porn habits in order to facilitate discrimination based on sexuality. Even if that's not the intention right now, it'll definitely be the result. We don't live in a dark age theocratic society where the church regulates sex, because it's currently not possible. All the puritanical bullshit will come flooding back the moment it becomes possible. Every ruling class seeks to control sex.

The Internet ID stuff will get hacked so even if you're a gullible fool that believes in this.
<think of all the identity theft

Obviously there will always be a technical way to bypass this, which means that it would also be an incentive for people to level up their tech skills. Even if most people end up doing that and this flops, it's still dystopian nightmare fuel that somebody is trying to make this happen.

Obviously online ID verification is not compatible with either privacy or freedom of expression.
It's a lever for governments to track or censor people based on their ID-logins. In principle it shouldn't be possible to make these laws in the first place because they're not compatible with legal-root-documents (US-constitution/bill of rights for example) in most countries.
There are a surprising amount of stateless people that can't get IDs, it would be beyond cruel to cut these people off.

Maybe it's time to abolish IDs altogether. It certainly was useful for the analog-age but maybe not for the digital age. It's not difficult to make all the public services function without identifying people. (I have thought this through and will elaborate on request)

—
We still should answer the question about brotecting the children, even if this is not related to this topic.
There would be foundational questions

should children be separated from adults ?
<Whats the evidence pro and contra ?

Shouldn't this be the responsibility of the parents ?
<Like setting up parental control systems, and paying attention what children do online.

Should we bring back offline childhood ?
<No screens until 6yrs
<Only LAN-parties until 12yrs
<Should we give children a computer with a very simple "retro" architecture ?

Simple computers are not capable of doing anything that could harm children, so there is no need to shackle it in any way, so it'll be a fun toy that gets played with not a boring educational prop that ends up in a drawer. It should still be capable enough to teach children the fundamentals of computing.
For example something like this
https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Commander_X16
https://www.commanderx16.com/
(I'm not knowledgeable about retro computing, and I'm linking this project because it's the only one i know about)
>>

 No.478437

>>478430
>Shouldn't this be the responsibility of the parents ?
Right-wing talking points are not welcome here. There is no such thing as personal responsibility, everything bad that happens is always somebody else's fault and we need more government to fix it.
>>

 No.478438

>>478430
Straight from the Pentagon.
Tracking access to porn is just a false pretense. They use this method all the time, and we've got to get rid of them.
>>

 No.478439

imo, kids accessing porn is a non issue. They have urges just like adults and we should stop ttesting kids like para-dimensional creatyres that need protection from any slight vulgarity.

Locking kids away from the cyber space and mest space to protect their innocence is why we always have unnecessary moral crises.
>>

 No.478441

>>478439
t. porn addict
>>

 No.478442

>>478441
t. reactive prude
>>

 No.478443

>>478437
So you want to send a social-worker paired up with a techie to children's homes to teach them tech-literacy, digital-hygiene and internet-etiquette ?

I don't know about the logistical aspect, but that could work.
>>

 No.478444

>>478438
>Straight from the Pentagon.
>Tracking access to porn is just a false pretense.
Could be the Pentagon behind the curtain. Though what's their motivation exactly ?

The pentagon is for fighting wars and what not. So is this some kind of digital-nationalism because they're preparing for a massive war ? They want online-ID to fence people in and then everybody on this side of the fence is a friend and everybody on the other side is a foe ?

>They use this method all the time, and we've got to get rid of them.
Well technically this would be deceptive legislation seeking uninformed consent.
The intent of the law contradicts the letter of the law, which at least in principle should invalidate it.

It should be possible to raise public awareness about this praxis and make it harder to use this trick.
>>

 No.478460

>Obviously none of these people really care about the welfare of children, or else we'd be living in a very different world.


Adults never cared about kids.
At best, kids are lucky to be seen as pets.
Adults are pathologically incapable of respecting the individuality of anyone under thirty.
They see them as a threat.
>>

 No.478461

>>478430
western gamers are a lowly class of westoid.

The Chinese Communist laws on game time limits, ID, etc., and such are the model to be followed
>>

 No.478462

>>478461
Having a bunch of rulers tell you how you're allowed to use your free time is not communism.
>>

 No.478463

>>478461
cringe.

but ok if thats the way you wanna play, extend it to gambling, alcohol, and TV.
>>

 No.478472

>>478460
Maybe some people are like that, but you're are overgeneralizing. It's true some people got bitter with age, but others got wise and remained considerate.

>>478461
>The Chinese Communist laws on game time limits, ID, etc., and such are the model to be followed
The Chinese gaming law was repealed. Also if you try to follow the Chinese model in the west, you'll be up against fierce opposition because the western ruling class really would not like having to submit to a communist party.

Keep in mind that the Chinese are clamping down on internet freedom because it serves the purpose of protectionism so they can grow their own media-power. That's neither necessary, not reasonable in the west, because western media power is unrivaled.

China will definitely have civil liberty struggles in the future once they reach that level of development. So it doesn't really compare to the west, because we already had civil liberty struggles in the past and we should not go backwards on that.
>>

 No.478474

>>478463
>cringe.
while i agree with that sentiment
>but ok if thats the way you wanna play, extend it to gambling, alcohol, and TV.
<if you try to ban my hobby, i will try to ban yours
Please don't that battle will end up causing all the hobbies getting banned

Focus on the good fight to keep your hobby free.
>>

 No.478478

>>478472
>The Chinese gaming law was repealed.
source?
>>

 No.478479

>>478478
I read it in a article about the Chinese stock market. Sorry I didn't save the link.

It's not surprising tho, Chinese laws are ephemeral, they try out new laws as if they were trying on new outfits.
>>

 No.478492

>>478479
The law is still in place.
>>

 No.478501

>>478472
>Maybe some people are like that, but you're are overgeneralizing. It's true some people got bitter with age, but others got wise and remained considerate.

The amount of maturation that adults do nowadays is declining.

Look at all the generational labelling.
Adults, regardless of era, always whine about "kids these days".
They get upsetif not annoyed or awkward about kids having ther own generational pastimes.
>>

 No.478502

>>478474
We should have 18 year olds be allowed to smoke and use guns again.
>>

 No.478515

>>478501
>kids having ther own generational pastimes.
except that they don't for the most part, it's the same pastimes expressed through different technologies.

>>478502
if you want to bring back smoking, as in inhaling pleasurable fumes, you have to improve upon it. Like what vaping tried but mostly failed to do. There has to be some biological advantage over not smoking, so that people seek it out because it's advantageous, not because they have an addiction monkey on their back.

Some research into ancient African tribes suggest that smoking may have improved the odds of surviving starvation periods, because it dulled the hunger-pains which had a calming effect and that reduced starvation induced body atrophy.

Smoking used to have a survival bonus, but it doesn't anymore. Vapor inhalation might be a good delivery system for beneficial molecules of sorts.

Gun access should probably be based on impulse-control. So there needs to be a irritation test of sorts and if you can withstand sufficient intensity and duration, you're granted a hot metal projector.
>>

 No.478516

>>478515
>except that they don't for the most part, it's the same pastimes expressed through different technologies.

Thats fair point. In fact, I can say without a doubt that childhood is grossly pathologically overrated and over-stereotyped.

Most adults are too ignorant to notice because pop culture portrays children in the same goofy lighthearted manner.

Any serious sentiments are dismissed as cringey and/or arrogant.
>>

 No.478538

>>478515
>if you want to bring back smoking, as in inhaling pleasurable fumes, you have to improve upon it. Like what vaping tried but mostly failed to do. There has to be some biological advantage over not smoking, so that people seek it out because it's advantageous, not because they have an addiction monkey on their back.


18 yos were banned from smoking over "vaping concerns".

>Gun access should probably be based on impulse-control. So there needs to be a irritation test of sorts and if you can withstand sufficient intensity and duration, you're granted a hot metal projector.

Government banned 18 yos from ahving guns due to mass shootings. Yet most mass shootings were initiated by those over twenty.
But I agree with your idea of comoetency testting for gun ownership.

In fact, I think guns should be limited only to hunting amd self defense.

Most violent crimes often involve bats, posions, and knives.
>>

 No.478539

>>478462
Unironically, regulating freetime is a capitalist venture.
>>

 No.478569

>>478516
>childhood is overrated
If we go back to how it was in the 18th century, you probably will get loads of people who feel like they got cheated out of a proper childhood and they will drive political change to undo it.

>>478538
>18 yos were banned from smoking over "vaping concerns".
Vaping was originally invented to help people quit smoking, or at least be a less health-damaging alternative. It never aspired to doing something more. It's still addictive and it lacks upsides. Also the tobacco industry lobbied against vaping.

>Government banned 18 yos from ahving guns due to mass shootings. Yet most mass shootings were initiated by those over twenty.
It should be possible to prevent mass-shootings without destroying US gun culture. However most of the people who want to defend gun culture do not appear to be interested in solving this. Like inventing a low-cost weapons detector that actually works and integrates into schools and shopping malls.

>In fact, I think guns should be limited only to hunting amd self defense.
that's fair, though socialists would try to form people's militias and put the guns into that context.

>Most violent crimes often involve bats, posions, and knives.
This is not the argument for allowing people to have guns you think it is, it's a call to ban those things as well.
>>

 No.478572

>>478569
>If we go back to how it was in the 18th century, you probably will get loads of people who feel like they got cheated out of a proper childhood and they will drive political change to undo it.



I think ypure referring to the nineteenth century whe they started using child labor in factories.


Also, childhood as we know it us a modern invention.
Children ironically back then probably had more adventure and opportunities to advance.
But what Im saying is that childhood as the cultural phenomenom we have now is obsessed over too much.

Kids cannot make mistakes without adults pathologising them.
God forbid kids have cynical thoughts or sexual desire or gain racial awareness.

This obsession with innocence is why people fuck up in ther teens, twenties, and thrities.

Parents, teachers, pastors, etc smother and euphemise so much that immaturity is extended.

The cuurent state of life in your teens and twenties is abnormal.
>>

 No.478573

>>478569
>Vaping was originally invented to help people quit smoking, or at least be a less health-damaging alternative. It never aspired to doing something more. It's still addictive and it lacks upsides. Also the tobacco industry lobbied against vaping.

Im well aware of that. Tobacco was butthurt about vaping being th new kid in town.
It isnt even just that. Vaping is looked down on as "faggy" just because it uses electronic strip to emulate smoke rather than an oversized stick of tobacco. (Aesthetic conservatism at its "finest".)

>It should be possible to prevent mass-shootings without destroying US gun culture. However most of the people who want to defend gun culture do not appear to be interested in solving this. Like inventing a low-cost weapons detector that actually works and integrates into schools and shopping malls.


NRA and other gun rights activists call anything they dont like "communism" and assume any mass shooting is "crisis actors" or "lack of spanking."

They dont care about solving the problem.

Nither do the gun control activists.

Also schools nationwide are adding metal detectors.

>that's fair, though socialists would try to form people's militias and put the guns into that context.


The American Constitution states that fitizens have the right to have a well maintained militia.
However, our current era of American adults prove too immature for that.

>This is not the argument for allowing people to have guns you think it is, it's a call to ban those things as well.

Fair point. England banned knives.
>>

 No.478577

>>478569
>most of the people who want to defend gun culture do not appear to be interested in solving this
Gun crime is not a gun problem it is a demographic problem. Take away the guns and it will turn into a knife and acid problem. But you can't admit that because pretending that all humans are fundamentally equal is an essential part of your moral framework, i.e. you would rather put yourself in physical danger than be called the R-word. So you say stupid things like "the other side doesn't have an answer" when we do, you just don't want to hear it.
>>

 No.478587

>>478572
<short childhood leads to
>gain racial awareness.
At best that's false consciousness and worst it's racism.
If what you are claiming is true it means that you are inadvertently making a very strong argument for long childhoods.
>>

 No.478588

>>478587
This is not what I mean at all. Im saying that our modern setup of childhood seems more concerned about blocking kids off from the real world for the sake of "innocence". This makes life difficult when they come of age.
Also, long childhood isnt really a goid thing especially nowadays.
>>

 No.478589

>>478573
>Vaping is looked down on because it uses electronic strip to emulate smoke rather than an oversized stick of tobacco. (Aesthetic conservatism at its "finest".)
I don't know if perception is really what's holding it back.
The delivery system seems fine. I think they lack the right chemical. Nicotine has too many downsides.

>NRA and other gun rights activists
>dont care about solving the problem.
That's what i don't understand, if there weren't these shootings there would not be a debate about banning guns.

>Nither do the gun control activists.
That i do understand, they want to ban guns to disarm the population, they don't want to solve mass-shootings because that would rob them of a pretense to disarm the population.

>Also schools nationwide are adding metal detectors.
Yeah but metal detectors were invented for airport security theater, where you can make people wait in line to board the plane.
If you turn up the sensitivity high enough to be reliable at gun-detection they produce too many false positives, because lots of stuff contains metal. So to make this viable for school entrances, you have to dial it down. I guess it's still doing harm reduction.

To fix school shootings. You'd need a camera for magnetic fields, so that you get at least some information about the shape of the metal, to get a high detection rate with low false positives. Maybe combine it with another type of sensor that can detect traces of gun-powder perhaps
>>

 No.478590

>>478577
>Gun crime is not a gun problem
true
<it is a demographic problem.
scapegoating some group doesn't fix anything.
>>

 No.478591

File: 1707633457903.jpg ( 88.88 KB , 750x738 , 1707633385857.jpg )

>>478577
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there is indeed a much higher rate of gun violence among blacks. This is because militancy was fostered during the civil rights movement with small black militias for protection then elevated into a militant political force by the black panthers. The feds replaced this movement with endless gang wars.

You have a militant movement in your country that is espousing the ideology of the enemy of your ruling class: what are you to do? The feds hit the panthers hard by using all of their informants to introduce drugs into the culture and incarcerate or assassinate it's leadership. The replacement for this black militancy is then the black lumpen proletariat elements you financed to propagate the drugs. You also make sure to prop up their music and culture so that a political black militant movement can never rise again from the gang wars.

It is precisely this same MO used in foreign countries like in Syria when the US financed Israel who financed ISIS to fight the Free Syrian Army and Kurds who are both directly financed by the US. It is such a known trick, it's used at the state level by prisons who play ethnicities off each other to prevent riots.
>>

 No.478592

>>478588
>blocking kids off from the real world
And with "the real world" you mean capitalism ?
You know we could make the economic model less predatorial.
>This makes life difficult
capitalism makes life difficult
There is so much technology now, if the economy was better organized, everybody could have a pleasant life.

The first thing we should try is change the economic system, before we try to change people.

Neo-liberalism has this extremely doctrinal ideological extremism to treat economics as something that can't be changed. But the economics are fucked up and cause loads of problems. And they try to treat symptoms of the problem in this extremely anti-human way of trying to change people by bullying, nagging and by introducing more population control schemes that's suffocating all the freedom.
>>

 No.478593

>>478591
>The feds replaced this movement with endless gang wars.
So the fix for all that violence is something that reverses gang formation ?

>It is precisely this same MO used in foreign countries like in Syria when the US financed Israel who financed ISIS to fight
When the Russians are done smashing up the neocon project in Ukraine in a year or so, they're going to direct their massive weapons production towards arming Assad, and that'll probably conclude the conflict in Syria.

But there has to be a more elegant solution.
>>

 No.478595

>>478593
I think the short term solution is to become the biggest militant and hopefully, peacefully, swallow up the micro gangs that currently exist. ie all three the uyghas in the "47th street bloods" To do this you'd have to find a way to form your own functional working class party or expell the opportunist maggots infesting an existing parties membership.
>>

 No.478596

>>478592
Can you stop viewing everything through the lens of "muh cailpitalism" for once?


Even if capitalism is a problem, which it definitiely is. you gotta admit that the current social treatment of youth in the first world is degrading.

If anything, capitalism is working so well it relies on exploiting the familial instinct.

Capitalism thrives because of the romanticism of family.

Everything that people do in terms of political or philosophical aspects all have to making the world into a place of like-minded peers.

We do we have cliques and factions?


We have them because said people are looking for a sense of family.

People seek romance and sex because they wanna make their own families.

If humans are unable to seek a sense of family from their fellow species-mates, they seek it from domestic animals.

Everything wrong with society has to do with familial unrest.

It not need not be blood rekatives
Anyone whom shares a common nationality or gender or race, if theres not enough goods to go around of people of the same social class, theres jealousy and bitterness.

Everyone is afraid of missing out
>>

 No.478598

>>478595
I can see the logic of making one really big gang that swallows up all the little ones, for the sake of avoiding intra-gang violence. But what extra steps turn that into a working class party ?
>>

 No.478599

>>478596
>Can you stop viewing everything through the lens of "muh capitalism" for once?
<can you ignore the giant pink elephant in the room
not really, No.

>We do we have cliques and factions?
Capitalism only enables a minority of people to live the good life, therefore you get reactionaries trying to make small groups that seek to capture the good life for themselves and exclude everybody else.

>Everything wrong with society has to do with familial unrest.
Never mind the ruling class screwing up society, it's all because of "familial unrest".
Really ?
>>

 No.478604

>>478598
it would begin as the armed wing of the party as it's basis and it would treat rival gangs exactly like the IRA did
>>

 No.478605

>>478604
>it would begin as the armed wing of the party
fair enough, that could make sense.
>it would treat rival gangs exactly like the IRA did
Don't know much about the Irish Republican Army. The IRA doesn't exist anymore as far as i know, so why do you think replicating their tactics would be worth it ?
>>

 No.478606

File: 1707680078794.jpg ( 50.48 KB , 941x535 , 1707680073463.jpg )

>>478605
They're a modern example. Part of the problem is that the good friday agreement was enough to sate republicanism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsAHGu-Z-VA
The IRA even in the 10s still continued to build dual power in accordance with the concept of lenin

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