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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1724998840275.jpg ( 3.78 KB , 100x141 , bordiga.jpg )

 No.483735

Was Bordiga right?

I have to admit some of his arguments are compelling. It certainly does seem to be the case that an unprincipled "popular front" just leads to liberals taking control of your revolution and directing it away from anticapitalism. At the same time history seems to have been very unkind to his strategy. Every time he split his support got smaller and smaller until he was ultimately pushed out and marginalized by those with all the power. Bordiga seemed very satisfied in interviews towards the end, that he had remained ideologically pure throughout his long life. Unfortunately it also seems like he accomplished very little after his expulsion from the Italian Communist Party in 1930.

Maybe there's no effective answer to the problems he identified? Are we supposed to just kick back in our armchairs and wait for capitalism to devour itself in the end?
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 No.483739

Was it liberals who took over?
As a… as a not-well-versed-in-Bordiga guy, I always associated him with, like, opposition to the more authoritarian ML "state capitalism" or whatever-you-wanna-call-it branch of socialism which kept the state but added a bunch of public services. I take it Italy was different?

My view… and maybe it's a weird view, but I come from a perspective where Marxism maybe brings this on itself to an extent. There's a major gap, specific to Marx, which creates a lot of room for interpretation in terms of just what will emerge from revolution. Where previous revolutions in Marx's time had failed from not being statey and defensive enough, it seems reasonable that Marx would say "ok, we need to develop a workers' state to protect the gains of the revolution before we get to a stateless communist state," but when that happens and it drags on, it inevitably becomes a betrayal to all those who were on board hoping to get a sort of peaceful post-capitalist anarchy rather than a huge, protracted "workers' state" with a monopoly on force. As soon as that happens once, you inevitably get guys like Bordiga, and even Trotsky (despite him being for a lot of the stuff Bordiga hated) who had a lot of valid points! but really ultimately may not have accomplished much else beyond correctly critiquing MLism as it existed. A big part of why it turned out that way probably is that a straight reading of Marx can produce both "the revolution needs a strong protective state to defend against bourgeois infiltration" and "the revolution will produce a stateless society where workers own the products of their labor."
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 No.483748

>>483739
Maybe we could try both at the same time.

Have an ML state that organizes high intensity defense, infrastructure and heavy industry, and then have anarchic structures for light industry, low intensity people's militias and amusement. You know pick the strong side of each, while avoiding their weaknesses.
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 No.483803

File: 1725480097132.jpeg ( Spoiler Image, 74.21 KB , 1080x945 , historically accurate.jpeg )

>>483739
>Marx would say "ok, we need to develop a workers' state to protect
Marx would fucking shoot your faggot ass 4 being a nutsoy cocksucker instead of a communist. You do not "protect" shit you stole from da big bourgs you fucking petbourg uyghur, you eliminate the class of bourgeoisie from human society EVERYWHERE as it is, including you. & if suddenly you now have to protect muh stuff, then…

>>483735
>Every time he split his support got smaller and smaller until he was ultimately pushed out and marginalized by those with all the power.
Th@'s called "revolution in retreat" you fucking retard. It's a force of nature th@ you are not in any capacity to tamper with, & so, in the world of failed communist revolution one of the productive things you can do is dogmatizing the og theory so th@ no fucking nutsoy faggot could completely degenerate it into another strain of state liberalism with (super-)nazional characteristics ("marxism-leninism").
>Unfortunately it also seems like he accomplished very little after his expulsion from the Italian Communist Party in 1930.
Gee, I wonder why!

>>483748
>Maybe we could try both liberalisms at the same time.
</leftypol/
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 No.484040

File: 1726033809510.png ( 162.95 KB , 500x500 , ClipboardImage.png )

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 No.484059

>>483735
>>483803
I absolutely despise these purity spiraling communist who think communism is some kind of loyalty test.
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 No.484100

>>483735
If you want a boner killer for his pure and dogmatic thought, see his opinion on Trotsky.
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 No.484285

>>484100
Can you elaborate?

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