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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1726103023577.png ( 896.52 KB , 1035x574 , chiang.png )

 No.484122

idk making this thread because the one on .org died with the rest of the site
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 No.484126

first. take your shit thread from a shit site and fuck off.
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 No.484129

"General" thread faggotry aside, the fuck is "anti-campism"?
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 No.484131

File: 1726110255932.png ( 7.83 KB , 253x276 , .org.png )

>>484126
the site's been dead for three days
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 No.484132

>>484129
its kind of a catch-all term for people who don't believe in the current hype behind multipolarity
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 No.484136

>>484129
it's when you're a communist instead of a third world national chauvinist
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 No.484137

>>484132
It's people who actually take the PRC at face value when they say they're not going to get rid of their private sector within this century
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 No.484139

File: 1726118594697.png ( 1.15 MB , 2200x1000 , revdef.vs.campists.png )

I started the first thread /revdef/ but didn't save a template and got bored after some retard janny 404'd my OC (picrel) on there. Really don't feel like wasting any more time refuting strawman arguments with seething multipolaristas or sifting through ML sperg-outs about if the RF qualifies as imperialist or not under Lenin's definition, but if other anons on here are interested I will take the time to post an updated list of russian/ukrainian groups/sites and TG channels which provide anti-campist, pro-revolutionary perspectives, news on local workers' struggles and mobilization resistance. I think it should be mentioned that the original thread was not exactly meant to be only about issues pertaining to the so called russia-ukraine war, but proletarian anti-campist perspectives and anti-militarist actions in relation to all bellicose conflicts happening around the world, so it would be great if anons could share articles/info about autonomous class resistance to militarism from whatever (proletarian) source they can find.
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 No.484141

>>484139
post it uygha
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 No.484143

File: 1726122245500.png ( 363.44 KB , 768x305 , against.capitalist.peace.png )

>>484141
ok so actually I found a mirror of the original thread on archive.is https://archive.is/3vk59#selection-1199.0-1275.17 -possibly later threads had more links, feel free to suggest anything that fits the description:
This is a thread for posting info about proletarian struggles against nationalism and militarism around the globe:
-Direct actions against forced mobilizations
-Sabotage of military infrastructure
-Proletarian confraternization solidarity across the lines of battles
-Support for deserters and evaders
-Appeals and actions towards turning the imperialist war into revolutionary class war

Telegram channels with RevDef positions in the conflict zones (RU/DNR/UA) -
(use machine translation)
https://t.me/RFU_media
https://t.me/Fidel_writes
https://t.me/clowns_diaries
https://t.me/NMOdessa
https://t.me/borotba_paper
https://t.me/Nazariy_Kostyshyn
https://t.me/mobdnrlive
https://t.me/Marxist_platform_of_Ukraine

Sites
https://assembly.org.ua
https://rfu.media
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 No.484146

>>484132
>current hype behind multipolarity
>material conditions are hype now
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 No.484153

File: 1726128979530-0.jpg ( 81.71 KB , 1200x755 , 8e4.jpg )

File: 1726128979530-1.jpg ( 235.87 KB , 1437x983 , e97.jpg )

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 No.484155

>>484146
they are
i hate the amerikkka as much as the next guy, but it's going to take a long time until its stranglehold on the world is broken
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 No.484170

>>484139
>I support revdev in countries outside of my own when they try to undo global apartheid!
>I encourage proles to act as useful idiots for the SBU instead of explaining how a workers movements could be strengthened in Russia and thus ensure any uprising will result in a successful communist revolution!
You go kween, slay!

>>484129
Anti-campism is when you're a cockroach who crawled straight out of a V**sh livestream comment section, and quote mine Lenin out of context, in order to encourage Russians and others in the global south to rise up and commit random acts of terrorist adventurism, so states and movements fighting NATO and global apartheid lose, all from the comfort of your western bedroom
Not to be confused with anti-campism and revolutionary defeatism as described in detail by Lenin, which is to be applied under specific circumstances by an organized mass movement, in support of triggering a revolution

And note how these totally-not-NAFO-or-V**shoid slimes spam every site with their putrid mainstream western liberal takes.
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 No.484171

>>484155
>american decline is extremely limited and was already happening
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 No.484172

>>484139
Like which ones, other than Ukraine and Palestine? The imperialist civil war in Myanmar? Lmfao
>the original thread was not exactly meant to be only about issues pertaining to the so called russia-ukraine war,
A lie considering the links in the OP. Thankfully the original threads were archived so when the site is back up we can call you out on this one too.
You people are so goddam transparent. The quote mining of Lenin, the 1:1 substitution of Christianity with Marxist sounding phrases, the critical-support-but-only-for-orgs-overthrowing-those-trying-to-abolish-the-international-liberal-order
You really think what you're trying here is original? That we're not seeing through it?

>But Russia and China aren't AES!

Irrelevant. We must critically examine conditions and movements even if they're not explicitly communist. Just like Lenin, Marx, Trotsky, Stalin and others did many times over, resulting in conclusions that at times favored "bourgeois states" in some cases against other bourgeois states, again under specific conditions.
Obviously """anti-campists""" don't like this. Which is why those quotes were largely ignored in the org threads.
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 No.484174

>>484171
considering their second war(s) after they supposably won over the entire world was met with massive global pushback along with falling economic conditions, sloppier work on the global scale and failing to contain a coof for 2 years before the war we've been seeing decline for a while now
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 No.484175

>>484172
>A lie considering the links in the OP. Thankfully the original threads were archived so when the site is back up we can call you out on this one too.
the op was literally posted here uyghur >>484143
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 No.484177

>>484175
Literally all Ukraine war links. My exact point.
>it should be mentioned that the original thread was not exactly meant to be only about issues pertaining to the so called russia-ukraine war
In regards to the anti-campist threads is literally full of shit. Like again, what other "conflicts" are ongoing in the world between state actors?
I hope people like RevDef anon aren't encouraging Palestinians to do revdev among the rubble of their own homes lel
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 No.484179

>>484177
America can end the war in Ukraine anytime it wants just as it could end the Genocide in Gaza right now.
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 No.484194

File: 1726155618657.jpg ( 288.72 KB , 1128x768 , Death to America.jpg )

>>484179
Russia could also end the war in Ukraine any time it wants.
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 No.484197

>>484139
the reason those threads became about Russia/Ukraine despite the more general and vague intentions behind thread 1 is because Russia/Ukraine has become the global focal point for core-periphery bourgeois conflict in general.
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 No.484198

>>484143
>ok so actually I found a mirror of the original thread on archive.is
PREVIOUS THREADS ARCHIVED
>thread 1
https://archive.ph/3vk59
>thread 2
https://archive.ph/0nl34
>thread 3
https://archive.ph/IlnNV
>thread 4
https://archive.ph/TGcbL
>thread 5
https://archive.ph/W9gXy
>thread 6
https://archive.ph/DqmLm
>thread 7
https://archive.ph/M9nbv
>thread 8
https://archive.ph/tNGNO
>thread 9
https://archive.ph/bQK0q
>thread 10
https://archive.ph/wip/BcHq3
>thread 11
https://archive.ph/5nt0c
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 No.484201

>>484198
danke herr docktor
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 No.484202

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/dec/12a.htm

The objection may be advanced that, besides tsarism and under its wing, another historical force has arisen and become strong, viz., Great-Russian capitalism, which is carrying on progressive work by economically centralising and welding together vast regions. This objection, however, does not excuse, but on the contrary still more condemns our socialist-chauvinists, who should be called tsarist-Purishkevich socialists[7] (just as Marx called the Lassalleans Royal-Prussian socialists).[8] Let us even assume that history will decide in favour of Great-Russian dominant-nation capitalism, and against the hundred and one small nations. That is not impossible, for the entire history of capital is one of violence and plunder, blood and corruption. We do not advocate preserving small nations at all costs; other conditions being equal, we are decidedly for centralisation and are opposed to the petty-bourgeois ideal of federal relationships. Even if our assumption were true, however, it is, firstly, not our business, or that of democrats (let alone of socialists), to help Romanov-Bobrinsky-Purishkevich throttle the Ukraine, etc. In his own Junker fashion, Bismarck accomplished a progressive historical task, but he would be a fine “Marxist” indeed who, on such grounds, thought of justifying socialist support for Bismarck! Moreover, Bismarck promoted economic development by bringing together the disunited Germans, who were being oppressed by other nations. The economic prosperity and rapid development of Great Russia, however, require that the country be liberated from Great-Russian oppression of other nations—that is the difference that our admirers of the true-Russian would-be Bismarcks overlook.

Secondly, if history were to decide in favour of Great Russian dominant-nation capitalism, it follows hence that the socialist role of the Great-Russian proletariat, as the principal driving force of the communist revolution engendered by capitalism, will be all the greater. The proletarian revolution calls for a prolonged education of the workers in the spirit of the fullest national equality and brotherhood. Consequently, the interests of the Great-Russian proletariat require that the masses be systematically educated to champion—most resolutely, consistently, boldly and in a revolutionary manner—complete equality and the right to self-determination for all the nations oppressed by the Great Russians. The interests of the Great Russians’ national pride (understood, not in the slavish sense) coincide with the socialist interests of the Great-Russian (and all other) proletarians. Our model will always be Marx, who, after living in Britain for decades and becoming half-English, demanded freedom and national independence for Ireland in the interests of the socialist movement of the British workers.

In the second hypothetical case we have considered, our home-grown socialist-chauvinists, Plekhanov, etc., etc., will prove traitors, not only to their own country—a free and democratic Great Russia, but also to the proletarian brotherhood of all the nations of Russia, i.e., to the cause of socialism.
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 No.484203

>>484197
>the reason those threads became about Russia/Ukraine despite the more general and vague intentions behind thread 1 is because Russia/Ukraine has become the global focal point for core-periphery bourgeois conflict in general.
I agree with half of your analysis, the conflict in Ukraine has become a core-periphery thing.

But as far as the intentions go, i remain unconvinced this is innocent. If you want to argue for de-escalation politics like during the entente after the first cold war, you have to argue that Russians are human beings with legitimate grievances. And no-campism seems like it's geared towards attacking that. Like a means for policing the borders of what ruling ideology considers the acceptable range of opinion.
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 No.484212

>>484202
This is why I oppose the worst of all Great Russian Chauvinsts, Agent Zelensky. While Putin took the moderate nationalist position of only annexing the rebel provinces during the peace talks, Agent Z was unsatisfied with that. He pushed for expanding the war, so that Russia will be able to conquer more land and eventually realize the Russian nationalist dream of Novorossiya.

Jokes aside, Lenin and other theorists of the national question were writing at a time when national chauvinism within continental European empires meant the total supression of the linguistic and religious rights of a particular nation. This meant that public schooling was limited to a single language and in order become a government bureaucrat, you had to have a certain religion and speak certain language. Only thing that counterbalanced this is that these empires were seriously backwards with large rural populations who didn't have any access to formal education. This meant that as these empires urbanized, the lesser nations would simultaneously disappear.

This is why some Marxists and the intellectuals of lesser nations were concerned that without statehood, they would cease to exist, just as if they were all marched into gas chambers. The counterargument of other Marxists and proponents of the Great Nations was that these people barely constituted real nation, that their "nationhood" was nothing more than a provincial identity and the illusions of a handful of intellectuals. And in the end the process of assimilation was voluntary process, it didn't require physical violence. This is why Pan-Slavism, an ideology proposing that every single Slavic nation should be ruled by the Czar, had numerous genuine proponents among Croats, Serbs, Slovaks, etc.

Marxists added an additional layer to this debate concerning the feudal and bourgeois-progressive attributes of these empires that existed alongside each other. For someone like Luxemburg, the backwardness of these empires was exemplified by the persistence of provincial non-nations whose only basis of existence was their loyalty to the local nobility and clergy instead of emerging centralized state. Lenin argued that the real backwardness was the dynastic basis of these empires. Assimilation was viewed as impossible, half-assed attempt from the old, monolingual feudal ruling class to modernize. In order to maximize bourgeois development, new nations would have to be created.

While Lenin's concessions to lesser nations might have been necessary at the time, he was wrong about multinational states with a dominant nation being necessarily backwards. The Russian Federation, just like the USSR before it, is a product of Lenin's reforms. All minorities posses linguistic and religious rights. The two are incomparable.
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 No.484216

File: 1726175508478-0.png ( 343.97 KB , 1795x667 , agent Z suffering.png )

File: 1726175508478-1.png ( 347.5 KB , 1248x634 , zelensky's plan.png )

>>484212
>the worst of all Great Russian Chauvinsts, Agent Zelensky
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 No.484219

>>484212
This is one of the first (only?) times I've seen "anti-campism" take into account the nuanced specific context in which he promoted both revolutionary defeatism and argued against a "United States of Europe". And I agree.
The position however by some that nation-states and national divisions should be maintained no matter what be cause those undoing them are "bourgeois" is reactionary, and in favor of maintaining global apartheid. These people may have as well have argued this in favor of the continued existence of the Bantustans ("Blacks" in South Africa referred to dozens of ethnic groups).

The Russian Annexation of Ukraine is progressive because old national divisions are abolished. But Ukrainian culture is not wiped out, the language isn't banned (and continues as an official language of several oblasts), Ukraininans aren't suffering the same fate as the jews during the holocaust.
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 No.484226

This thread smells like a sectarian fed op. You're not a cool special snowflake for making up indecipherable abbreviations for your clique, you're just a fag.

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