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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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 No.489236>>489295

Firstly, let me state that I am aware that in *some way* all forms of American socialism will be "anti American" in that it advocates for the removal of the current system, just as all (or most) forms of socialism do. Even demsocs believe that the system under which we currently operate is wrong and must be changed in some way. But American leftists in particular have this very, very anti-American sentiment. And I get it. I hate America too. And the USA is, of course, a colonial state that engaged in genocide. But is it truly beyond redemption?

Moreover, I have to wonder, is it truly expedient to tell people (or at least to imply by our own words and actions) that they have to hate the very *idea* of a united America? I do not necessarily support the ACP, but this is probably why people do. So-called MAGA communism is appealing to many particularly because it lacks this anti-American sentiment.

To be clear, I am anti-America in one sense. I believe that the USA is a genocidal empire, and a force for evil in the world. But in the sense that America must be entirely dissolved, I am not. I do not believe that. Many of the criticism levelled against the USA could have been made against China or Russia. But these were not dissolved; they were simply made into communist versions of themselves. I find America's problem to be capitalism, not the mere existence of a united American nation.
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 No.489240

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I think this is a very interesting discussion in my opinion. I'm skeptical of the ACP for other reasons, but I think that they're right about this one in a general sense.

To start off, I think Americans are essentially an orphaned people. Irish Americans are not Irish, English Americans are not English, and black Americans are obviously very far removed from the African continent culturally. European colonists killed the vast majority of the original inhabitants, relegating some who remained to ethnic reservations and driving others south into present-day Mexico. What those Europeans stole was a great, massive, huge amount of extremely diverse and extremely beautiful land, taking with it part of the culture which was fused into folk traditions of Europe, and mixed with elements left over from Africa. This is where American folk culture comes from.

This process was undeniably a catastrophic crime, and the surviving descendants of victims of the American Indian genocide and the African slave trade are owed reconciliation and justice, especially with relation to land and land rights. Indians and black Americans are the only two groups in the continental US who are owed this, because the crimes against them were far greater and lasted much longer than those perpetrated against others.

With that said, we aren't about to un-genocide the Indians. All we need to do on this front is stop actively violating treaties with them. For black people, some system of land reparations (like Lincoln planned to do before he was assassinated) could be done without much loss, and would provide more real long term value than monetary reparations would, and this would purely be done as repayment for the original dispossession & enslavement, and, implicitly, as repayment for housing discrimination during the long segregation era which ended within living memory.

Regardless of whether we take this approach, it can't be denied that this land is a vast, beautiful, and bountiful place. Our culture is by no means perfect, but most of us are not intimately connected with any other culture. We often are fond of what we learn about old world culture, old traditions, old mythology, old religion, but it is not what most of us are well-acquainted with. The United States of America has molded from different clays a great syncretic culture of marches, cakewalks, blues, jazz, urban poetry, bluegrass, showtunes, superstition, rationalism, esotericism, deism, puritanism, and all manner of ever-evolving things borne of fugitives, former slaves, exiles, aristocrats, and ne'er-do-wells.

I think that it's a very fascinating culture in many ways, and I think that this is a very beautiful land. So the greatest and most consistent crime today, with regards to the historic crime, is that so many millions of people died and we still allow our fellow workers to go homeless. Millions were murdered and dispossessed for the sake of vacant lots and for the sake of landlords who kill and dispossess still more today. I think that this needs to change, and that there is no room for "leaders" who will not do whatever is necessary to change it.

I used to think that Balkanization might be good on some level, but I don't favor it now. I think I used to have a more nihilistic outlook in this sense, plus I associated Balkanization with, you know, dance clubs with good EDM… but honestly, if the US Balkanized today, we still wouldn't get raves back, our drugs would be worse, and we'd mostly just have shitty trap music at clubs which would still be overpriced somehow. Anyway, the wars would also be bad. No governor who would have real ambitions for secession is going to be anything but the most despotic fucking prick you can think of, and a lot of them would do it whether or not doing so was economically viable. In my view it's imperative that the US stay in one piece, I think that kneejerk impulses to dissolve the union outright are misguided.

My end solution for America is one country with a strong national guard and no involvement in any foreign conflicts in any capacity. It's not unlikely that in this scenario the US will have to stave off coup attempts by disgruntled mercenaries like Erik Prince, and we'll need to maintain military capacity to fight that off. We should reindustrialize, do land reform (specifically targeting unoccupied/unused speculative properties), do major jobs programs related to public services and not just military/police shit, nationalize transit, and use our bountiful land and wealth and talent to become a great country which celebrates our historic plural nationalism, allowing for diversity while also providing benefits to empower workers from all backgrounds. If we prevent our current government from instigating WWIII, we could retire to being a nice Nordic-style economy, and people here would think that's pretty cucked but it would still be a major improvement over what we've got now which is a deranged empire run by the evilest bastards on the face of the Earth.
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 No.489289>>489291>>489296

Devil's adocate, what makes America different from Israel?
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 No.489291

>>489289
Principally, above all else?
That the Indians have already been genocided to the point that there are very few left. It's stolen land, and even many of the people populating it are stolen people. It is not morally better in that way, it is built on top of a great crime.

Secondarily, the US is not legally an ethnic or religious supremacist state. It's not wrong to say that it's racist or, I would say, even still white supremacist in practice, but it's still not currently as extreme as Israel or apartheid-era South Africa or even segregation-era US in this sense. For example, you can legally marry someone of a different religion in the US, that's illegal in Israel. White people do not officially hold any rights that non-white people do in the US, there aren't segregated roads in the US, etc. None of this is to whitewash the US's current or historic crimes and inequities, but it's less bad in terms of how it functions legally on its own continental territory than Israel is. That doesn't make it good.

America can and should build on the differences in the second paragraph, and stop shitting on the remaining Indians.
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 No.489295>>489386

>>489236 (OP)
the more I live the more I see Has-Hinkle got more right than wrong. Death to Leftypol and their irrational hatred of Haz. May Leftychan be the only left image board.
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 No.489296

>>489289
America completed the job, in an era where genociding non-whites was the norm.
Israel came late to the party, they started their colonisation when the world entered the era of Decolonisation. Secondly, Israel still have not finished the job. So in short, Israelis had bad timing + skill isssue.
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 No.489386>>489387

>>489295
Insane how Jackson went from commenting on TYT drama to speaking in person for Ansar Allah to millions. And at such a young age. I can't think of a more impressive online personality.
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 No.489387

>>489386
Has always felt like some kind of astroturfing operation to me.
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 No.489393>>489394>>489398

Wanna know a secret?
Most political ideologies have anti American sentiment.

Rightists hate America for allowing secularism and female autonomy.

Atheists hate America for showing Judeo Christian religiopolitical bias.

Anarchists hate America for having a sturdy state.

Authoritarians hate America for advocating individualism.
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 No.489394>>489398

>>489393
Sounds like America might be the problem. We need a post-American ideology.
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 No.489398

>>489393
Sounds a bit like a more sophisticated version of Doubleyou's
<they hate us for our freedoms

>>489394
i'm going to make a wild guess that anti-American sentiment isn't really all that ideological. It's more likely about the big empire dropping bombs, doing regime-change and economic warfare.

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