>>490450>Never in the history of civilization have markets existed without a state to set them up.Learn to read
<This statement is trivially disproven. What do you think a black market is? What government is controlling the darknet drug markets? People in Somalia ran their own stock market without a government. You don't need government to have property rights, free trade and free association. In the long run government destroys all 3 of those things.
>Everywhere capitalism emerged it was through looting and coercion.Capitalism is the realization that voluntary cooperation and trade is more profitable than theft.
>The first step was to enclose the common land in Europe and thereby throw subsistence farmers into the cities so they could perform wage labor.Nobody forced farmers to move into the cities. They did it because they made more money by being involved with higher stages of production.
>>490451>Chiquita does to banana workersWho was funded by the CIA who is funded by the state stealing money from workers through taxes.
>>490454>Wow, the US is going to impose sanctions and decades of economic warfare against NYC?If they nationalize the grocery stores in New York then there will be food shortages and a black market in food will emerge. Screenshot this post.
>>490456>Capitalism isn't "markets", it is private control of the means of production.The whole concept of a market depends on the concept of private property otherwise what are you trading. Different ways of describing the same thing.
>That's not enforceable without a government or other means of violence.Except all the examples I already cited. There doesn't need to be a monopoly on violence for people to respect and protect each other's property rights. Useless institutions like the state will always lie to make you think you need them.
>You can't have freedom under capitalism.You can
only have freedom under capitalism. Political freedom depends on economic freedom. If the state controls your property (the product of your labor) then voting is just kabuki theater.
>>490457>capitalism is wage laborMost people sell their labor for instant guaranteed wages because they don't have the creativity or risk appetite to be self employed or entrepreneurs. That's not really a property of capitalism it's just an implementation detail.
>>490458>The food shortages in the early USSR came as a legacy from the previous system that neglected to mechanize agriculture.That's not true. Food shortages came after key points such as when Lenin tried to collectivize farms in the early 1920s or when Stalin started persecuting kulaks 10 years later. Famines in China were again directly caused by communist policies aimed at ending private property and collectivizing the means of production.
>New York is not going to have food-shortages because it might have a socdem Mayor.If he's serious about nationalizing food distribution then yes there will be food shortages.
>That is just ridiculousnessThe government can barely deliver your mail on time and you want them to be in charge of your food. Good luck with that.
>That 1 person that corners the market, will use his wealth to entrench a monopoly.What does that even mean? He's going to sell at low prices to drive out the competition? Then he won't make any money and will go broke. He will jack up prices after the competition is dead? Then new competition will pop up. Monopolies only exist in the market by exploiting government power i.e. by subverting the free market.
>Happens every-time.Never happened. I know that's what you learned in school but it's lies.
<Private companies make money through voluntary trade.>There used to be lots of feudal lords that each had little private armies and they fought little wars all the time.Feudal lords don't make money through voluntary trade they forced slaves to work their land.
>States took away those armies, that's where the monopoly on violence idea was born.We went from petty nobility fighting each other with small armies to total war carpet bombing civilian cities. That was a good trade. Why do I have to explain why the state sucks on a communist board.
>most wars are fought on behalf of capitalists looking to expandAnd they can eat shit. The only reason that's possible is because the state taxes workers to pay for it. If they had to pay for their own bombs then it wouldn't be worth it.
>The US market system builds data-centers and then those drive up electricity prices and put to much load on the grid and only then they build new power-plants because they have to wait for the market signalsGoogle, Amazon, Microsoft have more than enough money and motivation and foresight to build their own power plants. They can't because the state won't let them. The politics at play is more about democracy vs dictatorship. Each president is only looking at 4 to 8 years a time. Any infrastructure project that takes more then a single term to complete is all cost and no benefit for the president so it doesn't even get started.
>do you really think that Mr Musk would take the deal where he gets less regulation but also has to follow directions from government appointed inserts in his company ?Probably not.
>While we're at it the Chinese planning system clearly works, they bootstrapped a competitive microchip industry in less than 10 years.Depends what you mean by "works". Central planning can get things done in very narrow fields. When Stalin wanted the biggest military in the world he got it. When the next guy wanted to be the first in space he got it. Meanwhile people literally starved to death in Ukraine. Central planning is good at providing the top 2 or 3 things the dictator wants. Not so good at providing the myriad of things the people need and want. Even then I'm not so sure that empty skyscrapers made out of tissue paper and high speed railways to nowhere is what Xi really wanted.