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"Technology reveals the active relation of man to nature"
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File: 1623943903030.jpg ( 124.24 KB , 1600x1200 , iuoui.jpg )

 No.9352

Does the failure of Linux desktop prove that communism will never work?

feels like a barely functioning toy compare to the commercial options. they argue over irrelevant differences, constantly reinvent the wheel, never innovate, barely handles the basics.

it has no profit motive to unite or to sort boring problems.
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 No.9354

works on my machine
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 No.9356

File: 1623949522752.png ( 236.35 KB , 800x1839 , 800px-Metcalfe-Network-Eff….png )

>>9352
no, it mostly proves the power of network effects. the actual quality of the OS is far less relevant than the number of people using it, since the OS is primarily just there to support applications, which support you in what you're actually trying to do. but application developers are primarily going to target operating systems that are widely used, so you wind up in a loop where people buy windows because it has the applications, and people make applications for windows because it has the userbase.

not that FOSS development is without massive structural problems and, in particular, that awful tendency of the technically skilled to disregard the technically unskilled (what, give my software an options menu? just use my config file… ugh, you want to know what the flags are? why didn't you check program/slug/var/temp/bz/ds/doc, that's got a perfectly helpful list of flags with no explanation of what they do!) and the political structure of the whole thing which is theoretically egalitarian, but in practice always winds up throwing control to either a cabal, a corporation, or market forces, but in terms of why people don't use GNU/Linux on their desktop machines, it's entirely because everyone already uses Windows. (and ultimately people use Windows because people used to use DOS, and people used DOS because their workplaces used DOS, and their workplaces used DOS because IBM was selling DOS.)
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 No.9357

>>9352
>Does the failure of Linux desktop prove that communism will never work?
No. Communism is the struggle of the proletariat to take power and abolish itself, it has nothing to do with computer operating systems or FOSS.
>feels like a barely functioning toy compare to the commercial options
Linux user for 10 years here, for most applications Linux desktop is better for productivity than Windows. I did my bachelor's on a laptop running Arch and I couldn't imagine going back to Windows and the utter lack of user control over the OS and programs. I've also tried out Windows Server, it's incredibly shitty compared to even a basic Ubuntu Server install.
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 No.9361

>>9357
Free software is basically a struggle of the proletariat to take control of the means of production. (It did a lot of good for programmers at the very least, might have done even more for everyone working with computers if not for the OS sellouts.)

>>9352
Did you just wake up from a 20-year coma or something? Haven't seen this in over a decade.

(Even genuine haters eventually realized desktop computers are their last electronic devices that don't run on Linux. At that point, singling out desktop feels like grasping at straws. Not that they're right about the desktop either, mind you.)
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 No.9362

>never innovate
Most of the commercial operating system developments for the past 20 years have come from Linux/FOSS desktop ideas first.
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 No.9363

I can't remember the last time I had something comparable to BSODs or those infuriating, utterly opaque Windows registry problems on GNU/Linux. GNU/Linux also boots up and runs stable on some of my hardware that Windows can't handle.
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 No.9364

File: 1623962974484.pdf ( 27.25 KB , 67x118 , utah2000.pdf )

>>9356
>network effects
Luckily this goes both ways, so I can easily compile the small cli reference implementation for something, because it was developed on a UNIX system.
Graphic applications (when they actually make sense) are also better, take for example the sufficiently simple and transparent design of xaw, fltk and motif (mind the thick borders) applications in contrast to the trend of smooth scrolling and "Candy Crush Menus", that is pushed onto the masses of computer users across all operating systems.

>>9362
>innovation
See the attached PDF.
<Linux's success may indeed be the single strongest argument for my thesis: The excitement generated by a clone of a decades-old operating system demonstrates the void that the systems software research community has failed to fill.
Note that this was before most Linux systems tried to become Lindows.
You could declare the init system that will one day replace the web browser and ever-growing vendor sponsored kernel subsystems as "innovation".
Linux is miles ahead of Windows and sadly that is partly because it did not "progress" as much.
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 No.9369

>>9364
Aero is a literal ripoff of Compiz/K Window Manager.
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 No.9370

File: 1623979293986-0.png ( 490 KB , 1024x576 , Enlightenment.png )

File: 1623979293986-1.jpg ( 553.72 KB , 1028x837 , openbox places pipe menu.jpg )

Show me one commercial desktop system with an interface anything like Bunsenlabs or Enlightenment Desktop.
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 No.9371

>>9370
Looks like mac.
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 No.9382

>>9371
Well it's not.
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 No.9383

>failure
Millions of users, including in professional environments, ain't failure. Especially when most of that is non-for-profit.
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 No.9384

>never innovate
Still can't pin a window on top of other windows in Windows.
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 No.9385

>>9352
Its because wind0z is the de facto default, its bourgies fault that run tech companies that dont allow their programmers to cross-platform their software.
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 No.9391

>>9356
config files that are well done are easier to edit than using an options menu, even for newbies. The only-thing that is really missing is discoverability, most of the time you need to read a manual, or follow a howto to even find out what kind of options you have. The documentation needs to be merged with the programs so that when ever you do something you can make explanations and tipps show up somewhere on the side. The main difference between a casual computer user and a elite haxor is that casual users don't do anything with their computers that isn't immediately apparent. If you make it easy to explore the system casual users will play around with it too.
>>9383
My estimate is that in the moment about 10% of all computer users are really missing out by not using Linux because they would benefit greatly from what it has to offer. So the near term goal should be to get these people to switch.
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 No.9393

The failure of Linux desktop proves that Trotskyism will never work. A million different splinter groups with millions of different distros divides everyone's work. Noobs who are interested don't know where to start because all the splinter groups argue with one another as to what noobs should install.
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 No.9395

>failure
the war ain't over, bill
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 No.9399

>>9356
both microsoft and apple understood that.

the commercial OS uses any tactics it can to make itself predominate then gets all the support and applications. that's the playing field and linux lost.
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 No.9400

>>9361
what does it matter if peoples phones and toasters run the kernel if it comes with no user liberation?

the code made for the people was swept up as free labor for the capitalist and no ideals got achieved
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 No.9401

>>9371
looks like shit. thumbnails dont even work.
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 No.9402

>>9385
cope cliche. that the left is failing purely because of bourgeois sabotage rather than the obvious technically issues in making cross compatible code. All the big companies wanted to do it in the 90s and failed, thats why the web is now a terribly inefficient application gateway.

if linux wasnt such a clusterfuck and was stable, it would have received more support. as is now, its a hobby OS for weirdos
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 No.9403

>>9402
What do you mean Linux isn't stable? It's literally the go-to for servers.
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 No.9404

>>9391
capitalists dont argue that text configs are better than gui menus, they do what the market rewards and end up with better software for the end user.
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 No.9405

>>9393
I agree with this one. the kernel succeed because of the digital dictator that is linus. they need an overman to call the shots and put their foot down.

in this miny experiment of self organisation doesn't this show that the "workers" can't self organise, that the managers aren't simply taking the surplus but are crucial for keeping the organisation functioning.

anarco-communism doesn't work, the only way the left can succeed is with marxist leninist?
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 No.9406

>>9403
if the desktop was as stable as the server it could have pulled in more developers willing to port their applications but its not.

its a self organised mess of groups not working together and constantly deprecating features and api's.
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 No.9407

>>9406
>if the desktop was as stable as the server
You have no idea what you're talking about.
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 No.9409

>>9402
>the left is failing purely because of bourgeois sabotage
>obvious technically issues in making cross compatible code
>big companies wanted to do it in the 90s and failed
>if linux wasnt such a clusterfuck and was stable
>it would have received more support
??????????
What?
https://news.itsfoss.com/huawei-kernel-contribution/
https://themanufacturingconnection.com/2021/03/google-funds-linux-kernel-developers-to-focus-exclusively-on-security/
https://www.linux.com/news/microsoft-becomes-linux-kernel-contributor/
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-NVIDIA-Intel-Kernel-Contrib
Are you simply unaware of the massive cross-sector industry support for Linux development? Linux is the most popular OS for phones, embedded devices of all kinds, servers, and supercomputers. Accordingly it receives a great deal of support from industry leaders. Why are you trying to frame Linux as a left-wing project?
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 No.9410

>>9409
Free software is a left wing project to liberate people from the tyranny of proprietary technology.

Big corporations contributing to it doesn't negate that.
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 No.9411

>>9407
You can run 20 year old software on windows. Linux applications need maintenance version to version, distro to distro.
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 No.9416

>>9411
Hey IDIOT, you can run 20 yr old statically linked executables on Linux too, and if the program was compiled for a different architecture you can easily use QEMU to virtualize it.
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 No.9417

>>9416
That doesn't even reliably work between distros now, never mind 20 years in the future. An AppImage I tried of VLC the other day had errors on Fedora. This stuff needs to be intentionally planned and maintained, its not so easy to just static link and expect it to work.

Microsoft spends huge amount of resources on keeping old stuff working, desktop linux doesn't even value it. Gnome depreciates things all the time.

Heres a 2012 blog about one of the developers who left the community saying the same thing. https://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html

Things haven't changed.
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 No.9420

>>9417
>Microsoft spends huge amount of resources on keeping old stuff working
Pretty funny, ever since Vista rolled out and they dropped the 16-bit Windows compatibility layer, Wine has been the only way to run Windows 3.0/95-era programs.
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 No.9421

>>9417
>Miguel de Icaza
Notorious traitor to the libre community, has shat the place up for years with his Mono bullshit giving shoddy Windows developers a free pass to continue pushing .NET programs and pretend they're making real Linux ports that run like ass, and he was a major signatory to the anti-Stallman letter several months ago.
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 No.9442

>feels like a barely functioning toy compare to the commercial options
Only if you are intellectually limited.
The bajillion things I can do on the command line alone, the billion ways I can config and reconfig the entire system and free software programs by just editing some config files, the way I can fine tune almost everything on a Linux box, and so on and so on…
But I get your point, the common simpleton who needs icons and the mouse for everything will never understand what a computer really is and how to source its powers to the fullest potential.
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 No.9466

>>9352
Does the failure of you as a normalfaggot computer user prove that normies are beyond redemption and should be barred from tech spaces?
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 No.9471

>>9466
i'm a programmer myself and i tried to use it for a year and found it a disaster. got sick of trying to fix basic stuff. even after I bought hardware for it, that i knew would be well supported, it was still extremely unpleasant and broken.

i can see all the cliches that conservatives say about communist countries in the community as well.

out of touch elite who are only interested in their way, no incentive to fix issues, stagnant culture, petty squabbles over irrelevant details, can only copy capitalist innovations, always blames their failings on others, ugly, tells you you're wrong for wanting something they dont, bureaucratic nightmare, etc.

shouldn't the release of tyranny produce a burst of innovation and creativity?

>>9442
i find people that say this sort of stuff are usually oblivious to modern software. an instagramer can likely do plenty of powerful things you cant on your command line
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 No.9472

>>9471
>can likely
Do you have any concrete examples or is it just something that you really want to be true but have no idea of?
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 No.9474

>>9471
You shouldn't really have hardware problems with linux nowadays.
Almost all vendors already sponsor or contribute to kernel drivers.

That said most distros are intrinsically broken, so you will either need to install a patched up stable release or seek out a distro, that doesn't use fragile software like void or alpine (or some really obscure statically linked one with suckless software ;-).
If you really want stability above all else, you should look at OpenBSD.
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 No.9475

>>9471
You sound like you tried to use Linux as if it was Windows, and when that didn't work you declared it as broken.
Cli is more powerful than gui, unless you have some kind of special inputs like graphics editors or video games. Even Microsoft agrees with that because they are working on improving the command prompt and you can even have a reduced functionality bash shell with a Linux environment emulator for windows.
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 No.9480

>>9471
Specifically refering to you Instragram example, the web is one of the most difficult areas to interact with nowadays.
Therefore you will likely need to invest some effort to retrieve most things.
However once you set it up, you can easily automate it.
For example you can easily retrieve most web comics and manga scans with a shell loop like this where a is the base url and n is the number of pages:
for i in `seq 1 $n`;do curl -o `printf '%02s' $n` $a$n;done
or in a better shell:
for(i in `{seq 1 $n}) curl -o `{printf '%02s'} $n$a
You will likely need to add a statement to download special pages like the cover on some sites though.
(Also note busybox doesn't accept the 0 printf flag, so should that be a concern, you would need to use printf '%+2s'|tr ' ' 0 instead.)
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 No.9484

>Our task is not to champion the degrading of linux to the level of an itoddler, but to raise the itoddler to the level of linux users - Vladimir Stallman

Clearly vanguardism has failed, and the great masses are simply too stupid to not fall head first into the first walled garden they stumble on.
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 No.9488

>>9472
doggy tongues.

>>9474
i packed up when vlc filled my ssd with a 30gb log file a debian wouldn't boot without free space

>>9475
imagine this mindset applied to car manufacturing, where car nuts had democratic control of car design and no external force pushing for simpler models. for things to progress it seems there needs to be a reward system to push people out of old ways of thinking. the people in positions to change things are happy the way they are.

>>9484
the revolution failed brother and so has desktop linux
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 No.9489

How do you fuck up using Ubuntu, it's literally as user-friendly as any other OS at this point.
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 No.9496

Macfag aristocracy have been totally bought off with anodized aluminum, no ports, rouded icons, and flatshit UI.
They're fundamentally reactionary and won't struggle for their own freedom, let alone anyone elses.
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 No.9499

Desktop Linux =/= FOSS =/= Communism. This argument makes literally no sense, but I'll give it an 8/10 because people are replying to it.

Also, just from my personal experience of somebody dual-booting Ubuntu and Windows 10, Windows is way more fucky than Ubuntu. Some time ago I kept on getting some driver power state error and nowadays my Internet connection on Windows is so unstable that it's pretty much unusable. I've basically given up on trying to fix it because it's probably just easier to download whatever I need on the Linux partition and then copy it over to Windows partition.
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 No.9503

>>9471
>i'm a programmer myself and i tried to use it for a year and found it a disaster.
>>9488
>i packed up when vlc filled my ssd with a 30gb log file a debian wouldn't boot without free space
System borked because couldn't rotate a log (and vlc at that, wtf are you even doing with it to log that much).
Clear trolling, gb2 2005 slashdot.
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 No.9508

>>9496
Bears repeating. There's a lot of macshit entryism into free software through webfags and they manage to infect some of the more superficial and normie-leaning programmers too. They should always be held at arms length and not allowed to spread their FUD about "le unix OSX just like linux". OSX is far more like Windows and other proprietary crap than it will ever be like Linux.
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 No.9510

>>9503
Indeed, the situation seems very unlikely.
Nevertheless the distro would also be at fault for not having a separate partition for logfiles.
Every time I forget to tone down the loglevel of the tor daemon on install, it just breaks the package manager and some daemons.
This is the state of "user friendly" Linux! I believe even Windows defaults to having a partition for logs and caches.
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 No.9520

anyone want to discuss free software's failure to liberate users and personal commuting? its lost on all fronts and has only assisted big corporations. people can spout ideology or say the people are wrong for wanting what they want but capital doesn't, they adapt to what is and come out ahead.

is it just funding and advertising that has caused its failure?

from what I can see plenty of man hours have been put into it, just without coordination or vision.
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 No.9522

>>9520
Why don't you go back to dreaming about revolution and what scarf to match with your balaclava at the next protest, instead of whining about the only industry that has managed to fight and create a huge moneyless market of high-quality products, and a culture of sharing so ingrained that it pretty much out-competed and weakened or killed off several corporations.
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 No.9528

>>9522
free software existing at all is a huge achievement but the industry as a whole is one of the worst.

developers sharing between themselves isn't any different than scientists sharing their data. how moral does a scientist become once the work they've done, with good intentions, only exists for corporate control and rent seeking? Many will go into the scientific field for the good of humanity but without influence of the wider systems that control their achievements their work can be hijacked for questionable good.

the hackers that brought linux where it is, did so for user control and freedom, instead it exists now only as free labour for the same spyware, locked bootloader, addict design tech.

the soviets failed, free software failed, the left is failing. all of which seem to have similar issues. seems to me working out why is whats needed.
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 No.9529

File: 1624289056403-0.png ( 36.7 KB , 848x162 , open_v_closed.png )

File: 1624289056403-1.png ( 97.16 KB , 768x256 , apple_cucks.png )

Beware the macfag. They have the worst slave morality I have ever seen.

They want their master to be the only master.
They fear and distrust developers, and will only relate to them though a ridged neoliberal marketplace of fetishized ratings.

They'd chop their own fucking legs off, if it ensured nobody else had freedom to move around.
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 No.9530

>>9528
follow up.

in my opinion the community is too afraid to make choices on behalf of the user. people want to go down beaten paths, they would prefer a UI designed to be used a certain way, than a configurable free for all that tries to please everyone.

free software should be able to do this better than apple, if they make any mistakes in what to cut the community can add it back for themselves.

I think developers perspective gets distorted by the community which are in no way a representation of the populace.

I'm reminded of orwells quote about the left “One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist, and feminist in England.”

the arch/antix user has very little in common with the average user but is very opinionated on it and will become the loudest voice. it cant be easy for a developer to make something that would suit a hypothetical normal user when they've got an existing group of weirdos supporting them.

I think the gnome foundations tries the best to do this but makes a lot of odd choices in doing so. It needs to test its ideas a lot more than it does but its nice to see them attempting innovation and a sleek design.

Firefox is the most impressive of the lot, I like its new UI as well. Unfortunately it doesnt differ in any real way from what its competing against. I see no reason to suggest it to others and don't really believe their claims of improved privacy.

>>9529
never used a mac. would happily make an ipad my main machine if it was free software. I'd prefer something predictably limited than the constant new issues of a shoe string budget trying to do everything.
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 No.9531

>>9529
also slave morality would be doing the opposite of apple because they're the leaders.
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 No.9533

>>9530
>Choices on behalf of the user
Yes some choices are very, dare I say, stupid. There's a popular meme about linux UI/freetard graphic design and etc. I would say arrogance too, detachment from what users actually desire, mixed with a degree of narcissism "I'm gonna make my own le-arch-forkerinOS" instead of contributing to something already great
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 No.9554

>>9529
They are absolutely pathetic.
Never forget that Apple was in danger of going out of business in the 90s and they were kept afloat only due to the sheer cuckedness of their fans who kept throwing money at their overpriced and outdated (especially classic MacOS) products just because of the rainbow apple logo. And apple doesn't even treat these users well, sometimes even going to the extent of suing some blogger appletard users for sharing product rumours.
I don't think it's possible for there to be a more examplary epitome of corporate bootlicking than macfags. They don't just do it for free, they literally pay premium prices from their own pockets for it.
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 No.9555

>>9384
You can with third party programs, I use AlwaysOnTop.
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 No.9556

I tried switching to Debian a few years ago and really liked it but no matter what I tried my G13 refused to work with it, and I rely on that too much. If only there was a G13 with on-board memory for the keys.

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