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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1663456633520.png ( 97.9 KB , 1599x1066 , Flag_of_the_Miner's_Divisi….png )

 No.457563[Last 50 Posts]

Last one is full and the worst thread on leftychan must be contained.

In recent news: Ukies done a successful counteroffensive in Izium, Z gang now in shambles. Biden promises even more money for Ukraine. Putin meets Xi, Erdogan, Modi and others at the SCO summit.


Pro-Russia sources:
https://nitter.net/RWApodcast
https://nitter.net/mdfzeh
https://nitter.net/AZmilitary1
https://nitter.net/wargonzoo
https://nitter.net/TheHumanFund5
https://t.me/intelslava
https://t.me/asbmil
https://t.me/vorposte

Pro-Ukraine sources:
Everywhere else
>>

 No.476593

>>476589
Yeah it's tempting to taunt them for seeking peace negotiations, after 2 years of "attack until total victory". As an "we told you so". Still we shouldn't poo poo peace negotiations, if those are indeed earnest. The motivations are probably not very noble either. They probably want to close the front with Russia in order to focus more arms-supplies to the Zionreich.

It kinda feels like switching off the Ukraine war would be good, because then we can focus on halting the big slaughter in occupied Palestine.
>>

 No.476621

File: 1699259845660.jpg ( 2.5 KB , 127x108 , sad bugs.jpg )

I miss propaganda-kun.
>>

 No.476623

File: 1699291419485.jpg ( 130.39 KB , 998x481 , 1699291410775.jpg )

>>476621
He's a real woman in heaven now, anon. Just not on his gravestone
>>

 No.476626

>>476621
The Ukraine war is lost. Even Ukrainian officials are now admitting it. If the US and EU don't force Zelensky to make a deal with the Russians. Russia will slowly gobble up more parts of Ukraine until only the western parts around Lviv are left over. I'm basing this speculation about Russian intentions on their rhetoric about what parts of Ukraine they consider to be historically Russian.

So the propaganda-kun declaring with great confidence that Ukraine is about to woopediwoop the Russian military, no longer serves a purpose. Besides Israel is generating so much headlines that the Loss in Ukraine is being overshadowed.
>>

 No.476627

File: 1699304504694.jpg ( 37.6 KB , 754x559 , theory of victory.jpg )

They're at it again, It's not a defeat it's just a different kind of victory.
>>

 No.476628

File: 1699305427100.jpg ( 27.24 KB , 384x577 , Maxim Goldarb.jpg )

Ukranian SBU is hunting more political opposition

Maxim Goldarb who is part of the "Union of left forces party" (not sure if that name is 100% correct) in Ukraine and legal scholar, has been writing articles for western news sites, where he advocated for a peace process.

Considering that there is a real possibility for a radical change in government in Ukraine, on account of them loosing the war, it seems unwise to make more political enemies.
>>

 No.476629

>>476628
So what happened to Maxim Putin-kun
>>

 No.476630

>>476629
They did intimidation harassment and they are accusing him of aiding "the aggressor" via "information activities", by which they mean him publishing journalistic articles that promote peaceful conflict resolution.

They're punishing this guy for having a conscience. Meanwhile actual Russian spies most likely posing as "Slava Ukrani" right-wingers are probably happily infiltrating deep into the Ukro-state preparing the ground for the post-war regime change bugaloo.

The repression against journalism related stuff is kind of teaching me that the liberal idea of a fifth estate is incomplete. You need to pair journalists with heavily armed commando units that enforce press freedom. You know civil liberty backed up by deterrence capacity.
>>

 No.476644

>>474640
Because a victory for Ukrainian Nazis in this war just means Ukraine is subsumed into globohomo, not the rise of the fourth reich.
>>

 No.476645

>>475032
>Putting a soyjak over them won't make them go away.
https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop
apparently it did, lol
seethe NAFO faggot
>>

 No.476679

Ukrainian military officer coordinated Nord Stream pipeline attack

<A senior Ukrainian military officer with deep ties to the country’s intelligence services played a central role in the bombing of the Nord Stream natural gas pipeline last year, according to officials in Ukraine and elsewhere in Europe, as well as other people knowledgeable about the details of the covert operation.


<The officer’s role provides the most direct evidence to date tying Ukraine’s military and security leadership to a controversial act of sabotage that has spawned multiple criminal investigations and that U.S. and Western officials have called a dangerous attack on Europe’s energy infrastructure.


<Roman Chervinsky, a decorated 48-year-old colonel who served in Ukraine’s Special Operations Forces, was the “coordinator” of the Nord Stream operation, people familiar with his role said, managing logistics and support for a six-person team that rented a sailboat under false identities and used deep-sea diving equipment to place explosive charges on the gas pipelines.


<Chervinsky denied any role in the sabotage of the pipelines.


<But the Nord Stream operation was designed to keep Zelensky out of the loop, people familiar with the operation said.

<“All of those involved in planning and execution reported directly to [chief of defense] Zaluzhnyy, so Zelensky wouldn’t have known about it,” according to intelligence reporting obtained by the CIA

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/11/11/nordstream-bombing-ukraine-chervinsky/

It seems that they are making an Spy(Chervinsky) and a General(Zaluzhnyy) from Ukraine the fall-guys for Nordstream and they're going with the 6 guys and a boat story. Interestingly they're protecting Zelensky.

Does that mean they're preparing to wrap up the Ukraine war ? If Ukraine bombed the pipeline that in part also belonged to Germany, it means that Germany now has a convenient political rational to stop supporting Ukraine's war effort, because technically Ukraine attacked German infrastructure.

I still think that US and Norway did NS2 but if it means this war finally ends, it might be worth going along with this story and correct the historic record at a later date. Can you end a war with a lie ?
>>

 No.476680

>>476679
This doesn't politically challenge the US enough. But even this limited defeat can be used as a propaganda talking point. I'm waiting to get drafted so I can do praxis in Israel with my beloved rotc fags now officers
>>

 No.476681

>>476679
>according to intelligence reporting obtained by the CIA
It's lines like this that I expect from the Onion. Love when Bezos's Rag doesn't even make any pretense at independent reporting and verification.
>>

 No.476682

>>476680
>This doesn't politically challenge the US enough.
For that to happen there would have to be:
- A witness from the involved military circles willing to testify.
- The German government making a big international incident out of this.
- Technically the Russian government could retaliate in kind and fuck up a US pipeline, which would force the US to either declare war against Russia or admit that Russia retaliated against US aggression.

I doubt the Russians are willing to play hard-ball like that. They might have sufficient evidence to embarrass the US and they're keeping this as a bargaining chip they can play later.
I don't quite understand the German position, they swallowed this, but they don't appear to have gotten anything in return for that, at least not yet.
A witness coming forward is always a unpredictable wild-card, they would have to find political allies willing to protect them.

>But even this limited defeat can be used as a propaganda talking point

Sure but the public attention train has moved on, so don't expect big wins.
>>

 No.476683

>>476681
>It's lines like this that I expect from the Onion. Love when Bezos's Rag doesn't even make any pretense at independent reporting and verification.
Yeah reality is now competing with satire.
>>

 No.476704

where's the insane hohol that used to post here?
did poland deport him back to ukroland to clear minefields?
>>

 No.476706

>>476704
>where's the insane hohol that used to post here?
He might have been from Canada (based on time-stamps in screenshots he posted). It's possible he was a clickfarm-glowie that shit-posted on this site to bolster his propaganda quota. Others have speculated that he was from Ukraine and stopped posting because he got drafted RIP.

Maybe not knowing is better. If he went splat because he was forced to take a artillery shell in the face in some Ukrainian meat-grinder town or a mine made him jump up in the air and then disperse him self over a wide area, would you really want to know ?
>>

 No.476707

>>476705
>I hate reddit so much.
Putting cheery music on war-footage is a bit cringe indeed
>>

 No.476713

File: 1699854732845.jpg ( 283.49 KB , 1170x660 , UN-vote-to-end-Cuba-embarg….jpg )

Some news that slipped under the radar recently.
>>

 No.476715

>>476713
Buy the world supports the sanctions against Russia vatnik.
>>

 No.476716

>>476715
ESL bargain bin propaganda kun incoming
>>

 No.476718

>>476716
>autocorrect typos = ESL
Gotta take those emersion courses your troll farm boss sends you to more seriously Vatnik.
>>

 No.476719

>>476715
Except it doesn't, rofl
>>

 No.476720

>>476719
Yes it does, the whole world was against the Ukraine invasion
>>

 No.476721

>>476715
>the world supports the sanctions against Russia
The majority of countries did not sanction Russia, so that is wrong.

>>476720
>the whole world was against the Ukraine invasion
You are trying move the goal-post and technically this is still wrong, a number of countries publicly did fully support Russia. Off the top of my head Syria and the DPRK.
>>

 No.476729

>>476718
>emersion courses
immersion, dumb ESL hohol.
>>

 No.476732

>>476729
zelensky is barely paying him go easy. it's hard your first day on the job
>>

 No.476735

So it seems there was a recent move to sack some Ukrainian generals. Are we finally approaching the Hitler-in-a-bunker phase?
>>

 No.476738

File: 1700048544860.png ( 310.81 KB , 697x444 , 1699711339943593.png )

>>476735
what do you mean approaching?
>>

 No.476806

File: 1700332978616.jpg ( 17.12 KB , 480x360 , 1700161940316339.jpg )

>>476738
I'm approaching your moms anus with my tongue.
>>

 No.476809

>>476738
Yeah Zelensky did recently give off Führerbunker vibes
>>

 No.476810

File: 1700340551180.jpg ( 134.61 KB , 1600x1290 , mum.jpg )

>>476806
someone has to do it so I'm glad it's you ukrop kun
>>

 No.476818

>>476809
He's been purging the intelligence services and military leadership of anyone not loyal to him. He says Russia is planning a coup against him called "Maidan 3". Implying two things 1) that Maidan was a coup, 2) that Zaluzhny (only person who could do a coup) is a Russian agent.
>>

 No.476820

>>476818
>He's been purging the intelligence services and military leadership of anyone not loyal to him.
So he's creating an internal enemy and is giving it the incentive to plot against him. Yeah that's kinda stupid. Clever state-craft is based on appointing the trusted personal to important positions and all those that can't be trusted get busywork somewhere irrelevant.

>He says Russia is planning a coup against him called "Maidan 3"

I think the Russians are still open to a negotiated end of the war, but only if the US makes credible assurances to back off from Ukraine. That scenario is not looking very likely, but that probably would mean that Zelensky could remain as president. Tho the Russians would certainly insist that he restores the electoral processes, and it's dubious whether Zelensky would get re-elected. Considering that he campaigned on making peace with Russia.

The more likely scenario is that all negotiations fail and the Russians apply military pressure until the Ukrainian state collapses. Which technically would not be a coup, because that's destroying a state not replacing it's leadership via a military conspiracy. What that will look like, who knows, Ukraine might shrink to Lviv + the surrounding areas.

>Implying two things

>1) that Maidan was a coup,
Your are talking about the 2014 happenings, technically that was a regime change operation, because the armed fascist groups like Azov weren't Ukrainian military at that point, they were US proxy forces. So technically not a coup.
>2) that Zaluzhny (only person who could do a coup) is a Russian agent.
If Zelensky thinks that he's delusional, Zaluzhny seemed to be the guy that was pushing back against the retarded ukro military strategy that made them loose the war so hard.
>>

 No.476848

File: 1700605766750.mp4 ( 389.35 KB , 688x1280 , uw7puc.mp4 )

Good afternoon, I hate Ziggers, and goodnight Polina, may you rest in shit.
>>

 No.476849

>>476848
are you that slightly unhinged ukrop anon ?
you back from the front ?
>>

 No.476856

File: 1700643533572.jpeg ( 294.39 KB , 1284x1843 , Stealth_20231122_004337.jpeg )

>>476848
>only Ukrainian "win" in the past month is killing an actress
>>

 No.476861

>>476856
Yeah shit's bleak for Ukraine, especially since they're now gearing up for total demographic depletion. They're preparing to feed the remainder of their young people into the meat-grinder.

Check out Mercouris' video on that
https://farside.link/invidious/watch?v=zK70pqqnhvE

At least someone took a dump on Bandera's grave apparently.
>>

 No.476862

>>476861
>At least someone took a dump on Bandera's grave apparently.
Source?
>>

 No.476863

File: 1700697703395.webm ( 802.09 KB , 720x1280 , bandera-grave-dump.webm )

>>476862
>Source?
pause the video at 10 seconds to get a better look, if you're not too squeamish.
>>

 No.476864

>>476856
Yes, and Ukraine is fighting with exclusively child soldiers and old men, so when is Russia taking Avdiivka?
>>

 No.476865

>>476864
>when is Russia taking Avdiivka?
they're doing it as we speak
>Russia holds the high ground north and south
>Russia is flying bombing missions over Avdeevka (this means no Ukrop AA or even MANPADS are there)
>Russia has sent tanks to the southern industrial district and they are doing work unopposed
>two Ukrop brigades have left Avdeevka already
Avdeevka is a fortress like Bakhmut, because it was part of the front line for the past 9 years. If Zelensky gave the order to hold it at all costs, this means Russians will have to clear the city house by house, apartment by apartment, room by room, like they did in Bakhmut, this takes time.
>>

 No.476866

>>476865
>they're doing it as we speak
They've been at it for about as long as the war has been on. When can we expect them to take it? Half a month?
>Avdeevka is a fortress like Bakhmut
Ah, yes, the Giga Hyperdimensional Fortress Avdiivka. Please note that this is after the Russian military has totally and definitely destroyed the UA airforce ten times over, every HIMARS twice, and killed close to 20000000 Ukrainian soldiers and NATO mercenaries.
>>

 No.476867

>>476866
Ukraine has lost an entire generation of young men by throwing it in a meat grinder (and coming soon: women) and you're still trying to minimize Russian success. Really makes you think.
>>

 No.476868

>>476867
What? I'm saying Russia has definitely, totally, and undeniably won, and therefore it should be absolutely no problem for them to end this war this very moment, just like the war was to end after Bakhmut because Ukraine was out of soldiers. If this feels like minimizing Russian "success" to you, then it's probably because you know all of that shit is made up.
>>

 No.476869

>>476867
>Ukraine has lost an entire generation of young men by throwing it in a meat grinder (and coming soon: women)
It's a brutal evolutionary process called survival of the draft-evaders

>Russian success.

I don't know if you can call this outcome a full success. Russia is certainly winning the war, but then again there never was any real possibility for Ukraine to win a industrial war against Russia, that was a forgone conclusion. The best possible outcome would have been a diplomatic resolution during the diplomatic phases that preceded the 2022 escalation from civil war to direct military confrontation. In the geo-political arena the Russian ability to deplete western military resources, the denial of Nato expansion and their ability to have economic growth despite sanctions is probably their biggest win.

Overall they came out on top, but lets not forget that the Russians also lost a bunch of people. Their losses are far smaller than Ukraine's but still.

>>476868
>I'm saying Russia has definitely, totally, and undeniably won
Yes Russia defeated Ukraine without question, but Ukraine and Russia are not the only players.
>and therefore it should be absolutely no problem for them to end this war this very moment
For the war to end, Russia and the US have to come to some kind of agreement.
>>

 No.476871

>>476866
>after the Russian military has totally and definitely destroyed the UA airforce ten times over, every HIMARS twice, and killed close to 20000000 Ukrainian soldiers and NATO mercenaries.
Pure projection. Ukraine is the one claiming to have killed+wounded not only more people than Russia has in Ukraine, but more than the total number of soldiers in the Russian armed forces. They also claim to have destroyed more tanks and artillery than Russia has in its whole army.

This begs the question: who is Ukraine fighting and how come they haven't taken Crimea back yet?

>Steineskys counter-attack is coming!

I bet Hitler thought he was winning up until the very end.
>>

 No.476872

File: 1700777454073-0.png ( 128.69 KB , 1080x1368 , lollers.png )

File: 1700777454073-1.png ( 118.26 KB , 1080x1863 , zozzers.png )

>>476871
forgot pics
>>

 No.476873

File: 1700779797792.png ( 11.45 KB , 363x264 , RU-Stormtrooper.png )

Russians Use Underground Tunnels To Storm Ukrainian Strongholds In Avdeevka

<The Russian military shared footage of the ongoing operations in Avdeevka

<The attack began with the detonation of 500 kg of a high-explosive shell that was delivered through an underground tunnel under Ukrainian positions and planted near Ukrainian stronghold in advance. The next day, Russian stormtroopers passed through the tunnels and penetrated into the defense

https://southfront.press/in-video-russians-use-underground-tunnels-to-storm-ukrainian-strongholds-in-avdeevka/
<The video in the link shows an assault operation by the Pyatnashka International Brigade, famous volunteer formation under the command of Darth Avidzba.

Tunnel warfare is back, no blasters tho
>>

 No.476875

>>476869
>For the war to end, Russia and the US have to come to some kind of agreement.
The US is not a party to the war. Honestly, though, Putin is such a troll not ending the war even though Ukraine has absolutely been defeated and is now basically fighting with nothing. Very strange. It's like a little joke.
>>

 No.476876

>>476871
>This begs the question: who is Ukraine fighting and how come they haven't taken Crimea back yet?
Supposedly the second strongest military on earth. Obviously it isn't that they are having success in the battlefield, but simply that the eyebrow has not been raised far enough.

>>476872
That's an independent site, which notably does not track according to UKR MoD numbers.
>>

 No.476877

>>476875
>The US is not a party to the war.
Of course they are, they're the biggest source of funding for the Ukrainian government. And therefore they have most of the power over it. The US also supplies a huge part of the weapons and battlefield intelligence.

If one subtracted US influence over Ukraine, the war would cease.

>not ending the war

>Ukraine has absolutely been defeated
The Russians are not going to relent until they can extract a guaranty from the US to never again try to NATO-fy Ukraine. If they can't get that, they'll wreck Ukraine, until it can't be weaponized against anybody.

It seems that there still are some remaining US strategists looking for an out where they can press the pause button now and try again later. They're probably thinking about rearming and rebuilding Ukraine enough to try this again in a decade or two. That's likely the sticking point that keeps this war going.
>>

 No.476878

File: 1700828111784-0.png ( 171.33 KB , 1080x1853 , specopsforces.png )

File: 1700828111784-1.png ( 69.25 KB , 1080x837 , specops.png )

File: 1700828111784-2.png ( 408.24 KB , 1080x2138 , specopsua.png )

>>476876
>That's an independent site, which notably does not track according to UKR MoD numbers.
It's run by the "Special Operations Forces of Ukraine" which is a BRANCH OF THE UA MILITATY. They get their numbers from the Ukrainian MoD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Operations_Forces_(Ukraine)

When the Ukrop MoD says shit like "300 Russians killed, 50 tanks destroyed" it adds up. They usually claim they've killed hundreds of Russians per day, multiply it by the number of days in the war and you arrive at 322.000. Actually, the average works out to about 400 per day. They claim to have killed 1100 yesterday, so 400 is actually a low figure for them.

Keep coping.
>>

 No.476879

>>476877
>Of course they are,
They aren't. There are no US troops involved in the conflict, and if that is the case, why doesn't Russia attack the US?
>The Russians are not going to relent until they can extract a guaranty from the US
They're not fighting the US, and it's not up to the US whether the Ukrainians stop fighting.
>>

 No.476880

>>476878
>It's run by the "Special Operations Forces of Ukraine"
There's no evidence of that, since the MoD is putting out different numbers. It's funny that you only quote Ukrainian propaganda when it suits you instead of official numbers by the MoD or other intelligence agencies, kek.
>>

 No.476881

>>476880
>There's no evidence of that,
IT SAYS ON THE TOP AND BOTTOM OF THE WEBSITE YOU FUCKING RETARD.
>>

 No.476882

File: 1700843641340.jpg ( 119.24 KB , 1073x1305 , Stealth_20231124_173307.jpg )

>>476880
Here's the official MoD numbers from r/ukraine. Surprise! It's the same.
>>

 No.476883

>>476879
How can you possibly deny at this point that the US is using Ukraine as a proxy against Russia. Even the mainstream media is not trying to hide that anymore. Stop trying to uphold the propaganda line from a year ago.

There is no way to get a negotiated peace in Ukraine unless the US and the Russians come to an agreement. It would be better if that could be done before Ukraine sacrifices more people.

Do you realize that you are promoting the outcome where the West forces Ukraine to fight until total defeat, and by extension grant the Russians the ability to unilaterally dictate peace terms and completely freeze out the US and EU influence from that part of the world. Possibly indefinitely.
>>

 No.476884

>>476881
It says "With the help of…" That's not an official site. This is why I don't personally use any Ukrainian website and instead rely on independent observers. UK MoD and US DoD estimates are probably more accurate.
>>

 No.476885

>>476883
You're now making another claim, and it also fails because Russia could simply leave Ukraine and end the war. This is a war of choice. Again, the US is not a party to the conflict. If it is, then Russia is a country of cucked pussies that resist attacking those that attack them, kek.
>>

 No.476886

>>476885
>Russia could simply leave Ukraine and end the war. This is a war of choice.
Sometime psychopaths impose an ultimatum on their victims but call it choice. It's like a strange thing where the words say the opposite of what they mean to say.

When the US regime-changed Ukraine and began the process of Nato integration, they gave Russia an ultimatum: Either submit to US imperial dominance, which would have resulted in Russia getting balkanized into lots of little ethno-nationalist vassal regimes that facilitate resource extraction. Or Russia could go ahead and wreck Ukraine to neutralize it as a US-lever to break up Russia.

Neither of these options can be considered a choice. Choices are given to you by people who consider you as their equal, not people who try to subjugate you.

The US knew that regime changing Ukraine would cause war. They chose to do that because they thought that it would weaken Russia. They thought the sanctions plus military expenses would collapse their economy and allow the US to regime change Russia. Turns out they were wrong about that, just a bunch of Neo-cons huffing their own exceptionalism farts.

>Russia is a country of cucked pussies that resist attacking those that attack them, kek

A direct hot war between Russia and the US would most likely lead to WW3 and full scale nuclear annihilation of human civilization. You are deranged for attempting to bait the Russians into an omnicidal war.
>>

 No.476887

>>476886
>Sometime psychopaths impose an ultimatum on their victims but call it choice.
This is not that time. Russia could just go back. It's that easy. However, as they have already won this war and completely destroyed the Ukrainian military, it should be absolutely no problem for them to take the rest. Let's go, we're waiting to see it.
>When the US regime-changed Ukraine
Didn't. No matter how much you say it.
>Either submit to US imperial dominance
No, just don't invade Ukraine. They also had started movement to take Crimea before their puppet was removed, kek.
>Neither of these options can be considered a choice.
Yeah, Russia could have just not invaded Ukraine. That would not have led to a breakup of Russia. A disastrous war, on the other hand, might.
>The US knew that regime changing Ukraine would cause war
No, and they didn't do that. Again, change in Ukrainian government does not imply a need for Russian invasion unless you believe that all countries bordering Russia have to do what those faggots say.
>A direct hot war between Russia and the US would most likely lead to WW3
Okay, so thanks for finally admitting that the US is not a party to this conflict.
>>

 No.476888

Good evening, Pidors. I hate ziggers.
>>

 No.476889

>>476887
Bruh, the pentagon published (through RAND corporation) a strategy paper where they describe this strategy of implicating Russia in a Ukraine war to deplete it's military and economic stamina. You're not contradicting me, you're contradicting the US government.

>Russia should take the rest of Ukraine

>Let's go, we're waiting to see it.
I would like the US and Russia to negotiate peace. You seem too eager for more war. If this war is decided on the battlefield however i wouldn't expect Russia to rush anything, time appears to be on their side.

>I deny that the US regime-changed Ukraine

Too bad that Blinken and Nuland already admitted it.

>just don't invade Ukraine

Same goes for the US, just don't regime change Ukraine, they couldn't help them selves on that one either.
You're not making much sense, if one great power starts messing with a country, other great powers tend to "join the party". I understand that your goal is to argue that only the US is allowed to fuck with other countries, a sentiment which you express by pretending that it didn't happen. But you can't expect the Russians to play by US rules.

>Again, change in Ukrainian government does not imply

The reality is that countries situated in-between big power blocks only get peace & prosperity if they stay neutral and play those powers off each other. They have to be "neutral buffers" to survive. The moment a country in such a position aligns with one side or the other, they're fucked because they just became a sacrificial pawn. Everything else is just idealist bullshit.

>the US is not a party to this conflict.

The US is a global empire they're party in 3/4 of all conflicts, including this one, especially because they instigated it. Being implicated in a war does not necessarily require direct battle confrontation, it's like you're deliberately trying to ignore the concept of proxy wars. Like the cold war between the West and the Soviet Union, that didn't happen according to you ? Those were just random countries having massive internal wars that just happen to involve lots of US and Soviet military equipment on opposing side by coincidence. Ridiculous !
>>

 No.476892

>>476889
>a strategy paper where they describe this strategy of implicating Russia in a Ukraine war to deplete it's military and economic stamina
Damn, seems like Russia shouldn't take the bait and not start a war. Also, I want source on that paper.
>I would like the US and Russia to negotiate peace.
And I want that peace to include the removal of all Russian troops from recognized Ukrainian territory. Moscow should simply leave.
>Too bad that Blinken and Nuland already admitted it.
They didn't, and you didn't listen to the call or the fact that the Ukrainians were pressed into signing Minsk by the west. Let's ignore that part, though.
>Same goes for the US, just don't regime change Ukraine,
Congratulations, the US didn't.
>The reality is that countries situated in-between big power blocks only get peace & prosperity if they stay neutral
Ukraine was neutral until Russia started annexing parts of its territory and funding terror groups in its territory.
>The US is a global empire they're party in 3/4 of all conflicts
Don't see any American troops fighting in Ukraine. Still not a party to the conflict. If you think this is the case, then Russia should be attacking Ukraine aid at the source. They won't, though, because that would actually make the US a party to the conflict.
>>

 No.476897

File: 1700917395592.jpg ( 142.96 KB , 1056x594 , 1700913333574091.jpg )

>Mein Führer…

>The Schweiner counter-attack…
>>

 No.476899

>>476892
>Russia shouldn't take the bait
The Russia-Ukraine border represents a strategic weak-spot for Russia, they couldn't afford to ignore the US setting up shop in Ukraine. Bare in mind that the Russians did ignore Finland's entry to Nato, because in that case they could since that doesn't put pressure on a weak-spot.
>I want that peace to include the removal of all Russian troops from recognized Ukrainian territory
That was the deal with the Minsk 1&2 agreements as well as the Istanbul peace talks. Those got intentionally sabotaged because peace was never the intention, the neocons wanted this war to happen because they thought it'd weaken Russia. In the end the only goal the neocons achieved was separating Russo-German economic cooperation and stealing public funding for their buddies in the war-industry and shale-gas industry. The RU-GER split is probably temporary in historical terms and everything else pretty much went the opposite way of what they thought it was going to go. In the end they got a lot Ukrainians killed, wrecked the EU economy and squandered a lot of US imperial influence.
>They didn't
Yes Nuland and Blinken admitted to regime changing Ukraine in 2014, they even specifically decided on what people to put in certain political positions ahead of time. They also bragged about bombing the Nordstream2 pipeline. You'd have to be willfully ignorant to not see this.
>the fact that the Ukrainians were pressed into signing Minsk by the west
The intention was to buy time for re-arming Ukraine, even the Former Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel published an article where she explicitly said exactly that.
>Congratulations, the US didn't.
It's beyond obvious that they did, why try to keep denying it ?
>Ukraine was neutral until
until the 2014 Euromaidan got hijacked by a CIA color revolution regime change operation. I'd say the Kiev Massacre was the inflection point where they lost their neutrality and became a US Vassal.
>Don't see any American troops fighting in Ukraine.
The US does have military personal in Ukraine, so you're even technically incorrect here. You should stop playing dumb and pretend that proxy-wars aren't a thing.
>then Russia should be attacking Ukraine aid at the source
So basically you want Russia to attack the US and Europe ?
In your opinion what exactly should they attack to make the aid to Ukraine stop ?
I get the impression that you want this, do you have some kind of apocalypse fetish or something ?
>They won't, though, because
starting WW3 seems like a reckless thing to do
>>

 No.476900

>>476899
>The Russia-Ukraine border represents a strategic weak-spot for Russia
Russia has nuclear weapons. Nobody is going to invade them.
>That was the deal with the Minsk 1&2 agreements
And the Russians never removed their troops, so any agreement must be able to be enforced.
>Yes Nuland and Blinken admitted to regime changing Ukraine
This didn't happen, no matter how many times you lie.
>The intention was to buy time for re-arming Ukraine
Some in Ukraine saw it that way. Good thing they did, as Russia was planning to invade.
>It's beyond obvious that they did, why try to keep denying it ?
It's not, and you have never shown this to be the case. All you have is one phone call that you didn't listen to about diplomats doing the usual diplomat things.
>until the 2014 Euromaidan got hijacked by a CIA
This didn't happen, and you have no evidence of CIA involvement.
>The US does have military personal in Ukraine,
Yes, guarding their embassy and tracking shipments. Notably not in combat. So no, I'm fully correct, and you're a fucking idiot that doesn't know the difference between presence in a country and being parties to a conflict.
>So basically you want Russia to attack the US and Europe ?
I mean, is that not what it means to be at war with a country? I would love to see the subhumans try, though.
>In your opinion what exactly should they attack to make the aid to Ukraine stop ?
Well, if I was Russian and thought I was at war with NATO, I would at least target these American troops in Ukraine.
>starting WW3 seems like a reckless thing to do
Okay, so then Russia is not at war with the US. Thanks for admitting, once again, that the US is not a party to the conflict.
>>

 No.476904

>>476900
>Russia has nuclear weapons. Nobody is going to invade them.
But if the US managed to fully pull Ukraine into NATO they could install nuclear weapons in Ukraine. This game remains the same even if you elevate it to the nuclear level. But i understand that you're not willing to recognize that Russia has security concerns, because recognizing those means foreclosing on the idea that the US could subjugate Russia. But Look at it this way, would the US allow Russia to install nukes in Cuba, Mexico or Canada? Ask your self what the US would do to preempt such an outcome.

Russia did not try to sink Minsk diplomacy. Because they could have officially recognized the People's Republic of Luhansk and Donetsk immediately after their formation. Then make a mutual defense pact with the newly formed republics. That could have fucked over Ukraine from the get go. Ukraine would have been out of options aside from officially declaring war against Russia by attacking one of their allies. The Russians did for 8 long years try to preserve the post-Soviet Ukrainian territory, with the only exception being Crimea. Taking that deal would have resulted in a much better outcome for Ukraine.

<Continued denial about the Ukro-regime change op by the Nuland and Blinken gang.

<Denial about US being the instigator of the Ukraine war.
<Denial about the concept of proxy wars.
It's pointless for you to remain stubborn on these points, it's not fooling anybody, at least you admit that neocon and their proxy forces abused the Minsk process as a delay tactic for military build up.

>Well, if I was Russian and thought I was at war with NATO, I would at least target these American troops in Ukraine.

The Russians did wipe out the so called reddit foreign legion, and they probably also did wipe out a high level meeting that included a bunch of US military personal. So they did that.

<not starting WW3 means

>Russia is not at war with the US
The US is waging a proxy war against Russia. That is not a war of total annihilation (which WW3 would be), but it is war none the less. Also the US is waging economic war, in the form of sanctions against Russia, those sanctions are considered weapons of war even if they aren't big metal objects with a military paint-job that makes lots of percussive noises when activated
>>

 No.476909

Ukraine sends women, the elderly to the front

<The Grayzone's Max Blumenthal and Aaron Mate cover the latest evidence of the collapse of Ukraine's military, and the quiet acceptance in Washington that the proxy war is lost.


https://farside.link/invidious/watch?v=yVOmOOPIE44
>>

 No.476910

>>476904
>>476904
>But if the US managed to fully pull Ukraine into NATO they could install nuclear weapons in Ukraine.
And it could do so in Finland, so should Russia invade Finland? Your whole argument fails from the start. This is a war of choice, and no amount of tl;dr cope is going to change that.
>>

 No.476915

File: 1701001849149-0.jpg ( 236.77 KB , 2199x1831 , 20231126_192605.jpg )

File: 1701001849149-1.jpg ( 55.07 KB , 1215x623 , 20231126_192650.jpg )

>Kek, we have a TUD situation here
Thanks Ukrainos for throwing yourself at Russia for NATO, the Clinton Wing of the DNC, and Raytheon
>>

 No.476916

>>476910
>And it could do so in Finland, so should Russia invade Finland?
If the US tried to do nuclear arms build-up in Finland, that would likely cause a war as well. Depending on the types of nukes, the Russians might get cornered and see no alternatives to begin missile strikes against US military buildup on their boarder. They would certainly try to interdict it. The Fins probably don't want to become a sacrificial pawn like Ukraine, so it probably won't ever come to that.

>This is a war of choice

What the US is regularly doing, specifically military build-up near the boarder of other countries, that is an act of war. Even by the official definition in international law.

How did you put it "your hole argument fails from the start" because you are trying to frame this hole debate in a way that it grants the US the right to aggression. Look at what the US does they plonk down loads of military bases all over the world right next to countries that never granted them the permission to do so. Suppose that another power like Russia did this to the US, begin installing a bunch of military bases right next the US, into strategically painful positions. What do you supposed the US reaction would be ?

a)Would they go: "Nah forget up it, that's fine, no danger here, we're totally OK with Russian military bases and nukes right in our faces"
b)Or perhaps their reaction would be a ferocious military response pulverizing the attempt with maximum prejudice.
>>

 No.476917

>>476880
>>476884
here's the MOD numbers, they're the same: >>476882
next cope please
>>

 No.476918

>>476917
show us the MoD numbers then
>>

 No.476919

>>476916
The US hasn't attacked Russia, ESL, nor is there any evidence, nor did Russia ever claim, that the US is planning to put nuclear weapons in Ukraine. This is cope because your little pet dictator chimped out and started a war he can't back out of. I, for one, simply welcome TOTAL ZIGGER DEATH. Furthermore, I consider that Russia must be destroyed.
>>

 No.476920

>>476918
here: >>476882
>inb4 "OH THE IMAGE IS FROM LEDDIT SO ITS FAKE!!"
no, don't even try that cope, i'll just preempt that by posting the ukrop MOD site: https://www.mil.gov.ua/en/news/2023/11/02/the-total-combat-losses-of-the-enemy-from-24-02-2022-to-02-11-2023/
>>

 No.476921

>>476919
>I, for one, simply welcome TOTAL ZIGGER DEATH. Furthermore, I consider that Russia must be destroyed.
nice impotent cuck rage, faggot
russia won and there's nothing you can do about it :^)
>>

 No.476923

>>476919
>The US hasn't attacked Russia,
The US is waging a proxy war against Russia.
>nor is there any evidence, nor did Russia ever claim, that the US is planning to put nuclear weapons in Ukraine.
Now that the Russian military is stomping through Ukraine that isn't an option anymore, but they would if they could.
>>

 No.476924

>>476920
it's the same numbers as here >>476882
and here >>476878 >>476872. what are you even arguing?
>>

 No.476925

>>476924
ukropanon tried to claim that the numbers weren't official, so i'm linking numbers straight from the ukrop MOD to see if he can cook up some cope about it
>>

 No.476927

>>476923
>The US is waging a proxy war against Russia.
And it wouldn't be doing so if Russia had stayed out of Ukraine.
>Now that the Russian military is stomping through Ukraine that isn't an option anymore, but they would if they could.
Again, there is no evidence. Russia moved nuclear weapons into Belarus, however, would NATO be justified in invading? Again, every zigger accusation is a confession.
>>

 No.476928

>>476927
>And it wouldn't be doing so if Russia had stayed out of Ukraine.
Well the US regime-changed Ukraine, in the end that's what "invited" the Russians to Ukraine.
You can't seriously make the argument that the US gets to overthrow governments and then preach to the Russians about staying out of other countries. That's too much hypocrisy.
>Russia moved nuclear weapons into Belarus,
Guess why they did that. There was an attempt at doing a color revolution to overthrow Lukashenko fairly recently. And when a large amount of NATO weapons started moving into the general direction of Belarus on account of the Ukraine-war, that probably raised fears about the Ukraine war serving as a means to spring a surprise invasion on Belarus.

>however, would NATO be justified in invading?

NATO is a tool to impose US foreign policy on Europe's foreign policy. The US's geopolitical games with Ukraine ended up weakening European security by making Europe sending half of it's military supplies to Ukraine. Germany had to accept getting one of their pipelines blown up by the US and Norway. Isn't that enough sacrifice ? Are you seriously asking the Euros to bleed in order to launch a pointless invasion against Belarus ?

You've got a strange view on things. Consider that expanding NATO after the dissolution of the Warsaw pact, was a very aggressive move. The Russians had agreed to remove all their troops from Eastern Europe, in exchange for the US to not expand NATO into that region. That promise was broken only after half a year. What possible justification could there be for the US to pile on more aggression by attempting to project military power against Belarus ?

If the Russians began installing nukes in Mexico for example, it would be understandable if the US was upset, and took military measures to frustrate that, but Belarus ain't the US's business.
>>

 No.476932

File: 1701071743206.jpg ( 100.55 KB , 1284x1058 , Stealth_20231127_085441.jpg )

Yhe purge continues…
>>

 No.476933

>>476932
>Stalin kills his entire office corp
<I sleep
>Zelensky fires four people
<Real shit!
Tankies should probably never bring up purges to anyone.
>>

 No.476934

>>476932
>Putin Murders his top commander.
>Look! Zelensky fired four people in the reserves, it's a purge!
LMAO vatniks.
>>

 No.476935

>>476933
>>476934
>four
In addition to the two from the security services, and the commander of the medical corps. That's 7 by my count.

Zaluzhny is gonna get purged also.
>>

 No.476936

How long until Zelensky is hanging from a tree? Place your bets lads.
>>

 No.476938

File: 1701129197421.mp4 ( 146.6 KB , 256x250 , stalin'.mp4 )

>>476933
>comparing Stalin with Zelensky
Bruh

Stalin was a successful revolutionary. He was a successful statesman that could navigate political intrigue. He was a successful geo-political strategist that oversaw the victory over fascism and the ascendance of the Soviet union into a global super-power, all the while the life-expectancy of the Soviet population doubled.

Zelensky was a reasonably good comedy actor, then he became a political puppet for Ukrainian oligarchs, after that he became a political puppet for transnational imperial capital. Under his tenure Ukraine got wrecked, it lost most of it's industrial base, it's military has been decimated and Ukraine lost about half of it's population either because it fled the war or was killed by it.

Stalin's legacy is that of mostly victory, while Zelensky's legacy is that of mostly failure.

If you want to point the finger at political repression, Zelensky is using it to sell out Ukraine, Stalin was using it to prevent something like that. While Stalin certainly has to be criticized for using political repression, you can hardly fault him on his motives. Stalin falls under the category of using reprehensible means for a noble goal. Zelensky just uses reprehensible means towards reprehensible ends.

The early period in the Soviet union was very brutal, but after the war, times got better. If the current regime in Ukraine could somehow magically win this War, nothing would improve for the population. With Ukraine having been sold out to transnational capital, the hell of war would be replaced by the hell of hyper-neoliberalism.
>>

 No.476939

>>476936
>How long until Zelensky is hanging from a tree? Place your bets lads.
Unless they decide to make him the Fallguy, he'll probably get extracted before the righteous anger of betrayed Ukrainians can find him. So if you are looking for the vicarious relief of seeing a bad guy getting a dose of unconventional justice, don't hold your breath.
>>

 No.476940

File: 1701133180248.jpg ( 229.06 KB , 800x1071 , 1701133054255.jpg )

>>476939
>Me so loyal USA. Me lobe you long taim-ACK
>>

 No.476942

>>476940
I'm not sure i understand the reference, who's the guy in the picture ?

Are you saying that the US will stab Zelensky in the back before long ?
>>

 No.476945

>>476942
That's the notoriously corrupt president of South Vietnam whose entire career predicated on doing whatever the US told him to do.
>>

 No.476946

>>476945
also assasinated by the cia for his failure in the vietnam war
>>

 No.476949

>>476945
thanks for the info.
>>476946
>also assasinated by the cia for his failure in the vietnam war
So you expect something analogous ? As in the CIA whacking Zelensky ?

I feel rather indifferent to that, because he suspended elections, so if he gets whacked, regardless by whom, it'll be in part his own doing because he made it impossible to unelect him. I know that bourgeois democracy isn't really democratic, but it does provide for non-lethal methods of unelecting leaders, which is, all else being equal, a preferable type of political competition.
>>

 No.477006

File: 1701337042613.png ( 317.95 KB , 486x764 , 1701331478872.png )

>You need to att-ACK!
>>

 No.477008

>>477006
Good grief.

Imagine how the other soldiers will take it.
<The pretty young woman that's nice to you gets murdered by a brutish officer.
<You chuck a grenade in the officers-tend and frag him.
<You still miss the nice girl, but you do feel a little bit better.

It would not surprise me if that unit ends up mutinying.
>>

 No.477011

>>476919
Why are you on here summarizing the mainstream take? Do you go around regurgitating every idea the ruling class puts out unquestionably?

Like seriously why can't you think for yourself?
>>

 No.477012

>>477008
what are you even talking about? lieutenant was pushing her pigs into the meat grinder and the major had a human reaction and killed the scum from this description.
>>

 No.477017

>>477012
>lieutenant was pushing her pigs into the meat grinder and the major had a human reaction and killed the scum from this description.
Now that you said it, i suppose that's a plausible interpretation as well.

There are 2 types of officers, the first one is the kind that leads from the spear-tip and the soldiers under his command follow his lead. And the second type is the one that leads from the rear.

The spear-tip officers are usually the relatively kind ones that try to prioritize keeping their men alive, but tend to advance slower. The rear-guard officers tend to be the ones driving their soldiers in front of them and motivate their soldiers to fight because going back means getting shot for treason.

Some military give their officers choice of leadership style, while others have a fixed doctrine. As far as i know the Ukrainian military has switched to the rear-guard officer doctrine at some point. The Soviets had the spear-tip officer doctrine.

The rear-guard officer doctrine tends to generate more callous assholes, that's why i jumped to the conclusion that the officer was the bad guy.
>>

 No.477019

>>477017
>The Soviets had the spear-tip officer doctrine.
This has definitely been passed on through modern Russian military culture. I'm not sure it's the case for the Ukrainian military though, which seems to be strongly influenced by American military conventions through the training that's been given by American officers since the Maidan coup.
>>

 No.477020

File: 1701417817020.webm ( 3.24 MB , 698x1240 , 1701416253008131.webm )

you may not like it, but this is what winning looks like
>>

 No.477027

>>477019
>This has definitely been passed on through modern Russian military culture
Mercouris has said that the Russian military continues using the spear-tip officers doctrine, but he didn't seem 100% sure about it.
>I'm not sure it's the case for the Ukrainian military though, which seems to be strongly influenced by American military conventions through the training that's been given by American officers since the Maidan coup.
The Ukrainian military definitely switched to officers in the rear, but there's no reliable way to find out what caused that change. But you are not wrong many people attribute this change to American influence.
>>

 No.477096

https://farside.link/invidious/watch?v=XHmePjyN4VI
Mercuries looks at testimony from Ukrainian soldiers, it's quite interesting.

Also the political class in Germany now wants nukes, they want it to be Euro-nukes but the implication is that Germany would more or less control it.

Mercuris thinks that Russia will never allow for that. He's correct in the sense that the Russians still feel the aftershock of WW2 in their bones, and will have an apocalyptic reaction to German attempts at wielding nukes.

However Euro-nukes would be produced in France, which isn't powerful enough to dominate Europe, the way Germany could. So a political configuration where the control over Euro-nukes is dispersed over all of Europe, is perhaps possible. Of course this version requires that Germany largely removes itself from trying to assume nuclear leadership. It would enable Europe to disconnect from US security politics, and ultimately could no longer be compelled by the US to take a hostile stance against Russia. Of course that doesn't mean that Euro ruling circles find other non-US related reasons to be hostile to Russia.

What i'm getting at here:
There are 2 version of Euro-nukes.

The first one is where Germany takes the lead and the purpose of that is to maximally antagonize Russia to create more tension and opportunity for war in Europe in order to keep the US involved in Europe. (whether that would motivate the US to remain engaged in Europe is questionable, the US might pull out of Europe in the next 10 years regardless what happens because they grow more interested in messing with Asia).

The second version of Euro-nukes.
This is where Europe gains the autonomy to create it's own security infrastructure. In this one Germany has to take a back-seat role, because of it's already very dominant station in Europe and the history of WW2. Of course the required politics currently do not exist in Europe. The only political purpose that nukes have, is creating deterrence. Nukes are holey incompatible with the kind of colonial thinking that appears to have persisted in some European ruling circles. Nukes are not a joker-card you can play for leverage in international relations to force other countries to comply with your demands. Nukes stop other countries from invading, but they do not make other countries do stuff for you. Politics of nuclear coercion, guaranties an outcome of nuclear proliferation, which is why nuclear politics have to be very restrained.
>>

 No.477097

File: 1701824692508.png ( 1.07 MB , 1242x1698 , ClipboardImage.png )

yikes
>>

 No.477099

>>477097
so what happened?
are the internal power struggles in Ukraine getting serious?
>>

 No.477119

According to two Ukrainian Telegram channels (which Mercouris seems to think are controlled by General Zaluzhnyi), Zelensky just "requested" (rather than ordered) Zaluzhnyi's resignation and his reply was to refuse, claim that he'll remain in his post because he's been doing a good job, and to threaten Zelensky if he tries to sack him. This is pretty clear insubordination, and it seems there's only one way Zaluzhnyi will get away with it: is it finally time for a coup?
>>

 No.477121

>>477119
While this situation seems to be coming to a head indeed. I'm not seeing Zelensky seriously trying to oust this guy yet. If a head of state wants to get rid of a bigwig military general they have to officially appoint a new guy, and then purge all the loyalists of the old guy, or it won't happen.

The US seems to favor Zaluzhnyi and probably would support him. But i doubt they want another coup, they probably would prefer to rig an election instead.
>>

 No.477124

>>477121
I would say that Zelensky has no choice now if he wanted to maintain any sort of credibility as head of state… except I'm reminded of that time he went to the Donbass and told Nazis to disarm and they refused right in his face.
>>

 No.477125

>>477124
You are correct, but Zelensky never was a strong political leader to begin with. He got plucked out of a TV show for having a lot of popularity and a recognizable face. He didn't spend years building up a political base. So he probably can't strongarm Zaluzhnyi to force him out.

Zelensky might remain formally head of state but with little actual power.

Given that the US is likely going to wind down funding for Ukraine soon, i wonder to which extend Zelensky will be able to wrangle the ukro Nazis when he can't bribe them anymore.
>>

 No.477136

File: 1702037165460.png ( 735.01 KB , 1334x923 , ClipboardImage.png )

update
>>

 No.477150

where is the ukrop anon that hangs around here?
how are you holding up buddy?
>>

 No.477151

>>477150
not sure, but you can't blame him for no longuer banging the ukro-drum anymore.
Many US politicians have begun renouncing their support of the Ukraine proxy war, which means that shits coming to an end.
>>

 No.477186

>>477151
>you can't blame him for no longuer banging the ukro-drum anymore.
NTA, but I can. He was so certain of Ukraine's final victory and hr was so sure Russia would be pushed out of Crimea. He didn't even want to entertain the possibility that Ukraine might not achieve its goals.
>>

 No.477187

>>477186
>He was so certain of Ukraine's final victory
>He didn't even want to entertain the possibility
I know it was a travesty. But maybe he won't be fooled again. He might have learned the lesson not to trust the mainstream media ever again, especially not when they go into war-advertisement mode.

Not that long ago the ruling narrative chorus was singing the tune of impending Russian collapse, and now they are singing the tune of impending Russian conquest of Europe. They're now rotating through the propaganda narrative catalogue fast enough that the previous line hasn't been memory-holed before the next one comes and people will begin to notice.
>>

 No.477203

File: 1702375213560.png ( 12.55 KB , 781x96 , ClipboardImage.png )

what did he mean by this?
>>

 No.477210

>>477203
I miss him tbh
>>

 No.477262

So, in a recent press conference Putin once again reiterated de-Nazification as a requirement towards ending the conflict. How does he actually intend to accomplish such a feat?
>>

 No.477263

>>477203
They're getting ready to send another huge aid package. Just because Amerifats have the attention span of gnats doesn't make it a background war.
>>

 No.477264

>>477262
>How does he actually intend to accomplish such a feat?
By destroying Ukraine's armies and equipment. Ukrops can't seem to find any more people to send to the front. Ukraine's demographics are ruined, so it's unlikely they'll be able to raise an army that can threaten Russia any time soon.

>>477263
>They're getting ready to send another huge aid package.
$200 million is hardly "huge"
>>

 No.477265

>>477264
Simply destroying Ukraine's army doesn't put an end to Nazism. This meat grinder war (avoidable or not), which has seen the destruction of an entire generation of Ukrainians, has almost certainly sown the seeds for future resentment. Russia has a tall order ahead of it in quelling nationalistic nonsense and rebuilding a sense of Slavic fraternity. My guess would be that the only real hope is a comeback from an organized Ukrainian anticapitalist Left, but that's undoubtably not in the interests of modern liberal Russia.

One thing to consider is how the last three decades of Ukraine contrasts with that of Russia and Belarus. Russia and Belarus both got strong leadership who were able to restrain their post-Soviet predator capitalists to a degree and maintain or even rebuild their industrial capacity. Conversely Ukraine has been a plaything for its post-Soviet grabitizers as its industry was completely hollowed out and assets sold off. Can a strategy for de-Nazification be found in this?
>>

 No.477266

>>477265
>Simply destroying Ukraine's army doesn't put an end to Nazis
it does though, if russia destroys ukraine's army they can force through denazification policies as part of the agreement for peace
it's what they tried with minsk 1/2 through diplomacy, but now it'll happen through sheer military might and that's a lot harder to wiggle your way out of like ukraine/nato did with minsk 1/2
>>

 No.477269

>>477265
>Simply destroying Ukraine's army doesn't put an end to Nazism.
It kinda worked in WW2. After the military power of the Nazis was broken it was relatively easy to undoo their political power.

>the destruction of an entire generation of Ukrainians, has almost certainly sown the seeds for future resentment.

>Russia has a tall order ahead of it in quelling nationalistic nonsense and rebuilding a sense of Slavic fraternity.
Hard to say which way this will go. The regime in Ukraine made it self quite unpopular by conscripting so many people to fight a loosing war. Banderite politics have lead ukrainins into a crushing defeat, twice.
If the Russians can undo the political-power-networks of the current regime as well as their secret police, ukro-ethnonationalism will probably die off.

>My guess would be that the only real hope is a comeback from an organized Ukrainian anticapitalist Left, but that's undoubtably not in the interests of modern liberal Russia.

Russian economics appear to have moved to the left somewhat and have become more similar to Belarus's economic model. It would probably work well for rebuilding Ukraine as well.
>>

 No.477270

>>477265
>Simply destroying Ukraine's army doesn't put an end to Nazism.
Obviously, then Putin will go after Poland just like Hitler.
>>

 No.477271

File: 1702787911303.png ( 274.68 KB , 1564x2591 , 49106_-_SoyBooru.png )

>>477270
more like what based Stalin did in 44
>>

 No.477273

>>477270
>Putin will go after Poland
wtf ? I can see no indications that the Russians are planning an invasion of Poland.

Why do you think this ?
>>

 No.477286

I've been hearing that the US and EU are not passing budgets to keep funding the Ukraine proxy war.

Does that mean it's over ?
Are they going to negotiate for peace now ?
>>

 No.477296

>>477286
No, they're committed to fighting Russian Imperialism. You vatniks are delusional if you think the West is just going to forget about a war of aggression right in Europe's back yard.
>>

 No.477297

>>477296
counteroffensive status?
>>

 No.477298

>>477296
>No, they're committed to
<to keep the proxy war going to weaken Russia
But instigating this proxy-war hasn't worked that way, Russia is now stronger militarily and economically than before and the west is weaker on both of these metrics. While Russia got cut off from the west they improved their geo-political relations with the rest of the world.

You are delusional if you think the West is just going to
<give up on Nato expansion into Russia's backyard.
Well, the neocons do indeed appear to have little capacity to change course, no matter how hard they fail they tend to double down on failure. They lost Georgia and now their loosing Ukraine.

Every-time the neo-cons loose one of their predictably moronic crusades, shit gets worse in the west, they trample on civil liberties, the economy gets worse, public services like wellfare gets worse as well. This stupid shit has nothing but downsides.

It seems that the neocons still think like colonial era imperialists, but unlike those they don't have a massive advantage in technological sophistication and production scale anymore. The rest of the world is now industrialized too and that means the rest of the world can't be forced to comply.
>>

 No.477305

>>477298
based neocons weakening the imperial core. dey da real trots
>>

 No.477410

reporter who investigated the purchase of a luxury villa by the family of Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky, was killed in Egypt
<According to the report, Egyptian journalist Mohammed Al-Alawi was found dead near a road in Hurghada. Numerous abrasions, bruises and fractures were found on his body, and death occurred as a result of severe traumatic brain injury.
<The victim’s relatives say that after the publication of his investigation, Mohammed began to receive threats. According to them, law enforcement agencies are investigating the involvement of several Ukrainian citizens in the murder of the journalist.
https://southfront.press/journalist-who-exposed-zelenskys-luxury-villa-in-egypt-was-killed-report/

So the dictator of the Ukrainian regime had a journalist assassinated because he was embarrassed about having been shown to be a corrupt fuck, just like his predecessors ?

Bruh why does that shit keep happening ?
Does journalism need a militarized wing that can put the foot down, to prevent this nonsense ?
>>

 No.477434

is ukrop-kun still alive?
>>

 No.477435

File: 1703887105250.jpg ( 3.12 KB , 334x293 , ghost.jpg )

>>477434
>is ukrop-kun still alive?
No, he died of embarrassment, probably somewhere in Canada. His ghost now haunts the military industry company he was engaged with. From time to time it's possible to hear a faint "total zigger death" howling.
>>

 No.477439

>>477435
>nazoids azoids oids ids ids

>vatniks atniks niks iks ids


I can hear it. spooky shit.
>>

 No.477499

File: 1704502604801.png ( 1.95 MB , 2000x1270 , ClipboardImage.png )

ukrop-kun, i wrote you but you still ain't callin'
>>

 No.477520

File: 1704674012322.jpg ( 43.19 KB , 800x450 , clownfrog.jpg )

>Ukraine using artillery shells sourced from South Korea (confirmed)
>Western authorities asserting that Russia has bought missiles from North Korea (no real evidence)
So is this just poetry, or is this just American scumbags trying as usual to ensure there is never peace on the Korean peninsula?
>>

 No.477523

>>477520
It's a reasonable assumption that the mainstream media is making shit up for war propaganda. They probably aren't basing their media stories on evidence and the stories about Russia buying weapons from the DPRK are projection. However Russia has restored all official relations with the DPRK and that includes all forms of Trade. So they probably are also trading weapons. If the media made shit up, but it coincidentally turns out to be not entirely wrong. What do you call that ?

Russia has recently launched a massive quantity of rocket strikes, and people are wondering how Russia is able to produce so many rockets. I'm assuming that's what you are inquiring about. My guess would be that if North Korea has contributed to that, they probably send guest-workers to Russia to help staff the production lines. I speculate that if Russia is economically constrained, it would be by a lack of labor-power, not industrial production facilities. Russia was forced to increase domestic civilian production to compensate for the sanctions, they increased military production, and the size of the army grew by several hundred thousand people. So that's mostly a big increase in the demand for labor power.

I do not think that they are trying to manufacture consent for a new Korea-war (China + DPRK would steam-roll USA + ROK) I think it's much more likely they're embarrassed that Russia can outproduce the collective west in heavy industrial weapons.
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 No.477525

File: 1704730436827.png ( 747.22 KB , 1080x2076 , Screenshot_20240108-171124….png )

ha! PUTLER had to go begging for rockets from Kim with CAP IN HAND

Russia is finished!
>>

 No.477526

File: 1704739128356.png ( 3.89 KB , 250x250 , skeptical.png )

>>477525
>source: UK defense secretary
>>

 No.477546

bump
>>

 No.477547

The mainstream media seems to have begun spreading nonsense that Russia is preparing to invade Europe.

Is this just their funny way of admitting that the Ukraine proxy war is lost. Or do they genuinely believe that?

Is it projection, as in that's what they would do ? Or something worse like they're planning to start a hot war with Russia ?
>>

 No.477552

>>477547
That's always how it would go. The idea that war is contained and planned in these neat theaters far away is out.

Story I heard is that they roughly divide the world like in the book 1984 and plan war to get their depopulation. It's the only thing they ever believed in.
>>

 No.477555

File: 1705101780637.jpg ( 21.13 KB , 640x333 , 1984map.jpg )

>>477552
>That's always how it would go. The idea that war is contained and planned in these neat theaters far away is out.
The Russian war strategy in Ukraine was to deplete Ukraine's ability for combat, which removes Ukraine as a potential attack-dog country, that can hold NATO bases, and serve as a staging ground. The terrain the Russians took is following natural barriers that make easy defensible positions. All these actions point towards Russia erecting massive defense lines. They're not preparing to attack, their preparing for defense.

Also If Russia attempted to march into Europe their supply-lines would get stretched thin. They won't get baited into making that mistake, because they're using that trick against the west, right now. I know the neocons are expert war-provocateurs, but i doubt they can make this one happen.

>they roughly divide the world like in the book 1984

Oceania, Eurasia, Eastasia and Disputed Territories ?
Who are they ?

There is renewed geopolitical block-formation going on, but not those you mentioned. Most of South America seems to be realigning towards China for example. Russia already has realigned towards China.

>plan war to get their depopulation.

So what counters this ?
How about an ideology of militant pacifism ?
That makes everybody with insufficient enthusiasm for diplomatic conflict resolution go fight and die on death-match island.
>>

 No.477558

>>477547
It's laughable.
>Russia is out of ammo, shells and missiles
>their soldiers fight with shovels
>they have to buy shells from DPRK
>their army is made up of poorly trained conscripts with low morale
>they are incompetent and cannot beat Ukraine
<but they're totally about to invade Europe!
>>

 No.477559

>>477555
If you think South America is anything but firmly under Anglo-
American control, you do not understand America. Even "rebellious" Venezuela will play ball with the Yankee - Maduro would be very happy to get along with Washington and isn't much of a "socialist" when you see the life of Venezuela. China is a complete outsider in the region. They'll sell cheap shit just as they sold cheap shit to the Yankee, but they have no cultural influence and no significant political influence. This works great for the CCP, because they don't want to buy American elections. That is way too expensive and pointless. China is very much about its territorial integrity, because that was their experience of history - foreigners carving up Asia and keeping people poor and addicted to opium. They do not have any political reach outside of the region, and their political interests with neighbors are to trade and cockblock other great powers who want to buy an Asian country or two. China's idea of "Chinese influence" is to install a CCP subsidiary and no less, if you're talking about political influence.

There are no half-measures regarding this, where they can keep a marginal movement in the imagined liberal democratic open society to "exploit Western weakness". That's not how this shit actually operates, and it's a familiar Nazi fag trope. The "communists" in the West purely exist as puppets to steer marginalized groups to the slaughter, usually propped up by the liberal oligarchs and so mind-poisoned that they don't know their head from their ass. So far as China has friends in the US, they see Western "communists" with contempt, and care more about business partnerships. They'd be more likely to back pissed off landholders in the hinterland than the "communists", but their most stable alliance has been with liberal political apparatchiks. There is no "US-China war" coming, except in the minds of Nazis. For quite some time, Oceania has been at peace with Eastasia, and Oceania is at war with Eurasia.
>>

 No.477560

It's funny to me that you don't realize you're exactly the sort of person who will believe Ingsoc when the official enemy changes and history must be edited to say Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia. Obama trialed that with the "pivot to Asia" that was never going to happen, to test their malleability with such a narrative. Of course, the true reality control doesn't work like that. I suspect the three "superstates" would have no reason to declare war. Once the fiction of the US is destroyed, the energy for war will be directed entirely towards the residuum and depopulation will accelerate. I would expect a US-Europe war before anything else - honkies like killing each other for retarded shit, after all.
>>

 No.477561

A war for Nazification is what has been put in motion since the conservative takeover, and it has proceeded to Nazis marching openly. It's what Nazis do best - wage plan war against each other to get poor people killed. If I'm China I would laugh as honkies kill each other, and return to killing off my own excess population and rivals. The three superstates have no real reason to fight each other, and China won't have any reason to go along with the level of depopulation eugenics wants. But, honkies did it to themselves, and are the only ones insane enough to believe eugenics should be promoted. There is no "off switch" for eugenics. The poison has been spread for decades, and they already released the toxic shots.
>>

 No.477562

It should be clear that this plan war is not an accident, and anyone continuing that narrative is a fucking Satanic retard and ought to be silenced. This is a war for eugenics alone, and it has always been a choice of the eugenists. They are the only people who benefit from any of the world wars, and had every reason to instigate them across borders. If not for deliberate choice, there would be no purpose for the war and depopulation, and the leaders of the world would look at each other, see their respective societies, and draw down the size of their armies. The limiting factor to this is that, after all of the lies, the broad masses will never accept what their leaders did to them, and there is no reconciliation. It is not a matter of property or some magic word that will allow unity of the rulers and the ruled. The people who were cast out will never forget what was done entirely to make sure they would never have anything ever again, and know what would be necessary if there is any purpose left for them. The options are to liquidate the eugenists and ruling interest in total, or to abandon this world and join a death cult. There are no other options, and there is no reconciliation. Ever. That's done.
>>

 No.477563

>>

 No.477565

*steps close to the microphone*
*clears throat*
ahem, sirs, i have an announcement

TOTAL
HOHOL
DEATH
>>

 No.477566

>>477565
t. average NATO war minister
>>

 No.477567

File: 1705160335744.jpg ( 4.91 KB , 124x165 , 1705160328944.jpg )

>>477566
forgot pic
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 No.477585

File: 1705322887110.jpg ( 78.34 KB , 959x540 , 282791152_2803558943284525….jpg )

It makes much more sense for far right to support a fascist state like russian federation. It just weird that some leftist to cheer their new war of imperialist conquest.

russian federation is basically just a colonial state where russians have subjugated all other ethnicities around them to extract resources from their lands.
>>

 No.477587

>>477585
This post radiates a green and eerie glow.

>support a fascist state like russian federation


Capitalist yes, fascist? Well not compared to Ukraine, which you don't even mention in your post. Weird.

Also you're projecting your western views onto the rest of the world, next you're going to be shouting "free tibet" or some other shit.
>>

 No.477588

>>477585
Strange how we don't hear anything about autonomous or independence movements in those various areas of Siberia. You'd think if they actually existed we would never hear the end of them from spook outlets.
>>

 No.477589

>>477588
That's a fair point. If there was any kind of organic independence movements then the CIA would be milking them for all they were worth. The lack thereof suggests these people are explicitly better off as part of the russian federation or at the very least don't give a shit.

>>477585
>It just weird that some leftist to cheer their new war of imperialist conquest.
I expect they are tankies romanticizing an alternative reality. Or they are simply anti-establishment and instinctively recoil from whatever $current_thing the corporate media is selling (and you've been programmed to think that anyone who is not pro-ukraine must be pro-russia because there is no 3rd option in NPC world).
>>

 No.477590

>>477585
This is a trick, You aren't talking about Russia.
You are trying to fool people into supporting the war campaign in the Ukraine proxy war.

This dumb war campaign has brought us:
steeply rising cost of living
severe attacks on civil liberties and democratic rights
an economic depression
unhinged politics, that made the liberals really racist

We'd be much better off funding:
the expansion of industry
the widening and deepening of social security services
the repair and expansion of infrastructure
the advancement of science and technology
nuclear energy and space exploration

the neoliberal fever dream of balkanizing Russia
This is impossible now, Russia hasn't been this strong and united since before the Soviet dissolution, but even if that wasn't so, why would leftist support this ? It would be the repeat of the 90s. Wallstreet would get to plunder Russia. The Russian workers starve to death in the millions and the western workers get austerity and other such Neo-liberal rot.

Don't bother telling me that Putin made the west do all those retarded things. Moscow might be powerful but it's clearly not setting the policy objectives of the US and EU.
>>

 No.477598

>>477589
>I expect they are tankies
That's such a meaningless word, if the people you are trying to smear aren't even operating tanks.

>instinctively recoil from whatever the corporate media is selling

It's not based on instinct, it's logic.
<If surplus is to be spend on making society better
<then approve
<else recoil in horror.
>>

 No.477600

>>477590
Ironic how you blame everyone else except russia about this war.
>>

 No.477607

>>477590
>the neoliberal fever dream of balkanizing Russia
Settler colonialism is based when russia is doing it.
>>

 No.477608

File: 1705422964837.jpg ( 68.49 KB , 649x866 , SLAVA.jpg )

>>477607
>heh Russia is doing a hecking colonialism
<OMG here come the based and redpilled woke Azov battalion! They're about to show Russia a thing or two about what black and brown bodies are capable of!
>>

 No.477610

>>477598
>That's such a meaningless word
It's not meaningless it means a person who admires the no-nonsense assertiveness with which stalin put down the hungarian revolution and reimposed communism through force. Such people romanticize the idea that such a mindset could reboot USSR 2.0 in current year russia and btfo US/NATO imperialism. I get it, respectable upstanding marxists such as yourself are repulsed by such an idea but just because you don't like something doesn't mean you can just close your eyes and pretend it doesn't exist.
>>

 No.477621

>>477607
Dafuq are you talking about ?
Russians are native to Russia.

>>477610
>It's not meaningless it means a person who admires the no-nonsense assertiveness of Stalin
If you asked Stalin about his political leanings, he would have replied Marxist Leninist or Bolshevik. Not "Tankie".

From a language perspective tankie is to tank what booklet is to book. Summoning the imagination of a tiny cute tank, is not going to communicate any assertiveness. If you want a political label that stresses assertiveness, why don't you call it Assertive Socialism ASOC for short. Or something equally obvious and on the nose.
>>

 No.477637

>>477608
Some times I swear these are ops who do this intentionally to make the opposition look like shit
>>

 No.477638

>>477621
>From a language perspective tankie is to tank what booklet is to book. Summoning the imagination of a tiny cute tank, is not going to communicate any assertiveness. If you want a political label that stresses assertiveness, why don't you call it Assertive Socialism ASOC for short. Or something equally obvious and on the nose.
That's what they call themselves, get over it. You're not fooling anyone, picking a petty fight over etymology won't hide the fact that you were wrong and have got nothing intelligent to say.
>>

 No.477641

File: 1705532772696.png ( 13.68 KB , 400x344 , dozer.png )

>>477638
>That's what they call themselves
So what ?
>get over it.
I can't it's such an absurd name. It's what you would call a protest party with a single issue political program: Everybody gets a government issued tank. With the intent of ridiculing the ballooning war-spending. Like when people vote a donkey into office to register their grievances with the system.

How about changing it to Bulldozer communism, and tankie becomes dozer. Bulldozers also are large imposing machines with tracked locomotion. At least you can rent a Bulldozer for political organizing as a propaganda gimmick.
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 No.477642

File: 1705534847319.jpeg ( 12.7 KB , 310x227 , 5b1701d53d766.jpeg )

>>477641
>How about changing it to Bulldozer communism
Because bulldozers are a libertarian meme.
>>

 No.477646

>>477642
I remember, that's the killdozer guy. Yeah i kinda do admire that supreme stubborn persistence tho.

Are you sure you want to yield Bulldozers as a symbol to the libertarians ?
Do you have another tracked industrial vehicle in mind ?
>>

 No.477843

bump
>>

 No.477855

File: 1705962157656.jpg ( 24.62 KB , 517x400 , powaofjuche.jpg )

The propaganda narrative that seeks to advertise continuing the Ukraine proxy war is now claiming that Russia has such a plentiful supply of weapons and ammunition because the DPRK is supplying them.

That means they are saying that the combined military Industrial complexes of NATO are no match to the power of JUCHE.
>>

 No.477901

File: 1705988730048.png ( 1.28 MB , 1200x623 , zelenskyos.png )

World Famous Actor Zelensky seems to think that now is the appropriate time to start asserting that, akshually, Ukraine was supposed to be even bigger than before, but those nasty Russia took over some territory after the Soviet Union collapsed that was supposed to be Ukrainian land.

What's this all about? Is he trying to pander to general Zaluzhny's Nazi supporters after sacking him?
>>

 No.477925

>>477901
>Is he trying to pander to general Zaluzhny's Nazi supporters after sacking him?
I know Zelenskyy and Zaluzhny have been fighting in the media. But no Western news sources are reporting on it yet.
>Rumors are making the rounds in Kiev that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky will fire the head of the Ukrainian armed forces, General Valerii Zaluzhny. Zelensky and Zaluzhny have been at odds for some time. The excuse is likely to be losses in and around Avdeevka, which is a Ukrainian military stronghold, just north of Donetsk. The rumor says that Kyrylo Budanov, head of military intelligence, will replace Zaluzhny.
http://www.srilankaguardian.org/2024/01/rumours-of-ukrainian-general-zaluzhnys.html?m=1

Budanov is a propagandist, he can't possibly lead the AFU effectively.
>>

 No.477961

https://farside.link/invidious/watch?v=ATfzlkQyWG0
Yesterday Mercouris reported on Zelensky talking up plans to create a insurgency, to keep fighting the war after Ukraine has lost the war.

Mercouris already pointed out a few flaws with that strategy.
1. the Ukrainian population is tired of war and no longuer supports the war effort. Insurgencies flop without the support of the population.
2. These insurgents have basically the same ideology as the classical Nazis from ww2, and that probably will spill over into the rest of Europe as terrorism and trigger the creation of concentration camps for Ukrainians in the EU
3. The Russians might have already infiltrated those groups.

I wonder about 2 things:
1. Whether this is just rhetoric and not really intended to be put into action.
2. It has an alternative purpose unrelated to Russia, and this is just an excuse to create a informal fighting force, and it's imperial porky seeking to bypass the western military.
>>

 No.478025

File: 1706143685229.png ( 18.54 KB , 1048x345 , Patrick wants to sacrifice….png )

Patrick has warned members of the British public they may have to be called up to fight

>British citizens should be "trained and equipped" to fight in a potential war with Russia

>It comes after Defence Secretary Grant Shapps said in a speech last week that we are "moving from a post-war
to pre-war world"

Step 1 train loads of people how to fight
Step 2 try to force an extremely unpopular war/defeat on people
Step 3 wonder why the people you armed and trained overthrew your government and shot you
Step 4 Intense irony causes a quantum probability fluctuation: Lenin pops into existence and says kek

https://news.sky.com/story/british-army-chiefs-call-to-mobilise-the-nation-in-the-event-of-war-should-be-listened-to-tobias-ellwood-says-13055161
>>

 No.478338

File: 1706819623234.jpg ( 88.06 KB , 900x450 , Nuland-in-Kiev.jpg )

At long last, the kingmaker has returned to Kiev! Whom do you think will receive her home baked cookies this time?
>>

 No.478345

>>478338
Is Victoria Nuland is the evil witch Eris from Sinbad ?
You know pulling threads to cause chaos ?
https://farside.link/invidious/watch?v=maZm43Bf4GI
>>

 No.478350

>>478338
She came to tell Zelenskyy that if he gets rid of Zaluzhny there will be another euromaidan.
>>

 No.478500

In other news it seems the ICJ just refused to rule in favor of Russia's guilt in the MH-17 disaster. This one one of Bellingcat's first deceptions and the first in a series of propaganda used to generate anti-Russia sentiment.

https://consortiumnews.com/2024/02/07/robert-parry-vindicated-on-mh-17-reporting/
>>

 No.478570

>>478500
Interesting that Bellingcat couldn't penetrate those institutions. Kind off hopeful about that.
>>

 No.478609

>>477961
>I wonder about 2 things:
>1. Whether this is just rhetoric and not really intended to be put into action.
>2. It has an alternative purpose unrelated to Russia, and this is just an excuse to create a informal fighting force, and it's imperial porky seeking to bypass the western military.

Nato's greatest hope was always for the Ukraine to become "another Afghanistan" for Russia.

I think they were expecting the conflict to go an entirely different way than it has. Russia has inflicted a lot of pain, but that hasn't translated into the sort of die hard fanaticism that DC was hoping for. Everyone that was enthusiastic about fighting Russia is either already at the front or in a grave. That, and the conditions which make Afghanistan Afghanistan simply don't exist in the Ukraine.

If they're still hoping to do this insurgency strategy it's hard to see it succeeding. The most die hard insurgents would probably be the animals making up Azov, Aidar, Right Sektor, etc, which are probably in the best shape right now since Zaluzhny has held them back, but I don't know what good their nazi larping is going to do without funding from Uncle Sam, and with their faces being all over social media.

The idea of pursuing some sort of insurgency doesn't really bode well for the possible existence of an independent Ukraine either. If Russia is looking at the prospect of an extended decades long insurgency with a sovereign safe haven for them to scurry back to, why not just be shot of it and take the whole rotten state? It's less trouble in the long run.
>>

 No.478617

>>478609
>I think they were expecting the conflict to go an entirely different way than it has.
Yeah the neocon plan went almost entirely sideways, Russia came out on top. But they achieved some of their objectives: They wanted to separate German industrial know-how from Russian energy, and that worked. They also wanted to increase profits for their arms-industry pals, and that worked out too.

>If they're still hoping to do this insurgency strategy it's hard to see it succeeding.

They must know that an insurgency won't work, Russia very quickly decimated Isis/l in Syria a few years ago.
Maybe they intent to use Ukraine as test-bed for a full-on corporate state, and the "insurgency" is going to become the new corporate police or something.

>If Russia is looking at the prospect of an extended decades long insurgency with a sovereign safe haven for them to scurry back to, why not just be shot of it and take the whole rotten state? It's less trouble in the long run.

It was easy for Russia to swallow up the eastern parts of post-soviet Ukraine, because most of the people living there, either like Russia or feel neutral about it. The western parts of Ukraine don't feel that way. Russia would have more difficulties in those regions. I doubt they'll go for an occupation.
>>

 No.478635

>>

 No.478645

>>478617
>Yeah the neocon plan went almost entirely sideways, Russia came out on top.
The plan was never the beat russia the plan was for the military industrial complex to offload aging equipment stockpiles which couldn't be deployed in the middle east and then replace it with shiny new equipment. All at the tax payer's expense.

The next step will be to end the war and move the construction companies in to rebuild the broken cities, again at western tax payer's expense. It's all just a scam to pump money from the working class to the billionaire class but you say the magic word "taxes" and leftists are ok with it because taxes are a good thing taxes fund roads and the NHS what are you some kind of libertarian? Tut tut.

>Russia very quickly decimated Isis/l in Syria a few years ago.

That's because somebody from the CIA had to explain to president Trump that Obama had been giving guns and pickup trucks to Al Qaeda fighters and sending them into Syria to overthrow Assad and disrupt the land bridge from Iran -> Iraq -> Syria -> Lebanon -> Hezbollah in order to protect Israel and Trump said lol no stop that plz. When the US funding stopped the "insurgency" stopped too.

>I doubt they'll go for an occupation.

I agree, when the war ends and the country gets partitioned up as long as all the fuck-NATO people end up on the russian side and all the fuck-russia people end up on the NATO side then there will be no organic insurgency movement in ukraine.
>>

 No.478646

>>478645
>The plan was never the beat russia the plan was for the military industrial complex to offload aging equipment stockpiles which couldn't be deployed in the middle east and then replace it with shiny new equipment. All at the tax payer's expense.
They wanted both. Profits for the Military industrial complex and beating Russia. They got the former but not the latter.

>The next step will be to end the war and move the construction companies in to rebuild the broken cities

You think Ukraine will get rebuild ? It's rather optimistic to think that funding would be diverted from weapons to construction.

>When the US funding stopped the "insurgency" stopped too.

The US stopped funding the rebel/terrorists in Syria ?

>When the war ends and the country gets partitioned up as long as all the fuck-NATO people end up on the russian side and all the fuck-russia people end up on the NATO side then there will be no organic insurgency movement in ukraine.

The partitioned Ukraine prediction is likely correct. I don't know about the rest. Do you really believe the Russians would accept a NATO-Ukraine rump-state ?
>>

 No.478647

File: 1707841855703.jpg ( 126 KB , 561x370 , The More You Know.jpg )

>>478645
Taxes do not fund federal spending (especially in a global superpower), this is a common misconception. Taxation is rather a means of currency control.

The mythical analogy between a state with the power to issue currency and a family budget is used to trick people into thinking that funding for one racket comes at the expense of another socially beneficial service. Don't fall into the trap.
>>

 No.478649

>>478646
>You think Ukraine will get rebuild ? It's rather optimistic to think that funding would be diverted from weapons to construction.
That's how it works. After the bombs comes to cranes. There's a documentary about it call Myths for Profit.

>The US stopped funding the rebel/terrorists in Syria ?

That's why ISIS disappeared, they stopped getting paid.

> Do you really believe the Russians would accept a NATO-Ukraine rump-state ?

You said yourself russia can't realistically hold on to a hostile territory in the west. And kiev has run out of fighting age men to ever hope of taking back the east. So what else are they going to do except draw a DMZ through the middle of the country. The reason russia couldn't do that before is because drawing a DMZ at the russian border would leave crimea and donbas on the wrong side of it. The only problem is zelensky, western media has turned him into a churchill-esq never-surrender icon so I expect he will get gadafi'ed at some point.

>>478647
>MMTer has entered the chat
Fine taxes don't pay for anything. The government prints new money out of thin air and gives it to the defense companies. The CEOs use the new money to "invest" in wallstreet and real estate. With more money slushing around the economy the price of everything goes up. And with all the investments into real estate the price of houses go way up. The state media gaslights you about "corporate greed" and "record profits" even though more profits doesn't mean more wealth when the value of money itself has gone down. And that's the real reason you will never own a house.
>>

 No.478662

>>478646
>You think Ukraine will get rebuild ?

Who besides Russia has the facilities and know how to rebuild the Soviet-era infrastructure? Unless they're planning on ripping out the entire electrical grid all the damage done is gonna need to be repaired.
>>

 No.478664

>>478647
Taxation isn't done for abstract purposes. The claims of any state don't really regard money in the way the inferiors do. The state holds the bank - it can, if it so decrees, create "free money" and assign who wins and who loses. This is not done without consequences, but it has always been the goal of states regarding their currency.

Ultimately the state requires its taxes not in money - money it issues - but in the labor and technology that tax represents. That is, states impose taxation so that they can extract useful things from the populace, in one way or another. The particular entry on a ledger is less relevant than the uses a state, or any institution, have for that abstraction. The same is true of firms in such a commanding position that they become de facto states unto themselves. The leading capitalists do not see themselves as producers, but as princes, kings, or less nobility seeking to climb the ladder. The focus on home economics is a marker of who is relegated to being a producer and who is in any position to possess political agency the state would regard. The proprietors do not pay tax in the sense that a home owning producer, a "fallow" citizen, pays taxes. For the proprietor, they are always seeking to win the game of capitalism and see the threat to their existence not in abstract money, but in particular claims to solid wealth - that is, proprietors see their interest in their property, rather than the money that the property ostensibly represents. The proprietors have long considered money as a conspiracy against them, and they are entirely correct in that the merchants and financiers typically work against the lesser proprietors. The aims of the producers - here the merchants and financiers who represent productive capital - are not so much to become proprietors much like the nobility, but to circumvent the system entirely and rule through the monarchy as courtiers, experts, and so on who are indispensible. This is how the commoners were able to accrue a majority share of the wealth and begin the long process of dispossessing the proprietors, and it has been the aim of the proprietors in this alliance to turn the producers - now the technocrats in our time - against labor and the lowest class excessively. Since this suits the producers who despise the "useless eaters" for various reasons, the alliance has remained in place. At this point, whatever is purportedly the tax in money is secondary. What is most necessary is that the ordering of society does not change, that the classes calcify into castes, and the castes with a stake in the aristocratic regime continuously seek to rise within a rigged game. All of the incentives of the producers and proprietors are set up to ensure they will never deviate from this, because doing that would question the basis for their caste's position in society, and without that, their fate is tied to the losers - the majority of humanity.

For the lower castes - the workers and the lowest classes - the idea that taxes are ever going to do anything but keep them at the edge of poverty seems like some sort of cruel joke. Their experience is that any existence independent of the ruling institutions is constantly destroyed, as this is the stated world-historical purpose of state society. Whatever wealth they hold for themselves is constantly taken by some new scam, whether it comes from state taxation or private property. The lowest class do not even possess the worth of social proof, and are invariably attacked by all other classes unless the situation is dire. For both of these classes, taxes are little more than a reminder that they will never be free from society. The entire society is set up deliberately to make taxes and debts unpayable, because if those conditions were ever removed, then the worker would enter social status he did not "earn". The social proof, the lump of horseflesh workers are trained to kill for, is only allowed to keep them in this limited purview. They will never be capitalists/producers or proprietors, and the view of labor is much like the view of the proprietors in that they view society correctly as a menace to be avoided and their personal stake as greater than any abstraction.

The real funding stream isn't finance, but the command of human beings. This command is not just of their labor, but of the technology humans produce. It really works this way for everyone who knows what money is and what rules humanity, what the interests are. Mostly, repeated lying about the nature of money is a way for the favored interest to shout "DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE" and dare anyone to act as if they received the death threat that this entailed. Anyone who does is attacked for "lashing out", and by doing so, the siege that is the default state of the human race continues. Forever.
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 No.478665

Realistically, if you're this deep in hock to the bank, you would see yourself as a slave. That's how it was understood historically, and why there was a palpable fear about what was imposed on the world in 1913. That had been the thing anyone who wanted to be free dreaded - an oligarchic formation which could freely print money qithout consequence, and which espoused open imperial aims to sort the population from the outset. It's amazing that we act like that didn't happen and continue a farcical debate about abstractions. Historically, tax revenues of states came from tolls, tarrifs, tribute payments, things the state or crown directly owned, and the state's control of space, rather than from direct taxation of income. This naturally meant that states could not draw in revenues and relied heavily on slavery (corvee labor) to produce much at all. The aim of states is to mandate slavery in whatever form is suitable for that time and place. They don't like this idea of printing fake money for abstractions as a workaround when what they want is full slavery, without resistance. It will never produce what the ruling institutions want it to produce, but they can't stop what they've been invested in for this long, and there is no "other system". The possibility of that was destroyed early in the 19th century, to thunderous applause of the parties which had any say in the matter.
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 No.478666

Anyway, the way in which wars somehow find money, but "we can't pay for this basic thing", should tell you that the money is fake and always has been. The entire point has been to deprive people most of all of security, rather than wealth. People who are secure, even if miserable, cannot be pushed or cajoled to do things they really don't want to do. Push people to do too many foul things, and they not only refuse your orders, but wage interminable war against the society that exists for such an aim. They would not have any reason to go along with this and would escalate their war to its rational conclusion - to take out as many of the bastards as they can, if they cannot extirpate the offending group and remove the threat to them. But, if the security of people is made impossible, the state and aristocracy can charge a premium for nothing more than keeping the aristocracy's attack dogs away from them. The state, aristocracy, all of the "vaunted wisdom" of this failed race is at best a mafia racket, and that's all this filthy race will ever be. Mafias, though, have baseline levels of competence required to survive, whereas aristocracy set up the society so that they can never actually lose or be called what they are.
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 No.478668

>>478649
>That's how it works. After the bombs comes to cranes. There's a documentary about it call Myths for Profit.
OK there is some truth to this, capitalism does have the pattern of using wars for capital destruction followed by renewed capital accumulation. But there are plenty of war-torn countries that never got rebuild, and just stayed broken. People then either move to other countries or deal with it somehow.

>That's why ISIS disappeared, they stopped getting paid.

I get it, they are proxy forces that work like mercenaries.
The Russians did a 6 month -ish bombing campaign in Syria a while back, what was that about then ?

>You said yourself russia can't realistically hold on to a hostile territory in the west. And kiev has run out of fighting age men to ever hope of taking back the east. So what else are they going to do except draw a DMZ through the middle of the country.

You are right a DMZ is what this is steering towards. However when setting up a West-Ukrainian government, you still need to get the Russians onboard. The Russians want "de-nazification", meaning that the "right-sector" is kept out of the government and military. If they don't get that as concession they aren't going to agree to a peace treaty. They can keep Ukraine permanently wrecked with periodic "military technical solutions" and the expense of that will be worth it to prevent "NATOfication"

>The only problem is zelensky, western media has turned him into a churchill-esq never-surrender icon so I expect he will get gadafi'ed at some point.

Under the Zelensky government they suspended democracy and killed political prisoners like Gonzalo Lira, so who cares.
But technically Zelensky could just go into exile and be fine, the Russians think he's a puppet, they won't bother "KGBing" him.
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 No.478670

>>478662
>Who besides Russia has the facilities and know how to rebuild the Soviet-era infrastructure? Unless they're planning on ripping out the entire electrical grid all the damage done is gonna need to be repaired.
Yes only the Russians can repair the grid, but who is to say that a future turbo neo-liberal corporate state wants a grid. All the rich people will get solar panels, batteries and generators. Everybody else just doesn't have reliable electricity and has to deal with rolling black-outs where you only get a few hours of power per day.
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 No.478679

>>

 No.478690

>>478679
Fag. (Go away, Satanist.)
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 No.478695

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/sitrep-21324-avdeevka-turns-critical

>Another huge breakthrough has occurred in Avdeevka that may have put the final nail in the coffin of the bitterly disputed town. Though Avdeevka is smaller than Bakhmut, Mariupol, and many other captured towns, it actually—in some ways—represents a crowning offensive achievement of the war because it has been fought for continuously the longest, and as a consequence, was the most fortified of any town.


>I posted ‘Sitrep’ maps and updates from literally 2015 before, showing how the same exact areas like Yasinovskaya to the east of ‘Tsar’s Hunt’ was being contested with footage of battles nearly a decade ago. So for Avdeevka to fall now would be a monumental and symbolically watershed moment of this conflict.


>The latest news brings us confirmation from both sides that Russian forces have in fact broken through to the ‘Industrial Avenue’ and beyond, which has entirely severed the city into two parts, cutting the supply route:
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 No.478703

>>478695
<The mother and brother of Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Syrsky live on the outskirts of the Russian city of Vladimir. A neighbor of Vladimir and Galina Syrskikh said that they regularly call up via video link and General Syrsky himself speaks about the Ukrainians as follows: "They are cunning and sneaky. I can't stand them."

fukkin lol
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 No.478865

ukrop anon? u still here lil uygha?
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 No.478866

>>478865
Don't worry, he'll start posting again when this Ukraine funding package gets through Congress and he gets paid.
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 No.478881

Total collapse of the front. 2 weeks and russia has captured Kyiiv and Odessa.
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 No.478891

>>478881
You think it's going to be that soon ?
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 No.478898

Is this fucking confli still happening?how sad.
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 No.478903

File: 1708203180161.jpg ( 27.41 KB , 347x372 , Adam_curtis.jpg )

>>478898
The real conflict is happening not in Ukraine, but in our minds.
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 No.479020

Guys, russia invaded because they had no choice! America forced them to inv….wait…I just can’t do it any longer lol
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 No.479024

>>479020
<Guys, Russia invaded by choice!
The implication being that the US gave them the choice.
Why would you make war an option in the first place ?
Why wouldn't you make all options peaceful ?

After the cold war ended, we did a foreign policy strategy that was called "detente", it was very successful, nearly all the proxy wars went away. Why was that abandoned ?

Couldn't the industrial military complex have been converted into the space industrial complex ? There's helium3 on the moon. That's so much better than coal, oil and gas.
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 No.479035

>>479024
>b-b-but why wars need to happen?
the absolute state of modern leftoids lol

I'm sure if everyone just came together and decided not to wage war after singing kumbaya there would be no more wars. This is what materialist ANALysis looks like.
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 No.479036

>>479024
>Why would you make war an option in the first place ?
Because of inter-elite COMPETITION dumbfuck.

>Why wouldn't you make all options peaceful ?

Because sometimes there are NO peaceful option dumbfuck. The costs of a compromise are greater than the estimated costs of war.
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 No.479037

>>479035
The war in Ukraine specifically was easily preventable. The diplomatic conflict resolution was already half in the bag. Allowing it to finish, was all that was required.

To end war in a broader sense. Switching from capitalism to socialism, would help. The proles as a class have less interest in fighting, because they're the ones that bleed for war. The liberals had this callous attitude about
<"fighting the Russians to the last Ukrainian"
because it meant they could warmonger and not risk having to bleed for it. In a socialist world that social relation doesn't occur and war would probably be far less common.

Removing the economic and political incentives that make war possible in capitalism won't fix war completely. You can understand war from the view point of a physicist. War is statistically likely if it can make more entropy in the universe than peaceful activities. So the civilian economy needs to be kept at a sufficient level of entropy generation.

There appear to be people that have a incorrigible crusader mentality. I once saw a lecture from a think-tank and the speaker complained about how hard it was to instigate a war. Very shocking. You need some kind of lightning rod to safely discharge that kind of destructive energy. In science-fiction stories from the 1940s there were societies that exiled all those people to a battle-moon where they could slaughter each other to their hearts content while leaving all the sensible people living on a peaceful planet undisturbed. That might be worth a consideration.
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 No.479040

>>479036
>Because of inter-elite COMPETITION
It is a tempting conclusion.

But it invites Kautsky type analysis that goes like this:
<Inter-elite competition exists on a national level too, but the state keeps it from going violent.
<We just need a global state that keeps Inter-elite competition on a international level from going violent.
Kautsky proposed this would happen just before WW2 completely proved him wrong.
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 No.479048

>>478668
I don't think the West is going to rebuild Ukraine because I don't think Ukraine is going to be independent after all this is said and done, but if there was a rump state left over, it would behoove NATO to rebuild it if only to the extent that it would be useful in a future conflict with Russia.

There's some chatter about this possibility, particularly that the responsibility is going to be offloaded onto the EU, but I don't really see that happening either.
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 No.479055

>>479048
<behooved nato rump base
wouldn't the Russians interfere with the construction of that ?
>>

 No.479064

>>479020
ukraine lost lol seethe faggot
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 No.479138

Looks like Western thieves are paying off a bunch of lawyers to claim it's totally legal to use Russian assets to pay for Ukrainian war funds. Will they really do it? Will the neocons be so bold to put the final nail in the coffin of the petrodollar?
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 No.479139

>>479138
>Looks like Western thieves are paying off a bunch of lawyers to claim it's totally legal to use Russian assets
It appears that even in western ruling circles most are opposed. I think they wanted to keep the assets frozen until those can be given to a pro-western Russian political faction that stands in opposition to the current Russian government. That way it would become a tool for foreign meddling as well as legitimacy theater.

>Will they really do it?

The neocons might be risking their political viability, if they miscalculate and screw over big finance, they'd be reduced to a weapons lobby.

>Will the neocons be so bold to put the final nail in the coffin of the petrodollar?

The neocons probably have deluded them selves that they're only blowing up that one bank in Belgium which is called Euroclear or something similar. But you are right the financial blowback will likely be directed against the Dollar or more accurately the sphere of US financial influence. Finance calculates "political risk", they won't be fooled about the source of that political risk.

This will be wind in the sails of that new BRICS financial system. Considering that Russia was a early investor in that project, they might recoup their losses, which would be ironic.

I don't know what to make of all this, neocon foreign policy had the effect of significantly reducing the power of western imperial capital on the global stage. I'm puzzled about how they keep going. They propose a stupid scheme that won't work, loads of people explain why it can't work, they do it anyway, it blows up in their face. And then the hole thing repeats it self with a new scheme.
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 No.479238

>>479055
Probably. It depends on how it comes about I think.

There's been talk of Poland entering the Western Ukraine in to "enforce order" or some other euphemism. If nato enters and establishes some kind of "free Ukraine" or something, then it will be more difficult for Russia to interfere with it. If nato tries to establish it via some sort of post war treaty with Russia, then I think it will only be nominally independent.

Personally I think Russia is just going to take the whole kit and caboodle and be done with it. Any "independent" Ukraine is just going to be a vector for terrorism and crypto Nazi cultivation. If Russia takes it all, it's assuming a big problem, but I think will provide better circumstances for a possible counterinsurgency.
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 No.479312

>>479238
>Personally I think Russia is just going to take the whole kit and caboodle and be done with it.
John Mearsheimer has the best metaphor for this: it would be like swallowing a porcupine. Ukraine has lost an entire generation of men by in a meat grinder. The kind of extreme resentment that will brew in western Ukraine would be extremely difficult for Russia to ameliorate and I don't think a sense of Slavic fraternity is going to be returning to that region any time soon. Far better to ensure that what's left of the western area is a dysfunctional rump state rather than manage it directly.
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 No.479315

>>479238
>If nato enters and establishes some kind of "free Ukraine" or something, then it will be more difficult for Russia to interfere with it.
If Nato mobilizes troops in Ukraine, the Russian response will be excessive force. Remember the "Reddit foreign legion" adventure warrior encampment, they wiped that out with supersonic missiles. Complete overkill just to make a point.
My guess is the Russian view point is this
<Nato troops in Ukraine = preparation for an invasion of Russia.

>Personally I think Russia is just going to take the whole kit and caboodle and be done with it.

I think they'll just take the eastern half, and turn the rest into a demilitarized zone.

>a vector for terrorism and crypto Nazi cultivation.

You mean CIA funded terrorism with Nazi characteristics?

I guess that would summon lots of fences with automatic weapons and security checkpoints to screen out arms-smuggling. You know a page taken from the old Soviet playbook, when they erected the anti-fascist bullwark. "Rump-ukraine" could end up as a sector-grid heavy police state.
do you want to be a nazi-terrorist ? well get ready to submit paperwork and stand in line , again and again and again

The neocons started all this shit, it almost feels like they wrecked the detente era peace, because they missed all that cold-war crap. Dreadful people.
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 No.479343

>>479315
>CIA funded terrorism with Nazi characteristics
By the way, turns out there were doing this the whole time in the Donbass since 2014, as that recent New York Times self-admission reveals.
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 No.479348

>>479343
>since 2014
>recent New York Times self-admission reveals.
So it took the New York times 10 years.
Does that mean there is a truth delay of about a decade ?
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 No.479351



>The pink paper is being coy about F-16s. It is not just that they would be Western-supplied. They would almost certainly have to operate from airbases outside Ukraine, since the require pristine runaways and Russia could make sure there weren’t any. Poland appears to be too far from Russia (even Crimea) for the F-16 to launch attack anywhere that might raise Russia’s hackles. But Romania might be plausible for continuing to attack the Donbass. Readers?


>Now it may be between the distance to Russia proper and the low likelihood that the F-16s would be effective even if they got that far that Russia is more worried in principle than practice. Scott Ritter has said that an F-16 would be visible to Russia upon takeoff and the odds of a pilot returning alive was 20%.


>However, many commentators have taken note of the current uncomfortable resemblance of the current conflict to the runup to World War I, including a plethora of incompetent leaders and key officials. Many contend that no one wanted a big war (which is an exaggeration; there were interests that wanted a fight) and that conflict blew big due to a series of miscommunications and misreadings, plus rigid treaty obligations.


>So Russia is no doubt mindful of the risk that the West could do something colossally stupid, as in mount a serious enough attack on Russia to protect its amour propre that Russia would be compelled to retaliate against an offending NATO member.


>This is a long-winded set-up to an amendment to the view of the earlier post, which argued that Russia had ample reasons to move slowly even when the Ukraine military started imploding: the need to do first things first (fully capture and clear all the oblasts that joined Russia), see what the progress of economic and political collapse implied for the best next steps. and the lack of a real need to move rapidly.


>We also stressed that the principle of “Do not make sudden moves around crazy people” also argued for a measured approach.


>But if the NATO powers look determined to inflict damage on Russia, even if that would be unproductive to counterproductive, that could suggest a need to move faster, not necessarily in terms of territorial acquisition (occupying terrain is costly and would add to the Collective West freakout) but the pace of destruction of the Ukraine military. Heads exploding across NATO-sphere suggests Russia might want to take maximum advantage of the soon-to-open window of Ukraine being badly undersupplied, most of all on the critical air defense front. Simplicius gives a very good description of how Russia is now punching Ukraine from multiple directions, regularly catching Western planners off guard and disproving the claim that in the brave new world of ISR, surprise is impossible.


>Simplicius and other point out that Russia has been concentrating forces, both in the Zaporzhizhia area and has been reversing the meager gains of the great Ukraine counteroffensive, and also has troops buildups not just near Kharkiv but also Sumy. The map-watchers so far think they are not big enough for a big arrow offensive.


>But it does mean Russia would not find it hard to feed a great many more men into positions opposite the already-bucking line of contact. And a decisive collapse might persuade the West it had no good countermoves save licking its wounds and trying to foment terrorism within Russia, a la the IRA in England.


>In other words, it seems possible that Russia could kick its operations into a higher gear than otherwise necessary to protect the West from itself.
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 No.479352

>>479351
Source is naked capitalism. "NATO Freakout Over Crumbling Ukraine Military: Poland Threatens US with Nuclear Development if No Aid Package." It wouldn't let me post the url.
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 No.479354

>>479312
>John Mearsheimer has the best metaphor for this: it would be like swallowing a porcupine.

I don't doubt it. I just think that the difference is between swallowing one large porcupine, or having to have porcupine for dinner every night because there is a nest outside your fence and they keep getting into your vegetable patch.

I'm just picturing Northern Ireland, Gaza, or Vietnam. If Russia is going to be dealing with an insurgency, it's only going to be prolonged if there's some safe haven territory for rebels to retreat to.

>>479315
>My guess is the Russian view point is this
<Nato troops in Ukraine = preparation for an invasion of Russia.

That seems to be the case, yeah. It seems like now the point of contention in nato is whether or not to escalate the situation, a struggle between those that know the game is over and those whose russophobia has deranged them into suggesting boots in the ground or even nuclear war.

>You mean CIA funded terrorism with Nazi characteristics?


Essentially, yeah. If the Banderites survive and control a hypothetical Western Ukraine then the CIA is definitely going to be involved and revanchists are going to start planning on taking back Eastern Ukraine in some distant future.

>The neocons started all this shit, it almost feels like they wrecked the detente era peace, because they missed all that cold-war crap. Dreadful people.


For them it never ended, and won't be over as long as Moscow is still standing.
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 No.479398

File: 1709206801366.jpg ( 159.67 KB , 1024x724 , 1709200239455206m (1).jpg )

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 No.479401

>>479398
Poland better watch tf out
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 No.479402

>>479354
>For them it never ended, and won't be over as long as Moscow is still standing.
Detente was a pretty sweet deal all things considered, and we lost that because these people couldn't let go ?

[frustration intensifies]
>>

 No.479403

>>479398
Russia's knocking Ukraine's military pieces off the board, they're not even trying to capture the board.
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 No.479405

>>479402
The make up of American political forces is complex. There were some for whom detente worked, and with the dissolution of the Soviet Union they thought their part was finished and ended up leaving politics. The ones that stayed were the ones for whom the objective wasn't living with the Russians but seeing them destroyed. They stayed on and their policy was enacted
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 No.479406

>>479405
*which during the 90s and really 00s seemed like the smart thing to do.
>>

 No.479411

https://bigserge.substack.com/p/downfall-the-conquest-of-germany

>By the time 1945 dawned on war ravaged Europe, the material state of the Wehrmacht had fallen to unthinkable lows. 1944 had seen the Germans adopt new methods to cover their soaring losses (particularly after the concurrent losses in Operation Bagration and the Falaise Pocket), with the formation of Volksgrenadier divisions. These were a new type of infantry formation designed for close-in positional defense, usually short on heavy weaponry but liberally equipped with submachine guns and man portable antitank weapons. At the time of their introduction, the Volksgrenadier divisions could be seen as a manpower economizing expedient and an ominous sign of collapsing German fighting power - but within a few short months, they would come to seem like a luxury.


>After 1944’s stopgap solution of the Volksgrenadier divisions, 1945 would be the time of the Volkssturm - the “people’s storm”. Unlike the Volksgrenadiers, who were at least regular army formations with standardized equipment, the Volkssturm units were barely trained militia units made up of old men, young boys, invalids, civil servants, and any otherwise warm bodies that the Germans could scrounge up. Utterly unsuited for any combat tasks beyond urban brawling, the militia units of 1945 represented the fraying logic of German strategic thinking. At this stage in the game, the premise of Germany’s strategy had now drifted fully into the realm of nihilistic delusion: the idea of the Volkssturm was to make the final conquest of Germany so costly (via the fanatical resistance of the entire population) that allied morale would crack - win a war by making the enemy tire of killing you.


How crazy is shit about to get in the Ukraine?
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 No.479413

>>479411
I can't seem to tell if Ukraine is using Wehrmacht tactics lately because they're desperate and that's just what you end up doing in their situation, or if they're doing it because parts of their military idolize Nazis.
>>

 No.479415

>>479405
That is a good political analysis. However detente was a good thing because it meant a peace time prosperity bonus. The drain of cold-war militarism/security-mongering was reduced.
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 No.479421

>>479411
Nazis love sending their untermensch to stand and die for faggotry. That is their god.

I'm guessing the situation ends when the situation in the US is no longer tenable. US has clearly chosen Israel Greatest and Best over Ukraine in their priorities.
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 No.479422

>>479421
You're not wrong fascism tries to sacrifice people, but "untermensch" isn't a real word, it's just a noise that fascists made while they committed unspeakable atrocities.
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 No.479425

>>479413
Nazi type Volksturm isn't a viable military tactic. Making a barely trained, badly equipped population (of mostly too young/old/sick) face an industrial military head on, as if they were regular military combat formations, that's just sending people to their deaths for no reason.

Resistance of an entire population can break the back of an occupation force over time, which makes it a political strategy. But Fascist countries usually can't inspire that kind of popular resistance, they're usually the target of popular resistance.

The similarities of late stage warfare between Ukraine and Nazi Germany, probably is just a case of shitty people thinking alike.
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 No.479461

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/bundeswehr-wiretap-bombshell-german

>A bombshell wiretap leak has set the intelligence and geopolitical world ablaze today, revealing high ranking members of the German Bundeswehr openly discussing plans to supply the Taurus missiles and help Ukraine destroy Russia’s Kerch Bridge.


>Many are understandably pinning the leak on Russia’s GRU, but it seems just as—if not more—plausible that it was leaked by German insiders themselves in order to thwart the plans of their own deepstate establishment which is clearly bent on starting WWIII.


>Before anyone questions the authenticity, let us first begin with the validation by Der Spiegel, who rules it as most likely legit:


>And here is a transcript of it provided by RT’s Margarita Simonyan, for those who prefer reading—though you’ll have to do a machine translation in your browser:


https://vk.com/@m_s_simonyan-rasshifrovka-razgovora-vysokopostavlennyh-oficerov-bundesver

>It’s clear that there is an ongoing internal revolt in Europe by the last remaining sane faction against the hardliners pushing WWIII. This is evident by the fact that this entire pressure wave of ‘leaks’ suddenly coincided together from a variety of directions, which included Scholz himself outing British involvement in the war:


>But what’s more, according to the Le Monde article above—though it’s behind a paywall—France is considering sending a contingent of special forces to Ukraine specifically to create a “strategic dilemma” for Russia:


< The French government allegedly views such a troop deployment as a way of posing a “strategic dilemma” for Moscow, the paper said, adding that it could “constrain” Russia’s targeting and strike capabilities. In particular, it may prove to be “essential” ahead of the arrival of US-made F-16 fighter jets, scheduled to take place later this year, the French daily added.


>Keep in mind, ostensibly, they’re referring to a small contingent of troops placed somewhere in the rear to ‘train’ Ukrainian soldiers. But the ‘strategic dilemma’ part is very interesting—what could they possibly mean by that?


>The article makes some interesting revelations. For instance, it seems to suggest that the timed release of all the current hints is a precisely choreographed CIA campaign meant specifically to give signals to Moscow:


<US intelligence services's controlled transparency operation – known as "campaigning" – is part of their plan to reinforce a form of strategic ambiguity that was initiated by Monday's meeting of allies in Paris, several sources close to the matter told Le Monde. Although the US was not involved in the precise wording of what Macron was going to say and may have been surprised by his remarks, the prospect of sending Western troops to Ukraine had been talked about in advance. The US had also sent a representative to Paris. The growing pressure from Moscow on Europe's eastern flank is worrying the US as much as the other participants.
>>

 No.479462

>>479461
Do you have a link to the transcript in german as well?
>>

 No.479463

https://www.indianpunchline.com/china-resumes-shuttle-diplomacy-as-ukraine-war-drums-get-louder/

>What emerges out of this cacophony is that quite possibly, the ground is being prepared for a soft landing for the idea of western military deployment in Ukraine in some form going forward. Within hours of Austin’s testimony on Thursday, Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova wrote on the Telegram channel, “Is this an overt threat to Russia or an attempt to cook up an excuse for Zelensky? Both are insane. However, everyone can see who the aggressor is — it is Washington.”


>The NATO has been steadily climbing the escalation ladder while the Russian reaction has been by and large to rev up the “meat grinder” in the war of attrition. But then, it is the Ukrainian carcass being ground and that doesn’t seem to matter to the Brits or Americans.


>There was a time when attack on Crimea was deemed to have been a “red line.” Then came the October 2022 Crimean Bridge explosion — on the day after the 70th birthday of Russian President Vladimir Putin. Well, Russia successfully repaired the bridge and reopened it to traffic. An emboldened West thereupon began a string of attacks against Russia’s Black Sea Fleet.


>Russia repeatedly alleged that the British, along with the US, acted as spotters, supplying the Kiev regime with coordinates of targets and that the attacks against the Black Sea Fleet were actually literally conducted under the direction of British special services. The Russian MFA spokesperson Maria Zakharova said yesterday, “In general, the question that should be asked is not about Britain’s involvement in separate episodes of the conflict in Ukraine, but about the unleashing and participation of London in the anti-Russian hybrid war.” Indeed, recent reports mentioned that none other than the UK’s Chief of the Defense Staff Admiral Tony Radakin played a significant role in developing Ukraine’s military strategy in the Black Sea.


>In retrospect, a NATO roadmap exists to bring the war home to Russia, the latest phase being a new air strike campaign against the Russian oil and gas industry. The escalation on such scale and sophistication is possible only with the direct or indirect participation of NATO personnel and real-time intelligence provided by the US satellites or ground stations. Equally, there is no more any taboo about what Ukraine can do with the weapons the NATO countries have provided.


>Lately, the CIA began to brazenly speak about all that, too. The New York Times featured an exclusive news article Monday that a CIA—supported network of spy bases constructed in the past eight years going back to the coup in Kiev in 2014, that includes 12 secret locations along the Russian border.


>Suffice to say, while on the diplomatic track, Russia’s repeated attempts to halt the fighting have been ignored by the West — the Istanbul negotiations in late March 2022; Putin’s proposal for a freeze on frontline movements and a ceasefire as early as autumn 2022, and then again in September 2023 — the CIA and Pentagon have been working hard to achieve victory at all costs.
>>

 No.479464

>>479462
I don't know if there is a German transcript, but apparently the audio can be found here: https://t.me/margaritasimonyan/13763
>>

 No.479508

>>479461
>A bombshell wiretap leak has set the intelligence and geopolitical world ablaze today, revealing high ranking members of the German Bundeswehr openly discussing plans to supply the Taurus missiles and help Ukraine destroy Russia’s Kerch Bridge.
>Many are understandably pinning the leak on Russia’s GRU, but it seems just as—if not more—plausible that it was leaked by German insiders themselves in order to thwart the plans of their own deepstate establishment which is clearly bent on starting WWIII.
It would be unfathomably based if there were insiders keeping basic sanity alive. And shield the world from the consequences of a Nato country directly attacking Russia. However at the moment it looks like it might have been a spy agency from Singapore, that pressed the abort-button for WW3.
>>

 No.479581

>>478338
Breaking: The Queen of Kiev has tendered her resignation from the Biden administration! Big things must be afoot for this to happen. Maybe the Biden administration has decided it's time for Ukraine to take a fall? Or Nuland herself couldn't convince her CIA puppets in Ukraine to go along with her recent diabolical plan?
>>

 No.479582

>>479581
So..
Nuland/CIA is jumping ship
Ukraine about to capitulate ?
>>

 No.479584

>>479581
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2024/03/victoria-nuland-major-force-behind-failed-project-ukraine-retires-unexpectedly.html

>It is a cause for celebration that behind-the-scenes neocon mover-and-shaker Under Secretary of State, Victoria Nuland, is retiring at the end of March. Her replacement is Dick Bass, former ambassador to Afghanistan, and like Nuland herself, also a former direct report to Dick Cheney, i.e, another dyed-in-the-wool warmonger. However, Nuland was singularly effective, as proven by her longevity and in serving both parties, with the Trump Administration her only time out of formal power since 1993, when she was chief of staff to Strobe Talbott, then Deputy Secretary of State. As most readers know, she is part of a neocon family enterprise, married to Robert Kagan and the sister in law of Kimberly Kagan, President of the Institute for the Study of War. From the Wikipedia entry on Robert Kagan:


< A co-founder of the neoconservative Project for the New American Century, he is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. Kagan has been a foreign policy adviser to U.S. Republican presidential candidates as well as Democratic administrations via the Foreign Affairs Policy Board. He writes a monthly column on world affairs for The Washington Post.


>Nuland’s star seemed to start fading almost immediately upon her promotion to the Acting Secretary of State position last summer, which she assumed temporarily through February while retaining her Under Secretary of Political Affairs role. Larry Johnson argues that Under Secretary of Political Affairs role is more powerful since the overseas bureaucracy of the State Department reports to it. And he also points out that there is no other gig for her that would be better, even if she had not put the retirement gloss on her resignation.


>Nevertheless, it was the newly-nominally-elevated Nuland that was dispatched to try to rally support from African states to oppose a military coup in Niger, which the US had treated as a linchpin for “democracy” and counter-terrorism operations in the Sahel. Her intervention was an embarrassing bust:


>>479582
That would be my guess, yeah, either that or at the very least they've recognized that there's nothing they can do to turn the tide.

Maybe ww3 is cancelled.
>>

 No.479585

>>479584
>Maybe ww3 is cancelled.
That would be nice
>>

 No.479586

>>479585
Right? I have work tomorrow.
>>

 No.479607

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2024/03/nothing-in-nulands-life-became-her-like-the-leaving-of-it.html

>John Helmer below argues that Victoria Nuland resigned from her Under Secretary of State position because she was pushed, specifically by the Pentagon. Recall she had been in the #2 slot, Acting Deputy Secretary, only through February 12, and was replaced in that role by Asia expert and China hawk Kurt Campbell.


>While that is certainly possible, and connected wags will probably start telling all (say in a New Yorker story). there are an awful lot of loose ends. The first is the fiasco of Lloyd Austin going AWOL during and in the aftermath of a cancer surgery puts the top echelon of the Department of Defense under a cloud, which is not an ideal position for waging a turf war. The press release announcing Nuland’s retirement does not at all resemble the tone of one you see when someone is pushed out. And why should she retire if she was pushed? She’s 62. Based on her own credentials, even before getting to the Kagan family pull, she could easily become head of an NGO/think tank or land a tony part-time role in academia.


>More generally, the Department of Defense has been following the directives of the President and State, which is how it should be in a nominal democracy. Even though the Biden is clearly fading cognitively, he is likely to exemplify the quip about Irish Alzheimers: the last thing they forget is the grudges. Biden hates Putin viscerally. In one of his first speeches after October 7, he talked far more about Ukraine than Israel, which raised a lot of eyebrows at the time.


>Admittedly Blinken is overwhelmed and visibly beaten down by the crisis in Gaza, so it is conceivable that he didn’t have the energy to defend Nuland against attack (from his perspective, better to keep her around to still manage that portfolio and keep her as scapegoat. The wheels will still keep falling off Project Ukraine, and someone will be responsible for actions taken going forward…who wants to be in charge of that garbage barge?). And the Administration may not feel it needs to throw officials under the bus over Ukraine. It can blame the collapse on the failure of the House to send money in time.


>As we pointed out, the most visible moves Nuland took as Acting Deputy Secretary looked to be fiascoes. One was her attempt to enlist African states to intervene to reverse the military coup inn Niger. Key figures refused to give her an audience. Her most recent was an emergency trip to Kiev, apparently to sort out General Zaluzhny refusing to comply with Zelensky’s demand that he resign. Scott Ritter pointed out that that was tantamount to a military coup, that it mean civilian leadership was no longer in charge.
>>

 No.479628

>>479607
So basically there was an internal power-struggle and they switched out the Russia-antagonizers with the China-antagonizers.
>>

 No.479630

>>479628
That seems to be the correct reading of events, but it's not for certain. If it was just a power struggle or change of ponies so to speak, it's a little strange for Nuland to just straight up retire instead of stepping down for some reason.
>>

 No.479639

>>479630
It looks like she was forced out of the "inner circle". But it could also be a "rage quit" on her part.

These people are strange creatures. For Example Macron has recently declared that he wants ritual sacrifice of Europeans because the demon they summoned with only Ukrainian blood sacrifice wasn't powerful enough. Although he used politician words to say it.
>>

 No.479646

>>479639
I can understand rage quitting. This thing with Russia has been in the works for decades, so after being told after 20+ years of work "the board has decided to go in a different direction" must be pretty infuriating.
>>

 No.479651

>>479646
>This thing with Russia has been in the works for decades, so after being told after 20+ years of work "the board has decided to go in a different direction" must be pretty infuriating.
That Ukraine scheme failed miserably tho, it's not like she got betrayed or anything.

>>479648
<Did I mention that Germany’s Pistorius is now reportedly fast-tracking the reintroduction of compulsory service, i.e. mandatory conscription, in order to speed up NATO’s looming war against Russia?
good grief, they can't be serious ?
>>

 No.479657

>>479651
>That Ukraine scheme failed miserably tho, it's not like she got betrayed or anything.

That's a rational thought, yeah, but these people are operating on an entirely different sort of value scale. There's always going to be someone that could have done more, or should have done something they hadn't, or whatever. For people like this there's any number of daggers to stab them in the back, real or imagined.
>>

 No.479669

File: 1710092446398.png ( 391.46 KB , 611x408 , 8b79d0f813c2a642.png )

>>

 No.479677

>>479669
lol, fuck I hate liberals

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/russia-burning-its-future

"Everything was going great, until Putin hit the 'Russian path' button."
>>

 No.479679

>>479669
>picture
Wait a minute, the allied forces invaded the 3rd Reich to defeat the Nazis. Wow how could anybody even come up with such a stupid definition.
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 No.479680

File: 1710110394886.jpg ( 127.88 KB , 960x1280 , 1710110390616.jpg )

>>479669
THE SOVIETS HAVE INVADED LITHUANIA!!!11!1!11
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 No.479681

File: 1710110979544.mp4 ( 1.06 MB , 854x470 , Stealth_20240310_183425.mp4 )

>>

 No.479682

>>479680
I see the CIA isn't even smart enough to translate a flyer into one's native language anymore.
>>

 No.479683

File: 1710112824677.jpg ( 107.36 KB , 1386x1084 , guy-with-complex-thoughts.jpg )

Is Macron just an unbelievable fucking idiot who stumbled his way into the French presidency, or is he trying to persuade other NATO members to initiating World War III because some weapons contractor or financier pulling his strings really, really wants it?
>>

 No.479685

>>479683
Hard to say. I would think it has to be more than just sunk cost at this point, not when the potential for ww3 is involved.

I think the EU was expecting a big windfall from this conflict, and some have staked more than others on it. How much was France relying on resources from its French colonies to prop up its industry? Maybe the prospect of getting cut off from Africa as well as Russian gas is too much to bear.
>>

 No.479686

>>479679
You're not supposed to think about it, just like and share on your social media of choice.

It does kind of piss me off though. In discussing this whole thing with others, I get hit with
>Russia is just as nazi/fascist as Ukraine
or
>um this is all Russia's/Putins fault for invading
and it's driving me fucking crazy.

In other definitely not nazi news,

https://swentr.site/russia/593989-latvia-eu-expulsion-language/

>Latvia has officially begun expulsions of Russians. Citizens of the neighboring state who either failed to apply for a new residence permit in the EU country or to pass a state language exam are liable for enforced ejection, the head of Latvia's Office of Citizenship and Migration Affairs (PMLP), Maira Roze, has announced.
>>

 No.479687

>>479677
>>479679
>>479680
>We had to kidnap and kill all those children because of one company of Nazis.
LMAO, you vatniks will hang.
>>

 No.479688

>>479687
Unlikely, since they're winning. Zelensky hanging from a lamppost though? Quite possible.
>>

 No.479689

>>479687
You have brain damage
>>

 No.479690

>>479683
>Is Macron just an unbelievable fucking idiot who stumbled his way into the French presidency, or is he trying to persuade other NATO members to initiating World War III because some weapons contractor or financier pulling his strings really, really wants it?
It could be both, it's possible to be an idiot and a shill at the same time. If he tries to conscript kidnap French citizens to send them to their deaths in Ukraine. They might give him the same haircut they gave Louis.

>>479685
>How much was France relying on resources from its French colonies to prop up its industry?
France kept their regions of post-colonial influence, under-developed. It was very profitable for middlemen to operate mines with badly payed manual labor using obsolete extraction methods. But for industry it would have been better to develop those regions so they could support modern technology extraction methods. Workers have to be payed and treated better to use those tools, but production gets orders of magnitudes more efficient. Efficiency hurts middlemen but it benefits the industrial production side. Upping efficiency tends to decrease the profit margins, but it more than makes up for that in increased scale.
>>

 No.479691

>>479686
>You're not supposed to think about it
Right, but when the memes are insultingly stupid it's hard not to.

>and it's driving me fucking crazy.

Maybe that's the point, to get under your skin.

If you want to annoy them back, you can describe what their are doing.
<Russia is just as nazi/fascist as Ukraine
this view is based on an equivocation fallacy
Point out the irony of Ukraine paramilitary groups with the Nazi symboles
<um this is all Russia's/Putins fault for invading
this view is based on ignoring historic context and a strange fixation with personalities.

Keep in mind that you can also point out what the interests of various people are. It's in the interests of the western proles to keep peaceful relations with Russia and trade with them. For that to happen, Russians have to be seen as human beings that can be negotiated with. While it is in the interests of weapons companies and gas companies to make Russia an enemy, and demonize Russians.
You can point out that their rhetoric harms the interests of the western proles.

Keep in mind that a significant portion of the ruling ideology propaganda content is bots, so your opinion may already be the majority opinion.
>>

 No.479692

>>479689
>vatniks
At some point you have to explain who that is, and what it is that they are hanging ? It's probably festoons ? right ?
>>479689
the brain damage has him
>>

 No.479751

>>479687
>one company of nazis
there are NO NAZIS in ukraine, not even a single one
get it right you crypto vatnik chud
>>

 No.479752

>>479751
<don't call them Nazis
<Call them "right sector"
I suppose the race-war rhetoric, the publicly stated plans for ethnically cleansing Donbass, the Hitler tattoos and the Swastica flags, that was all just coincidence. No Nazis here, move along.
>>

 No.479760

File: 1710359120858.mp4 ( 6.33 MB , 720x1280 , 1710359115303.MP4 )

>>479751
He's right, soon there will be none left
>>

 No.479763

>>479760
Yeah that's an understandable sentiment, however the Soviets most likely denazified Ukraine after WW2, and that didn't take.

The Ukranian population was subjected to brutal repression and the current regime goons probably are going to get comeuppance for that. But you can't root it out this way, fascism grows back as long as the conditions for it get recreated.
>>

 No.479866

Jeffrey Sachs gave an interview about Ukraine. The interviewer kept demanding he say something negative about the president of the Russian federation. Almost like it was some kind of a litmus test.

I have seen this many times before. What's the meaning of this, why is this so important to them. Is this some kind of propaganda technique ?

https://farside.link/invidious/watch?v=c586OPde_NA
>>

 No.479867

>>479866
Even better question: why does anyone care what Jeffrey Sachs thinks about anything? He's held no public position of particular note, he's not an expert on geopolitics, and he's certainly not a biologist. Yet he keeps being asked for his opinion on everything as if he's some kind of hypergenius polymath. His actual academic credentials are in being another bog standard liberal economist (you might even say neoliberal considering his pushing of "microcredit" scams). Why is this guy suddenly being pushed in media circles over the past two years? I'd never even heard of him until then.
>>

 No.479868

>>

 No.479869

>>

 No.479870

>>479869
I'm convinced the only reason anyone gives a shit about his opinion is that he's a tighty whitey who constantly wears a tie and carries himself with a stereotypical Ivy League haircut. He's supposed to represent some kind of dissenting voice among the halls of power, but that perception doesn't come from his actual credentials, it's all aesthetics.
>>

 No.479872

>>479867
>why does anyone care what Jeffrey Sachs thinks
He's the pro diplomacy voice, people like diplomacy, it's usually cheaper, and fewer dead people.

>he's not an expert on geopolitics,

He's been right about what the best course of action would have been for most of the recent geo-political crisis.

>and he's certainly not a biologist

How would being a biology help with matter of geo-politics ?
>>

 No.479873

>>479872
>he's been right
Yes, and so have many others, including my next-door neighbor. The question is why does this guy in particular keep getting invited to give his opinions. He always seems to make the vague allusions to having friends in high places, as if the reason we should listen to him is that maybe by giving him a public microphone said friends in high places will finally be pressured to start listening to him and change course. But quite clearly these supposed friends haven't done it all the time he's known them and they're not about to start now.

The biology question is about why he keeps getting asked for his opinion on the origin of the rona.
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 No.479888

>>479763
>that didn't take.

It doesn't really help when the ones they couldn't get were harbored in the West and replanted after the ussr was destroyed.
>>

 No.479889

Is NATO really amassing troops at the Ukraine border? When Russia did that I refused to believe they would really go in, I thought it was all western fearmongering and yet here we are. Is NATO about to go full force into World War 3? Damn I thought I would get a chance to see people seize the means of production before the nukes dropped. Now we've ran out of time.
>>

 No.479897

>>479873
<Jeffrey Sachs
>The question is why does this guy in particular keep getting invited to give his opinions.
People tune in to watch him have his say.

Anyway do you have an explanation for the litmus test, why do they always insist on "say something negative about the designated enemy"
If you want to seek out diplomatic ways out of conflicts that is counterproductive.
>>

 No.479898

>>479888
>It doesn't really help when the ones they couldn't get were harbored in the West and replanted after the ussr was destroyed.
I guess that's a fair point.
>>

 No.479899

>>479889
>Is NATO really amassing troops at the Ukraine border?
Not that i know off, but there were some rumors about 2000 French troops potentially getting sacrificed in the meat-grinder.
>Is NATO about to go full force into World War 3?
The Russians think that if Nato can establish a base of operation in Ukraine, that'll lead to the dissolution of the Russian federation. Which is a reasonable projection of hypothetical future events. So they are maximally motivated to fight.

For the West the Ukraine op is an imperial gambit. Loosing it means embarrassment and a loss of prestige, and all the neocon buddies who were looking to loot Russia 1990 shock-doctrine style are denied super-profits. So i doubt they are motivated to fight ww3 over this. Also there is zero chance the western population will accept it.

I think what might happen is that they try to bluff Russia. If they send troops into Ukraine the Russians will most likely come down on those like a bag of hammers. The political fallout from sending troops to pointless death will be ten times as bad as burning weapons and money.
>>

 No.479916

>>479899
There are already nato troops in Ukraine and Russia has pasted them before. Expecting their mere presence to deter Russia seems like a fantasy at this point. It's hard to imagine what good more nato troops will do when they can't even supply the Ukraine properly and no one seems ready or able to shift into war mode like Russia has.
>>

 No.479922

>>479916
true since weapons to Ukraine has been mostly US economic stimulus it seems at least on the small arms. A company in my state was contracted but they literally just make shitty proprietary Ar15s with the only difference being piston driven instead of direct impingement. They also have crap nitride barrels that likely can't withstand full auto. The US is just commissioning companies to supply their weird boutique guns. This isn't war production.
>>

 No.479932

>>479922
And the big stuff they can't really make any more either. They had to bring engineers out of retirement to start putting stinger and javelin missiles together again and their inventory of other big wunderwaffen shit is also vanishingly small.
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 No.479933

File: 1711245140546.jpg ( 154.81 KB , 1200x1920 , neoliberal interest theory….jpg )

>>479932
maybe they can use financial think tanks to manifest weapons
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 No.479937

>>479932
>They had to bring engineers out of retirement to start putting stinger and javelin missiles together again and their inventory of other big wunderwaffen shit is also vanishingly small.
The neolibs privatized weapons production. Then it got reconfigured to build weapons for sale. They fulfilled their mission to make profits for arms porkies. Optimizing for cost efficient combat effective weapons is not possible in that system.

>>479933
lol
>>

 No.480027

File: 1711554730951.jpg ( 83.46 KB , 746x442 , 17c5bcb218248e5b8e7402fe8f….jpg )

>>

 No.480028

File: 1711555555945.jpg ( 226.88 KB , 720x1248 , Ukrop cum jar.jpg )

>>480027
in what universe Ukrocel?
>>

 No.480029

File: 1711555956464.jpg ( 91.67 KB , 606x683 , nato lover bestiality feti….jpg )

>>

 No.480030

>>480029
Dogpill
>>

 No.480032

>>480030
Actually, there's a woman making a video exposing another woman for having sex with dogs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aab0DQJW-x0
<This Woman Was Arrested for Posting Terrifying Dog Videos
Not only that, but the comment section also has a bunch of women talking about having sex with dogs as if it's a BAD thing…

It's over for bestiality fetishists…
>>

 No.480034

>>480032
"all women fuck dogs" is "all men are rapists" tier retardation from two sides of the same coin. porky tricks. social contagion to control reproduction rates and sell sex robots. it's disgusting
>>

 No.480037

Former CIA rat Larry Johnson on the Western response to the Crocus terror attack:
<I want to start, however, with the U.S. and Western insistence that this was an ISIS-K operation. How in the world did the U.S. determine that “fact” so quickly? Here is my suggestion (Note to Babylon Bee, feel free to steal) — the people who so quickly mustered still unseen evidence to conclude that it was not Ukraine, but a team of murdering Islamic extremists should be immediately assigned to conduct a similarly expedited analysis of who blew up NordStream. They should be able to get to the bottom of that by Monday morning. Once they’ve knocked that out then they should turn their attention to the Kennedy Assassination. It is about time we had some definitive answers on that. Their ability to ferret out the “truth” about who was responsible for the heinous attack before the attack had concluded and while suspects were still roaming the Crocus Concert facility shooting unarmed civilians suggests that they have some remote viewing capability that is world class.

https://sonar21.com/russia-goes-medieval-on-alleged-takij-terrorists-with-more-circumstantial-evidence-pointing-to-ukraine-and-western-culpability/
>>

 No.480053

>>480037
BuT tHe BoDyCaM fOoTaGe
>>

 No.480056

>>480037
kek
Larry nailed it on that one.
>>

 No.480062

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-state-tv-alaska-california-vladimir-solovyov-1884434

RUSSIAN LIBERATION OF ALASKKKA AND KKKOMMIEFAILNIA SOON COMRADES
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 No.480063

File: 1711667147289.jpg ( 88.14 KB , 300x300 , vomit blood.jpg )

>>480062
>newsweek
>>

 No.480093

File: 1711841990994.mp4 ( 1.71 MB , 576x1024 , Download(4).mp4 )

The fuck is this? Ukrainian wearing an ISIS patch? I'm confused what that even means.
>>

 No.480094

>>480093
Is this the big reveal where we learn that CIA operatives are literally commanding the Ukraine military?
>>

 No.480095

File: 1711858584300.png ( 59.43 KB , 300x300 , Leon_Sedov_Brigade_logo.png )

>>480093
he's a trot clearly. still buck broken after the makhno incident
>>

 No.480096

>>480094
>CIA operatives are literally commanding the Ukraine military?
Could be if the Ukros ran out of officers. Maybe the CIA has adventurists perhaps ?
>>

 No.480119

File: 1711968882845.png ( 375.63 KB , 1080x1080 , 1710822999955365.png )

Ignoring the facts, the Kremlin's propagandists are now telling the Russians that ultimately it was not Isis, but Ukraine, that was behind the terrorist attack. According to Putin's logic, Ukrainians are Nazis, Nazis do bad things, and since something bad happened in Moscow, Ukraine must be to blame.

The logic of Vladimir Putin and his propagandists is full of gaping holes, but from the Kremlin's point of view it doesn't matter. For Ukrainians, the fact that they are now both Islamists and Nazis in the Kremlin's rhetoric is just another detail in Russia's web of lies.

Of course, the Kremlin also characterizes Ukraine as the center of homosexual civilization, part of the Jewish international conspiracy and a satanic cult. So Ukraine is now a gay-Jewish and Nazi-Islamic satanist state.
>>

 No.480121

>>480119
I haven't heard a explanation for this that wasn't full of holes

The angle that it was ISIS makes sense in terms of it being revenge for Russia decimating ISIS in Syria. But it also doesn't make sense because if the Russians nearly wiped out ISIS for fucking with Assad, they're definitely going to completely annihilate ISIS for shooting up Moscow. If it actually was ISIS, we'll know when the Russians retaliate.

The part where western intelligence, media, governments all immediately knew for certain that was ISIS, is sus as well, how could anybody know right away ? This part hints at CIA involvement, as in they knew because they were pulling the strings. Also ISIS terror operatives tend to not let them selves be caught alive, so this wasn't hardcore jihadie willing to die.

The angle that it was a Ukrainian op makes sense in terms of it being close to the Russian election. But it also doesn't make sense because they're in a war, why would they waste operatives on murdering random people at a music concert instead of sabotaging something strategic like war-logistics.

You're not credible because you're referencing sex politics and personality politics.
>>

 No.480122

>>480121
>why would they waste operatives on murdering random people at a music concert instead of sabotaging something strategic like war-logistics
This entire war for Ukraine from the beginning has been a PR war. Ukraine's utterly corrupt government is only interested in things that will impress Western money hangers so they can continue to send them more graft.
>>

 No.480129

>>480122
>This entire war for Ukraine from the beginning has been a PR war.
hm maybe, but what's the PR value of a terror attack on a concert, it's not like they can take credit for that, as some kind of battle victory.
>>

 No.480130

>>480093
>>480119
I mean if Ukraine is wearing isis patches, is it so far fetched? They're both controlled by USA so it's a moot point.
>>

 No.480146

A silver lining about this conflict is that it has revealed the absolute misanthrophy and corruption of Kremlin's neoliberal government. Hopefully, this will lead to Russians becoming increasingly disillusioned with putin and his war.
>>

 No.480149

>>480146
What are you talking about, Putin's approval rating surged upwards to like 70+% or thereabout. The Russian economy grew despite the sanctions. Wages of Russian workers rose. The neocon war propaganda leaned heavily into racism against Russians. Which made the west look very menacing to Russians. The unceasing personal attacks against Putin in the media, in Russian minds that probably translated to "The Devil is afraid of Putin".
>>

 No.480159

>>480146
>Kremlin's neoliberal government
You seem confused anon, it's actually the neoliberal economists who are shocked and confused about how their dumbass theories couldn't predict the Russian economy's rebound from apocalyptic sanctions.
>>

 No.480160

So apparently Zelensky just lowered the conscription age from 27 to 25. Kind of expected it to be down to teenagers at this point, given all the old men in their army now.
>>

 No.480165

>>480159
>it's actually the neoliberal economists who are shocked and confused about how their dumbass theories couldn't predict the Russian economy's rebound from apocalyptic sanctions.
The sanctions might have helped Russia's economic rebound. It had the effect of protectionist policies. The sanctions made all the western exports vacate the Russian markets and that allowed the Russian economy to grow into the "sanctions vacuum".

The thing is, the neo-liberal sanctions weapon was effective, it damaged the Venezuelan and Syrian economy greatly. But now it all of a sudden is doing the exact opposite. Maybe it's spooky dialectical shit.

Right now it appears like 8 out of 10 times the opposite of what neo-liberal economics predicts, actually happens.
>>

 No.480206

File: 1712343079117.jpg ( 136.25 KB , 1068x619 , azovets.jpg )

Looks like the Azov Nazis spent $5 million on a wunderweapon prototype, and then buried it in a hole because they were embarrassed. The Russian military just unearthed it in Donbass.

https://defence-blog.com/russian-soldiers-found-unique-ukrainian-monster-tank/
>>

 No.480209

File: 1712345521321.jpg ( 82.55 KB , 800x468 , transmilitant.jpg )

>>480206
freikorps maxxing
>>

 No.480210

>>480165
The sanctions would have been more effective if the Americans hadn't blown that wad already. They were expecting an earlier confrontation after Obama couped the government and the Russians took Crimea. If Hillary would have won, that would have been her big objective. Trump winning disrupted all that and the angst surrounding that was translated into Russiagate to help keep the pokers hot until the Dems could get their guy back in the driver's seat.

But yeah, Russia had already been dealing with sanctions before invading the Ukraine, and threatened with getting kicked out of swift, so when the current round of sanctions happened it's after 8 years of preparation.
>>

 No.480216

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>>

 No.480217

>>480216
Anon, I…
>>

 No.480218

>>480210
Neither the first round of sanctions nor the second had much negative effects, i doubt combining the 2 into a single round would have made much of a difference. The 4 years of extra delay from the political change in the US, is not enough time to sanctions-proof an economy, if it was vulnerable to begin with.

Kicking Russia out off Swift, was probably a strategic blunder. Because the US got information of Russian money transactions, that information is probably a lot harder to get now. And they created a big demand for alternatives, thus help bootstrapping a competing financial transaction system.
>>

 No.480219

>>480206
They spend 5 million to getto-mod a old T64 to hold 2 medium machine guns ?
So not worth it.
>>

 No.480220

>>480206
My understanding is that the Azov Battalion funded this project themselves, rather the Ukrainian government. Which raises an interesting question: who was funding the Azov Battalion?
>>

 No.480222

File: 1712378789042.jpg ( 509.57 KB , 2048x1496 , Kolomoysky.jpg )

>>480220
Oh wow, looks like Azov's biggest initial funder was none other than Jewish billionaire Ihor Kolomoysky. The very same Kolomoysky who funded Zelensky's political career. I'm surprised leftists don't point this out more often.

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2015/06/19/jewish-billionaire-finances-ukraines-aydar-ss-nazi-troops/

The founder of Azov once said, "the historic mission of our nation in this critical moment is to lead the white races of the world in a final crusade for their survival. A crusade against the Semite-led untermenschen." This hilarious display of irony really puts the cynical class character of fascism on full display. Kolomoysky even has Israeli citizenship!
>>

 No.480223

>>480222
azov is financed by zionists to instill fear in the former soviet states and drive remnant diaspora jews back to israel. it's exactly the same project as atomwaffen from the tens. this is why atomfaggot members were trained in ukraine before it was broken up and modernized in patriot front and blood tribe. it is possibly part of a joint intelligence program of controlled nazis the only kind really between the cia and mossad.
>>

 No.480231

>>480223
>azov is financed by zionists to instill fear in the former soviet states and drive remnant diaspora jews back to israel.
This seems all too familiar. There are many Jewish orgs in the west that are warning about the Zionism-fascism axis. If memory serves, one is called "Not in my name". I have not investigated Jewish orgs in the former Soviet block states, but it has to be similar there.
>>

 No.480275

Michael Hudson, Alexander Mercouris and Glenn Diesen had an interesting talk about the economics of sanctions.

https://farside.link/invidious/watch?v=OFrxgMFbN8c
>>

 No.480300

>>479683
I still don't understand this guy's complex thoughts. It's easy to just presume he's some kind of buffoon, but obviously he's the president of a powerful country. Whom is he beholden to that he's willing to risk a nuclear war by pushing for escalation like this?
>>

 No.480303

>>479683
>>480300
>I still don't understand this guy's complex thoughts. It's easy to just presume he's some kind of buffoon
My hunch is that Macron is a bafoon that's trying to escalate the Ukraine proxy war into a big power war where the US military will get drawn in.
The US probably would not take the bait, and then Nato gets dissolved.
If the US takes the bait and moves into Ukraine, it'll likely turn into a nuclear conflict.
>>

 No.480304

>>480300
>Whom is he beholden to that he's willing to risk a nuclear war by pushing for escalation like this?
Makron was a banker before, so maybe french finance ?

To be fair what he does is very cringe, maybe this is a clever chess-move and he's cringing out on purpose to destroy the political prospects of an escalation. I realize this might be wishful thinking.
>>

 No.480403

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2024/04/russia-expects-unconditional-capitulation-of-kiev-regime.html

>During yesterday's [April 11] UN Security Council meeting Vasily Nebenzya, the Permanent Representative of Russia to the United Nations, said:


< "This is how it will go down in history - as an inhuman and hateful regime of terrorists and Nazis who betrayed the interest of their people and sacrificed it for Western money and for Zelenski and his closest circle.


< In these conditions, attempts by the head of the Kiev regime to promote his formula and convene summits in support of the Kiev regime cause only confusion.


< Very soon the only topic for any international meetings on Ukraine will be the unconditional capitulation of the Kiev regime.


< I advise you all to prepare for this in advance."
>>

 No.480404

Russia hitting Ukraine power production, Ukraine apparently out of Patriot missiles

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/sitrep-41124-zelensky-in-shock-as?

>The day starts with a massive Russian missile strike that has wiped out another chunk of the remaining Ukrainian energy capacity. It’s now confirmed that Russia is hitting precisely the turbine rooms causing long-lasting, if not permanent, damage.


< Missile attack on the territory of Ukraine on April 11: details


< 🔺Tu-95MS missile carriers and Geran-2 loitering ammunition hit many targets, including both military and infrastructure/energy facilities.


< What objects were hit?


▪️Tripolye (Kyiv region). Trypilska Thermal Power Plant.

▪️Kharkov, CHPP-3.

▪️Kharkov, plant named after. Malysheva, workshop No. 510 and building No. 400.

▪️Chuguev (Kharkov region). Central warehouse of engineering ammunition of military unit A-2467.

▪️Kharkov, Turboatom plant. Foundry shop and KEMZ building.

▪️Stry (Lviv region), gas collection point No. 2.

▪️Susk (Rivne region). 1448th Central Artillery Weapons Base.

▪️Chervonograd (Lviv region). 72nd separate mechanization battalion of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

▪️Chervonograd (Lviv region), substation “Chervonograd-2” 110/35/6 kV.

▪️Odessa, substation 330/110/10 kV “Usatovo”.

< It is noteworthy that during attacks on electricity generation facilities, eyewitnesses recorded multiple arrivals, as in the case of the recent finishing off of the Dnieper Hydroelectric Power Station. Indirectly, this indicates that the Russian Aerospace Forces have been tasked with completely destroying or critically damaging ALL large non-nuclear generation facilities on the territory of Ukraine.


< Taking into account the fact that the attacks on Ukraine’s energy system are systemic in nature (and some facilities, such as CHPP-3 and substations in Odessa, have been hit not for the first time), the cumulative effect of a sharp shortage of electricity generation may appear in the near future.
>>

 No.480455

>>480427
>In the past the US did what you suggest, fight war in the manor of launching massive offensives that quickly defeated the opposing state. The result was the US ending up in drawn out insurgency wars, that it ultimately lost.
The US is mostly naval and air power, it's not a force designed to fight a slowly grinding attrition war like what the Russians are doing in Ukraine

>>480448

>>480449
>>480450
>>480453
>>480454
Maybe the Ukraine thread is not the correct place to discuss these topics.
Looks a bit like you're sliding the thread
>>

 No.480456

https://twitter.com/distant_earth83/status/1778827508680434007

French Foreign Legion deployed to Slaviyansk

https://twitter.com/distant_earth83/status/1778733248002023639

>The first units of the French Foreign Legion have been deployed to Slavyansk.


>According to the Military Chronicles, representatives of the 3rd Infantry Regiment of the French Foreign Legion arrived at the location of the 54th Separate Mechanized Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in Slavyansk yesterday.


>Preliminary information suggests that the first group of 100 people consists of artillery reconnaissance specialists and an engineering group specializing in fortification and field fortification construction.


>Apparently, the French, who move around the city only with the accompaniment of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, will assist the Ukrainian army in defending Slavyansk when the front line shifts towards this city.
>>

 No.480457

>>480456
Isn't France in NATO? Does this mean anything?
>>

 No.480459

>>480456
>artillery reconnaissance specialists and an engineering group specializing in fortification
Pardon my ignorance but this sounds like technicians and construction workers. Whatever these do, it probably isn't combat.
>>480457
>Does this mean anything?
if I'm right and these are non-combatants it probably means nothing.
>>

 No.480462

File: 1713045306423.png ( 86.7 KB , 255x245 , keek.png )

>>480459
>artillery reconnaissance and military engineering aren't part of combat
dumbfuck as always I see

the cope never stops
>>

 No.480463

>>480462
Hiding behind snide remarks, you don't know what these titles mean either.
>>

 No.480468

>>480463
it means they are military personnel

Foreign Legion is integrated into frog military command, which is integrated into NATO command
>>

 No.480478

>>480457
>>480459
>>480468
NATO article 5 doesn't include aggression and adventurism. Any NATO personnel who go to an active warzone do that at their own risk.

That is precisely why the French foreign legion was sent there. If they get killed, Macron doesn't get the blowback from the deaths of native Frogs. The french foreign legion has historically been used for exercising colonial power in places and conflicts that aren't popular at home. They're mercenaries, much like Wagner, but they aren't going to get the negative press because they're Western mercenaries.

100 is nothing and they aren't going to make a difference. Macron is doing this to save face after he backed down after his threat to send 20.000 French soldiers to Ukraine.

"100 foreign legion cannon fodder and the pictures of me punching the bag should be enough" is what Macron and his PR team are thinking right now.
>>

 No.480480

>>480478
You are correct this is not about Nato Article 5. I think one question is whether the Russians will make it a point to specifically target these French foreign legions.

>Macron is doing this to save face after he backed down after his threat to send 20.000 French soldiers to Ukraine.

Yes that is the most likely explanation. However there still is a nagging worry that he may be trying to use this to get a foot in the door for incrementally increasing troops.
>>

 No.480497

>>480480
>I think one question is whether the Russians will make it a point to specifically target these French foreign legions.

That was the stated response. It sounds like the Russians intensified shelling on sectors with the FL in it.
>>

 No.480498

>>480497
I guess this is not surprising. One can only hope they're not sending any more sacrifices.
>>

 No.480521

>>

 No.480523

>>480521
It doesn't look good, but lets not prematurely pronounce him dead, he may yet turn up.
>>

 No.480524

>>480521
Hilarious that Newsweek feels the need to shove vladimir-putin even in a story that has practically nothing to do with Putin.
>>

 No.480544

>>480524
Attention economy, more people click on an article if it's got Putin in it.
>>

 No.480561

>What happens if Ukraine loses?
<Russian victory would be debilitating for the West, and especially for Europe
https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/04/11/what-happens-if-ukraine-loses
Not looking good bros…
>>

 No.480583

>>480561
>The Economist
Neocon whine rag, can safely be ignored.
>>

 No.480585

>>480583
Ukraine is winning, then?
>>

 No.480591

>>480585
>Neocon whine rag, can safely be ignored.
Agreed. The premise of this particular neocon imperial-grift was Russia being weak. (All that rhetoric about a gas station masquerading as a country). If the Russians win, the neocons won't be able to say that anymore. Getting a new grift going against a strong opponent is much harder, because in the logic of imperial expansion that's a venture with high investment cost and not enough RoI (return on investment).

>>480585
>Ukraine is winning, then?
Ukraine lost more than an entire generation, from people fleeing from the war or dying because of it. They lost a big chunk of their industrial base and infrastructure too. They already lost, regardless how this ends. A hundred years will pass before they fully recover from this.
>>

 No.480633

File: 1713551751818.png ( 722.59 KB , 975x758 , 1713551744037.png )

Film dedicated to Russell Bentley. Our Martyrs March On Forever

https://rumble.com/v4qa503-texas-donbass-legend.html
>>

 No.480635

>>480633
Last i heard he was missing. Are we not jumping the gun with the assumption that he died.
>>

 No.480638

>>480591
>Ukraine lost more than an entire generation, from people fleeing from the war or dying because of it.
pot, meet kettle

NATO is winning then?
>>

 No.480639

>>480633
good riddance, rest in piss retarded redneck faggot
>>

 No.480643

File: 1713559056305.mp4 ( 2.48 MB , 640x360 , The CIA Killed Him.mp4 )

>>480639
why do you get a hardon for the destruction of Ukraine?
>>

 No.480645

>>480643
I have a massive hardon for the destruction of the normie way of life in general

all those normoids getting blown up, running from drones, screaming, begging for their life, crawling like maggots in the dirt, freezing to death.. IT'S FUCKING GLORIOUS

The normie times are ending. It is MY time now.

If I ever get close to state power you faggots will all drown in blood.
>>

 No.480646

>>480638
>pot, meet kettle
rofl what retarded innuendo are you even trying to make here?
>>

 No.480647

>>480645
>if i ever get close to state power
can you get close to a woman without having a panic attack?
>>

 No.480648

File: 1713562584792.jpg ( 56.01 KB , 1073x592 , A Life Stolen by ꑭ.jpg )

>>480643
this guy should be married with a kid living peacefully. why do ukrops destroy themselves and their progeny? These subhuman comprador fascists will be crushed by a Russian boot
>>

 No.480670

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/sitrep-41924-a-small-gust-for-ukraines

>aid bill slowly makes its way through Congress, but is mostly full of pork and renewing dod stock with only several billion dollars of direct support for Ukraine


<Ukraine passed mobilization bill but demographic problems and attrition likely to bring in less than the desired 400k bodies


>Today Rezident UA channel reported the following:


> #Inside

> MI-6 transferred new intelligence to the Office of the President and the General Staff about the plans of the Russian army to introduce new 10 brigades to Ukraine by the end of May. For these purposes, heavy equipment is also accumulated, and assault groups with new weapons are also being prepared.

<Western anxiety about Russia taking Kharkov growing


>Russia continues to show its massive industrial output. A new T-90M echelon was sent to the front:


>And Shoigu visited Omsktransmash, where Russian T-80BVMs are being manufactured en masse. You can see the sheer scale and vast multitude of tanks being produced:


>Scoffing doubters have brought up the fact that these are not brand new T-80s, as Russia still no longer produces them. These are all old hulls being restored and upgraded to T-80BVM status. However, in the video Shoigu notes that phase 1 of the resumption of a full T-80 production line has been completed, which is that Russia is now producing the turbine engines from scratch—which you can see in the video as well. The final phase will be for Russia to start actually manufacturing the hulls themselves, which is planned.


>Another extremely significant development is that the tanks are now being rolled out with a native anti-drone EW system some are calling the ‘ZIP’:


>This is a major deal, and is a first for the tanks to be equipped at the factory level, rather than with a field upgrade/attachment later on. That means Russia now has the world’s first and only main battle tank with native EW of this kind. That’s a big milestone and a testament to Shoigu’s hard work in pushing the equally hard-working defense industry to their limits.


<CIA director burns openly stated that Ukraine will lose by end of 2024 if aid is not rendered immediately:


<And the topic of speeches by globalist cretins, here’s a remarkable soundbite from Boris Johnson who says the quiet part aloud, that the Ukraine war is actually all about preserving Western Atlanticist hegemony:


>Stoltenburg admits that Ukraine conflict has drastically cut into nato weapon stocks


<drone attacks on Russian oil production troublesome but largely inconsequential


>I'll leave you with a thought-provoking quote I came across from the German philosopher and Russophile Walter Schubart. What do you think, any truth to his generalizations?


< “Western European man views life as a slave whose neck he has stepped on… He does not look with devotion at the sky, but, full of lust for power, looks down at the earth with evil, hostile eyes. Russian people are obsessed not with the will to power, but with a feeling of reconciliation and love. He is filled not with anger and hatred, but with the deepest trust in the essence of the world. He sees in man not an enemy, but a brother.” An Englishman wants to see the world as a factory, a Frenchman as a salon, a German as a barracks, a Russian as a church. The Englishman wants loot, the Frenchman wants glory, the German wants power, the Russian wants sacrifice. The Englishman wants to profit from his neighbor, the Frenchman wants to impress his neighbor, the German wants to command his neighbor, but the Russian doesn’t want anything from him. He does not want to turn his neighbor into his means. This is the brotherhood of the Russian heart and the Russian idea. And this is the Gospel of the future. The Russian all-man is the bearer of a new solidarity. Promethean man is already doomed to death. The era of John's man is coming - a man of love and freedom. This is the future of the Russian people. The West is driven by unbelief, fear and selfishness; The Russian soul is driven by faith, peace and brotherhood. That is why the future belongs to Russia…”
>>

 No.480672

>>480635
Apparently his wife made a telegram post that he's died, allegedly at the hands of the Guards fifth tank battalion
>>

 No.480673

>>480672
>Apparently his wife made a telegram post that he's died.
Oh that sucks.

REST in POWER comrade Texas.

>allegedly at the hands of the Guards fifth tank battalion

Tank battalion ? didn't the Ukrainians ran out of tanks months ago ?
So it was friendly fire ?
>>

 No.480675

File: 1713657756015.jpg ( 60.05 KB , 600x453 , thinkingoptimal.jpg )

So there's something I've noticed recently that I wonder if anyone else has noticed. When I read a lot of English-audience-directed stuff from native Ukrainian propagandists, it always seems like the writing is on a high school level. The way ideas are expressed, the writing style, argumentation… In my experience with teaching, it's exactly like when a student writes an essay for an assignment and they haven't done enough research to support their arguments with examples and evidence, or they simply couldn't find that material but had to commit to the arguments anyway. So, the student tries to bullshit you and make it seem like there's more to their essay than there really is by alluding to arguments but not actually formulating the arguments. So they'll write something like "X is this, because Y reason." and they'll simply leave it at that without doing anything to elaborate on Y. What's interesting is not just how often you come across this writing style in English Ukrainian propaganda, but they'll even talk in a similar manner in spoken interviews.

So I've been wondering: is this a general phenomenon of Ukrainians right now, or is it just the propagandists who've risen to their positions? Could this be the product of an extremely propagandized society where since 2014 the state has taken great measures to control and suppress the media? Have Ukrainians internalized now that this low level of discourse is acceptable in professional conversations?
>>

 No.480676

>>480675
>Could this be the product of an extremely propagandized society
Could be, but there's an simpler explanation: sourcing your assertions requires effort, and it's easier to be lazy.

>but they'll even talk in a similar manner in spoken interviews.

Listening to that stuff is masochistic.
>>

 No.480677

>>480676
I guess another possible explanation is that a lot of these spook-funded propaganda outfits aren't actually targeting an English-language audience directly. The professionals employed by them aren't trying to convince laymen, they exist just to put on airs of credibility, to launder a dubious claim to a trusted media outlet. So who cares how good the writing is, the propagandist is just there to churn content. Many people won't bother putting the effort in to track a claim to its original source to read its sophomoric writing. If The Washington Post Said It, that's good enough for them. I guess the mistake is when some media outlets put these professional charlatans in front of a microphone so listeners can heard their lame arguments directly.
>>

 No.480692

The 61bn dollar "aid package" for Ukraine probably is intended as leverage in negotiations between the US and Russia over ending the proxy war in Ukraine.
The Russian foreign minister said they'd be open for negotiations, but they insist on a buffer-zone and a insurance that Ukraine may never enter nato or host nato troops.
>>

 No.480697

>>480675
There's a not insignificant cohort of Americans that are functionally illiterate so I imagine that's a factor.
>>

 No.480773

>>480675
They know they can only get the very young and impressionable who are primed to respond to this. The old are receiving the legacy programming and fearporn to convince them there is no war or it's in a galaxy far, far away. The "middle aged" know it's all a bunch of bullshit to kill poor people and make them suffer, or they're part of the group that believes cynical lying and contempt for the people is their path to power and will always push that button.

Ukrops want to recruit gullible kids who don't know anything about anything as soldiers of fortune, so they give them the infantilized version. They roped some Antifa retards to stand and die with Nazis, and the Antifa retards are still marching with it. But, it's Nazi vs. Nazi. The intended losers are the people who were put in a sacrifice zone, or made to abandon whatever they had in Ukraine.

Ask the Ukranian refugees and they will often tell you the entire situation is a travesty, and they hold Putin to be the guilty party - because Putin is the asshole setting up this experiment in stakeholder capitalism they've always wanted to do. But, they're fucked, and they're people whose only crime was being on land that Klaus Schwab and his boys wanted for their pet project, bringing Nazi economics back in.
>>

 No.480774

It's always the honest who get fucked, and the honest are vocal from the moment this starts, and the honest do not shut up. The Germanic story of history is that "war is the death of truth", because that's what their stupid and retarded ideology tells them to believe, to justify their usual faggotry. History, reality, and communication do not work that way. There were people saying from the outset that the Nazis were screaming fags who only wanted to loot the country, and this is exactly what historians who were living in Germany during the period would write - German historians, English-speaking historians living there during the period like Shirer. The Nazis were seen as disgusting cretins by the end and were always grossly unpopular, except with fags and fag enablers.
>>

 No.480807

>>480774
>"war is the death of truth"
I may heave a better quote:
<If wars are started with lies, maybe peace can be started by truth
Julian Assange
>>

 No.480825

>>480807
The truth is quite irrelevant to whether wars happen. No one is actually "deceived" into war. The public interest is vociferously against war for any purpose other than self-defense against a legitimate enemy. We all know the fable about the boy who cried wolf, and Krauts, being a retarded race, told us we have to believe them about imagined threats - threats that the Nazis themselves created, and that would have been put down by ruthlessly exterminating the Nazi fags for starting this shit yet again. The truth is that such people must be put down for peace. Letting them live is bad enough. Inviting them into government was wholly unacceptable and unnecessary, except for one thing; enough interests in Germany wanted eugenics, and the Nazis were the only party that put eugenics above everything else.
>>

 No.480826

The Nazis themselves admit that the people are against war, but that this was irrelevant. It was not them saying that they "fooled" people into anything. Once the Nazis seized the state, they can unilaterally declare war and a state of emergency, and then the people have no choice. The war would already start, and they only live here. No one put war up to a democratic vote or anything suggesting that public opinion had anything to do with the decision. Similarly, Americans would never be "fooled" to support any clear war of aggression. The war with Japan came because Japan attacked first, thinking that the US was internally divided and wouldn't hit back, and Germany followed through because they always intended to wage war against anything nominally democratic. Of course, the Germans are the shittiest allies ever, and the Americans are not internally divided where it mattered. Japan was hoping the Krauts would be worth something for once in their sorry existence, and they learned as Europeans always knew that Krauts Always Lie.

Anyway, casual racism aside, the only way to generate any public "support" for war is to convince the people they're under attack, and that the enemy is too scary to contemplate, so the men with the iron fist will make the Bad Man go away. That's always been the story to get the slaves to shut up and go back to work. For a mass army, where the citizens must be motivated to actually fight for this, the propaganda is different, but in all cases, the army needs to believe there is some stake to defend, whereas the propaganda of warrior aristocracies is always fake and gay because aristocracies are always fake and gay. But, the constant is that the only real interest the people have in war is defending their homes. Glory is all faggotry, by fags, of fags, for fags. There are fags who will join for such stories, and those are the most insufferable poison of any nation. Anyone who actually has to die for this shit will quickly see that the fags should have been ignored, but once fags get their way, they have a way of sneaking off and getting the honest to suffer for this faggotry. That's what the Nazis were, and there was certainly a lot of faggotry in their party.

The important thing here is that the decision to initiate war is made in a place far removed from public opinion, and "selling the war" was never necessary. The only thing that has to be sold is the idea that the rulers are invincible. Wars are never popular, and starting a war does not unite a country in the way aristocratic narratives believe. As soon as Germany hit an opponent who would shoot back, they were rolled up like the fags they were, and rolled up they were when the Red Army showed what an actually competent war machine does. War is almost immediately corrosive to all of these efforts to plan the war immaculately. This is what happened to Germany in 1914. When "the big plan", the thing the German general staff spent years preparing and drilling for, failed, the general in charge told the Kaiser that the war was lost then and there, because he knew how this shit really went. Rather than learn from this lesson, the Kraut ideology told them that this general wasn't warlike enough and didn't have the true warrior feel, and so more faggotry would be engineered by the same assholes who instigated the first go-around. Typical.

If you really want peace, there is an obvious but bloody solution - wholesale elimination of aristocracy and its vestiges. After this, the remaining great powers of the world get together, observe correctly that hitherto known human history has been entirely bullshit, and we can finally do something else. But, that would be too decent. That should have happened before 1914 was allowed to happen, but eugenics wanted that war, and so, we have been condemned to this ever since.
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 No.480827

The past motives for war were overwhelmingly survival, in a world where warbands could be assembled cheaply. The barbarous peoples of the steppe or barbarian tribal societies think nothing of raising fighting men to make life hell for someone who is seen as soft, because the pleasant and peaceful alternative isn't appealing to them. In their world, the strong humiliate the weak, and there are no pretenses of justice, and this is seen as a condition of survival. The civilized are towards the barbarians nothing better, and often have been worse or far more insidious. It's not that barbarians "love war" in that sense, but that they are very quick to turn to war when it suits them, or launch raids to exhaust an enemy that must defend a line. Those are low cost for them, and high cost for an empire which must defend its network of interests and police its internal affairs. If you're a smart barbarian, you can turn these raids into a protection racket - instead of sending your warriors and horse archers to fuck up an empire's shit indefinitely, the empire can deliver a lot of gold to your warriors, and you become rich for basically nothing. The business model works very well, but it faces crises of stability when one of your warriors is ready to raise his power level and form a rival empire.
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 No.480828

The idea that civilized states are moved by propaganda in any significant direction is something PR ghouls want you to believe, when the reality is, PR works to create a chilling effect against anything that would disrupt internal affairs. The armies of modern polities know the news and the shows are all bullshit, and that the politicians lie about even the simplest thing, as does the armed service they are members of.

By now, the US doesn't even pretend to gin up public support for any war. After they got Iraq 2003, they knew that the public were irrelevant, and would only need to be threatened to make them comply. That's how Nazis always roll. Obama promises the men upstairs that his war machine will be smarter and cheaper and give the real power what they want. To the public, Obama didn't give anything except a few platitudes, all of them spoken with the utmost contempt. The liberals knew what they really wanted, and they saw the rest of the world as inferior slave races - they really do, that's the liberal ideology and their love for eugenics. They brag about this and brag that they can make the world accept this and love their slavery. It's always that.
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 No.480829

Anyone who is "fooled" is not fooled at all, and won't have to fight anything. They have the smug grin whenever they say this line about how they were "fooled". The Krauts knew what they knew, and knew they were collectively guilty for letting any part of Nazism happen - woe to the conquered, however stupid and pointless the death and slaughter may be. No one believes there is a "nice" way to put down the German menace by 1945. The strategic bombing of the British-led Empire was wholly unnecessary and produced no benefit that accelerated the end of the war, and only served to embolden Nazis and revanchists in the postwar order. It was calculated to produce exactly that, which is why the Soviets did not think about any such campaign, on top of them being fucktarded and evil adventures of a Satanic country. The Soviets were thinking about how to win the war, and yet the Anglo-Americans cry crocodile tears about raped Kraut women who had it coming. Stalin's boys having a little of the old in-out is hardly an atrocity like the bombing of Dresden. As for the post-war internment of German men, that is cruel, but they all knew they lost and this is how they would be made to march under the yoke in the 20th century. I don't weep one bit, considering their stupid country should have been dismantled then and there and not allowed to exist, and the Germanic way of life and its institutions should have been dismantled in total around the world. Hopefully some day, this de-Germanization will succeed, and the failed system will truly be gone.
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 No.480830

Likewise, no American seriously believes they are innocent. The rulers want us to live in shame for decisions the rulers made, and we have been made to bear all of the costs of the rulers' freeroll. But, we let it happen, and so, "woe to the conquered" - even when the ocnqueror is our own supposed leaders. That is the prevailing mood in America, rather than any commitment to justice. Wars are as far removed from justice as is possible. It's one reason why promising you will end war is a great way for politicians to gain actual public support, if they want such a thing.
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 No.480928

So it seems a whistleblower came out detailing her work at a Ukrainian astroturf firm whose job it was to influence things on social media. Notably she says her directions to change targets from Ukrainian social media to English social media and focus on the subject of US elections probably came from the directive of CIA operatives. I can't seem to find the primary source on this, so I have to post a shitty Jimmy Dore video.

https://rumble.com/v4rybct-whistleblower-says-ukrainian-troll-farms-helped-elect-biden.html
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 No.480966

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 No.481099

Oh shit, it looks like it's escalating with NATO troops going into Ukraine!

https://asiatimes.com/2024/04/nato-starts-deploying-troops-as-russia-races-to-win/
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 No.481100

>>481099
>If the Russians are successful, a bigger war in Europe will be avoided. If not, with the introduction of US forces, Europe will be plunged into World War III.
bruh
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 No.481105

File: 1714685386112.png ( 1.85 MB , 1650x1589 , soon.png )

>>481100
>If the Germans are successful, a bigger war in Europe will be avoided.
Social fascists never learn lol.

C'MOOOOOON! GIVE ME CHAOS, GIVE ME STORM!

I'm fucking ready.
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 No.481106

>>481099
How realistic is the worry that the US would deploy troops after the election ?

The logic that such an unpopular move would be postponed until after an election is sound. But there have to be other constraints, like can the US really commit to a hot war with Russia ? That would be the first direct war between big nuclear powers. The US is also engaged in geo-political struggles in the Middle east and Asia. It seems rather unlikely that they can fully commit to any one of these 3 fronts without significantly yielding ground on the other 2.

>>481100
<If the Russians are successful, a bigger war in Europe will be avoided. If not, with the introduction of US forces, Europe will be plunged into World War III.
>bruh
The tone in that line is indeed a bit melodramatic, but there seems to be some truth to it. If the US were to send troops that would create a huge escalation. If the Russians win it kinda depends on what you expect the Russians to do after. They have build all those fortifications in East Ukraine, and it looks like that's the line they intend to entrench. So if that's correct the situation probably would settle down. Of course if you expect the Russians to advance westwards and push into Poland or something like that, that would mean a major happening. Tho you'd have to explain what they could gain, what could justify the extraordinary costs of such a move.
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 No.481110

>>481106
Aside from Turkey, the US is the only other nato member with a standing force big enough to oppose Russia. It seems really unlikely they would though because absent conscription it would mean cleaning out every other us base in the world to do it and would require months of ferrying them to Europe. The Russians also have the ability to hit any staging or massing area in the theater, meaning the Americans would be taking casualties before ever even reaching the front line. That's not even taking into account how massively Russia is currently out producing nato on weapons and ammunition. Even if Uncle Sam snapped his fingers and the entire usm appeared on Russia's doorstep, they'd be out of bullets in a matter of days.

That being said, just because it's an incredibly risky and stupid move doesn't mean it's impossible.
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 No.481125

>>481110
>Aside from Turkey, the US is the only other nato member with a standing force big enough to oppose Russia.
If you are talking European security infrastructure, you can't just draw a line on the ground an then mass forces on either side that stare at each other menacingly. Peace is created by making all factions have a vested interest in peace, and military power is just for mitigating the residual risk.

>That being said, just because it's an incredibly risky and stupid move doesn't mean it's impossible.

I guess that's true.
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 No.481136

So some fuckers in my tiny mountain town posted a cascade of flyers for "victims of the Russian invasion" at my local civic center, which also serves as a children's school. Hilariously most of the text on them isn't even in English, it's in Cyrillic. As if we're such great allies (Amerifat here) that we should all just presume to be able to decipher Cyrillic and understand a Slavic language now. I'm honestly gobsmacked to still be seeing propaganda of this level at this point, over twos after the proxy war began and when the Ukrainian regime is now facing imminent defeat. Most private citizens have given up their disgusting virtue signaling at this point, leaving only non-profits/NGOs left to peddle their propaganda. My question is this: who the hell is this still working on?
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 No.481137

>>481136
I drove by a marine base building (West European country) and there was a Ukraine flag hanging outside one window
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 No.481207

>>481198
>>481199
>>481200
>>481201
>>481204
are those thread sliding ?

>>481136
>Hilariously most of the text on them isn't even in English, it's in Cyrillic.
>we should all just presume to be able to decipher Cyrillic
>I'm honestly gobsmacked to still be seeing propaganda of this level at this point
They did this for the shill money, and don't care that it's ineffective propaganda
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 No.481477

The story that begun with the French president floating ideas of sending Nato troops to Ukraine ended with the Russian threatening strikes on Nato countries, doing nuclear drills, and the west backing off. Italy seemed to be pushing really hard against this.

Mercouris was one of the few that covered this development, his take is that it was a failed attempt to create strategic ambiguity. He is deeply pessimistic and thinks this episode isn't really over, just postponed.

I think this isn't coming back, they would have to conscript a lot of people to deploy Nato troops in Ukraine. Arming and training all those young people, who are royally pissed because of the genocide in Gaza, that's probably not very clever.
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 No.481597

File: 1715883578895.jpg ( 11.15 KB , 280x157 , robert-fico-on-stretcher.jpg )

Yesterday there was an assassination attempt on the last principled social democrat in Europe. Slovak prime minister Robert Fico is in critical condition after being shot five times. He was the only left-wing European leader, along with right-winger Victor Orban in Hungary, to stand up to NATO and its aggressive warmongering in Ukraine.

Only source I've found so far that doesn't insert a bunch of bullshit propaganda into the story:
https://www.rt.com/news/597723-assassination-attempt-fico-recap/
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 No.481598

>>481597
<assassinating politicians
what are they trying to achieve with such a stunt ? Are they trying to convince people that pacifism means ruthlessly eliminating all the war-mongerers ?

Maybe it's just panic because the Ukrainian military is crumbling much faster than they planned for. The projections have Russia scoring a decisive win. That makes the neocon NATO expansion project look like an expensive blunder.

US politics are divesting from Ukraine, because they don't want to be left holding the flaming bag of shit. And they're not gonna convince the European population to make sacrifices in quality of life to keep this shit show going. Should have listened to Barack Obama of all people, he warned them not to escalate in Ukraine.
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 No.481631

So it seems Ukrainian truckers have blocked the highway between Odessa and Kiev in protest against Zelensky's unconstitutional term extension and the new general conscription law. Are Ukrainians finally getting a sick of their military dictatorship?
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 No.481634

>>481631
Sure looks like it, but who knows. It might be intrigue.
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 No.481647

>>481631
Ukraine still has some of those fascistic armed groups that are aligned with the secret police, those might be mobilized to attack labor organizing.

If Russia is clever they will activate spies that interfere with that. If a labor movement gains political power, its much more likely to go for actual diplomacy than the Zelensky gang. The war will be over in a few months anyway, but skipping months of war is still worth it.
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 No.481669

>>481597
>Assassination Attempt on Slovak PM Highlights Dangers of Constant EU Demonization of Project Ukraine Opponents and Hypocrisy of ‘Misinformation’ Crackdown

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2024/05/wheres-the-uproar-over-corporate-medias-history-of-spreading-hate-and-misinformation-about-slovak-pm-who-just-survived-assassination-attempt.html

>It’s interesting that the EU censorship-industrial complex doesn’t appear inclined to take a deeper look at this considering it’s been hellbent on rooting out what they label misinformation in recent years. Consider that while the shooter is being described as a lone wolf, he was motivated – at least in part – by the Fico government’s opposition to Project Ukraine. Here’s CNN:


<He said that the suspect told law enforcement officers that he disagreed with Fico’s policies and that he decided to act after the recent presidential election, which saw a Fico ally – Pellegrini – emerge as the winner.


<“The reasons (the suspect gave) were the decision to abolish the special prosecutor’s office, the decision to stop supplying military assistance to Ukraine, the reform of public service broadcaster and the dismissal of the judicial council head,” Šutaj Eštok said.


>That means European officials and media who have been relentlessly hyping the Russian threat while simultaneously labeling Fico as pro-Russia, created an environment where Fico’s opposition to supplying military assistance to Ukraine is treated as some unholy act and apparent motivation for the assassination attempt. Even the other issues that allegedly the shooter gave almost certainly received outsize negative media attention largely due to Fico’s opposition to Project Ukraine.


So the Slovakian Prime Minister Robert Fico got shot because he opposed policies like sending weapons to Ukraine. The EU neocon collaborators are trying to use this incident to advertise more industrial censorship complex bullshit, that is supposed to silence their critics. When in reality the person that committed the assassination attempt was agreeing with them.

First we have to do a sanity check, the fact that some guy who happened to have pro-neocon opinions did a horrible crime, doesn't mean the neocons are responsible, and that includes their propaganda machine, you can't try to murder people because the news told you they are bad.

However what is ringing the alarm bells is that they are now trying to link this guy's crime to influence from neocon critical news.
These people have a pattern, when they do something bad, they don't just try to memory-hole it, they always try to pin it on their political opponents. If there was some spook agency operation that nudged some mentally unstable guy to go shoot the Slovakian Prime Minister, this type of hyper-hypocritical propaganda messaging would be exactly what they would do.

Maybe this was just some guy who had a screw loose, but the suspicious messaging from the neocon propaganda machine, has me spooked out, that they might have degenerated to doing hard political violence.
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 No.481708

>>481669
vaguely related
https://swentr.site/news/598129-georgia-slovakia-pm/

<Georgian Prime Minister Irakli Kobakhidze has claimed that a European commissioner told him he could end up suffering the same fate as Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico, who survived an assassination attempt last week.


<In a Facebook post on Thursday, Kobakhidze said that the unnamed commissioner warned him during a recent phone call that the West would take “a number of measures” against him if his government pressed ahead with a law requiring foreign NGOs in Georgia to disclose their funding.


<“While listing these measures, he mentioned: ‘you see what happened to Fico, and you should be very careful’,” he wrote.



This might be rumor mill or just plain bullshit to stir political drama since Georgia has lots of people protesting in the streets and stuff. He could be claiming this just to look extra courageous.

There are other possibilities, passing fake death-threats to the Georgian Prime Minister might be a psy-op to spook him into doing a massive political purge, that destabilizes his country.

What makes me think that there could be some truth to it is because a few years ago Lukashenko was threatened along similar lines. He banned all foreign NGOs from Belarus. After that he went on national television and threatened them with firing squats.
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 No.481814

is the ukrop anon from canada still alive? you there buddy?
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 No.481816

>>481814
You think the leafs shipped him to the meat-grinder ? He's probably just too embarrassed to post, with the Russians winning and all.

Although it has a surreal quality of existential horror to ponder the possibility that he might be lying dead in a artillery crater somewhere in the ukranian mud.
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 No.481928

>>481708
>Kobakhidze
pronounced kobasice
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 No.481944

So i have watched Ukraine "recruitment" efforts.

It went like this, half a dozen dudes jump out of a van, and try to nab some guy. The guy latches on to a lamp post and a protracted struggle ensues. The dudes eventually manage to peal the guy off the lamp post and drag him into the van kicking and screaming.

Here's my question, what possible use can this guy be for their war effort ? It's not like they can hand him a weapon, the first thing he'd do is shoot his kidnappers in the face and run away. If they just ditch him on the battle field, he'll just run off or surrender in case he bumps into Russian forces.
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 No.481945

>>481944
They're nothing but blood sacrifices at this point. As you know, Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe, Zelensky himself has millions in off-shore holdings, the large majority of weapons supplied to Ukraine just goes straight into the black market, etc. These people are being sacrificed to enrich Ukraine's psychopathic oligarchs, nothing more. Anything to keep the gravy train rolling and ensure continued protection by the benefactors of Ukraine's ruling class.
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 No.481977

Ukrainian government bans World Socialist Web Site

On Monday, June 3, the Ukrainian government banned the World Socialist Web Site across the country, issuing an order commanding all internet service providers to block access to the WSWS indefinitely.

The order was issued by the Ukrainian State Special Communications Service (SSSCIP), a wing of the country’s military-intelligence apparatus. It instructs “providers of electronic communication networks and/or services to implement access restriction (block access) on own recursive DNS servers to domain name (as well as its subdomains) wsws.org.”

The order has no end date and will last “until the termination or abolition of martial law in Ukraine.” The SSSCIP claims the ban is justified under President Vladimir Zelensky’s February 24, 2022 declaration of martial law, which suspended democratic rights across the country.

The order banning access to the World Socialist Web Site exposes as lies all claims that the US-led war in Ukraine is being waged in the name of “democracy.” Yesterday, US President Joe Biden spoke at a commemoration of D-Day in Normandy and presented the war as “a struggle between dictatorship and freedom.” The reality is Ukraine is a dictatorship where the government is politically dependent on fascists who idolize the Holocaust. The government brutally persecutes opponents of its war and blatantly suppresses free speech.

The decision to ban the WSWS is a response to the outpouring of support within Ukraine and internationally for Bogdan Syrotiuk, a 25-year-old socialist internationalist who was arrested by the Zelensky regime on April 25 on trumped up charges of “high treason” for writing articles for the WSWS, which SBU prosecutors (Ukraine’s domestic intelligence agency) deceitfully claim is “Russian propaganda.” Syrotiuk and the organization to which he belongs, the Young Guard of Bolshevik-Leninists (YGBL), are Trotskyists and irreconcilable opponents of the US-NATO war against Russia as well as the capitalist government of Vladimir Putin.

There is compelling evidence that the Ukrainian government’s decision to ban the WSWS was made in consultation with the Biden administration.

The Ukrainian State Special Communications Service—the institution from which the order to ban the WSWS derived—is a long-term partner of the United States government. In July 2022, the US Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA, a component of the Department of Homeland Security) signed an agreement with SSSCIP “to strengthen collaboration on shared cybersecurity priorities,” which “expands upon CISA’s existing relationship with the government of Ukraine.”

CISA Director Jen Easterly said the agreement “allowed us to really focus on how do we effectively share information, best practices, exercise together, train together, figure out how to hunt for adversary activity.”

In documents outlining the bogus charges against Syrotiuk, the Ukrainian government references an “investigation” of the WSWS conducted by the Center for Countering Disinformation (CCD), a wing of the Security and Defense Council of Ukraine. According to the prosecuting documents, the CCD conducted an “analysis of publications posted on the WSWS.org resource … according to which the essence of the damage caused by [Syrotiuk] to the information security of Ukraine was established.”

There is not a shred of evidence to support the claim that Syrotiuk or the WSWS are supporters of the Russian government. On the contrary, the prosecuting documents rely entirely on articles by Syrotiuk and the WSWS denouncing the US-NATO war, exposing the role of fascists in the Ukrainian government, warning of the danger of nuclear escalation and calling for the unity of the Russian and Ukrainian working class against both governments. Included among the “evidence” cited by the Ukrainian authorities as proof of Syrotiuk’s guilt is literature found in his apartment authored by Vladimir Lenin, Leon Trotsky and WSWS International Editorial Board Chairperson David North.

read more:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/06/07/disc-j07.html
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 No.481979

>>481977
>It instructs “providers of electronic communication networks and/or services to implement access restriction (block access) on own recursive DNS servers to domain name (as well as its subdomains) wsws.org.”
Nah this is just infrastructure terrorism.

>President Vladimir Zelensky’s February 24, 2022 declaration of martial law, which suspended democratic rights across the country.

What are they smoking, you can't suspend democratic rights, he merely suspended the legitimacy of his government.
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 No.481995

>>481477
In a rational world you'd have a point, but just because a plan is deeply stupid, ill-advised, impractical, and unworkable, that doesn't mean the bourgeoisie won't do it. Otherwise this war wouldn't have happened in the first place.
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 No.481996

>>481944
>Here's my question, what possible use can this guy be for their war effort ?

At this point nato's "plan" seems to be to just keep the war going as long as possible and hope that somewhere along the line Russia just gives up. These people are just temporarily warm bodies to give the Russians something to shoot at.

Hopefully the rumors about a new Sumy front are true and the new Leningrad army will drive straight into Kiev and soon the war will be over.
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 No.482007

>>481995
Attempting to force-conscript young westerns to fight in Ukraine:

90% chance of overwhelming political backlash
10% chance of creating an armed force that channels their pent up frustration about being powerless bystanders to a genocide by pledging loyalty to the ICJ/ICC. Rounding up Zionist war-crime facilitators, dragging them to the Hague, the very moment they get empowered with weapons.

If the latter comes to pass, we will have to update physics textbooks on fundamental forces:
Gravity
Electromagnetism
Nuclear strong force
Nuclear weak force
Irony
>>

 No.482012

>>481996
>At this point nato's "plan" seems to be to just keep the war going as long as possible
I don't see the rational for doing that, the Russians only care about frustrating NATO-expansion, they don't care about conquering shit. If they really wanted that the could have done that already, they clearly want a buffer zone. They've been digging trenches for defense through east Ukraine, they're not building logistics hubs for expansion.
It would be rational to cut the losses and sign a peace deal with the Russians. Granting the Russians concessions might feel dramatic for egomaniac neocons with a reality-distortion, however objectively it's not that big of a loss, western controle over Ukraine via hard-power was always in illusion. There's only influence via soft-power.

Politically the masses in the west don't really care about who wins or loses wars, people care about lowering their energy bill and having good social services instead of a big military budget.
>>

 No.482047

>>482012
>I don't see the rational for doing that,
Chiming in to say… Money + embarrassing Russia, reducing Russian hegemony. But money especially, yeah. It sells arms.

>the Russians only care about frustrating NATO-expansion

Ehhhhh… that's not what the only motivation Putin gives in his big essays about how Ukraine didn't used to exist when he was a kid.

Whether or not Russia could delude itself into thinking it could hold Ukraine forever were it to take the entire country (and it already has a sizable chunk, and not everybody within that portion is a Russian loyalist), their motives don't end with NATO. There were serious miscalculations made from the getgo by Russia, and now there are serious miscalculations being made by the US and Zelenskyy gov't - Russia greatly underestimated Ukrainian resistance to begin with, and now the US either overestimates it or simply doesn't care. Maybe both.
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 No.482049

>>482047
On the money note, just stumbled on this:
https://twitter.com/Megatron_ron/status/1799884272158880206
The clip is fucking insane.
>>

 No.482050

>>482049
The homosexual Lindsey is one of the most nakedly imperialistic people in the US government and that's saying a lot.
>>

 No.482051

>>482047
>Chiming in to say… Money
>It sells arms.
Only a small faction of the capitalist class made gains from the neocon's Ukraine shit-fest. Like you already eluded to: the weapons industry. But also a few others like the LNG ex/import industry. Most capitalists suffered some losses especially because of the economic sanctions war backfiring on the west. The hole saga about seizing Russian assets likely has damaged the reputation of western finance. I'm still perplexed as to why those many capitalists just rolled over and took the L.

>embarrassing Russia

sentimental nonsense, countries are abstract entities that don't feel embarrassment

>reducing Russian hegemony.

There can be only one hegemony and it's without a doubt the US. It's hegemonic reach has arguably suffered somewhat because the sanctions caused more trade to leave the Dollar dominated system.

>Ehhhhh… that's not what the only motivation Putin gives in his big essays about how Ukraine didn't used to exist when he was a kid.

What the, you think world events are about personal anecdotes ? The Ukraine war was a proxy war between Nato and Russia. Nato wanted to get a foothold in Ukraine, and the Russians blew up Ukraine to prevent that.

>Whether or not Russia could delude itself into thinking it could hold Ukraine forever were it to take the entire country (and it already has a sizable chunk, and not everybody within that portion is a Russian loyalist

They'll likely succeed at integrating the eastern part of Ukraine into Russia. I don't know what happens to the western part of Ukraine. The Russians seem to be trying to purge the neo fascistic right sector and then make a neutral rump Ukraine with pre-Euro-maidan politics.

>their motives don't end with NATO.

While that is true, the fact remains that If you subtract Nato expansion from the equation, the Ukraine war never happens.

>and now there are serious miscalculations being made by the US and Zelenskyy gov't

The US wants to keep Ukraine happening going until the election Season is over, and then that project is finished. Zelensky is no longer democratically legitimized because he didn't hold elections. When the US is done with him, that'll make it easy to get rid off him.

>Russia greatly underestimated Ukrainian resistance to begin with

Well the Russian game-plan was to roll in with the tanks and force the Ukrainians to negotiate. That almost worked the Ukrainians almost signed the Istanbul peace deal. That would have been a 2 months border skirmish, with an almost intact Ukraine and low body-count. They didn't foresee that the west could force Ukraine to sacrifice it self.

>now the US either overestimates it or simply doesn't care

The strategic error the US made was to only look at Russia's relatively small economic foot-print in financial terms. They ignored the material industrial power when gauging strength.
>>

 No.482059

>>482012
It wasn't "rational" to start this conflict to begin with, but here we are.

For some of the people driving this, it's personal. The Kagan family is deeply invested in this conflict and have been since they helped pen Project For A New American Century. Their ngo Institute for the Study of War is basically entirely devoted to managing this war with Russia. Iirc, Victoria Nuland who is married to one of the Kagan brothers, I believe she's descended from Ukrainian Nazis that fled to the West after the war, so for her in particular this anti-Russian crusade is a personal vendetta.

But aside from them, you've also got the Biden and Clinton families that also have a lot riding on this conflict and have invested significant capital in it.

More generally though, the entire "rules based order" is riding on this. This will be the first time since the fall of the Soviet Union that another country has not only told the US "no," but also acted to physically stop it, and by all apparent evidence is succeeding. For the Atlanticist bourgeoisie, losing this war is a catastrophic outcome because it means their monopoly on violence is over and now there is a real alternative to their dictatorship.

Not only is Russia fighting and winning, but it's doing so against "all of NATO." It shouldn't even be possible that this "gas station with nukes" could oppose them, not with "a gdp smaller than Italy's."

But also, part of the reason the war has to continue from Nato's perspective is because there isn't any alternative, not for them anyway. They never really even considered one. In part it's because there's a yawning void of intellectual capacity among nato leadership, but also these societies have become so ossified that the flexibility required to adapt to these new circumstances might very well not exist.

It's not rational, but at least the in US "rationality" was abandoned with the Bush administration. The dominating ideology of the empire is explicitly non-rational.

>We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.
>>

 No.482061

>>482051
>sentimental nonsense, countries are abstract entities that don't feel embarrassment
Ok, well it makes them look bad at functions.

>There can be only one hegemony and it's without a doubt the US.

Regional hegemony can exist… and Russia had it wrt Ukraine until the US/EU-backed coup. Russia actually does have a lot of regional influence, and that's been impacted by this war, although it's also had the effect of tightening their relationship with China.

>What the, you think world events are about personal anecdotes ?

No?
I think that when Russian nationalists write big speeches saying, in effect "the territory of Ukraine is ours and we don't recognize anything else" that they mean it. And there are Russian nationalists, including Putin, who mean it. It reflects a real political tendency within Russia, and I don't discount it when I consider the motivations behind Russia's actions.

>The Ukraine war was a proxy war between Nato and Russia. Nato wanted to get a foothold in Ukraine, and the Russians blew up Ukraine to prevent that.

This is an oversimplification, and you make the mistake of discounting the interest of Ukrainians themselves who were caught in the middle of all this. They aren't without agency. Pre-Maidan Ukraine wasn't just a puppet of Russia, and post-Maidan Ukraine wasn't just a product of NATO. I haven't seen any convincing evidence that there wasn't genuine hostility within Ukraine towards Russia which was exploited and bolstered by the US. The scale of the unrest isn't accounted for, nor is there any account I know of which suggests that Yanukovich wasn't at least as massively corrupt as his successors.

I also don't believe that NATO was ever serious about getting a foothold in Ukraine. I think that they knew the risk of provocation, and only intended to do some "not touching you!" shit with Russia. Ukraine being a member would have deterred a conflict, which would have been less profitable. Since the start of the war, we've seen increased militarization in the rest of Europe, and that plays into the MIC's hands wrt profits.

>They'll likely succeed at integrating the eastern part of Ukraine into Russia. I don't know what happens to the western part of Ukraine. The Russians seem to be trying to purge the neo fascistic right sector and then make a neutral rump Ukraine with pre-Euro-maidan politics.

It's a clusterfuck. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>The US wants to keep Ukraine happening going until the election Season is over, and then that project is finished. Zelensky is no longer democratically legitimized because he didn't hold elections. When the US is done with him, that'll make it easy to get rid off him.

I don't know. Maybe.
Actually, yeah. With Trump in office, probably - they're projecting continued genocide of Palestinians, and increased hostility towards China and Mexico. Although this could be a Nixon situation where he says he'll stop a war and just doesn't for several years, but I don't know. I think if Biden somehow gets a second term (no chance in Hell) it might actually be more likely to continue, but that's not gonna happen.

>Well the Russian game-plan was to roll in with the tanks and force the Ukrainians to negotiate. That almost worked the Ukrainians almost signed the Istanbul peace deal. That would have been a 2 months border skirmish, with an almost intact Ukraine and low body-count. They didn't foresee that the west could force Ukraine to sacrifice it self.

That's a good point!

>The strategic error the US made was to only look at Russia's relatively small economic foot-print in financial terms. They ignored the material industrial power when gauging strength.

It's difficult to believe they seriously did that. Someone has to have said something… I don't know. Unbelievably stupid, but with the neocons… you never know.
>>

 No.482062

>>482061
>I think that when Russian nationalists write big speeches saying, in effect "the territory of Ukraine is ours and we don't recognize anything else" that they mean it. And there are Russian nationalists, including Putin, who mean it.
Funny, I don't recall anything from Putin that actually goes this far. You sure you're not constructing a straw man, as neocon propagandists love to do? I don't see any reason to believe Russia would actually try to conquer the entirety of Ukraine including its Russophobic western region. It would be as John Mearsheimer describes: like swallowing a porcupine.
>>

 No.482063

>>482051
>Well the Russian game-plan was to roll in with the tanks and force the Ukrainians to negotiate. That almost worked the Ukrainians almost signed the Istanbul peace deal. That would have been a 2 months border skirmish, with an almost intact Ukraine and low body-count. They didn't foresee that the west could force Ukraine to sacrifice it self.
I do wonder what people in Ukraine and the rest of the world are going to write about this later. Will anyone be able to learn from this history?
>>

 No.482065

>>482063
>I do wonder what people in Ukraine and the rest of the world are going to write about this later.
History books are first written by the victors. In time history books get rewritten to fit the political sensibilities of the societies that follow. Eventually all political dimensions are lost and it becomes epochal descriptions, like we describe the stone age or the iron age. What's left will be something like:
<People used metal vehicles with projectile accelerators to kill each other..
To be fair it's gotten a lot easier to keep records, so maybe more historic information of our time will survive and future historians will have it easier to piece together a more objective view of the events of our time.

>Will anyone be able to learn from this history?

Oh yes many lessons will be learned, mind you, that also includes the wrong lessons.
The neocons will draw the conclusion that they did nothing wrong and they simply lacked enough weapons.
The Ukrainian nationalists will draw the conclusion that they need a higher birth-rate to generate more canon-fodder.
Other countries that watched the fate of Ukraine might learn to avoid having that done to them. Some US neocons very publicly floated the idea of applying the "Ukraine model" to Taiwan, and the Taiwanese reacted very negatively to that.
The Russians will likely conclude that the west is a beast with 3 heads. There is a racist head that wants to kill them, there is a trickster-head that wants to fool them and there is a consumption-head that wants to buy their industrial commodities. And their conclusion will be to wall off from the west and only seek contact when the consumption-head is in the ascendant.
The people that want to start WW3 will conclude that proxy-wars are insufficient kindling to set the world on fire.
The western weapons producers will draw the conclusion that their weapons need a user-interface that is easier/faster learned, otherwise their weapons will look bad if hastily assembled sacrificial conscripts are to use them.

I draw the conclusion that we need a UN that is more neutral/independent and less impotent. I'm thinking that it should be funded by a peace-tax. Every country whose population is currently not suffering combat deaths will be obligated to pay the peace-tax. And that money will be used to fund diplomatic missions and a special spy organization. Said spy organization will be tasked to sabotage the political conspiracies that precede and set off wars. I'm hoping that the peace-tax funding mechanism would keep it on mission, and turn into the an inverted CIA of sorts. I know that this is just manipulation of the superstructure and not really fixing the real causes for conflicts, however you can't blame me for wanting harm-reduction sand in the gears of war.
>>

 No.482070

>>482059
>It wasn't "rational" to start this conflict to begin with, but here we are.
Yeah this is endlessly frustusing (frustrating & confusing).

>For some of the people driving this, it's personal. The Kagan family is deeply invested in this conflict and have been since they helped pen Project For A New American Century. Their ngo Institute for the Study of War is basically entirely devoted to managing this war with Russia. Iirc, Victoria Nuland who is married to one of the Kagan brothers, I believe she's descended from Ukrainian Nazis that fled to the West after the war, so for her in particular this anti-Russian crusade is a personal vendetta.

>But aside from them, you've also got the Biden and Clinton families that also have a lot riding on this conflict and have invested significant capital in it.
This would be a dynamic similar to what happened in clan societies. How is that still happening, shouldn't the bourgeoisie have created a state bureaucracy that frustrates clan shenanigans ?
I'm not saying your wrong, you're obviously right about this, but how ?

>More generally though, the entire "rules based order" is riding on this. This will be the first time since the fall of the Soviet Union that another country has not only told the US "no," but also acted to physically stop it, and by all apparent evidence is succeeding.

I tend to agree but is this really the first time since the post Soviet era that they got blocked. The US did like 250-ish "military interventions" since the 90s. It wasn't all a victory lap, they lost a bunch of those.

>For the Atlanticist bourgeoisie, losing this war is a catastrophic outcome because it means their monopoly on violence is over and now there is a real alternative to their dictatorship.

It must seem like a catastrophe, loosing all that power. But is it really ? Consider that China spends about 10 times less to get the same amount of influence compared to the US. When the Chinese set up shop in some country, they build roads/rails, string up communication/power-lines, construct air/naval-ports and so on, and they get so much more bang for their buck compared to the US setting up military bases. I guess you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
The Chinese don't have a monopoly on building useful stuff, everybody can do that. Sending a digger construction vehicle is worth 10 reaper drones worth of influence.

>Not only is Russia fighting and winning, but it's doing so against "all of NATO." It shouldn't even be possible that this "gas station with nukes" could oppose them, not with "a gdp smaller than Italy's."

Yeah, all those think tanks and they never bothered to check whether Russia had a factory that could make lots of artillery shells.

>But also, part of the reason the war has to continue from Nato's perspective is because there isn't any alternative, not for them anyway. They never really even considered one.

I agree that Nato structures will never cease to pursue war with Russia, but Nato has been reduced to an arms lobby, it no longuer facilitates collective security. Europe has an incentive to dissolve Nato because it's the means by which the US keeps the disparate European militaries segregated in to small mostly ineffective national forces. If Nato goes away, Europe could consolidate all it's national armies into a European one. Weapons production could be consolidated as well, so much duplicate effort and incompatible technical standards could be economized away. Current structures are so un-optimized that you could reduce military spending by half while still massively increase force projection capabilities. I guess it would also require a few new political institutions, you have to let people elect the head-honcho who controles what that military does. Otherwise people won't go for it, but that's an administrative wrangle. Difficult but doable. Europe would become a "big place" that could have it's own foreign policy. I think it would elevate the people who favor keeping relations with Russia on non-hostile terms. Warm and friendly relations are not realistic for the foreseeable future but non-hostile would still be an improvement.

>It's not rational, but at least the in US "rationality" was abandoned with the Bush administration. The dominating ideology of the empire is explicitly non-rational.

Evidently this is true, but i still can't wrap my head around how "the crazies" end up running the show.
<We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.
I know that quote, in retrospect it's probably the most self defeating attitude of the neocons. Because obviously all their geopolitical opponents analyzed what the neocons were doing and began exploiting the neocon pattern, and the neocons can't adapt to it because they think only they create reality. For example the US neocons destabilize a region and then the Chinese swoop in with their "win-win cooperation" deals. As a result another neocon scheme to subjugate a vassal falls flat. They have lost like half a dozen countries this way in the last couple of years. Including Saudi Arabia, the US's knob for adjusting oil-prices. There is no reflection, all they do is go harder on what no longer works.
>>

 No.482081

>>482062
Mainly this: http://www.en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67828

Lenin criticised this plan and suggested making concessions to the nationalists, whom he called “independents” at that time. Lenin’s ideas of what amounted in essence to a confederative state arrangement and a slogan about the right of nations to self-determination, up to secession, were laid in the foundation of Soviet statehood. Initially they were confirmed in the Declaration on the Formation of the USSR in 1922, and later on, after Lenin’s death, were enshrined in the 1924 Soviet Constitution.

This immediately raises many questions. The first is really the main one: why was it necessary to appease the nationalists, to satisfy the ceaselessly growing nationalist ambitions on the outskirts of the former empire? What was the point of transferring to the newly, often arbitrarily formed administrative units – the union republics – vast territories that had nothing to do with them? Let me repeat that these territories were transferred along with the population of what was historically Russia.

Moreover, these administrative units were de facto given the status and form of national state entities. That raises another question: why was it necessary to make such generous gifts, beyond the wildest dreams of the most zealous nationalists and, on top of all that, give the republics the right to secede from the unified state without any conditions?

At first glance, this looks absolutely incomprehensible, even crazy. But only at first glance. There is an explanation. After the revolution, the Bolsheviks’ main goal was to stay in power at all costs, absolutely at all costs. They did everything for this purpose: accepted the humiliating Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, although the military and economic situation in Kaiser Germany and its allies was dramatic and the outcome of the First World War was a foregone conclusion, and satisfied any demands and wishes of the nationalists within the country.

When it comes to the historical destiny of Russia and its peoples, Lenin’s principles of state development were not just a mistake; they were worse than a mistake, as the saying goes. This became patently clear after the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991.

Of course, we cannot change past events, but we must at least admit them openly and honestly, without any reservations or politicking. Personally, I can add that no political factors, however impressive or profitable they may seem at any given moment, can or may be used as the fundamental principles of statehood.

I am not trying to put the blame on anyone. The situation in the country at that time, both before and after the Civil War, was extremely complicated; it was critical. The only thing I would like to say today is that this is exactly how it was. It is a historical fact. Actually, as I have already said, Soviet Ukraine is the result of the Bolsheviks’ policy and can be rightfully called “Vladimir Lenin’s Ukraine.” He was its creator and architect. This is fully and comprehensively corroborated by archival documents, including Lenin’s harsh instructions regarding Donbass, which was actually shoved into Ukraine. And today the “grateful progeny” has overturned monuments to Lenin in Ukraine. They call it decommunization.

You want decommunization? Very well, this suits us just fine. But why stop halfway? We are ready to show what real decommunizations would mean for Ukraine.

Going back to history, I would like to repeat that the Soviet Union was established in the place of the former Russian Empire in 1922. But practice showed immediately that it was impossible to preserve or govern such a vast and complex territory on the amorphous principles that amounted to confederation. They were far removed from reality and the historical tradition.

It is logical that the Red Terror and a rapid slide into Stalin’s dictatorship, the domination of the communist ideology and the Communist Party’s monopoly on power, nationalisation and the planned economy – all this transformed the formally declared but ineffective principles of government into a mere declaration. In reality, the union republics did not have any sovereign rights, none at all. The practical result was the creation of a tightly centralised and absolutely unitary state.

In fact, what Stalin fully implemented was not Lenin’s but his own principles of government. But he did not make the relevant amendments to the cornerstone documents, to the Constitution, and he did not formally revise Lenin’s principles underlying the Soviet Union. From the look of it, there seemed to be no need for that, because everything seemed to be working well in conditions of the totalitarian regime, and outwardly it looked wonderful, attractive and even super-democratic.

And yet, it is a great pity that the fundamental and formally legal foundations of our state were not promptly cleansed of the odious and utopian fantasies inspired by the revolution, which are absolutely destructive for any normal state. As it often happened in our country before, nobody gave any thought to the future.

It seems that the Communist Party leaders were convinced that they had created a solid system of government and that their policies had settled the ethnic issue for good. But falsification, misconception, and tampering with public opinion have a high cost. The virus of nationalist ambitions is still with us, and the mine laid at the initial stage to destroy state immunity to the disease of nationalism was ticking. As I have already said, the mine was the right of secession from the Soviet Union.

He goes over several points, including NATO (later on), but one of those points is the point above essentially just arguing that Ukraine is a fake state invented by the communists through overly lax policy.
>>

 No.482082

>>482081
Okay? But that's not the same thing as explicitly saying "the territory of Ukraine is ours and we don't recognize anything else". Putin chooses his words very careful, should the time come when he actually means to say something like that, he will say it. You might have more luck quote mining Medvedev for stuff like this.
>>

 No.482159

File: 1718390709826.mp4 ( 54.64 MB , 576x1024 , d2252cb384c4e14099944911fe….mp4 )

This reminded me just how brutal the wests exploitation is of women and children specifically and it made me fucking depressed.
>>

 No.482233

Russia-China relations “turning sour” as Putin “embarrasses” Xi | Roger Boyes

When Russia collapses, a lot of the former oblasts and autonomous regions will set up shop on their own and there will be a transition period while micro-nations form up, similar to what happened during the post-Soviet collapse. At best, the Duchies of Moscow and St Petersburg will have each other and a bit of hinterland, and all the rest of the russias can get back to what they were doing before the tsars arrived.

Tuva, of all places, is technically claimed by the Taiwanese Government, as it was part of China under the Kuomintang.

Chukotka and Kamchatka could well become American.
>>

 No.482234

>>482233
sounds like cope
the overly aggressive neocon foreign policy made the Russians and the Chinese mend the break that occurred during the Sino-Soviet split.
>>

 No.482235

>>482233
Supreme delusion.
>>

 No.482400

I heard something about a beach and some church attacks. What's going on in Russia, now?

>>482233
Delusional.
>>

 No.482405

>>482233
Kek this guy just dropped his fan fiction
>>

 No.482430

>>482400
>I heard something about a beach and some church attacks.
The Ukrainians shot an US-made missile at Russia. It exploded above a beach and killed a bunch of tourists. Apparently it was filled with cluster bomblets, and the death-toll was quite high. The Russians are blaming the US for this because they're doing the battlefield intelligence to steer these missiles on target.

The Ukrainians and the US say they shot the missile at a Russian military base, and a Russian anti-air defense system intercepted it, and that's what exploded the missile.

I think the US will get blamed for this because they were the ones that brought the death pinata to the beach in the first place. Especially because it's cluster munitions that killed civilians, again.

The Russians might do a partial no-fly-zone for unmanned spy drones, forcing the US to use more expensive manned spy-planes to maintain the ability to target missiles.

Another response might be that the Russians will dial up the jamming systems until it blurs the line to directed energy weapons, and it begins to damage the spy equipment, to force the US to re-engineer the drones.

The Russians could conclude that the US is scheming to get Russian civilians killed, and then retaliate in kind.

I think the moral of the story is to get rid of cluster munitions. If this had been a normal missile, the likelihood of injuring anybody would have been low, even if it popped above a crowded beach. The death pinatas aren't worth the trouble.
>>

 No.482456

>>482430
The Ukrainian media response has been to say that there cannot be any beaches on the peninsula and any civilians present are occupiers of Ukrainian land. They're not even interested in ambiguously framing this as a whoopsie-daisy.
>>

 No.482458

>>482456
>The Ukrainian media response has been to say that there cannot be any beaches on the peninsula
Wait what ? they're denying the existence of a geographic feature ?

>They're not even interested in ambiguously framing this as a whoopsie-daisy.

Do they not realize that blowing up civilians with cluster bombs on purpose, makes them the baddies ?
>>

 No.482496

>>482456
Correction: it wasn't the Ukrainian media that said this. It was actually one of Zelensky's advisors.
>>

 No.482507

>>482496
<beaches are fictitious
they definitely lost it
>>

 No.482510

>>482507
>beaches are fictitious
I think he is saying is that he does not believes that there are civilians having fun on the beech behind Russian lines because Putin is such an evil dictator or something.
>>

 No.482512

File: 1719518651790.png ( 8.73 KB , 1000x1000 , mandatoryfun.png )

>>482510
>he does not believes that there are civilians having fun on the beech behind Russian lines
Well in that case, it's still a crazy argument that says the Ukrainian fun-police will drop a cluster bomb on people that go to the beach without having fun.
>>

 No.482522

>>482512
>Well in that case, it's still a crazy argument that says the Ukrainian fun-police will drop a cluster bomb on people that go to the beach without having fun.
It is a demented post I just wanted to point out he is obviously not denying the geographical existence of beeches. The implied context is that there are no civilians on those beeches because Putin is evil and Russia is losing and whatever lies the CIA has been telling.
>>

 No.482548

>>482522
>I just wanted to point out he is obviously not denying the geographical existence of beeches. The implied context is that there are no civilians on those beeches
So they're saying the civilians they murdered were fictitious.
>It is a demented post
indeed
>>

 No.482708

Haven't followed the war in a while… has Ukraine taken back Crimea yet?
>>

 No.482712

>>482708
The Ukrainians managed to blow up a few tourists on a beach in Sevastopol with a carpet-bomb/missile type thing. The Russians got seriously mad at the US for letting their ukro-proxy do that. There appeared to have been some sort of dialog between US and Russian officials but we don't know how that went.

The rest is continuation of attrition, the Ukrainians might be loosing up to 3000 people a day (according to some estimations). They're down to kidnapping people off the streets because there's no volunteers left. Can't be long until there's regime collapse.

I'm sort of hoping that many of those people who got designated as cannon-fodder just ran away from the battle, and will turn up alive after the war.

A diplomatic end to the fighting is still possible but the chances for that are slim.

The neocon blob thinks they can keep this going by funding mercenary/rebel/terror groups after the fall of the current Ukrainian regime, but it looks like the people motivated for that kind of thing, probably fell early in the war already.

Most people in the west stopped giving a shit about this, a year ago, and only took note of it when a certain french macaroni suggested to send NATO troops, and that noodle lost an election over it. So i guess in a few months the entire thing will get memory-holed. Especially because Israel might be in the process of disassembling it self by then.
>>

 No.482777

>>482708
>has Ukraine taken back Crimea yet?
My sweet summer child, at some point you are going to find out there were never any WMDs in Iraq.
>>

 No.482789

File: 1720737631050.webm ( 306.95 KB , 640x360 , president-Putin-of-Ukrain….webm )

lol
>>

 No.482799

>>482789
I wish all our presidents were this demented.
>>

 No.482818

A short while ago a missile hit a school in Ukraine. There were contradictory claims about who done it. A few blurry inconclusive pictures and nothing in terms of an independent investigation.

The reason to bring this up at all is because Bellingcat is now claiming they can prove it was the Russians. Which ihmo means that it likely was the Ukrainians. Bellingcat is one of the worst propaganda outlets there is, they've made up so many outrageous lies in the past that simply inverting their claims is a pretty reasonable bet. Bellingcat is also known for attacking investigative journalists.

My initial interpretation was this school got hit on accident, either by the Ukrainians having malfunctioning equipment or the Russians having bad target intel. But now i think a third option is possible: The Ukrainians may have blown up one of their own schools to create negative PR.
>>

 No.482820

>>482818
Bellingcat's original founding purpose was attempting to manufacture Russian culpability in the Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 disaster.
>>

 No.482821

>>482818
Didn't the Azov battalion do something similar to a theater in Mariupol?
>>

 No.482823

>>482820
>Bellingcat's original founding purpose was attempting to manufacture Russian culpability in the Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 disaster.
Thanks for sharing, i had already forgotten what had spawned it.

>>482821
>Didn't the Azov battalion do something similar to a theater in Mariupol?
There were so many Azov horror stories, i mussed have missed this particular episode.
>>

 No.482834

>>482818
school was hit but it was full of combatants probably. ukrops do that. they film themselves doing that.
>>

 No.482836

>>482834
>school was hit but it was full of combatants probably. ukrops do that. they film themselves doing that.
I guess that if a empty school building is garrisoned by combatants it would be technically legal to destroy it.

However it's probably not worth the trade offs. Your intel could be wrong, and it's civilians hiding in it. Also if you can keep the municipal buildings intact, it'll be much easier to rebuild after the war. From a tactics point of view it's not necessarily a disadvantage. If the other side figures out that you spare certain types of buildings, they're likely going to seek those out as shelter. And it means those buildings can be a lure for intercepting troops trying to get to it. If there are already troops sheltering inside, they'll be stranded as in everything around the protected building is lava. That's a good way to tie up enemy combat forces. You just need to leave one spotter that can call in an airstrike the moment enemy forces try to leave.

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