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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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 No.476326[View All]

The nuclear threat is back. But we don't see any nuclear panic like in the 1980s. Why is that? Why does nobody care?

I am not some prepper retard but even I am getting nervous.

Just look at this shit
A time of unprecedented danger: It is 90 seconds to midnight
https://thebulletin.org/doomsday-clock/current-time/
>This year, the Science and Security Board of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists moves the hands of the Doomsday Clock forward, largely (though not exclusively) because of the mounting dangers of the war in Ukraine. The Clock now stands at 90 seconds to midnight—the closest to global catastrophe it has ever been.
>As UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres warned in August, the world has entered “a time of nuclear danger not seen since the height of the Cold War.”

and also this
US Nuclear Test Raises Concerns of New Arms Race With Russia
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-19/us-nuclear-test-on-day-of-kremlin-s-treaty-abdication-fuels-doubt

https://archive.ph/EoqWY

>The US conducted a high-explosive experiment at a nuclear test site in Nevada just hours after Russia revoked a ban on atomic-weapons testing, prompting concerns of a new arms race between the world’s top nuclear powers.


So, are you going to PROTECT AND SURVIVE, anon? Or are you just going to give up everything and die?
154 posts and 29 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
>>

 No.484539

To say that "this works" when it never worked that way. Strategic bombing of German cities had no appreciable effect on the outcome of the war, and it was intended as eugenics taking a victory lap for getting the world to suffer yet again for it.

How much longer will you people lie like sniveling cowards? We do not have much longer. You fags. You complete, disgusting fags.
>>

 No.484541

>>484536
>We're not discussing whether to mine the sun's rays with space probes
No the discussion was about this >>484324
as in setting up a moon-base, for power collectors.

>>484537
>Israel is using nukes, Russia is using nukes, Ukraine is being given nukes to fire at Russia
none of this is actually happening

>>484538
>It turns out, nukes are not an automatic win button
Yes nukes are an automatic everybody-looses button.

>the nuclear weapons are in use for tactical deployment

<muh tacticool nukes
Making nukes smaller doesn't make them anymore usable, that's just a sales pitch of the people trying to make money off this. Small nukes still cause fallout. The political and the radioactive kind.

The biggest weapon that is "usable" are rocket accelerated high velocity kinetic impactors. They can reach similar power-density, but they don't make a big mess and they're really targeted, so you don't get massive civilian "collateral damage".
>>

 No.484542

>>484541
What tactical nukes actually do is increase the likelihood of an all-out nuclear exchange by presenting more situations for them to be used.
>>

 No.484545

>>484541
Since when was war neat and clean, conforming to this conceit of efficiency that never exists? Generals expect the dead to shit their pants as they die.

Tactical nukes are used for breaking formations, staging, siege equipment. No one is going to pattycake around their arsenal forever, even in this fake Germanic fashion of war. You have to invent reality to pretend that what is happening isn't actually happening.

It is basically confirmed Israel is using their nukes on Lebanon - that's what "bunker busters" are. You are misinformed about everything because you substitute this self-serving narrative with what someone would do with the tools at their disposal.
Nukes were used in 2003, and they bragged "we totally didn't use nukes, but they look like nukes!" Meanwhile you screeching retards think the nuke is a win button that kills everything, because everyone is too stupid to cover, and those selected to die will die. It's how you're trained to think, and it's a religion for you.

Nuke wars get ugly because all pretenses are off if they become general. All of the lies that wars can be far away and controlled by narratives don't stand up to the reality of a protracted war.

You people denied the reality of the Iraq War, ran cover for it when Obama gave you permission, and then rewrote history. You sniveling cowards make me sick.
>>

 No.484546

>>484542
This is the retard way of thinking how a weapon is used. The only way the "big nukes" are used is by tacit agreement, because they're using them to kill us and mutually win against their shared enemy. But, those "big nukes" don't do what you think they do, and that scenario does not play out as you believe. Every time you do it, you out yourself as a eugenist or, worse, an enabler.

"Big nukes" would level a city's buildings, but the people? They would live if there is but a few cubic feet of concrete between them and the surface. Building bunkers against the nukes is not too difficult for a large population.
The use of "bunker busters" in Lebanon required a lot of them to hit the target they wanted when they merked Nasrallah. Countries only have so many of these weapons stockpiled, and Israel's military industry is garbage.

You lie and keep lying, and you're on the spot to insist on this Germanic magical thinking version of history where nothing ever changes until it is mediated. You fucking Satanic coward!
>>

 No.484547

It's always the same smug, the same Satanic smirk that you get away with this shit yet again. People like you are why this happened, more than the people at the top. You not only make it so easy for the rulers to do this, but you clamor to make it worse for us because the only idea you ever had was to kick down, stoke panic, and celebrate your smug. Filth.
>>

 No.484548

Unlike you, I don't panic. Most people talk to each other and have some sense of what a nuke war would be, figured out the government lies about everything. It does not do what you believe it does - and nothing you believe is how reality works, because you don't believe there is a reality. Only reality for you is smug and the thrill of killing us.
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 No.484549

I have, however, resigned myself to the stupidity of people like you being the dominant force in human history, and so, that does produce a sickness and despair in me, because it's too much for you fucking Satanics to be honest about anything, but you love lying. Filthy German cowards.
>>

 No.484551

>>484542
>What tactical nukes actually do is increase the likelihood of an all-out nuclear exchange by presenting more situations for them to be used.
Yeah you might be right, the country that gets attacked by a "tactical" nuke isn't going to make that distinction, and just consider it a nuke and trigger the standard retaliation. While the country that uses a "tactical" nuke is self-deluding that it's somehow a lesser aggression. Which has the result of lowering the threshold of a conflagration.
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 No.484552

>>484551
People don't inexorably act like cowardly faggots who will shoot everything in sight if they're given a gun. That's what Fabians tell you to be. If you're edgelording and think war is limited to some cutesy narrative, you're a bigger retard than I thought.
>>

 No.484553

>>484545
This reads like you are trying to normalize nuclear weapons.
>>

 No.484557

>>484553
They are normal. Why else would you be told ad nauseum to accept this knife at your throat by those who clearly benefit from telling you you're not allowed to say what is done to you?
>>

 No.484565

What also gets me is that you act like we're not living under a depopulation regime, as millions drop dead from poison vaccines and the rightists brag about what they got away with and brag they will do again when they retake power. You people are disgusting cowards.

The true war is the eugenics war. All wars are eugenics wars now.
>>

 No.484569

>>484557
>They are normal.
Doomsday-devices will never be normal.

>Why else would you be told ad nauseum to accept this knife at your throat

But they're not accepted, most people think that nuclear stockpiles should be reduced further. Most people want the arms-control treaties back.
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 No.484583

>>484569
You already normalized them by screeching like a retard and believing wars are all planned and written as narratives. The truth is that there is no "doomsday device" - except for the institutions which exist to create doom, and the human beings who embrace that fate. It's really sad.

If we were to speak at all about what this bullshit has been, we would ask why we ever allowed this insinuation to start. Declare universal peace and be done with it. But, eugenics will not allow that until their torture is absolute. They will not let us live. For the favored, it has been a one world government since the 1990s. They can move anywhere they like.
>>

 No.484657

File: 1727853638969.jpg ( 29.92 KB , 690x387 , 4509d9f-sarmat_690x387.jpg )

<A Russian nuclear missile exploded in its silo, leaving a 60-meter-wide crater, highlighting issues with the Sarmat missile program, which was originally set to be operational by 2018. The incident raises concerns for Russia’s strategic nuclear forces, but according to IISS researcher Timothy Wright, it does not threaten the country's overall nuclear deterrent.

<The Sarmat missile, also known as RS-SS-X-29, is a three-stage ICBM intended to replace the aging RS-20 Voevoda missiles. Development has faced delays, partly due to the loss of expertise after cooperation with a Ukrainian company ended following Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea. Satellite images from the Plesetsk Cosmodrome show the test silo was destroyed, likely due to an engine malfunction causing the missile to fall back and explode.


<With four failed tests and only one success, the Sarmat program faces potential cancellation, which would pose challenges for Russia's nuclear forces. A third of its land-based nuclear warheads are still mounted on the outdated Voevoda missiles. Despite the Sarmat's setbacks, Russia’s nuclear deterrent remains secure due to modernization of other missile systems.
>>

 No.484663

>>484583
>The truth is that there is no "doomsday device" - except for the institutions which exist to create doom, and the human beings who embrace that fate.
This is an interesting point. The doomsday device isn't just the big plutonium fission ignited hydrogen fusion warhead, it's also the people and organizations who try to make it go off. These people should be counted as sub-components of the doomsday device as much as the nuclear materials.
>>

 No.484689

>>484663
It is the command and control mechanism that is the fetish. It's not the bomb itself, but the big shiny red button that is presented as your instant solution to overpopulation - vaporize a million or a billion people, all so convenient and automatic. Do you get how absurd that is as an engineering problem if you think for five minutes, let alone a military engineering problem that is intended to be used against live targets who have a habit of not assembling in one place to stand and die on your terms? It takes some doing to engineer the kind of situation Hannibal did to kill so many Romans, and he eventually ran out of tactics to line up the Romans.
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 No.484821

>>484657
So this was the epic wunderwaffe that was supposed to destroy Europe? LOL
>>

 No.484827

>>484689
I think "overpopulation" is made up.
but you make an astute observation:
>vaporize a million or a billion people, all so convenient and automatic. Do you get how absurd that is as an engineering problem if you think for five minutes
Yeah imagine talking to an alien anthropologist, and they ask
why did you build a machine to irradiate your planet ?
>>

 No.484847

>>484827
Of course it is made up - overpopulation was posed as part of this narrative that the managers would have the "vaporize useless eaters" button offered, and associated with rewards of abundance.

I doubt an alien would see humanity as anything other than an abomination worthy of extermination, and seeing humanity in its present state, the aliens would summarily exterminate such a monstrous race. I would feel great if that happened.
>>

 No.484848

>>484821
Russians still have the older ICBM's but I hope for their sake that MAD still applies and holds. The only rational thing to do is full nuclear war if Russia cant retaliate back.
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 No.484853

>>484848
Their Sarmat program appears to be borked, they probably can unbork it, rockets exploding on the launchpad during development is not unusual, but even if they don't, Russia still has more advanced missile systems than anybody and at least a 15 year lead over the US's missile systems. So MAD is not being endangered here.

I think MAD will hold until we can make really powerful directed energy weapons. At that point the concept of a missile as a delivery system for some kind of war-head that explodes at the destination, will go obsolete.

Missiles will morph into the acceleration mechanism for purely kinetic impact weapons, which i assume are less vulnerable to directed energy weapons. I mean vaporizing a large chunk of metal in a short time at a distance probably isn't going to be feasible for a very long time.
>>

 No.485582

lmao
Liz Truss spent final days in office ‘preparing for Putin to fire nuclear weapons’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-putin-ukraine-russia-nuclear-b2645407.html

>Ms Truss had been told the Russian president was just hours from deploying a nuke, which Whitehall officials feared would hurl radioactive material into the atmosphere which could spread 1,700 miles from the blast, according to Out of the Blue, an unauthorised biography of the short-serving former PM.

>An updated edition of the book, by journalists Harry Cole and James Heale, said Ms Truss spent “numerous hours studying satellite weather data and wind directions” over fears the “wrong weather patterns” could have a “direct fallout effect on Britain”.
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 No.485585

File: 1731434015819.png ( 46.16 KB , 620x450 , putin smirk.png )

>>485582
What an unfathomably stupid thing to do. If you're a head of state and genuinely convinced that nuclear war is imminent, why wouldn't you be trying to avert it. It's not like you can dodge the effects of a nuclear war.

Also Putin living in her head rent free.
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 No.485674

File: 1731685077768.gif ( 269.91 KB , 500x344 , 5e692f3f73bd4411e5076d0817….gif )

UN to conduct new study of the broad impacts of nuclear war. Not all countries want to know
https://thebulletin.org/2024/11/un-to-conduct-new-study-of-the-broad-impacts-of-nuclear-war-not-all-countries-want-to-know/
>The UN General Assembly voted overwhelmingly last week in favor of launching a two-year study on the effects of nuclear war—the first such expert study the UN has pursued since the 1980s. A total of 144 UN member states, including only one nuclear power, China, voted in favor. Some important NATO members also voted in favor of the resolution, including Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, and Greece. Russia, France, and the United Kingdom voted against the resolution, while other nuclear states, including the United States, abstained.

>The United Kingdom, France, and Russia did not provide official statements explaining their votes against the resolution at the United Nations. “Nuclear war would have devastating consequences for humanity. We don’t need an independent scientific panel to tell us that,” a UK Foreign Office spokesperson told The Guardian


Don't you love to live in 1980s 2.0 ? We will have bunch of smart asses (like Sagan back in the day) telling us that nukes are le bad (like we don't know) and state officials saying that the nukes maybe bad and dangerous but we need them to scare off the evil guys from the east (like it's worth destroying whole planet)
>>

 No.485680

>>485674
>We will have bunch of smart asses (like Sagan back in the day) telling us that nukes are le bad (like we don't know)
Sure, but Carl Sagan was awesome.

<The earth is a very small stage

< in a vast cosmic arena
<Think of the rivers of blood
< spilled by all those generals and emperors
<So that in glory and triumph
< they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot
https://farside.link/invidious/watch?v=wupToqz1e2g

We need people like that to deflate the egos of all those cold-warriors with rhetorical eloquence.

I know it's political circus, but I want detente politics and i want the arms-control treaties back, so I'm going to cheer for this.

It's not particularly difficult to calculate the matter to energy conversions in fission and fusion reactions, nor is it particularly difficult to find out how it couples to the environment. We're not going to learn much we didn't already know, we'll get more detailed simulations, with nicer graphics and more granular projections of consequences, because computers have faster processors and more memory.

I'd rather have a do-over of the 80s science project with the simulations than somebody trying it out for real. I know it feels a little performative, because we've seen this play before. But I can't listen to those war-hawks anymore, they make me feel the urge to beat them to a pulp, it's unpleasant, i'd rather listen to le science communicator guy.
>>

 No.485681

>>485674
we never left the 1980s
>>

 No.485685

>>485680
>We need people like that to deflate the egos of all those cold-warriors with rhetorical eloquence.
Except that pompous hosreshit poem you posted doesn't do that.
<why do people fight over earth when the universe is so big lolol
If looking through a telescope and seeing a tiny smudge of light for 1 million light years away changes your perspective on geopolitics you are a fucking retard. We can't interact with a galaxy 1 million light years away. We can't even meaningfully interact with anything outside earth's immediate orbit. As far as humans are concerned earth is the universe.

Also lol at you "cold-warriors" smear. They are not your enemy my dude. Without the cold war none of your deficit tripling socialist space agencies would exist in the first place. You should be thanking those cold warriors for funding your naval gazing space masturbation "research" all these decades.
>>

 No.485692

>>485685
>As far as humans are concerned earth is the universe.
That's provincial cope, being ruler of the world will at some point be seen as being the village champion at flopping tractor tires sideways across a field, where 150 people were really impressed for a weekend.

>You should be thanking those cold warriors for funding

Yeah in the 50s, 60s and maybe the 70s. After that it tapered off. And it was never a charitable contribution. They got the missile tech for nuke-deliveries and all the tech for com-sats and spy-sats out of it. You don't get the top-people interested into solving your next-level technical challenges unless there's a higher purpose like exploration.

Today space exploration is the step-child.
<Got anything we can use for doomsday devices ?
<No ?
<Here have some crumbs to stick around just in case we need space stuff.

The hole reason humanity can't even meaningfully interact with anything outside earth's immediate orbit, is because we didn't complete the ladder into space, we put like 3 rungs into it, then we stopped adding more rungs.

The next rung is putting up a basic space-ring, it's a type of large structure that is held up not by material properties alone but also by using some energy. It performs the same duty as a space-elevator except that you don't need special super-strong materials, or any other types of unobtanium.

It's the next step beyond rockets, it's like infrastructure, it costs a lot to build, has lots of complicated political and bureaucratic hurdles but once set up it improves efficiency by orders of magnitudes and operating costs plummet. We had the technology and the industrial power to do this for several decades. Just as an example of opportunity costs, that 20 year war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria,… that would've funded half a dozen space-rings, and I'm talking premium model with the option for space apartments.

Consider that the biggest space project that has been completed til now was the ISS and that wasn't build with the spirit of cold-war competition. International cooperation made that happen.

I don't see the cold-warriors as likely candidates for a political marriage with the space-explorers anymore. If the ladder into space gets completed it will set off the industrialization of space, the available resources and energy dwarfs anything on earth, by an incomprehensible amount, It'll be 3-4 hundred years of expansion. All the conflicts the cold-warriors care about will fade into obscurity, like all the other historic turf-wars that never got settled and just became irrelevant with civilizational leaps. It's like the cold-warriors really care about winning this level instead of leveling-up to the next one.
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 No.485712

>>485685
cope, humoid. the dustbin of history is waitin
>>

 No.485727

File: 1731918442382.mp4 ( 56.83 MB , 1920x1080 , what posadists actually be….mp4 )

ITS HAPENINGG1!!!
>>

 No.485729

File: 1731926767534.jpg ( 29.71 KB , 375x342 , nukefinger.jpg )

Well lads, looks like this is it. The petty demented old man in the white house has decided to cross a massive Russian red line and potentially initiate World War 3 all just to spite his incoming rival in the next administration.

https://consortiumnews.com/2024/11/17/on-way-out-reckless-biden-allows-deep-russia-strikes/
>>

 No.485730

>>485727
>>485729
am i gonna die?
>>

 No.485731

>>485729
>After one-term president George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton in the 1992 election, Bush used those 11 weeks to invade Somalia, saddling Clinton with a foreign policy crisis that would bog him down and distract him from his agenda.
Does this disprove the accusations of the US government being a one-party system?
>>

 No.485732

>>485729
The Russians could still wait with a retaliation until after Trump takes office. If Trump is as transactional as he claims, maybe there's a mutually acceptable deal to be had. He gets to play the star negotiator that "talked down the Russians". And the Russians get lots of security concessions.

The Russians do have a lot of leverage in this negotiation, because they do have the ability to level up the military capabilities of all those Factions in west-Asia/middle-east, until they can make Israel go away.
That means a trade: Ukraine for Israel.

Those Attackums are not the newest sword in the rack, it's somewhat likely that Russian air-defences can counter, at least enough to minimize the damage.

So we're at the edge of the abyss.
>>

 No.485733

>>485730
>am i gonna die?
You're a mortal being, so definitely yes.
Whether you'll die in a nuclear war in a few weeks that remains to be seen.
>>

 No.485734

>>485731
<After one-term president George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton in the 1992 election, Bush used those 11 weeks to invade Somalia, saddling Clinton with a foreign policy crisis that would bog him down and distract him from his agenda.
>Does this disprove the accusations of the US government being a one-party system?
It sounds more like a argument for the US being a one-party system. Because that sounds like a mechanism to prevent political change.
>>

 No.485735

>>485729
When I created this thread a year ago, everyone here was like " nah not gonna happen" and here we are
>>

 No.485736

>>485735
I know this feels like some kind of threshold. But if the Russians knock down a Missile factory in the US, UK or where ever those are made.

What are they gonna do ? Send NATO troops to Ukraine, western populations don't give a damn and will not fight for this. Not that it matters because they don't even have the weapons to arm the Ukrainians.

They could pull forces from other places to focus on the Russians, but then the Chinese take Taiwan, bully Japan and Australia to close down US military bases, while Iranians close down the straight of Hormuz, smash up Issreal and wipe out all the US military bases within their reach.

Think they'd flush what's left of the empire down the drain, all in one go, to avenge a missile factory ?

There's always a chance that the Russians interdict the missiles and it does nothing, and all of this just fizzles out. So don't loose your head.
>>

 No.485745

File: 1732022334209.png ( 53.11 KB , 736x658 , clownish.png )

>>485729
>>485730
>>485731
>>485732
>>485733
>>485734
>>485735
>>485736
The entire thing is probably a nothing burger.

Apparently the ATACMS missiles won't be delivered until after Trump gets into office. So if he's honest about wanting to exit the Ukraine war, he can just cancel the missile deliveries and that'll be the end of it.

Just a political stunt.
>>

 No.485749

>>485745
>The entire thing is probably a nothing burger.
>So if he's honest about wanting to exit the Ukraine war
LOL
>>

 No.485750

>>485736
>I know this feels like some kind of threshold. But if the Russians knock down a Missile factory in the US, UK or where ever those are made.
>What are they gonna do ? Send NATO troops to Ukraine, western populations don't give a damn and will not fight for this.

If Russia actually struck US or UK soil, there would absolutely be an open direct "intervention" lol. The US wouldn't invade "just" for Ukraine, but would absolutely invade if they had a pretext like that, even if the American public thought it was stupid.

>>485732
I think this is probably what's actually going on - for the record, I don't buy the notion that Trump & Biden are at odds at all. Biden is basically handing Trump a domestic political victory, where Trump can get credit for "deescalating" the conflict in Ukraine without actually doing anything to effectively end the war. The American state will seek to minimize concessions made to Russia, probably try to keep the war going on in Ukraine (even if at a lower boil), and try to get Russia not to intervene against US attacks on Syria & Iran, and possibly to be neutral in future fuckery in China/the ROC.

There are a few problems with this, though. Firstly, the US has proven itself to be very dishonest in the past, and Russia is unlikely to abandon its current partners for the US, especially China, which the US sees as the biggest threat.
Secondly, if Russia does abandon Iran, that will still prove to be a bad deal economically for both Russia & China, because the ensuing war will interrupt oil & trade routes. This outcome, even if Russia was to agree to it, would be a disaster for the region & for the people of the US as well. It's unlikely that this would actually be contained, even to just that region.
Thirdly, even if it is "contained" (and Israel effectively expands further), that's obviously a complete disaster which is unlikely to remain contained for very long.

So it's likely a more 'nuanced' strategy than it seems on the surface, yes, but it is still incredibly dumb.
>>

 No.485754

>>485750
>If Russia actually struck US or UK soil, there would absolutely be an open direct "intervention" lol. The US wouldn't invade "just" for Ukraine, but would absolutely invade
The US doesn't have the ability to deploy 5% of the ground forces required for an invasion of Russia and Europe won't have the ability to field a military until it's got at least a decade of social democrats doing a re-industrialization. So don't be ridiculess.

The US currently does not have a counter for Russian anti-air and anti-ship weapons, so it likely would turn into a long distance missile slog fest.

Scott Ritter and Larry Wilkerson think Russia might decapitate the Zelensky regime as retaliation to the recent red-line crossing. The logic being that's the thread they can pull to unravel the neocon project in Ukraine.

Your premise that Russia is motivated to exercise restraint based on western military prowess likely isn't true. They just won a war of attrition against NATO. It's more likely the Russians would choose not to rock the boat too much because they promised China to not spoil their peaceful rise.

If you zoom out all the way, it appears almost as if all those countries are searching for the thing they can threaten in order to deter the neocons from the war-path.
>>

 No.485756

>>485754
>The US doesn't have the ability to deploy 5% of the ground forces required for an invasion of Russia and Europe won't have the ability to field a military until it's got at least a decade of social democrats doing a re-industrialization.
What's ridiculous is expecting the current US leadership to look at its limitations and make a rational decision based on those.

>Scott Ritter and Larry Wilkerson think Russia might decapitate the Zelensky regime as retaliation to the recent red-line crossing. The logic being that's the thread they can pull to unravel the neocon project in Ukraine.

Ritter's too optimistic sometimes tbh.
This would be more effective than striking the US directly ftr, though.

>Your premise that Russia is motivated to exercise restraint based on western military prowess likely isn't true. They just won a war of attrition against NATO. It's more likely the Russians would choose not to rock the boat too much because they promised China to not spoil their peaceful rise.

When was that ever my premise?
>>

 No.485757

>>485750
>I don't buy the notion that Trump & Biden are at odds at all. Biden is basically handing Trump a domestic political victory
Why ascribe to conspiracy when you can simply attribute this to a demented, spiteful old man who is no longer mentally competent enough to think ahead?
>>

 No.485758

>>485750
>I think this is probably what's actually going on - for the record, I don't buy the notion that Trump & Biden are at odds at all. Biden is basically handing Trump a domestic political victory, where Trump can get credit for "deescalating" the conflict in Ukraine without actually doing anything to effectively end the war. The American state will seek to minimize concessions made to Russia.
OK if they're doing a really clever good cop bad cop routine, why are they doing all the other really dumb shit ? They had some major self-owns lately, like helping to bootstrap BRICS, accelerating dedolarization, tanking western economies, provoking a war without having enough ammunition to fight it and on and on. I don't really see what they gain from duping the Russians into delaying a retaliation.

>There are a few problems with this, though. Firstly, the US has proven itself to be very dishonest in the past, and Russia is unlikely to abandon its current partners for the US,

I don't think betrayal was ever on the table. I think the deal that can be had is that the Russians could be moved to convince the Iranians to not get nukes and not finish-off Israel, if they get in return a Ukraine arrangement that they like.

At the moment Israel is destroying it self chasing after gReaTer iSrael. Iran will soon become the dominant regional player as a result, and the Russians probably are the only ones that can convince Iranians to have mercy.

Keep in mind that the more force-projection the US has to expend to prop up Is-failed-state-rael the fewer resources there will be for messing with Russia. So for the Russians it probably doesn't matter that much which way this goes.

>So it's likely a more 'nuanced' strategy than it seems on the surface

It looks like unhinged emotional decisions without any strategy what so ever.
>>

 No.485759

>>485756
>What's ridiculous is expecting the current US leadership to look at its limitations and make a rational decision based on those.
Ok there's truth to that. But the Pentagon probably wouldn't go along with it, they've demonstrated self-preservation so far.

>Ritter's too optimistic sometimes tbh.

>This would be more effective than striking the US directly ftr, though.
So hypothetically if the Russian decapitate Ukraine, that'll be the result ?

>When was that ever my premise?

OK never mind then.
>>

 No.485760

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA2312-1.html



Chinese Communist Party General Secretary Xi Jinping's reported order to the Chinese military to be prepared to invade Taiwan by 2027 and China's ongoing nuclear buildup have raised U.S. concerns over the prospect of a U.S.-China conflict. A conflict with China would be distinct from the wars the United States has fought in the post–Cold War period against regional powers without nuclear weapons. This report summarizes a series of reports on how U.S. joint long-range strike, especially the U.S. Air Force's bomber force, could adapt to better balance military operational effectiveness, force survivability, and escalation management to achieve desired military and political objectives without triggering catastrophic escalation, specifically Chinese nuclear first use.

This report is the product of a mixed-methods research approach that combined regional studies, analytic strategic theory, and historical case studies, all informed by operational analysis. The authors (1) conducted original Chinese-language research leveraging open-source Chinese military writings; (2) supplemented the limited information available from open-source Chinese military writings with historical case studies and a broad review of analytic strategic theory dating back to early RAND work in the 1950s, along with a literature review of Western scholarship on China; (3) reviewed publicly available U.S. Department of Defense documents and recent non-U.S. government wargames; and (4) developed an analytic framework that linked China’s nuclear escalation with specific technical or employment characteristics of U.S. joint long-range strike.
Key Findings

If fully committed to fighting and winning a war with China, the United States must be prepared for nuclear escalation and place more emphasis on managing these risks.
China's nuclear threshold is unclear but also likely movable, meaning that the United States has an opportunity to make the threshold better (but also risks making it worse).
There will likely be trade-offs among military operational utility, force survivability, and escalation management.
The single most influential factor under U.S. military control for managing escalation is target selection.
Munitions can have a direct impact on the U.S. military's ability to manage escalation.

Recommendations

Prioritize development of a robust denial capability to minimize the need for kinetic strikes on mainland China and to reduce the risk of nuclear escalation.
Build a portfolio of U.S. joint long-range strike force structures, postures, and capabilities to execute war plans across various possible mainland strike authorizations.
Ensure the ability to prosecute a variety of targeting plans that can help balance operational effectiveness, force survivability, and escalation management.
Manage Chinese perceptions of long-range strike before and during a war.
Incorporate considerations of escalation risk into the acquisition process, especially for systems that are likely to appear highly escalatory to Chinese leadership.
Establish an Escalation Management Center of Excellence at the U.S. Air Force Global Strike Command both to train senior and junior personnel and to have a dedicated organizational structure through which escalation risks can be weighed during peacetime force development.
Avoid making U.S. long-range strike capabilities an attractive target for a limited Chinese nuclear strike.
Avoid long-range strike missions that could accidentally or inadvertently engage a nuclear armed third-party, such as Russia or North Korea.
Avoid extemporaneous responses to dangerous moments by preparing communication strategies and responses to Chinese nuclear signaling or use ahead of time.
Avoid peacetime training of conventional missions that appear most likely to trigger Chinese nuclear use, such as large-scale cost-imposition, leadership decapitation, or counterforce.
>>

 No.485763

>>485760
The language in these is just amazing.
<Balancing the force survivability
<escalation management
<Build a portfolio of strike force structures

The ability to linguistically trivialize existentially threatening brinkmanship is unparalleled. I wish George Carlin was still alive.

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