/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>489475
Maybe. I think the more likely answer is that they buy into their own bullshit and earnestly think that they've tapped into the spirit of the American public. But still, it is hard to tell with those guys.

>>483941
Why not?
Look at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_East_Is_Red_(song)
>the melody was derived from a local peasant love song from the Loess Plateau entitled "Bai Ma Diao" (《白马调》, White Horse Tune), also known as "Zhima You" (《芝麻油》, Sesame Oil)

>>483943
>>489474
Mao said you should not slight or despise the politically backwards, but befriend them, unite with them, and encourage to go forward.

Furthermore, Sankara said we must never stop explaining, because we know when the people understand, they cannot help but follow us.

>>489491
There's a difference between having solidarity with the politically backwards, and building your entire party platform around appealing to them and only them, especially when, as I said in >>489474, they're in the minority in the US.

I am more than willing to work with someone who has social views that are vastly different from mine (which are socially "centrist"!, for what it's worth), no matter where they sit on the political spectrum. I am not, however, willing to work with people who constantly feel the need to remind me of those views, because it tells me that they value those views more than they do communism for its own sake, and will abandon the cause as soon as they get a better offer.

Beyond that, a lot of what the ACP does, at least to me, looks like people trying to emulate the revolutionary tactics of Lenin and to a lesser extent Mao without understanding the context in which they did what they did. Tsarist Russia was an underdeveloped, largely feudal society, so logically the values of the Russian public prior to the revolution were going to reflect that. The United States, on the other hand, is a highly-developed neoliberal capitalist society, with the social values that come with it instead. Trying to appeal to the hardcore Christian Conservative segment of the population isn't going to get you very far because they aren't the majority here anymore, and have become less and less the majority with each passing decade.

>>489493
>There's a difference between having solidarity with the politically backwards, and building your entire party platform around appealing to them and only them
It's weird then to dismiss the critiques of Marxism-Leninism when Stalin did basically the same exact thing. The history of Marxism-Leninism is the history of opportunist pandering to reactionaries and supporting every anti-American politician and movement ever.

>>489494
>It's weird then to dismiss the critiques of Marxism-Leninism
Where did I do that? I think there's a lot to criticize about Marxism-Leninism. It was, however, overall effective in the specific set of circumstances it was developed for.

>when Stalin did basically the same exact thing
Stalin and friends were, as I said before, working with a very different set of material conditions. Trying to apply the methods developed for what was, in many ways, an extremely backwards feudal nation to arguably the most developed capitalism country on the planet is, frankly, fucking retarded.

>looks it up
<Haz Al-Din
<MAGA communism
<homophobic Duginites
Wow, what a radical alternative to our capitalist order, truly revolutionary frfr.

>>489509
How the fuck are they Duginites?

>>489182
Really conspicuous that this thread will criticize them for anything except this.

>>489182
>>489634
What this is saying (to me) is that Jackson Hinkle is the current owner.
The previous owner was some "B Gerber" but it looks like Hinkle bought it from namecheap, not directly from Gerber.

You have yet to show that B Gerber is the same Ben Gerber from MITRE. It looks like you have an address but there's nothing tying the previous owner to THAT Ben Gerber unless we confirm the address is really his.

But, again, if I buy a domain that used to be owned by feds, it's mine now and I control it. So that's pretty much a win rather than evidence that they're feds.

>>489509
>>489633
This.

I am getting tired of saying that all I hear is UNSUBSTANTIATED slander of them. Show me SOME FUCKING THING to prove your assertion about them them or GTFO.

>>489493
>I am more than willing to work with someone who has social views
but
>Trying to appeal to the hardcore Christian Conservative segment of the population isn't going to get you very far

This seems like a contradiction.

>>489636
>all I hear is UNSUBSTANTIATED slander of them
It's not a slander. They're just conservative multipolarist MAGA communists. Sorry but I'm not interested in conservative multipo|arist MAGA communism, I think it's cringe.

>>489635
It's already been established that it's the same guy. He used the same address to register Acp.US and a site which pointed to his LinkedIn.

>>489638
That's fine. But people are calling them racist and other shit without proof.

>>489640
That is a little weird, ngl. There are possible explanations though, he could have set an alert and bought it as soon as it lapsed.

Have they addressed this before?

>>489644
>>489640
>He used the same address to register Acp.US and a site which pointed to his LinkedIn.
Actually I can't find proof of that beyond a twitter comment asserting this.

>>489643
>But people are calling them racist and other shit without proof.
Kek. Didn't claim they're racist, I'm not a sensitive snowflake.

People should support the ACP because at least it's a stepping stone for rightoids into Left wing politics and working class politics.
Not everyone is going to instantly sign up to some troon infested smashie rainbow hair leftist org, especially the working class right. Parties like the ACP are absolutely needed to present leftist ideas and communism to your average rightoid.

>>489650
>People should support the ACP because at least it's a stepping stone for rightoids
<ACP becomes too popular
<rightoids don't move to a less conservative and class collaborationist party
Uhhhhhhhh… Is that supposed to be a success?

>>489650
>>489652
see >>489649

>>489634
What have leaders said when confronted about this?

>>489634
>Really conspicuous that this thread will criticize them for anything except this.
Well, ideological criticisms are the most immediate. After all, when people see a new party the first thing they check out is their ideology.

>>489652
Yes, because the ACP at least are like 80% good.
I would rather have the ACP power than the Democrats lmao.

To make a case for the ICFI (International Committee of the Fourth International) and the WSWS (World Socialist Web Site) as the most successful socialist project in human history, one must define "success" in terms that go beyond traditional metrics like state power, electoral victories, or armed revolution. Here is a structured argument for that case:

1. Longevity and Continuity of Revolutionary Marxism
Argument:
The ICFI is the only Trotskyist organization that has preserved an unbroken continuity with the Marxist program as developed by Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Trotsky.

Since its founding in 1953, the ICFI has withstood major ideological, political, and historical pressures that splintered or liquidated nearly every other socialist tendency (e.g., Stalinism, Maoism, Eurocommunism).

It maintains the theoretical and political legacy of Trotsky’s Fourth International, resisting both bourgeois nationalism and opportunism.

Impact:
While other socialist projects like the Soviet Union or China abandoned Marxism in practice (and eventually in theory), the ICFI has preserved and developed it. This consistency is a success in the realm of historical and theoretical continuity.

2. Theoretical Clarity and Opposition to Stalinism
Argument:
The ICFI has been the most consistent and accurate critic of Stalinism and its betrayals of world socialism.

It was one of the few currents on the Left to accurately foresee and explain the collapse of the USSR as a restoration of capitalism by the Stalinist bureaucracy—not the failure of socialism per se.

Its analysis of Pabloism (the tendency within Trotskyism that sought alliances with Stalinist and bourgeois nationalist forces) preserved the independent perspective of the working class.

Impact:
Where most “socialist” parties were ideologically disoriented by the fall of the USSR, the ICFI provided an analysis that upheld the Marxist method and explained the degeneration in materialist terms.

3. The WSWS as the Most Comprehensive Marxist Publication in History
Argument:
The World Socialist Web Site, launched in 1998, is arguably the most intellectually rigorous and consistently Marxist news and analysis platform ever created.

It publishes daily in multiple languages and covers not only class struggle, but also culture, history, science, and art from a socialist perspective.

It has achieved a global readership and has become a reference point for workers, intellectuals, and youth seeking an alternative to bourgeois ideology.

During COVID-19, the WSWS played a leading international role in exposing the class interests behind “herd immunity” policies and organizing Global Workers’ Inquiries.

Impact:
It has allowed socialist analysis to reach millions globally without the mediation of bourgeois media, effectively making it the digital center of international socialism in the 21st century.

4. Internationalism in Practice, Not Just Rhetoric
Argument:
The ICFI is not a collection of national parties loosely affiliated, but a single international organization with a unified program and leadership.

Unlike the Second, Third, and even Fourth Internationals in their degenerate phases, the ICFI maintains an international political line across continents.

It opposes all forms of nationalism, including pseudo-left tendencies that support “anti-imperialist” bourgeois regimes (e.g., Baathism, Bolivarianism, etc.).

Impact:
This makes it unique among leftist organizations today, offering the working class a truly international vehicle for political struggle.

5. Defense of Historical Truth and Revolutionary Culture
Argument:
The ICFI and WSWS have undertaken a deliberate and principled defense of historical truth, including:

Opposing the postmodernist and identity-based distortions of class struggle.

Defending the Russian Revolution as the greatest event in human history.

Exposing campaigns like the New York Times’ 1619 Project as ideological tools of the ruling class.

Impact:
In an era of rampant historical revisionism, the WSWS functions as both a political and cultural institution safeguarding the revolutionary heritage of the working class.

Conclusion: Redefining “Success” in Revolutionary Terms
If success is measured not by how many governments have claimed to be socialist, but by the preservation, development, and international dissemination of revolutionary Marxist consciousness, then:

The ICFI and WSWS stand as the most successful socialist project in human history.

Unlike state-based projects that degenerated into bureaucratic dictatorships or capitalist restoration, the ICFI has never held state power but has preserved the means by which the working class can eventually seize it—Marxist theory, internationalism, and political independence.

>>489750
>Opposing the postmodernist and identity-based distortions of class struggle.
Postmodernism isn't identity politics, Deleuze and Guattari were themselves Marxists. Radlibs give postmodernism a bad name, the same way they give Marxism a bad name. Marxists and postmodernists have one struggle against identity politics and radlibs, blaming postmodernists for idpol is just pushing them away for no reason.

>>489750
Much agreed comrade, the growing Rank and Flie Committee movement, despite increasingly desperate denial from the pseudo-left Pabloite revisionist renegades, is striking fear into the hearts of the global imperialist monopoly bourgeoisie. Global capitalism, now more than 80 years into its terminal death agony, can only be transcended through the fulfillment of the objective historical revolutionary role of the class conscious proletariat. The emancipation of the proletariat must be the act of the proletariat itself - under the sole leadership, of course, of the one true world party of socialist revolution, the International Committee of the Fourth International. In their steadfast struggle against all forms of pseudo-left vulgarizations of revolutionary Marxism, David North and the SEP have won the Rank and File proletariat to a genuine Marxist program. The contradictions of global imperialism threaten a Third World War fought with nuclear weapons, and therefore the fate of not just the working class, but the human species itself, depends on resolutely exposing the Pabloites, Grantites, Cliffites, Healyites, Hansenites, Wohlforthites, Mandelites, Steinerites, and all other forms of counter-revolutionary opportunism blocking the path to left unity and planetary proletarian revolution. We urge all workers, youth, and intellectuals stirred by this call to action to unite in Rank and File Committees and to contact the International Committee today.

>>489750
>Exposing campaigns like the New York Times’ 1619 Project as ideological tools of the ruling class.
Wooswoos is always a good source of laughs at fanatical cultists, but they actually did a good job on this one. They exposed a number of absolute frauds and charlatans that most other left journalists/analysts didn't dare to question out of fear.

>>483914
>My dogmatism is better than yours!
As dogmatic as orthodox Marxists can be, at least they don't allow opportunists to pervert Marxist teachings and introduce contrafactual concepts and ideas that promote their bourgeois views. Not all revisionism is warranted. The same way not all interpretations of Stirner are valid, some self-proclaimed Stirnerites actually use Stirner to justify their own spooks. Which is very dishonest.

>>489755
Who's Gerald Horne? Are you saying he's based or an ideological tool of the ruling class?

>>489767
The latter. He's a historian who falsifies history in service of divisive idpol.

>>489755
WSWS Covid take was easily the worst among the entire left but they were based as fuck for ruthlessly shitting on 1619 Project. That said Gerald Horne is a true anti imperialist and never falls for the shitlib trap of "criticizing" Russia and China. Sadly he is a Democratic Party tailist and spreads the moronic notion that Trump's election and Jan 6 was a huge step toward fascism. As if we didn't have fascism for decades and decades.

>>489637
I mean building your entire platform around them, to the exclusion of others. I'm a-ok working with someone who goes to church weekly and hates gays. That's different from going around and saying "hey people who go to church and hate gays, here's the party for you!", because it'll turn off everyone who isn't them. If the ACP was smart, they'd bring on leadership with a wide variety of opinions all across the political spectrum, with their belief in socialism being the unifying factor. Instead, you have the same zoomer trying and failing to be Andrew Tate meets Nick Fuentes ten times.

As an aside, it's important to realize that the ACP is very good at making itself look like it's bigger and doing more than it actually is. The actual membership numbers are out there if you look for them, and they're not particularly impressive, with growth falling off the further you get into 2025.

>>483859
Western left can't accept that the the vast majority of the industrial proletariat, align with "conservative" values, thus any real working class movement, is going to have to deal with that reality, that the majority of the working class, don't like weird woke shit, don't suffer from pathological oikophobia, and actually like masculine, dude, cool stuff that the majority of the left looks down upon. Like for fuck sake, the amount of times I've heard fellow leftists call football "sportsball" in a mocking fashion is fucking unreal.
It's like why people seem to go out of their way to misunderstand the "MAGA communism" name. It's that MAGA is the most revolutionary part of the working class at the moment, so any Socialist movement should be trying to peel them off from reactionary right politics and towards the left.
People on the left LOVE to jerk off over Fred Hampton, but lets be real, when someone actually tries to engage in what Fred Hampton is doing, the entire left goes into meltdown and insane purity tests. There is no fucking way in hell, Fred Hampton wouldn't have been called a Nazbol or Redbrown fascist if he tried to pull what he did today.

>>491162
>Western left can't accept that the the vast majority of the industrial proletariat, align with "conservative" values, thus any real working class movement
This isn't really true in the west.

What is true is that there's a significant contingent like that (it's not the majority in my experience, but it's not a small amount either), and so appealing purely on class politics is objectively the only right way to build socialism - meaning that even though I don't think the majority of the (western!) industrial workers are "conservative" in any meaningful political sense (not interested in nitpicking over what that means beyond the fact that it doesn't mean liking sports or being masculine or consuming specific media), I think that a socialist movement which caters to both ""right wing"" and ""left wing"" social/cultural politics is obviously going to be more successful than a socialist movement which creates barriers for entry around superficially ""left wing"" social politics. The fundamental strength is in class politics, which are not dependent upon any of that other shit. There is room for differing views on things which are not workers' power in the socialist movement, and there is unity and strength in class; among all races, sexes, nations, and cultural attitudes, only the worker and the workers' class interest is paramount.

>>491163
>There is room for differing views on things which are not workers' power in the socialist movement, and there is unity and strength in class; among all races, sexes, nations, and cultural attitudes, only the worker and the workers' class interest is paramount.
While I agree with this, the vast majority of the Western left do not. Entire Idpol and "current thing" topics among the Western left are basically considered axioms, you cannot criticise or touch, no matter what, even if they have no real basis in Materialist politics or Marxism.
Gender ideology is one of them, go against that in most Western leftist spaces and it's the quickest way to be persona-non grata and smeared as some sort of Nazi, or even talking about negative experiences with Lumpenproles, leftists have been smeared for reporting RAPE because a homeless person did it, or just basic gatekeeping against liberal idpol tards and narcissits who want the left to be their own self-help group and every leftist for god knows what reason plays along with this bullshit.
I mean, ffs, the DSA literally started purging it's most experienced members, because the DSA disability group basically went on a power tripping abelism accusation fest against senior members because their little pet issues weren't front and center of DSA. Shortly after that you get the INFAMOUS DSA conference which looked like a parody of Tumblr. Where you couldn't even fucking clap without being "ableist".
>The fundamental strength is in class politics, which are not dependent upon any of that other shit.
100% agree, I've always argued the left should focus on "bread and butter issues", but sadly, for my near 20 years of being part of the organized left, I can pretty honestly say, the vast majority of the Western left, would happily sell off every single material leftist economic demand, if it meant we could codify every batshit xenogender into the law.
This is why I understand the ACP position, it's also why I understood the post-left. The current Western left is absolutely fucked in the head, it's a Shitlib Radical liberal movement that simply cloaks itself in leftist terminology and imagry, while largely just accepting "current thing" as 100% true and anybody who says otherwise is a bad faith reactionary. I mean, look at how the current left has moved onto "what even is woke? Sounds like a made up right wing smear to me! the left never used the term woke" like come the fuck on.

>>491162
>It's that MAGA is the most revolutionary part of the working class at the moment
rofl no, it's the 50% of Americans who despise the political system and both major political parties. You're pandering like a fool to a captured audience.

>>491163
the proletariat *is* conservative and it is conservative because nobody can offer an alternative
they want to defend the *progressive* gains they acquired through their historical struggle and they correctly identify that the "progressives" who wish to destroy that progress are their enemies, they are *conservative* but not "conservative"
people don't know what they want but they do know what they don't want, so give them a project that offers them real progress and they will become real progressives once again

>>491168
Yeah, it's pretty simply if you look at material gains and just the state of our communities, that most ""leftists"" basically want things to become worse in the name of being a good fucking person.
Lumpen homeless crackheads everywhere? Fine! antisocial thirdies who hold completely different values and are pathologically ingroup obsessed? Racist if you don't like this, Rampant shoplifting and crime? ACAB!
>>491165
While I also have my own reservations, it's pretty clear MAGA types are actually active and do shit, and if they were on the left, it would be a massive boon in actually having the left fucking do things. But I do believe also that MAGA types are too brainwashed by "muh sole trader small business owner" grindset to ever accept leftism.

>>491162
>Western left can't accept that the the vast majority of the industrial proletariat, align with "conservative" values
Where are you getting this from?

>It's like why people seem to go out of their way to misunderstand the "MAGA communism" name.
They don't. It's a very stupid name. It's like calling your movement "fascist communism" and then saying
>No, we aren't fascists, we're communists who see that fascists have revolutionary potential and want to convert them to our cause!
They would've been much better off calling it "conservative communism" or something.

>It's that MAGA is the most revolutionary part of the working class at the moment
I disagree, specifically on the working class part. MAGA, as a movement, is very much class-collaborationist. Yeah, there's plenty of coal miners and construction workers at Trump rallies, but there's just as many if not more petite bourgeois "small business owners" there.

>>491168
>the proletariat *is* conservative
Again, where are you getting this from?

>>491185
The core problem with the ACP is that it puts idpol first, which means it's going to attract people who put idpol first, creating a self-perpetuating loop where the party becomes driven more and more by MAGA and less and less by communism. It's the same shit as the DSA, just with a different flavor of idpol.

>>491185
Umm you know that most of these “leftists” you complain about are active in deportation and mass-incarceration?

They also aren’t as sympathetic to troons as you think.
They especially don’t care for ethnics except when they are useful puppets for DEI virtue-messaging.

>>491222
>Again, where are you getting this from?
i want to clarify that i dont agree with the other anons in this thread, whatever their original point might be
there is conservatism, and there is conservatism. there is progressivism, and there is progressivism.
the working class *is* conservative *and* progressive at the same time. but how?
my answer is in the question: conservative in whose eyes? progressive in whose eyes?
i know this might be annoying, but i genuinely want you to think this through for a moment, so please assume im speaking in good faith:
in the past, heterosexuality and the nuclear family were considered progressive, but they are now considered to be regressive. suppose that the working class generally defends these institutions. furthermore, suppose that the working class is *objectively* progressive. how is it possible for those who support a regressive institution to be *objectively* progressive?

>>491222
>The core problem with the ACP is that it puts idpol first
What are we talking about when we talk about idpol? Do you mean the blue haired they/thems that get upset if someone uses the wrong pronouns or something else?

>>491275
That doesn't actually answer the question

>>491278
>Do you mean the blue haired they/thems that get upset if someone uses the wrong pronouns or something else?
Both, kinda.

Haz and friends saw that the Western left had been overtaken by retarded liberal social issues, and instead of concluding
>we need to start a party that makes avoidance of idpol a core value, rejecting anyone that puts social issues above class issues
they instead decided to steep themselves in opposite-side idpol. It's still all about blue haired they/thems, only now it's about how they're le evil degenerates, and we must put all our efforts into combatting them.

It's immensely frustrating to me, because I do think we need to get away from the retarded they/them nonsense. But this is not the way to do it.

>>491309
People are addicted to indignation.
That’s why we have hysteria over “muh troons” or “muh AI” or “muh porn”.

The truth is, people don’t really care much about the subjects they’re seething about.
They just want an excuse to vent their frustration with life. Or add some excitement.

This is why Haz decided to do MAGA communism. It’s a cool new grift to amass profit.

If Haz and Hinkle wanted to amass profit, they would just be right wing grifters.
I find it so interesting that all the glowing as fuck breadtube and CPUSA spend so much time smearing the ACP as being glowies, when we know as literal fact, the CPUSA is a FBI front group and Breadtube is literally funded by the State Department, Foreign Policy Office, Liberal Think Tanks etc.
I don't even like Haz, but the amount of disingenous bullshit around the ACP is just absurd. Like even .orge is now pretending Nazbol/Duginism is actually super serious fascism, when that position would have been laughed out of the room on classic 8ch leftypol as everyone knew that Nazbol/Dugin, even in the original context, was seen as a troll movement against Yeltsin and absurd "Communism is the real Nazism" narrative that Yeltsinite/Post-Communist regimes push.

>>491313
>If Haz and Hinkle wanted to amass profit, they would just be right wing grifters.
Saturated field. They needed a gimmick and this is it.
>I find it so interesting
Nooticing?
>that all the glowing as fuck breadtube and CPUSA spend so much time smearing the ACP
Do they? Most of the talk about them was right when the party started. I basically never see these guys talk about the ACP anymore
>as being glowies
It's not an unreasonable assumption to make when stuff like picrel exists.
>when we know as literal fact, the CPUSA is a FBI front group and Breadtube is literally funded by the State Department, Foreign Policy Office, Liberal Think Tanks etc.
One does not preclude the other. My pet theory is that Hinkle (and only Hinkle, the rest are useful idiots) is a glowop trying to create infighting within the Western left; a divide and conquer strategy.
>I don't even like Haz
Most people don't.

And I think this is the big thing that ACPheads seem to miss. Even when they're shitting on his politics, people don't shit on Haz because of his politics; they shit on him because he's a supremely unlikable person. He acts like Andrew Tate meets Chris Chan. It's fucking obnoxious, and most people reject everything he has to say on that basis alone.

>>491313
>Nazbol/Dugin, even in the original context, was seen as a troll movement against Yeltsin and absurd "Communism is the real Nazism" narrative that Yeltsinite/Post-Communist regimes push.
Source?

>>491313
>Like even .orge is now pretending Nazbol/Duginism is actually super serious fascism, when that position would have been laughed out of the room on classic 8ch leftypol as everyone knew that Nazbol/Dugin, even in the original context, was seen as a troll movement against Yeltsin and absurd "Communism is the real Nazism" narrative that Yeltsinite/Post-Communist regimes push.

I've seen this claimed (specifically on these sites) forever, but National Bolshevism actually originated much earlier. There were unironic National Bolsheviks from the 1930s on, including some weird ones like Lehi after Stern's death. It doesn't seem out of the question that someone could have been legitimately trying to revive it.

Polite sage.

>>491329
Translate their Official FAQ into English, or listen to interviews with the founders.
Nazbol movement was basically a punk anarkiddie movement that adopted "Stalinism", the logo was literally made to troll Yeltsin retards who were going around pushing double genocide bullshit and muh "Totalitarianism". National Bolshevik movement was largely tied to the radical far-left faction of the KPRF as well.
People take what is essentially the old 8chleftypol NAZBOL GANG meme, and actually think it was serious, that is how people react to Dugin and the National Bolshevik movement. Not realizing Dugin is essentially a troll post-modern philosopher more in the style of Zizek, and the National Bolsheviks were born out of Anarkiddie punks so were trying to be provocative.
The Nazbols and Dugin are also fanatically anti-racist and anti-antisemitism, it's actually one of the core planks of their ideology, and they despise White-Nationalism and antisemitism to a extremely absurd degree (with Dugin trolling that if Jewish led white genocide is happening, it's good), which is a strange position to push for so called "fascists".
>>491333
Sure, but the National Bolshevik movement, nor Dugin, has anything really to do with that. They emerged as figures in the 1990s as part of anti-United Russia/Yeltsin front. In Russia, Dugin and the National Bolsheviks are seen as radically far-left.
That said, Dugin nor the NazBol movement has anything really to do with the ACP. They are influential on Haz and Hinkle, but they don't set the party agenda, there is nothing "Fascist" in the ACP policy or party positions and it's pretty clear the ACP is more based on the Post-Mao CPC.