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 No.3271[View All]

Thread for discussing ATLA and LoK or rather analyzing both, appreciating the effort of creating the former and shitting on the lazy liberalism of the latter
224 posts and 109 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.


so technically speaking, chiefdom seems hereditary, sokka and katara would be south water tribe royals, toph was still born to nobles, zuko never dropped his title, I'm not criticising the show, and most was a hyperbole, but it's still funny when you think about it


True, I'm just pointing out that there are caveats to it. And besides, fantasy tends to go for monarchic states.


Who are you specifically replying to? We're just having discussion m8.


Toph's parents appear to be wealthy merchants not nobles. The Southern Water Tribe seems to have a primitive/clan structure. By the time of Korra they have changed, but by all appearances in ATLA the Southerners are very egalitarian and the role of chief is probably more like being military thing. Hakoda leads the war party and doesn't seem to wield any other kind of power in contrast to how things are up north. Sokka even remarks how Yue wouldn't be interested in him because he's a "peasant." Azula refers to him and Katara as peasants too.

Zuko is the one actual example of nobility, but he's a sort of class traitor who's primarily concerned with stopping an imperialist war machine, so he probably should get a pass.

All bets are off with Korra though.


ATLA does a god job of representing a variety of political systems though. And it's openly pretty critical of the hierarchical ones. The northern water tribe is socially backward. Earth Kingdoms are full of corruption. The Fire Nation is doing genocide and colonialism. The societies that aren't portrayed with glaring flaws are the most egalitarian or non-hierarchical ones.
>Southern Water Tribe
>Air Nomads
>Kyoshi Island
>Foggy Swamp Tribe
>random earth kingdom villages


so is atla anarcho-pilled


None of them are explicitly or implicitly anarchist, just that they appear to be fairly egalitarian and whatever hierarchy exists is not prominently displayed. Given the Zaheer plot it's probably safe to say if there's an anarcho tendency in the show it's accidental.


Why is it always about the anarchsits for you peeps?


In the episode where they go to Ba Sing Se, Toph's family name was enough to get her to a party with the Earth King, as she was recognized as a noble in status.
>All bets are off with Korra


I checked the wiki and you are correct. The Beifongs are nobility, although apparently they are bankers which suggests maybe they got there from accumulating wealth as merchants. I remember the show always emphasized their wealth more than any political authority so that's why I didn't think they were nobles. Pretty dumb in retrospect since the flying boar is established as their house sigil.


it's a joke, atla doesn't like things being too heirarchical, anarchists don't like hierarchy, thus atla = anarchist


is korra a noble?


Her dad Tonraq is chief of the Southern Water Tribe but it's ambiguous if this position involves a separate class from normal people. It didn't appear to with Katara and Sokka being described as peasants even though their dad Hakoda was chief. Even Hakoda seemed to be chief as a function of being a good leader vs having any official authority. Nobody treats Korra like nobility that I can recall other than maybe Unalaq as a ploy. Tonraq was nobility in the North (first son of the Chief and heir to the title) but he was disgraced and banished. Considering that he became Chief in the South as an immigrant banished from the north implies the southerners don't care about class or even citizenship.

IIRC some characters referred to Hakoda specifically as "war chief" which in some cultures that inspired the Water Tribes is not so much the leader of the tribe as a whole but a position relevant only to battle. Sometimes there is no actual chief (maybe some elders who are respected), and sometimes there's a separate authority figure who handles internal affairs. There's a lot of variation here. I don't think Hakoda ever acts in a regular political capacity in the South but Tonraq consults with other members of the tribe to decide policy. I think it's only relevant to the civil war though.

Her being Avatar is probably more significant since everyone respects the position.


So Kuvira is a left social-nationalist? Like the Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party (Syria branch), PSUV (Venezuela), ZANU-PF (Zimbabwe), FSLN (Nicaragua) etc?


Kuvira explicltly does ethnic cleansing, do any of the parties you mentioned also do ethnic cleansing?


>Kuvira explicltly does ethnic cleansing
Wait what? Who did she genocide? I watched Korra a long while ago


No, she isn't. There isn't a single actual scene of her going through with "Ethnic Cleansing" or any other such rubbish. It was a claim made by her direct opponents (Suyin Bei Fong and her cronies).


Roughly speaking yes, though in many ways I'd also place it as similar to the USSR, which is what is argued in prior Kuvira posts >>2889 >>2888


On the topic of metal bending and the Suyin fight:
This demonstrates that Kuvira can turn metal into sharp blades, which could potentially allow for the possibility of liquification of metal.
To liquefy metal the bender will have to a lavabender as well. Metals melting points can go to extreme degrees. A bender needs to move the molecules in particles in the metal at ridiculous speeds.
The second way would be the Yun method of liquefying earth.



Korra's character arc is basically that she is complete shit at being the avatar because everything about her personality and skills are completely wrong for it. IDK what the the fuck they thought they were doing with this other than sUbVeRtiNg eXpEcTaTiOnS. Aang was good at being avatar so Korra has to suck or something.

But then instead of trying to git gud at her job she just does her own thing and instead of restoring balance she completely changes several things.
>merges physical and spirit world
>restores airbending
>leads to reformation of Earth Kingdom into Earth Democracy or something
>creates a third spirit portal (to where though? didn't the spirit world merge with the physical world?)


Remember the Zaheer plot didn't have Ehasz so that can explain a big shift in how things are presented.

As this guy thorough explains that Brian and Michael don't understand political ideologies which makes me thinking Ehasz was the one keeping everything together in atla.




>As this guy thorough explains that Brian and Michael don't understand political ideologies which makes me thinking Ehasz was the one keeping everything together in atla.
Good point. Maybe Ehasz also had the wisdom to not make the show so overtly about politics the way Korra fumbled with.


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one of the fun facts about Avatar TLA is that Azula is actually like fucking 13 in the show, which is funny because I think most of the other people who watched the show thought that she was Zuko's older sister. I am p sure that was kinda deliberate, coupled with Azula's personality disorders and the like she has been groomed to really try and break herself down and build herself up into whatever position needs filling in the royal family, and in Zuko's absence she became the heir apparent to the fire lord's throne and tries to be fairly adult even though she is still a child, and fairly obviously one at that when you realize a lot of her immaturity. hell, her intro is literally her telling her crew under her command to ignore the tides despite the fact it poses a very direct danger to her as much as her own men, something that she doesn't really register, saying instead that her crew should "fear me more than the tides", but does she think the fucking tides fear her??? She also demonstrates hilarious impatience, even at minor imperfection, and generally lacks emotional stability, though she knowingly compensates this by trying to emotionally manipulate others. Though you can argue these things can be as much personality disorders as they can be from being an unexperienced child, in reality I think a big message the show is giving off is that even though Azula was the homeborn prodigy, gifted at birth and schooled within the institutions of the fire nation to produce a wholly insular view of perfection, Zuko in contrast learns from the land and the different people and cultures he meets, creating a more wholistic and complete understanding of the world, and in turn firebending's place within it, and in turn elevates himself from a naturally lackluster firebender into one that can demonstrably defeat Azula.

Its showing that Zuko's emotional maturity and experience is what allowed him to elevate his own powers, that understanding of the world gave him the depth of experience that allowed for him to improve his own skills, rather than azula who spent her time only honing the skills she already mastered, and in turn really never improving much beyond her natural talents. Immaturity - the rejection of outside lessons and ideas in favor of insular and self-centered understanding of the world, was what made her stagnate while her lame duck brother rose above her, and she could never really accept that fact - she had always prided herself on that natural talent, cherished it like it was a birthrite and mandate, and saw it as the means and really an ends to building her own power. But, that immaturity was not something that would outwardly help her, so she did a lot to cover it up, makeup and big worded speeches and acting authoritatively even in conditions she didn't really understand, like when she commanded her fucking boat to go against the tides, which is of course a child's approximation of what maturity was.

But Azula wasn't like, totally without redeeming moments. Though she is a frigid fucking bitch, I think at the end of the day she still had a lot of value built up in Zuko, in the same capacity as Zuko was a way for her to build up her self-esteem for her natural talents, but also that Zuko was the only real link between her and her mother (mind, Azula thought her mother hated her because she tried to emulate her father more, and he was a cruel asshole that her mom was always disapproving of, but she was especially disapproving when Azula tried to copy him), Zuko was a kind of surrogate maternal care to her since Zuko did take more from her mom in being compassionate and caring for the people around and under him (even going out of his way and nearly risking his own life to save one of his crewmen even if it meant the Avatar escaping), which would extent to Azula, while not being as immensely disapproving of Azula's actions as her own mother was (Zuko even tries to emulate Azula a little bit sometimes).

This is why I like that specific scene from the show - its like the literal only time I think Azula is ever seen without her makeup. It was a scene where Azula, normally a fucking frigid bag of dicks, talks to Zuko about the political danger of meeting with Iroh in jail - something that, if she instead exposed to everyone else, would gain her much in the way of power since it would delegitimize Zuko - but instead she warns him, without any makeup, any façade of being an adult. I think to Azula, Zuko was pretty much the only person she could be comfortable with being around without having the big show of being the adult woman preparing to be the queen, though by this point she probably has a case of wearing the mask so much that it was becoming her face, and that the facade was slowly poisoning her own personality. But, still, its like the only real moment where there is a willing vulnerability shown by Azula.

And like, you have to really think about the dynamic of the moment, the actions of Azula relative to what she usually says and does and appears, how her family live would relate to her personal growth, and a bunch of other stuff to kinda realize it. Its a subtle way to convey a lot of depth about an entirely fictional character that shows a lot of implied character development without needing to cut away to a flashback - and its not actually even in service to the story or anything, its all just a really neat background detail you can pick out if you make those connections.


also the fire lord after zuko was a fire mommy milf change my mind


How the fuck is azula 13? She looks 20.


Being insane can age you a lot. Or so I’ve heard.


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>I think most of the other people who watched the show thought that she was Zuko's older sister
This is the first time I am learning this isn't true. According to the wiki Zuko was 16 and Azula 14 at the time of A:TLA.
>she had always prided herself on that natural talent, cherished it like it was a birthrite and mandate
This is actually a really interesting parallel between the whole divine right ideology and present day "gifted" kids who tend to have the same kind of problem.

>This is why I like that specific scene from the show - its like the literal only time I think Azula is ever seen without her makeup.

I think you're right, and it's funny how jarring it is. It's also not just about her being adult or being vulnerable - the lack of makeup makes her look more like Zuko too. The show's relationship with makeup is actually pretty interesting. It comes up multiple times, sometimes explicitly, like in Tales of Ba Sing Se when Katara and Toph get a makeover. The other cool example was from early in book 1 where we have a parallel between the Kyoshi makeup and the water tribe makeup highlighting the pretty arbitrary difference between masculine and feminine signifiers. It also establishes makeup as a motif associated with power.


Emotionally maybe, but it doesn't cause puberty to happen faster. I have known 14 year olds (male and female) who looked like adults though so it's not that unusual. Also IIRC people matured faster in the old days.


>sexualizing minors
Kill yourselves, degenerates.


no, is ok, cuties proved that CP is legal now


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>the lack of makeup makes her look more like Zuko too
Speaking of, it's fairly obvious, however the whole inability to groom herself properly prior to her Coronation as Fire Lord and the subsequent face off with Zuko was fairly symbolic of how she was deranged and losing control (pic related).
Also I keep forgetting she was so young. I thought she was Zukos age and keep forgetting she's not.


Nice effort post
>does she think the fucking tides fear her?
This made me laugh. Also related to pic 2 from >>9149
>only time I think Azula is ever seen without her makeup
Yeah this and some other smaller moments where she shows hurt feelings (for a moment) really demonstrate her humanity


Top kek


I mean we saw that idea already >>2811
Also Izumi sounds REALLY Japanese a name. It's a few letters away from Izanami or Izanagi or Izuku
Already posted >>4949


Another example of the makeup motif is the painted lady.


>the whole inability to groom herself properly prior to her Coronation as Fire Lord and the subsequent face off with Zuko was fairly symbolic of how she was deranged and losing control (pic related).
It also makes logical sense because as a princess she had attendants to groom her (as we see when she fires them out of paranoia). It works both symbolically and literally as a case of reality ensuing. I think the people who say it's a cheesy part of her breakdown are unable to relate to her as a noble who's not used to doing these things for herself.


>According to the wiki Zuko was 16 and Azula 14
cut me some slack I was one year off lmao


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>>10363 (me)
something I also thought was cool was how the show not only had Aang experience the four elements in relation to being the Avatar, but also had the co-protagonist Zuko experience the four elements in much the same way. obviously in the capacity in which he is chasing Aang who, bar the first season, spends most of his time trying to figure out how to do the bending of that element in the respective lands of said element, but also in more interpersonal relationships he forms throughout the show, and through the places he goes. Of course he fights with, beats, occasionally gets humbled by, befriends, betrays, and then reconnects and makes up for it with Katara, which is a subplot of the show with so much nuance you could really make up its own effort post on it, but also through interactions he has with the Northern Water tribe and his actions in contrast to Zhao (though granted, pretty much guided by Iroh) where he learns a lot about the spiritual aspects of balance in the world and even shows fairly unexpected mercy in trying to save Zhao, who had done nothing but fuck him over and attempt to kill him and his own crew. Of course he expands on this learning in chapter 2 more when they are on the run, and Iroh tries to expand on the necessity for not only inner balance, but the importance of understanding other elements in order to bend your own element well in lightning-bending. Lightning-bending is not something that is strictly inherent to fire-bending, at least to the cultural conception of it by the fire nation. It instead relies on a personal balance of the self and fluid movements of the body to channel things which is much more in the vein of waterbending - literally showing the ability to take the aspects of another culture (arguably two since the N and S water tribes are hella different but thats a digression) and translate those principles into something usable in fire-bending. Of course season 2 is also where Zuko learns a fuckload about earthbending. "But anon", I hear you shout, "Zuko doesn't fuck around with earthbenders much!" And you are partially right in that, but mind something Toph remarks to Aang early on during his training. How earthbending is reliant largely on stance and stability, using those as the basis for your form to move and shape the earth. And, of course, season 2 Zuko is on the run as a fugitive of the fire nation, he cannot firebend. So what does he primarily use to fight? Dual sabers, and of course sabers rely on a form of martial artistry which focuses around stability and stance as the basis for a fluid form of attacking. So, he experiences much the same principles of Earthbending through his use of swords, all while also being in the Earth kingdom itself. And of course he has a relationship with Jin, lives a long while in Ba Sing Se, generally absorbs the culture and how the fire nation's war has changed society for them, so on. Though its nothing as apparent as lightning-redirecting powers, I would say that both the principles of earthbending he kinda learned through swordsmanship and the cultural learning he had from the Earth Kingdom was pivotal in reshaping his idea of not only firebending, but also the fire nation's place in the world as a power. And, of course, airbending came in when he became the fire-mentor for Aang and the show is even more direct about that aspect than the fucking lightning redirection so I'll not waste your time with the specifics of that.

That ultimately is what I meant by Zuko learning and growing from his experiences and giving his firebending the strength that finally outplayed Azula. While he likely did just become a better firebender overall through constant practice, he as well learned different ways to apply firebending through the inspection of other elements and how they functioned to form a more holistic understanding of the elements.


You guise make Avatar sound so cool and interesting but all I remember when watching some episodes was teen melodrama and fairly average action scenes where no one ever gets hurt or dies.


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Not just Zuko and Aang either. Katara and Sokka learn from the different elements and nations. Obviously with Sokka it's non-bending but he picks up fighting styles and technology from all over the place. Katara ends up borrowing principles from other bending styles too, see pics.

The kids being so high level makes more sense than people realize, because like he avatar they combine and synthesize the bending styles and can use techniques that nobody else would imagine. Almost all of the people in the setting are insular enough that they only know their own style and the style of the people they're usually fighting. Meanwhile Aang usually stomps even with just air because nobody alive (except Bumi) has even seen an airbender much less fought one. It's fairly subtle but a clear argument in favor of cultural exchange.


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All the choreography was meticulously based on actual martial arts forms and animated beautifully without excessive (or lack) of detail. The characters behaved like real people.
>no one ever gets hurt
Physically yeah, little hurt outside of Katara's hand-burns, Zuko's facial scarring and Aang's back scar from lightning (and Jet's offscreen death).
This is because it was a kids cartoon and thus was PG. I agree some Naruto-tier blood and burns would probably have helped in impact, but that's not a necessity for it to be impactful.


In a way Iroh is essentially an Avatar without the ability to use the other 3 elements (pic related). While Aang is functionally the Avatar and learns each bending style, Iroh embodies the spirit and concept of the Avatar with his statements about balance


Another good point about the Make-up, nice.


>fairly subtle but a clear argument in favor of cultural exchange
This reminds me of one dude on twitter who pointed out that 'Cultural Appropriation' was largely stupid because Culture was meant to be shared with people.


>'Cultural Appropriation' was largely stupid because Culture was meant to be shared with people.
It depends. One of the comics actually addresses the topic when other people start copying Aang's tattoos and he's offended. In the actual show you see this a bit when the Mechanist is damaging the air temple. Aang's happy to share air nomad culture in general, like the ideas, food and temples, but he's also protective of his culture being diluted or damaged.


IDK what to think about Bryke departing the Netflix reboot. I expect the Netflix version to be dogshit for various reasons, but given how Korra went I wonder if it's for better or worse that they left the project.


This isn't 8chan. The whole site is left wing. There's no place to put a retarded /pol/ colony.


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>There's no place to put a retarded /pol/ colony
Let me repeat: I am the OP of this thread and have contributed ~25 posts in this thread, of which the majority have been large, effort/discussion posts. Nowhere in this thread do you see "hurr muh jewish Bryke lol" or other rubbish.

I AM NOT /pol/ nor have I ever been. E;R may be a /pol/fag and do some dumb jew jokes, but none of it is ever unironic. It's all memes that are never taken seriously, and the fact that people are still mad over it is pathetic, when his commentary on the series is accurate and fairly decent.

/hobby/ is a board where politics are second-fiddle to media and its discussion. That's why we can have hot takes like "Palapatine is 'le epic comrade'" because everyone except brainless prudes understand that we're not serious about it, and that its just chatting about a character and some interesting thoughts. Nobody here thinks of this stuff unironically. Nobody is using Harry Potter or LOTR or Star Wars in utter real political context. FFS a major discussion in this thread is that Korra attempts to insert Real World Politics into a show with utterly different societal development, but I digress.

E;R has never made an unironic 'le jew conspiracy' post in his videos. His closest are semi-sarcastic parts about how Rebecca Sugar and JJ Abrams are jews but he never expands on this and it is such a fleeting moment as to be less than 1% of the content in his reviews.

So cool your jets, put aside your ideological fervor and just enjoy something for what it is; stop taking things seriously.

Finally, for the record, the community (/leftypol/) makes plenty of politically incorrect jokes, including about jews and minorities (you only have to look at the 'uighur' wordfilter as an example). We aren't reddit nor should be. You are more than welcome to sit around with your nose in the air and feel super ideological pure, but keep it to yourself or at least make actually legitimate arguments and not dismissive non-arguments like "muh E;R, ignored!!!"
>inb4 'others have said the same without le /pol/'
Other than Lily Orchard, NOBODY - at the time of posting the video links in the first posts - had made the same extensive breakdown of Korra than E;R. Everyone else was busy doubling back on themselves every 5 minutes to keep rabid fangirls from reeeing in the comments about "how dare you insult 'yas queen slay' Korra". Some other people have made good analyses of Korra since the post was made, but they were not available at the time of posting, or were unknown.

Rant End, now lets NOT argue more about pointless bullshit and post links from ~9 months ago.


You make a good point.
>when other people start copying Aang's tattoos and he's offended
which is A) Why I said "largely" stupid
and B) a bit out of character. Aang, over the series really matured even while retaining his pacifism. He would be more likely to go and explain the full meaning of the markings and why it isn't a good idea to wear them while not a full Air Nomad monk, than get mad over it.
>the Mechanist is damaging the air temple
True, but they do it much better than the comics, by demonstrating that while he appreciated their designs and culture, they were, as far as known, extinct and the refugees that made up his group needed improved living and that meant sacrificing some art. It was happenstance that Aang survived and arrived there during construction. In a way it is similar to how the USSR sometimes tore down historical buildings like churches to make way for homes and better city planning.


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Reposting a hot take.

There is no way that Avatar ends without some sort of Hyper-Nationalist army revolt against Zuko (Like Fire nation Yukio Mishima trying to shoot Zuko or something) or some massive genocide occurring in the mixed race / Mongrelfied section of the earth kingdom fated to become "The republic" led by Earth Kingdom nationalist feeling betrayed by their own government and I don't give a fuck what the comics say.

Imagine your just some fire nation grunt or even something slightly higher up like a colonel or general. After a literal 100 years war you have finally won and created your world spanning empire but literally a month later as your celebrating your victory the firelord basically dies offscreen and his totally pussywhipped and cucked son becomes firelord, Immediately gives away all of your victories and literally abandons a section of your population to probably be killed by the nation you have just beaten in fair combat in every measure.

Zuko is getting stabbed to death or poisoned by his palace guards and / or his body being thrown into a river by an angry mob

Now imagine your a earth kingdom citizen maybe some farmer displaced by the fire nation immigrants, Someone who was being worked to death in one of their prison factories, Someone whose whole village got burnt down. Now imagine learning after you supposedly "win" the war that you have now consigned a section of your country to continue being ruled by the fire nation settlers (It does not fucking matter what Aang and Zuko call it, that's all that 99% of earth kingdom citizens view it as) and the fire nation will not have to pay ANY dues for what they did, your King and the "hero" the avatar is totally compliant with this.

The earth kingdom is having Heavenly kingdom tier genocidal civil war


you give the comics too little credit, the fire nation and earth kingdom very nearly go into war v2 over the conquered territories of the earth kingdom, zuko over protecting both his people and the inter-racial children who developed a fire nation identity and the earth kingdom over their lost land. its basically only avoided by becoming a dual administrative region with some regional determination which eventually evolves into the republic city we see in korra.


I remember there being a post on some website where E;R claimed the best way to convert normalfags to being a neonazi is to just make jokes and then at some point drop your jokes or some shit.
I wonder how well that actually goes though.


>E;R may be a /pol/fag and do some dumb jew jokes, but none of it is ever unironic.
I invoke death of the author tbh.


Probably the biggest hurdle for neonazis to cross is desensitizing people to the idea and memes do that pretty alright I guess.


Honestly the Fire Nation wasn't developed well enough to say how things would go. It didn't seem like any of the soldiers were particularly motivated by hate or some other animus. The war had been going on for almost all living memory, so it's not a stretch that the common people or military would be ok with the war ending. I mean, all of them had grown up counting war casualties.
>the fire nation will not have to pay ANY dues for what they did, your King and the "hero" the avatar is totally compliant with this.
They don't get into the terms of surrender or anything like that because the show isn't about the mechanics of power that way.


alright so question, why would the fire nation develop faster than any other nation, from a materialist standpoint? they are a volcanic island nation which historically means that they would have less landmass for food production which means a weaker division of labor, they are isolated from the mainland so they get less in the way of technological innovation from overseas, and their disjointed islands setup would mean they also have less technological spread even in their own country.

from a bending perspective, fire and air bending are the 2 most available, since you can do either in nearly any environment, unlike earth or water which needs raw material around to do so. however, water-bending could easily be used to create powerful water turbines which could generate power and allow for a theoretical water tribe industrial revolution, and earthbending has the ability to track and unearth great quantities of ore and coal to process manually as well as the ability to basically mass-produce housing even pre-industrialy. between all of them I would frankly expect the earth kingdom to be the first to reach the industrial revolution because they could most easily modify the land to create conditions where food could be produced plentifully enough that they could build up a strong division of labor, and from there rush towards an industrial revolution without bending.


some good takes from Tumblr

> the atla fandom is such a good study of the effectiveness of imperialist propaganda in that so many fans have completely internalized the idea that air nomad culture is hippy dippy weakness that would actually have no real substantive place in the avatarverse, and you can see this in the number of post-finale fics (well written, amazingly intricate, incredibly well plotted fics!) intent on teaching aang a lesson about the futility of pacificism or cutting him down to size after his victory against ozai, driven by a belief that aang somehow had it easy or that his choices were childish and unrealistic. the idea that serious commitment to a buddhist-inspired philosophy could influence a hero’s actions is so far beyond the grasp of so many fans that you can sense their downright anger, even outrage, that such a philosophy was upheld as worth defending! the idea that aang as a hero was making deeply spiritual choices about how to end the war - and thereby upholding his duty as the the spiritual guide to the world - and that he deemed air nomad religious values worth upholding against the might of an imperialist nation, just completely eludes so many people. because it’s not flashy and badass and powerful i guess? idk idk idk but some of y’all are soooooo invested in loving the fire nation and discounting aang/ the air nomads in specific insidious ways and it’s…whew. frustrating, predicable, kinda scary.


> Yeah It’d be great if people in general could learn the difference between being weak and being pacifistic.

> A weak person physically can’t harm anyone. A pacifist can harm you but chooses not to. Aang almost killed Ozai in the Avatar State but he didn’t, not because he was too weak to kill Ozai (he was literally just about to do so) but because he felt it wasn’t the right thing to do.

> Aang isn’t the only one to do this. Zuko could have killed Ozai during the eclipse if he’d aimed his lightning at his father instead of away. Katara did it with Yon Rha where she had the perfect opportunity to kill her mother’s murderer but didn’t.

> Why does Aang get all the flack for doing the same? Because his reasoning was different?

> Some people are a bit too invested in a 12 year old murdering someone.


>why would the fire nation develop faster than any other nation, from a materialist standpoint?
Power, like in the physical sense. They can create fire out of thin air, which means they are able to heat things up more effectively. It's the same kind of benefit as having oil. Other benders can only move things around. Firebenders can create energy. They're insanely OP in that respect, even though fire has other limitations that make up for it in most (small scale contexts). Fire can't be used to build anything, and it just doesn't work underwater (unlike airbending which can make bubbles) or if it's too cold for the bender. It's also dangerous in ways that the others aren't. IMO the show did a great job making the elements balanced in a general sense but also giving them massive strengths and weaknesses that shape the whole society.

>water-bending could easily be used to create powerful water turbines

Problem is this is both unintuitive and inefficient. You need people to continuously power these turbines, when in reality you only set up such a thing at a natural source of water. They might be able to reshape rivers to this end, but just having people run the turbines is the same kind of thing as generating power by people riding bicycles. Also for it to scale at all you need to discover electricity.
>and earthbending has the ability to track and unearth great quantities of ore and coal
Only Toph is shown at first to have the tremorsense abilities, although earthbending obviously makes mining easier. Just because you have the resources doesn't mean you have the technology to work them, though. Prior to the development of ironworking, iron was not seen as particularly useful. It's too hard to work without sufficient heat, and usually full of impurities. Without the ability to metalbend, it's probably just not worth the effort for an earthbending culture to figure out advanced metallurgy since they can just send earthbenders into combat, and their "weapon" is just sitting around everywhere. It's sort of like mining asteroids to us. Sure it's possible in theory and it would be very useful, but the difficulty of it compared to the much easier alternatives means there's little incentive to try it.
>as well as the ability to basically mass-produce housing even pre-industrialy.
Waterbenders can also produce housing in the snow. Earthbenders being able to build things works as an explanation for why they are the largest and most populous nation (and it would help for digging canals for irrigation), but this doesn't get you far if your tech level is still pre-industrial and your economy is mostly subsistence agriculture.
>between all of them I would frankly expect the earth kingdom to be the first to reach the industrial revolution because they could most easily modify the land to create conditions where food could be produced plentifully enough that they could build up a strong division of labor
But why bother dividing labor if you can just keep expanding and finding new land to use and keep building houses perpetually? Based on what we see in the series, most of the land is wild. That means the Earth Kingdoms can just keep growing and following the same economic and political model. Given that they seem to be a bunch of mostly independent kingdoms loosely connected culturally, there's nothing pushing them to adapt to urbanization and a higher population density. The exception is Ba Sing Se, and they are relatively advanced. But they also seem to be fully self-sufficient and not engage in very much trade. As we see when the Gaang first arrives, the concentric rings show the division of labor, but because of the isolation (and perceived safety from the Fire Nation) there's nothing pressuring them to advance. The walls if anything provide a security that means they have less material reason to develop weapons technology. The kind of bureaucratic palace economy they have seems to involve less free trading (actually demonstrated in-show when the Cabbage Merchant has his cart smashed at customs), which also means that it's harder for the merchant class to emerge as a power and drive industrialization.


>not flashy and badass and powerful i guess?
It's definitely not that lol. They go out of their way to make Aang's spirituality flashy and badass and powerful. This author is making it about imperialism which isn't wrong but that's not the whole picture. Aang's views (and most of the show) is very obviously inspired by eastern philosophy and Buddhism, and the primary audience in the west are either actual Christians or at least have their worldview massively shaped by Christian values and philosophy, which is extremely incompatible with the kind of ideas in the show. Most of the audience grew up believing in the importance of cosmic hierarchies and military power. The Fire Nation is BY FAR the most familiar to western (US especially) audiences. And not just with their political structure and the obvious pledge of allegiance gag, but the whole premise of the war. Not just the fact that it's imperialism, but the justification given too - Sozin pitches the war to Roku as a very on the nose combination of manifest destiny and Bush-era nation building. He all but says they're going to "spread freedom." Paraphrasing, he said it's the Fire Nation's destiny to share their greatness with the rest of the world. On a subconscious level, the primary audience of the show has been primed to see the Fire Nation as sympathetic.
> Why does Aang get all the flack for doing the same? Because his reasoning was different?
IDK maybe it has something to do with the fact that Aang actually stuck to his principles from the start and all the others not killing was a choice they made in the moment. Zuko wasn't sure what he was going to do with Ozai and Katara was fully intending to merc Yon Rha. They both decided against it in the middle of a potentially killing blow. Aang was never going to do it, so him pulling back doesn't sUbVeRt ExPeCTaTiOnS and narratively it's kind of blue-balling or something.


I explained why there is focus on killing by Aang in my posts about the Lion Turtle Deus Ex Machina; They specifically focus on his dilemma of violating his principles of pacifism, and then just give him the ability to make a choice with an asspulled new ability, which isn't something uncommon, but still feels like a bit of a cop-out. This is in the same tier as Goku going Super Saiyan against Frieza, except unlike Energy Bending, that was talked about at length over the Namek Arc, while Energy Bending isn't even mentioned until the final couple episodes, thus we get a feeling of a copout >>2756 >>2810 >>2816 >>2817 >>2822

Additionally, his Avatar State against Ozai was an accidental unlock. A literal plot-device rock hit him in his lightning scar… why didn't toph's massage do that when she pounded his entire back with rocks? Plot. Why was the rock specifically in that spot to hit him? Plot. It's a bullshit move for an otherwise awesome scene.

Finally there is a saying; Pacifism is a coward patting themselves on the back.
It's one thing to be against violence or harm and thus seeking other methods, that is being a gentle soul. But outright refusing to fight seriously and be ready to kill because you're against it and refuse to budge is pathetic negligence. Making the hard decisions and dealing with them is the consequence of having power and leadership, and if you don't you are jeopardizing the lives of everyone behind you.


here is a decent video about the ending of avatar


I guess we might see a resurgence of Avatar stuff with the netflix release of the series


> Aang was never going to do it, so him pulling back doesn't sUbVeRt ExPeCTaTiOnS and narratively it's kind of blue-balling or something.
How so?
I actually like the way they did Aang’s ultimate refusal to kill Ozai, it reminded me of Luke’s refusal to kill Vader. Both flew into a blind rage and nearly killed the opponent, however they both realized before the final blow that killing really is a choice and each choose not to. Both Luke and Aang are told to follow a destiny but chose their own instead. I like how it goes down with Aang somewhat more, honestly, since the Avatar State actually DOES mind control people and thus Aang’s refusal to kill had to be strong enough to overpower the combined wills of all avatars that came before him.


Guess we are going to see a resurgence in Avatar.
<Nickelodeon is launching Avatar Studios, a new division to create original content spanning animated series and movies based on the world of Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra, the network announced Wednesday during ViacomCBS' Investor Day presentation. Original creators and executive producers Michael DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko will lead the studio as co-chief creative officers.
<The first project is already lined up: an animated theatrical film set to begin production this year.
Nick must have been seeing those Netflix numbers and realized what they were sitting on.


yeah, you really should /get/out


File: 1628434719041.png ( 64.42 KB , 858x342 , h.png )

>Lily Orchard
isn't that the person who made horsecock fan-fic

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