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File: 1608525657722.jpg ( 144.41 KB , 824x1334 , start to finish.jpg )

 No.3271[Last 50 Posts]

Thread for discussing ATLA and LoK or rather analyzing both, appreciating the effort of creating the former and shitting on the lazy liberalism of the latter


Both shit liberal series.


File: 1608525657877-0.jpg ( 394.57 KB , 1366x768 , brave soldier boy.jpg )

Reposting some stuff about Leaves from the Vine

People always talk about Leaves From the Vine in a sad context since the scene it is in is truly sad. But I think that when Iroh sings it to the little boy crying is a lot more insightful. The song is clearly a lullaby and obviously brings joy to the boy, and has pleasant intentions. It is only sad when you interpret the song as the loss of a loved one. But if you take it literally, then its a song about someone beaten and weak from war finally coming home to those they love, and those who waited being proud of their soldier. I think Iroh used to sing it to Lu Ten on his birthday, reminding him of the fragility that humans have, and how important it is to appreciate them coming home. That it is a proud and happy day to see them walking back after being gone. I think it used to be a happy song that is sad now. I like that hopeful interpretation as much as the sad one.

>Leaves from the vine, falling so slow. Like tiny fragile shells drifting in the foam

A verse about the nature of the soldier boy, as beautiful and graceful as a falling leaf in the fall. Yet still fragile enough to drift in the currents of the sea, young enough to be molded.
>Little soldier boy, come marching home. Brave soldier boy, come marching home
This verse is meant to signify longing and want, pleading the soldier boy to return home. But when combined with the first verse it feels somewhat darker. Brave would be a word used to describe a fallen soldier, one who was young and helpless when he was taken to war. The song to me is the longing of a parent begging their fallen son to return home, knowing they would never see them again.

Still, from what we can see the song is not a mourning song, but an honor song; sung to honor those who fight for what they believe in, celebrating their return after fighting for their cause whether they walk on their own two feet or are carried back home to rest.

It really reminds of a similar Armenian Lullaby my father sang in my childhood, the only decent version I could find was here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw-BLCZgMQ4

It also has similar tone and implications as the famous Soviet war song written by Bulat Okujava Бери Шинель, Пошли Домой which is famously associated with the film Аты Баты, Шли Солдаты, which is about a platoon of soldiers who died maintaining their positions and halting/destroying an advance of German tanks.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StAfJ7qUqu4
- https://lyricstranslate.com/en/beri-shinell-poshli-domoy%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8-%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%88%D0%BB%D0%B8-%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B9-grab-your-trenchcoat.html

As a side note someone wrote an interesting addition to the lyrics of Leaves From the Vine:
Little soldier boy
Taken from home
Forced to fight a war
That is not his own.
Little soldier boy
Thought that he could soar
Brave soldier boy
Died in their war


File: 1608525675862.jpg ( 57.9 KB , 720x720 , Deus Ex Turtle.jpg )

E;R has done 2 review series on Legend of Korra sticking to certain sections of the story. This post is about the 2nd series called Legend of Korra: Reniggings, It is a 4 part over-view of the Avatar Wan 'story arc' which is the beginning of the shit that derails the original 'Civil War' plot of Season 2 of LOK.

E;R makes plenty of good points, though he does have a lot of /pol/ jokes in his reviews.

>Legend of Korra: Reniggings Part 1-4

1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5gGEWqO_Ag
2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm1S3OwCpJo
3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xcVv-m4fmU
4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYIoP2qYWXM

In Part 1, among E;R 's other points was about the Lion Turtles and how them giving bending breaks everything about bending in the Avatar universe. Rather than how it was in the original with early bender-capable people learning it by observing nature (Fire - Dragons, Earth - Badgermoles, Air - Skybison, Water - Moon) and applying themselves, now it's just magic energy manipulation. However the problem lies in more than the Lion turtles of LOK but also in the original. E;R doesn't really go into the Lion turtle in Avatar: The Last Airbender itself past what it says about how
>In the era before the Avatar, we bent not the elements, but the energy within ourselves….

The problem is that the lion-turtle's energy bending in the original series was already problematic on its own. Aangs argument about killing Ozai with his past lives is an excellent prelude to the finale, however that doesn't require being on the Lion-turtle. What the Lion-turtle does is give Aang an easy way out in dealing with Ozai. It was still executed well, however Aang wasn't forced to kill Ozai (or do something like crippling him or something else), which would be a completion of his role as the Avatar and its placement of the world over the Avatar as an individual. Dealing with the fact of his tragically forced decision/action would even make for an interesting end to the series climax with Aang dealing with the after-math of it and coming to terms with it, supported by his friends.

Lion-turtles were a part of ATLA as they are seen as statues, drawings etc. over the series. But energy-bending, at least how it was executed, is a Deus Ex Machina. Even if Lion-turtles are shown in scrolls or background art, they are never talked about outside the comparison of Sokka's bravery to that of one, and their abilities are never even hinted at ever. For fictional media sometimes having a deus ex machina is allowable, but the problem is that this deus ex machina is indirect, poorly made and breaks bending lore as said.
It isn't the Lion-turtle removing Ozais energy that is the issue, but Aang acquiring the ability to do so (repeatedly), not even training for it, but just getting it, is a rushed asspull.

Meanwhile when Aang is in trouble and enters the Avatar State, it comes at a cost - he loses control. That's why he's afraid of it. From a storyline perspective, it's not a deus ex machina because he pays a price to access it. Even if he was successful at mastering the State with Pathik, then at least it would've been a skill he mastered out of his own virtue and ability. Again, not deus ex machina. Similarly, to contact Roku, Aang had to travel to Crescent Island and risk entering the Fire Nation. Again, there's a price he has to pay to do this, so it isn't deus ex machina. The Lion-turtle? Not so much. He just appears and gives Aang the key to winning. Aang doesn't have to prove himself, or suffer any trial, or anything. Energy-bending isn't a reward for his accomplishments; it's a gift. Anyone, even you or I, can save the world if the proper tools are simply given for free! The point of the hero's journey is that he earns his powers! If Roku appeared instead of the lion turtle, then, yes, it wouldn't be a deus ex machina (because Aang has already earned Roku's aid), but it would still be kind plot hole-ish and inconsistent with Roku's character. And if Roku had energy-bending, why didn't he remove Sozin's bending, since he didn't want to kill him? Why did none of the other Avatars have this bending or even know of it?

The whole point of that mini-arc was that Aang was being pressured to choose his avatar duties over his nearly wiped out culture, but he was determined to find a third option that would allow both. An anti-trolley problem solution if you will, similar to Naruto. But the problem is that he doesn't think of a 3rd way on his own or with his friends or through some sort of trial, like the show did prior, which makes this magic solution feel like a cop-out.

TL;DR: Aang was a pacifist monk kid, but also the only one able to take on a violent maniac dictator. There was a dilemma and Aang didn't solve it; either by taking the given option (killing him) or by thinking of his own option. The Lion-Turtle and its energy bending was a deus ex machina that put the origins of bending under question and provided an easy-out for Aang, making it an unsatisfactory resolution of the mini-arc.


>Watch this literal Nazi, guys
Nazi Soyjak.png


Also the point of Aang finding a way out of killing Ozai was that Aang found his own way to save the world, one which didn’t violate the principles of his already destroyed people. Sort of like how Luke found his own solution when everyone told him he had to kill Vader, whether it be the Jedi or the Emperor himself.


cool input cuck


and it works within the theme of the show. Aang doesn't just control the outside elements, but by sticking to his principles when difficult, controls his own spirit. Which gives him the advantage over the firelord who only sought power. Its not subtle, but that reading is too deeply concerned with the superficial and misses the point entirely


I don't think that I'm exaggerating when I say that Zuko has one of the best character arcs in any television series, both live-action and animation.
To begin, look at his childhood; he was raised as a prince of a nation built on supremacy and waging a war for nearly a century. He was taught that he, as the nation's royalty, are simply superior to everyone else. This is made clearly by Ozai in the (admittedly shitty) follow-up comics; Ozai truly believes that he did no wrong, for he is the firelord, and what he does is right. This is very similar to how records describe someone such as Louis the 14th; he did not believe himself to be better than everyone in a modern sense; he believed that his superiority was simple fact of life. This was the idea that Zuko was raised on.
Now, we can see why he failed to turn against his father so many times. It took him ages to finally see Iroh as the man who was his father-figure and even longer to see his destiny lied not with Ozai but his nation.


I think it does also get into the interesting dynamics of a ruling class family compared to many of the families of oppressed peoples we meet in the show. Ruling class families can almost never have bonds of love and compassion; because what ties them together is the power they hold over others. Children are warped and reformed into cruel, brutal, selfish individuals; because that is what it means to be part of the ruling exploiter class. The children must vie for the affection of their family by participating in the ruthless and cutthroat politics inherent in it.


>TL;DR: Aang was a pacifist monk kid, but also the only one able to take on a violent maniac dictator. There was a dilemma and Aang didn't solve it; either by taking the given option (killing him) or by thinking of his own option. The Lion-Turtle and its energy bending was a deus ex machina that put the origins of bending under question and provided an easy-out for Aang, making it an unsatisfactory resolution of the mini-arc.


>Nazi Soyjak.png
Lily Peet and mny people have said the same i dont know why you have to post the poltard

well speaking of LoK i dont think is as bad as people say ,all the reviews i have seen tend to be butthurt ,also i dont think they used specific real llife ideologies to desighn the bad guys like normies say


I think Korra was shit for being aggressively liberal. And they misrepresented communism something fierce, like, the benders vs non-benders thing makes zero sense for communism; it’d have made more sense if it was a bender proletariat against a non-bender bourgeoisie.


Amon was supposed to be a mixture of radical politics of the 1920s thats why he is about equality(its worth noting that republic city was a bender oligarchy) while at the same time being funded by a car bouj(see ford) and having great speeches(and propagandist in the streets with those cones) he wasnt influenced by communists in particular


With the class collaboration elements, the Benders vs Non-Benders thing was more like "Nazism, but the Jews actually do have magic powers and actually do rule the world, and the SS are ninjas who can disable Jew Warlocks."
More generally, the issue with Korra was that it's primary idea is "all politics is personal." Except for the nihilist, every villain is ultimately revealed to have some personal trauma (generally daddy-issues) which motivate all their actions. Actual politics (for example, at some point, I think, it is mentioned that only benders have political representation in Republic City, but this is a throwaway line) are just a general malaise of things being not perfect and perhaps there are some reforms needed, but it is just this vague background.


File: 1608525679775.jpg ( 613.59 KB , 900x1633 , Dec 22_Post 2_Anarky.jpg )

Like Bane from the dark night trilogy and pretty much 90% of the time media try to portray 'revolutionary villains' it goes with the "populists will scam you approach" an ok message for kids but really bad for real life political theory
Another type of political villain and 100 times worst is the "ends never justify the means"see pic related


File: 1608525680349.jpg ( 457.16 KB , 1280x1920 , Wanted a Lion Turtle.jpg )

Did you read any of what I wrote? I stated WHY this "finding a way out" is bullshit. Aang DIDN'T find a way out, he as just handed it on a plate by a Lion Turtle with very little preparation besides some background cameos and a few minutes of vague exposition.
>it works within the theme of the show
Again, I acknowledge that, IF Aang reached this conclusion himself through his dialogue with his past selves, instead of having a Desu Ex Makino handed out
>by sticking to his principles when difficult, controls his own spirit
But that's stupid because the Firelord ALSO stuck to his own principles… evil imperialist principles, but principles nontheless.
>Its not subtle, but that reading is too deeply concerned with the superficial
No it isn't, but that isn't the issue. They just wanted to have a Lion Turtle involved because it was a cool aesthetic and decided to stick it in at the end instead of figuring out a smart resolution. It's a bad writing move on a number of levels.

Luke actually found his third method, finally realizing the intent behind the vague notions of his prior mentors (Obi-Wan and Yoda) - refusing to drop to the Dark Side and following his father's footsteps, which lead to his father's hidden wavering on the edge of falling back to the Light, finally tip, and lead to him rebelling against the Emperor in a final act of redemption. As Itachi said, "We don't know what kind of people e truly are until the moment before out deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realize what you are."


>actually buying into "le nazi E;R" meme from twitter.
&ltNot actually objectively watching a review of a cartoon from a story-telling standpoint and ignoring obvious JOKES
Fuck off back to tumblr.


File: 1608525680448.jpg ( 68.01 KB , 720x678 , Izumi wasted potential.jpg )

An example of an interesting Secondary character of LoK with wasted potential is Izumi. Besides having the potential for being among the most powerful and varied fire-benders to exist (none of which is shown, so much for 'strong women' outside of Korra), she is the mother of Iroh (Jr) and yet we don't know or hear of his father even in passing. Worse we have no idea who her own mother is (who Zuko married FFS!), just like how Lin and Suyin were given no parentage. It was really too bad.



NTA but the Lion Turtle thing does work fine. It comes off as cheap because the audience is used to Trolley Problem logic where you simply have to pick between two choices. Aang's method of arriving at the solution is also the natural conclusion of the show's philosophy, and the writers made the 100% correct call to put the most radical use of this philosophy as a pivotal plot point in the finale. The clearest explanation is probably the episode with King Bumi where he explains that sometimes doing nothing and waiting for conditions to change is the best strategy. Repeatedly in the story the characters don't work out the solution through careful thinking (which tend to be more western) but meditate or explore a subject until an organic option presents itself. The episode with the guru is also full of explanation regarding this kind of organic response to the flow of the situation. Many times a character works through things logically but when a situation presents itself they realize they were mistaken (Katara wanting to kill the Fire Nation soldier who killed her mother is a major example). The disagreement over the storytelling is largely to do with cultural values and specifically a failure to absorb the lessons the rest of the show very consistently provides.

The lion turtle presents itself to Aang in response to his spiritual connection to the world (above simply being Avatar) and his grappling with the subject and looking for help. It's much the same as how all the single-episode supporting characters come back to help with the assault on the Fire Nation. The entire exchange Aang has with his past lives and his whole deliberation process over the issue happens while he rides the back of the lion turtle. Aang working through the dilemma and refusing to compromise either the Avatar duties or his duties as the Last Airbender is a test of character given by the lion turtle. The energybending power is bestowed only after Aang has demonstrated his worthiness of it. It's not the first time he's encountered creatures of great power and reaped profound rewards because of his connection to the spirit/natural world. That's a very consistent aspect of his character.


>at some point, I think, it is mentioned that only benders have political representation in Republic City, but this is a throwaway line
It's in the very first episode. When Korra gets to Republic City one of the first things she encounters is a big rally of non-benders protesting this, and she starts to justify it because of… "bender fragility" or something.
>Actual politics are just a general malaise of things being not perfect and perhaps there are some reforms needed, but it is just this vague background.
This is the case (pretty overtly) because Korra at a personal level doesn't give a shit. The third season makes this completely explicit when Zaheer starts to explain his views and she tells him she's not interested. LoK brings up the actual politics multiple times but then glosses over it as soon as Korra arrives because she doesn't care. We see Kuvira exercising realpolitik to get territory. We see Varrick manipulating a situation to make profits. We see Unalaq engage in deceptions that cause a civil war. But all of this remains in the background because Korra personally doesn't care about the underlying problems or situation (polar opposite of Aang). She just goes and beats the bad guy. How much of this is an internal thing between writers who wanted to explore the topics vs writers who didn't and how much is just deliberate characterization of Korra who knows.


>It comes off as cheap because the audience is used to Trolley Problem logic where you simply have to pick between two choices
No, it doesn't. It comes off as cheap precisely because it doesn't break the Trolley problem as the series has done multiple times before, and instead provides a 3rd track through Deus Ex Machina, one of the shittiest tropes out there.
>Aang's method of arriving at the solution is also the natural conclusion of the show's philosophy
Except there is no method. I never disagreed that third-positionism isn't done by the series, but in THIS instance it isn't earned and comes off as a cop-out for Aang having to make hard choices, rather than an intelligent method of resolving the conflict. FFS Talk no Jutsu was a more legitimate method, because at least then we get an argumentative dialogue between two characters who figure it out on their own… or if they fail to figure it out/stay the course, suffer the consequences of doing so. ATLA did this before, such as with Zuko in the Crystal Caves or against his father during the Solar Eclipse. But with the Lion Turtle we get none of this:
Aang in subconscious state ends up on its back while exhausted trying to find a solution to his dilemma. He then calls upon multiple avatar spirits who each have lived their own long lives and their own nation's perspectives, yet they all say that as Avatar he must take upon himself the burden of responsibility, up to and including killing those who would disrupt the balance of the world. Aang's final argument is with another airbender, in an attempt at confirmation bias, and still gets the same answer. He refuses to be a killer however and then discovers the Turtle, who magicks the knowledge of "energy-bending" out his ass and into Aang, no prior research, hints or anything that would make this NOT be a total asspull. This shit is the same crap Kishimoto pulled in the 4th Shinobi War Arc.

All the examples you provide are legitimate… they also make this sudden asspull a real downer, because its so stupid.
>The lion turtle presents itself to Aang in response to his spiritual connection to the world
That's fine, that IS hinted at in the series prior, and is similar to the Badgermoles and the Dragons who acted in similar manner for the Gaang in other parts of the story.
>It's much the same as how all the single-episode supporting characters come back to help with the assault on the Fire Nation
Don't see the connection here.
>a test of character given by the lion turtle
That would be fine if it weren't for the fact that this is never implied at all. The conversation with his past lives don't even mention the Lion Turtle, nor is it implied that the Lion Turtle somehow influenced the prior Avatars. Even a simple dialogue would solve this:
- Avatar X: "In times when the Wisdom of generations of Avatars fails you, search out the wisdom of those who came before - the lion turtles
- Aang: "But where am I supposed to find a lion turtle, when the Comet is going to be here tomorrow!?"
- Avatar(s): "Look closely, and see that which is hidden under your nose"
*cue conversation with Lion Turtle who asks Aang what he is searching for and why and THEN bestows upon him energybending knowledge*

In 5 minutes I've already fixed the entire problem. But without the parts I just wrote in this whole "testing Aang" and "third option" talk just sounds hollow and contrived. Hell the writers actually had the PERFECT set up to this in a deleted episode: http://archive.vn/DF2YO

I'm fine with the moral being not to kill Ozai, but if that's the case then Aang should have come up with a way to do this thanks to his wits & established hints, not a magic solution literally handed to him by a giant magic turtle. It's like a shitty Gamera movie and frankly, a very lackluster resolution to an internal conflict ~60 episodes in the making.


>consistent aspect of his character
True, but again, some things need a little more fleshing out for this to work. ATLA repeatedly points out that Spirits & other parts of the world of Avatar are not just magic, they are puzzles, with certain limits & rules. Aang didn't stop Hei Bai by just saying "stop, I'm the Avatar, bridge to the Spirit World" He had an entire adventure exploring and understanding the spirit while also finding a clue as to how to contact Roku.

Moreover I would say that while this third position IS consistent and admirable, simultaneously it has its own issue of being very pacifistic. As the Roman proverb goes, Si vis pacem, para bellum - "If you want peace, prepare for war". In some ways Aangs need to either kill or incapacitate the Fire Lord was a final test of his resolve to help the world. If he did not he would damn it to more war & suffering, thus it would be his burden to bear - the taking of a life in return for peace, because most things worth fighting for do not come without a price and consequences. The third position was an interesting aspect in terms of "forging your own path" but simultaneously it also

- Roku: Be decisive, because when I was not, my best friend killed your entire ethnicity and embroiled the world in 100 years of war
- Kyoshi: Only justice will bring peace, because some people only respond to hard action
- Koruk: You must actively shape your own destiny and the destiny of the world
- Yang Chen: The Avatar can never be fully detached because he has his duty to the world

4 Avatars of different times, ethnicities & experiences essentially implied that he must make the hard decision and thus mature fully as the Avatar. Hell part of the episodes prior was a Baby picture of Ozai where Zuko firmly states that the happy little child wold grow up to be a monster, and his innocence then cannot influence the decisions in the now. From the start of the series it has been implied that to stop the Fire Lord Aang would have to fight him and likely kill him considering his unashamed fascism. This isn't even a Darth Vader situation, where Aang is somehow related to him, and can find a small spark of good in the villain's black heart, because really the true villain was the Emperor/Fire Lord.
Additionally the story provided a way out for Aang with the Solar Eclipse taking away Fire-Bending, so they form a grand invasion plan around this. They fail. They don't take out Ozai before the comet, forcing them to face him during the comet. This means that Aang has to do the one thing he dreaded from the beginning. Killing someone.

This isn't petty, "Yeah be the cool guy and kill the villain!" action hero crap. It's a serious, realistic choice to be made; you can't always win completely. If Aang had killed Ozai, it would have shown that the Avatar’s debt is really a heavy burden: Sometimes you have to sacrifice your principles for the salvation of the world and loved ones. By rejecting this Aang is special, sure… but it smacks of american "Everything is fine in the end" story telling, which undercuts the grittiness of much of the prior story. Like, imagine when after Toph implied that Jet was dying, he appears a few episodes later in perfect health; fuck that. Hell in the comics they even undercut this with the New Ozai Society, who cause mayhem in the name of the still living and influential Ozai. Its a similar problem as to why the Ural Soviet decided to execute the Czar and his family.

>Inb4 defeat =/= kill

If you pay very close attention to their choice of words throughout the show, you notice that they try to refrain from using “kill” or “murder”. Those words are too vulgar for a kids show (atleast back then). They always substitute it with something else. Ex.
1) “We don’t even know if Bumi’s still around” Sokka to Aang talking about Bumi instead of “we don’t even know if Bumi is alive”

2) “I’m about to celebrate becoming an only child!”Azula to Zuko instead of “I’m about to kill you”

3) Jet’s whole death scene which was made to be ambiguous although we knew he would die thanks to Toph

4) “And you won't have to worry about your destiny anymore, because I'll make sure your destiny ends right then and there, permanently.” Katara to Zuko instead of “And you won't have to worry about your destiny anymore, because I'll murder you right then and there”

5) “I did a bad thing. I know I did, and you deserve revenge. So why don't you take my mother? That would be fair.” Yon Rha to Katara instead of “So why don’t you kill my mother also”

6) “You will know the pain of losing a firstborn son." Azulon to Ozai instead of “you must kill your firstborn too”

7) “I'm sparing you, Sozin. I'm letting you go in the name of our past friendship. But I warn you. Even a single step out of line will result in your permanent end.” Roku to Sozin Instead of “even a single step out of line and I’ll murder you”.

So as you can see, they won’t outright say, “you have to kill/murder him”.


>That would be fine if it weren't for the fact that this is never implied at all. The conversation with his past lives don't even mention the Lion Turtle, nor is it implied that the Lion Turtle somehow influenced the prior Avatars. Even a simple dialogue would solve this:
- Avatar X: "In times when the Wisdom of generations of Avatars fails you, search out the wisdom of those who came before - the lion turtles
This isn't how tests of character work. You're only supposed to realize that's what it was after the fact. And part of the point of the lion turtle is that it's a special case for Aang to meet one. The nature of the lion turtle or energy bending could have used more build up, but its role in the plot made sense thematically.

>Moreover I would say that while this third position IS consistent and admirable, simultaneously it has its own issue of being very pacifistic. As the Roman proverb goes, Si vis pacem, para bellum - "If you want peace, prepare for war".
This just illustrates my point about eastern vs western philosophy. Rather than peace through deterrence or domination, Aang achieves peace through disarmament.

>4 Avatars of different times, ethnicities & experiences essentially implied that he must make the hard decision and thus mature fully as the Avatar.

The point is they were wrong. The point is that experience and established wisdom aren't always right (a consistent theme of the show). The past lives are shown to be wise but flawed, such as when Roku insists Aang learn fire bending prematurely and it goes wrong.

The reason it's a dilemma in the first place is that if Aang betrays his Air Nomad culture, the Fire Nation will have won. He might be able to bend air (like Zaheer) but wouldn't be an Air Nomad any more. He would have allow the genocide to be complete. YangChen didn't have that problem because the Air Nomads were fine back then. Kyoshi barely seemed to have a connection to the Earth Kingdom, being focused on her specific tribe. Aang's predicament was historically new and warranted a novel solution that the wisdom of past lives couldn't help with.

>but it smacks of american "Everything is fine in the end" story telling, which undercuts the grittiness of much of the prior story.

Not really considering how much effort Aang went through trying to find another way (both immediately prior to the battle and through his character development over the series). He did everything he could to earn the ending he was after, seeking help where he thought he would find it. Just like the Gaang's long-term adventures across the world earned them the support of its people in the attack on the Fire Nation, Aang's devotion to putting things right with the natural and spirit worlds culminated in the lion turtle coming to help in the end.
>Hell in the comics they even undercut this with the New Ozai Society, who cause mayhem in the name of the still living and influential Ozai. Its a similar problem as to why the Ural Soviet decided to execute the Czar and his family.
The comics are another story, and the question of legitimate rule isn't even brought up in the show. If anything divine right is legitimized since much attention is given to redeeming the heir (Zuko) rather than abolishing the monarchy. At the end of the series, the Fire Nation has a "rightful monarch" who is a Good Guy. This angle of criticism is absent (and would be anachronistic tbf).

>If you pay very close attention to their choice of words throughout the show, you notice that they try to refrain from using “kill” or “murder”.

Murder maybe, but they refer to death and killing at times.
The examples you give are all fairly realistic dialogue. People don't usually explicitly talk about killing each other that way. And Sokka's line about Bumi in context was clearly Sokka trying to spare Aang's feelings. In any case, I don't have the show on hand for quotes, but they made it quite clear what they were talking about with Ozai, which is killing him.


Accidentally deleted part of the post

>Except there is no method. I never disagreed that third-positionism isn't done by the series, but in THIS instance it isn't earned and comes off as a cop-out for Aang having to make hard choices, rather than an intelligent method of resolving the conflict.
His method is to keep looking until he encounters his answer, rather than to find one by thinking through the scenario. It's a more passive process of observation. With the Ozai dilemma he's more active because he's searching for a solution, but it's the same kind of thing he usually does where he gathers information instead of relying on his (current) knowledge. He usually acquires his edge not through wits alone, but by keeping an ear to the ground and being perceptive (and receptive) of the world around him. Aang had spent the whole series going out of his way to help those in need, and when an intelligent being who knows of him returns the favor to help him it's criticized for being deus ex machina (which it is almost literally), even though the show goes the distance to justify it with these kinds of magical beings and Aang's altruism. With all he had done (and would still do) for beings like the lion turtle, he earned the deus ex machina of a strange creature coming to help him. The only thing that was really missing and that I would criticize is the energy bending part of it. That could have used more build up with discussion on the nature of bending at some point earlier.
>I'm fine with the moral being not to kill Ozai, but if that's the case then Aang should have come up with a way to do this thanks to his wits & established hints,
That's part of what I mean about the western/eastern values. Aang doesn't win by thinking up a solution. He wins because his actions earned him the help he needed later. Rather than being and individualist rational science man, Aang derives his strength from cultivating his connections to the world around him.


>This isn't how tests of character work.
For the character themselves perhaps, but not for the audience. It's not supposed to be an out-of-nowhere surprise for the audience, but hinted at least somewhat.
>The nature of the lion turtle or energy bending could have used more build up, but its role in the plot made sense thematically.
I didn't deny this, but the lack of build up makes it feel shallow and unclear.
>eastern vs western philosophy
Kek, read The Art of War or Confucius… or the history of Tibet and their 'monks' who Aang is modeled from. the PRC don't give them an inch for good reason considering their ideologies and actions. The closest thing to the peace promoted by ATLA relevant to actual Eastern philosophy would be Indian Buddhism and Taoism… however Indian Buddhism can be violent as well historically, and Hinduism, (which is in part an origin of Buddhism) is VERY violent and destructive in some of its philosophies. That's not even talking about the Mongols and Cossacks and their very logical and harsh way of life and thought.
This whole "le peaceful Eastern thought process" myth has been touted for decades and needs to stop. Million-man battles were occurring in the East long before Europe ever reached such levels of death and destruction.
>Rather than peace through deterrence or domination, Aang achieves peace through disarmament
1) That's good and well, but as decades of attempts at Nuclear Disarmament have shown that's not so simple
2) Pacifism like this is well-meaning but also very ignorant. Taking away arms does not take away people's ability to cause destruction and chaos or act out humanities worst vices. Ironically the shitshow that is LoK demonstrates this quite well with chi-blockers and that rich fuck who created their army. It rings hollow even within ATLA itself seeing how none of the different nations could be placed as 100% good or evil.
>The point is they were wrong
But they aren't.
>The point is that experience and established wisdom aren't always right
While true for the show, the show has also pointed out that experience and established wisdom is also something to be listened to to prevent mistakes (Uncle Iroh and Zuko's dynamic). You keep trying to deal in absolutes, when the whole problem is that the show emphasized the LACK of absolutes in many places.
>when Roku insists Aang learn fire bending prematurely and it goes wrong
Roku did not insist on firebending prematurely, he merely pressured the old General to do so because of the limited opportunities for Aang to do so, especially with the war and the 3 month time-span. Aang decided on this path FIRST. Moreover it doesn't go completely wrong, since Aang learns, through painful consequences why and how fire needs firm control.
>The reason it's a dilemma in the first place is that if Aang betrays his Air Nomad culture, the Fire Nation will have won
No that's not it at all. Air Nomad 'Culture' is the surface level of the dilemma, the real dilemma is his own personal moral compass. The whole 'culture of peace' thing is demeaning to the 3 other cultures; are they and their ideologies immoral? Obviously not.
And this "We win when you kill us" theme is a big lot of bullshit built off of a misinterpretation of old proverbs such as "he who kills a dragon will become one himself", which is an allegory for taking and abusing power rather than actually an issue with killing an evil bastard. Without the Deus Ex Machina, Aang would essentially do the same thing Rose Tiko did in Last Jedi. Moreover the point is that as the Avatar, Aang cannot choose to live according to just 1 culture because he is the embodiment of all 4 and thus must embrace parts of each and owes his duty to them.
> Aang's devotion to putting things right with the natural and spirit worlds culminated in the lion turtle coming to help in the end.
Again this needs some serious backing. The entire complex journey of the Gaang is WHY this Lion Turtle moment stands out as so flat.
>question of legitimate rule
That's not what was being meant. The point was that with people like Ozai, leaving him alive, but disarmed is like letting a Nazi war-criminal walk, they're still a socio-political threat, if not a physical one.
>At the end of the series, the Fire Nation has a "rightful monarch" who is a Good Guy.
Yeah but thats more part of the whole "good kings" fantasy of ATLA, than anything intentional
>but they refer to death and killing at times
Very rarely and not killing (at least until way later).
>he earned the deus ex machina of a strange creature coming to help him
Again, never denied this
>energy bending
This is my entire point FFS. Energy bending combined with too subtle 'build-up' makes the moment fall flat.
> Aang doesn't win by thinking up a solution. He wins because his actions earned him the help he needed later.
Nibba, a massive portion of Greek and Norse myths use this same formula. Where do you think Deus Ex Machina (God from the machine) as a phrase comes from?
>Rather than being and individualist rational science man
Not what I said or meant with using his wits and hints.
>cultivating his connections to the world
The two do not exclude each other.


>The politics and history and social relations are never explored because the MC is an apolitical retard
Imagine if Naruto never had shit like our boy going ahead and fighting against the social relations of his society


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An intresting thing is that with that film producer guy in the later seasons all rich bouj and petit bouj in the show are non-benders ,the triads and the police aka the thugs are benders and the power hungry brother of amon who goes full law and order is also a bender , idk what that means , could be that writers are liberals who only see oppresion by the state and not the power that money may have despite both in the 1st and 2nd season we see bouj influencing politics(the equalist arsenal the let them coup the rebulic city and the literal war profiteer in season 2), maybe who knows


They have Nazi colors


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>The Legend of Korra is Garbage by Lily Orchard:
I disagree with most of her videos but this is the one video that I agree with whole-heartedly as it lacks any talk about id-pol asides the stuff that the show tries to shove in a la "le Gay POC" (who does what's good for her rich friends at the cost of everyone else).

She points out that the show keeps trying to be anti-extremist, but the results of those extremists seem to display that these extremists were right and actually achieved results. Lily also pointed out how the ideology of the show was "democracy is good because we say so" which is exactly correct. Lily also points out how muddled and hypocritical these pro-democracy characters are, such as Suyin who was ranting and raving about The Earth Queen, and how royalty are bad (in spite of how this essentially should put her at odds with Zuko), yet later is all for the Earth king prince to take the throne again instead of democracy, in spite of his own reluctance to do so, her reason being essentially that 'the people don't know what they want'. Later with Kuvira, she tries to play her as the villain when Kuvira was essentially putting the greater good ahead of everything to re-unite and stabilize the shattered territories Earth Kingdom. The show ironically fails to prove the ideology they want to promote and instead make most of the villains stupid yet still prove them right most of the time, with only Kuvira NOT being stupid/lying and only Zaheer being proven wrong… Only for Zaheer to become some enlightened heretic monk, making no sense whatsoever.

I THINK Suyin was supposed to be the libertine in contrast to her stricter, based (half)-sister Lin. But even then I'm not sure if that was intentional past the cliched anime Tsundere and Deredere pairings you see in other shows like To-Love Ru (MFW I just realized Korra has parts of it as bad as To-Love Ru).

- Amon (prior to the whole 'he was really a self-hating waterbender all along!' bullshit): A total equality where no-one can bend anything. It's a strawman of communism, but even then the change is literally just downgrading one person to be equal to others, not even killing them or otherwise harming them. His relation to Asami's father is also probably a reference to how "communists" are always getting paid for by rich people so they're not REALLY the people's will. As anyone who knows what socialism and communism is, this is neither but hey, who cares? Not the 3.8 MILLION views per episode of the 1st Season!

- Unalaq: Wanted to and did become chief of the Northern Water Tribe over his older, birth-right (but unspiritual) brother and re-connect the people to the spirits… until the plot decided to do spirit magika instead. Lily covers this better than I can put it into words, but the point was about spirituality. Unalaq was (prior to the idiocy of the Satan and Jesus motive with Ravva), seeking to re-unite the water-tribe people with their spirituality, as this important aspect of life was being lost on the new generations, (something backed by how important spirits were in ATLA such as with Hei Bai). After the whole Ravva retardation, at the end of the Season Korra does exactly what Unalaq's original motivations were, release the spirits to allow the world to be closer with them. No real on scene casualties (even though malevolent spirits exist, and spirits in general have held humans in poor regard).

- Zaheer: MUH LIBERTY (Basically removing all restraints between spirit world and the normal world by removing all government and killing the Avatar. An AnCap's wet dream. The Red Lotus has the most victims in its plan but it is also the only extremism that DOESN'T result in a positive promotion of their ideals (mostly because the former part about the Spirit world was done back in Season 2). The result of his rampage was complete lack of authority… and the chaos that followed - and which he promoted - led to conditions of banditism, terrorism and fear in the population, which in turn REQUIRED authority to end it.

- Kuvira: she's an obvious allusion to a dictatorship, except her actions (up until the ass-pulled giant mecha shit) and her methods are all justified measures in the midst of the chaos caused by Zaheer and his moronic mind-set as well as Korra and Co.'s spineless attitude in dealing with the Red Lotus. She is in many ways similar to Stalin, TBH. Harsh measures being the only thing capable of stopping the collapsing remains of the Earth Kingdom. While never actually showing her doing anything evil, they keep talking about things like labour camps and suppression… which ignores the fact that a Revolution must be defended from reactionary elements, including with labour camps, which give criminals a chance to contribute something to society while being reformed and punished for their crimes. Korra essentially disappeared for 3 years, and left the Earth Kingdom in a state of Anarchy, while Kuvira and others picked up the pieces she left behind so one can't really blame her for not wanting Korra to come bck and start doing whatever the fuck she wants after that.
>Based post materially analyzing Kuvira and comparing her actions in universe to rel life equivalents that were direct inspirations:
>Actual Gulag rundown:

In most of these cases, usually the villain's ideas are nebulous concepts of freedom and equality and other shit that are shared by most decent human beings, the difference is that prior to their extremist actions nothing was changing, people were just nodding their heads and bleating about how things shouldn't be so oppressive, and doing nothing about it until someone (the villains) decide to stop taking shit and take action. See Pic 3.
The show attempts to cripple this idea by making almost all the villains liars, but this fails because even if they were 'pretending' to believe their ideologies, their main 'pretend' idea is believed by others and is eventually carried out as the main cast essentially conceded to their ideas being right after-all. The show proves extremism as effective, while ironically preaching against it. When Brike finally realized the hole they wrote themselves into they decided to revive Toph in season 4 and preach to Korra about how the villains took good ideas too far (stupid philosophizing that is out of character for Toph in the first place).

With Ozai you had a consistent (if simple) villain who was an obvious and unapologetic imperialist/nazi and with anyone below him you get people who are complex enemies without having utter sob-stories for backgrounds. Zuko was a victim but at the same time this didn't stop meaning he was an asshole himself.

And get this, we're just talking about a BASIC over-view of the series as a whole. If a basic over-view is completely broke, than can you imagine what a more detailed review would be like!?

As a side note the true villain of the over-all series is Asami, see pic 2.


>>Based post materially analyzing Kuvira and comparing her actions in universe to rel life equivalents that were direct inspirations:
Reading this and the responses he does in the comments I'm convinced this is really clever comrade who used a JFK quote and repeated comparisons to post-fascist retribution, to worm his way into reader's minds with based material analysis. He even outright states in response to one criticism;
>Should she not centralise the Earth Kingdom to deal with famines? Should she not act brutally towards bandits?
Reminds me of a certain Georgian idol of ours and the ML arguments defending him.
Its unfortunate that the account was clearly banned and deleted by plebbit mods.


>Asami pic
It is the bourgeoisie. It was always the bourgeoisie.


God, all the dirty libs in that sub made me sick, what a bunch of faggots


>that reddit thread
Nah one of the first redditor btfos the bouj nationalist idea that muh great 18 villages over the river bulshit , the earth kingdom was at peace with the fire nation for over 50 years by the time of the ethnic cleansing ,and lets not talk about the fact that the ussr never send any ethnicities to gulags desoite liberal propaganda


>Manchukuo should’ve existed forever


manchukuo was a pupet state that fought against free china fuck it, i never even mention the manchus you schizo


Republic City is Manchukuo dipshit


>Linking E;R

Oh great yet another "Edgy" wannabe "Reviewer" who took his unfunny and retarded jokes from /pol/ Yeah truly a quality comedian.

As if I needed a review from a wannabe /pol/tard like "Semicolon" to tell me that Korra was shit.


nahh it isnt , msnchukuo had an actual local population diferent from the mainland


Exactly like Yu Dao, the Fire Nation colony renamed Republic City?
If you support the existence of all the genocidal settler colonial states currently polluting our Earth with their presence why do you even call yourself a communist?


>Muh E;R!!!!!
&ltactually buying into "le nazi E;R" meme from twitter.
&ltNot actually objectively watching a review of a cartoon from a story-telling standpoint and ignoring obvious JOKES
Fuck off back to tumblr.


what are you thoughts on the upcoming sequels

i mean 4 avatars doesn't sound enough we need a trio triology


Why the fuck are you so triggered that nobody wants to watch your shitty e-celeb?


his views (and comments both leftish and not) state otherwise.
&ltEveryone on youtube who I don't like is an e-celeb, waaaah!
The better question is:
Why are you so triggered because someone posted a minor youtuber with an interesting review?

People here read and consider the arguments of Stephen Kotkin, despite his anti-communism and occasional bullshit.


But you’re the one responding to everyone that says they don’t feel like watching a /pol/fag?


Mancuhus were a local tribe not colonists you retard and the Republic city allowed anyone to live there and didn't claim to be the only true succesor state to the earth kingdom


>everyone who responds to whining is 1 person
I just adjusted the copy paste from the post in >>2810 to fit your whiny post. Stop bitching about "muh /pol/" when the point of those videos and their analysis has little to nothing to do with /pol/ talking points, outside of Jew jokes, which as an ethnic Jew myself, I still laugh at. Sure he makes a discount "lazy commies" joke but that's the point, it's a caricaturist joke thrown out in light of the lazy radlib succ-dems of the Burger society. Regardless one can learn lessons from enemies, its why I read Mein Kampf; for as much as I detest the nazis, one needs to understand their motivations to deconstruct them past "nazi bad!". Moreover in topics of non-ideological discussion political differences are irrelevant.


E'R has made the same points with 90% of all other nerds that review LoK why are such a big fun of him


Lily Orchard is openly a communist.




watch glass of water


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> 90% of all other nerds that review LoK
No not really. He points out the blatant idpol well and also points out an important thing about Raava and Vatu being bad satan/christ inserts, something that no other youtuber I have seen has pointed out. Lily Orchard, and his reviews as well as Llama's reiew of Season 2 are the best I've seen. I just ignore his occasional /pol/ jokes and focus on the important parts that pertain to his points. I can agree and disagree but over-all I find his reviews an enlightening (if vitriolic) point of view. Most other reviewers were too scared to offend the LoK fandom until years after the show ended which makes many of their reviews too lenient IMO.

I've heard her claim such and point out some relatively communist talking points but her focus on idpol and other positions would have me categorize her as a radical liberal in terms of ideology.

Both Lily and E;R make videos I have disagreed with but they do rather dent story analyses, and you don't have to agree with their humor or political background to acknowledge their objective points on series and films they review.


I'll have to watch E;R's reviews, because the one thing that really bothered me about Lily's review was her instance that Raava and Vatu were God and Satan allegories, despite the former two being on equal levels of power, while Satan is lesser than God.


But they objectivly were god and satan allegories , i doubt the creators are theologians


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Nazbol Gang?


They supposed to be a Ying and Yang allegory, representing a balance of chaos and order, but they ended up being more like a Zoroastrian allegory, with a a powerful good fighting an equally powerful evil.


E;R asserts the same as Lily in this regard but he points out how it counters the whole point. And while Satan is weaker on an individual basis, his influence and being one of several Demon Kings, makes up for it by allowing greater influence on people


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There is almost nothing in LOK that I like, but there still things that I did enjoy.

- Season 2's initial Civil War plot was an excellent, murky exploration of the grayness of such a conflict with things like corporate sabotage, glorification of war, suppression of dissent/provocation of dissent, corporate false-flags and the use of ethno-nationalism as a method to keep others (like the Fire Nation, the Republic or the Earth Kingdom) out. The ideological issue about loss-of-spirituality was also very interesting considering how important it was to the Avatar. This was all abandoned sadly for God v Satan allegories and beam-battles as well as the literal destruction of the previous Avatars.
- Kuvira: She was the foil to Korra and her gang of liberal suck-ups. She was decisive and logical, taking action and level of measure as the situation called for. She was basically the only character whom I related with wholly by that point in the story. More on that in >>2888
The only others who I liked before were Tenzin and Lin Bei Fong, both of whom - by that point - were forced to dog Korra's heels like obedient dogs, brow-beaten into submission by the writers forcing the plot to make Korra be right, and them to submit to her for that. They were cool while they lasted though, and managed to keep SOME sense of dignity throughout the show, in spite of the plot making them look like fools before Suyin and Korra (and gang).
A good article on how shafted Lin was: https://www.thefandomentals.com/lin-beifong-unsung-hero-korra/
- I liked Amon: As a villain. Communist strawman aside, his hypocritical but well written character made him an enemy to be feared, but the further it went (after he removed his mask at Korra's demand) the less logical it became. His story was interesting, but when it suddenly turned out to be a lie… it was stupid. Tarlok was a needless plot-device, but his round-ups of non-benders still somewhat functioned if it wasn't for the bullshit blood-bender rubbish, (because well-meaning bureaucrats taking a strict approach are all secretly evil). Moreover the fear of benders by non-benders makes sense and was pretty legitimate, but for some-reason the writers played it for laughs…
- Toph: What is there to say? She is the awesome Blind Bandit and greatest earth-bender. Sadly, like with Tenzin and her daughter Lin, she was forced to be far more accepting of Korra's bullshit than the previous show would allowed, and was nerfed into an old granny (which is a poor showing when looking at King Bumi). If it weren't for Korra-Sue and the lib-succ agenda, she also wouldn't preach philosophical crap about 'going too far', which is the opposing idea of her character - a person who goes as far as she wants and as far as required, and who would not be hung up on formless ideals and 'taking them too far' (let alone the fact that the definition of too far is unaddressed).

So that's just about it… half a season, 2 villains before they were flanderized at the end of their respective arcs, and 3 wise, stoic, gruff characters who were denigrated to serve Korra by the plot and writers.



By the time Season 4 rolled around I was hoping that Kuvira would just straight up kill every member of the main cast. I hated them ALL. In fact I was disappointed that Zaheer didn't permanently put Korra into a coma.

Korra is a 10 year old's idea of what politics is:

Communism is strawmanned as "lul everyone equal!!!111"

Traditional spiritualityis strawmanned as…actually, it's not even a strawman since it's so ridiculous, basically the argument against Unalak is that if you become too spiritual you'll get possessed by a demon who wants to destroy the world


And Fascism wasn't even fascist. Kuvira was far closer to Stalinism - sorry, "Marxist-Leninist" ideology than fascism because the thing about fascism is that THEY ACTUALLY KILL YOU. Re-education camps only makes sense within a marxist context where the individual worker is just confused and needs help seeing the correct path. The idea that a fascist regime would try to convince opponents of their ideological merits instead of throwing them to the gas chamber is completely ridiculous.




> he wasnt influenced by communists in particular
I mean from the POV yes. However in the context of what came after the 1920s ("communism is total uravnovilovka" strawman), it isn't an unsurprising idea, especially since Amon is put-down as an extremist.
Red White and Black are colors used by many propagandist posters because they are eye-catching. The Nazis knew this and used this, but that does not make the scheme 'Nazi Colors' any more than it makes Germans = fascists.
>upcoming sequels
What now? I've heard Netflix is doing something but a trilogy?


Kuvira is hot and zaheer did nothing wrong.

Also korra is hot with her later arc hair. Buff tomboys ♥️.


Azula was my first animated crush


>zaheer did nothing wrong
Zaheer did everything wrong… Fucker was just trying to be chaos incarnate… that's what you call a true villain.
She was hot and smart
&ltlate arc
Tomboys are great but her late-arc design was mediocre.
Good luck with the Yandere psycho kohai!


>Tomboys are great but her late-arc design was mediocre.
Better than her shit early design.


Just saw the Lily Orchand recomend in yt. An hour an thirthy! And like/dislike ratio closed? Did she angered the fandom? And what hot takes did she said?


Plus when I was a kid, beggining to understand politics. I couldn't but root for Kuvira and hope the little prince get shot. Fuck the Korra Squad.


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> Did she angered the fandom
Yep, pissed them right the fuck off because she pointed out the following "hot takes"
A) The majority of villains are cheap hypocrites representing certain ideological strawmen
B) They abandon a valid and interesting Civil War plot in Season 2 for God v Satan allegories (in a world specifically created and inspired by Far-East Asian cultures)
C) Korra is a liberal gay PoC shove in
See >>2888 for a thorough analysis and expansion on her video and their points.
>root for Kuvira
You've got the right idea comr8!


Cool. I've never realized that her eyes were green and it matched.


The original series is going to be on Netflix this month, and the creators are doing a live action version for Netflix. How bad is it going to be?


Eye color is tied to nations.
Green = earth.
Red = fire.
Grey = Air.
Blue = water.
Cultural garb matches the eyes most of the time, since it's part of the motif. Air Nomads are the obvious exception, wearing red/orange.


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>on Netflix this month
&ltnot just streaming it for free from any online service
>doing a live action version for Netflix
&lthow bad
Probably full of shite idpol and hamfisted romance dramas. At least the CGI effects look decent for a Netflix production (pic related).
>Eye color is tied to nations
You're generally correct, though there are exceptions in the series. Regardless, its a nice touch of the Original series that points out that different people can be and are different and that is not a bad thing.


I have the series in video files. I was just mentioning it's going on Netflix because they have the rights to stream it and to make an adaptation, so maybe Nickelodeon will sell the whole show or something, IDK.

>Probably full of shite idpol

They announced that the characters will be played by actors of the "culturally appropriate" actors. To a degree it makes sense, but you're already looking at a small group of actors if you need (good) child actors who can convincingly do martial arts. It's fantasy anyway - you could make the cast any ethnicity. The characters don't belong to "real" ethnicities.

Shyamalan got a lot of shit for casting some characters as white but people ignore the fact that he made the fire nation Indians just so he could cameo in the film without sticking out.


He actually genuinely could be a Nazi (He mentioned at point that explicitly likes to put Right-winging talking points / memes / Dogwhistles into his videos but claimed that it was just for da memes) but that's asides from the point

The points that him and "Left-wing" or "woke" content creators make about the show (And other things like SU for instance) are basically the same just with different wording


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>>>/roulette/ is /a/ now
This belongs over there.


No, fuck off.


>basically the same just with different wording
finally somebody gets it.


Lol no, he's a token radlib and literally thinks that fucking Canada is socialist.


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>>3732 already posted the first one but those are the best leftists analyses of TLoK:

Book 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ModX151Ipgs
Book 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6alQz2CEsz0
Book 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DyKwTXPar4
Book 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGX2rRAlNME


Re-watching Avatar rn since it’s on Netflix
Forgot how fucking good, based, and red-pilled this show was tbh
I’m surprised how, despite the silly gags, younger cast, and less pandering to teenagers this show still feels way more mature and intelligent than Legend of Korra


Honestly, just for one instance, this show treated war and environmental degradation WAY more intelligently than Korra does; and the world building is so much deeper, an industrializing world that’s roughly our 1800s with its own unique feeling


Holy shit, anyone else notice that the names Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom actually fit our understanding of the two forms of state? The Fire Nation is indeed a centralized nation-state where all regions are governed by a central authority, whereas the Earth Kingdom is a decentralized feudal society where governing is by local governors, kings, and lords that pledge loyalty to the reigning monarch


all of the societies are sorta analogues for epochs of human civilization, air nomads are hunter-gatherers with herd pasturing and light agriculture, water tribe is settled small agricultural societies in the northern water tribe and large semi-feudal kingdoms in the southern water tribe, the earth kingdom is pure feudalism developing a bouj class, where the fire nation is basically at the start of mass-industrialization.


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Yes, and the water tribes are structured as chiefdoms while the air nomads don't appear to have much of a political structure and (going by Aang) spend a lot of their time traveling the world.


>air nomads are hunter-gatherers with herd pasturing and light agriculture,
They do herd sky bison and appear to grow fruit in orchards, but they are vegetarian so definitely not hunters.
>water tribe is settled small agricultural societies in the northern water tribe and large semi-feudal kingdoms in the southern water tribe,
Got them mixed up, but they are based on the Inuit and Yupik cultures and are exclusively fishers/hunters, which is the only viable food source in an arctic environment. And funnily enough this makes them a direct foil to Air Nomads.
>the earth kingdom is pure feudalism developing a bouj class, where the fire nation is basically at the start of mass-industrialization.
This is accurate though, and interestingly the show makes a point of displaying the huge farms at Ba Sing Se so the creators were clearly thinking about how these societies reproduce themselves, unlike in Lord of the Rings for example.


>Tfw the Nickelodeon american anime has better worldbuilding than LotR


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LotR was always very idealist whereas Avatar is much more materialist and the magic is treated like a law of physics.


2 1/2 minutes into the first vid and I'm actually mad at how they treated the Equalists as an adaptation of communism. Imagine if they tried to adapt the logic of actual communism to bending and the plot was about trying to use energy bending to give bending to everyone. There is so much potential for interesting conflict there.
>only the avatar can do it, so Korra has to deal with balancing that vs avatar duties
>does everyone gets bending? even criminals and poormies?
>who goes to the front of the line to get bending?
>do some people want bending taken away for some reason?
>can people from the Earth Kingdom get firebending?
>can people learn multiple bending types (lacking avatar spirit might make it impossible)?
>can you have trans-benders who change from bending one element to another?
There's huge potential here but they instead did le ebin polisci 101 "social commentary."


A better way to do communism for the Avatar world would be to expand scenes like Mako working as a lightningbender in the electrical power industry to have non-bender capitalists controlling and exploiting the labor of bender workers. That would actually fit for a take on communists as the Season One bad guys, if they wanna be libs they can just say that the bender workforce were right to oppose their exploitation and have a compromise between labor and capital.
But that would take even somewhat understanding communist ideology and unfortunately the two creators weren’t working with their original staff who could probably have done it better.


*Were right to oppose exploitation but the “Equalists” went to far


Well yeah the best way to do communism is to do communism but I was talking about using bending as an equivalent for the means of production.


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The four classical elements as represented in Avatar (Earth,Water,Fire,Air) act both in the shows world and our real world as a "Psychocosm" or a "Symbolic microcosm of the Human psyche"
Aang's goal to master the four elements (which in turn entails the mastery of the emotions and forms linked to them) is in effect to seek "Enlightenment" "Gnosis" "Ultimate attainment" or whatever spiritual term you want to use to describe gaining a perfect understanding of yourself and the universe all that other shit etc
Aang's attitude at the start of the show is literally symbolised by Air (Gases) Aloft and adrift both physically and emotionally etc
His attitude is also similar to the symbolic attributes of water allowing him within the shows universe an easier time learning waterbending

Air (Gases) and Earth (Solids) and the emotions represented by both symbolically are most separate from each other so Aang has great difficulty learning Earth-Bending and requires a spiritual / emotional awakening as to be able to do it (This is basically explained in the episode where Toph is trying to teach him so i wont dwell on it)
Firebending proves the most challenging for him to master as the emotions that Firebending are symbolic of in the show (Hate, Rage etc) are basically as far off from Aang's usual personality as it gets and he is unable to see the need for a balance between the (Cooling) Water and the (Hot) Fire due to his preconceived notions about the nature of it but realises its value after encountering the dragons with Zuko

The fight with Ozai and Aang's triumph over him by making use of all 4 elements is meant to symbolise Aang finally achieving the Enlightenment / Knowledge / ultimate attainment his journey was truly about by framing Ozai as an extremely powerful evil and borderline deity tier foe that is only overcome by Aang going by Aang achieving complete literal and spiritual / emotional balance between the elements

It can be said that Zuko / Sokka also achieves this though in a slightly more roundabout way which i will only really both to explain if someone asks me


I’d like to see your explanation


Zuko starts in the first season as basically a human embodiment of the emotions and feelings encapsulated by Fire in the show (Hate, Anger, Bitterness, Revanchism etc)
During season 2 when he is being instructed by his uncle in the method to bend lightning his uncle explains to him the need to spiritually and emotionally understand water / waterbending as to gain the ability to bend lightning
Basically through the third quarter of the first season and the majority of the second season Zuko is travelling through the Earth kingdom having to repeatedly fight earthbending guards and so on and adapts how he fights away from just throwing fireballs at things to being more creative. After the episode where he has the crazy fever dream and talked to the spirit dragons and shit (This is the turning point where i believe he understands "Earth) and fights Azula and the Dai-Lee he is seen literally making a wall of fire similar as to how Toph and over earthbenders had been seen making walls of rock and stone to throw at their enemies
Him fleeing the palace during the eclipse in season 3 as to mirror how Aang flees the Nomads temple during the storm in the first season and finally during the episode where he is shown the ancient style of firebending / fighting by the dragons which causes him to realise the purpose of "Air"


His entire journey with Aang after encountering him in the iceberg. deciding to leave his prior life behind go on the journey etc
Meeting and being taught to fight by Suki / is given someone / something material real "Solid" he can fight for / ceases to be useless
Him ceasing to be a totally cynic ass during his time in the North pole and becoming more emotive at the end of season 1
Being taught about battle by the master swordsman in the fire nation. Finally becomes an actual master swordsman who manages to help take down a whole air ship fleet

I believe that in effect all three of them did end up partaking in a "Avatar Journey" of sorts (Even though Aang is still the literal in-universe "Avatar") and all three could be said to embody some of or all the traits either required to be or present in the "Avatar" as a concept which is basically Christ / Buddha / Krishna - esque figure


>the “Equalists” went to far
Not this liberal garbage again. It was stupid enough when Toph said it in Season 4 and it still remains stupid.


Interesting analysis, quite philosophical.


>Not this liberal garbage again. It was stupid enough when Toph said it in Season 4 and it still remains stupid.
The creators are liberals, I’m not saying what I would write, I’m saying the storyline they could have written for it to make more sense


Okay now explain why Korra was shiiiieeeet


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People have already in like half the posts ITT the reasons the Social / Economic commentary of Korra is absolutely garbage but i have wanted to make a post on what Korra tries to add to the Cosmology of the avatar universe

The Retconning of the avatar from being a series of mortals who reach the supreme attainment yet choosing to reincarnate as to help others into the Avatar basically being a meat puppet guided subconsciously by one of the two princple gods of the universe (The Blue sting ray thing that gets dragged out of Korra) is quite stupid and dosent really add anything to the story

The introduction of these two gods though does do some interesting things as it helps establish the world of avatar having a Emanation cosmology which basically interprets that reality has descended in numerous stages First from an absolute nothing or pre existence towards an existence of relative "Nothing" where the existence of something is possibly followed by movement (time) which is followed by existence in the sense of a timeless unity which devolves into dualism which devolves into the spiritual and finally the material

This graph i made tries to explain how the universe was made in the Avatar lore basically according to this


The good/evil spirit thing was the stupidest shit ever. The whole thing for the avatar was creating balance and harmony but apparently the true nature of reality and "balance" is good triumphs over evil.


>good triumphs over evil
That's not a problem, not in terms of story telling nor Avatar itself, in a way that is the story told by ATLA; Aang destined to beat Ozai. The problem with Korra is how it DEVALUES the triumph of good over evil.


Started rewatching and forgot how based this show can be. The episode on the prison derrick in book one has a solidly materialist point. Katarra tries to rally the prionsers to fight back and escape and nothing happens. Only when they arm the earthbenders do they fight back.


I don't think liberals would be this straight orientalist, Avatar takes the orientalism of previous western pop culture to its logical conclusion


Rewatching Avatar on Netflix and I just gotta ask
Why was this show so much fucking better than Legend of Korra? Did they not try at all with LoK?


>Orientalism is when your show isn’t in Western inspired cultures


Aaron Ehasz was the guy who was head writer for literally every Avatar episode and he was completely absent from LoK.
That's the whole reason why essentially.
(Ehasz now has his own show on Netflix called The Dragon Prince btw)


Was he not interested or did they fire him?


It might be because he got #metood but this might have been while he was working on Dragon Prince


LoK tries to deal with 20th century politics but it's made by uncreative and dishonest liberals


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>Orientalism is a presentation of style, artefacts, or traits considered characteristic of the peoples and cultures of Asia by Western writers/artists/viewers
Does that answer your question(mark)?


Avatar was a planned well-thought passion project that attempted to tell a coherent 3-part serialized adventure/quest story, using characteristics and cultural references from Eastern cultures, while allowing themselves leeway by creating a fictional world inspired by said cultures and their spiritual philosophies (primarily Daoism and Confucianism). This also allowed for a basic magic system (bending) that had 4 simple tenets that could be expanded slightly (ice, blood, lightning or metal bending), but retained the principles of the basics.

LoK takes the prior series, and just making it into a 1920s Americanism… which clashes horribly with the concepts of the preceding series, especially since bending, a power available to many but not all, would shape industrial progression a lot. Toph's metal bending ALONE ought to be revolutionary, and the fire-nation's huge industry demonstrates the potential as well.
The creative tactics and weapons during the Eclipse attack on the Fire Nation and their inventive creators also shows this, yet we're supposed to believe that things just went to "the roaring 20s" for no reason? The idea that lightning bending is a mundane job is interesting, because it implies that firebenders are taught properly so that they can do it too, rather than only a select royal few who get private tutoring on the matter, which implies a socialized education system in regard to Bending. This is never shown and contradicted by the "Batman"-esque story of Mako and Bolin, growing up on the streets. clearly Bryke, because Erhaz was gone ( >>5328 ) had nothing to moderate their liberalism, and the success of ATLA had gotten to their head.

TL;DR: Korra is to ATLA as Boruto is to Naruto.


>Does that answer your question(mark)?
So unironically
&ltWhite people should only depict white people cultures
Idpozzed as fuck bruh


>White people should only depict white people cultures
I don't know how you came to that conclusion. A person from an outside point of origin will still tell a story from that view. The point (as far as I can tell) is that Avatar the Last Airbender took a lot of Oriental inspiration for its story but also did not shy away from stereotypes like "le asian spiritualism" and other stuff, which isn't inherently bad, but is consistent with prior Western Pop Culture (Kung-Fu/Karate movies for example).
The idpol only comes with Korra which decides to insert needless Americana into an Asia-inspired setting.


I think he was writing for Futurama at the time of Korra's first season and potentially for the later ones too.
And as a result Bryke decided they could probably handle it without him (they could not).
Yeah that seems to be a fairly recent debacle, and I imagine there's not much noise about it because it doesn't seem like a substantive case.


How is it "Le Asian Spiritualism" tho?
Is a show in fantasy Europe or the Viking age that depicts magic, spirits, and monsters there showing "le whitey spiritualism"?
What about supernatural christian mythology shit?
Should ATLA have just…not had spirituality in it? Should it have not had characters with any sort of connection to said spirituality?
From re-watching the series, the spirituality of it is incredibly varied. The Fire Nation doesn't come off as highly spiritual at all and in fact has no respect whatsoever for the Spirit World aside from Iroh and later Zuko, the country actively destroys nature, is attempting genocide, and one of their lead admirals personally killed a spirit for the sake of power and only Iroh attempted to stop him.
Aang comes from a particularly spiritual culture and was a master in this culture, besides which he's literally the Avatar so a connection to the Spirit World is part of his job description.
Sokka is incredibly secular and skeptical and Toph never came off as particularly spiritual. Katara is in between Aang and the others. The Earth Kingdom also comes off as a pretty secular culture. Really the only highly spiritual culture we encounter were the airbenders.


>How is it "Le Asian Spiritualism"
How is it not? The spirit-world is available to those who are most attuned with the spirits and nature. The best benders are also those who learn and are atuned to nature with the benders learning from the creatures of the world such as the firebenders from wise Eastern Dragons (a very stereotypical Eastern symbolism).
>"le whitey spiritualism"
The fuck are you talking about? Why the use of a slur when I didn't use Gook or Chink or Nip?
>a show in fantasy Europe or the Viking age that depicts magic, spirits, and monsters
If being depicted by East-Asians? Yes. The spiritual Asian schtick comes from Western interpretations and stereotypes of Asian culture.
>Should ATLA have just…not had spirituality in it
Nigga do you have eyes? Did you not read what I wrote or are you just trying to bitch about something?
I literally said that a stereotype isn't inherently bad but is consistent with Western Pop Culture. How extensive an explanation do you want?
>the spirituality of it is incredibly varied
Yes, and? where did I say anything against that? Literally nothing you're saying is something I denied or disagreed with, I just pointed out that it is orientalist.


>doesn't seem like a substantive case
Besides the Weinstein case and other irrefutable examples, most of them are insubstantial.


I have a strong dislike for series where innate supernatural powers are used as allegory for class separation.


>innate supernatural powers are used as allegory for class separation.
Well that's not really the case, though. As the original ATLA shows, conflicts and classism existed for millenia and bending was just a tool for that means. As shown in the last season, being a fire-bender does not automatically make you privileged, it merely allows for a single advantage over non-benders which is not assured (see Ty Lee, Mai and Sokka) While it is true that non-benders are ridiculed in the system, that does not exclude heirarchy. The King of Ba SIng Se is a non-bender, and many royalty and upperclassmen are non-benders (Bei Fong family).
Regardless your strong dislike is unmerited unless it is done in a hamfisted way, which in ATLA, it is not, while in LoK it is.


The King of Ba Sing Se is obviously a puppet.

And it always begets the question why benders are not using their powers to their advantages, but that shit is also constantly present in cape.

Why I dislike the innate superpowers so much is because they kinda feel like wishful thinking from the rich kids producing this show. Sure you may be shorter smarter and so on, but this all gets superimposed by money. Money feels like a superpower to them, but that it away and all that remains is a chump.

I would not object this so much, if those bending skills were acquirable, but that is not the case sadly and I wonder why it is so seldom done.


ATLA uses non-bending as an allegory for physical disability.


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But the Bei Fong family are not and neither are other nobility of Earth and Fire.
>why benders are not using their powers to their advantages
Except they do? Zuko Alone shows an episode where Earthbender soldiers use their bending to lord over a village and force them to give them food under threats of attack.
>dislike the innate superpowers so much is because they kinda feel like wishful thinking from the rich kids producing this show
Well for one, I think wishful thinking for superpowers is something near-everyone hs at almost any age, The point is not to let such day-dreaming affect your day to day life or make something good from them (creating an interesting and well-written fiction like ATLA). Moreover bending has limits and is rferential to things in real life, such as martial-art forms which in turn gives it limitation and definition. This is similar to Ful Metal Alchemist (not that I'm a fan), where 'Alchemy' require specific symbols and materials to produce something.
>Money feels like a superpower to them, but that it away and all that remains is a chump
Perhaps, however a chump, regardless of all his money cannot make art, cannot animate, story-board properly, study martial-arts and East-Asian cultures or otherwise create an intelligent well-made show. Want evidence? take a look at Steven Universe. Rebeca Sugar is doing this with her 'friends' and basically just throws money at sweat-shop animators who don't even have proper character-sheets or story-boards to work with. Rebercca, being the rich kid paying for and 'making' it, creates an appropriate producet - absolute schlock.
Even Korra, despite all my criticism has a certain level of animation quality and basic story-boarding, not matter how idiotic some of it may be. Thus the lack of Ehasz meant that Bryke had no counter-balance that made ATLA what it was.
> not object this so much, if those bending skills were acquirable
They are, but not easily. It is shown that people learned bending from the creatures of their world, with a genetic component playing a part. A bender with no training may live like an ordinary person all their life, like person with magic living normally. We see this with the Earthbenders, such as those in the Fire Nation prison who were just plain villagers with mediocre bending compared to someone trained like Toph or King Bumi.

TL;DR: Its a magic system in a world of magic, which is why direct comparison is foolish. Allegories are secondary material in the story, and as long as it is properly introduced/world-built, the powers and their cultures are acceptable as part of the fantasy and the quest we are following.


That's kind of dubious since most people can't bend and that's considered the norm whereas bending is considered a special gift with spiritual meaning behind it.


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which one of these niggas was right?


my theory is that Jin Wei and Wei Jin were the same person and in failing to complete the redemption ritual he was cast out from the Gan Jin tribe to form or join the Zhang tribe.


What if Korra was actually based and classpilled?

>Amon's plan has little to do with bending and is just organizing a proletarian revolution, but the conditions aren't ripe so he fails, but leaves an impression on Korra

>none of the dumb light vs dark shit happens, and instead the plot is about Unalaq using nationalism and the civil war to quell class tensions and get the water tribe to accept "the balance" as in class collaboration and instead of merging the material and spirit worlds Korra just merges the water tribes paving the way for internationalism
>Zaheer and the others don't just get airbending by deus ex machina, instead the Red Lotus found a way to unlock energy bending and give bending to the masses. Also they are organizing an anarchist insurrection instead of just assassinating politicians.
>Kuvira never gains power, instead Korra is the antagonist trying to preserve order and the supporting cast have to make the choice of whether to side with the status quo or the international revolution


No it’s the exact opposite


I just finished Avatar and it was such gas. But what I'm getting from this thread is that I should just stop there and not bother with the Legend of Korra? COrrect?


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All this would be great… y'know, except the Kuvira stuff, because she's absolutely based.
Honestly Korra should have learned different lessons from Amon (equality between people is hindered by the differing situations of benders and non-benders as well as different classes of people. Unalaq would have swayed her with populism (class-collaborationist thought) yet she would realize that people cannot be simply complacent when she sees the abuses this leads to. From Zaheer she would learn the opposite lesson; that chaos and anarchy cannot be allowed to run freely because its liberation will swiftly turn deadly without anything to moderate it. Finally she would find kinship in Kuvira who restores order but also intends to spread things equally and properly, collectivizing and redistributing food. Also, if they had to have a lesbian ending for Korra (cringe idpol as it was), that would be a much better ship to have.

PS along the way they realize what a subtly manipulative porky Asami is and confront her over being like her father but more insidious, leading to 2 options, forced dekulakization or voluntary collectivization of her private property.


The point of the episode was that both had their own truths and it was foolish to hold a feud over something so inane as a family story without proofs.


That's the point of >>5550
They mean if Korra had been written in a class-conscious way, rather than how it was actually executed.


>Stop there
Yes. The good parts of Korra are outweighed by its cringe.

I'm Ashamed to say I forgot to post the original series of E;R's review of LoK, aptly named Legend of Whorra.
Playlist of it, 1-4 as well as all 4 Reniggings reviews: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJvE6-ZPK6g7B0vCH_jZOUUQSiSnhQVik
Recently E;R also released a review of a graphic novel of LoK starting from just after the End of Series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaGmgXR9iFM


Korra is pretty shit. The art and production design are good but basically everything else is ass, especially compared to TLA. Straight downgrade. Especially the writing. It's really obvious there were major rewrites at a couple of points that completely fucked the plot(s), and half the characters have less personality than most one-scene characters in TLA.


Best character arc in ATLA?


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Iroh didn’t need development
He started where he ended
Honestly I’d say either Katara or Sokka


I think Zuko's arc is one of the more satisfying redemption arcs to come out of pop culture in recent years


Aang easily has the most going on of anybody, but for quality of writing and character arc I'd go with Katara or Zuko.


OP here: That's actually a big theme of the show and why the OP image was chosen.

Zuko, Sokka and Katara.
- Toph is like a rock, largly unchanged, just smoothed out and sharper by the end in terms of skills
- Iroh, as pointed out in >>5597 didn't need to develop, if anything he was the character that displayed completed development from the start, with his only development being his decision to be more active in going against his brother Ozai's moves for power.
- Aang did develop, but primarily it was him getting over his insecurities and learning his Avatar duties rather than a significant change.

Meanwhile Sokka went from a boy full of bravado and a narrow-minded attitude, to a more competent fighter and strategist, to finally a full blown warrior.

Katara went from an uneducated and kind girl with a temper and an unhoned ability to a skilled waterbender with a brave heart and finally a young woman with a mastery of waterbending and real maturity.

Finally Zuko went from an angry, dishonored prince, who thinks himself more adult than he acts to a more rational youth who understands what is truly important to him and finally a matured young man that has gained the self-reflection needed to be a fair and just ruler.


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Would you watch a spinoff about the Order of the White Lotus? On hand they're all very interesting characters on the other it might risk taking the mystique away from the universe, revealing more than what's needed or whatever like in Star Wars


So long as its not liberal drivel I'll take it


You avoid ruining the mystique by making the series about the White Lotus from Korra or between the two series. Hell, a series about how the world got from TLA to Korra would be interesting in itself.


It's something like a political thriller set in the immediate post ATLA years, Republic city is in its infancy and the White Lotus has to defend it from nefarious actors who would try to derail or coup the Republic, could make for some great TV


character development is completely overrated, admit it. every scene with Iroh is a highlight in the show. people circlejerk about Zuko has "so much character development omg" but the reality is that it was actually painful and cringeworthy to watch him at the beginning of the show.


Yes, it's supposed to be painful and cringeworthy at the beginning. The whole point is that people like Zuko was at the beginning can become better.


Having some run-ins with factions from both series would also allow them to be fleshed out so they're less retarded. You could even save the Red Lotus by introducing new characters who are the brains of the organization and get killed, leaving only people like Zaheer who have a mutated version of the ideology.


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Honestly I think any future series should just ignore or outright retcon Korra. With that in mind since the setting of Avatar during Republic City times is capitalist, I think it would be interesting if the Equality movement was a parallel to the real world syndcalist movement, Amon, or some figure like him could be an analog for Georges Sorel, it would be interesting for the Avatar to go up against someone with a sophisticated justification for the street violence and terrorism that the Equalists do.


>Honestly I think any future series should just ignore or outright retcon Korra.
I agree but let's be realistic.
>With that in mind since the setting of Avatar during Republic City times is capitalist, I think it would be interesting if the Equality movement was a parallel to the real world syndcalist movement
I think if we're doing an interquel we should be drawing more from Asian history than western history, like ATLA did. IMO the worst thing about Korra isn't even the bad plots but the way they took a distinctly inspired world taking from a lot of non-western cultures and doused it with gallons of burgeroid spunk. If you just take the situation in ATLA and carry it forward you get the question of how the Fire Nation interacts with the rest of the world in peacetime. I'd expect economic imperialism which would raise a lot of questions for the protagonists and audience. The 100 year war was basically an anti-colonial effort against people who thought they were going to modernize the backward parts of the world. How much of this ideology Zuko retains as the new Fire Lord would be something to explore. How would he handle transitioning the Fire Nation from a total war economy to something else? The Fire Nation in general gets very little exploration in either series tbh.


That's only because of the war going on. I'm sure like 90% of benders get drafted. Not much of an advantage when you gotta die fighting.


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Has anyone in here watched the Dragon Prince by the way?
I feel it's relevant to the thread for comparison between the shows since Ehasz is the writeyboi.
I feel the characters and their interactions thus far are incredibly well-written, as was to be expected from Ehasz, but the world is kind of bland and nonsensical.
It lacks a degree of internal logic, scale, uniqueness, and theming that I feel was present in Avatar's world.
This isn't to say it's bad or anything, but it seems nowhere near the same level to me, and I guess demonstrates that Bryke did truly present something of value to the development of Avatar,
and that the whole Bryke-Ehasz dynamic is not merely mythology made by fans disappointed by Korra, but was in fact quite real in creating the Avatar we all know and love.
Curious for anyone else's thoughts if they've seen it too though.


Yeah it's a few seasons in and it still doesn't have strong worldbuilflding, they'll really need to improve on that if there's gonna be a new season


I think that ATLA really needed the trinity of Konietzko, DiMartino, and Ehasz. Bryke understood worldbuilding and Ehasz understood character. ATLA had both. Korra only had Bryke, which had some interesting worldbuilding at times but it clashed with the writing and made it even worse. Dragon Prince has solid writing but the setting is kind of just there. It rarely plays into the story or gets explored enough to make it interesting or even clear.


That being said Dragon Prince is a much more watchable show than Korra


Big yes to that.


Story is almost always more important than worldbuilding so yes. Also by leaving a lot of the world unexplained you at least make it more mysterious. Doing the similar thing with your characters (like Korra did) and not giving them a lot of characterization just makes them boring.


Its bloody interesting but the RWBY-level 3D models and effects give me Dragon-Booster flashbacks. Its the exact opposite of Korra's issues, which had great 2D animation with horrendous plot and characters.


>any future series should just ignore or outright retcon Korra
Like with the Disney sequels, that ain't happening anytime soon.


As long as it doesn't include Korra and has proper story direction.


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>As long as it doesn't include Korra and has proper story direction.
Probably going to pre-Aang timeline would be the best choice. A more tribal world before the "nations" and closer to the spirit world.


a story about the unification of the fire nation would be cool
we know that during the Kyoshi period, the fire nation was still not unified.


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>Aang should have come up with a way to do this thanks to his wits & established hints, not a magic solution literally handed to him by a giant magic turtle
Possibly the most briliant example of this I've seen (also admittedly a huge bone of contention among fans at the time, but those people were tosspots) was the finale of the FMA manga/Brotherhood anime.

All the pieces of the puzzle are in the protagonist's and audience's hands alike by at least 1/3rd through the story, and it all comes down to a moment of truth with the protagonist forced to think hard and realize what he truly is or isn't willing to sacrifice within his moral principles.


Actual depiction of SPD’s alliance with Freikorps


god i want azula to fuck me


wanna fuck shortstak toph


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>>>/GET/ out

Toph is best grill


Somebody working on the series definitely had a foot fetish.




>Kyoshi has the biggest 千乇乇ㄒ of any Avatar


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>I can also use my earthbending to sense how hung you are
Reminder that Toph could "see" every time her parents or friends fucked or took a shit or whatever. Suki and Sokka had sex where she could easily sense it, and Suki at least having reason to suspect Toph had a crush on Sokka.


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Stop this lewding and making me want to fuck Toph and give her footrubs you dicks.


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Toph is a loli, not a shortstack goblin


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dump time


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Thread related or not, this is called spam. Don't fucking do that unless you're writing something to go with it… Like you haven't even written "I love Azula" or something that would even go with this. Christ.


I was hoping the voice actress for Azula would be as hot as I imagined her :\


It's called an image dump. Lurk more.


File: 1608526111199.jpg ( 26.12 KB , 400x400 , Grey DeLisle.jpg )

I know what an image dump is, and that;s called spam. This isn't 4chan /trash/ where threads are fast and massive. Look you posted good pics, but don't dump shit like that, 3 images 6 image, fine, but everything at once is just a waste.


What's wrong with Grey DeLisle?



Wanna put my face in them melons


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Hello anons. Today I learned something new about Avatar that I didn't know. Apparently Clone Wars creator Dave Filoni made his big-league debut with Avatar: The Last Airbender: Book One - Water


File: 1608526123204.jpg ( 105.42 KB , 1280x720 , appo.jpg )

yeah he even had a clone with a homage to the airbender tattoos as a way to reference his work on TLA



Filoni is the GOAT


Eh, he was. He's gotten sort of cucked under Kathleen Kennedy. He changed the final season of Clone Wars a lot, and much of it was quite tasteless.


The Mandalore arc was gas though and that made up for the boring Martez sisters, but yes point taken.


Hnnngh and good taste pilled. For me, it's Toph and Mai. Now post some Mai, bros


Could Aang using the avatar state to fight Ozai be a metaphor for the USSR at Stalingrad?


While you can use it as a metaphor, there is nothing to really support this that I have seen.


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>Avatar: Legend of Kuvira
>Earth Kingdom collapses into a multi-sided, fractal civil war
>lead a small group of loyal followers, build up a freedom force from practically nothing
>Earth Empire citizens hate Wu so much they chase him away and praise Kuvira as their savior
>find yourself becoming a leader of men, of a nation
>struggle with the new realities of bestriding the world stage, facing down statelets that aren't evil like your original enemies
>insidious foreign interests want to install a puppet ruler who'll laze around the palace all day
>stamp out hunger, illiteracy, crime
>stand before the leaders of the world and reject their smiling conquest of your people
>end thousands of years of monarchy
>reclaim territory stolen by imperialist colonizers
>end centuries of national humiliation
>choose love of country over love of flesh
>get called evil for Doing the Right Thing
>adopted mother tries to murder you
>face off against a living god… and win
The only reason she's a villain is because at the last minute she pulled a giant mech out of her ass and decided to annex Republic city through force. If she had played the long game and not aggressively annexed Republic City through conquest she would've definitely won. Even then the only reason she lost at all is because they decided to have her waltz into the city with the mech instead of standing 3 km away and threatening to nuke the city unless they surrendered.
Honestly what was the problem of Kuivira annexing Republic City when she already oversaw Kiyoshi Island? The colonies are Earth Kingdom territory by default. She could sit down to discuss things further with Raiko and turn the cities into a special-administrative zone that ultimately answers to the Empire, but still run local affairs.

The only gripe people could have that was demonstrated was when she put the hands of desperate bandits on a train track and told them to either kneel and join her army, or leave them there until the next train comes. Dragooning bandits into her army and giving them a new sense of purpose working for society instead of against it is exactly what the GULAG system did so I see no issues.


The most important question was never answered in this thread.

Kitang or Zutara?

Wasnt Ang younger than Kitara, she seemed lukewarm to him the whole episode and in the end decides to be with him out of duty only or something. Seemed zuko would have been better for her.


It's spelled Katara and Aang anon.
Katara and Aang were only 1-2 years apart in age, so are Zuko and Katara. The latter have a few bonding moments of trust (such as in the crystal caves and when Katara sought revenge) but had a lot of bad blood between them.
Aang and Katara hit it off from the moment they met. It wasn't lukewarm so much as already established and assured; they were past angst of "does s/he love me, does s/he not?"


Oh my bad. I get that the show was set up to make them a couple in the end, but many times in the early part of the show Katara refers to him as just a friend and Aang struggles with it a lot. The turning point for Katara seemed to be when the mystic said she would be with a powerful bender and she assumed it was Aang and started considering him as an option. The whole show did seem a bit deterministic with destiny being an important guiding force for the characters, but it kind of defeated the point of a spontaneous passionate love that can arise from nondeterminism. I think this is why Aang was insecure around Jet when Katara seemed to fall for him hard initially. The whole thing was very confucian, where the love was more forced and taken for granted as part of one’s destiny. Saka didn’t seem to have the same problem maybe because he was more of the analytic mindset.


Katara and Aang's relationship was super forced. She loved him, but in a platonic, motherly, nom-romantic way and putting them together in the end was so icky.

Also the maturity difference between the two is huge, Aang is like a kid constantly wanting to play and goof around, rarely taking things seriously, while Katara has had to grow up fast since she was a young girl and lost her mother - she is mature, responsible and years ahead of him in maturity. It felt so forced in the end, like she was just giving in to destiny based on what the fortune-teller said and because she felt obligated, there was no chemistry, no passion, no romantic love as there shouldn't be because the gap between them mentally is quite large.

Zuka would have been a better fit for her, but it would have been better for them to end the show with her single instead of her giving herself to Aang like some victory prize for him.


File: 1608526387010.png ( 2.13 MB , 2000x3178 , ATLA shipping 1.png )

Yes, this is fairly well put, sh's not serious at first, but upon seeing Aang as more than just a kid, she becomes more enamored with him, as he is with her.
Sokka was analytical indeed, and he naturally knew how to placate a girl, no doubt due to his arguments with his sister, thus when he meets Suki, he admits his arrogance and learns from her, and throughout his travels strives to be a better man.


>Katara and Aang's relationship was super forced.
&ltShe loved him like a mother
I can agree with her being a mother-hen, but that applied to the whole group, and originates from her growing up without her mother. The relationship isn't forced because it isn't a big deal. Aang has a crush, Katara doesn't notice regardless of what he does. Then she hears a prophecy and the words of Sokka about Aang, make her reconsider her stance on Aang, but she doesn't get all lovey-dovey or anything. The few moments she had were sparse and very childish between the both of them, such as when they were stuck in the labyrinth of the two lovers.
>Aang is like a kid constantly wanting to play and goof around
No, he acts like that because he KNOWS he has a lot of responsibility and needs to relax and release his stress, he is very mature for his age but still needs a coping method. Katara acts mature, but her age shows when she gets challenged by someone like Toph or when situations get tough (heh). She's not much older than Aang either, and her behavior prior to meeting Aang and setting out on their journey is still that of a teen girl.
>she was just giving in to destiny based on what the fortune-teller said
You missed the point, the fortune telling is just suggestions and guesswork, but also effort because destiny is not a set-stone path.
By what? A powerful bender could be a lot of people… FFS King Bumi is a powerful bender, Toph is a powerful bender, Zuko is a powerful bender.
>there was no chemistry, no passion
Because it is a PG show about barely-teen kids setting off to end a 100-year war while learning body-magic.
>Zuka would have been a better fit for her, but it would have been better for them to end the show with her single instead of her giving herself to Aang like some victory prize for him
I agree with the latter part of this sentence.


There's plenty of times when Katara shows romantic interest in Aang. She just does it less often. One of her major character traits is difficulty expressing her own feelings of attachment. She gets a whole episode about this at the beginning of season 3 revolving around her abandonment issues with her dad. Aang on the other hand falls for Katara immediately because he wears his heart on his sleeve.


Zutara is full retard. She spends almost the whole series hating his guts, and not in the "I love you but pretend to hate you" way. At first Katara is outright racist toward the Fire Nation because of her experiences, and then the grows to hate Zuko on a personal level. It's only because she's naturally compassionate (and hot for bad boys) that she ever shows Zuko any kindness before she's reminded of their history and her biases.


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>Korra wants to resolve things peacefully
&ltNo Korra we need to kill that bitch! (whom I raised like my own daughter, but bonds mean nothing).
Suyin was the real villain of season four. Her and her cunt daughter who treated Bolin (and Kuvira) like trash for no good reason. Then get all surprised he defects to Kuvira's side. Suyin essentializes bourg, middle-age divorced women who engage in entitled liberal social activism, but when the cards are down backs down and backtracks from her virtue signalling with stupid platitudes and pseudtalk. The further you listen to Suyin when she loses her composure, the more you see the rot inside, such as when she told her sister "No wonder Tenzin ended things with you years ago"
The only reason Kuvira is seen as the villain is because of the ideologism of
Even though I don't know how that works in Avatar World. Especially from a collapsing kingdom. Like Prince Wu just going "okay we're a Republic now" isn't going to work, especially not coming directly out of the collapse of one of the most powerful nation states in the world. All that's going to happen is civil war and it'll just re-balkanize. The UR president admitted that the new king was going to be little more than a puppet controlled by "advisors" he had picked. It literally reflects current leadership of other countries controlled by NATO. Kuvira had the right idea of using a strong hand to bring the state back together and rule it efficiently so it could rebuild. Then she could gradually begin to liberalize after a few years once things are stable. Kuvira is excessive, but not because "muh evul villain" but because the needs of the many are being forgotten. It's what makes her different to the mad queen that is Azula.
FFS she isn't even going that far off Suyin's ideology
>Growing up in Zaofu, with Suyin Beifong, I learned that the idea of a royal family passing a title from one generation to the next was archaic, and that technology and innovation should be what drives a nation forward. It was the pathetic rule of kings and queens that caused the Earth Kingdom to descend into such incredible disarray. It's taken me three years to get it back on track, and there is no way I will allow it to slip back into the dark ages. I'd like to make an announcement to the world: the Earth Kingdom is no more. I have created a new Earth Empire, and I will continue to lead it into the future myself, bringing about a new era of prosperity for my people. And let me assure my fellow leaders of one thing: Anyone who crosses our borders or stands in our way, will be crushed.
Yet while the rest of the Earth Kingdom rotted away into civil war, illiteracy, poverty, and etc. Zaofu has sat on Earth Kingdom territory away from it all, shielding themselves away from the rest of the kingdom, and pretending to be an independent nation who was "better" than everyone and more "progressive" and when everyone wanted to be like them and needed their help, what did they do?
They looked away from it and said "That is what you get". They showed no remorse or kindness to their own brethren. Instead of uplifting the rest of the nation to aspire to become like them, they looked down on everyone and the irony to it all is that the advance city of artisans was ran no different from the Queen of Ba Sing Se.
Kuivra was right to tear down the walls of Zaofu and bring it back in line. They looked down and cursed her along with everyone from Zaofu who followed her because they knew she was going to bring the rest of the Earth Kingdom up to their level and then they would no longer be special or above them, instead they would be painfully average and equals.
Also, it's implied Zaofu was built through piracy and other crimes done when she was in "Exile" All her closest followers were ex pirates and criminals given "a second chance". Yet when Kuvira does it more roughly "dats bad". (Suyin being a big criminal boss would have been an interesting dynamic between her and her sister and be consistent).


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Nah fam, this ain't it.

Zuko belongs with Mai.

She was his childhood sweetheart but didn't actually start dating him seriously until he proved himself as a man to the Fire Nation (earning his place to sit at the literal Right Hand of the Father in that one meeting in final season) and then she stayed loyal to him against Azula's commands when he finally proved himself as an independent, courageous, principled moral agent/anti-imperialist/"traitor" to the Fire Nation by rejecting the Father's plan for global genocide and helping Aang & Crew.

Literally the GOAT couple of the ATLA universe.


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>Hey if the Avatar wins this duel I will leave Zaofu
>Avatar gets BTFO 1v1
>Alrighty I'm sticking around. Really want things to not go like shit here
>Avatar proceeds to tell Suyin and her people to cool it while they think of something and try negotiating more.
>Kuvira is accommodating and hasn't marched on the city when she could have for awhile already even after she beat the Avatar
>Suyin proceeds to drag her family in a poor assassination attempt only to get BTFO
>Kuvira proceeds to occupy the city in response without doing any damage

>Korra - the Avatar
>capable of wielding multiple elements since 4 years old
>trained by skilled masters in 3 elements all her life and spent 1 (4) years with airbending
>a member of a professional competitive bending team
>gets fuckin' dismantled in 5 seconds
Jesus she even sucked at the one thing she was supposed to be good at.

The Korra-Kuvira duel highlights the problem with Korra's fighting style the best. She's all straight punches and kicks, each aimed at the torso. Kuvira on the other hand used strategy and fought creatively. The Avatar has the most versatile arsenal in the world and she uses every instrument in it as a club. Frankly, Korra needs years of training in each bending style from the ground up to make up for something like this. It's not a problem of ability bit of mentality. The only way you can cure something like this is just straight up prohibit her to use anything except the most basic tricks of just one bending style and then make her train exclusively with them until she understands how to use them creatively instead of brute forcing them.

BTW something that a few people have noticed; Isn't wearing metal armor, in a time when metal bending is fairly wide-spread a really stupid idea? Kuvira demonstrated this when she imitated the Vader Force Choke on Varrick. Kuvira should have theoretically broken SuYins back the moment she put the metal armor on. In Naruto or something similar, this might make sense, People can't easily hijack a jutsu because a person's chakra is in it and thus theirs to control. Here, any metal is bendable by any metal-bender.

Of course to be fair it depends on how metalbending works in LoK. The idea of impurities seems out the window compared to how Toph was using it in AtLA. So now that it's just "any metal except platinum" it could come down to proximity and the influence a bender exerts upon the object. Suyin armor is close to her and she is a master level. Kuvira is also a master level but the armor is on Suyin. Suyin's hold on the element would be in her favor. Like how Zaheer could readily bend the air in the Earth Queen's lungs since the Queen isn't a bender and can't defend against it. Korra had to be on the verge of death before he could start to do that technique.
Or chalk it down to another Korra retcon since Earth benders have more control over things they touch or things that are connected to the things they touch (with Toph having to be touching metal to bend it). So it's extremely hard to control something you have no connection to that another earth bender is touching. Also one of the core principles of earth bending is stability/resistance both in literal and metaphorical senses. It is easier to make an object stay in place than make it move.


Obscure bending styles suddenly being commonplace is one of the worst aspects of Korra. The logic seems to be that industrialization makes everything easier, but that shouldn't apply to techniques using just the human body. The logic of metal bending is that it requires exceptional talent to perceive and manipulate the impurities. The logic of lightning bending is that it's extremely volatile and difficult to control without dying. But this (like a lot of other things) is completely forgotten in Korra.

On Korra's fighting style, she's not just doing simplistic attacks, she's going all-out on almost every attack. This makes her slow and easy to dodge. She can't even do something as simple as combine a jab and a hook or do a feint. Her approach only works on someone who sucks, like a grunt, or if she has the Avatar State that ramps up her attacks into AOE damage so dodging stops helping.


>BTW something that a few people have noticed; Isn't wearing metal armor, in a time when metal bending is fairly wide-spread a really stupid idea?
It's weird that it doesn't come up considering this is basically how P'Li dies, even though it's not her armor.


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Lightning and Metal-Bending, while a stretch is still plausible, Zuko and Toph had a few decades to train people and those people to train others. The real question is fucking Blood-bending.
Katara and the lady who taught her knows how to, but it still relied on the moon and was inspired by sheer desperation. Katara swore to never use it or teach it. The experimentation needed for this requires a lot of free-time and other factors, yet there is this family of benders who can say "fuck the moon, I'll blood bend anyday!" Not only was it a shitty twist to discredit Amon (and somehow the anti-bender WATERBENDER WHO FIGHTS OTHER BENDERS didn't think to use non-washable make-up).

Honestly it would have been a better twist if the person who learned blood bending, did it because he wanted to manipulate tits to jiggle (pic 2 related), that would be better than the shit we got with Noatok, Tarlok and Yakkone. Especially with that depressing double-suicide ending.


Yeah that's a good example!


>Katara swore to never use it or teach it.
It didn't take her long to break that promise in ATLA to be fair. She does it at least one time later when she goes on the trip with Zuko to track down the raiders.
>The experimentation needed for this requires a lot of free-time and other factors, yet there is this family of benders who can say "fuck the moon, I'll blood bend anyday!"
Them knowing blood bending is believable because if Hama could invent it so could someone else. What's not believable is just doing it any time, but I guess that's the old shonen power creep. The thing is they could have had some plausible explanation for it, like how Sokka's space sword was forged from a meteor. If someone held an amulet made from moon rocks there'd at least be some reason and not just because. That version would also create an obvious limit or weakness that a power like bloodbending absolutely needs to have. You could even explore the possibility of denying the power by taking away the amulet, but having a limited time to deal with the foe before the full moon gives them the power back. It is just really shitty writing.
>(and somehow the anti-bender WATERBENDER WHO FIGHTS OTHER BENDERS didn't think to use non-washable make-up).
This and the premise being dumb in general make me think they came up with it last-minute. Originally the show was supposed to be a limited series with about half the episodes season 1 ended up with, so maybe originally they didn't even have an explanation for the de-bending and it was just a mystery. If they had more time to plan a full season they probably could have done something more sensible.

>Honestly it would have been a better twist if the person who learned blood bending, did it because he wanted to manipulate tits to jiggle (pic 2 related), that would be better than the shit we got with Noatok, Tarlok and Yakkone.

What would have actually been good is if they explored Aang's energy bending abilities in a completely different way. He had every reason to try using it to restore Airbenders to the world. It was already established that the air acolytes exist preserving the culture, and we know he can use energybending to give people bending because he did it with Korra. The plot could have been that he was experimenting with energy bending for that purpose (which is where I thought the story was going anyway after the end of ATLA), and discovered a way for other people to learn energy bending. This would give Aang and Korra a similar situation to Roku and Aang and would have made Aang more morally ambiguous in a way that was actually consistent with his existing characterization.

>Especially with that depressing double-suicide ending.

Fun fact, if Korra had also an heroed by jumping off the cliff most of the problems in the rest of the series would have been averted entirely.
&ltUnalaaq needed the avatar to free Vaatu (next one would be Earth Kingdom and probably not be recognized for over a decade)
&ltNo ability to free Vaatu means no Water Tribe civil war shenanigans
&ltNo Vaatu means the previous avatars remain connected and the cycle continues normally
&ltNo Vaatu means no attacking Republic City
&ltNo spirit portals means no spirit vines and no new airbenders
&ltNo new airbenders means no Zaheer or Red Lotus plot
&ltNo Red Lotus means Earth Kingdom doesn't fall
&ltWithout the Earth Kingdom falling Kuvira doesn't rise to power
&ltWithout the spirit vines and Kuvira, nobody plunders the Banyon Grove or builds the not-a-nuke spirit weapons or the giant mech


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Also, as an aside about Metal bending and how its used in regards to Platinum.
Platinum is actually "paramagnetic." Meaning that it can become magnetic in a magnetic field (such as near a permanent magnet), and one which Kuvira could actually generate herself (given the properties of metal-benders). Now yes the magnetism disappears when the magnetic field is removed, but in a pinch, Kuvira is not going to let that up until the mech is wrecked.
>Su-Yin has to make herself more of an irredeemable cunt to goad Kuvira into being evil
>continuing the adventures of "We don't know the metallic properties of platinum"

Remember when destroying the Drill outside Bah Sing Sei was really interesting and engaging, because the Drill worked on real world principles? So destroying the drill wasn't a big stupid fight with the outside of the machine, but an act of internal sabotage? What happened to that?


>She does it at least one time later
In a fit of revenge-fueled rage, she later gets guilty about it and if Korra or Kaya doesn't know it, I doubt anyone else was taught.
>if Hama could invent it so could someone else
True, but the situation is what led Hama to achieve it, desperate to use her waterbending to escape somehow she learned to pull it from the air and manipulate it in the body over at least a decade. Where is the motivation or time spent with Yakkone?
>shonen power creep
With shonen the power-creep is usually at least possible somehow or they at least explain why it is possible, or specify why its a special ability, which you pointed out yourself with the amulet idea.
> the show was supposed to be a limited series with about half the episodes season 1 ended up with
From the interviews with Bryke, they were signed off on 2 seasons from the start, so I don't know about that. I just think they kept trying to create a "social villain" archetype and failing to actually address their arguments and ending up writing up some irrelevant shit to end it with Korra being the hero.
>Aang exploring energy bending
The thing is, Amon used blood-bending, not energy-bending. He just imitated the stance.
>he did it with Korra
A) Is a bullshit powerup
B) Doesn't make sense that somehow only her airbending was left
C) Was a bloodbending block, and should have been undone by Katara
>Korra jumping off the cliff would solve everything
&ltAll the following events
Of course it would LOL, but then there wouldn't be a series and like BadComedian says "И Слава, блять, богу"


>What happened to that?
IDK. The Drill (episode) was written by Bryan and Mike. The Last Stand (episode with going inside the mech) was written by Mike. I think they just didn't give a shit.

>True, but the situation is what led Hama to achieve it, desperate to use her waterbending to escape somehow she learned to pull it from the air and manipulate it in the body over at least a decade. Where is the motivation or time spent with Yakkone?

The Fire Nation had plenty of Waterbender prisoners like Hama.
>The thing is, Amon used blood-bending, not energy-bending. He just imitated the stance.
Yeah but they could have written it so that he was using energy bending and not do the stupid twist at all.
I agree with the stupid parts of Aang giving Korra the bending back, but I'm saying while he was still around surely he would have tried to give someone airbending? Like I dunno maybe his non-bending kid? He was around long enough to start rebuilding the Air Nomads, surely he could have tried to find a way to restore the bending instead of relying on having kids. Especially after he has two kids who can't airbend.

>Of course it would LOL

Not at all. The whole point of the avatar is to maintain balance and handle conflicts that come up in the world, not to cause problems. That's what was happening in season 1 where Korra was responding to problems that had nothing to do with her at first. Season 2 and 3 partly revolve around the Avatar and/or are direct consequences of her changing the world instead of maintaining balance. There are plenty of conflicts they could have come up with that needed Korra to solve them instead of being a non-issue if she was dead.


>plenty of Waterbender prisoners like Hama.
And only she ever achieved it, which is why I'm so incredulous of it happening.
> while he was still around surely he would have tried to give someone airbending?
Oh yeah I definitely agree. THey probably weren't smart enough to think of that though.
> The whole point of the avatar is to maintain balance and handle conflicts that come up in the world, not to cause problems
I know, but I mean Korra as a character is definitely the cause of more issues than the solution.


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>And I am Plank, Azula
&ltNail me hard. you oneeyed loser.


>So what are the children doing?

&ltCarpentry, apparently.


excuse me azula is more toned


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No she isn't. In pic 1 we see no tone of any particular kind. And while ATLA's style lacks detailed shading, it still depicts toned muscle and abs for TONED characters, as seen with Zuko (gif 2).


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After neckbeard alt-right idiot Sargon described Azula as an evil Hermione Granger I had a bit of a thought; Bellatrix Lestrange of Harry Potter really reminds me of Azula in many aspects, including her progression over the series. Given that Azula appeared first in 2005, 2 years after Book 5 was published, I'd say it would be likely that there was some influence, given Brykes age and ideology.

Suffice to say I was not wholly surprised that a few others may have had the same idea though many Azula fans - (especially those who read the comics or nitpicked details of her underlying insecurities) - tend to try and justify her*.



On the note of justifying her or portraying Azula in deth with accuracy, I surprisingly find the fanwork crossover Black Flame Blue Fire, to be a very good depiction of Azula; broken, insecure and clearly traumatized in some way, but also fundamentally evil in a way that was almost impossible to repair - very similar to Tom Marvolo Riddle and Bellatrix Lestrange actually, especially given her obsession with Sasuke, who is depicted as remorseless and brutal (if offset by his internal turmoil).

I would guess in Rowling's 100% canon Cursed Child revisions Azula could also be Delphi, the child Lestrange had in secret with Voldemort who later attempted to stop him from destroying himself by going back in time.

Incidentally, Rowling, Brian, and Mike are all writers who make me ponder whether their original work was sheer fluke or somehow plagiarized. I guess success sometimes breeds total disillusionment with reality, even when they have the comparison of their own creation.

As a side note, I wouldn't mind seeing Azula go at it with Bellatrix.


Bryke had Aaron Ehasz writing the series arcs. They and Rowling were both corrupted by being too online before they went on to write the garbage later installments.


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>Part of Kuvira's prison term involves being required to pose for the prisons official bikini calendar.
Not a bad deal, good way to retain popularity with at least some people.


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>As a side note, I wouldn't mind seeing Azula go at it with Bellatrix
They're both insane fighters so it would make for a cool cat-fight. That phrase could also be taken a different way (pic 2)

Unlike, say, Naruto-verse - where even academy students can move like blurs when they try - the speed of most Avatar characters is just superhuman (partially due to cartoon physics) with things like Zuko cleaving huge stone boulders with his swords and element-based speed boosts.

Bellatrix is shown to be physically capable and durable:
- Throwing a knife with accuracy at a disapparating Dobby and landing the hit dead center
- Restraining Hermione while carving Mudblood in her arm
- Disregarding flying rock shards and being dismissive of a Crucio by anyone other than Voldemort
Her spell-casting and over-all dueling capabilities are highly regarded
- Beats multiple aurors and killed the highly skilled (if distracted) Sirius
- Toyed with Harry like nothing forcing him to hide and stall
- Was fast enough to curse several wizards including a were-wolf (who have increased reflexes) within seconds before any of them could even react
Unfortunately there are few feats given her depiction only appearing in Book/Movie 5 and being a Secondary Antagonist.
Etc.: https://old.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/ar1psr/respect_bellatrix_lestrange_harry_potter_books/

Azula has excellent form, abilities and fearlessness I would dare say surpassing her own father in skill, if not power.

All things considered however Azula's fire is negated by several forms of defense on part of Bellatrix.
- Flame-freezing charm (makes heat and flames harmless)
- Protego (works on physical and energy attacks)
- Aguamenti (water is a hard counter to fire)
- Transfigured or conjured walls to block attacks
- Apparating out of harm's way
- Killing curse and in fact any spell are all easy for Bellatrix to spam (and has) and fire won't block them unless it's that very specific fire-shield*
- Disillusioning herself to be near-invisible
- Fiendfyre burns away anything and cannot be put out except by a caster who can control it (Bellatrix can)

Azula's best bet is the lightning and maybe that fire-shield of hers, since its power and speed are much harder to block or dodge, BUT it is more taxing and has less area of effect. She's fast, but not fast enough to avoid being cursed, unlike a faster character like Kakashi. Of course she would still try her best, her pride and arrogance would allow no less, but she would have to be constantly dodging and throwing out attacks and would eventually fuck up and get hit with something nasty. Spells tend to fly slow, but certainly no slower than bending attacks.

Honestly an earth bender would be a much better counter to Bellatrix, since they can outright block spells and attack from below and with solid projectiles, with a water-bender being a close second.

*That fire shield is totally a rip-off of the Hyuuga Kaiten technique.


Good sir,
the teenage royal academy alumna lightning bending martial-artist princess running around the world like a pre-industrial James Bond has a tight tummy and you can't convince me otherwise.


Is Ehasz /ourguy/? He seems to be what kept A:TLA from not being lib propaganda like book one of LOK


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What I don't understand is the shallow comparisons between Kuvira and Azula, because "muh fascist/monarchist ruler gurl"
The two women are on opposite ends of the spectrum, socially, ideologically, politically and mentally
>Started off as a literal adopted peasant with slight advantages
>Grew up with a set of ethics and beliefs that clashed with the idea of monarchy
>Acts logically* and engages in harsh realpolitik to re-establish order, peace and start rebuilding her nation.
>Trainer her skills at earth/metal bending all her life serving as a soldier and perfected them in combat
>Has to acquire resources, land and men through skilled politics, diplomacy and force
>Pragmatic, strict (but willing to be fair and give chances), mature and logical
She uses violence as a final solution, not a go to option
*The mech thing is a literal end-season asspull

>Arrogant and born into royalty
>Disdainful for anyone not royal or elite
>Skills come from being a literal prodigy and being handed training on a platter
>Given anything she wants no matter the expense
>Sadistic, manipulative, unforgiving and narcissistic
Despite a commanding tone and superficial logic, she is very immature in retrospect.

Honestly Azula's obvious mutual disdain for Kuvira would be obvious, as is most plainly seen in how she addresses Long Feng after the coup of Ba Sing Se, asserting that one is born into rule from a ruling class and does not scrabble and fight for power. Similarly, Kuvira's disdain for royalty and it's indolent divine right-to-rule ideology is seen with her attitude to Wu and later Suyin's hypocrisy at Zaofu. Their only similarities is charisma, but whilst Kuvira's is logically sound even if fear-enforced, Azula's is entirely based on enforcing fear of 'the superiors'. Azula is a mad queen (pic 2 related) while Kuvira is a dictatorial leader.


Yeah, the pic is absolutely right about Azula being immature. I thought it was blindingly obvious considering, you know, the finale of the previous season which was about exactly the same thing. Zhao wanted to kill the moon because he thought he was bigger than a force of nature, and his hubris destroyed him. The tides are controlled by the moon. The scene is drawing a direct parallel to Zhao by having Azula disregard the tides.


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>The scene is drawing a direct parallel to Zhao by having Azula disregard the tides.
Damn that's actually a pretty good comparison.
Azula, the continuator of Zhao's arrogance. The only difference is that Zhao has no control whatsoever, while Azula is more precise.

Also Korra seems to be very much like Zhao as well, ironic for a water-bender. I was actually interested to see his spirit wandering in Korra. One of the few good moments of the show.


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I revel in this thread being mostly made up by effort-posts, intelligent debate, good images/gifs/videos, fun lewds and more.


It fits the larger themes about the Fire Nation too. Other officers and of course the war itself are comically narcissistic although not inaccurate to their inspirations IRL.
>Also Korra seems to be very much like Zhao as well, ironic for a water-bender. I was actually interested to see his spirit wandering in Korra. One of the few good moments of the show.
Korra being a disappointment aside, exploring more stereotype-defying characters was a promising idea. That and the mixing of cultures. The spirit world was probably the lest awful part of the world building and it made me wish the had fleshed out the cosmology more. Even though it's a big part of the plot it's all very vague how it actually works. Pretty wasteful to bring back Iroh and Zhao just to go "hey do you remember them?"


>The spirit world was probably the lest awful part of the world building and it made me wish the had fleshed out the cosmology more
Same. The Avatar Wan 'worldbuilding' made it painful, given how reliant on Asian myths the prior spirit glimpses we saw in ATLA were. The spirit vine rubbish felt like some bad Wapanese hentai made by a weeb.




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Would you marry Azula if she was real?
If I had a choice? No
&ltNo choice
>marry her
>on our wedding night after she falls asleep, sneak away and leave the capital city in the dead of night
>catch a boat to the Earth Kingdom
>become a refugee to Ba Sing Se
>eventually meet pic 2 related
>fall in love, and then move to a quiet hamlet in the rural EK far from all the fighting and death and politics
>live together happily and start a family
The end

Of course, given that Azula is an utter psycho. This might convince Azula to bulldoze her way through Ba Sing Se where she eventually captures you and tortures your wife for months via traditional methods, (And if we're being true to actual monarchies, numerous rapings both by animals and criminals of various pedigrees of depraved). All the while you're forced to watch. Eventually, if you don't die, you'd will be cast off into the Fire Nation prison system all by yourself for as long as you live for daring to reject Azula… or executed.


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Honestly though, I hate that Jin and Zuko didn't go anywhere. While I understand the plot reasons of Zuko going with Azula, I honestly wonder how interesting it would be if Azula never entered Ba Sing Se and Zuko lived his life with Jin and Iroh, peacefully. 

Zuko and Jin in my opinon would be a great couple due to the fact that she was more kind to Zuko and was a romantic relationship that helped him move on from the sad past he had. This relationship would have been a factor to Zuko not betraying his uncle and maybe not going back to the Fire Nation with Mai which I feel like he was forced to decide yes. This could also prove that Earthbenders and Firebenders can live in Harmony and prevent the Harmony Restoration Movement from ever happening. In someways the relationship would essentially be similar to the "deserter settles down with people of the enemy to live a peaceful life away from war.

However from a writing perspective, to quote a good post, What I loved about that episode is that it was so life like and real. Sometimes those people pass through your life. They are not meant to stay but they are meant to be profound. Zuko had a one off connection with this girl that he will always remember. He will understand that it was not supposed to be a relationship but a moment to learn from and cherish. I am not upset they did not work out because if the writers took it that direction they would have forced a relationship that was never supposed to be. Their paths crossed for a night. Their trajectories were never going to align. Zuko gave someone something meaningful, he acted selflessly and with love. This happens in real life, we connect with people this way, not often… But when we need it the most.



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Speaking of Jin, a common fanon is that Grandma Yin from Korra is in fact Jin.
User MooJin explains;
I always guessed that Jin was around Zuko's age given that they went on a date. Jin's age was never stated nor when she was born, so it's up to the fans to decide how old they think she is. For argument's sake, let's say she is Zuko's age: Zuko was born in 83 AG. When was Yin born? 83 AG. Timeline adds up.

If Jin were to become a grandma at age 91, I could see her looking like Yin, after all people look a lot different when they're older, and the resemblances are there.

It would also make sense for Jin to not care that her child, San, marry someone with ancestry from the fire nation, Naoki, since she herself dated the prince, who would later become Fire Lord. Though not really addressed in the show, I wouldn't be shocked if there was a lot of racism when it came to "mixed" marriages, especially between the Earth Kingdom and Fire Nation, who fought the most during the 100 year war. Have it be from occupied Earth Kingdom citizens not wanting to assimilate with those who invaded, or Fire Nation citizens who might view those of the Earth Kingdom as conquered, and therefore lesser, people.

Never made this connection myself, but I would've really liked it had the show's creators intended this. Unfortunately, I don't think they did. They could've named Yin-Jin, easily, but either they didn't want to or didn't think about it. I assume it's the latter. It would've been a really nice continuity nod to the fans who noticed, and nice to see what happened to Jin. It also wouldn't have affected the overall story or plot, and would've been a nice subplot involving mixed marriages.


Just murder her before you leave lmao. If you have the oppourtunity to stick a knife in her throat and pass it up it's like not killing Hitler.


Killing her would be a task in and of itself given her abilities. Besides her murder would be an equal reason to be chased after.


you guys realize that like most of the Gaang are nobles?


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&ltA literal monk who was only going to get special treatment because "Avatar" and who ends up being the figurehead of what is essentially a terrorist group
&ltchildren of a tribal chief. Live literally no different to anyone else in the village, unlike Northern Water Tribe people.
>Toph Bei Fong
&ltblind, coddled child of nobles who abandoned her title and prefers living and working with her hands
&ltliteral animals
&lttrained warriors of Kyoshi island, who defend their country
&ltbanished prince who found no satisfaction in his "honor" and actively helped a coup against his dictator of a father.
Literally only 2 of the members can be called "nobles" and both joined later and are class-traitors. Zuko is the only one who actually became the Fire Lord, with Toph continuing to live how she wanted.

If you're talking about ATLA in general, then yes, they are monarchist in every sense of the word, which reflects the cultural inspirations these countries and peoples were modeled off of and is part of the fantasy setting.


Why the fuck are you nerds doing some materialistic examination of a kids show? The show doesn’t accurately simulate how real humans would be in every situation, it’s just a fun show that tells a good story, leave it at that.


so technically speaking, chiefdom seems hereditary, sokka and katara would be south water tribe royals, toph was still born to nobles, zuko never dropped his title, I'm not criticising the show, and most was a hyperbole, but it's still funny when you think about it


True, I'm just pointing out that there are caveats to it. And besides, fantasy tends to go for monarchic states.


Who are you specifically replying to? We're just having discussion m8.


Toph's parents appear to be wealthy merchants not nobles. The Southern Water Tribe seems to have a primitive/clan structure. By the time of Korra they have changed, but by all appearances in ATLA the Southerners are very egalitarian and the role of chief is probably more like being military thing. Hakoda leads the war party and doesn't seem to wield any other kind of power in contrast to how things are up north. Sokka even remarks how Yue wouldn't be interested in him because he's a "peasant." Azula refers to him and Katara as peasants too.

Zuko is the one actual example of nobility, but he's a sort of class traitor who's primarily concerned with stopping an imperialist war machine, so he probably should get a pass.

All bets are off with Korra though.


ATLA does a god job of representing a variety of political systems though. And it's openly pretty critical of the hierarchical ones. The northern water tribe is socially backward. Earth Kingdoms are full of corruption. The Fire Nation is doing genocide and colonialism. The societies that aren't portrayed with glaring flaws are the most egalitarian or non-hierarchical ones.
>Southern Water Tribe
>Air Nomads
>Kyoshi Island
>Foggy Swamp Tribe
>random earth kingdom villages


so is atla anarcho-pilled


None of them are explicitly or implicitly anarchist, just that they appear to be fairly egalitarian and whatever hierarchy exists is not prominently displayed. Given the Zaheer plot it's probably safe to say if there's an anarcho tendency in the show it's accidental.


Why is it always about the anarchsits for you peeps?


In the episode where they go to Ba Sing Se, Toph's family name was enough to get her to a party with the Earth King, as she was recognized as a noble in status.
>All bets are off with Korra


I checked the wiki and you are correct. The Beifongs are nobility, although apparently they are bankers which suggests maybe they got there from accumulating wealth as merchants. I remember the show always emphasized their wealth more than any political authority so that's why I didn't think they were nobles. Pretty dumb in retrospect since the flying boar is established as their house sigil.


it's a joke, atla doesn't like things being too heirarchical, anarchists don't like hierarchy, thus atla = anarchist


is korra a noble?


Her dad Tonraq is chief of the Southern Water Tribe but it's ambiguous if this position involves a separate class from normal people. It didn't appear to with Katara and Sokka being described as peasants even though their dad Hakoda was chief. Even Hakoda seemed to be chief as a function of being a good leader vs having any official authority. Nobody treats Korra like nobility that I can recall other than maybe Unalaq as a ploy. Tonraq was nobility in the North (first son of the Chief and heir to the title) but he was disgraced and banished. Considering that he became Chief in the South as an immigrant banished from the north implies the southerners don't care about class or even citizenship.

IIRC some characters referred to Hakoda specifically as "war chief" which in some cultures that inspired the Water Tribes is not so much the leader of the tribe as a whole but a position relevant only to battle. Sometimes there is no actual chief (maybe some elders who are respected), and sometimes there's a separate authority figure who handles internal affairs. There's a lot of variation here. I don't think Hakoda ever acts in a regular political capacity in the South but Tonraq consults with other members of the tribe to decide policy. I think it's only relevant to the civil war though.

Her being Avatar is probably more significant since everyone respects the position.


So Kuvira is a left social-nationalist? Like the Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party (Syria branch), PSUV (Venezuela), ZANU-PF (Zimbabwe), FSLN (Nicaragua) etc?


Kuvira explicltly does ethnic cleansing, do any of the parties you mentioned also do ethnic cleansing?


>Kuvira explicltly does ethnic cleansing
Wait what? Who did she genocide? I watched Korra a long while ago


No, she isn't. There isn't a single actual scene of her going through with "Ethnic Cleansing" or any other such rubbish. It was a claim made by her direct opponents (Suyin Bei Fong and her cronies).


Roughly speaking yes, though in many ways I'd also place it as similar to the USSR, which is what is argued in prior Kuvira posts >>2889 >>2888


On the topic of metal bending and the Suyin fight:
This demonstrates that Kuvira can turn metal into sharp blades, which could potentially allow for the possibility of liquification of metal.
To liquefy metal the bender will have to a lavabender as well. Metals melting points can go to extreme degrees. A bender needs to move the molecules in particles in the metal at ridiculous speeds.
The second way would be the Yun method of liquefying earth.



Korra's character arc is basically that she is complete shit at being the avatar because everything about her personality and skills are completely wrong for it. IDK what the the fuck they thought they were doing with this other than sUbVeRtiNg eXpEcTaTiOnS. Aang was good at being avatar so Korra has to suck or something.

But then instead of trying to git gud at her job she just does her own thing and instead of restoring balance she completely changes several things.
>merges physical and spirit world
>restores airbending
>leads to reformation of Earth Kingdom into Earth Democracy or something
>creates a third spirit portal (to where though? didn't the spirit world merge with the physical world?)


Remember the Zaheer plot didn't have Ehasz so that can explain a big shift in how things are presented.

As this guy thorough explains that Brian and Michael don't understand political ideologies which makes me thinking Ehasz was the one keeping everything together in atla.




>As this guy thorough explains that Brian and Michael don't understand political ideologies which makes me thinking Ehasz was the one keeping everything together in atla.
Good point. Maybe Ehasz also had the wisdom to not make the show so overtly about politics the way Korra fumbled with.


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one of the fun facts about Avatar TLA is that Azula is actually like fucking 13 in the show, which is funny because I think most of the other people who watched the show thought that she was Zuko's older sister. I am p sure that was kinda deliberate, coupled with Azula's personality disorders and the like she has been groomed to really try and break herself down and build herself up into whatever position needs filling in the royal family, and in Zuko's absence she became the heir apparent to the fire lord's throne and tries to be fairly adult even though she is still a child, and fairly obviously one at that when you realize a lot of her immaturity. hell, her intro is literally her telling her crew under her command to ignore the tides despite the fact it poses a very direct danger to her as much as her own men, something that she doesn't really register, saying instead that her crew should "fear me more than the tides", but does she think the fucking tides fear her??? She also demonstrates hilarious impatience, even at minor imperfection, and generally lacks emotional stability, though she knowingly compensates this by trying to emotionally manipulate others. Though you can argue these things can be as much personality disorders as they can be from being an unexperienced child, in reality I think a big message the show is giving off is that even though Azula was the homeborn prodigy, gifted at birth and schooled within the institutions of the fire nation to produce a wholly insular view of perfection, Zuko in contrast learns from the land and the different people and cultures he meets, creating a more wholistic and complete understanding of the world, and in turn firebending's place within it, and in turn elevates himself from a naturally lackluster firebender into one that can demonstrably defeat Azula.

Its showing that Zuko's emotional maturity and experience is what allowed him to elevate his own powers, that understanding of the world gave him the depth of experience that allowed for him to improve his own skills, rather than azula who spent her time only honing the skills she already mastered, and in turn really never improving much beyond her natural talents. Immaturity - the rejection of outside lessons and ideas in favor of insular and self-centered understanding of the world, was what made her stagnate while her lame duck brother rose above her, and she could never really accept that fact - she had always prided herself on that natural talent, cherished it like it was a birthrite and mandate, and saw it as the means and really an ends to building her own power. But, that immaturity was not something that would outwardly help her, so she did a lot to cover it up, makeup and big worded speeches and acting authoritatively even in conditions she didn't really understand, like when she commanded her fucking boat to go against the tides, which is of course a child's approximation of what maturity was.

But Azula wasn't like, totally without redeeming moments. Though she is a frigid fucking bitch, I think at the end of the day she still had a lot of value built up in Zuko, in the same capacity as Zuko was a way for her to build up her self-esteem for her natural talents, but also that Zuko was the only real link between her and her mother (mind, Azula thought her mother hated her because she tried to emulate her father more, and he was a cruel asshole that her mom was always disapproving of, but she was especially disapproving when Azula tried to copy him), Zuko was a kind of surrogate maternal care to her since Zuko did take more from her mom in being compassionate and caring for the people around and under him (even going out of his way and nearly risking his own life to save one of his crewmen even if it meant the Avatar escaping), which would extent to Azula, while not being as immensely disapproving of Azula's actions as her own mother was (Zuko even tries to emulate Azula a little bit sometimes).

This is why I like that specific scene from the show - its like the literal only time I think Azula is ever seen without her makeup. It was a scene where Azula, normally a fucking frigid bag of dicks, talks to Zuko about the political danger of meeting with Iroh in jail - something that, if she instead exposed to everyone else, would gain her much in the way of power since it would delegitimize Zuko - but instead she warns him, without any makeup, any façade of being an adult. I think to Azula, Zuko was pretty much the only person she could be comfortable with being around without having the big show of being the adult woman preparing to be the queen, though by this point she probably has a case of wearing the mask so much that it was becoming her face, and that the facade was slowly poisoning her own personality. But, still, its like the only real moment where there is a willing vulnerability shown by Azula.

And like, you have to really think about the dynamic of the moment, the actions of Azula relative to what she usually says and does and appears, how her family live would relate to her personal growth, and a bunch of other stuff to kinda realize it. Its a subtle way to convey a lot of depth about an entirely fictional character that shows a lot of implied character development without needing to cut away to a flashback - and its not actually even in service to the story or anything, its all just a really neat background detail you can pick out if you make those connections.


also the fire lord after zuko was a fire mommy milf change my mind


How the fuck is azula 13? She looks 20.


Being insane can age you a lot. Or so I’ve heard.


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>I think most of the other people who watched the show thought that she was Zuko's older sister
This is the first time I am learning this isn't true. According to the wiki Zuko was 16 and Azula 14 at the time of A:TLA.
>she had always prided herself on that natural talent, cherished it like it was a birthrite and mandate
This is actually a really interesting parallel between the whole divine right ideology and present day "gifted" kids who tend to have the same kind of problem.

>This is why I like that specific scene from the show - its like the literal only time I think Azula is ever seen without her makeup.

I think you're right, and it's funny how jarring it is. It's also not just about her being adult or being vulnerable - the lack of makeup makes her look more like Zuko too. The show's relationship with makeup is actually pretty interesting. It comes up multiple times, sometimes explicitly, like in Tales of Ba Sing Se when Katara and Toph get a makeover. The other cool example was from early in book 1 where we have a parallel between the Kyoshi makeup and the water tribe makeup highlighting the pretty arbitrary difference between masculine and feminine signifiers. It also establishes makeup as a motif associated with power.


Emotionally maybe, but it doesn't cause puberty to happen faster. I have known 14 year olds (male and female) who looked like adults though so it's not that unusual. Also IIRC people matured faster in the old days.


>sexualizing minors
Kill yourselves, degenerates.


no, is ok, cuties proved that CP is legal now


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>the lack of makeup makes her look more like Zuko too
Speaking of, it's fairly obvious, however the whole inability to groom herself properly prior to her Coronation as Fire Lord and the subsequent face off with Zuko was fairly symbolic of how she was deranged and losing control (pic related).
Also I keep forgetting she was so young. I thought she was Zukos age and keep forgetting she's not.


Nice effort post
>does she think the fucking tides fear her?
This made me laugh. Also related to pic 2 from >>9149
>only time I think Azula is ever seen without her makeup
Yeah this and some other smaller moments where she shows hurt feelings (for a moment) really demonstrate her humanity


Top kek


I mean we saw that idea already >>2811
Also Izumi sounds REALLY Japanese a name. It's a few letters away from Izanami or Izanagi or Izuku
Already posted >>4949


Another example of the makeup motif is the painted lady.


>the whole inability to groom herself properly prior to her Coronation as Fire Lord and the subsequent face off with Zuko was fairly symbolic of how she was deranged and losing control (pic related).
It also makes logical sense because as a princess she had attendants to groom her (as we see when she fires them out of paranoia). It works both symbolically and literally as a case of reality ensuing. I think the people who say it's a cheesy part of her breakdown are unable to relate to her as a noble who's not used to doing these things for herself.


>According to the wiki Zuko was 16 and Azula 14
cut me some slack I was one year off lmao


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>>10363 (me)
something I also thought was cool was how the show not only had Aang experience the four elements in relation to being the Avatar, but also had the co-protagonist Zuko experience the four elements in much the same way. obviously in the capacity in which he is chasing Aang who, bar the first season, spends most of his time trying to figure out how to do the bending of that element in the respective lands of said element, but also in more interpersonal relationships he forms throughout the show, and through the places he goes. Of course he fights with, beats, occasionally gets humbled by, befriends, betrays, and then reconnects and makes up for it with Katara, which is a subplot of the show with so much nuance you could really make up its own effort post on it, but also through interactions he has with the Northern Water tribe and his actions in contrast to Zhao (though granted, pretty much guided by Iroh) where he learns a lot about the spiritual aspects of balance in the world and even shows fairly unexpected mercy in trying to save Zhao, who had done nothing but fuck him over and attempt to kill him and his own crew. Of course he expands on this learning in chapter 2 more when they are on the run, and Iroh tries to expand on the necessity for not only inner balance, but the importance of understanding other elements in order to bend your own element well in lightning-bending. Lightning-bending is not something that is strictly inherent to fire-bending, at least to the cultural conception of it by the fire nation. It instead relies on a personal balance of the self and fluid movements of the body to channel things which is much more in the vein of waterbending - literally showing the ability to take the aspects of another culture (arguably two since the N and S water tribes are hella different but thats a digression) and translate those principles into something usable in fire-bending. Of course season 2 is also where Zuko learns a fuckload about earthbending. "But anon", I hear you shout, "Zuko doesn't fuck around with earthbenders much!" And you are partially right in that, but mind something Toph remarks to Aang early on during his training. How earthbending is reliant largely on stance and stability, using those as the basis for your form to move and shape the earth. And, of course, season 2 Zuko is on the run as a fugitive of the fire nation, he cannot firebend. So what does he primarily use to fight? Dual sabers, and of course sabers rely on a form of martial artistry which focuses around stability and stance as the basis for a fluid form of attacking. So, he experiences much the same principles of Earthbending through his use of swords, all while also being in the Earth kingdom itself. And of course he has a relationship with Jin, lives a long while in Ba Sing Se, generally absorbs the culture and how the fire nation's war has changed society for them, so on. Though its nothing as apparent as lightning-redirecting powers, I would say that both the principles of earthbending he kinda learned through swordsmanship and the cultural learning he had from the Earth Kingdom was pivotal in reshaping his idea of not only firebending, but also the fire nation's place in the world as a power. And, of course, airbending came in when he became the fire-mentor for Aang and the show is even more direct about that aspect than the fucking lightning redirection so I'll not waste your time with the specifics of that.

That ultimately is what I meant by Zuko learning and growing from his experiences and giving his firebending the strength that finally outplayed Azula. While he likely did just become a better firebender overall through constant practice, he as well learned different ways to apply firebending through the inspection of other elements and how they functioned to form a more holistic understanding of the elements.


You guise make Avatar sound so cool and interesting but all I remember when watching some episodes was teen melodrama and fairly average action scenes where no one ever gets hurt or dies.


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Not just Zuko and Aang either. Katara and Sokka learn from the different elements and nations. Obviously with Sokka it's non-bending but he picks up fighting styles and technology from all over the place. Katara ends up borrowing principles from other bending styles too, see pics.

The kids being so high level makes more sense than people realize, because like he avatar they combine and synthesize the bending styles and can use techniques that nobody else would imagine. Almost all of the people in the setting are insular enough that they only know their own style and the style of the people they're usually fighting. Meanwhile Aang usually stomps even with just air because nobody alive (except Bumi) has even seen an airbender much less fought one. It's fairly subtle but a clear argument in favor of cultural exchange.


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All the choreography was meticulously based on actual martial arts forms and animated beautifully without excessive (or lack) of detail. The characters behaved like real people.
>no one ever gets hurt
Physically yeah, little hurt outside of Katara's hand-burns, Zuko's facial scarring and Aang's back scar from lightning (and Jet's offscreen death).
This is because it was a kids cartoon and thus was PG. I agree some Naruto-tier blood and burns would probably have helped in impact, but that's not a necessity for it to be impactful.


In a way Iroh is essentially an Avatar without the ability to use the other 3 elements (pic related). While Aang is functionally the Avatar and learns each bending style, Iroh embodies the spirit and concept of the Avatar with his statements about balance


Another good point about the Make-up, nice.


>fairly subtle but a clear argument in favor of cultural exchange
This reminds me of one dude on twitter who pointed out that 'Cultural Appropriation' was largely stupid because Culture was meant to be shared with people.


>'Cultural Appropriation' was largely stupid because Culture was meant to be shared with people.
It depends. One of the comics actually addresses the topic when other people start copying Aang's tattoos and he's offended. In the actual show you see this a bit when the Mechanist is damaging the air temple. Aang's happy to share air nomad culture in general, like the ideas, food and temples, but he's also protective of his culture being diluted or damaged.


IDK what to think about Bryke departing the Netflix reboot. I expect the Netflix version to be dogshit for various reasons, but given how Korra went I wonder if it's for better or worse that they left the project.


This isn't 8chan. The whole site is left wing. There's no place to put a retarded /pol/ colony.


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>There's no place to put a retarded /pol/ colony
Let me repeat: I am the OP of this thread and have contributed ~25 posts in this thread, of which the majority have been large, effort/discussion posts. Nowhere in this thread do you see "hurr muh jewish Bryke lol" or other rubbish.

I AM NOT /pol/ nor have I ever been. E;R may be a /pol/fag and do some dumb jew jokes, but none of it is ever unironic. It's all memes that are never taken seriously, and the fact that people are still mad over it is pathetic, when his commentary on the series is accurate and fairly decent.

/hobby/ is a board where politics are second-fiddle to media and its discussion. That's why we can have hot takes like "Palapatine is 'le epic comrade'" because everyone except brainless prudes understand that we're not serious about it, and that its just chatting about a character and some interesting thoughts. Nobody here thinks of this stuff unironically. Nobody is using Harry Potter or LOTR or Star Wars in utter real political context. FFS a major discussion in this thread is that Korra attempts to insert Real World Politics into a show with utterly different societal development, but I digress.

E;R has never made an unironic 'le jew conspiracy' post in his videos. His closest are semi-sarcastic parts about how Rebecca Sugar and JJ Abrams are jews but he never expands on this and it is such a fleeting moment as to be less than 1% of the content in his reviews.

So cool your jets, put aside your ideological fervor and just enjoy something for what it is; stop taking things seriously.

Finally, for the record, the community (/leftypol/) makes plenty of politically incorrect jokes, including about jews and minorities (you only have to look at the 'uighur' wordfilter as an example). We aren't reddit nor should be. You are more than welcome to sit around with your nose in the air and feel super ideological pure, but keep it to yourself or at least make actually legitimate arguments and not dismissive non-arguments like "muh E;R, ignored!!!"
>inb4 'others have said the same without le /pol/'
Other than Lily Orchard, NOBODY - at the time of posting the video links in the first posts - had made the same extensive breakdown of Korra than E;R. Everyone else was busy doubling back on themselves every 5 minutes to keep rabid fangirls from reeeing in the comments about "how dare you insult 'yas queen slay' Korra". Some other people have made good analyses of Korra since the post was made, but they were not available at the time of posting, or were unknown.

Rant End, now lets NOT argue more about pointless bullshit and post links from ~9 months ago.


You make a good point.
>when other people start copying Aang's tattoos and he's offended
which is A) Why I said "largely" stupid
and B) a bit out of character. Aang, over the series really matured even while retaining his pacifism. He would be more likely to go and explain the full meaning of the markings and why it isn't a good idea to wear them while not a full Air Nomad monk, than get mad over it.
>the Mechanist is damaging the air temple
True, but they do it much better than the comics, by demonstrating that while he appreciated their designs and culture, they were, as far as known, extinct and the refugees that made up his group needed improved living and that meant sacrificing some art. It was happenstance that Aang survived and arrived there during construction. In a way it is similar to how the USSR sometimes tore down historical buildings like churches to make way for homes and better city planning.


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Reposting a hot take.

There is no way that Avatar ends without some sort of Hyper-Nationalist army revolt against Zuko (Like Fire nation Yukio Mishima trying to shoot Zuko or something) or some massive genocide occurring in the mixed race / Mongrelfied section of the earth kingdom fated to become "The republic" led by Earth Kingdom nationalist feeling betrayed by their own government and I don't give a fuck what the comics say.

Imagine your just some fire nation grunt or even something slightly higher up like a colonel or general. After a literal 100 years war you have finally won and created your world spanning empire but literally a month later as your celebrating your victory the firelord basically dies offscreen and his totally pussywhipped and cucked son becomes firelord, Immediately gives away all of your victories and literally abandons a section of your population to probably be killed by the nation you have just beaten in fair combat in every measure.

Zuko is getting stabbed to death or poisoned by his palace guards and / or his body being thrown into a river by an angry mob

Now imagine your a earth kingdom citizen maybe some farmer displaced by the fire nation immigrants, Someone who was being worked to death in one of their prison factories, Someone whose whole village got burnt down. Now imagine learning after you supposedly "win" the war that you have now consigned a section of your country to continue being ruled by the fire nation settlers (It does not fucking matter what Aang and Zuko call it, that's all that 99% of earth kingdom citizens view it as) and the fire nation will not have to pay ANY dues for what they did, your King and the "hero" the avatar is totally compliant with this.

The earth kingdom is having Heavenly kingdom tier genocidal civil war


you give the comics too little credit, the fire nation and earth kingdom very nearly go into war v2 over the conquered territories of the earth kingdom, zuko over protecting both his people and the inter-racial children who developed a fire nation identity and the earth kingdom over their lost land. its basically only avoided by becoming a dual administrative region with some regional determination which eventually evolves into the republic city we see in korra.


I remember there being a post on some website where E;R claimed the best way to convert normalfags to being a neonazi is to just make jokes and then at some point drop your jokes or some shit.
I wonder how well that actually goes though.


>E;R may be a /pol/fag and do some dumb jew jokes, but none of it is ever unironic.
I invoke death of the author tbh.


Probably the biggest hurdle for neonazis to cross is desensitizing people to the idea and memes do that pretty alright I guess.


Honestly the Fire Nation wasn't developed well enough to say how things would go. It didn't seem like any of the soldiers were particularly motivated by hate or some other animus. The war had been going on for almost all living memory, so it's not a stretch that the common people or military would be ok with the war ending. I mean, all of them had grown up counting war casualties.
>the fire nation will not have to pay ANY dues for what they did, your King and the "hero" the avatar is totally compliant with this.
They don't get into the terms of surrender or anything like that because the show isn't about the mechanics of power that way.


alright so question, why would the fire nation develop faster than any other nation, from a materialist standpoint? they are a volcanic island nation which historically means that they would have less landmass for food production which means a weaker division of labor, they are isolated from the mainland so they get less in the way of technological innovation from overseas, and their disjointed islands setup would mean they also have less technological spread even in their own country.

from a bending perspective, fire and air bending are the 2 most available, since you can do either in nearly any environment, unlike earth or water which needs raw material around to do so. however, water-bending could easily be used to create powerful water turbines which could generate power and allow for a theoretical water tribe industrial revolution, and earthbending has the ability to track and unearth great quantities of ore and coal to process manually as well as the ability to basically mass-produce housing even pre-industrialy. between all of them I would frankly expect the earth kingdom to be the first to reach the industrial revolution because they could most easily modify the land to create conditions where food could be produced plentifully enough that they could build up a strong division of labor, and from there rush towards an industrial revolution without bending.


some good takes from Tumblr

> the atla fandom is such a good study of the effectiveness of imperialist propaganda in that so many fans have completely internalized the idea that air nomad culture is hippy dippy weakness that would actually have no real substantive place in the avatarverse, and you can see this in the number of post-finale fics (well written, amazingly intricate, incredibly well plotted fics!) intent on teaching aang a lesson about the futility of pacificism or cutting him down to size after his victory against ozai, driven by a belief that aang somehow had it easy or that his choices were childish and unrealistic. the idea that serious commitment to a buddhist-inspired philosophy could influence a hero’s actions is so far beyond the grasp of so many fans that you can sense their downright anger, even outrage, that such a philosophy was upheld as worth defending! the idea that aang as a hero was making deeply spiritual choices about how to end the war - and thereby upholding his duty as the the spiritual guide to the world - and that he deemed air nomad religious values worth upholding against the might of an imperialist nation, just completely eludes so many people. because it’s not flashy and badass and powerful i guess? idk idk idk but some of y’all are soooooo invested in loving the fire nation and discounting aang/ the air nomads in specific insidious ways and it’s…whew. frustrating, predicable, kinda scary.


> Yeah It’d be great if people in general could learn the difference between being weak and being pacifistic.

> A weak person physically can’t harm anyone. A pacifist can harm you but chooses not to. Aang almost killed Ozai in the Avatar State but he didn’t, not because he was too weak to kill Ozai (he was literally just about to do so) but because he felt it wasn’t the right thing to do.

> Aang isn’t the only one to do this. Zuko could have killed Ozai during the eclipse if he’d aimed his lightning at his father instead of away. Katara did it with Yon Rha where she had the perfect opportunity to kill her mother’s murderer but didn’t.

> Why does Aang get all the flack for doing the same? Because his reasoning was different?

> Some people are a bit too invested in a 12 year old murdering someone.


>why would the fire nation develop faster than any other nation, from a materialist standpoint?
Power, like in the physical sense. They can create fire out of thin air, which means they are able to heat things up more effectively. It's the same kind of benefit as having oil. Other benders can only move things around. Firebenders can create energy. They're insanely OP in that respect, even though fire has other limitations that make up for it in most (small scale contexts). Fire can't be used to build anything, and it just doesn't work underwater (unlike airbending which can make bubbles) or if it's too cold for the bender. It's also dangerous in ways that the others aren't. IMO the show did a great job making the elements balanced in a general sense but also giving them massive strengths and weaknesses that shape the whole society.

>water-bending could easily be used to create powerful water turbines

Problem is this is both unintuitive and inefficient. You need people to continuously power these turbines, when in reality you only set up such a thing at a natural source of water. They might be able to reshape rivers to this end, but just having people run the turbines is the same kind of thing as generating power by people riding bicycles. Also for it to scale at all you need to discover electricity.
>and earthbending has the ability to track and unearth great quantities of ore and coal
Only Toph is shown at first to have the tremorsense abilities, although earthbending obviously makes mining easier. Just because you have the resources doesn't mean you have the technology to work them, though. Prior to the development of ironworking, iron was not seen as particularly useful. It's too hard to work without sufficient heat, and usually full of impurities. Without the ability to metalbend, it's probably just not worth the effort for an earthbending culture to figure out advanced metallurgy since they can just send earthbenders into combat, and their "weapon" is just sitting around everywhere. It's sort of like mining asteroids to us. Sure it's possible in theory and it would be very useful, but the difficulty of it compared to the much easier alternatives means there's little incentive to try it.
>as well as the ability to basically mass-produce housing even pre-industrialy.
Waterbenders can also produce housing in the snow. Earthbenders being able to build things works as an explanation for why they are the largest and most populous nation (and it would help for digging canals for irrigation), but this doesn't get you far if your tech level is still pre-industrial and your economy is mostly subsistence agriculture.
>between all of them I would frankly expect the earth kingdom to be the first to reach the industrial revolution because they could most easily modify the land to create conditions where food could be produced plentifully enough that they could build up a strong division of labor
But why bother dividing labor if you can just keep expanding and finding new land to use and keep building houses perpetually? Based on what we see in the series, most of the land is wild. That means the Earth Kingdoms can just keep growing and following the same economic and political model. Given that they seem to be a bunch of mostly independent kingdoms loosely connected culturally, there's nothing pushing them to adapt to urbanization and a higher population density. The exception is Ba Sing Se, and they are relatively advanced. But they also seem to be fully self-sufficient and not engage in very much trade. As we see when the Gaang first arrives, the concentric rings show the division of labor, but because of the isolation (and perceived safety from the Fire Nation) there's nothing pressuring them to advance. The walls if anything provide a security that means they have less material reason to develop weapons technology. The kind of bureaucratic palace economy they have seems to involve less free trading (actually demonstrated in-show when the Cabbage Merchant has his cart smashed at customs), which also means that it's harder for the merchant class to emerge as a power and drive industrialization.


>not flashy and badass and powerful i guess?
It's definitely not that lol. They go out of their way to make Aang's spirituality flashy and badass and powerful. This author is making it about imperialism which isn't wrong but that's not the whole picture. Aang's views (and most of the show) is very obviously inspired by eastern philosophy and Buddhism, and the primary audience in the west are either actual Christians or at least have their worldview massively shaped by Christian values and philosophy, which is extremely incompatible with the kind of ideas in the show. Most of the audience grew up believing in the importance of cosmic hierarchies and military power. The Fire Nation is BY FAR the most familiar to western (US especially) audiences. And not just with their political structure and the obvious pledge of allegiance gag, but the whole premise of the war. Not just the fact that it's imperialism, but the justification given too - Sozin pitches the war to Roku as a very on the nose combination of manifest destiny and Bush-era nation building. He all but says they're going to "spread freedom." Paraphrasing, he said it's the Fire Nation's destiny to share their greatness with the rest of the world. On a subconscious level, the primary audience of the show has been primed to see the Fire Nation as sympathetic.
> Why does Aang get all the flack for doing the same? Because his reasoning was different?
IDK maybe it has something to do with the fact that Aang actually stuck to his principles from the start and all the others not killing was a choice they made in the moment. Zuko wasn't sure what he was going to do with Ozai and Katara was fully intending to merc Yon Rha. They both decided against it in the middle of a potentially killing blow. Aang was never going to do it, so him pulling back doesn't sUbVeRt ExPeCTaTiOnS and narratively it's kind of blue-balling or something.


I explained why there is focus on killing by Aang in my posts about the Lion Turtle Deus Ex Machina; They specifically focus on his dilemma of violating his principles of pacifism, and then just give him the ability to make a choice with an asspulled new ability, which isn't something uncommon, but still feels like a bit of a cop-out. This is in the same tier as Goku going Super Saiyan against Frieza, except unlike Energy Bending, that was talked about at length over the Namek Arc, while Energy Bending isn't even mentioned until the final couple episodes, thus we get a feeling of a copout >>2756 >>2810 >>2816 >>2817 >>2822

Additionally, his Avatar State against Ozai was an accidental unlock. A literal plot-device rock hit him in his lightning scar… why didn't toph's massage do that when she pounded his entire back with rocks? Plot. Why was the rock specifically in that spot to hit him? Plot. It's a bullshit move for an otherwise awesome scene.

Finally there is a saying; Pacifism is a coward patting themselves on the back.
It's one thing to be against violence or harm and thus seeking other methods, that is being a gentle soul. But outright refusing to fight seriously and be ready to kill because you're against it and refuse to budge is pathetic negligence. Making the hard decisions and dealing with them is the consequence of having power and leadership, and if you don't you are jeopardizing the lives of everyone behind you.


here is a decent video about the ending of avatar


I guess we might see a resurgence of Avatar stuff with the netflix release of the series


> Aang was never going to do it, so him pulling back doesn't sUbVeRt ExPeCTaTiOnS and narratively it's kind of blue-balling or something.
How so?
I actually like the way they did Aang’s ultimate refusal to kill Ozai, it reminded me of Luke’s refusal to kill Vader. Both flew into a blind rage and nearly killed the opponent, however they both realized before the final blow that killing really is a choice and each choose not to. Both Luke and Aang are told to follow a destiny but chose their own instead. I like how it goes down with Aang somewhat more, honestly, since the Avatar State actually DOES mind control people and thus Aang’s refusal to kill had to be strong enough to overpower the combined wills of all avatars that came before him.


Guess we are going to see a resurgence in Avatar.
<Nickelodeon is launching Avatar Studios, a new division to create original content spanning animated series and movies based on the world of Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra, the network announced Wednesday during ViacomCBS' Investor Day presentation. Original creators and executive producers Michael DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko will lead the studio as co-chief creative officers.
<The first project is already lined up: an animated theatrical film set to begin production this year.
Nick must have been seeing those Netflix numbers and realized what they were sitting on.


yeah, you really should /get/out


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>Lily Orchard
isn't that the person who made horsecock fan-fic

Unique IPs: 5

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