[ overboard / sfw / alt / cytube] [ leftypol / b / WRK / hobby / tech / edu / ga / ent / 777 / posad / i / a / R9K / dead ] [ meta ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
Captcha
Tor Only
Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)
Matrix   IRC Chat   Mumble   Telegram   Discord
ReturnCatalogBottom

File: 1622232000073.jpeg ( 19.03 KB , 474x314 , 4353454.jpeg )

 No.285223[Last 50 Posts]

Hello /leftypol/, we noticed an under-appreciation for the theory that upholds our political ideologies: As such, we have decided to revive the reading sticky! This thread will be dedicated to the sharing, discussing, and general banter about various leftist thinkers, theories, and political outlooks.

But, other than that, we believe there are other important reads that must be addressed, especially, for beginners and those just now getting into leftism.

Don't forget to check out >>>/edu/ for more reading and discussion!

———————
Common Right Wing Talking Points Debunks
——————–

Check out the /edu/ thread at
https://leftychan.net/edu/res/5576.html

Also see the relevant leftybooru tag
https://lefty.pictures/post/list/debunk/1
Add topics into the tag list to further narrow down your search!


———————
Introduction to Marxism Reading List - Thanks to the /read/ matrix room (https://app.element.io/#/group/+leftyread:matrix.org)
——————–

Absolute Beginners Tier:

'Principles of Communism' by Friedrich Engels
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm

'Three Source and Theree Component Parts of Marxism' by V.I. Lenin
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/mar/x01.htm

Not a book but Halim Alrah's youtube channel is good for the absolutely basics of Marxism but obviously not a replacement for reading
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGog4JPn5-W3_XIKccENysg

——————–
Marx and Engles Reading List
——————–

Tier 1:

'Manifesto of the Communist Party'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/index.htm

'Critique of the Gotha Programme'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/

'Socialism: Utopian and Scientific'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm

Tier 2:

'Wage Labour and Capital'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/

'Value, Price and Profit'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/

'Theses on Feuerback'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/theses/theses.htm

By this point you should have a good understanding of the basics of Marxism and are ready to branch out to other theorists and also read Capital.

Tier 3:

'Capital vol.1'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/

——————–
Lenin Reading List - By Moo (aka Zizekposter)
——————–

Lenin Essentials:

'State and Revolution'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/

'“Left-Wing” Communism: an Infantile Disorder'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/

'Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/

Petit Bourgeois Philistine Tier:

'What is to be done'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/witbd/

'The Proletarian Revolution and Renegade Kautsky'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1918/prrk/

'Two Tactics of Social Democracy in the Democratic Revolution'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/tactics/index.htm

ADHD Tier:

'Socialism and Religion'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/dec/03.htm

'Zizek's Introduction to Revolution at the Gates'
https://kabirabud.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/slavoj_zizek_repeating_leninbookfi-org.pdf

'Revolutionary Adventurism'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1902/sep/01.htm

——————–
MLM Reading List
——————–

Essentials:

Why MLM?
https://why-mlm.medium.com/why-mlm-af48aba14f8a

Marxism-Leninism-Maoism Basic Course
https://foreignlanguages.press/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/S01-MLM-Basic-Course-Revised-Edition-10th-Printing.pdf

'Continuity and Rupture: Philosophy in the Maoist Terrain'
https://libgen.lc/get.php?md5=a00646f118a3427ec19263021b3e84e1&key=06Q5Q1W5DFK8YOHU&mirr=1

Mao:

'On Practice & Contradiction'
https://marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-1/mswv1_16.htm
https://foreignlanguages.press/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/N04-On-Contradiction-Study-2nd.pdf

'On Guerrilla Warfare'
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/1937/guerrilla-warfare/index.htm

'On Protracted War'
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-2/mswv2_09.htm

China:

'Fanshen: A Documentary of Revolution in a Chinese Village'
http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=00F5750256E291B678E2A0039D3CF54E

'Red Star Over China' - Edgar Snow
http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=BD54E7C5F9CDE90E30BD0CB5E91F0049

'The Unknown Cultural Revolution' - Dongpin Han
http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=2495C43CFA7395ACA45CA812A304A701

Peru:

Interview With Chairman Gonzalo
https://the-red-flag.org/en/central-committee-of-the-communist-party-of-peru-interview-with-chairman-gonzalo/

General line of the PCP
https://gplpcp.wordpress.com/

'Shining Path: Terror and Revolution in Peru' - Simon Strong
http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=4FB5D349F9D3250453C5F0525F5890DD

India:

Operation “Green Hunt” in India
https://foreignlanguages.press/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/N08-Operation-Green-Hunt.pdf

Eight Historic Documents (AZAD)
https://foreignlanguages.press/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/S18-Historic-Eight-Documents.pdf

'Urban Perspective'
https://foreignlanguages.press/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/S14-Urban-Perspective-4th-Printing.pdf

Philippines:

Araling Aktibista - Activist Study ARAK
https://foreignlanguages.press/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/S22-Activist-Study-ARAK-2nd-Printing.pdf

'Stand for Socialism Against Modern Revisionism'
https://foreignlanguages.press/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/S07-Stand-for-Socialism-3rd-Printing.pdf

'Philippine Society and Revolution'
https://bannedthought.net/Philippines/CPP/1970s PhilippineSocietyAndRevolution-4ed.pdf

Political Economy:

'Rethinking Socialism' – Deng-yuan Hsu & Pao-yu Ching
https://foreignlanguages.press/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/S11-Rethinking-Socialism-4th-Printing.pdf

'China: A Modern Social-Imperialist Power' - CPI(Maoist)
http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=F68AC84D480D41A222818D802F3AF7CA
or
https://library.bz/uploads/main/c0105702c9219cf136bdae79008daaa4.epub
or
https://why-mlm.medium.com/china-a-modern-social-imperialist-power-d5ac7a9455f7

'Maoist Economics & the Revolutionary Road to Communism' - The Shanghai Textbook
http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=8B44F61D828997487E2FDE607FCF2FEB

——————–
Leftcom Reading Lists
——————–

r/marxism101's reading list:
https://i.imgur.com/s70UUPQ.jpg

r/bruhinternational's reading list:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bruhinternational/comments/m53hon/official_rbruhinternational_reading_list/

Bordiga:

'The Democratic Principle'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1922/democratic-principle.htm

'Proletarian Dictatorship and Class Party'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1951/class-party.htm

'The Spirit of Horsepower'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1953/horsepower.htm

'Report on Fascism'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1922/bordiga02.htm

'Activism'
https://libcom.org/library/activism-amadeo-bordiga

'The Lyons Theses'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1926/lyons-theses.htm

'Theory and Action in Marxist Doctrine'
https://libcom.org/library/theory-action-marxist-doctrine-amadeo-bordiga

'Dialogue with Stalin'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1952/stalin.htm

Pannekoek:

'World Revolution and Communist Tactics'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1920/communist-tactics.htm

'Party and Class'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1936/party-class.htm

Herman Gorter:

'Open Letter to Comrade Lenin'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/gorter/1920/open-letter.htm

'The World Revolution'
https://www.marxists.org/archive/gorter/1918/world-revolution.htm

——————–
Bookchin Reading Lists - based off of posts by Gorm1918 (pbuh)
——————–

'The Next Revolution'
https://libcom.org/files/Murray%20Bookchin-The%20Next%20Revolution.%20Popular%20Assemblies%20and%20the%20Promise%20of%20Direct%20Democracy-Verso%20(2015).pdf

'Urbanization Without Cities'
http://188.165.199.119/files/Urbanization_Without_Cities_-_Ebook.pdf

'The 3rd Revolution'
https://libcom.org/library/third-revolution-popular-movements-revolutionary-era

'The Ecology of Freedom'
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/murray-bookchin-the-ecology-of-freedom

——————–
Links to Resources and Libraries:
——————–

More Marx and Engels:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/index.htm

Lenin:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/

Other Selected Marxists:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/selected-marxists.htm

Classical Works Recommended To High-Ranking Cadres:
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-8/mswv8_56.htm

Many important books can be found on libgen:
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/

Libcom has some good books/documents:
https://libcom.org/library

Other links:
https://archive.is/L8uFD

Various assortment of historical and biographical works:
https://archive.org/search.php?query=uploader%3A%22kocotosi%40gmail.com%22&sort=-publicdate

The Leftist Bookshelf (4.16 GB, 600+ files)
https://mega.nz/#F!QUFQSBja!hPbmmLolJBGwSQ848nncnw
This was originally a torrent but I can't find the link anymore. Its description was: "640 eBooks, mostly in PDF format (a bunch are CHM, DJVU or ePUB), from a revolutionary Leftist viewpoint. The main subjects are politics and philosophy, history, economics, and much much more."

Political Theory (MLM) (2.64 GB, 550+ files)
https://mega.nz/#F!4M1FnTgI!CdM8WWjpBC_UHGCJk9AHzA
I found this on reddit years ago (circa 2016) Don't really remember who made it or where it came from, but this is a reading course (politics, philosophy, economics, etc) focused on Maoism. Has many books and articles on the USSR, PRC, Stalin, Mao, etc.

The Anarchist Library (669 MB, 4000+ files)
https://mega.nz/#F!gRFkQCLY!5gUkmaubpp_P_yKLZiBJ9Q
This is a complete mirror of the anarchist library with pdfs and epubs

Little Bunker of Marxism-Leninism (680 MB, 100+ files)
https://mega.nz/#F!0QtCiI7L!MJZJk-SdjyBuBZOuNJuOPQ
Unfinished project focused on M-L with more than 100 books on several topics like history, economics, politics, etc. Lots of stuff on the USSR.

Historical Materialism series (330 MB, 100+ files)
https://mega.nz/#F!9IkymYBZ!B8vB2yDP0Qv_-DPS2ro-HA
A pdf archive of over 100 books from the Historical Materialism book series. I got this from thecharnelhouse.org years ago and the website had released many marxist books from other publishers but unfortunately it's been taken down.

/leftypol/ with a slash of liberty (239 MB, 100+ files)
https://mega.nz/#F!sFMQXJ6J!JboByVCZScC6Jq2YXE0Exw
I didn't make this, just reuploading it. This is a classic /leftypol/ link, marxist stuff mixed with anarchism.

Marx & Engels Collected Works (900+ MB, 50 files)
https://mega.nz/#F!BJEmkQiZ!vylIbCWFrqIeYaLiuN2szg
The official, complete works of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels organized in 50 volumes and 3 categories.
>>

 No.285227

> our political ideology
I'm not a Marxist though
>>

 No.285236

>>285227
Pathetic attempt at holding people from reading. Pull your faggy soyboy face off with a knife and eat it
>>

 No.285247

File: 1622232510872-0.pdf ( 2.93 MB , 67x118 , Stalin The History and Cri….pdf )

File: 1622232510872-1.pdf ( 17.39 MB , 67x118 , Domenico Losurdo - Liberal….pdf )

File: 1622232510872-2.pdf ( 16.27 MB , 197x300 , Losurdo, Domenico - War an….pdf )

File: 1622232510872-3.pdf ( 1.17 MB , 232x300 , Domenico Losurdo, Gregory ….pdf )

File: 1622232510872-4.pdf ( 2.73 MB , 206x300 , (Marx, Engels, and Marxism….pdf )

Also you should read Losurdo.
>>

 No.285248

Welp, might as well start with absolute beginners tier, lol.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm
>>

 No.285250

>>285247
Nice attempt at idpol. Stalin wasn't black.
>>

 No.285251

File: 1622232565770-0.jpg ( 2.47 MB , 2016x2880 , book list3.jpg )

File: 1622232565770-1.png ( 292.7 KB , 1000x2000 , book list4.png )

File: 1622232565770-2.png ( 848.14 KB , 2192x1856 , anti work reading list.png )

File: 1622232565770-3.jpg ( 2.93 MB , 2880x2016 , book list.jpg )

File: 1622232565770-4.jpg ( 319.22 KB , 1151x1200 , book list2.jpg )

some guides/lists
>>

 No.285252

File: 1622232606699-0.png ( 3.77 MB , 900x2648 , book list5.png )

File: 1622232606699-1.png ( 1.4 MB , 1074x1598 , leninism reading kit.png )

File: 1622232606699-2.jpeg ( 271.82 KB , 1090x1389 , non-tumblr tier feminism.jpeg )

File: 1622232606699-3.jpg ( 1.62 MB , 3240x3600 , start with the greeks.jpg )

>>

 No.285253

>>285227
Feel free to post a reading list for your own poltical ideology
>>

 No.285257

>>285250
lmao
>>

 No.285258

Based. This whole board needs more reading. How about adding some ML content? I see the Lenin list and some Mao in the MLM list, but maybe some Stalin and other MLs? These are good books for starters:

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03.htm

Hopefully someone more well read than me should suggest more books, these are the only ones i've read.
>>

 No.285260

>>285258
Stalin's collected works' magnet
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:6195e3ed3cdb7e0ee58ab6593734e3162fcf3c44&dn=StalinCW&tr=udp%3a%2f%2fexplodie.org%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.torrent.eu.org%3a451%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.0o.is%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.iamhansen.xyz%3a2000%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.birkenwald.de%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.gbitt.info%3a80%2fannounce&tr=https%3a%2f%2ftracker.nanoha.org%3a443%2fannounce
>>

 No.285261

>>285253
>inc Mein Kampf
>>

 No.285272

File: 1622234285279.jpg ( 45.02 KB , 622x579 , 1621149496045.jpg )

IIRC: Principles of communism seems to imply, so far, that the proletariat was unique to the 19th and 20th century. Does this imply that the current working class is not proletarian?

Also there's an interesting section about manufacturing workers, self employed types, that distinguishes them from both petty Borgeious and Prolotariate.
>>

 No.285280

This is a good thread but very bad that it was posted by a mod. Remember we're supposed to be a non-sectarian board?
>>

 No.285285

>>285272
Not sure what you mean by that. It is true that a lot of the conditions of the working class are now different to what they were (particularly in the first world), but the overall analysis still stands.

>The proletariat is that class in society which lives entirely from the sale of its labor and does not draw profit from any kind of capital; whose weal and woe, whoselife and death, whose sole existence depends on the demand for labor — hence,on the changing state of business, on the vagaries of unbridled competition. The proletariat, or the class of proletarians, is, in a word, the working class of the 19th century.

The last line only implies that the proletariat was the working class that appeared in the 19th century. It does not say it is a phenomenon specific to that time. Notice what actually describes the proletariat: living off the sale of one's labor alone. That is still very much true of the current working classes.

>>285280
In what way is the OP sectarian? Sure, it's more marxist focused, but it caters to various different tendencies, even Bookchinist communalism (not marxism). Not to mention, the mods have been gathering this list for a while now, yet no anarchist (or other tendency) posters have contributed in any way to the list. If anything it just goes to show that either a) anarchist posters are just completely uninvested in the board or b) anarchists don't read. In either case, the solution is not for the mods to bend over backwards to make reading lists for tendencies they don't know, but for interested posters to engage, gather and suggest material. Note the post above by one of the mods, expliticly saying contributions are still welcome.
>>

 No.285289

I propose an activity: Anons post a leftist position they can't stand or despise and another from that position recommends the first anon a book.

I'll begin, I can't stand anarcho-primitivists, can an An-prim recommend a book.
>>

 No.285335

>>285289
probably the best youll get is Desert which is a good read and well written but in terms of real analysis and propositions is shit im sorry to say
>>

 No.285344

>>285335
Desert is not anprim.
>>

 No.285348

thank you, I wanted more recommendations
>>

 No.285364

File: 1622238232139.png ( 271.23 KB , 468x600 , READ.png )

oh thank god this is back. this was always my favorite thread in the old leftypol.
>>

 No.285366

https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-y_8iHigC3Ms5TngF/BLUM%20killing%20hope_djvu.txt

Killing Hope By William Blum, a history of US Military and CIA interventions since WW2
>>

 No.285394

File: 1622239246803.jpg ( 1.64 MB , 2500x1400 , 1619811147455.jpg )

>>285285
Ok so even if you ignore the uniqueness of the 19th and 20th century prolotariat as a mass of industrial workers how is it we are not fully certain that the prolotariate is not, itself,a faiding class in the 21st century or at least not as strong and therefore unable to rise to the challenge of communism? Are we not being more and more integrated into the manufacturing workers role? E.g: Computers are a good example of manufacturing prolotariat and we all have one of those. Or what about people who own capital in the form of stocks? Now that technology has advanced to a point where anyone can download robbinhood amd start investing does this not imply that the prolotariate has at least fallen into the margins of society?
>>

 No.285467

>>285289

I fucking hate maoism, can a MLM recommend me a book that is not a Mao book, that is not a Gonzalo interview, and that is not Moufawad-Paul ?
>>

 No.285482

>>285467
Marx
>>

 No.285498

File: 1622242007450.gif ( 1.07 MB , 640x480 , .gif )

>>285482

Already did, hence why i'm not a maoist.
>>

 No.285520

>>285498
Mao wasn't that bad. I haven't read a super lot of him but i understand he had good revolutionary theory as far as practice goes.
>>

 No.285656

File: 1622247427316-0.png ( 539.78 KB , 1920x1080 , MIA marxist introduction.png )

File: 1622247427316-1.png ( 898.82 KB , 720x2160 , leftypol marxism .png )

File: 1622247427316-2.png ( 662.08 KB , 1920x1080 , leftypol absolute begginer….png )

File: 1622247427316-3.png ( 5.85 MB , 3400x6800 , reddit soicalism starterpa….png )

>>

 No.285854

based thread
>>

 No.285858

>>285394
I want to know more about this too
>>

 No.285862

>>285656
the law of value series has been taken down from youtube

any mirrors?
>>

 No.285918

>>285862
Has it really.
>>

 No.285991

File: 1622260354576-0.jpg ( 354.86 KB , 880x1445 , Blindpill.jpg )

File: 1622260354576-1.jpg ( 417.11 KB , 1575x1555 , Empirical Marxism Reading ….jpg )

File: 1622260354576-2.jpg ( 624.03 KB , 1844x2348 , Leninist Reading List 1.jpg )

>>285656
>>285252
>>285251
Gonna add some lists
>>

 No.285995

File: 1622260420361-0.jpg ( 410.3 KB , 1310x1300 , Marxism Reading List 1.jpg )

File: 1622260420361-1.jpg ( 577.59 KB , 1350x4400 , Marxist Economics.jpg )

File: 1622260420361-2.jpg ( 1.08 MB , 2500x7500 , Marxist Philosophy.jpg )

File: 1622260420361-3.jpg ( 3.17 MB , 967x8340 , Reading List Prolekult.jpg )

File: 1622260420361-4.png ( 945.23 KB , 2152x1040 , Where to start with Marxis….png )

>>285991
>>

 No.285999

File: 1622260480378-0.png ( 912.46 KB , 1920x1080 , Leftist Arthouse.png )

File: 1622260480378-1.png ( 5.02 MB , 1484x2372 , Leftist Viewing 1.png )

File: 1622260480378-2.jpg ( 331.12 KB , 1105x1395 , Leftist Viewing 2.jpg )

File: 1622260480378-3.jpg ( 1.37 MB , 1300x1427 , leftypol chore.jpg )

>>285995
Not really reading, but still
>>

 No.286043

Engels : Ludwig Fuerbach
Darwin: The Origins of the Species.
Daniel Dennet: Darwin’s Dangerous Idea
Plekanov: The Materialist Conception of History
Lenin: Materialism and Empiro-Criticism
Kautsky : Origins of Christianity
Paul Cockshott: How the world Works
Turing: Can a Machine Think
Althusser : Lenin and Philosophy
Daniel Dennet: Consciousness Explained
Claude Shannon: Mathematical Theory of Communication
Paul Cockshott, Allin F. Cottrell, Gregory J. Michaelson, Ian P. Wright and Victor M. Yakovenko: Classical Econophysics
Phil A. Neel: Hinterland
Paul Cockshott, Allin F. Cottrell: Towards a New Socilaism
Nicholas Shackel: The Vacuity of Postmodernist Methodology.
Smedley Butler: War Is A Racket
William Blum: Killing Hope U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II
Losurdo Domenico: Liberalism A Counter-History
Micheal Parenti: Blackshirts and reds rational fascism and the overthrow of communism
>>

 No.286175

what do u guys think of Neue Marx-Lektüre
>>

 No.286183

>>286175
Bro…just don't
>>

 No.286202

>>286188
>Who the fuck is that?

heinrich n shit. monetary theory of value
>>

 No.286206

>>286202
originally spawned by Isaak Illich Rubin who was purged by stalin, but has gained popularity again.
>>

 No.286211

>>286188
>Now i'm even more curious
It isn't some forbidden fruit like you think. Just straight up retardation
>>

 No.286217

>>286211
Why's it retarded? Seems pretty straightforward to me. We can't have commodity exchange on a systemic level without a universal equivalent (money).
Therefore value can only be realized through this exchange of money, not just created in a vacuum of production.
>>

 No.286226

>>286217
This by far doesn't cover it buddy. They have far more to say than that. Their line of thought essentially brings you back being an armchair analyst
>>

 No.286260

>>285223
Hello, to clarify, the reason that MLM and Leftcoms specifically have their own sections on our list is those are the only people that contributed so far. If you think there should be an anarchist reading list (or whatever) then please give some suggestions for your ideology and we will add them.
>>

 No.286275

>>286226
What I've read just emphasized the role of money for value, what are you referring to?
>>

 No.286319

>>286275
Explain verwertung in your own words.
>>

 No.286445

>>286043
Actually a great list for the modern communist
>>

 No.286457

>>285467
Black panth party lit
>>

 No.286496

>>286043
>Classical Econophysics before Towards A New Socialism
Lmao what?? TANS would be a much better book to read first than Classical Econophysics since TANS was written for the average person in mind whilst Classical Econophysics is more esoteric and dense book.
>>

 No.286578

>>286445
>Actually a great list for the modern communist
It's not a complete and carefully curated list, this was adhoc. you might actually want to read other stuff too like Marx's Capital for an obvious example
>>286496
you don't have to read it in that order. I guess you are right TANS should come before Econophysics
>>

 No.286711

>>286578
I gathered it was kinda rough. I'm sure the cybersoc thread could expand it into 2 lists, one scientific and one more political (lenin, althusser, parenti, etc)
>>

 No.287096

>What will this new social order have to be like?
Above all, it will have to take the control of industry and of all branches of production out of the hands of mutually competing individuals, and instead institute a system in which all these branches of production are operated by society as a whole – that is, for the common account, according to a common plan, and with the participation of all members of society.

>It will, in other words, abolish competition and replace it with association.

<Moreover, since the management of industry by individuals necessarily implies private property, and since competition is in reality merely the manner and form in which the control of industry by private property owners expresses itself

<it follows that private property cannot be separated from competition and the individual management of industry. Private property must, therefore, be abolished and in its place must come the common utilization of all instruments of production and the distribution of all products according to common agreement – in a word, what is called the communal ownership of goods.

<In fact, the abolition of private property is, doubtless, the shortest and most significant way to characterize the revolution in the whole social order which has been made necessary by the development of industry – and for this reason it is rightly advanced by communists as their main demand.

DENGISTS FULL ON SEETHING AND COPING
>>

 No.287213

You k ow engles really makes it sound like economic planning was not to plan for production A-priori, rather, to have an economic plan for production after the fact: Meaning qe produce, or, literally as engles puts it: Over produce and the we plan out the distribution of our over production or the distribution, to a degree, of our production in general.
>>

 No.287294

File: 1622325339583.png ( 181.72 KB , 366x418 , torrent.PNG )

>>285223
https://leftypol.org/edu/res/4881.html
get some magnets
>>

 No.287295

>>287213
except if you're overproducing then you're wasting labour. distributing surplus after the face sounds production anarchy-y
>>

 No.287437

>>287295
I guess, perhaps. It still doesn't sound to me like the distribution and production of resources is planed out in totality though. I think you have to allow for some anarchy fundamentally in some way. Look at the passage:

"There will be no more crises; the expanded production, which for the present order of society is overproduction and hence a prevailing cause of misery, will then be insufficient and in need of being expanded much further. Instead of generating misery, overproduction will reach beyond the elementary requirements of society to assure the satisfaction of the needs of all; it will create new needs and, at the same time, the means of satisfying them. It will become the condition of, and the stimulus to, new progress, which will no longer throw the whole social order into confusion, as progress has always done in the past. Big industry, freed from the pressure of private property, will undergo such an expansion that what we now see will seem as petty in comparison as manufacture seems when put beside the big industry of our own day. This development of industry will make available to society a sufficient mass of products to satisfy the needs of everyone."


It pretty much seems to me like he is saying "over production is actually good as long as the over production is planned for accordingly.
>>

 No.287747

File: 1622352119221.mp4 ( 1.11 MB , 1280x576 , sis spill the theory.mp4 )

U read theory, sis?

(uh hello class this is an example of recuperation pls don't delete)
>>

 No.287771

>>287437
it's expanding production that he's talking about as a good thing though. and we should keep in mind that we have the climate situation to deal with, so there are limits to which industries can actually be expanded. there's also a bit of language wrangling to be had over what "over"production actually means in a planned economy. agriculture will tend to have overproduction as a rule if we plan for the worst case and so always get bountiful harvests (relative to needs)
>>

 No.287934

>>285394
Computers are not "proletariat". The proletariat is a specific class of people within the system of capitalism. Computers are not people. As for people who own stocks, if their relations to the means of production is still having to sell their labor for survival, it doesn't matter that they own a few shares. Their status is still one of being a prole.
>>

 No.288140

Bump
>>

 No.288152

>>287934
indeed. additionally, machines do not create value
>>

 No.288321

>>287934
I didn't say computers were Prolotariate: I said engles defines a Prolotariate aa one who literally only sells his labor to survive. He makes a clear distinction between people who make a living off the internet; self employed people and a difference between people who hold stocks; and people who live off their own labor. He makes a clear distinction between them.
>>

 No.288422

>>288405
is it boring
>>

 No.288425

>>288422
6/10.

I enjoyed it.
>>

 No.288542

>>288537
It's a thread anon just post them here
>>

 No.288567

>>288405
based, you did good

now keep on reading
>>

 No.288577

>>288573
What De Leon texts would you recommend.
>>

 No.288602

Has anyone red the Grundrisse. The text seems even longer than capital. But from what ive skimmed it seems a bit more straightforward and easier to read
>>

 No.288615

>>288573
I think Samir Amin deserves a mentioning if Foster gets one, no?
>>

 No.289413

why do I seemingly get burnt out on even reading like twenty pages a day

i want to read more in general because im kind of a dumbass but I also want to be well read enough to push back on libs and fascists but I can't seem to get to the point where I read like a few books a month
>>

 No.289419

>>289413
have you tried with audiobooks?
>>

 No.289434

>>289413
Set aside a block of time everyday during which you read a set number of pages. for me this is an hour or two before going to sleep.
You may also benefit from briefly switching genres. IDK what you consider to be light reading, but try some fiction books to get up to speed before returning to history/theory.
>>

 No.289460

>>289419
oh, yeah, but the two audiobooks I tried I can barely even focus on anything because the narration was so fucking SHIT

i figured audiobooks would be cool for me since i listen to podcasts and random lectures on YT at my wagie job and retain almost everything but it's not the same
>>

 No.289567

File: 1622471668651.jpg ( 147.24 KB , 1200x800 , reading-cultural-revolutio….jpg )

Hey /leftypol/. Just passing by to let everyone know about /read/: a collective of reading groups from /edu/. We host various different reading groups, and hold discussions over Matrix. If anyone here wants to discuss works of theory (such as those in the OP - note we're the authors of the Introduction to Marxism list), come on over to our Matrix. One of our groups just got done reading Capital vol1 and will be moving on to Lenin soon. Meanwhile, another one of our groups is gearing up to read Capital.

We have a Matrix community for discussion and a little website for our library and reading schedules. If you are interested, see our thread for the details >>>/edu/5912

I would also encourage anyone to post theory questions and threads over on >>>/edu/, a sadly underutilized board.

Without revolutionary theory, there can be no revolutionary movement.
>>

 No.289571

>>289567
based theory nerds /edu/cating leftypol
>>

 No.289641

File: 1622477281924.jpg ( 239.43 KB , 1212x1746 , 713-rAA2vXL.jpg )

>>285223
Thoughts on this book?
>>

 No.289642

>>289641
Never heard of it.
tldr;?
>>

 No.289864

>>289642
I have the pdf in Spanish, there are like 350 pages.
I still don't read it, don't know if it's worth it
>>

 No.289869

>>289641
Gay
>>

 No.290003

>our
fuck marx
fuck engels
fuck authoritarians
fuck communism
fuck you
>>

 No.290023

>>290003
>muh Authoritarianism
read uygha
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm
>>

 No.290037

>>290003
Cope and seethe
>>

 No.290110

>>290023
>Wanting to abolish authority in large-scale industry is tantamount to wanting to abolish industry itself, to destroy the power loom in order to return to the spinning wheel.
what did that faggot mean by this?
>>

 No.290133

>>290023
>>290037
>You must, therefore, confess that by "individual" you mean no other person than the bourgeois, than the middle-class owner of property. This person must indeed, be swept out of the way, and made impossible.
>t. state-worshipping karl marx
a despot, classicist zealot, and preeminant national zocialist
>>

 No.290191

>>290133
>>290003
>>

 No.290343

>>290003
>fuck authoritarians
ok boomer
>>

 No.290369

File: 1622509772328.png ( 126.12 KB , 300x168 , 1621450046525.png )

>>290003
>>

 No.290803

>>290003
this gentleman has not seen a revolution
>>

 No.290823

>>290803
You can't sage a sticky. You know that?
>>

 No.290909

>>290823
yeah, i just forgot to remove it
>>

 No.291734

File: 1622595316841.jpg ( 10.67 KB , 300x305 , 20210601_154159.jpg )

>All this MLM but not a single Cockshott or Parenti book
>>

 No.291736

>>291734
Cockshott good
Parenti is nothing but a shill though. Kind of like the """""""""""""""intelectual""""""""""""""" equivalent of watching a review that you know it's going to be positive to reinforce your view
>>

 No.292076

>>291734
There is a empirical marxism reading list somewhere around here
>>

 No.292567

>>291736
this
>>

 No.292573

>>291736
>>292567
I mean he is a Historian that does a very good job at collecting positive facts to counter Anti-Communists. For a newbie, he is perfect. Why does /leftypol/ always need to shit up the party?
>>

 No.292631

>>290110
seems pretty obvious, especially in context, since he spells it out very explicitly with examples. having no authority to manage whats happening with heavy equipment on a shop floor would be a disaster
>>

 No.292769

>>291734
Post it you fucking retards. Do you need some one to hold your soyhands?
>>

 No.292868

>>291734
Parenti is a pseud
>>

 No.292880

>>292868
>>291736
>>292567
This is why nobody likes you retards.
>>

 No.292885

>>292880
Recommend Parenti to your lib friends all you want, he's a great polemic writer. But if we're trying to educate Marxists, thinking people, we shouldn't suggest subpar or sloppy writers.
>>

 No.292901

>>292885
>But if we're trying to educate Marxists, thinking people, we shouldn't suggest subpar or sloppy writers.
Holy LARP. This thread includes an Introduction to Marxism and an Absolute Beginners list. What is this retardation? You want to alienate everyone from your retarded reading groups?
>>

 No.292928

>>292885
>Recommend Parenti to your lib friends all you want, he's a great polemic writer
That's how Parenti is recommended you retard. Nobody claims he is the highpriest of marxism
>>292901
Yeah, I don't know what his problem is
>>

 No.292957

>>292928
> Nobody claims he is the highpriest of marxism
Except tankies
>>

 No.294037

I don't know why people talk shit about the manifesto.
It's actually a very well written text.
>>

 No.294200

>>285223
Why hasn't this been included in the OP? It's not strictly leftist but it's full of history books that are organized (by me). Someone put it in the list of previous leftypol boards iirc

https://mega.nz/folder/dlZlDbqL#TXG5bGvWufONkrQAL7b7jA
>>

 No.294372

>>294200
Actually if you added some of xi's work here or deng that would be appreciated.
>>

 No.294702

>>294372
kek, why those two in particular? I haven't added books for a few years though, tbh. And i never got into adding books on communist china too much, only the republican period.
>>

 No.294714

>>294702
Tbh i half way find myself agreeing with dengoids and half way not. I also like xi as a leader in and of himself and find his long history with the party to be note worthy.

I figure i should probably actually read the men before full on making my declarations about them. After reading mao ofc.
>>

 No.294724

>>294714
I see. well you can try libgen, of course. I ultimately just compiled books from there. I've wanted to take up adding more and organizing the collection again but it's time consuming and I am not a NEET anymore. I really wanted to add more leftist history and theory too but never got the chance
>>

 No.295520

am i stupid or does anti oedipus make no fucking sense

keep in mind i've read like 3 books in my life
>>

 No.295566

>>294200
>Patricia Crone
>Crawford Gribben
Some… odd choices
>>

 No.295643

>>285236
lol u mad bro?
>>

 No.295718

File: 1622819332503-0.pdf ( 4.73 MB , 232x300 , XiJinping-TheGovernanceOfC….pdf )

File: 1622819332503-1.pdf ( 1.72 MB , 207x300 , Deng Xiaoping - Selected W….pdf )

File: 1622819332503-2.pdf ( 1.95 MB , 300x300 , Xiaoping Deng - Selected W….pdf )

File: 1622819332503-3.pdf ( 1.97 MB , 204x300 , Xiaoping Deng - Selected W….pdf )

File: 1622819332503-4.pdf ( 225.97 KB , 232x300 , Xis the One by Sandra Coup….pdf )

>>294372
Here you go
>>

 No.296671

>>285289
I can’t stand communalists. Can a bookchinite anon recommend me a book? (hard mode: not the new revolution, I’ve already read that)
>>

 No.296686

Does anyone here have a PDF of “The Politics and Economics of the transitional period” by Bukharin? Marxists.org doesn’t have it any everywhere else is paywalled
>>

 No.296754

File: 1622852804353.pdf ( 4.69 MB , 225x300 , (Routledge Library Edition….pdf )

>>296686
I easily found it on libgen
>>

 No.296797

>>296754
Thanks
>>

 No.296866

File: 1622858921266-0.jpg ( 34.19 KB , 425x319 , Brecht.jpg )

File: 1622858921266-1.jpg ( 79.37 KB , 768x508 , Ngugi.jpg )

File: 1622858921266-2.jpg ( 57.83 KB , 768x512 , Upton Sinclair.jpg )

There are lots of great theory recs ITT, but who are the best left-wing (I mean really left-wing, not just liberal/succdem) fiction writers, and what are their best works?
>>

 No.296870

File: 1622859468158.png ( 330.43 KB , 550x360 , ThePoisonwoodBible-01.png )

>>296866
I liked this when I read it 10 years ago
basically a story of a missionary attempting to spread their religion in the congo in the 50s or somewhere around there
things go horribly wrong
>>

 No.296872

>>296870
I actually read that in AP English, and now that I think of it it was pretty redpilled on neocolonialism. I'll add it to my list.
>>

 No.297225

>>295566
>Patricia Crone
In the middle eastern section? Not all of her work is discredited, right?
>Crawford Gribben
had to look it up, but i assume he is in the ireland section? I had wanted to start by putting books on northern ireland (ideally I would like to put every single book on ireland in there eventually, but that is ambitious), but I never got around to thoroughly organizing it. Generally, I just strip mind libgen on a certain historical topic and then organized them in a logical fashion, but that means there's a lot of blindspots where I put some shitty historians, though I like to think that I'm more knowledgeable than most people about this stuff
>>

 No.297801

>>296866
Brecht is definitely up Top 3.
>>

 No.297805

>>295520
No it's deliberately written to make sense only to a schizo. If you can't read that much, watch this vid. It's as decent as "youtube philosophy" gets
>>

 No.298833

>>297805
>actually, being skitzo is based

Why I come here, the.
>>

 No.298854

>>298833
What do you mean?
>>

 No.298886

>>298884
Depends. If you watch the video or read Deleuze, you can see that he is really criticizing this "LARPing" and commodification process of identity, ideologies etc. that we see so much on social media, especially leftist social media. Some things he says are alright
>>

 No.299019

>>285862
>>285918
I still found it
>>

 No.299830

File: 1623014621383.png ( 2.13 KB , 452x242 , d82621a3f09ee4e9d4ae8a6e90….png )

>>299019
Based. Bless you anon.
>>

 No.299832

>>298854
I come here for takes like this lol.
>>

 No.299973

>>299832
I mean…it makes sense in a way. Capitalism really is schizophrenic in its destructiveness
>>

 No.300030

>>300018
So if we don't want to be commodified like identities or even ideologies, we should become schizophrenic or stepping out of the boundaries?
>>

 No.300998

>>300036
I agree but just to clarify. What is the "fundamental nature" of the skitzo that makes him so difficult to commodify? And by ideological framing or grounding you mean a robust theoretical framework to reference, I assume? Something the ideology shoppers or people that take are obsessed with taking on identities, lack?
>>

 No.301222

>>301027
>>301027
>>301027

Post it you fucking retards.
>>

 No.301409

File: 1623068691714.pdf ( 57.24 MB , 67x118 , The Hierarchies of Cuckold….pdf )

>>285223
Unironically valuable insight.
>>

 No.303366

File: 1623102826555.pdf ( 28.41 MB , 205x300 , manufacturing_consent_-_th….pdf )

Currently reading manufacturing consent.
Thoughts?
>>

 No.303382

File: 1623103142857.pdf ( 37.51 MB , 204x300 , Inventing Reality The Poli….pdf )

>>303366
It's fine but read the original too
>>

 No.303389

>>303382
Shitttttt, I forgot thia was a thing. I'll read that too. For sure.
>>

 No.304365

>"On July 31, the physical distancing requirement changes. If a workplace has unvaccinated employees, an employer would have a choice under the new rules: require everyone to be masked and physically distanced, or require unvaccinated employees to wear a respirator such as an N95 and others to wear at least a cloth face covering."
>>

 No.305017

File: 1623167225926.jpg ( 152.93 KB , 1080x1620 , marxism-reading.jpg )

Hey /leftypol/, /read/ here. So we've had lots of whining about lack of a Marxist-Leninist reading list, but surprisingly few actual recommendations. The mods are willing to edit the OP if more stuff is to be added. So, how about we make a Marxism-Leninism reading list, /leftypol/?

In the /read/ chat we came up with a few suggestions for books of various authors which are relevant to MLism (regardless of whether or not they considered themselves as such).

Stalin:
- Foundations of Leninism
- Dialectical and Historical Materialism
- Marxism and the National Question

Lukács:
- History and Class Consciousness

Che Guevara:
- Reminiscences of the Cuban Revolutionary War
- Socialism and Man in Cuba

We also thought of adding works by Ho Chi Minh and Antonio Gramsci, but we have refrained from doing so, as none of us are quite familiar with their works. Anyone have suggestions?
>>

 No.305020

File: 1623167340086-0.png ( 65.14 KB , 611x436 , index.png )

File: 1623167340086-1.pdf ( 1.65 MB , 214x300 , C14-Gramsci-The-Modern-Pri….pdf )

>>305017
For Gramsci we found this neat book by Foreign Languages Press which seems interesting. Pic related is what's in it.

Is this a good suggestion for an introduction to Gramsci's works?
>>

 No.306589

Why does the Marxist.org intro to wage labor and capital shit on The LTV? Lol
>>

 No.307179

File: 1623231920410.jpg ( 97.2 KB , 550x708 , ?collid=books_covers_0&isb….jpg )

Anyone has this book either in spanish or english? I swear i can't find it anywhere
>>

 No.307219

File: 1623233979634.pdf ( 22.01 MB , 235x300 , Medina, Eden - Cybernetic ….pdf )

>>307179
It's on libgen.
>>

 No.307225

>>285223
We should add a link to libgen, marxist.org and z-library to the OP so people know where to look for books.
>>

 No.307234

>>307225
>so people know where to look for books
I prefer physical books. What are some of the best publishers for socialists? Monthly Review, Verso are the ones I know about, but what else?
>>

 No.307998

File: 1623261224247.pdf ( 27.88 MB , 67x118 , Richard Stites - Revolutio….pdf )

Not exactly a theory book, but I really like Stites' attempts at categorizing the grassroots socialist movements of the USSR manifested in utopian experiments, and how they were reinventions of old Russian utopian ideals in a sense.
>>

 No.308130

>>295718
>last pic
lmfao
>>

 No.308132

>>297805
>British accent
piss off
>>

 No.308481

Was cleaning my bookmarks and found transhumanistbunkerchan is dead. It was pretty embarassing as it was, but really? This is the replacement? A mold-infested interface peddlng same failed 150 year old shit? How many of you woke up at 5 am to catch the bus to the commie factory you lazy STD infested eunuchs? None.

And the rules of this site… hilarious
>Hey fellow commies, did you prep your wife's bull today?

Lol @ ''wife" … you fucking losers
>>

 No.308489

>>308481
(You) have aids and your wife is made for CCP
>>

 No.308508

>32 page manifesto on the front cover
32<720
>>

 No.309022

>>285394
>>285272
>>285858
You people are all morons and need to read capital
>>

 No.309024

>>288602
The beginning is deceptively straightforward, then it hits the Chapter on Money and goes into Finnegan's Wake Territory
>>

 No.309029

>>291734
Cuz he's a moron who thinks that the problem with "socialism" in the USSR is that the state planners couldn't set prices right. Not only does he bend over for Stalinism, he even accepts the bourgeois critiques of "socialism" hook, line, and sinker.
>>

 No.309498

>>308132
Kys burger. The guy isn't even british, but it's not your fault your education system failed you
>>

 No.309500

>>309029
Citations needed you stupid trot
>>

 No.309923

>>305017
if anything you need to trim the marxist leninist stuff from the OP.

The absolute last thing a modern, new leftist needs is to be given a reading list of like 30 books published a hundred years ago. Capital is essential, but everything else is optional.
>>

 No.309969

>>309923
>pls stop making people read things i don't agree with
>it's unfair giving them the advantage to have them actually know about the shit i am just shitposting over
>>

 No.310249

I'm writing a paper on India's independence movement, and I'm trying to find some contemporary works which debated the merit of violent resistance to the British. Gandhi wrote an article in 1929 condemning violence called "The Cult of the Bomb," which received a response in defense of violence from the Marxist revolutionary Bhagwati Charan, entitled "The Philosophy of the Bomb." I wanted to read both of these but I can't seem to find the actual text of Gandhi's article anywhere, only references to it in other works. Does anybody know where to find it?
>>

 No.310608

>>309500
If we’re accepting Parentis standards then articles in the Nytimes and Washington Post should be good enough ?
>>

 No.311182

>>309498
>burger
stay mad, my teeth are white and I don't bow to an old hag
>>

 No.311739

>>310608
I'm sorry, I thought you meant Cockshott. Parenti is pretty decent for the average normie that wants to go beyond social democracy. Idk why you are being so harsh a critic with him now
>>

 No.311742

>>311182
Do you need to be an autist in the reading thread?
>>

 No.312101

File: 1623414654345-0.png ( 157.33 KB , 1772x926 , Screen Shot 2021-06-11 at ….png )

File: 1623414654345-1.pdf ( 1.19 MB , 67x118 , VOL048.PDF )

>>310249
On libgen there is a file that contains a shit ton of Gandhi's writings in 100 volumes. I've been combing over it and haven't stumbled upon that particular article, but I have uploaded the volume here that covers the period during which he would have written it. Pic related is a denunciation of the event in front of the Indian National Congress that led him that led him to rwite the article, so I might stumble upon it soon. But this might suffice because I'm sure the material here mimics what he wrote in that article at the time
>>

 No.312121

File: 1623415158074-0.png ( 717.11 KB , 2176x1492 , Screen Shot 2021-06-11 at ….png )

File: 1623415158074-1.png ( 763.66 KB , 2246x1516 , Screen Shot 2021-06-11 at ….png )

>>312101
Found the article! It was a few pages later
>>

 No.312839

File: 1623431026491-0.pdf ( 7.46 MB , 196x300 , TechnocracyStudyCourse-194….pdf )

File: 1623431026491-1.pdf ( 8.11 MB , 173x300 , TechnocracyInPlainTerms.pdf )

Archiving here for… reasons
>>

 No.313237

John Smith- Imperialism in the Twenty First Century

should go in the Marxist essentials list
>>

 No.314261

File: 1623510352267.jpg ( 110.28 KB , 400x500 , socialistlabour.jpg )

>>312121
>>312101
Beyond based, thanks Anon.
>>

 No.314733

>>314261
good luck! were you able to find the philosophy of the bomb?
>>

 No.314838

File: 1623536223382.pdf ( 69.42 KB , 67x118 , 18623179-The-Philosophy-of….pdf )

>>310249
>The Philosophy of the Bomb
Are you sure it's by Bhagwati Charan? I found this but it's by Bhagat Singh
>>

 No.315790

>>315240
There's nothing wrong with reading at your own pace. As you work reading back into your schedule you're attention span will return. Read a page a day if you have to
>>

 No.316054

File: 1623606447184-0.png ( 488.54 KB , 1920x1080 , 2021-05-28_Adunai_book#6.png )

File: 1623606447184-1.png ( 479.11 KB , 1920x1080 , 2021-05-28_Adunai_book#7.png )

File: 1623606447184-2.png ( 476.82 KB , 1920x1080 , 2021-05-28_Adunai_book#8.png )

>>285223
May I suggest a cute non-ideological book on the GDR (there is cool info on sex in Central Germany),
>Katherine Pence, Paul Betts - Socialist Modern: East German Everyday Culture and Politics
And this one,
>Fulbrook, Mary. The People's State: East German Society from Hitler to Honecker (Yale University Press, 2005)
>>

 No.319343

>>316054
>windows
already losing
>>

 No.319932

Has anyone read any Franz Fanon? I’m thinking about reading his “Wretched of the Earth”, is it any good?
>>

 No.319976

>>319932
Yeah, it's based. So is black skins white masks
>>

 No.320109

>>314733
Yeah I found it on the Anarchist Library.
>>314838
I've seen it attributed to a number of others, I mentioned Charan because that's who it was credited to in the book I'm reading on the Hindustan Socialist Republican Army.
>>

 No.323435

File: 1623939365239.mp4 ( 1.38 MB , 1280x592 , троцкий и анархи.mp4 )

>>

 No.325171

as someone who does not understand how national liberation is Marxist in any sense, that has only read some Lenin, what are some good books on Marxist national liberation?
>>

 No.325512

>>316054
I'll admit I haven't read either of those, but "non-ideological book on the GDR" seems unlikely to me.

>>325171
The Wretched of the Earth (Fanon).
>>

 No.325828

>>285223
How do I start on Critical Theory?
>>

 No.326184

File: 1624074764234.jpg ( 356.64 KB , 1536x2048 , 20210618_224743.jpg )

anyone happen to have a pdf of this?
>>

 No.326213

File: 1624076630977.pdf ( 771.6 KB , 232x300 , CRT.pdf )

>>326184
Nevermind, found it
>>

 No.326367

File: 1624083920348.jpg ( 941.89 KB , 999x3158 , suicide note condensed.jpg )

>>285223
Has anyone else here read "Suicide Note" by Mitchell Heisman?

Here's the link to the text:
https://legacy.gscdn.nl/archives/images/suicide_note.pdf
(Read pp. 32 - 625)

TL;DR: https://www.scribd.com/document/198985140/Mitchell-Heisman-s-suicide-note-overview

Alternatively you can listen to it while gaming: https://youtu.be/BiMZi5P7WJA

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkg6y0uFLHOyAX4BlU6tlnp1qW4l2aFEA
>>

 No.326660

>>325828
Maybe Paulo Freire's "The Pedagogy Of The Oppressed"?
>>

 No.328080

File: 1624189491062.png ( 181.72 KB , 366x418 , 1622325339583.png )

Is Carr's History still the go-to history for beginners? Others? Thx
>>

 No.331392

>>331381
I mean, just read Marx. But keep in mind that debating and rhetoric aren't tied to being right or correct. It's theatrical. If you want to pwn people in debates or whatever, learn to screech like the grifters do.
>>

 No.331656

File: 1624391532228.png ( 984.98 KB , 582x862 , bv37498vch348.png )

There are a lot of islamists and naive leftists who don't know the history of Iran in this board. I suggest the former to fuck off and go back to /pol/ and the latter fuckers to read up.

https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/wl/wl3-5.pdf
>>

 No.332207

KHOMEINEI EY IMAM
KHOMEINEI EY IMAM
EY SHAHEED
EY SHAHEED
>>

 No.332733

>>332207
YA ALI
YA ALI
YA ALI
>>

 No.337512

Who is a better companion to kapital? Harvey or Heinrich. A companion I will read and probably never get to kapital itself because it's hard as balls.
>>

 No.338222

>>337512
They're both good. Harvey is more of an explainer, while Heinrich is more of a critical analysis/new reading. That said, neither companion really serves as a substitute for the book itself. They're made to be read alongside Capital, not in its place. It can be difficult, but there's no replacement for it. Seriously, read the book. It's more about persistence than being le big brain theory man.

Discussing with others and asking questions can help a great deal. For this purpose, there is a new friendly Capital reading group just starting over at >>>/edu/5912
>>

 No.339361

>>325512
>Fanon
not a marxist
>>

 No.339369

>>337512
Harvey butchers value (and in general misses a lot) and Heinrich rejects falling rate of profit as well as saying other wild shit. I enjoyed Cleaver's notes personally.
>>

 No.339371

>>339369
Also none of the companions really work as a standalone work. They are meant to be a supplement/clarification for your own notes.
>>

 No.339834

>>339361
He was pretty much a marxist. In western academia he isn't treated as one, sure. But consider that he read and drew great inspiration from the works of Marx, Mao and even the very short works of Ho Chi Minh and wrote extensive critiques of german idealism, not to mention his involvement with anti-colonial and anti-imperialist revolution. While perhaps not an explicit marxist, Fanon is marxist-adjacent enough that we can consider him at the very least a crypto-marxist. Marxist readings of Fanon seem much more fruitful than whatever "decolonial" academic libs seem to be doing with him.
>>

 No.341263

>>339834
>But consider that he read and drew great inspiration from the works of Marx, Mao and even the very short works of Ho Chi Minh and wrote extensive critiques of german idealism
So did Nick Land
>not to mention his involvement with anti-colonial and anti-imperialist revolution.
So did most right-wing nationalists from the third world, which is what Fannon is
>>

 No.341813

>>341263
t. coping westoid
>>

 No.345407

>>345327
sci hub has been frozen with no new uploads of papers since December 2020
>>

 No.345565

>>345407
Fuck
>>

 No.346062

File: 1624979959808.jpeg ( 172.67 KB , 700x950 , maalox.jpeg )

>>285223
What are some great books on leftist praxis?
>>

 No.347184

praxis guide: go outside
>>

 No.349752

Can someone write up on good leftist extra resources like journals, magazines, blogs, publishers etc.?
>>

 No.353920

How is the site called again, where one can get free files of all kinds of literary works? It was "lib"-something.
>>

 No.353927

>>353920
libgen
>>

 No.354378

>>353920
Z-library is another good place to check when you are looking for books.
>>

 No.355077

>>353927
Thanks, comrade.
>>

 No.360844

>>285260
semen please
>>

 No.361056

>>360844
I know someone who can help you with that
>>

 No.362213

File: 1625690699732.pdf ( 6.33 MB , 202x300 , Dialectic of enlightenment….pdf )

>>

 No.366004

Any good audiobooks out there?
>>

 No.366796

>>285227
Nobody who reads could ever be a Marxist.
He’s right with his critics about capitalism but he’s horribly wrong on the solutions.
>>

 No.366800

>>366796
>but he’s horribly wrong on the solutions.
What are his solutions then. Go on and detail them please
>>

 No.366852

>>366796
t. never read Marx
>>

 No.367420

File: 1625893390231.jpg ( 142.71 KB , 1020x536 , NKVD.jpg )

>>285223
the killer of racists, fascists, right winger extremists and liberals

What are your thoughts on the USSR doing this or Communist supporters doing this?
>>

 No.367424

>>367420
>"Can't cook an omelet without first cracking a few eggs"
-Joseph Stalin
>>

 No.367426

>>367424
they arent human with right to live but eggs?
>>

 No.367653

>>367426
>human
>>

 No.367939

>>366796
sounds like my anarchist phase
>>

 No.374700

kyros
>>

 No.380009

>>326213
i read part of this and scanned through and it seems highly subversive, weaving valid points in with quick conflations trying to make division the book itself agrees are social constructs be equivalent to hard reality-derived divisions
>>

 No.384924

What book would someone recommend to go in depth on why collectivism vs individualism is a false dichotomy?
>>

 No.385956

>>384924
it isn't though
>>

 No.386213

File: 1626634240296.jpg ( 36.46 KB , 258x340 , Step_by_step_greene.jpg )

Does anyone have a good history book about the first red scare?
>>

 No.386291

>>385610
>>385956
I don't mean it in a greed sense or anything like that, but more in that you can be collectively focused while still expressing your own individuality.
>>

 No.387167

>>386291
To often /leftypol/ thinks that because personal liberty needs to be partially suspended during a revolution, that because of this, personal liberty as a concept is inherently reactionary.
>>

 No.388164

I wanted to post this as a joke in /b/, but honestly how do we start reading like 2 books a day? Some of the right is slowly becoming more intellectual in their bullshit, and it's becoming more obvious to me that you basically need to know everything ever to properly engage with them
>>

 No.388192

>>388164
This is your idea of a "sophisiticated" rightoid channel?
>>

 No.388840

>>388192
>>388664
Yeah that's the thing, it's stupid but it's still presents the veneer of sophistication and when these people start spouting off about philosophy you better be fucking strapped or they'll just drown you in bullshit
>>

 No.389342

>>388840
>>388664
I mean if this is your reason to finally read Hegel, then I won't interfere
>>

 No.392227

hey hey I have found a few in the megas in this thread, but I am looking for a reading list/mega about american and/or european imperialism. I just want a book where the us is the bad guy. thanks
>>

 No.393157

>>392227
don't have a reading list, but check out Vijay Prashad's "Washington Bullets: A History of the CIA, Coups, and Assassinations"
>>

 No.393583

nice
>>

 No.394314

File: 1626977815745.png ( 2.65 MB , 1200x1150 , hoxhabro.png )

what are some basic hoxhaists texts?
>>

 No.394321

>>295520
you gotta read all philosophy books before reading delueze
>>

 No.396288

philosophy reading list pls (complete and everything, fully so I understand Hegel and philosophy generally)
>>

 No.396550

File: 1627060838286.png ( Spoiler Image, 1.13 MB , 1773x1773 , ClipboardImage.png )

Wealth of Nations and Capital: are they enough for understanding economics?
And about Ricardo, which book is his main work that I need to read?
>>

 No.396553

>>396550
Focus on those, you don't need to read Ricardo after Marx
>>

 No.396979

>https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/09/20.htm
>to dupe the masses with high-sounding phrases about peace in order to prepare for a new war; to dazzle the masses with the brilliance of “democracy” in order to consolidate the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie; to stun the masses with clamour about the “sovereign” rights of nations and states in order the more successfully to prepare for intervention in China, for slaughter in Afghanistan and in the Sudan, for the dismemberment of Persia
d- did Stalin just casually predict all this shit?
>>

 No.397034

>>396979
wait this shit was IN FUCKING 1924!!!???
>>

 No.400264

>>396979
>casually predicted
Anyone could've read the news. Imperialism started decades and decades ago. Hello, century of humiliation? Brits in Afghanistan? imperialism in India? Newfags lurk more.
>>

 No.402941

>But even then the cul-de-sac stares one in the face. Look at England. The last new market which could bring on a temporary revival of prosperity by its being thrown open to English commerce is China. Therefore English capital insists upon constructing Chinese railways. But Chinese railways mean the destruction of the whole basis of Chinese small agriculture and domestic industry, and as there will not even be the counterpoise of a Chinese grande industrie, hundreds of millions of people will be placed in the impossibility of living. The consequence will be a wholesale emigration such as the world has not yet seen, a flooding of America, Asia and Europe by the hated Chinaman, a competition for work with the American, Australian and European workman on the basis of the Chinese standard of life, the lowest of all – and if the system of production has not been changed in Europe before that time, it will have to be changed then.

Engels predicted reform and opening up
>>

 No.408822

>>396550
Adam Smith writes like shit and I don't think there's much to be gained from reading him, you'll get the gist on both him and Ricardo by reading Vol 2
>>

 No.408823

>>394321
just nietzsche, spinoza, marx and maybe bergson (though i never bothered), stop to appreciate artists he namedrops
>>

 No.411295

>>386213
Haven't read it but there's a book called Savage Peace by Ann Hagedorn that covers the chaos of 1919, including race riots and the red scare
>>

 No.422542

I feel like I should read more during my downtime in work instead of shitposting. Is there anyway to make it more pleasant on the eyes other than just going through the pdf in adobe?
>>

 No.422956

>>422542
e-readers are great, highly recommended. if you're short for cash you can find a used kindle for a good price
>>

 No.422968

File: 1628094881945.png ( 219.02 KB , 1147x812 , foliate epub reader.png )

>>422542
I think the best you can do on a computer is to lower your screen brightness and maybe use a blue light filter (although it's questionable whether they even help). Using epubs instead of PDFs is also good as Adobe Reader is an absolute piece of shit and epubs can be quite comfortable to read. Of course none of this compares to physical books or ereaders, so perhaps try to get a cheap Kobo or maybe a Kindle.
>>

 No.423449

>>422968
Are e-readers that much better? I like to read on the phone because it's like right there and I can go on libgen and immediately download stuff
>>

 No.423453

>>423449
There is an ereader thread on /tech/ with recommendations
I love my ereader because it reads epubs, mobis, and pdfs, and the battery life is insane.
I get most of my books from 1lib, but sometimes i go out of my way to look for .epubs
>>

 No.423648

>>423449
the thing about ereaders is that they don't use regular backlit displays which fuck with your eyes, but e-ink displays, which resemble real paper more. it's a very different experience.
>>

 No.424516

>>422968
I prefer to read actual books when I can for sure but I'm in an office I can pass off reading on the screen as working. I've tried out using an epub instead and it does seem better for sure so thanks on that front.
>>

 No.424596

>>422956
Buying an eReader and pritaing books is cheaper than buying paper versions and much more pleasant than reading on your computer screen
>>

 No.425409

>>337512
>Harvey or Heinrich
Here is a quote from Capital, chapter one: "Skilled labour counts only as simple labour intensified, or rather, as multiplied simple labour, a given quantity of skilled being considered equal to a greater quantity of simple labour. Experience shows that this reduction is constantly being made. A commodity may be the product of the most skilled labour, but its value, by equating it to the product of simple unskilled labour, represents a definite quantity of the latter labour alone."
When the products are exchanged in the market, the product made by X hours of skilled work is usually worth more than the product made by X hours of unskilled work, so some quantity of skilled labor is equated to some (bigger) quantity of unskilled labor in the market. Harvey's comment: "Marx never explains what ‘experience’ he has in mind, making this passage highly controversial." Then more confused rambling follows.

Here's a quote from the foreword of Capital: "The value-form, whose fully developed shape is the money-form, is very elementary and simple. Nevertheless, the human mind has for more than 2,000 years sought in vain to get to the bottom of it all…"
Heinrich says repeatedly that value is specific to capitalism.

These people aren't helping with understanding anything. I say just read Capital. Take your time, don't make any rules about reading X pages per day, just pick up the book regularly.
>>

 No.426793

>>337512
None. Harvey is a dumbass who denies that Marx had a LTV at all. Heinrich is just as stupid. Just read the book, working class people in the 19th and 20th century read it on their lunch break. Also saying 'kapital' is a LARP
>>

 No.428734

>>285227
Test
>>

 No.428860

>>

 No.429885

test
>>

 No.430836

remove name
>>

 No.431309

>>337512
Just be a chad and read both and come to your own educated conclusions. Don't be afraid to go against the grain if you disagree with some of the remarks made. Marx has been interpreted and will continue to be so for a long time and there won't ever be a perfect reading of him. Classics like Capital are read and reread because new bits make impressions that didn't before.
>>

 No.432159

PIN THIS FOR NEWCOMERS, INSTEAD OF HAVING TO LURK FOR RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA AND RADLIB VOMIT
>>

 No.433847

>>432159
it is stickied you dummy, always has been
>>

 No.434235

been getting into theory and recently got Value, Price and Profit + Wage Labour and Capital. i am just wondering what the utility of reading this is if labor theory of value is false? or is that porky propaganda? there seems to be a good amount of valid points against it
>>

 No.435224

any book recs on planned economy?
especially anything regarding OGAS?
>>

 No.435290

File: 1628548964675-0.pdf ( 112.33 KB , 232x300 , cockshott-and-cottrell-ltv.pdf )

File: 1628548964675-1.pdf ( 1.54 MB , 533x300 , cockshott-ltv-presentation.pdf )

File: 1628548964675-2.pdf ( 37.09 KB , 232x300 , heinrich.pdf )

>>434235
Short answer: Keep on reading. Then read Capital.

Long answer: There is no simple answer to the question of the LTV's validity. There are two main ways of dealing with this, I would say. Some of those in the tradition of so-called Marxian Economics have brought out empirical evidence of it. Cockshott is an example of this, and he is quite popular on this board, as I'm sure you've seen. Other thinkers, like the Neue-Marx-Lekture people, point out that Marx wasn't really an advocate of the LTV as it is normally understood, as that was the theory of Adam Smith, David Ricardo, etc, and Marx was really criticising it. These people prefer to present Marx's theory as primarily critical, not descriptive in a positive sense. Michael Heinrich is a representative of this kind of theory.

Here's a video of Cockshott discussing the labor theory of value and his take on its validity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emnYMfjYh1Q . Attached are a few PDFs from Cockshott + Cottrell arguing in favor of the LTV and a PDF of Michael Heinrich criticizing so-called Marxian Economics. I don't fully endorse either position, just posting them so you can get a wider view of these things.

Ultimately I'll tell you to keep on reading what you are reading, as it is very important. And read Capital, as it is the most important book you can read regarding these questions.
>>

 No.435711

>>435290
holy shit, thanks a ton. really appreciated
>>

 No.435824

Got any recommendations for rightoids on idpol and the culture war, urban rural antagonism, neoliberalism and the nation-state, what role liberal civil society has in capitalism/imperialism, how nationalist populism relates to imperialism and if it's 'fascist'
>>

 No.436362

>>435824
The Managerial Revolution by Burnham. All of Burnham is fine for paleocon stuff.
Leviathan and its enemies by Samuel Francis.
>>

 No.436531

>>436362
I meant marxoid stuff for the record
>>

 No.436553

>>436531
Unironically the cultural Marxists like Adorno and the culture industry
>>

 No.438266

>>436531
You really don't need books to figure out the standard perspective of many of these issues.
>Neoliberalism
Most Marxist theoreticians died before ever seeing this stage of capitalism; in any case you can get the main perspective by just browsing the site of literally any communist group or website regardless of sectarian differences.
Generally the line is:
<Neoliberalism was inevitable since the falling rate of profit caused the dissolution of the post-WW2 consensus which itself was an abnormality in the overall history of capitalism since capitalism always been barbaric
>Urban-Rural Antagonism
Any serious Marxist will admit that forced collectivization is necessary and that the peasantry/farmers do not factor into classical Marxist class analysis. Lenin's tactical considerations such as land reform and NEP may be resorted to if necessary, but the overall goal to address rural/urban antagonism is to prole-atize the countryside by forcing all agricultural workers to get onto state-managed collective farms and to establishing a basic standard of living and benefits to avoid alienation.
>IDPOL/Culture War
You already got everything you needed by browsing this board - basically all culture/race/etc. issues are distractions and convenient diversions organized by or seized upon by the ruling elite to avoid economic questions; I think Marx(?) or some other socialist talked about this when he remarked on the uselessness of the pro and anti-Prohibition debate as sucking up time and energy and distracting people from actual pressing problems.
>Imperialism and Liberal Society
Unironically just read The Grayzone or follow their writers or even just MSM and highlight a work every time it mentions "human rights" "humanitarian intervention" etc. for examples on how modern day liberal signaling cues are utilized in service of imperialist objectives.
>National Populism vs Fascism
Too many people have too little grounding in Fascism, specifically historical fascism in Italy and Germany and how it played out, so I would actually recommend two books in this case:

1) Fascism and Big Business by Daniel Guerin
Goes over the two most famous fascist regimes in history by utilizing sources from that period (including the Fascists' own periodicals and newspapers) and analyzing what they were really (materially) doing. This is a pretty short read so I'd recommend this first.

2) Wages of Destruction by Adam Tooze
Entirely focused on Nazi Germany, Tooze advances a thesis of how the Fascist outlook of Nazi Germany's society and leaders led inexorably to war and imperialism.

Having developed a better understanding of historical Fascist regimes, their characteristics, and how they came to power, you can then utilize your own brain and your own analysis of modern "Right-Populist" or nationalist political movements to figure out whether or not they really are Fascist. I'll leave it up to you but this is something you have to decide for yourself.
>>

 No.438602

>>438266
Thanks anon
I just need stuff from a marxist perspective to make sense of the conflict between liberalism and populism
>>

 No.438695

>>438266
>Any serious Marxist will admit that forced collectivization is necessary
Whoa hold on there. Wtf are you saying right now? Is forced collectivization the reason why the USSR lost its dual-power base of workers and peasants? Some theorists even argue that this was the reason the bureaucracy could become as bad as it did
>>

 No.438855

>>438695
>Is forced collectivization the reason why the USSR lost its dual-power base of workers and peasants
Not at all, collectivization allowed peasants greater participation in soviets
>>

 No.439498

File: 1628713862026.jpg ( 426.34 KB , 1008x1043 , Screenshot_20210811-133034….jpg )

This is not a joke or a shitpost but I'm finally starting Capital Vol 1 and I kinda don't want to because I feel like it's going to alienate me from other people even more

like what the fuck type of dude gets a girlfriend reading this shit
>>

 No.439757

>>439745
>what is citizenship
>>

 No.439825

Hey bros I’m a newbie to philosophy and I wanted to know if it was better to start with: Camus, la Boetie, Plato, Sartre or Vaneigem.
>>

 No.439958

File: 1628720929907.pdf ( 2.74 MB , 200x300 , Raoul-Vaneigem-The-Revolut….pdf )

>>439825
Raul Vaneigem because he is very easy to read. If you plan on reading the Situ's you will get a better all around understanding from him as a beginner than you will anyone else.
>>

 No.440052

>>439958
Thanks! I also thought about Freud, Rousseau or Badiou but they're longer and harder I think
>>

 No.441293

File: 1628786799987.pdf ( 7.09 MB , 195x300 , Situationist International….pdf )

>>440052
If the ideas Vanegiem portrays interests you I'd move on to Debord and probably get the Situationist Anthology if english is your first language. It's probably the best one to have.
https://www.akpress.org/situationistinternationalanthology.html In fact i'd say it's a very good one to start with, too.
>>

 No.441303

File: 1628787118283.pdf ( 8.91 MB , 207x300 , What_Is_Situationism.pdf )

>>441293 (me)
Oh, and don't let any sperg intimidate you out of reading them through an irrational froffing hatred of 'post-modernists'.
I know it shouldn't be said but it seems all to common in modern day.
>>

 No.443208

Anyone got anything for the history of Arab and Chinese nationalism, Latin American and African anti imperialist/populist movements, and communist interactions with these?
>>

 No.443876

File: 1628891634437.jpg ( 45.84 KB , 333x500 , 51siG1o5WFL.jpg )

>The Jungle - Upton Sinclair
Upton Sinclair's dramatic and deeply moving story exposed the brutal conditions in the Chicago stockyards at the turn of the nineteenth century and brought into sharp moral focus the appalling odds against which immigrants and other working people struggled for their share of the American Dream. Denounced by the conservative press as an un-American libel on the meatpacking industry, and condemned for Sinclair's unabashed promotion of Socialism and unionisation as a solution to the exploitation of workers, the book was championed by more progressive thinkers, including then President Theodore Roosevelt, and was a major catalyst to the passing of the Pure Food and Meat Inspection act, which has tremendous impact to this day.
>>

 No.444448

THE AMERICAN EMPIRE WILL COLLAPSE BY 2030
>>

 No.444453

>>444448
Aw fuck lol
>>444444
>>

 No.444873

>>444444
BOO HOO HOO MY NUMBER HAS BEEN TAKEN
>>

 No.444958

bump
>>

 No.445017

Blood Lies by Grover Furr
>>

 No.445025

We have a reading sticky anon, but, hey i am never against a good reading thread.
>>

 No.451000

bump
>>

 No.451232

>>451000
>bumping a sticky
>>

 No.452086

>>452083
>My little pony weirdo

<Telling anyone they have never had a job.

Take it to the right wing debate thread weirdo.
>>

 No.452095

>>452087
Lmao in literally at work right now you retarded pony fag.
>>

 No.452712

>>285223
>Check out the /edu/ thread at https://leftypol.org/edu/res/5576.html
thanks anon, I will. in fact, that website seems a lot better than this one. Think I'll stay there
>>

 No.452748

>>452083
The Labor Theory of Value can be scientifically proven, while supply and demand curves cannot.
>>

 No.453102

testtest
>>

 No.453103

>>285999
can you dg grogger?
>>

 No.453288

>>453103
nawwww nawwww
>>

 No.453502

File: 1639103518065.pdf ( 7.68 MB , 212x300 , How-the-World-Works-The-St….pdf )

new book pdf
>>

 No.453535

>>453502
Holy shit, it's finally out?
>>

 No.454063

>>285223
nice selections
>>

 No.454101

I finally decided I need to stop being such a brainlet and actually do some more reading since it's been a while, so last night I started reading Social Reform or Revolution by Rosa Luxemburg last night. The themes discussed and the positions she argues against seem to show that nothing has changed, or at least nothing positive against capitalism. The working class is still cucked and the majority still claim that things will suddenly change on a massive scale if we ask nicely
>>

 No.454102

>>454101
Can you post a PDF? I think I'll join you. I've been easing manga and I need to start actually reading a good book for once.
>>

 No.454107

File: 1642628117573.pdf ( 226.41 KB , 212x300 , Reform or Revolution.pdf )

>>454102
>>

 No.454108

>>454107
Based and red pilled thanks anon.
>>

 No.454109

File: 1642636388212.jpg ( 2.22 MB , 5044x7618 , Rosa_Luxemburg.jpg )

>>454108
Don't thank me, thank Rosa Luxemburg
>>

 No.455241

>>439498
me
>>

 No.456378

>>439498
I have a bf who's just as much of a sperg as me, just more about nuclear plants and the NT kernel and less about revolutionary things(he aligns with what I say sometimes, other times drinks CIA Kool-aid).
>>

 No.459517

>>456378
>NT kernel
sounds pretty gay unless he's into penetration testing tbh fam
>>

 No.459937

File: 1667203303782.jpg ( 28.74 KB , 424x500 , f234c0b277ef52236e36031a83….jpg )

>>285223
What a load of pathetic garbage. You commies sure are a bunch of loser squares. No one wants to read this irrelevant trifle. The authors of almost all renowned communist literature lived in a completely different economic system to ours, in ancient unfamiliar times. It's worse than the Bible. It's an impediment to leftism.
>>

 No.459948

>>459937
>Jesus Christ look at all the words
lel
>>

 No.460048

File: 1667398158427.pdf ( 3.88 MB , 232x300 , The Future Is Degrowth.pdf )

>>

 No.460091

>>459517
Now he's into algae and how it can be made into fuel efficiently.
>>

 No.460436

Does something like a Hershey's Kiss really never incur as much labor as a pencil? This is a really specific question that might be unanswerable, but that's something surprising to me.
>>

 No.461067

>>460436
Between mining, processing and transporting graphite, cutting, milling, and treating wood, the paint and all that goes into making that, synthesizing the rubber for the eraser, producing and punching out the alloy that forms the little metal bit that holds the eraser in place, and doing everything that is involved in packaging and distributing the finished product, yeah, I imagine that the pencil contaims more socially necessasry labor time.
>>

 No.461796

What the fuck is with liberals and making this pseudo-racism argument about cops in saying that "you can't make mass judgments about every cop because there are a few bad ones. What if I did that to your group?"

I could say "I ain't choose my skin color, they chose their profession," but that feels insufficient. Is it?
>>

 No.461800

>>461796
A better response would be, "if most of them were good, then there would not be any bad ones."
>>

 No.465122

>>461796
Most don't really choose their profession either per se.
>>

 No.466233

File: 1677346407248.jpg ( 138.97 KB , 900x900 , reading_manifesto.jpg )

>>444448
heck yeah火炎焱燚, America is the only thing holding/forcing capitalism worldwide.
>>

 No.466775

Hello, commies! My brain came to the conclusion that I must read commie propaganda. But being a slothful person, reading long books is not my goal in life. So I was wondering: what are good, short commie books? I am currently reading the red book, then I will read the manifest of the commie party and then I will read a book by rosa luxemburg which I can't find in english (un po' di compassione). Anything else, around the 100 pages?
>>461796
Cops are trained to be evil, because criminals are (very often) not cooperative people.
I had to interact with cops very often during my youth, and I can tell you that they are meant to act assertive toward the fellon, while condescending toward the victim.
Someone who is not able to pull off such a masquerade would not become a policeman. Someone who can't scream "FBI OPEN UP" effectively will not become an FBI agent.
The only counterargument you can present is that they must do a quiz before becoming a policeman, where they are "tested" on the topic of morality. Other than the fact that these tests are flawed because they are multiple choice quizzes, the interaction with the culprit is, as I said, preferred to as raw as possible.
If you wanna read more:
https://harvardlawreview.org/2015/04/law-enforcements-warrior-problem/
https://www.jstor.org/stable/42909744
TL;DR cops are trained to act as good people only toward good people.
>>

 No.468850

>>466775
Apart from the Marx & Engels Reading List above, I don't really know what to tell you.
>>

 No.469910

File: 1686091835166.pdf ( 1.74 MB , 67x118 , Israel and Zionism.pdf )

Here's a complete take down of Zionism and Jewish Supremacist Elitism.
It took me forever to finish that bibliography, so when debating Zionazis and their Supremacist lackies, you better be referring back to it.
Now I've down Jewish Supremacism and Zionism, I'll be balanced and work on Islamism next. I am the last standing autistic warrior of 2000s Neo-Atheism.
>>

 No.469911

>>469910
Started reading this after you posted, it's quite shocking. I knew that Israel was extremely brutal towards Palestinians, but i didn't know about the internal brutality in their society. Like having a popular children's game about daring to get run over by cars.
>>

 No.471709

I'm working on the (seemingly) first Spanish translation to Blackshirts and Reds, I'll make an audiobook version too once it's completed. What would you recommend to put it out there so it gets read and doesn't get lost?
>>

 No.471710

File: 1691331344249.webm ( 64.62 KB , 480x360 , cleopatra2525-thumbs-up.webm )

>>471709
Nice

I don't know what license this has.

sites that host public domain license material
https://www.gutenberg.org/
https://archive.org/
https://www.hathitrust.org/
https://standardebooks.org/
https://librivox.org/
http://www.loyalbooks.com/ (lacks network encryption, your isp can see what you do on that site)
https://www.openculture.com
https://www.overdrive.com/

You can upload any text based book to Library genesis.
http://libgen.rs
check this https://librarygenesis.net/ if the above domain doesn't work
If you have a shitty government, probably don't upload from your home internet connection to that site unless you use tor or a decent vpn like mullvad, don't get me wrong the site is great, but they don't censor any books which doesn't make them very popular with shitty governments

obviously you can also upload the audio book on video and audio streaming sites

relatively open platforms
https://peertube.tv/
https://odysee.com/
https://rumble.com/
https://open-video.org/
https://d.tube/
https://www.bitchute.com/

more cooperate platforms
https://www.Youtube.com
https://www.audacy.com/ (doesn't work in the EU)
https://open.spotify.com/ (might have malicious DRM shenanigans)

There's always torrent sites too, you can use those even if you don't have a peg-leg, eye-patch and parrot.
The Pirate Bay (TPB)
RARBG (died a few months ago, it spawned replaced sites but, you gotta be "in the scene" to know which ones are legit)
1337x
LimeTorrents
TorrentDownloads
Torrentz2
YTS
EZTV
TorLock
TorrentGalaxy
copy past these terms into https://searx.fmac.xyz to find the sites
If you go that route maybe ask somebody else how best to do this, my torrent knowhow is perhaps a bit too rusty to give good advice.
>>

 No.471719

>>471710
Amazing, thanks for the pointers.
>>

 No.473099

File: 1694123866177.jpg ( 25.49 KB , 1920x960 , 20230730_214841.jpg )

Any reading guides or just recommendations for DPRK stuff? Could be anything and everything really; actual juche ideology, history, architecture, daily life, inner workings of the state, etc. I just want to learn more about North Korea
>>

 No.473145

File: 1694349501388.png ( 946.68 KB , 783x960 , ClipboardImage.png )

>>473099
>>

 No.473158

>>473145
Quit spamming every thread with your desert fairy tales bullshit.
>>

 No.474908

>>473158 Your gonna burn in Hell, you probably think its okay to be a faggot.
>>

 No.474915

>>474908
theres probably more gay christians than gay communists
>>

 No.474938

>>473099
Fundamentals of Kimilsungism-Kimjongilism, DPRK: Seven Decades of Creation and Changes, On Nationalism, Complete Exposition of the Principles of the Juche Idea are all great reads relating to the DPRK
Also if you want good documentaries Pyongyang Today, My Brothers and Sisters in the North are good starters
Some links
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLegd4KP36a0Y775Xl_HI_tvDKB6qoxPrx
https://bannedthought.net/Korea-DPRK/index.htm
>>

 No.479349

Techno-Capitalism reading list:
Shoshana Zuboff - The age of surveillance capitalism http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=88F4E36A731B1594144F40497AF25C34
Brett Scott - Cloudmoney http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=D8D28B8D622C939973A87B16A5C4EAE6
Yanis Varoufakis - Techno-Feudalism http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=0BA99CA5241D520DCF86C93DF0FFB7C9
Edward Snowden - Permanent Record http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=A5BDA164BB2B8419C57E57012A2F7F82
>>

 No.480742

>>479349
>>

 No.480748

>>480742
interesting docu thx for posting it
>>

 No.482555

File: 1719706747006.jpg ( 183.16 KB , 721x855 , 20240625_211355.jpg )

Any good historical books about how Communists obtained power in the past? I got John Reed's Ten Days just recently on a whim, but he doesn't really go over how the Soviets formed. I want to know more about how soviets and such were built up from nothing, to perhaps draw parallels with how power can be obtained today
>>

 No.482557

>>482555
Does Trotsky cover it at all in his History of the Russian Revolution?
>>

 No.482772

I swear to god it says:
>The new value actually created in the process, the value produced, or the value-product, is therefore not the same as the value of the product;
On page 181 of Capital Volume 1, by Karl Marx

Leftism is retarded because our books are unreadable.
>>

 No.482773

>>482772
>Leftism is retarded because our books are unreadable.
They're unreadable on purpose. The author is gaslighting you into thinking you are too stupid to understand the profound insights of the text. So everybody pretends they understand it to avoid looking stupid infront of their peers.
>>

 No.482774

>>482772
There is value in the machines for producing products, some of that value rubs off. Meaning that some value is transferred from the machine to the product.

Therefore the value of the finished product is the value that was added during production by labor, plus the rubb-off-value the product gets from the machine.

The workers that produce the machines indirectly add value to the products that are produced with the machines. Other workers using the machines to produce stuff add some extra value to it later.

It's part of marx's argument for why capital does not generate value by it self.

In modern economic speak, you'd say
<the manufacturing value-add is not the same as the nominal market-value.
Which in my humble opinion is even more obtuse.

>>482773
>They're unreadable on purpose.
No Marx wrote in the 1800s, his stuff was comprehensible to normal people of that era.
His style is harder to read with modern sensibilities, but it's still better than anything in mainstream economics.

>So everybody pretends they understand
This is not hard to understand, value is added to products in multiple steps, therefore the value added in one step is not the total value of the product. I grant you that it could be worded a lot better.
>>

 No.482775

>>482774
>This is not hard to understand, value is added to products in multiple steps, therefore the value added in one step is not the total value of the product.
Writing it out clearly like this just exposes the bullshit. Because "value" is not a property of the product itself. That's why you pay $200 for a futanari my little pony doll and I would throw it in the trash. The doll doesn't magically change value between the time you see it and I see it. The "value" was never a property of the doll in the first place.
>>

 No.482780

>>482775
The Value theory you are trying to promote is called subjective value theory and it doesn't agree with reality.

Also you have an odd taste, Pony dolls ?
>>

 No.482781

>>482780
>it doesn't agree with reality.
You forgot to make an argument. Just saying it doesn't make it true.

Value is not created by labor value is assigned by individuals. This is proved by the fact that different people buy different things. And different people bid different amounts on the same thing at auctions. A bottle of water is worth $1 in the store and $1,000,000 in the desert. A gamergirl can sell her bathwater for hundreds of dollars and it required zero labor to create. If you own a car and move to new york where parking is very expensive you might pay somebody to take it off your hands. Do I need to go on?
>>

 No.482783

>>482781
You're a retard if you don't agree with the labour theory of value, I don't know what else to say. Educate yourself or fuck off.
>>

 No.482784

>>482773
Lol

>>482774
Thanks. It's eventually possible to understand what is meant if you re-read it a bunch of times but fuck Marx for writing like that, seriously it's going to take forever to finish this book.
>>

 No.482785

>>482783
>You're a retard if you don't agree with the labour theory of value, I don't know what else to say. Educate yourself or fuck off.
Literally zero argument. Not even an attempt. I haven't pwned someone this hard in a while.
>>

 No.482786

>>482781
>You forgot to make an argument.
Fair enough, i guess. Labor theory of value does agree with the economic data. While the other value theories don't. But it's fair to ask for a more elaborate explanation.

>Value is not created by labor value is assigned by individuals.
This is easy to counter, money buys labor power, it's the only thing it buys. All the things you buy, all that money eventually ends up in somebodies hands to make them do stuff. Like if you buy bread, eventually that money goes to a farmer who works the fields. And that's where it stops, the farmer doesn't put money into the ground in return for holding on to the plants and catching the rain. So it's labor all the way down. If there's no slavery in the system, everything that gets produced accumulates production costs as it has to buy labor-power in each step along the production chain. On top of that comes profits for the capitalists. (Slavery is very inefficient at allocating labor-power that's why economies based on wage-labor vastly out-compete slave economies)

The individual customer doesn't assign value, that's why you can't buy a luxury cruise liner for 3 bucks fifty. It requires millions of labor hours to construct a cruise liner. And you can't buy millions of labor hours for a little over 3 bucks. Go try assign 3.5 bucks to a cruise ship and see whether any supply materializes for that price.

>And different people bid different amounts on the same thing at auctions.
This is a ludicrous ideological narrative, commerce doesn't work like an auction, you don't go to the grocery store to bid on a salad, with an auctioneer yelling price-increments and customers holding up numbered-signs to place a bid.
>A bottle of water is worth $1 in the store and $1,000,000 in the desert.
Except that there are no stores in the middle of the desert that sell water bottles for a million. This has nothing to do with the actually existing economy. And while were at it price-gauging is risky, many people would kill for water if they got thirsty enough.
>If you own a car and move to new york where parking is very expensive
Big city parking-prices are caused by a natural monopoly, you pay monopoly rent. That's a hole different story. We can go into the details of that, if you're interested pls ask.
>>

 No.482815

>>482786
>Labor theory of value does agree with the economic data.
That's called painting the target around the arrow. Your "economic data" is a list of products and services that have been successfully sold and then you work backwards and say "ah-ha they all required labor". I've read Cockshott too.

But LTV does not work forwards. You cannot look at how much labor goes into a startup company then predict how much profit it will make. Some will make billions some will go broke. Because labor is not what determines value, it is merely a statistical correlation.

>This is easy to counter, money buys labor power, it's the only thing it buys.
>And that's where it stops, the farmer doesn't put money into the ground in return for holding on to the plants and catching the rain. So it's labor all the way down.
That's because you think "money" is magic paper that falls out of the Fed chair's ass. If I pay the farmer in seeds then he will put it into the ground in return for more plants.

>The individual customer doesn't assign value, that's why you can't buy a luxury cruise liner for 3 bucks fifty.
You can't do that because the seller won't give it to you. If I gave you $100m and you still don't buy it that is you deciding you value the $100m more than the boat. But people do buy boats so there are people in the world who value the boat more than the $100m. You can't explain this discrepancy with LTV.

>It requires millions of labor hours to construct a cruise liner.
>And you can't buy millions of labor hours for a little over 3 bucks.
Remember a few years ago when there was like a virus or something and all the cruise companies went out of business. They were selling off cruise liners for well under cost. A bunch of seasteaders actually bought a $300m ship for $10m. So that's not a valid argument either. When a company fails the creditors will sell off inventory below the price of the labor that went into it. Another example of why LTV is bullshit.

>This is a ludicrous ideological narrative, commerce doesn't work like an auction
You understand that auctions do exist. How does LTV explain why two people bid different amounts for the same product?

>Except that there are no stores in the middle of the desert that sell water bottles for a million.
I'm pretty sure Abu Dhabi does have stores and they do sell water for much more than your local store.
If you're this creatively challenged though I'll spell out a story for you
>you are dying of thirst in the desert
>a man on a camel finds you
>he will sell you a bottle of water for $100
>you buy it because you value your life more than $100
Despite the fact that you pass identical bottles of water in the grocery store, they are all marked $1 and you don't buy them. But the same labor went into every bottle so according to LTV they should all have the same value.

>This has nothing to do with the actually existing economy.
It's a variation on the water diamond paradox. Try reading an economics book that was written this century.

>Big city parking-prices are caused by a natural monopoly, you pay monopoly rent. That's a hole different story. We can go into the details of that, if you're interested pls ask.
Cute. Try defending labor theory of value first because you're not doing a very good job.
>>

 No.482817

>>482815
>Your "economic data" is a list of products and services that have been successfully sold and then you work backwards and say "ah-ha they all required labor". I've read Cockshott too.
Well if you had read Cockshott you'd know that it's a bit more than that, labor-time correlates almost perfectly with value.

>But LTV does not work forwards. You cannot look at how much labor goes into a startup company then predict how much profit it will make.
Socialist economic theory looks a lot further forward, towards the next mode of production. Where the economic calculations are entirely rational and based on labor-time and material resources. Why would socialist economic theory be designed to help capitalists make profits, when the goal is to move past that and have the workers be the ones in controle of the economy. I guess that technically it would be possible to use the LTV that way, but i doubt that the thought ever occurred to a socialist economist. How many capitalist economists do you know that are working on solving economic problems of feudalism ?

>That's because you think "money" is
I think money is the power to command labor-power.
>If I pay the farmer in seeds then he will put it into the ground in return for more plants.
I doubt that you'll be able to pay a farmer in seeds, he'll tell you that he needs money to buy tractor fuel, fertilizer, pesticides and so on. And that money pays the workers in the oil-rig and chemical-plant.

>You can't do that because the seller won't give it to you. If I gave you $100m and you still don't buy it that is you deciding you value the $100m more than the boat. But people do buy boats so there are people in the world who value the boat more than the $100m.
You admitted that customers do not decide the prices, and for the record even huge boats are behaving like commodities predicted by the LTV.

>Remember a few years ago when there was like a virus or something and all the cruise companies went out of business.
You having to scrape the bottom of the barrel for outliers caused by emergency situations proves that the LTV works.
Nobody expects economic theory to predict a plague.

>You understand that auctions do exist.
On the fringes outside of regular commerce, it's not relevant for the economy overall.
>How does LTV explain why two people bid different amounts for the same product?
Individual people can engage in irrational behavior, or simply operate on bad information. The point is this averages out over the entire economy. The goal of doing labor-time calculations is to find the correct prices that yields a good economy for society.

>I'm pretty sure Abu Dhabi does have stores and they do sell water for much more than your local store.
I'm pretty sure the price differential isn't a factor of one million.

>If you're this creatively challenged though I'll spell out a story for you
<camel-man combs through the desert to scam some unlucky bastard with overpriced bottled water.
Contrived hypothetical scenarios are not arguments.

>It's a variation on the water diamond paradox. Try reading an economics book
Most of the mainstream economic text books are written like theology designed to justify capitalism, not explain how it works.
>>

 No.482842

>>482557
I have no clue, I haven't read any Trotsky and don't care much to
>>

 No.482847

>>482842
You don't have to agree with everything Trotsky said or did to find this an invaluable source on history.
>>

 No.482936

Any good books on American syndicalism/socialism? I can barely find anything on the likes of Daniel De Leon
>>

 No.482945

File: 1721151217918.png ( 102.06 KB , 589x871 , e691e9dfafa46ea087f488f912….png )

>>482817
>labor-time correlates almost perfectly with value.
Only if you pick products and services which were sold at a profit. Companies that fail to sell the products for more than labor costs are removed from the market and therefor do not show up in your "economic data". Like I said, this doesn't "prove" LTV it is merely an exercise of working backwards to get the conclusion you want.

>Socialist economic theory looks a lot further forward, towards the next mode of production. Where the economic calculations are entirely rational and based on labor-time and material resources.
Listen to your own cope. Your economic theories don't even work now but you think they will magically start working in an imaginary future.

>Why would socialist economic theory be designed to help capitalists make profits
Because you can't. LTV was debunked by all other schools of economics around 150 years ago.

>I doubt that you'll be able to pay a farmer in seeds
Farmers have more use for seeds than anybody else.

>You admitted that customers do not decide the prices
You decide what has value to you. If you value a cruise ship at 3.5 bucks and somebody is selling one for 3.5 bucks then you will buy it won't you. Your argument that you can't always force somebody to sell at the price you want is missing the point. You only buy the ship if you value the ship more than the money. And the seller only sells if he values the money more than the ship. Both sides need to be happy for the trade to go ahead. That's the magic of free market capitalism. Either both sides win or the trade doesn't happen.

>You having to scrape the bottom of the barrel for outliers caused by emergency situations proves that the LTV works.
Companies get liquidated all the time. You are suffering from survivor bias, you think all companies sell products for more than the labor cost precisely because those are the only companies that survive.

>for the record even huge boats are behaving like commodities predicted by the LTV.
In 2020 a $280m cruise ship called the Pacific Dawn was sold for $10m. LTV cannot even explain this event let alone predict it.

>Individual people can engage in irrational behavior
Aw you're so close just admit it. Value is subjective. People bid $100.000 on air-cooled 911s because they think it's cool, not because that's the value of labor that went into manufacturing the car.

>I'm pretty sure the price differential isn't a factor of one million.
Pick whatever number you want as long as the price is different from the "labor cost" then LTV is wrong.

>It's a variation on the water diamond paradox. Try reading an economics book
Don't chop up quotes like that. I said
>Try reading an economics book that was written this century.
Trying to understand modern economics by reading Marx is like trying to understand quantum physics by reading Aristotle.
>>

 No.482950

>>482945
>Only if you pick products and services which were sold at a profit.
That's generally how capitalism works, you can't really be mad that economic theory reflects this reality.
>Companies that fail to sell the products for more than labor costs are removed from the market and therefor do not show up in your "economic data"
I fail to see the problem. You can't base an economic theory about prices on going-out-of-business-discounts.

>Your economic theories don't even work now
but they do
>LTV was debunked
No there were dishonest attempts at socially discrediting labor-theory, but nobody has refuted it on scientific grounds, because the empirical data supports it.

>Farmers have more use for seeds than anybody else.
You're forgetting flower mills, but farmers can't work for seeds because agriculture is no longer based on subsistence farming, and industrial agriculture require farmers to buy industrial inputs.

>You decide what has value to you.
It's not a valid basis for a price theory. Businesses can't consistently sell commodities below production costs, to accommodate subjective lowball value. Subjective over-valuation doesn't work either because people can't spend more money than they have. All subjective value theorists do, is point at edge-cases. Like a bankruptcy-sale or some rich person with the ability to overpay. But that's not how the bulk of the economy works.

>Pick whatever number you want as long as the price is different from the "labor cost" then LTV is wrong.
You're water-bottle thought-experiment is based on hypothetical premises. Its got nothing to do with real world economics. By the way water is more expensive in Abu Dhabi, because they have to run expensive desalination-plants.

>Trying to understand modern economics by reading Marx is like trying to understand quantum physics by reading Aristotle.
Most of what marx wrote remains true. What Marx got wrong is the profit-equalization-tendency. Marx thought that different economic sectors in capitalism would all tend towards having the same profit-rate, and that appears to be false. It's a really obscure detail that required some minor corrections in the theory. It turns out that the profit-rate falls because of demographic shrinkage, instead of technological factors. And you probably have no idea what i'm talking about.

Modern mainstream economic theory is intended to provide justifications for things that happened after the fact, its a kind of secular theology, it doesn't explain how any of that stuff works. And capitalists don't actually use it to run their businesses. In the corporate world the closest thing to actual economic theory is usually called something like "Operations". It's like psychology that has been converted to sell lots of pills to people, and actual psychology happens in marketing research.
>>

 No.482953

File: 1721161320532.jpeg ( 39.36 KB , 474x545 , th-4115495058.jpeg )

>>482950
>You can't base an economic theory about prices on going-out-of-business-discounts.
Cockshott's 'economic data' only contains established companies with plenty of competition which keeps prices close to cost. I'm sure Honeywell selling nuclear bombs to the government for 1000x over cost is not in the data.

If LTV was "correct" then you should be able to predict how much money a new company will make based on the labor that went in. But you can't. You can only work backwards from carefully selected data.

>I fail to see the problem.
I know, I am basically explaining to a christian why god is not real. Even if you get it on some level you won't admit it.

>Businesses can't consistently sell commodities below production costs, to accommodate subjective lowball value.
That's why you need to sell a product that people subjectively value more than the production cost. Predicting what such a product might be is the job of investors and entrepreneurs.

>Subjective over-valuation doesn't work either because people can't spend more money than they have.
Except most things are sold at a profit.

>subjective value theorists
That's like saying "round earth theorists". Every school of economics mainstream or not switched from labor theory of value to subjective value in the late 1800s.

>point at edge-cases. Like a bankruptcy-sale or some rich person with the ability to overpay. But that's not how the bulk of the economy works.
You don't have to be rich to pay $100 for a funko pop. A little plastic toy of your favorite marval superman character does not cost $100 of labor to manufacture. And a toy of a less popular character will sell for less despite taking the same amount of materials and the same amount of labor by the same workers in the same factory. You pay $5 for a dvd of a movie which cost $100m to make. There are so many exceptions it is your cherry-picked data where LTV "works" that is the edge case.

>You're water-bottle thought-experiment is based on hypothetical premises.
Fine I'll give you another one. Water in the store is $1 a bottle. You have $100. According to LTV every bottle has identical value so there is no rational reason to buy 1-99 bottles. You either buy 0 because the money is "worth" more or you buy 100 because the water is "worth" more.

This is where the marginal revolution comes in. You buy 1 bottle because you have 0 bottles and you subjectively value 1 bottle more than $1. Now that you already have 1 bottle the 2nd bottle is subjectively worth less to you. The marginal utility of each additional bottle goes down until the Nth bottle is no longer worth more than $1 to you so you stop adding them to your cart.

>Most of what marx wrote remains true.
Marx lived under a gold standard before fiat currency, central banks, keynesianism, globalism or any of our modern financial infrastructure. Even if Marx was right about anything he was living in a completely different world. Marxism can't explain inflation for example because inflation didn't exist when Marx was alive.
>>

 No.482963

>>482953
>If LTV was "correct" then you should be able to predict how much money a new company will make based on the labor that went in. But you can't. You can only work backwards from carefully selected data.
You don't seem to understand at all what the labor theory of value actually attempts to predict. It does not make any sort of predictions about the prices of things at a granular level. Please stop attacking a straw man and actually learn about the model you're attempting to critique. It's really tiresome how often this issue arises in low-level debates where right-wing dogmatists can't seem to cross the most basic of mental hurdles to understand that the word "value" for Marx (and other classical economists of his period) had an entirely different meaning from the word "price".
>>

 No.482966

>>482953
>Cockshott's 'economic data' only contains established companies with plenty of competition which keeps prices close to cost. I'm sure Honeywell selling nuclear bombs to the government for 1000x over cost is not in the data.
<The government subjectively over-values nukes by a factor of a thousand.
You're a clown, the military industrial complex uses corruption and blackmail, to juice procurement. Subjective value my ass.
>you should be able to predict how much money a new company will make
Why do you insist about complaining that socialist economic theory isn't designed to help individual capitalists make investment decisions. Of course it's not it's designed to help workers understand the hole of the economy.

>That's why you need to sell a product that people subjectively value more than the production cost. Predicting what such a product might be is the job of investors and entrepreneurs.
>Except most things are sold at a profit.
I see where your confusion comes from. Profits come from exploiting labor.

>Every school of economics mainstream or not switched from labor theory of value to subjective value in the late 1800s.
Because the bourgeoisie realized the political implications of admitting that economic value comes from labor. OMG a ruling class embracing a lie that justifies their rule. Absolutely Shocking.

> $100 for A little plastic toy
Stuff like this can only exist because of copy-monopoly-rent. It's copy-monopoly-capitalists stealing profits from their competitors.

>Fine I'll give you another one. Water in the store is $1 a bottle. You have $100. According to LTV every bottle has identical value so there is no rational reason to buy 1-99 bottles. You either buy 0 because the money is "worth" more or you buy 100 because the water is "worth" more.
WTF ?
What does negative 98 bottles even mean ? and Why do you think anybody would buy a 100 bottles of water if they needed only 1. Do you seriously expect people to speculate with water-bottles like they do with stock-certificates ?
>This is where the marginal revolution comes in. You buy 1 bottle because you have 0 bottles and you subjectively value 1 bottle more than $1. Now that you already have 1 bottle the 2nd bottle is subjectively worth less to you.
Cool ideological story bro, but unless you can calculate the marginal utility of commodity, i'm going to say it's made up words.

>Marx lived under a gold standard before fiat currency, central banks, keynesianism, globalism or any of our modern financial infrastructure. Even if Marx was right about anything he was living in a completely different world. Marxism can't explain inflation for example because inflation didn't exist when Marx was alive.
Marx thought money buys labor-power, that is still true. And inflation also existed in the 1800s
>>

 No.482970

>>482953
>Every school of economics mainstream or not switched from labor theory of value to subjective value in the late 1800s.
Ah yes, the Counter-Enlightenment. Members of the ruling class got a little too uncomfortable the logical conclusions of classical political economy so they started funding stooges to sap all the empiricism out of economics and replace it with unfalsifiable naval gazing and cheerleading.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120505232458/https://michael-hudson.com/2010/05/neoliberalism-and-the-counter-enlightenment/
>>

 No.483021

File: 1721336800335.jpg ( 52.35 KB , 460x585 , da9a135bbb41d8fd2cc20ad408….jpg )

>>482963
>It does not make any sort of predictions about the prices of things at a granular level.
Because it can't. Because it's wrong.

><The government subjectively over-values nukes by a factor of a thousand.
They don't value the nukes at all they value the kickbacks they get from the military contractors for using tax money they stole from workers to overpay for equipment.

>corruption
Correct. The fact that they are not spending their own money changes things a little but not really.

>You're a clown
It must be frustrating when somebody is tearing apart your religion with facts and logic but you have to be better.

>I see where your confusion comes from. Profits come from exploiting labor.
<buy gold for $1 an ounce
<wait 100 years
<sell for $3000
Where is the labor.

>Because the bourgeoisie realized the political implications of admitting that economic value comes from labor.
Not every school of economics is on the side of the "bourgeoisie". I want the throw bankers out of a helicopter more than you do.

>Stuff like this can only exist because of copy-monopoly-rent.
The prices are inflated by intellectual property but not created by it. Micky Mouse still sells for more than Goofy because people like Micky Mouse more.

>What does negative 98 bottles even mean ?
Pretending I said something stupid doesn't make me stupid. It just makes you a pathetic liar.

>Why do you think anybody would buy a 100 bottles of water if they needed only 1.
<You either buy 0 because the money is "worth" more or you buy 100 because the water is "worth" more.

>unless you can calculate the marginal utility of commodity, i'm going to say it's made up words
Guess what, it's subjective. Like you just said, it depends on how many bottles you need.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_utility

>>482970
I sympathize with your point that the "ruling class" funds academic research that preserves their power (keynesianism, global warming, critical race theory etc.). But when every school of economics switches that is precisely the opposite, that is more like a galilo moment when the church can no longer suppress the truth.
>>

 No.483024

>>482963
> It does not make any sort of predictions about the prices of things at a granular level.
>>483021
Because it can't.
I've thought about this for a while, and i think it might actually be possible to make these detailed calculations, if we could persuade companies to give us all the low-level information. It would also require modeling the fluctuations in the markets which would be something new to figure out.

>They don't value the nukes at all they value the kickbacks they get from the military contractors for using tax money they stole from workers to overpay for equipment.
>Correct. The fact that they are not spending their own money changes things a little but not really.
You're too deep into ideology, you don't need economic theory to realize that the war-biz is a racket.

>buy gold for $1 an ounce
>wait 100 years
>sell for $3000
By that logic everybody in the economy is wrong to produce goods and services. They should just buy gold and wait, the economy would grow by a factor of 3000 every century.

>Not every school of economics is on the side of the "bourgeoisie". I want the throw bankers out of a helicopter more than you do.
I want the means of production.

>The prices are inflated by intellectual property but not created by it. Micky Mouse still sells for more than Goofy because people like Micky Mouse more.
Are there any plastic figurines that are genuine textbook commodities ? I mean without copy monopoly rent ? I would like to look at some real world data first.

>You either buy 0 because the money is "worth" more or you buy 100 because the water is "worth" more.
I think your 100 bottles examples is just divorced from reality.

>marginal utility
>Guess what, it's subjective.
<It's magic i ain't gotta explain shit
If you can't calculate the marginal utility of a commodity, what's the point of including it in your economic theory ?

>Like you just said, it depends on how many bottles you need.
are you saying marginal utility = need ?
>>

 No.483027

>>483021
>it can't cuz it's wrong
So a theory is wrong because it doesn't attempt to predict something that you'd like it to? Why doesn't Darwin's theory of evolution by natural descent explain gravity? Must be wrong!

>But when every school of economics switches that is precisely the opposite
Well now you're simply making shit up, because in reality there are still plenty of Marxist economists around the world who take very seriously Marx's labor theory of value. It's an easy way to out yourself as an American though, because only there has economics academia been so harshly exclusionary towards Marxists. Not completely though, you can still find Marxist economists in small pockets of resistance like the New School and University of Missouri-Kansas City.
>>

 No.483038

File: 1721415918976.jpg ( 32.08 KB , 460x368 , 62c4b09130f747bf4aa00e753d….jpg )

>>483024
>You're too deep into ideology, you don't need economic theory to realize that the war-biz is a racket.
LTV can't explain why government overpays for equipment. Subjective value and marginal utility is a better model for explaining real world behavior.

>By that logic everybody in the economy is wrong to produce goods and services. They should just buy gold and wait, the economy would grow by a factor of 3000 every century.
You didn't answer the question. You said profit comes from "exploiting" labor. Where is the labor in this scenario?

>I want the means of production.
You already have the means of production. Computer programmers make 6 figures using a computer just like the one you use to look at furry porn. The OS, compiler and libraries are all free and open source. What's your excuse now.

>Are there any plastic figurines that are genuine textbook commodities ?
Movies and anime and tv shows and video games would still exist in a world without IP. And fans will still buy plastic figures of popular characters. Without government interventions market competition might push the prices down to $5 instead of $50. It doesn't change my point though which is that popular characters will fetch a higher price despite the same labor going into each toy. That's because value is determined by the individual.

>I think your 100 bottles examples is just divorced from reality.
It's a scenario that breaks LTV.

><It's magic i ain't gotta explain shit
It's not magic it's subjective. Only you know what ratio of dollars to water you want. Just like how only you know if you want strawberry or vanilla ice cream.

>If you can't calculate the marginal utility of a commodity, what's the point of including it in your economic theory ?
It explains real world behavior better than LTV. Your decision to buy one bottle instead of two has nothing at all to do with the labor that went into making the bottles. When there is a clearance sale the production cost doesn't even factor into the seller's price either.

>are you saying marginal utility = need ?
No marginal utility is the diminishing gains from acquiring more of something you already have. It explains why you would rather have 1 bottle + $1 rather than 2 bottles + $0.

>>483027
>So a theory is wrong because it doesn't attempt to predict something that you'd like it to?
You're the one who said LTV "agrees" with the economic data >>482786. I'm saying it only agrees with a carefully selected subset of economic data and only post hoc. i.e. it has no predictive capability.

>there are still plenty of Marxist economists around the world who take very seriously Marx's labor theory of value
It's not Marx's labor theory of value it's Adam Smith's labor theory of value. And counting marxism as a school of economics is debatable but ok. Apart from marxists nobody else has taken LTV seriously since 150 years.

>economics academia been so harshly exclusionary towards Marxists
Universities wouldn't be able to charge outrageous tuition fees in the free market. Their scam depends on government guaranteeing the student loans with tax money. For that reason all of academia is fundamentally left-wing by nature.
>>

 No.483039

>>483038
>You're the one who said
In fact there's more than one anon in here who think your arguments are retarded.
>>

 No.483040

File: 1721416924712.png ( 40.14 KB , 715x387 , rate of profit, 14 core co….png )

>>483038
>it has no predictive capability.
The labor theory of value makes about a dozen predictions, they're just not the kind of predictions you're interested in. One of them that has been strongly empirically validated at this point is the long-term tendency of profitability to decline in industrial capital sectors. No other economic theory has anything to say about this phenomenon and doesn't make this prediction.
>>

 No.483041

>>483038
You have a very biased view about how individual departments are funded in academia. For Economics departments it's generally not tuition fees. Economics departments have a long tradition of being propped up by massive endowments contributed by bankers and industrialists. They are arguably the single most political focal point of universities, because they produce the future government policy makers that will either protect or threaten their donors' fortunes. And for this very reason they tend to be fundamentally right-wing by nature.
>>

 No.483043

>>483038
>LTV can't explain why government overpays for equipment.
Arms-industry got privatized and they're bribing the people who decide the budget and dole out contracts. There's nothing subjective about it.

>You didn't answer the question. You said profit comes from "exploiting" labor. Where is the labor in this scenario?
In the scenario where everybody hordes gold, the economy collapses, proving the point that no labor means no profits

>You already have the means of production.
I phrased that badly, the goal of socialism is for the workers to controle the majority of means of production on a society level.

>Movies and anime and tv shows and video games would still exist in a world without IP.
Honestly there probably would be more entertainment in a world without IP. Funding for entertainment would shift to a plethora of crowdfunding schemes. That business-model favors lots of mid sized productions that more accurately target the taste of specific groups, rather than mega productions that do lowest common denominator.

>competition might push the prices down to $5 instead of $50.
Agreed
>It doesn't change my point though which is that popular characters will fetch a higher price despite the same labor going into each toy.
that is just speculation on your part.

>It's a scenario that breaks LTV.
The scenario where somebody goes into a store and decides to buy 100 bottles of water because it's so cheap, that's just not what happens in reality.

>It's not magic it's subjective. Only you know what ratio of dollars to water you want. Just like how only you know if you want strawberry or vanilla ice cream.
This is useless for economic theory. For a economy you just need to know how many of a given product you need to produce, and for that you only need a few feedback mechanisms.

>marginal utility is the diminishing gains from acquiring more of something you already have.
There are no diminishing gains for more energy.
>>

 No.483086

File: 1721672925590.jpg ( 78.27 KB , 1200x900 , Gas-Flaring-in-Nigeria.jpg )

>>483040
>One of them that has been strongly empirically validated at this point is the long-term tendency of profitability to decline in industrial capital sectors.
Why would LTV predict that? If you ask me, the fact that the richest countries in the world have almost no labor or manufacturing capacity would be another nail in the coffin for "all value comes from labor". I mean, labor is so irrelevant to the modern economy you have a $15 minimum wage and literally nobody cares enough to lobbying against it.

Also a prediction means "it is 2024, I predict in 2029 we will see X happen because of theory Y". I see a lot of lefty "predictions" that are simply taking the data and working backwards like we could have predicted this so let's pretend we did.

>>483041
>And for this very reason they tend to be fundamentally right-wing by nature.
What do you mean "right-wing" though? Everything the state does now is out of the communist manifesto (fiat money, central banking, progressive taxes, insanely high minimum wage and labor protections). What part of the economy do you look at and say "damn the free market capitalists totally run this shit". Here's the thing, the ruling class want socialism too, they just want a version of socialism where they plan the economy for their benefit instead of "the people".

>>483043
>Arms-industry got privatized and they're bribing the people who decide the budget and dole out contracts. There's nothing subjective about it.
The socialist bureaucrats subjectively value Honeywell's bribes more than GE's bribes. The point you are supposed to be proving is that that labor that went into the products is what determines "value".

>In the scenario where everybody hordes gold, the economy collapses, proving the point that no labor means no profits
I didn't say everybody hordes gold I said one guy bought it and sat on it for a while before selling again for a higher price. If profits come from labor and this person made a profit then where is the labor?

>I phrased that badly, the goal of socialism is for the workers to controle the majority of means of production on a society level.
lol of course. In the mean time why don't you just take the MOP you already control and use it to prove how much better socialism is?

>that is just speculation on your part.
Trump sells for $400 https://www.ebay.com/itm/135135258065
Bernie sells for $30 https://www.ebay.com/itm/375551055269
Did it really take $370 more labor to make the trump one?

>The scenario where somebody goes into a store and decides to buy 100 bottles of water because it's so cheap, that's just not what happens in reality.
Why not? If the real "value" was $2 why wouldn't you buy everything you can afford and then sell them to double your money? Ok obviously leftists are financially illiterate by definition but you understand that a rival retailer would do that if "objective value" was a real thing and somebody tried to sell something below that value. 'That is the thing that doesn't happen in reality because objective value doesn't exist.

> For a economy you just need to know how many of a given product you need to produce, and for that you only need a few feedback mechanisms.
One of those feedback mechanisms being people telling you what they subjectively want.

>There are no diminishing gains for more energy.
If you have solar panels in your house and they are generating more energy than you use right now then you can sell the excess to the grid. The price you get depends on demand. If the grid is already full then the price can fall to zero or even negative (they pay you to take excess energy out of the grid and store it). That's an example of diminishing gains for more energy. Energy is actually quite an obvious one because it is so difficult to store, miners literally burn off excess gas and oil on site.
>>

 No.483090

File: 1721680460165.jpg ( 480.65 KB , 1440x1920 , 1719251640717725.jpg )

>>483086
That anon dsidn't say that. The general tendency of the rate of profit to decline over time doesn't have anything to do directly with what you are talking about, kek. Over all profit declines exactly because capitalists, in their ineffable myopia, are in a race to the bottom. Everyone wants to remove labor from the equation and increase their short term profits because capitalists cannot think in the long term. This can only be done through technological innovation. But the issue is that because of how labor works as a commodity in the economy; The only commodity in the economy that can produce MORE than you actually have to expend to put into it you find less and less capital flowing through out the economy over time.

Thus, in a general sense, capitalists are able to squeeze less and less profits out of consumers purchasing their products because in their own myopic race to the bottom they are hanging themselves by doing exactly that; Removing labor from the equation.
>>

 No.483093

>>483086
> subjectively value Honeywell's bribes more than GE's bribes.
Sounds like you are trying to over-extend your ideology. If you want to claim that the military industrial complex bribing for contracts is just a regular market transaction, then you are saying that markets suck at finding prices and allocating resources. All those boondoggles… Are you sure, you want to make corruption into a regular transaction ? I don't think that helps your argument.
>The point you are supposed to be proving is that that labor that went into the products is what determines "value".
If you look at regular commerce value does correlate with labor-time almost perfectly.

>I didn't say everybody hordes gold I said one guy bought it and sat on it for a while before selling again for a higher price. If profits come from labor and this person made a profit then where is the labor?
The point was to show you that if you remove all the labor from the system, the profits go away, and your value-voodoo doesn't work anymore.

>In the mean time why don't you just take the MOP you already control and use it to prove how much better socialism is?
If i build something, how does that prove anything about socialism ?

>Did it really take $370 more labor to make the trump one?
If we look at the economy as a hole, it does correlate with labor time. I don't know why you think pointing out the fluctuations helps your argument.

>Why not? If the real "value" was $2 why wouldn't you buy everything you can afford and then sell them to double your money?
>a rival retailer would do that
See there's the problem i don't have a retail store, that lets me re-sell water-bottles and "double my money". I'd just be stuck with a pile of water-bottles.

>One of those feedback mechanisms being people telling you what they subjectively want.
The feedback systems only have the purpose to help determine the quantity of production. That's an objective measure. I doubt that you can draw any conclusions about internal mental states of people based on that.

>If you have solar panels in your house and they are generating more energy than you use right now then you can sell the excess to the grid. The price you get depends on demand. If the grid is already full then the price can fall to zero or even negative (they pay you to take excess energy out of the grid and store it). That's an example of diminishing gains for more energy.
No this shit only happens because energy grids are neglected infrastructure. If you add more grid interconnections, and more transmission capacity, this dynamic vanishes.
>>

 No.483109

File: 1721756399644.jpg ( 26.15 KB , 460x316 , 9557639d1abe098ab6c68b9d5c….jpg )

>>483090
>no green text
I don't know what you are responding to specifically.

>>483093
>If you want to claim that the military industrial complex bribing for contracts is just a regular market transaction, then you are saying that markets suck at finding prices and allocating resources.
What "market"? Only a selected few corporations are permitted to manufacture weapons in the first place. And for the side who thinks all value comes from labor you seem to have a hard time comprehending that the government does not do any labor. The state stole everything they have from workers.

>Are you sure, you want to make corruption into a regular transaction ?
My arguments for subjective value and marginal utility work fine once you realize what the real transaction is.

>If you look at regular commerce value does correlate with labor-time almost perfectly.
In other words this is another "corner case" that happens all the time but LTV can't explain.

>The point was to show you that if you remove all the labor from the system, the profits go away, and your value-voodoo doesn't work anymore.
And what was my point? You changed the subject because you couldn't address my original point.

>If i build something, how does that prove anything about socialism ?
You tell me what the plan is
>seize the means of production
>???
>SOCIALISM
What is stopping you from applying socialist principles to improve your life on a small scale? Why does it only "work" after you've conquered the whole world? A cynic might get the idea that socialism doesn't work it is merely a blueprint for dictators to acquire power.

>If we look at the economy as a hole, it does correlate with labor time.
Except all the "corner cases" I mentioned. Government spending, auctions, clearance sales, price gauging, popular characters selling for more than unpopular characters and every startup that doesn't make it or established company that goes broke. You're saying if we ignore all that then LTV "correlates" to whatever is left.

>I doubt that you can draw any conclusions about internal mental states of people based on that.
What's exactly why planned economies don't work. You can't read other people's minds.

>No this shit only happens because energy grids are neglected infrastructure.
It happens because energy loads fluctuate. When the football half time whistle blows, power plants spin up production because 30 million people are about to run into the kitchen to put the kettle on. But not all energy spikes and troughs are predictable like that. You can't read everybody's minds to know exactly how much electricity they need in 1 hour's time. All you can do is guess and then shed the extra load if you over estimated.
>>

 No.483113

>>483109
>What "market"? Only a selected few corporations are permitted to manufacture weapons in the first place.
I guess the restricted options for supply was caused by another one of those "subjectivities". s/
You wanted to shoe-horn corruption into economic theory, i warned against that.
>And for the side who thinks all value comes from labor
Go ahead conceptually subtract all the labor from the economy, it just poofs out of existence.
>you seem to have a hard time comprehending that the government does not do any labor. The state stole everything they have from workers.
Well you can have public enterprises that are productive. When it comes to weapons production, state-run arms-industry tends to produce weapons that have more bang for the buck. Pun intended.
>My arguments for subjective value and marginal utility work fine once you realize what the real transaction is.
Unless you can define real vs unreal transactions imma file this under mental gymnastics.
>regular commerce
>is another "corner case"
Now you're inverting the reality, you're the one bringing up corner cases to justify your value-theory.
LTV works for the bulk of the economy, the default case.

>What is stopping you from applying socialist principles
>on a small scale?
Socialist principles mean the workers own the means of production. The bourgeois state won't let workers do that, they get really mad if you go expropriating capitalists even on a small scale.
Are you pulling my leg ?

>Government spending, auctions, clearance sales, price gauging, popular characters selling for more than unpopular characters and every startup that doesn't make it or established company that goes broke. You're saying if we ignore all that then LTV "correlates" to whatever is left.
I could write a wall of text to cover all your examples, however before we do the long-winded technical breakdown, lets try another perspective:
The economy works by extracting resources from the environment and it transforms those into commodities with labor-power. Within this flow of transforming matter an energy, money only interacts with labor-power. There is an illusion that money commands things, but have you ever tried paying a thing to do something ?

>What's exactly why planned economies don't work. You can't read other people's minds.
The point is that economic planning doesn't need to read minds. A fully developed planned economy operates on the basis that people give it instructions. Think of it like pre-ordering, but on the level of the hole economy not just individual commodities.

You know who's actually trying to read minds ? Marketing !

>When the football half time whistle blows, power plants spin up production because 30 million people are about to run into the kitchen to put the kettle on
That's just flawed technology design, it would be much easier to have insulated kettles that maintain a small supply of near-boiling temperature water, those would spread the load, and not produce energy spikes in the grid that require all that faffing about. All the thermal power-plants could have thermal buffer storage, between the heat-source and the generators, so that it's possible to spin up extra generators if the need arises without having to over-build the power plant.
>>

 No.483117

Water is actually a relatively poor means of storing energy due to its small range of temperatures where it can remain a liquid. Far better to store power for load fluctuations with a molten salt.
>>

 No.483119

>>483117
>Water is actually a relatively poor means of storing energy due to its small range of temperatures where it can remain a liquid. Far better to store power for load fluctuations with a molten salt.
I agree that something like molten salt is the way to go for thermal buffer storage in a power-plant.

However for a water-kettle in your kitchen, molten-salt is total overkill. A insulated temperature controlled kettle that just keeps a quantity of hot water is fine.
>>

 No.483133

File: 1721843070764.png ( 236.28 KB , 1000x533 , 9cba16b95f9ae619794466ed32….png )

>>483113
>I guess the restricted options for supply was caused by another one of those "subjectivities"
No the government artificially restricts competition to benefit the existing corporations. That's what government regulations are, they do not exist to protect the citizens from the big evil corporations, they exist to protect the big evil corporations from free market competition.

>You wanted to shoe-horn corruption into economic theory, i warned against that.
I don't understand what your problem is, corruption is a thing that exists in the world and you have to be able to account for it. You can't just say "that's not how things are supposed to work therefor I don't need to explain it".

>Go ahead conceptually subtract all the labor from the economy
That's actually a dumb argument. If you were stranded on a desert island with no society or evil capitalism you still need to do labor to keep yourself alive. You might as well say that without oxygen there would be no economy therefor all value comes from oxygen.

>Well you can have public enterprises that are productive. When it comes to weapons production, state-run arms-industry
Didn't we literally just go over this.
>government steals taxes from the workers
>politicians give money to buddies in private industry
>private industry funds politician's next election
>muh productivity
This is literally a scam. They are scamming you. The only reason Elon Musk is a billionaire is because you pay taxes.

>Unless you can define real vs unreal transactions imma file this under mental gymnastics.
A politician and a honeywell sales rep are not trading huge amounts of public money for nukes. They are trading political influence in exchange for a personal bribe. I already warned you about this playing dumb stuff. You're only embarrassing yourself.

>LTV works for the bulk of the economy, the default case.
<Government spending, auctions, clearance sales, price gauging, popular characters selling for more than unpopular characters and every startup that doesn't make it or established company that goes broke
My theory accounts for all voluntary transactions. Your's only accounts for a carefully selected subset. My theory is superior to yours. It's as simple as that.

>A fully developed planned economy operates on the basis that people give it instructions.
And what do you do when everybody wants a Ferrari? You understand the whole point of economics is to manage scarce resources. If you're already living in your post-scarcity higher communism utopia where everything you want magically falls from the sky you don't need any kind of economic system to manage that situation.

>You know who's actually trying to read minds ? Marketing !
What do you think marketing is. It is the job of investors and entrepreneurs to predict what market wants. And the ones who get it right gain money and the ones who get it wrong lose money. One of the many problems with central planning is that the planners do not suffer when they get things wrong, it is everybody else who is forced to suffer instead. As a smart lady once said, picrel.

>hat's just flawed technology design, it would be much easier to have insulated kettles that maintain a small supply of near-boiling temperature water, those would spread the load, and not produce energy spikes in the grid that require all that faffing about.
Yes I know if reality was different then you would be right. You have to live in the reality you live in though. A reality with scarcity and trafeoffs.

Unique IPs: 227
[Return][Catalog][Top][Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ overboard / sfw / alt / cytube] [ leftypol / b / WRK / hobby / tech / edu / ga / ent / 777 / posad / i / a / R9K / dead ] [ meta ]
ReturnCatalogTopBottomHome