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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1692337804966.jpg ( 267.7 KB , 1366x2048 , 00pol-vivek-jvkg-superJumb….jpg )

 No.472361[Reply]

Which burger dark horse outsider presidential candidate are you stanning this election cycle, and why is it pic related?
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 No.472944

File: 1693547018612.mp4 ( 5 MB , 488x360 , WaajI61_WpXJvWMX.mp4 )

No wonder every media outlet smears this guy so hard. He names names
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 No.472945

>>472944
Shame he's a Zioncuck.
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 No.472949

>>472945
Never understood the attempts by politicians to cozy up to Israel. As a friend/ally, they're about as trustworthy as the US itself.
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 No.472950

>>472361
Cornel West
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 No.472951

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>>472950

File: 1693167587686.jpg ( 335.79 KB , 1080x2046 , Screenshot_2023-08-28-03-1….jpg )

 No.472828[Reply]

In the Marxist sense, what class do people who work in the diversity and equity field belong to? Proletariat? Petty-bourgeoisie? PMC? Something else?

I'm a retard. Help me figure it out.
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 No.472836

File: 1693198591331.jpg ( 540.82 KB , 932x2174 , Screenshot_2023-08-28-11-5….jpg )

Idol sisters… I don't feel so good..
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 No.472925

>>472828
labor aristocracy
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 No.472926

>>472828
PMC is not a class. It's a meme from reactionary settler angry that capitalism isn't working FOR THEM.
Nurses are considered PMCs for God's sake.
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 No.472929

>>472926
Source?
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 No.472930

>>472926
>PMC is not a class
True.
The PMC acronym used to mean professional military contractor.
It would have been better to say PMS - Professional Managerial Strata, to avoid the overlap
But it appears that the PMC label stuck, so the next best choice is PMC - Professional Managerial Cast

>settler
Settlerism is almost extinct, it still exists in a few places like in Palestine where Zionists are trying to displace Palestinians. The attempt at turning this into a cultural identity is ruling class divide and conquer idpol. It's super reactionary.

>angry that capitalism isn't working for them
Most opposition to capitalism tends to be motivated by self-interest.

>Nurses are considered
Service workers, and repairing people is considered productive work.

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 No.2325[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

As asked by these users
>>1017224
>>1017227
>>1017239
>>1017242
Decided to make an Africa General
Some more or less /ourguys/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_(Algeria)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPLA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congolese_Party_of_Labour
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Rally_for_Progress
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Progressive_Party_(Guyana)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militant_Socialist_Movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FRELIMO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWAPO
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 No.471575

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>>471569
>It's always better to make things worse
I have to say your political program is utter dogshit.

>What happened to leftoid extremism?
Today pretty much all extremisms are based on politics that generate or maintain extreme wealth differentials between the super-rich and the rest of society. Another way to frame is that extremisms spring from various attempt of imposing or upholding the imposition of extreme wealth differentials.

Communist, socialists and leftists generally do not accept these politics and hence the more economically left you go the less extreme your politics become.
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 No.471589

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>>471575
This is very true and the older I have gotten the more I have begun to understand and accept this.
Take smashing windows for exampke; Smashing windows and riot porn were some of the first things that actually got me into left wing anarchism in the first place but as I got older I realized that most people are just extremely off put by this behavior and it actually gives the right more ammunition and is more self serving and ultra than anything. Now I tend to understand that this behavior actually enforces the mechanisms of capitalism by further emboldening reactionary ideology and giving more ammunition to our class enemies.
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 No.471642

File: 1691189809843.pdf ( 70.73 KB , 182x300 , Rooftop Koreans - Wikipedi….pdf )

>>471589
And why are people off-put by this behavior?
Granted, most people are lemmings, but many non-lemmings seem to hate this as well.
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 No.472317

File: 1692284427594.jpg ( 132.11 KB , 590x392 , s-s-sip.jpg )

>>471568
Perhaps.
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 No.472916

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Wake up babe

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 No.472838[Reply]

Europe and US are seeing a dramatic increase of attacks against digital freedom. Those anti-laws violate the freedom from censorship, surveillance, political persecution as well as represent infringements on privacy, free expression, intellectual freedom and sometimes even personal property.

Those laws are blatantly illegal, and because of that they use deceptive language to obfuscate the criminal aspects. There usually is some cynical alibi feature like child protection, scam protection, and so on. Some very unfortunate people involved in these schemes definitely have genuine intend to seek some benefit for society, but it's probably mostly cynical, especially on the political side. All the double-speak crypto politics of these anti-laws make it a strange beast that is hard to describe accurately.

It appears that almost all the motivations for implementing these criminal structures are at present political, moral or ideological. But that will fade away over time, and what's going to remain will become a big digital protection racket, Imho. Mafia type economics seem by far the most likely economic-circuit to reproduce these structures. From a historical perspective there is a recurring theme where certain people unleash things like this and then it gets taken over and repurposed by other people.

I think overcoming all of this will be a long struggle, and in order for that to succeed, we have to take into account how that phenomenon will change over time. There also is uncertainty whether or not this is connected to tech monopoly capital trying to close off the internet.

In the past there were lots of protection rackets in meat-space, those seem to have gone away for the most part, how did that actually happen ?
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 No.472907

>>472901
>the chat control law
Would make the entire internet illegal, it's not possible to comply with this, and it's not possible to enforce it either.

What's the purpose of this, is this just ignorance and incompetence coming from old technology illiterate people or is there method to the madness ? Is this an attempt to break up the European Union by making it incompatible with the internet ?
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 No.472908

File: 1693330530908.png ( 66.12 KB , 827x814 , legaltux.png )

>>472901
>But one little talked about consequence of the proposed law is that it makes practically all existing open source operating systems illegal, including all major Linux distributions.

<Update: Open source OSes might be saved from being covered depending on the interpretation of EU regulation 2019/1150 2.2.c.

<To be considered an online intermediation service it requires a contractual relationship between the service and any businesses using it. The open source licenses regulating the distribution of the software are legal agreements between the copyright holders and the distributors. Even so, a liberal interpretation might consider that not to count based on the nature of the agreements

Hmm there is an update in the article that says it might not apply to linux.
Anybody understand enough legalese to weigh in on this ?
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 No.472909

>>472838

This stuff is incredibly creepy, and I really hate how they coat it in "think of the children" rhetoric.
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 No.472910

>>472838
>incredibly creepy,
Indeed.

I dunno , maybe we should co-opt their rhetoric. All the holes they're trying to poke into privacy protecting measures could also be used by predators to attack children.

So how about
<Think of the children's privacy
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 No.472911

>>472910
meant for >>472909
dammit

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 No.472837[Reply]

<Rate this statement

I'm an oldfag. I was talking to an ancientfag. he said something that made me think: capitalism is best when it has robust social programs, education, and safety nets, and communism is best when it has markets and multiparty elections.

What do you guys think about that claim
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 No.472894

>>472837
>capitalism is best when it has robust social programs, education, and safety nets, and communism is best when it has markets and multiparty elections, and communism is best when it has markets and multiparty elections.

First statement: yes, absolutely.
Also, present-day capitalism produces enough that it could have robust social programs, capitalists just put a bunch of effort into scrapping them and crushing labor power. We would not be any more exploitative if we brought welfare back or had better public healthcare in America, workers in America would just be better off and the richest guys would have a little less in their treasure hoards. There is not a moral reward for American workers getting fucked over, we're just worse off than we need to be so a few capitalists can be richer than they already were. Capitalism is generally best with robust social programs, education, and safety nets - although I think you could one-up the previous-best by going after rentseeking.

Second statement: I'm nitpicking, but I don't think communism-with-markets-and-multi-party-elections has existed. Yugoslavia under Tito sounded very impressive, and I think it's a decent case for state market socialism, but I wouldn't call it communist personally.

>>472872
>exist only in your conspiratard rightoid feverish mind lol

Are you literally insane?
Not that anon, but what fucking universe are you from where neo-conservatism never happened? Are you posting from the 1950s?

Where the fuck does this site find these posters?
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 No.472903

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>>472894
>Are you literally insane?
Great, another dumbfuck leftoid is here to give his very important opinion lol

>muh rentseeking
lol

OF COURSE nazoid would obsess over some Big Other section of the bourgeoisie that is ruining everything in makret wonderland kek

funny little piece of historical trivia: one of the main arguments against Jews was that they were "rentseekers" too kek

I's like they make you in a lab or something lmao

>Yugoslavia under Tito sounded very impressive
Yes, very impressive with bending for dem IMF loans kek. Very impressive with unemployment in double digits even as a big part of your working population are migrating to the western Eurup.
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 No.472904

>>472903
>Omg the phrases you use can be twisted to sound like the phrases other people use
Midwit
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 No.472905

>>472904

That's being extremely generous.
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 No.472906

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>>472872
>muh bad
>nothing can build gommunism
You are wrong to adopt the boogie-man mentality from the media mainstream.
And nobody is claiming that countries like China achieved socialism, they consider them selves in the lower stages of building socialism.

>conspiratard
Conspiracies do happen all the time, how do you think ruling classes gain power and keep it. They conspire to make the institutions of society favor their class interests, push their agendas, spread their ideology and so on.

>Neocons
>it's just capitalists
Sure, they represent imperial capital, but it's still worth having that label, because the neocon flavor of imperialism has it's distinctive particularities that sets it apart from other flavors of imperialism. Compare the Neocons with the Victorians of the British empire for example. The former prefers to use covert military tactics, like arming terrorist groups or reactionary ethno nationalists. They go for indirect attack vectors like messing with economic flows. The latter was very different, the Victorians used very overt military tactics that could be described as bursting through the front door. They didn't bother much with indirect methods when it came to economics, they just installed occupation governments that forcefully changed economics matter by imperial dictates. Ideologically there is a big difference as well, the neocons have a justification-myth about democracy freedom and neoliberal social values. The Victorians pretended to be the """advanced civilizers""" that were uplifting """less evolved species of hominids""". Maybe that inspired the Prime Directive in Star Trek

>Ramblings about China
You seem to make 3 points.
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 No.472475[Reply]

West Papua is the western half of New Guinea, the world’s second-largest island. It lies 250 kilometres north of Australia and is one the thousands of South Pacific islands collectively known as ‘Melanesia’. West Papua is one of the most remarkable places on Earth. Its rainforest is second in size only to the Amazon, and contains species like the bird of paradise and the tree kangaroo. It is home to sophisticated tribal people whose culture stretches back tens of thousands of years. The West Papuans live in 250 tribes, each with its own language and culture.

West Papua used to be part of the Dutch East Indies. After World War II, the Dutch Empire became the new nation of Indonesia. But the Dutch argued that West Papua had never been part of Indonesia and had an entirely different culture and history. West Papua declared independence on 1st December 1961 - but the Indonesian army invaded three months later. Although the international community intervened, Western governments, led by the USA, chose to appease Indonesia and accept its occupation rather than risk a political crisis that might encourage the spread of communism in South East Asia. In 1969, the UN presided over a referendum on independence that was clearly a sham. The Indonesian occupiers announced that the Papuans were too ‘backward’ to cope with democracy, and 1026 ‘representative’ Papuans were rounded up and forced at gunpoint to vote to join Indonesia. This was called, ironically, the 'Act of Free Choice’.

Since its annexation the people of West Papua have suffered constant misery. Over 500,000 people have died as a direct result of the Indonesian occupation. Much of their land has been taken by the state and given to national and multinational companies for mining, logging or oil extraction. Non-violent dissent has been criminalised: anyone who calls for independence, raises the Papuan flag or publicly questions the legitimacy of Indonesian rule can be imprisoned. Tens of thousands of Indonesian soldiers are stationed in West Papua, and regularly torture, rape and murder Papuan leaders, activists and civilians.

West Papua is a closed society. All foreign journalists are banned. Human rights groups, lawyers, foreign politicians and even tourists are either banned from entering Papua or restricted to small areas where they are closely monitored by the police. As a result, the world hears little about the horror that goes on there day after day.

The Papuans hPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
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 No.472481

papua my balls
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 No.472492

>>472475
>The Papuans have been denied one of the fundamental rights in the UN International Charter of Human Rights - ‘self-determination’, the right to choose their own government and national status.
>Every representative Papuan organisation is now calling for a genuine referendum on independence, in which all Papuans get the chance to vote.
I think it would be more effective if they would be enforcing it at gun-point. Firepower tends to yield more independence than anything else.
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 No.472499

islanduyghurs
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 No.472500

>>472499
it's actually a peninsular
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 No.472876

File: 1693282139710.jpg ( 110.12 KB , 1280x1024 , flag-indonesia-static.jpg )

fug of angloterd. papua in indonesia because indonesia border is based on shared strugle of being dutch rulled. the reason why temor leste was not part of indonesia to begin with was because they are not dutch ruled. indonesian nationalism was not based on shared culture or language or value. indonesian nationalism was based on shared strugle and history of strugle and being ruled by the dutch. indonesia was not a "nation based on drawn border by white people", that is cartoon logic and oversimplification and misleading. fug you all. if the entire asia is dutch ruled then they gain independence then they SHOULD become the one nation that is indonesia. INDONESIA!!!!!!!

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 No.472522[Reply]

More than 20 detained by Sudanese Military Intelligence in communist party raid
The military intelligence force executed a raid on the office of the Communist Party of Sudan (CPoS) in the capital of the Blue Nile region*, apprehending attendees of a cultural and political gathering before the start of the event. More than 20 attendees were subsequently transferred to a police station before eventually being released on bail. In a statement published yesterday, the Democratic Lawyers Front denounced the force’s actions, asserting that they “interfered with the cultural and political event and detained party members without any legitimate or legal justification”.
https://www.dabangasudan.org/en/all-news/article/more-than-20-detained-by-sudanese-military-intelligence-in-communist-party-raid

COPE calls on SAHRC and PP to intervene in Tshwane strike
The Congress of the People (COPE) has called on the South African Human Rights Commission (SAHRC) and the Office of the Public Protector to intervene in the tension between the City of Tshwane and striking municipal workers. Services have been suspended after municipal workers affiliated to the South African Municipal Workers Union (SAMWU) embarked on an unprotected wage strike three weeks ago. COPE spokesperson Dennis Bloem says the situation has put the health of residents at risk.
https://www.sabcnews.com/sabcnews/cope-calls-on-sahrc-and-pp-to-intervene-in-tshwane-strike/

BRICS expansion hopefuls seek to rebalance world order
Amid widespread dissatisfaction with the prevailing world order, the pledge of BRICS nations - currently Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa - to make the grouping a leading champion of the "Global South" has, despite a dearth of concrete results, found resonance. Over 40 countries have expressed interest in joining BRICS, say officials from South Africa, which is hosting the Aug. 22-24 summit. Of them, nearly two dozen have formally asked to be admitted.
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 No.472571

>>472565
Most of the land ownership is now financialized via hedgefunds, and there's no real difference between land speculation and any other kind of speculation. I'm not really sure about theory in this case , as far as i understand it speculators are only supposed to cause specific price inflation for what ever commodity they speculated with. You're the first person to assert that speculation can cause general inflation. I think we'd have too look at the numbers to find out, i don't know of any econ-data source that publishes data about financial speculation tho. But this is definitely something worth considering.

However you are likely wrong about the role of money printing. The gazillions they printed to keep wall-street afloat in the last decade and a half. Well a bunch of that probably went into land speculation as well. Billionaires and big corporations have been busy buying up a lot of land recently not just for real-estate but also agricultural land.

The inflation in the US is among various reasons also caused by ballooning defense offense budgets. Basically the imperial business-model, of investing into means of war to extract loot as return on investment has probably turned a loss. The neocon's imperial project in Ukraine that's certainly a "failed investment".

But in general inflationary pressures are caused because capital invests into non productive stuff. Investments that reduce inflation are building newer factories with better machines that increase productivity, building new transportation infrastructure that's faster and more efficient and better social services that preserve the well being of the population.

At least in principle capitalism should have immunity against leverage from a landed aristocracy. Capitalists don't have to use land, they could build industrial parks in deserts or on massive ocean-rigs. Like-wise cities could be expanded into the ocean or downwards via "earth-scrapers"
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 No.472588

>>472567
>99% of people do not own land. Land is owned mostly by large corporations and petty bourgeoisie fag.

Why do you think that is, moron?
They buy it up, it's profitable. They use it to extract rents. A few people own disproportionate amounts of land because everyone needs land and controlling the supply is profitable.

>It has nothing to do with the general economy and has nothing to do with inflation. It will cause the housing market specifically to inflate in value which we are seeing now.

Oh, yeah, because the cost of rent and housing has no impact on the rest of the economy… right… think about this a little bit. Who are these people who don't need housing? Where are these businesses which do not rely on land and natural resources?

Rents are a bigger expense for most storefronts in major cities than wages are, and even if they weren't, they would still represent a massive unnecessary expense paid just to banks and commercial landlords. How is this separate from the rest of the economy? It isn't. Almost all workers and even most capitalists pay an arm-and-a-leg to landlords, and the only reason that capitalists are mostly ok with it is because smart capitalists will also become landlords and exploit this so they can secure longterm wealth with even less risk.

>>472571
>Most of the land ownership is now financialized via hedgefunds, and there's no real difference between land speculation and any other kind of speculation.

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 No.472589

>>472588
>We differ on the definitions here - I'm using 'land' in the classical sense to refer both to geographical land and to natural resources which have fixed supplies and haven't been created through labor. Everybody uses it, and creating large, fully-staffed industrial operations in the middle of the sea or on artificial landmasses is probably more difficult than just paying rents… and the capitalists who could conceivably have enough capital to do those kinds of massive projects are typically already in the land speculation game as well.
Sorry for repeating myself in this last paragraph, anon #2. I should really go over these for redundancies before I write a big piece-by-piece reply like this.
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 No.472832

You all are retards. We have inflation because the growing capital stock requires more labor to maintain, and every person busy with maintaining and repairing existing capital stock still gets paid a wage that they can buy end commodities with.

So inflation is due to the growing ratio of population employed in maintaining existing capital stock to population employed in expanding capital stock.
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 No.472834

>>472832
>We have inflation because the growing capital stock requires more labor to maintain
If you increase the capital stock relative to population, that decreases profits. But for inflation it probably does nothing. I guess that increasing machine capital stock might mean higher productivity, and that could increase the supply of goods and drive down prices, which would decrease inflationary pressures.

A worker puts more into the economy than they can get out via their wages. So from the point of view of inflation, employing more workers lowers inflation while laying workers off increases inflation. The reason for that is fairly obvious. Workers produce more than they consume and that means increasing the number of people employed in the economy has the effect of creating a net increase of available commodities, raising supply relative to demand and hence lowering market exchange-prices.

If you want to twiddle on the employment knob, then full employment will give you the lowest inflation.

Even if wages of workers rise they can never be the cause of inflation because under capitalism workers never get payed enough wages to buy everything they produce, the workers can never generate enough demand to buy up all the supply, let alone generate more demand than supply. Only capitalists can have enough money to do that.

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 No.472744[Reply]

How would the world be different today if the USSR had been successful at creating a laboring race of chimp-human hybrids?
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 No.472745

Planet of the Apes but communist
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 No.472796

>>472744
My default assumption is that all the strange stories about the Soviet Union are propaganda bullshit unless proven otherwise. So why again do you think this happened ?

Monkeys and humans don't have matching chromosomes, that means you can't fertilize the egg, in either direction. Maybe it would be possible to get around this with genetic splicing or whatever, but last century that tech wasn't available. That said there still are scientists trying to create hybrids, tho they want em for organ farming. They're injecting human stem cells into monkey babies, in order to grow human organs in a monkey body, they're also trying to do this with pigs, sheep and mice. It could be that lab-grown organs will eclipse this because synthetic biology has less contamination risks and ethical concerns.

>laboring race of chimp-human hybrids
Monkeys are 1.5x stronger than humans, but they have worse endurance, so i don't really see the point. A hydraulic piston has 100.000 times the strength of a human and never gets tired.
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 No.472797

>>472744
Wtf why does he look like a human??
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 No.472798

>>472797
>why does he look like a human
he doesn't, you're getting tricked by the pants and the upright posture
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 No.472824

File: 1693162667483.mp4 ( 4.69 MB , 720x540 , aJHqZPSrdchOcA8R.mp4 )


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 No.472705[Reply]

<2 points of attention:

1st: for the record, the blacks love trump, and trump loves the blacks.

2nd: it appears that the DNCecurity state is ramping up their faggy psyop on chans, including this one.
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 No.472765

Black people know this is all bullshit and gave up. Very often they're disqualified from voting or chased away, and that was made very obvious in the past 20 years.

Whatever happens next year will be such a joke that no one in America will be convinced elections are relevant. 2020 already made it clear that shit is done. The rulers threw it in your face that none of that was real, and brag that they're killing us off. You're all idiots for even acknowledging these narratives.

Trump country is desperate to keep the center of attention on Retard-Man.
You are already seeing that so many people have died. Americans are going to look around during the primaries and see that there just aren't any more people. How the hell can the results of an election be legitimate after that? Even acknowledging the reality would make clear that many millions in the country are dead or left. They're going to have to get the graveyards voting in force to elect the "winner". It's preposterous, and they laugh about doing this to you.
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 No.472775

File: 1693053426041.mp4 ( 3.31 MB , 1280x720 , 5tUGIn10wl55r1Uh.mp4 )

Leftychan is magacommunism insurrection gang
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 No.472776

File: 1693053494878.mp4 ( 9.95 MB , 1280x720 , eME-5rHHJTzvkVIu.mp4 )

Supermaga
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 No.472821

File: 1693158891395.mp4 ( 2.56 MB , 674x698 , 41syQjPx59jr_Rxh.mp4 )

>timeline shifting
>race war imminent
>black proletarians rise up
>slaughter millions of white know-it-all moralizing millennials for being social conspirators of porky
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 No.472822

>>472821
This man seems smart, I will critically support him (with prayer hands)

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 No.472723[Reply]

>ukraine conflict happend
>other armed conflict happend right before the ukraine conflict.
>other armed conflict happend during the ukraine conlfict.
>english speaker made it special
>"muh ppl n civilian die putn is literally hitlter!!!"
>as a consequence it has become the current """happening""".

why ?. it did not make any sense to me
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 No.472725

>>472723
Every Mainstream media boogie-man gets likened to literal Hitler. Although this time they also compared the Russian president to Stalin, which caused me momentary confusions about why they were all of a sudden praising the boogieman.

There are rumors that soon-ish Russia will end the static line grind-warfare and go for an advance. With NATO weapons piles drained and the Ukrainian military depleted, the Ukrainians would likely loose lots of territory again , and then the news will likely change the topic.

But to answer your question about why the Ukraine-war was so heavily propagandized in the news. Maybe it's several factors. The imperial bourgeoisie cared about this alot because this was their attempt at knocking down a rival power. It's also an incredibly unpopular war because most people think it's just a money pit, and they turned up the propaganda-dial to 11, to manufacture consent. It's also an external conflict and those always serve as distraction from internal problems.
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 No.472737

>>472723

It's war in Europe, and hundreds of thousands of people have died. It's the biggest military conflict in Europe in decades, casualties are around 1000x those of the 2008 Russo-Georgian war. The end goal of this for Russia is the annexation of Ukraine, a country which has not been part of Russia for over 30 years. It's significant.

Also, the annexation of Crimea was a big deal back in the day, and that was much, much smaller than this, but you probably were like 2 so I don't blame you for not remembering. Not all armed conflicts last equally long, are of equal size, or occur in Europe. If this happened in France or Germany, it would get way more coverage - ftr, there have been plenty of weeks where the only place I hear about Ukraine is some anon whining on here about how the media talks too much about the massive European war. The news talks about it less often compared to other topics than you guys do.

>>472725
The news hasn't been talking about this as frequently for like a year - which, by the way, everybody thought Russia would win in like a month a year ago. Went great! They'll probably still win, who knows?

>The imperial bourgeoisie cared about this alot because this was their attempt at knocking down a rival power

Oh, yeah, they baited Russia into starting a ground war based around Lebensraum by, uh, not letting Ukraine into NATO.
Russia didn't have to invade. They didn't have to annex Crimea in 2014, and they didn't have to try to annex the rest of Ukraine in 2022. It was an incredibly stupid move. What do you think would happen if South Korea tried to annex North Korea? Do you think NK would just give in if China didn't send them bombs? Probably not!
Invade a sovereign country with a huge military and a sense of national identity, and what do you think will happen? A birthday party? The US should back out, but that alone isn't going to end the war.
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 No.472783

>>472737
>which, by the way, everybody thought Russia would win in like a month a year ago.
We have to put this into context.

At first people thought that this war would last no longer than a few weeks, because the assumption was that the Zelensky government was autonomous enough to broker a peace deal with the Russians. Can you really blame people for assuming that Ukraine wouldn't just let it self be sacrificed by the US ?

Also the Russian military did cripple most of Ukraine's original military in a few months, without NATO continuously rebuilding Ukraine's army this would have been a very short war indeed. Emptying out NATO weapons stocks to prolong an inevitable Ukrainian defeat that's not rational behavior either and wasn't predictable. It seemed so unthinkable that so many western governments would do military collaborationism with hardcore Nazis in Ukraine. Perhaps that was a bit naive.

>they baited Russia into
The Ukrainian fascists were gearing up to do ethnic displacement in east Ukraine. That was more than just bait. Given how many familial and other ties exist between Russia and East Ukraine, that kind of political pressure on it's own was probably enough to cause a war. The fact that Ukraine wouldn't rule out NATO integration that made war a certainty. The Russians think NATO=US-hard-power-projection.

>Crimea
The Crimean's do have a right to self determination, they held a legitimate referendum that upheld democratic norms. They became their own country and then they immediately joined the Russian federation. I would have preferred that Crimea and the other countries like the Luhansk and Donetsk people's republics had become fully independent countries. That might have been possible if western governments had offered them international recognition and done stuff like opening embassy's in their territories. By rejecting their requests for international recognition they basically pushed these fledgling nations into the embrace of the Russian federation. One of the many strategic and diplomatic failures.

>Invade a sovereign country
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 No.472799

>>472783
>The fact that Ukraine wouldn't rule out NATO integration that made war a certainty.
Also worth mentioning that Zelensky made allusions to Ukraine pursuing nuclear weapons at the Munich security conference just before the invasion. A nuclear armed NATO collaborator right next door with a large border near important Russian cities? That shit was never gonna fly.
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 No.472800

>>472737
Go back to Reddit you gay faggot

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