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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1631562689039.png (151.85 KB, 1200x1445, KPRF_Logo.svg.png)

 No.451440[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Here is the party programme of the KPRF

>Stop the extinction of the country, restore benefits for large families, reconstruct the network of public kindergartens and provide housing for young families.

>Ban on abortion and contraception for ethnic Russians.
>Recognise ethnic Russians as founders of the state
>Nationalise natural resources in Russia and the strategic sectors of the economy; revenues in these industries are to be used in the interests of all citizens.
>Return to Russia from foreign banks the state financial reserves and use them for economic and social development.
>Break the system of total fraud in the elections.
>Create a truly independent judiciary.
>Carry out an immediate package of measures to combat poverty and introduce price controls on essential goods.
>Not raise the retirement age.
>Restore government responsibility for housing and utilities, establish fees for municipal services in an amount not more than 10% of family income, stop the eviction of people to the streets and expand public housing.
>Increase funding for science and scientists to provide decent wages and all the necessary research.
>Restore the highest standards of universal and free secondary and higher education that existed during the Soviet era.
>Ensure the availability and quality of health care.
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 No.458159

File: 1664286702291.jpg (31.62 KB, 480x270, MJ-popcorn.jpg)

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 No.458209

>>458137
>This is why people fucking despise you by the way, and why you deserve it. Because despite all your bullshit pretensions, faux morality, and rehearsed “love” for the working class; at the end of the day you view workers as pawns, see yourselves as the one truly worthy of controlling “leading” them, and are perfectly willing to throw away their lives as if they are worth nothing.
Are there any tankies online who are not like this? Surely just by the law of averages there must. But I have never met one.
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 No.458210

>>458132
>"ashes" implies that it has no value, that it have burned to the ground
The "ashes" I was referring to were the destroyed relations to the means of production that Soviet citizens no longer had to even a dysfunctional command economy.
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 No.458211

>>458109
>It’s funny how the fault never falls with the alienation of the masses from the state/party machinery but rather just the intellectual rot of cloistered intelligentsia who were the ones entrusted with and empowered over the fates of millions
Like holy shit how can you still not see the problem?
This should be tattooed onto the forehead of every tankei.
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 No.458221

>>458209
>Are there any tankies that are not like this

No. Also, fix'd


File: 1664203821749.jpg (22.55 KB, 220x299, 220px-Zhouenlai1912.jpg)

 No.458056[Reply]

What do you guys think of elite over production theory?

If you've never heard of it, it goes a bit like this:

Social unrest occurs during a period of economic stagnation following a period of economic growth. In this juncture, a coming-of-age generation achieved an education and expected to join the ranks of the elite or upper middle class. When reality hits them in the face, they encounter economic hardship, and their hopes fail to materialize, they turn to radical left wing politics. But, in effect, they seek to take out the old elite in order to make room for themselves.

A much more detailed summary can be found here:

https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/the-elite-overproduction-hypothesis

To me, it seems plausible. Interestingly, it also comports with the theory of the causal factors of revolution laid out by John Foran in 'Taking Power' (which you should read if you don't want to be a psued all your life).

<Tldr: a bunch of reasonably smart and creative people develop their minds but have no outlet through which to socially/economically succeed with it. As a response, they turn to leftist politics and hope to 'overthrown heaven,' to make use of a Chinese term.


Pic related is Chou En Lai
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File: 1663567172871.jpg (31.8 KB, 512x274, pink-capitalism1.jpg)

 No.457660[Reply]

Saying that capitalism is unstable is a cope. If anything, it's proven itself to be especially adaptive to social pressure, able to coopt and leverage social movements against socialism. It won the cold war and forced AES to concede in one way or another. Part of this, I presume, has to do with the financialize of the economy. Production, in essence, has taken a back seat of circulation. This has put workers on the backfoot when it comes to organizing. A recent article by Compact Magazine does a good job of laying out the case for the stability of capitalism. However, I also have misgivings about this line of thought, which I'll detail later in the comments:

>for the first half century or so after Marx’s death in 1883, the emphasis on instability seemed to be amply borne out. From the 1890s to the 1930s, not only did the system seem to be teetering on collapse, but the very contours of social conflict appeared to amply vindicate Marx’s expectations—it was the emerging industrial proletariat that was at the helm of the revolutionary outbreaks across the capitalist world…


>Classical Marxists and the postwar left were both wrong in their belief that capitalism was stabilized by something outside the class structure. The real source of social order in capitalism—of its stable reproduction over time—isn’t culture or ideology; it is the class structure itself. The structure ensures that individuals within the working class choose individualized forms of resistance over collective ones. They do so not because they fail to recognize their interests, as theories of false consciousness or cultural hegemony would have it. Both of these approaches insisted that workers in some way failed to understand their immediate material interests. Actually, it is because workers accurately perceive the risks and costs associated with collective action. Hence, they typically opt for individualized forms of advancement over collective ones. But to opt for an individualized strategy is nothing other than to accept the dominant position of the employer—and of capitalists as a class. It leaves unchallenged the employer’s structural power over the worker and seeks simply to maximize the worker’s welfare within the latter’s parameters. It is a tacit acceptance of the rules of the game, rather than an effort to transform or even challenge them…


>Institutions enabli
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 No.457691

Op here

The main critique I have of the article is a) it assumes that the only alternative to capitalism is so sort of revolutionary socialism instead of something much worse, and b) assumes we're still living under a predominantly capitalist system rather than something much worse.

I'd argue that were are, in fact, heading toward a sort of techno neo feudalism as a natural outgrowth of fully developed capitalism. The distinguishing feature of neo fuedalism is that economic surplus, rather than reinvested simply into the development of the means of production, is increasingly reinvested into ancillary and circulatory processes and, more importantly, the development of the means of control. Power is always the goal. For a (relatively short) period, ownership of the means of production was the primarily means to acquire and maintain power. Increasingly, I'd argue, the MoP are collectively owned (through financialization schemes, including common stock ownership) yet defacto *controlled* by an administrative elite. This is not only the case in the west, but also in places like China.

Inb4: but market relations still exist.

Ya, so do basic fuedal ones, such as landlord-tenants. That doesn't mean fuedalism is the dominant MoP
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 No.457731

File: 1663651616821.gif (137.76 KB, 270x271, fry chewing.gif)

>AES
… Advanced Encryption Standard?
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 No.457732

>>457691
I think most people with a brain understand we are heading to neo feudalism. Especially with the break down in relations between labor and capital that has occurred with in the last 100 years.
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 No.457735

>>457732
>I think most people with a brain understand we are heading to neo feudalism.

This explains why no one in the idpol or cultural left is talking about it
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 No.457798

>>457671
>It depends on how you mean. If you can't see things from varying frame works you are retarded.
Sure but there is a default framework that is applied if you don't specify it.
And the default framework is that the purpose of the economy is to reproduce society.
Capitalism is not efficient at that.

If you specify that you are talking about profits in particular, maybe capitalism is efficient.
It's still kind of ideologically warped because the workers don't make profits in capitalism, in fact most people never make profits in capitalism, so how efficient could it really be. It's like saying that Feudalism was efficient at building stone castles, until you realize that the peasants never got a castle.


File: 1662273522474.png (1.5 KB, 1920x1280, UPA Flag.png)

 No.456704[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Last Ukraine thread is full. Why don't we have a new one to stay out of other threads?

At the time of posting this, Ukraine's "methodical counteroffensive" in the Kherson Oblast has started. Where do you think this is headed, anon?

Let the debates begin!
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 No.457710

>>457686
Where does it say he doesn't think Ukraine shouldn't be independent?
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 No.457733

>>457710
Htat is the implication to anyone that isn't illiterate. His actions said as such when he tried to invade the whole of Ukraine, and not just put troops in Donbabwe and Luganda.
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 No.457737

>>457733
>Htat is the implication to anyone
ok schizo
>His actions said as such when he tried to invade the whole of Ukraine
if he tried to invade a bit of Ukraine, would that have meant he was committed to the independence of Ukraine?
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 No.457739

>>457372
The Serb Sperg is back!
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 No.457786

>>457739
>it's a Shqiptar doesn't know any other Yugoslavian republic except Serbia episode
I bet you celebrate US bases in Albania and Kosovo, imperialist cuck.


File: 1653426879778.jpg (144.08 KB, 618x597, 1619719105198.jpg)

 No.455325[Reply]

>The "tax" for keeping the Second Amendment just increased by 14 kids and 1 adult.
>But, hey, it wasn't anyone you knew so what difference does it make, amirite?

Are we ready to ban the guns yet? Go ahead… I'm ready for the "thoughts and prayers" guntard playbook.
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 No.456192

File: 1660990066790.png (48.03 KB, 894x773, 5715.png)

>just give resources to plebs, that will liberate them
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 No.457268

>>455562
>>455563

Good to see some sanity.

OP may not be gay, but zir sure is a fag
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 No.457270

>>455325
>Are we ready to ban the guns yet?
Nah, come back when all the kids are dead, then I'll think about it.
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 No.457275

Leftists don't want to ban guns. Bad idea.
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 No.457471

File: 1663363302668.jpg (122.18 KB, 828x662, 1663267858074906.jpg)



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File: 1661033092849-4.mp4 (8.98 MB, 640x352, Ec3eisOyZUhjNnho.mp4)

 No.456195[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

It's now been confirmed that Darya Dugina, daughter of Russian political philosopher Alexander Dugin, has been assassinated in a car bombing in Moscow Oblast. Her father was supposed to be in the car, indicating that he was the target of the attack.

This has literally just happened and I will try to post updated news when I see it.
Link to the RWA twitter thread:
https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1561101559974559744?s=20&t=L6HTiDXFLkuXXzBW7CSM1w
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 No.457351

>>457348
We don't even have to do that, US killed way more. By the way, when are you leaving whatever western democracy you live in now in order to go to your preferred alternative like China, Russia, or yes, even Afghanistan? Clearly, you must be working something out to get the fuck out of whatever American-controlled shithole you live in today.
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 No.457352

>>457351
Only rich people can ever dream of leaving their countries of origin.

Legally anwyays
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 No.457353

>>457352
Nah. I did it, and I had almost nothing. In fact, I'm pretty sure you can get help if you volunteer your time to your new government. Many of these will be happy to pay your ticket to get there and work for them. What's stopping you?
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 No.457355

>>457337
>I'm glad you agree that life would be better under the US-style liberalism than under the Taliban.
You're presenting it disingenuously. The question is: would you rather live under US-style liberalism in the midst of a decades-long war OR under the Taliban in peace time? That is the choice Afghan people were faced, they chose peace. You think they're dumb because you've never been anywhere near a war, for you Americans war is something that happens far away, in third world countries.
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 No.457356

>>457355
>>457355
>You're presenting it disingenuously. The question is: would you rather live under US-style liberalism in the midst of a decades-long war OR under the Taliban in peace time?
Well, the Afghans weren't starving under US occupation, nor is it actually peacetime. Afghanistan just switched to a slow-burn insurgency/civil war. What you think the killing stopped just because the US left? I'm sure a lot of women in Afghanistan wish the US had stayed.
>That is the choice Afghan people were faced, they chose peace.
No. The people didn't get a vote. They had a government they had voted into power, which the Biden administration basically sabotaged (though it was a Trump plan).
>You think they're dumb because you've never been anywhere near a war
I've been in two, one willingly and one unwillingly.
>for you Americans war is something that happens far away, in third world countries.
Well, I wasn't born in America, and my home country is still at war. Now, what idpol are you going to pull out next?


File: 1663027936765.jpg (52.81 KB, 1320x885, Russia Ukraine flag side b….jpg)

 No.457237[Reply]

The Russia and Ukraine war is just the next Israel/Palestine really. What I mean is for the working class especially in foreign countries this conversation on who to support Russia or Ukraine is bullshit. How could the working class decide to support one or the other? Well in truth it is not for the working class to to support or choose nations, fascism, democracy, or any other political form; how could this opposition organize itself? In fact how the hell could the Ukrainian proletariat oppose Russia? Or the proletariat of the West oppose NATO? The working class is in fact not a political body at all, they cannot make final judgement on these issues.
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 No.457266

>>457260
Individual actors can do bad things and it doesn't make it great man theory. If a single US president decided to give a nuclear launch and end humanity as we know it, he would definitely be the one changing history, but it doesn't make it great man history, since the mechanisms for him to do that were already there. Putin himself could end this war, but won't. You don't understand what is said by great man theory of history. You're just a fucking retard.
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 No.457267

>>457260
It was Putin's gamble to invade Ukraine. Putin gambled again just like he gambled with Georgia, Crimea, the separatist republics.
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 No.457269

Good poast.

People in the west who take a side in far off hot conflicts and get emotionally attached to it come across as sports fans.
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 No.457271

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 No.457272

>>457260
There are powerful men that singlehandedly make things happen. The problem was that all of history was explained like this.


File: 1643424343095.jpeg (8.53 KB, 225x225, images.jpeg)

 No.454209[Reply]

I think the conflict between Russia, Ukraine and the United States is going to turn into another Syria-esk conflict that divides the left pretty heavily. I want to be clear, the correct stance to take a stance against Ukraine and it's NATO alliance with the united states.

I don't necessarily care if you support Russia or don't support Russia. Russia is basically a theocratic totalitarian state at this point but when NATO was created in the late 80's an agreement of not moving "one inch to the east" was part of the compromise between the USA and the USSR. Since then how many other eastern bloc countries have joined NATO? It's plain and simple Ukraine joining NATO is an obvious act of aggression by the United States. Further more the Ukrainian military are basically ethno nationalists at this point. The military is infected with em.

Hands off Ukraine!
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 No.457257

>>457256
Ok what am just I missing? Do you think official state in goings are so relaxed they don't need documentation?
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 No.457258

>>457257
You're missing obvious sarcasm. Are you a non-native English speaker by any chance? The joke is that the other anon responded to a comment that binding agreements need to be put on paper by claiming that two world leaders verbally agreeing to something is binding, and not simply a drug deal. The clown poster then proceeded to make the joke, that the other anon had implied that only drug dealers would need paperwork, unlike world leaders, who are known to not stoop to such depths for binding agreements. That's the joke. Congratulations, you have sucked the humor out of a pretty good dig at someone.
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 No.457259

>>457258
Well uyghurs
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 No.457261

>>457140
>My grandfather is Albanian
You're an American, defending the actions of the United States. At least be honest with yourself. At least you didn't call yourself a socilaist, communist or anarchist, so you have that going for you, lib.
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 No.457264

>>457261
Don't care. Didn't ask, plus, you['re a Serb. Me Albanian boy, fuck your whole family complete.


File: 1662831650399.png (1.11 MB, 877x600, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.456966[Reply]

After the meal, what is to be done to prevent new Rich from growing in their place right away?

Is there a strategy that involves eating the systems of the Rich, so as to prevent the cyclical occurrence of eating every few years?
https://anotherimg-dazedgroup.netdna-ssl.com/877/azure/another-prod/270/1/271999.jpg
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 No.457045

>>457044
No one said they weren't real socialism. China is actually doing extremely well for itself and the others all have unique histories that explain why and how they developed into the state they did today. Socialism in the United States would be fundementally different and no one who doesn't live in 1927 wants or thinks of socialism as it was then par some retarded and religious tankies so let's talk about that

Also Venezuela really isn't socialist at all.
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 No.457046

>>457045

I think part of the problem is that socialism was originally ideologically constructed as 'workers power' This was at a time when most workers were exiting agricultural fields and entering industrial ones.

Today, so much of the economy is tertiary. It wouldn't really makes sense to take something like the insurance industry and democratize/socialize it. Rather, a revolutionary socialism of the 21st century would simply abolish the insurance industry.
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 No.457077

>>456966
>what is to be done to prevent new Rich from growing in their place right away?

You can use socialist cybernetic planning.
That means instead of using money, you use labor-tokens that represent units of labor-time.
Basically if you worked for 1 hour, you get 1 labor-hour-token or 60 labor-minute tokens.
That way if somebody tried to exploit the workers to become a billionaire they would have to explain when they worked a billion hours. (Average human life is 672'000 hours)

>>457042
>Except it's nearly impossible for a large group of people to equally 'run an economic system.'
Of course it's possible for the masses to coordinate the economy. You just need to have a polling system that polls the masses for their priorities about how society should spend its economic surplus.
It's in fact trivially easy to do this, it's even a natural human tendency to organize into societies. The non-trivial part is to harden the system against people who try to disrupt society from organizing it self.

>At best, they appoint people who control aspects of an economic system. Once in a position of authority, it's very easy for those people to monopolize knowledge and technical know-how,

That is a valid concern.
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 No.457241

>>456966
As long as we're going to have rich billionaires, we should have a lottery. Every five years a billionaire family is randomly selected and butchered for the consumption of the nation. Their records are then destroyed and hence they are essentially turned into literal shit and vague memories of a good meal.
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 No.457263

>>457077
>You can use socialist cybernetic planning.

I'm not too familiar with the theory, but I'd assume that just means using AI to plan production and consumption of the entire economy.

It's kinda premises on the notion that human planning on that scale doesn't work (it doesn't).

But I'd simply ask if there is a sort of 'minimal viable product' for such an endeavor. For example, are their any firms which rely on AI for their business planning. As far as I know, there isn't.

>Basically if you worked for 1 hour, you get 1 labor-hour-token or 60 labor-minute tokens.


If you did that (giving people a token for 1 hour's work of goods in exchange of 1 hour of work), there would be no surplus to invest into replenishing capital nor developing the means of production.

It also doesn't take into account that and hours worth of labor isn't standardized in the amount of work performed. Using manual labor as an example, some people can simply do more work in a shorter period of time. This becomes more complicated when you consider the education which goes into some people's labor. The labor time of a doctor, for example, doesnt just include the amount of time they spend working, but as the amount of time they spend studying.

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File: 1661893001766.jpeg (4.65 KB, 198x254, download (8).jpeg)

 No.456606[Reply]

Gorbachev dead at 91.
The former Soviet leader has died.
RIP BOZO

>Pizza hut leaves Russian Federation

>Gorbachev does

Coincidence?

https://www.reuters.com/world/mikhail-gorbachev-who-ended-cold-war-dies-aged-92-agencies-2022-08-30/
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 No.456958

>>456613
The Cold War didn’t end mate, it continued on in a new form, if the “end” of the Cold War required Russia and China to remain permanently subdued to the US and EU then obviously the “End of History” would not and could not last forever, if that is the case then the period from 1991 to 2012 can be thought of the same way we think of the 20 years of “peace” between WWI and the accepted official start of II that was filled with many horrible interstate and civil wars that just didn’t reach the level of a global conflict; just like you can think of that whole period as a Second 30 Years’ War in Europe, you can think of this as almost like just a singular long global conflict
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 No.456959

>>456622
It was neither to get rid of communism nor for war profiteering, it was to establish US global hegemony on the Earth over all countries, regardless of their political system
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 No.456960

>>456663
I would say you’re right that the revolutions of this century, working class and progressive though they may be, will not be the Soviet LARP tankies hope for, but you are wrong to believe it’s a huge ways off
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 No.457037

What Gorby merely a total moron or was he in fact corrupt? I've never had a clear answer on this.
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 No.457038

>>457037
he was just not very smart IMO


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