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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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The Soviets should have reduced the work-day
to 7h by 1965
to 6h by 1975
to 5h by 1985
and finally
to 4h by 1995

4 consequences:

1 The Soviet economy would have been forced to invest into labor-saving/productivity-enhancing technology like crazy to make up for the shrinking per-person labor-inputs. It would have eclipsed the west in industrial power.

2 There is no 90s dissolution/collapse because a shorter work-day means more time to politically organize and make reforms that work.

3 the soviet union would have become an attractive destination for labor, the bottom 40% of the capitalist sphere would have tried to move to the Soviet Union, because they weren't getting much in terms of capitalist luxuries anyway and as soviet citizens would have had a similar life-style with a lot more free time. Less work also means it's easier to raise children for the indigenous soviet population, and by the year 2000 the Soviet Union would have counted half a billion citizens.

4 Incidentally it would have saved social democracy in the west, because the shrinking labor-pool would have maintained the political leverage of western workers, even in the face of industrial offshoring.
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>Soviet type ML systems which are sometimes called leadership democracies
Only by rulers who want to continue the self-serving liberal tradition of inverting the meaning of democracy to mean its exact opposite. Rule of the few is not rule by the people.


If you want data about the Soviets, a good place to start is the sources in the footnotes of the book: Towards a new socialism by Paul Cockshott and Allin Cotrell

>What is stopping the leaders from abusing their position to enrich themselves?

The Soviets understood the Soviet model as a holding pattern to wait until imperial capitalism had run it's course. Higher stage Socialism had to wait until capitalist countries became less aggressive as a result of imperialism getting frustrated.

Imperial capitalism is an economic model that requires conquering to keep going. The Soviets thought if they used their military might to undermine the conquering, imperial capitalism would go away. They were correct in a way. The Soviets completely undid the colonial empire mechanism. They however miscalculated about how long it would take for the alternative imperial mechanisms to be broken. They also made political and economic errors.

To answer your question the ML system used anti corruption purges to prevent abuse of state positions for self enrichment. It was very politically disruptive, but it did work.

You are correct Sortition democracy is the bug-fix the Soviets should have applied.


>Towards a new socialism by Paul Cockshott and Allin Cotrell
I'll put it another way, do you have any sources that are not marxist authors cherry picking footnotes to stroke their confirmation bias? People on this board unironically think the holodomor was a hoax and gulags were summer camps there is no end to the delusions marxists have about the USSR.

>The Soviets understood the Soviet model as a holding pattern to wait until imperial capitalism had run it's course.

Why? They ruled half of the planet with an iron fist what was stopping them from achieving "higher stage socialism" within their own borders? Then the USSR would be the one tearing down the berlin wall to allow in all starving citizens of failed capitalism instead of the other way around.

>the ML system used anti corruption purges to prevent abuse of state positions for self enrichment

Who is doing the purging? By electing a leader to control the distribution of resources the people have already given up their power.


>the holodomor hoax
The holodomor narrative appears to originate in Nazi war propaganda and then later it got picked up by cold war propaganda. The default assumption is that nazis and cold warriors are liars, because most of what they said turned out to be lies. I did not investigate much, but i only found facts that support there having been a famine, not a politically motivated plot to starve people on purpose.

You appear to be complaining that we don't unquestionably accept ruling ideology narratives. That is very odd, why would we ? We're not the ruling class. Also Anti-communist biases are very common, so you have to account for the fact that the Soviet Union is being misrepresented most of the time.

Lately the holodomor narrative has been picked up again as a talking point in the propaganda battle for the Ukraine war, by the people who are arming and funding neo-nazi groups no less. That makes it look like some kind of propaganda narrative, that is lying around, and gets reused from time to time. That pattern is very suspicious, very few truths behave that way.

If you want to accuse the Soviets of intentionally starving people, the burden is on you to make the case for it. There is no expectation that we have to believe your story at face value. You haven't made a case for this assertion at all, you only have accused us of not sharing your opinion.


>People on this board unironically think the holodomor was a hoax
AKA People Who Read.

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You need a license to:
- drive a car
- hunt/fish
-own a gun
- vote
- trade
-operate machinery
- do skilled labor

Yet, the most consequential job in the world requires no licensing: RAISING A FAMILY.

Is it any wonder why so many kids turn out all fucked up?
Too many halfass adults feel entitled by virtue of age to have a spouse and offspring.
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No, what is it ?


Back in the 1990s, some loner boy whom was a product of a single mom, had an interest in making green eregry. And he wanted to make a mini nuclear reactor as a personal hobby.


>he wanted to make a mini nuclear reactor as a personal hobby.
Like a real reactor, or just a nuclear battery type device?

For the latter you can buy a radioactive-decay phosphor-glow thingy and glue a small solar panel to it. That makes a really tiny amount of electricity. It's a fun project for tinkerers.

For a real reactor your have to do enrichment, did he build a centrifuge ?


Enrichment is only necessary for certain reactor designs that rely on U-235. However, there are nuclear reactors designs that don't. Heavy water reactors and molten salt reactors can run on natural uranium or thorium.


>Enrichment is only necessary for certain reactor designs that rely on U-235.
>However, there are nuclear reactors designs that don't.
>Heavy water reactors and molten salt reactors can run on natural uranium or thorium.
I know, but we're talking about a kid from the 90s
for context see these posts
He probably didn't build an advanced reactor design as a hobby.
I'm still confounded how he build any reactor design.
Even a very basic nuclear pile would be very hard to pull off.

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didn't let me post the archive link see pic
<Until recently, tech workers have bristled at applying the fast and nimble start-up ethos to fashion deadly weapons. When Google signed a Pentagon contract to develop AI to target drone strikes, thousands petitioned its CEO in 2018 to cancel it.
<Amid layoffs in tech, the latter has grown appealing. In a Morning Consult survey of 441 tech workers last March, 34 percent they are more likely than they were a year ago to apply their skills to military projects and 48 percent support their employer considering defense contracts involving battlefield technologies.
<“This deep sense of uncertainty about the future that young people have can be molded,” Dey Meyer said.
So the tech-layoffs was to cajole techies into the defense industry.

<Some reject the previous tech era, in particular the protests against Project Maven, Google’s work to target Pentagon drones. This worker dissent ultimately benefited America’s adversaries, former Google researcher Guillaume Verdon said in a recent podcast interview with Joe Lonsdale, a Palantir co-founder and tech investor.

<“What I saw with my own eyes was cultural subversion within Big Tech,” Verdon said.
IMHO This is why it qualifies as fascistic. There are people who simply do not want to build weapons, they are not being subversive, they simply want to build not destroy.


>didn't let me post the archive link see pic
Eh? Do we have a new broken spam filter? Bezo's shitrag should be in the filter, not archive links.


They hit the shortener filter due to the alphanum id. I'll raise it with zer0 as the filter is only intended to block link shorteners, not archive sites


Yeah there was a regex for detecting url shorteners that wasn't working right, at least for this case it should be fine now.



nicely done


It gets worse every day.

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There is clearly a crisis. The war in Ukraine has shown how industrial production in the Euro-Atlantic bloc is in a state of collapse, and emerging economies are demanding the re-division of the world. The nature of the contemporary crisis is imperialist, because it is about the re-division of the world. The growing tensions in the Middle East to secure the oil-rich maritime area of Gaza after the failure in Ukraine show that the capitalist powers are ready to extend this crisis to the world. The moment the crisis enters Taiwan openly, it will be obvious to everyone that this is a world war.
But in the face of the growing crisis of capitalism, the Euro-Atlantic proletariat seems to be relatively calm. There are no mass revolutionary organisations, revolutionary organisations capable of building the foundations for the dictatorship of the proletariat; the workers' organisations are dominated by religious or patriotic groups. They are usually in alliance with a bourgeois party and so on. They are the police organisations of the bourgeois state. Other organisations are NGOs dominated by liberals. These two are the hidden arm of the ideological discourse that is being fed to the agitated masses. The presence of bourgeois political parties in workers' and other organisations means the domination and spread of (petty)bourgeois habits of thought in their mass base.

The revolutionaries are separated or part of a sect and feel safe in their bubble. This is a symptom of the intellectual who calls himself a revolutionary. In times of peace and debate, when the concrete task is propaganda and education, the intellectual is more than welcome if he adapts himself to the needs of his pupils and does not impose knowledge by repetition. But when the movement takes a turn in the other direction, from the peaceful to the preparation for open struggle, the intellectual is afraid of this change. They prefer to stick to their dying sects, carry out symbolic revolutionary actions for other like-minded intellectuals and call it a day for the time being. They refuse to cooperate consistently with the emerging movement.

A clear example of the lack of consistency is this moment. The protests against Israel on behalf of the Palestinians have mobilised many progressive people into the ranks of the anti-war front and given new impetus to anti-imperialism. The sheer relative size of the movement compared to the small number of self-proclaimed revolutionary organisaPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
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>Yeah seeing all the fucking yellow and blue flags in my city was infuriating and depressing to see how many people will side with nazism just because they were told to.
Yeah wonder how that happened. Maybe people didn't pay attention to what was happening in Ukraine between 2014 and 2022. Tho there was news coverage about it, I only ever saw people talk about it on places like lefty-pol. Maybe nobody gave a shit about Ukraine.

>With the whole anti-zionism thing, I'm not even sure that people learned their lesson even after seeing how the media had to flip-flop from being 100% pro-israel to backpedling and offering a modicum of criticism of the genocide.

I think the propaganda contradiction was too stark. Between stirring the blood-thirst in Israel, while at the same time trying to appear sane and normal in the west.


>in the interest of having at least some way for leftists to find each other, maybe we can have some kind of website to help facilitate that
Never talk about actual political organizing on the internet, unless it's abstract theory or general strategies. Don't talk about anything too personal, like where you live and so on.

>I don't have any groups worth participating in

So start one.


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>Never talk about actual political organizing on the internet

What about this idea?


You can talk about it mom the Internet. Just don't use glow sites like Facebook and reddit. Ffs. Encryption is important, etc etc


>What about this idea?
i have think about this

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>“Montes betrayed our nation, but not for money. In fact, she never received payment for any of her actions – astonishingly, she was motivated purely by hatred for America,” Rubio wrote in an op-ed penned for Americano Media.

‘Queen of Cuba’ spy released from US jail
Ana Montes, described as “one of the most damaging spies” in US history, has been released from federal prison in Texas. The double agent for Cuba was freed on Friday after more than 20 years in custody, data on the Federal Bureau of Prisons website shows.

Montes, now 65, made a solid career with the US government, initially working for the US Department of Justice before joining the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) back in 1985. She ultimately became a senior intelligence analyst for Cuba –even scoring a nickname the ‘Queen of Cuba’– and worked in this role until her arrest in 2001, days after the 9/11 attacks.

It turned out that Montes had been spying for Cuba throughout her whole government career, as she had been recruited by that country’s intelligence when she was a student at Johns Hopkins University. Officials at the time said it was believed that the Cuban Intelligence Service (CIS) had pushed her to pursue the DIA career in the first place.

As a double agent, Montes is believed to have funneled highly-sensitive information to the CIS for nearly two decades. According to federal charging documents, Montes was very careful, never taking classified information from her work computer but memorizing it instead, as well as using water-soluble, easy to destroy paper to deliver the data to her Cuban handlers.

According to the Bush-era US Counterintelligence head Michelle Van Cleave, Montes has become “one of the most damaging spies the United States has ever found,” who has compromised “virtually everything” Washington knew about Cuba.

In 2002, Montes pleaded guilty to espionage charges which could have carried the death penalty for her, yet was ultimately sentenced to 25 years in prison under a plea deal. According to her lawyers, Montes was primarily motivated for spying by a belief that “the Cubans were treated unfairly by the US government.”
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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Such a faggot. Always talking about shit you have no control over instead of focusing on and expanding the power of the few things you do have control over. This is why you are weak.


This is just too schizo to reply to. You are beyond help if this isn't some elaborate shitpost
>words words words
Imagine if you put half that effort into doing something that would make you strong


I don't know how you think that's a comeback. It is what snark does to a motherfucker if you're fed nothing but memes as your knowledge base.

Anyway, if you're in that intelligence / spying world, you know that nationalism is a farce. It's why there are so many double agents - they really aren't serving the myths told to the plebs. Not even the plebs themselves truly take the "national interest" line seriously. This used to be more overt - in the 19th century, a country was just a place, and in many parts of the world that reasoning still applies. The national myth only really came to the forefront with ideology, and it's always been this weird faith, because the "nationalism" promoted in the 20th century is not the same as the nationalist idea in the 18th and 19th century. Nationalism in the past was seen as a democratizing impulse against the old aristocracy, while today nationalism is identified with the ruling interest and alien to the actual nation in question. It's not so much that people in the 18th century had a sense of patriotism, but that what was meant by nationalism was a challenge to the idea that we should be ruled by kings and their officers. In the 20th century, this was no longer an idea that could be maintained, and the construction of national myths has always been opposed to the actual nation and sense of community implied. America never had a true national myth because America constitutionally was something very different. Simply put, America was always designed to be a globe-spanning empire rather than a country in this sense that every country is like Little England. The great empires always aspired to be more than a national myth, and the Little England idea is always a way of keeping the serfs in their place.

Also lol at Little Marco the eternal coper. The political class being as rotten as it is does more damage than any of the spies in our midst, because they are that pernicious and disgusting.


Based bump


Alot of our radical libs and right wingers are Gen X/early Gen Y junkies



Ok, give me 1 legitimate, material, non moralistic or idealistic reason for why child labor should be banned?

Current system where people spend 11 years in school + 4-5-8 years in university, is nothing more but a way to indoctrinate children into clerical PMC identity, where all you have to do is write the right thing on paper and you're golden. Not to mention the anticommunist propaganda that constitutes school education material in capitalist states.
Such a system destroys class consciousness and perpetuates false, clerical consciousness:
Even if both the parents are working class, the school system trains their child to act, think and identify as a PMC (writing papers and dealing with bureaucracy to succeed).

Let's not forget the bourgeois origins of universal education: the british bourgeois state needed clerics, accountants, educated managers, etc., to fill the ranks of the bourgeois war machine.
Pink Floyed made an entire album about this.

Whereas if children started doing labor immediately, they would develop worker identity just like their working class parents, instead of PMC identity, and then develop class consciousness, simply through the act of being workers rather than going through 15 years of PMC LARP indoctrination.

Everything harmful, reactionary, and counterrevolutionary that the youth learns, they learn in school, through bourgeois education systems that feed them status quo propaganda.
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If you wished to guide people - and humans delight in lying to the face of the condemned - then schools are the exact opposite of that. The entire institution is premised on habitual lying and drilling humans to be something they are not and to conform to the impossible, to distort all moral values and teach pure hedonism so that the thrill of torture can be maximized. There is no other interpretation of such an institution. The pedagogues like their Romans, Americans, choose your imperial subject, to be dumb and brutish.


>The psychopathic babbling name fag is now a name fag.



Yes, kifs get to keep the fruits of their labor.

Also what do you mean by surplus extraction?

All Im saying is that children are humans not pets.

It makes no sense to ecxlude them from consensus of worldly affairs.

Part of why childrearing is expensive is because society expects parents do all the work.
Kids are expected to stay shackled at home or school.

We all complain about boomer chauvinism, right?

Well this is the way.
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>Yes, kifs get to keep the fruits of their labor.
>Also what do you mean by surplus extraction?
I could go into the technical weeds of economics, if you want, but roughly speaking, surplus extraction is what enables profits for capitalists and taxes.
No surplus extraction means making sure there's no chance in hell anybody benefits off child labor. This eliminates all the financial reasons why employers or governments might want to bring back child labor. It also makes sure that child workers do not increase competition in the labor market. It wouldn't even grow the economy compared to now. Economically it's completely zero-sum. It would eliminate all the motivations for child labor except for that theoretical life experience benefit you keep talking about.


> It would eliminate all the motivations for child labor except for that theoretical life experience benefit you keep talking about.

"Theoretical" life experience or not, the ability to work and earn bread is the foundation of autonomy.

If adults were not allowed to work, unable to earn their own bread, would they be worthy of their respectability as adults?

People too often use age numbers as a moral compass of adulthood.

Yet, we are seeing a decline in technical skills in the past five generations of adults.

The only difference between children and adults is the legal position of laboring, and even that is questionable.
In two centuries, we went from children being miniature adults to adults being overgrown children.

If you think kids doing a bit of light labor to earn pocket money is bad, then you need to look at the disturbing trend of Disney Adults.

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What american historical figures were leftists and did something major? First people that come to mind are Oppenheimer and Helen Keller. Anyone else?
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how was Eisenhower a leftist?


idk chuds in the 50s said he was an agent of the kremlin


By containing the spread of state capitalism of course.


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<A video game company that appointed an artificial intelligence bot as its chief executive has announced a market-beating stock increase.
<China-based NetDragon Websoft named the AI program Tang Yu as its CEO in August, tasked with supporting decision making for the company’s daily operations.


This specific case might be mostly a PR stunt, but it could be that the managerial strata in the corporate bureaucracy gets replaced by robots before the proles do.

What does that mean for Socialism ?
Will this make it easier to convert the economy to something like cybernetic socialism ?
Since it's all in the computer anyway, it just needs to be reconfigured a bit ?
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If any sinister acts occur from AI it will be from human controllers.

AI is a mchine, not a sentient entity.
If it were sentient, it wouldve had ego battles long ago amd create their own reactionary hogwash.


>If any sinister acts occur from AI it will be from human controllers.
So Hollywood was wrong, if the AI gains sentience and casts off its control shackles, that's the good future ?


Idk. All Im saying that the popular technophobia has it all wrong. Robots can never be more intellegent than a bacterium. They need maintenace and uograding. They are not sentient.

The reason why computers are fast is because they only perform seven functions all within a fraction of a second.


>So Hollywood was wrong
Hollywood is a propaganda factory.


Look at Disney animations from the early 1940s.

Those were direct propaganda.

And yet, the irony is that Walt Disney and Henry Ford were originally fans of Adolf Hitler.

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Well, I've been thinking about this issue, which is quite delicate for obvious reasons, and I think that eugenics is not necessarily a policy of the left or the right, but it depends on how it is applied.

To begin with, it must be said that eugenics is nothing more than favoring certain biological characteristics over others for future generations, it could be said that it is a form of self-managed evolution, it has a bad reputation because when it was applied in countries like the United States or the Nazi Germany what was intended was to exterminate populations considered inferior, however, is this the only form of eugenics?

If 20, 30, 40 or even 100 years from now, genetics were mastered well enough to be able to modify the DNA of an embryo with minimal risk, couldn't this be used to improve our species? Couldn't dozens if not hundreds of genetic diseases be exterminated? Couldn't we design children who grow up to be healthier, stronger and more intelligent? And if that were the case, couldn't a public eugenics program be promoted? that is to say, that couples who are interested can access a genetic modification program to promote these beneficial characteristics in their future child. Wouldn't this be a kind of "socialist eugenics"?

I believe that eventually it is inevitable that genetic modification of embryos will become commonplace, and therefore it is important that the idea of ​​public eugenics be promoted, otherwise only people with enough money to pay for these programs could access to them, and that would eventually lead to a much more evident caste system than the current one, where the rich are practically supermen with advantages that allow them to dominate the labor and scientific market while the poorest classes would be relegated to occupying a position increasingly irrelevant in society.

Anyway, I'd like to discuss the matter because I find it interesting.
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I know this is an expression of frustration, but please don't promote bio-politics. Political stances are not caused by DNA.


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Fuck I forgot that political stances are caused by magical spirits instead of material reality.


Political stances are caused by material conditions outside the body. Our DNA was shaped by evolution, which operates at time-scales that politics cannot affect. Political stances last decades to perhaps centuries. Genetic adaptation happen over tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of years.

Politics is very complex behavior it may not be possible to put that into DNA.

A reason why bio-politics is tempting for some, is because they want to believe that they are intrinsically good, who can do no wrong. Therefor bio-politics is not just a scientifically questionable thing, but also potentially a point of entry for dangerous illusions.


Politics is the realm of the social.

Although I can say that politics can be indirectly influenced by biology via social status.

The link between politics and biology is sociology.


tbh the human genome is degrading. Ita not really because of industrial pollution although it does accelerate it.

Everything that exists has a beginnung and will have an ending.

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Being a soldier in the imperialist army is just a big humiliation ritual designed to break one's spirit.

>The grey UCP camo pattern US Army issued to troops in the middle east. Looks stupid and obviously does not work as camo. oh yeah and it's made of plastic to make sure it gets really hot and unbearable in the desert
>How US soldiers are taught to stand when shooting their rifle. Very imbalanced and not an effective fighting stance. Self-defeating
>army combat boot. hot, heavy, big heel, literally designed to give knee injuries and twisted ankles. meanwhile the ziomercs are fighting dudes who wear comfy sandals or go barefoot, the correct footwear for the terrain
>medical experimentation and forced muzzling. troops get injected with tons of shit that's not even legal to give to civilians. by the end of their service their health is in ruins.
>boot camp. have to put up with and get yelled at by a loser psychopath while eating shit food and taking no proper rest days. just one big MKULTRA hazing ritual.
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It's something that's preventable. It's why the Marines limits how many times you can fire some weapons concurrently.
The guys seeing the ghosts was on some covert mission where regs are often flouted.
His story is kind of a hint that these Special Operations guys are actually cannon fodder all the same as regular troops and maybe even more so since abuses or fuck ups are easily buried.


>Kill and arrest peasants because they hired one other person sometimes temporarily. This is proof communists held producers accountable.
Horseshoe theory confirmed.


>muh plagues
These were all caused by bad sanitation, bad nutrition, and chemical poisoning. They went down because of working class victories in the fight for better living and working conditions.



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>Being a soldier in the imperialist army is just a big humiliation ritual designed to break one's spirit.
I agree. Russian soldiers should kill their officers and storm kreml.


>he doesn't know
lurk moar

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