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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1692241396792.jpg ( 62.08 KB , 1140x570 , imrankhan.jpg )

 No.472302[Reply]

Thought this deserved a thread already. The US recently orchestrated a military against the prime minister of Pakistan. Pakistan has basically had de facto military rule for decades. Control of the prime ministership has oscillated back and forth between two major families while the military rules from the shadows. What was perhaps different this time is that the current prime minister was enormously popular and people had the impression that things were moving in a more democratic direction.

However, he didn't do exactly as he was told by the US like a good boy, so he had to go, and now one of the world's major nuclear powers is in a state of instability. What's in the future for Pakistan now? Is there a danger of India stepping in and some idiot provoking a nuclear exchange?
2 posts omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.472306

Also, I would like to hear from someone who lives in that region, and not some multipolar westoid. Thank you.
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 No.472312

>>472306
>I would like to hear from someone who lives in that region
+92
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 No.472390

File: 1692390194514.jpeg ( 95.02 KB , 687x900 , F3xorjIbEAA8LhP.jpeg )

Wtf, is Twitter becoming based?
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 No.472392

>>472390
>Twitter becoming based?
Maybe, but consider that they might be worried about credibility too. Regime-change-Tony self-styling himself as Mr. Orderly-process-Democracy is perhaps too much of a stretch.


File: 1692272703779.jpeg ( 40.22 KB , 696x465 , Luciano-Canfora.jpeg )

 No.472310[Reply]

Opinions on this dude? He seems to be popular in Italian circles. Doesn't seem to be a dogmoid, dunks on retarded leftoids in his democracy book.

Tho his dismissal of Athens on the grounds that it was exclusionary of large parts of the population is unwarranted because it was still inclusionary of the majority of poor urban population that manned the fleets. Which should be far more important for a marxist than inclusion of fucking w*men, no?

But I digress.. Any garlic eaters here that can provide more context?
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 No.472329

File: 1692292639934-0.jpg ( 43.22 KB , 462x224 , split in the upper class 1.jpg )

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On the split in the propertied class.
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 No.472330

>>472328
And? Should we then dismiss the experiment, the concept of democracy, and the observations that led people to overthrow oligarchies and establish it in the first place because it didn't comport with our modern all-liberating, all-inclusive form of government we want to strive towards? By the way, Athens wasn't the only democracy in the Greek world.
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 No.472331

>>472330
>modern all-liberating, all-inclusive form of government we want to strive towards
Or, to be perfectly blunt, what some leftists appear to want to strive towards. Others seem like they would prefer the Orwellian fraud of electoral oligarchy invented in the 18th century, readily dismissing the entire concept of real democracy on the grounds of ancient democracy's imperfections and Aristotle's aristocratic apologia.
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 No.472333

File: 1692294450935-0.jpg ( 34.32 KB , 461x170 , ancient citizenship 1.jpg )

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>>472330
>the observations that led people to overthrow oligarchies
I'm not against direct democratic mechanisms, but you overestimate the differences between ancient "democracy" and "oligarchy".

Geographic determinists win again lol.
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 No.472334

Also, can we please agree how retarded was Pericles with his war plans? Get besieged in an overcrowded city and don't expect a plague? Really?


File: 1692149195985.png ( 3.66 MB , 1920x1080 , lavrentiy berias lavanderi….png )

 No.472254[Reply]

Social Organizations Mobilize in Argentina After Murder of Facundo Morales
Social organizations and political movements in Argentina mobilized this Friday at the Obelisk in Buenos Aires, after the murder on Thursday of Facundo Molares Schoenfeld who died as a result of police violence. … Similarly, the demonstrators held up signs with the phrase: “Not one more dead for fighting,” and questioned the attitude of the head of government, Horacio Rodríguez Larreta, who claimed responsibility for the actions of the police, said that Facundo’s death was due to a heart attack.
https://abolitionmedia.noblogs.org/post/2023/08/12/social-organizations-mobilize-in-argentina-after-murder-of-facundo-morales/

Ecuador arrests 6 Colombians over assassination of presidential candidate
Ecuador’s police arrested six Colombians for their alleged participation in the assassination of presidential candidate Fernando Villavicencio. The six were arrested in Quito shortly after the assassination on Wednesday. Two of the suspects were arrested near the campaign event in the north of the capital where Villavicencio was shot dead.
https://colombiareports.com/ecuador-arrests-6-colombians-over-assassination-of-presidential-candidate/

Millions of Mexicans lifted out of poverty during López Obrador presidency
Coneval issues its poverty measurement report every two years, basing its analyses on a survey of household earnings and expenditures from Mexico’s national statistics institute Inegi. “And surely in the 2024 report will be lower,” he said, pointing to a graph that showed that the poverty rate fell from 43.2% in 2016 to 36.3% in 2022. The graphs he presented did not include the data from the 2018 and 2020 reports, which showed the poverty rate to be 41.9% and 43.9%, respectively.
https://www.courthousenews.com/millions-of-mexicans-lifted-out-of-poverty-during-lopez-obrador-presidency/
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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 No.472287

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 No.472290

>>472256
>Police raid local Kansas newspaper office and homes of reporters
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/12/police-raid-local-kansas-newspaper-office-and-homes-of-reporters

This is a confusing article, they raided a newspaper because a local restaurant proprietor was embarrassed about getting caught for drunk driving ?
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 No.472298

>>472290

Apparently, yeah. That's what it's suggesting.

"According to Meyer, a confidential source leaked evidence that Newell had been convicted of drink-driving and continued using her vehicle without a license. But the paper never published anything related to it as they suspected the source was relaying information from Newell’s husband during their divorce proceedings.

The Kansas Reflector reported: “Police notified Newell, who then complained at a city council meeting that the newspaper had illegally obtained and disseminated sensitive documents, which isn’t true. Her public comments prompted the newspaper to set the record straight in a story published Thursday.”

The paper added that Newell admitted to the drink-driving arrest and driving with a suspended license.

Then came Friday’s raid and seizures, authorized by a search warrant that alleged identity theft and unlawful use of a computer. The seized materials included publishing and reporting materials that the newspaper relied on to publish their next edition, and they were not given a timeframe for when seized computers and phones would be returned."
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 No.472300

>>472298
>Apparently, yeah.
woah that's some fucked up shit.
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 No.472301

>>472258
>Confronting their war plan on China means getting organised
We need to say “No”: Australia can, in fact, have an independent foreign policy based on peace and justice in the world. And it must. We owe it to ourselves, future generations and the rest of the world.

It feels they're underestimating the stakes. If the US neocons manage to start a war with China, Australia would likely be in the sacrificial zone, and get royally aukused in the process.


 No.471965[Reply]

It seems that the US is trying too stir up a which-hunt against peace activists

The NyTimes already attacked a number of lefty peace organizations with this peace
https://web.archive.org/web/20230805212011/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/05/world/europe/neville-roy-singham-china-propaganda.html
It looks like mainstream media switched to China-war-advertisement mode. So one has to assume that their accusations are false, they always lie when they try to sell a war.
3 posts omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.472000

>>471996
You misunderstand. I shit on China for unrelated reasons. IMO in terms of geopolitics they've been one step ahead of the US for a while now. Probably shouldn't have brought that up now that I think about it.
>So how does the western left un-cuck ?
By creating a political movement that is completely independent from all bourgeois parties and gives no fucks about which wing of capital holds the reigns of power.
As of right now the socialist left is packed with defeatists who willingly cuck themselves to left-liberals. They've fully bought into the lesser of two evils propaganda and put themselves in a completely undialectical mental stasis trap where they perceive independence as ultimately leading to le evil fashist rightoids seizing power and establishing the thousand year Reich. Basically, they've traded letting hawks take power + the potential to dismantle the governing international order, for the mere possibility that (what they perceive as) less hawkish hawks could take power instead.
>Should it respond in kind with a which-hunt against war-hawks ? is that what you are implying ?
Absolutely not. If the western left went on an anti-hawk moral crusade it would backfire tremendously, especially considering how the left is already completely absorbed into the oligarchy and has no positive agenda to speak of. It would be a repeat the 2000's all over again, but this time as a farce.
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 No.472002

Fuck, on second thought the word "undialectical" isn't strong enough. The contemporary socialist left is anti-dialectical. They simply cannot accept that sometimes the only winning move is not to play. It's embarrassing and speaks to an unprecedented level of bad theory. They are hopelessly committed to pseudo-activity and constantly hand every opportunity for dissent or popular revolt over to the far-right.
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 No.472058

>>472000
>I shit on China for unrelated reasons.
Considering that they're currently banging the war-drum against China, maybe now is not the best time for that.

>By creating a political movement that is completely independent from all bourgeois parties and gives no fucks about which wing of capital holds the reigns of power. As of right now the socialist left is packed with defeatists who willingly cuck themselves to left-liberals. They've fully bought into the lesser of two evils propaganda

Yeah that's an unfortunate development. Tho how do you craft politics that feed off this phenomenon, so that the more lesser evilism propaganda they make the stronger we get.

>If the western left went on an anti-hawk moral crusade it would backfire tremendously, especially considering how the left is already completely absorbed into the oligarchy and has no positive agenda to speak of. It would be a repeat the 2000's all over again, but this time as a farce.

The 2000s had a lot of war-fatigue and that's why the "anti-hawk moral" resonated, i don't think that anybody on the left really set out to cause anything on purpose. Maybe a which-hunt against war-hawks would be effective, and the actual problem is that our side really doesn't enjoy which-hunting.

Anyway what strategy would you suggest against McCarthyism
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 No.472063

>>472000
Nice digits
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 No.472296

>>472058
Honestly anon, I can't effectively answer your questions. I feel like we're in a situation where it's a lot easier to diagnose the problem than it is to treat it.


File: 1692157484030.jpeg ( 598.15 KB , 1242x2208 , psyop-from-file-27b.JPEG )

 No.472278[Reply]

For anyone who doesn’t know:

>Psychological operations (PSYOP) are operations to convey selected information and indicators to audiences to influence their motives and objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of governments, organizations, groups, and large foreign powers.


What do you guys think about the idea that Marxists should conduct psyops on its enemies?
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 No.472279

>>472278
>black sun
this meant to mean ogre mods got a /pol/ack rat?
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 No.472281

I think it's irrelevant.
I think that it's weird that they'd do this, but also the thread's gone, so who cares? I have no interest in this. It's dumb.
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 No.472282

>>472279
Make of it what you will. I just think it’s funny mods took down that thread and never directly engaged with me.
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 No.472285

>>472282
>>472281
The thread got moved to meta you retards
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 No.472291

>>472281
>>472282
It's here:
>>>meta/11207


File: 1692109731617.jpg ( 1.27 MB , 1050x3964 , cruffatin.jpg )

 No.472129[Reply]

I wrote all three posts in the pic and much more.
I have been online since 1997.
I have been an anon since 2005. Proof is my YTMND account: https://ytmnd.com/users/anono/sites
I am addicted to learning and have spent the past 23 years of my adult life exploring, creating, and discovering to the maximum of my ability.
I became an anticapitalist and socialist because I love my family, country, species and world.
Beginning around 2010 I began to speculate about a "memetic singularity," an explosion of cultural and social change catalyzed by the internet.
I watched my speculation come alive before my eyes, while I continued to build upon it and develop my theories.
8/01/2023 was The Tipping Point.
There is much more information here: https://old.reddit.com/r/NarrativeDynamics/
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 No.472131

You should kill yourself
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 No.472135

File: 1692110819104-0.png ( 171.38 KB , 1783x1157 , ultimate_community.png )

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File: 1692110819104-2.png ( 106.05 KB , 970x1344 , Universal_Creativity.png )

>>472131
Physically impossible as I am learned optimism incarnate.
You should love life. Here is how.
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 No.472154

Didn't you make this post already? Was the first thread not good enough for you?
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 No.472166

File: 1692114031098.jpg ( 243.29 KB , 696x702 , analogical_backtracing.jpg )

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 No.472199

Moved to >>>/posad/491.


File: 1691840179789.jpg ( 323.64 KB , 1034x1058 , Agent_Zero.jpg )

 No.471970[Reply]

Game theory is the science of strategy.
Memetics is the study of cultural change.
Combine the two and you have a perfect recipe for conjuring the apocalypse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzlyUZoVPGU

https://vimeo.com/124736839

https://www.laetusinpraesens.org/docs00s/singmem.php

https://vimeo.com/218908974
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 No.472067

>>471995
Nice narrative based on armchair ideology without any reference to factual reality whatsoever.
"Factual reality is a bourgeois canard!"
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 No.472068

>>472067
>"Factual reality is a bourgeois canard!"
this but unironically
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 No.472076

>>472065
… why'd you post it to Reddit? Can you post it here?
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 No.472081

>>472076
>why'd you post it to Reddit?
Because the format is far superior.
>Can you post it here?
No, if you can't click a link I can't help you.
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 No.472202

>>472081
>Because the format is far superior.

That format is way worse, actually.

>No, I won't explain wtf I'm on about


Cool.


File: 1691910543850.mp4 ( 3.43 MB , 1080x1920 , Snapinsta.app_video_121419….mp4 )

 No.472049[Reply]

This is the 'right wing' 'fascist' Italian PM that the reddit'left' is shreeking about.

At what point did you realize everything is a lie?
2 posts omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.472052

>>472051
That's right comrade. If you don't make vapid moral proclamations while having no skin in the game, you're a fashist
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 No.472053

classic fashoid populism
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 No.472054

>>472052
>If you don't make vapid moral proclamations
that's what she does tho
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 No.472069

>>472049
>what is that populism political tactic?
<In September 1911 he participated in a riot, led by socialists, against the Italian war in Libya. He bitterly denounced Italy's "imperialist war", an action that earned him a five-month jail term. After his release, he helped expel Ivanoe Bonomi and Leonida Bissolati from the Socialist Party, as they were two "revisionists" who had supported the war.
Yeah bro, seems like Italy got another aspiring "socialist" as a potential leader. Die Lebt just keeps winning everywhere, what a time to be alive!
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 No.472072

>>472069

It's even funnier because Meloni has never even been a socialist. She has less socialist cred than Mussolini.


File: 1690054986075.jpg ( 98.12 KB , 1084x604 , statecraft.jpg )

 No.471291[Reply]

Lets make this a pro and contra

Against censorship:
There has been some research done in capitalist countries that suggests that censorship has a tendency to silence poor people.
The Soviets had some censorship (although not to the degree that anti-communist propaganda says) and it did not prevent the revisionism from spreading.
A part of the Soviet information landscape was, that it was very scientifically accurate and virtually devoid of scams, there were no scammers trying to sell you free-energy devices or miracle-cure juice. Pyramid scams did not exist and nobody was pretending to be a medium that could contact your dead relatives. And the effect was that Soviet society had no mental defenses against bullshitters. People got accustomed to sanitized information and after the Soviet dissolution when the sanatisation disappeared they got duped by ALL the bullshit.

For censorship:
I think that censoring might actually have a singular useful application. Censoring News about terror attacks might be reasonable. Terrorism as a political strategy would be completely ineffective if there was no medium to spread the fear.


Some considerations:
My conclusion is that censorship is largely not worth it.

If you want to extinguish scams, you need to hire "white-hat" scam artists that do scam routines but instead of screwing people over they just cause embarrassment. That should be enough to cultivate mental defenses and dry out the pool of gullibility.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
71 posts and 13 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.471891

>>471871
>no argument
No anon, what you just posted was not an argument. Shall I restate mine? The overwhelming evidence is that people will construct authority-driven belief systems and behavioral patterns out of anything. The recent response to a global pandemic is another good example. In fact, to move closer to home, observe how dogmatic and myopic people become in their tiny Marxist sects or how state capitalist bureaucrats have imposed a fake Marxist orthodoxy on their populations that cannot be questioned. To pretend this is a behavior exclusive to religion will only result in half-baked solutions.
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 No.471943

>>471891
Not sure what to make of this.
You might be trying to blur the lines between state and religion and undermine separation of state and church. Which would also apply to a new type of religion that has no supernatural believes.

>observe how dogmatic and myopic people become in their tiny Marxist sects

>how state capitalist bureaucrats have imposed a fake Marxist orthodoxy on their populations that cannot be questioned.
Right now the threat against freedom of thought comes from neoliberal aligned stuff, like the coalescing "woke" secular religion. Small groups of Marxists or potential but non-existing Marxist state-capitalism, are no threat to anybody. It makes you seem very disingenuous if you try to shift the focus from an actual threat to an hypothetical one.

>To pretend this is a behavior exclusive to religion will only result in half-baked solutions.

Fair enough, we could broaden the scope of what counts as religion.
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 No.471944

>>471943
>Small groups of Marxists or potential but non-existing Marxist state-capitalism, are no threat to anybody.
And that's a bad thing.
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 No.471952

>>471944
>And that's a bad thing.
Sure. I think that the problem is how to overcome imperialism. If you look at Latin America for example there are plenty of successful socialist revolutions as well as also successful social democrat reformers overcoming capitalism locally. So the old question of re-form vs revolution is moot, both work. But when ever somebody does one of these, outside imperial capitalism begins attacking those projects and even if they can survive, they'll get stuck in lower stage socialism because they have to deal with siege conditions.

The other question about attacks on intellectual freedom remain as well. Why did neo-liberalism bring about those secular theocratic tendencies ?
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 No.472037

File: 1691885059633.jpg ( 54.61 KB , 498x640 , Portrait_of_Niccolò_Machia….jpg )

I am against censorship because I want to know what my enemies are thinking and whether or not my subjects will oppose my rule.


File: 1691187958173.jpg ( 371.42 KB , 1260x842 , nigerians.jpg )

 No.471638[Reply]

Nigeriens being Based at the moment. From what I gather they have a military junta going on atm, and told the French and Americans to go fuck themselves. sounds like leftychan that one time amirite

I hope they get to keep their uranium
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 No.471936

>>471905
>Russia came in to stabilize the government
which R*shia has invested too fucking much into to let it loose. Gotta love that bitch boy ASSad who's privatizing & selling everything he can just like mr. pooteen does for all of his presidency.
Fuck R*shian Empire 2.0: Nuclear Boogaloo.
All my homies hate R*shian Empire 2.0: Nuclear Boogaloo.
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 No.471939

>>471936
>Gotta love that bitch boy ASSad who's privatizing & selling everything he can just like mr. pooteen does for all of his presidency.
Source?
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 No.471950

>>471939
I'm not that anon, but there is indeed a story about the Syrian government shrinking because they have trouble paying decent salaries to public-sector employees. Tho it's not a verified story.
https://syrianobserver.com/news/83959/regime-is-facing-job-losses-due-to-privatization.html

If this story checks out, I think it would be very dishonest to construe this as Assad doing privatization for ideological reasons. People allegedly quit the public sector because it doesn't pay enough to live. Syria is having economic trouble because it's under economic-war sanctions.

I think the original plan was the Belt and Road project was supposed to get connected to Syria and that would help get them back on their feet. Not sure what the hold up is. The US still has a military presence in Syria maybe that's the cause.
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 No.471997

>>471939
>>471950
<Within a few years, Assad did make reforms — the kind that warmed the cockles of international bankers’ hearts. He “liberalized” the economy by selling off some state enterprises. He allowed businessmen to start up corporations such as cell phone companies that would have been state-owned in the past. Assad cleverly raised the hopes of Western powers that their businesspeople might benefit from the privatization. US and European officials deferred their criticisms of Syria. But it soon became clear that the privatization mainly benefitted Assad family cronies.
<Rami Makhlouf, an Assad cousin, is reportedly the richest man in Syria, worth an estimated $5 billion. He owns a variety of businesses, including tourist hotels, duty-free shops, and luxury department stores.[23] He became infamous for his role as owner of cell phone giant Syriatel. The company grew to control 55 percent of the Syrian market. In the early months of the 2011 uprising, regime opponents accused Makhlouf of financing pro-Assad demonstrations. They later learned that Syriatel was cooperating with the regime to tap activists’ phones. Demonstrators burned Syriatel posters and stomped on SIM cards in protest.[24]
<Some Syrians benefited from the crony capitalism as wealth trickled down to ordinary people. They could buy cell phones and later got connected to the Internet, albeit with close government monitoring of social media. But trickle-down wasn't enough. Most Syrians were angry at the poor state of the economy.

<Long before the uprising, on one sultry evening in Damascus, I met Hamad standing with a gaggle of friends in front of a café. Like many Syrians critical of the government, he declined to use his last name. At age twenty-two, he remained in school to avoid military conscription.

<Hamad told me it was “extremely difficult” to find work. “Most of my friends are not working, and those who are working receive a very low salary. The people who have jobs have connections.”[25]
<Hamad's comments were borne out in the economic statistics. InPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
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 No.472001

>>471997
>I also just found out about *ssad inviting fucking white supremacists, banned greek fascists & other similar socialists for giving speeches

"other similar socialists" ? Are you trying to conflate fascism with socialism ? usually that kind of ideological BS comes from the Neo-liberal extremism corner.

Anyway, assuming you didn't just make shit up, I wouldn't put much weight on the Syrian governments choices of guest-speakers, they probably had no other criteria besides: invite westerners that speak out against regime-change operations in Syria. It's also very unlikely that Syrians understand western political positions.

>I don't even know if \lebtyboll\ must be considered a petit imperialist propaganda project


Most anti-imperialist leftists lend critical support to Countries like Syria and heads of state like Bashar al-Assad because they don't want to be pseudo-leftist useful idiots for imperialism. There's basically no more political room to criticize the countries that are on the imperial regime-change list. Every criticism of Syria you can make, regardless how justified and correct it is, will be co-opted by the consent manufacturing machine.

Unless you can find away to short circuit the imperial consent manufacturing machine, there is not much use for this. To Syrians you'll never be more than an outsider attempting to meddle in their internal politics. As a westerner you're better off criticizing western governments. I get it this is much harder, because the system always tries to redirect critical voices towards criticizing external stuff. It's ass ineffective for you to criticize the Syrian government, as it is for Syrians to criticize the western governments.


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