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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1646068164145-0.png (581.31 KB, 800x480, cockshott.png)

File: 1646068164145-1.jpg (128.53 KB, 620x400, contracter.jpg)

 No.454571[Reply]

Paul gives a disastrously bad answer to a very fundamental question about petty exchanges of second-hand goods under socialism.
https://youtu.be/LxANS7vkg68?t=1842

The presenter brings up a very strong example of wanting to sell an old guitar, and paul sidesteps the problem by appealing to the idea of a barter and gift economy. This is exactly the kind of thing that would have the average person feel like communism has taken away their freedom. It gets too close to the capitalist plan "You will own nothing and be happy"

This bothers me because this shouldn't even be a problem in the first place. Paul has already run into this problem with trade workers and come up with a brilliant solution. Allowing the self-employed to have a state bank account. It's only a matter of universalizing this so everyone could make transactions with each other. Would this open up a route for accumulation? Well, people could rip themselves off through unequal exchange, but the same would happen without a currency as well. Better lubricating these kind of petty transactions rather than trying to sideline them would result in a healthier and more productive economy.

One flawed counter-argument is that currency would enable "illegal" transactions like prostitution or gambling. The problem with this argument is that currency is not the problem in such a scenario. Its cutting your nose off to spite your face. Crime should be dealt with at the level of law enforcement, making it tougher by making all personal transactions tougher is only going to push people further into a black market. Leave it to the future city council to deal with crime, whether by education and rehabilitation, or letting the people's militia beat it out of them with sticks.


As for the fear of accumulation. There's a man that started with a paperclip, and only through barter he ended up owning a home
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_red_paperclip
Exactly as with illegal activity, this is something that has to be accounted for at the level of the law, and not simply suppressed or dismissed as an aberration of an otherwise perfect system. Making it harder isn't a solution.

Let's take a real world example. A black man whose name I can't remember had started a business outside a Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
8 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.454617

>>454609
Money and markets have existed for thousands of years before capitalism. We aren't dominated by them, we are dominated by capitalism. Capitalism's value expansion is more useful for a greater amount of people than previous modes of production. So whatever comes next has to be better at serving people.

I'm saying that because at the individual level, having cash-on-hand and immediate decision making, is more effective than having to enter the details of a transaction into a form. Plus the bigger issue of transactions on entirely new ventures that are beyond the form. New paradigms, innovation, etc.. This is exactly why having the means of production(including financing risk) in the workers hands can defeat capitalism. You don't need the new idea to be profitable for a capitalist to invest. Instead, an individual, a small group of individuals, or a commune, could agree to do it based only on social need.

But you lose that advantage if the control over production is completely centralized. People need access to credit. Not capitalist credit. I don't mean it in any idealistic or romantic sense. Very practically in all communities big and small "I owe you one" is a large part of the economy.

And the easiest solution is what cockshott already is doing in another place. Let everyone exchange labor notes. As long as theres no exploitation of labor in the production process(which is something that has to be policed, like slavery), the circuit of capital won't happen and capitalism can't come back. Not anymore than serfdom can come back now.
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 No.454631

>>454617
You also could make it so the labor not s are only tied to your person and only you can spend them.
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 No.454644

>>454616
>The thing is micro exchanges will happen under a socialist and communist economic system. Petty exchanges of goods are not our concern nore should they be.
Fair enough but why shouldn't we try to invent money-less economic tools for that too.

>I'm saying that because at the individual level, having cash-on-hand and immediate decision making, is more effective than having to enter the details of a transaction into a form.

Cybernetic bartering was meant as replacement for ebay where you trade in second hand goods. In general the socialist cybernetic planning system uses labor vouchers instead of money that does have immediate decision making like cash, it's just that the labor vouchers don't circulate like money, that means they are destroyed after they were used for a purchase.

>Plus the bigger issue of transactions on entirely new ventures that are beyond the form. New paradigms, innovation, etc.. This is exactly why having the means of production(including financing risk) in the workers hands can defeat capitalism. You don't need the new idea to be profitable for a capitalist to invest. Instead, an individual, a small group of individuals, or a commune, could agree to do it based only on social need.

The socialist cybernetics system will enable workers to have control over their workplace, that doesn't need money based financing. In fact a economic accounting system that uses accounting based on material resources and human labor input will be much better for this. But this isn't really related to trading second hand goods, because that doesn't involve any production.

>But you lose that advantage if the control over production is completely centralized.

In socialist cybernetics the only thing that will be centralized somewhat is calculating the economic planning, but the control over that will be collective. The places where people work will be less concentrated than in capitalism because cybernetics doesn't use anything like firms or companies, since there are no capitalists that need to put workers into economic boxes that can be bought and sold.

>People need access to credit. Not capitalist credit.

Why would we have credit in socialism ?Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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 No.454676

>>454644
These situations already occur within cockshotts system and it doesn't make them commodities.

For example, if there's suddenly less sales of a certain shirt for whatever reason. First the shopkeeper lowers the labor price of the shirt which simultaneously sends a signal back to the production line to lower production. But if absolutely no more shirts are sold, then there's going to be a waste of shorts and a debt that society at large has to take on to cover. The production in the meantime is switched to something else, but the workers in that sector don't themselves take on the loss of labor, they're still given their notes for the work that turned out to not be needed.

So in the same way, if you give smaller entities access to credit and its just lost, the loss can be mitigated at various levels before the society wide one. individual, group, city, county, state, etc..

An hour of labor would remain an hour of labor, its just that a few, instead of everyone, would be responsible for allocating their labor unproductively. Which allows for faster and greater fluidity at these lower levels, not having to wait until everyone in the entire society agreed to include it into the grand plan.

For anyone familiar you are with military doctrines, there's a similar debate on how much top-down micromanaging should happen versus freedom to deviate at the lower levels where officers would be more aware of opportunities that need immediate decisions.
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 No.454678

>>454676
>For example, if there's suddenly less sales of a certain shirt for whatever reason. First the shopkeeper lowers the labor price of the shirt which simultaneously sends a signal back to the production line to lower production. But if absolutely no more shirts are sold, then there's going to be a waste of shorts and a debt that society at large has to take on to cover. The production in the meantime is switched to something else, but the workers in that sector don't themselves take on the loss of labor, they're still given their notes for the work that turned out to not be needed.

The reason why this will work and not affect workers, is because on the system as a hole these instances will cancel out. And thus the system can maintain labor time values for workers. The workers that just happened to work the production chain with the less or more popular shirt design will not be punished or rewarded for random changes in consumer preference while the system is still able to adapt to changing consumer preference.

>So in the same way, if you give smaller entities access to credit and its just lost, the loss can be mitigated at various levels before the society wide one. individual, group, city, county, state, etc..

>An hour of labor would remain an hour of labor, its just that a few, instead of everyone, would be responsible for allocating their labor unproductively. Which allows for faster and greater fluidity at these lower levels, not having to wait until everyone in the entire society agreed to include it into the grand plan.
>For anyone familiar you are with military doctrines, there's a similar debate on how much top-down micromanaging should happen versus freedom to deviate at the lower levels where officers would be more aware of opportunities that need immediate decisions.

No this is not about management styles, like top down or micromanagement , there is not going to be management in socialist cybernetic systems, the Soviet technical intelligentsia that managed Soviet firms betrayed the proletariat, when they let the Soviet Union be dissolved. We're not going to repeat the mistake of allowing stratification to happen, there can be no group of people whose interests become separate from the iPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


File: 1646184556207-0.png (109.69 KB, 648x756, bingo card SOTU.png)

File: 1646184556207-1.png (7.87 KB, 503x295, drinkng game SOTU.png)

 No.454624[Reply]

Hello everyone I'm organizing a State of the Union Watch Party tonight.

It begins at 9pm ET / 2am UTC.

I have attached a Bingo Card and Drinking Game Rules.

Come join the fun.

https://tv.leftypol.org/r/HappeningsviaKlash
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 No.454635

File: 1646243931352.png (1.73 MB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

Biden’s “State of the Union”: Confronting internal crisis, the American ruling class turns to war
>What emerges from Biden’s State of the Union speech above is that the campaign for war against Russia is being driven above all by the social and political crisis within the United States.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/02/pers-m02.html

Yes the growing social, and economical crisis in America has been further exacerbated by the Pandemic ever since the beginning of 2020. For this reason the ruling class factions know full well that this path will inevitably lead to an internal explosion, and that is precisely why they are now focusing their attention on war using Ukraine as a battleground state against Russia. All this is to force the public to shift their attention away from the growing internal upheaval. So Biden's so called unity speech now fits perfectly with this ongoing toxic environment.


File: 1645548267601.jpg (20.77 KB, 406x394, 1645538451396.jpg)

 No.454466[Reply]

Go on, now die for profits, for that is peace.
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 No.454468

Who published this? Lol
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 No.454588

>>454468
Cool it with the antisemitism, bucko


File: 1645987201971.png (107.15 KB, 444x344, apu.png)

 No.454557[Reply]

Ukraina i Krym, Belarus' i Moldova
Eto moja strana!
Sakhalin i Kamchatka, Ural'skie gory
Eto moja strana!


File: 1628220829060-0.png (1 KB, 220x147, download (2).png)

File: 1628220829060-1.png (2.92 KB, 274x184, download (3).png)

 No.425975[Reply]

What made their immigration policies so effective when importing millions of syrian, afghan, and somali refugees compared to westerners?
18 posts and 5 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.444051

They did not stay stable
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 No.454312

Do you really know this by first-hand?
Don't forget the mass rapes in Germany.
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 No.454336

>>425975
Turkey and Kenya are so unstable that adding more instability dosn't change anything
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 No.454360

if i insert the word “reactionary”, i can pretend that my chauvinist, ethnonationalist hatred of migrants from lower-wage countries is progressive and communist
apartheid was progressive because african men are misogynistic rapists bros
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 No.454521

>Turkey took refugees and stayed stabile
as a turk, please fuck off. ok?


File: 1641545780518.jpg (498.25 KB, 1280x720, 985499.large.jpg)

 No.453832[Reply]

I'm really enjoying all of the videogame journalists pissing and shidding themselves over the gold rush game publishers are in over NFTs.

Practically every major publisher is promising to integrate NFTs into games and some like Sega, are already selling them now.

One legitimate criticism of NFTs are their environmental impact. But every media talking head that brings this up never spoke out against the Iraq War that irradiated entire cities with depleted uranium munitions, or the Pentagon, who is the number single emitter of greenhouse gases.

So I'm with the crypto bros on this one say this is sour grapes on people that missed out on the ground floor of this get-rich-quick scheme.

I also see this as anger from the burger settler class who are now really getting priced out of the middle class lifestyle in earnest to the point where their steady diet of new videogames may soon be out of their reach. As someone who grew up poor and was always priced out of these type of consumerist leisure goods I relish their anguish.

Another example of this is when Settlers (read white people) shidded themselves over Disney's new $2000 a night Stars Wars themed hotel. As they rightfully saw this as a new trend in Disneyland Theme Parks where they will soon only cater to the 1%. I never got to go to Disneyland when I was young and was told by these same Settlers that I shouldn't be upset because I can live without it. Ironically, it's them who will now live without it while I can actually still afford to go.

And game journalists are particularly hypocritical because we've seen none scarce digital goods sold for 20+ years now, first with iTunes, and then with Amazon with books, and later Steam with games. No one every questioned the environmental impact of these systems.

Overall I think NFTs will be a net good for the proletariat, it will provide a second hand market of digital goods that proles have already spent billions on, and put a lot of equity in their pocket.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
73 posts and 5 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.454499

>>454497
Wow yes you grew up around computer scientists hu? Wow
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 No.454500

>>454495
>Grandma renting out a room doesn't make it private property.
YES IT DOES
The absolute fucking state of western leftists.
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 No.454503

File: 1645644647347.jpg (103.92 KB, 534x606, REBubble-szpcqk.jpg)

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 No.454506

>>454495
>That is true, but in order to get the full freedom like the ability to host a website on your home computer,
It was far more difficult to locally host your own website then than now.
You could get Windows Server 2003 with IIS but that license cost $$$ or you setup an Apache server on linux which was hard as balls as there wasn't good documentation or YouTube back then.
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 No.454507

>>454504
Uh yes the fuck you can. It's tedious as hell but you can do it. Putty is on the fucking app store.


File: 1645360644776-0.jpg (64.92 KB, 1200x753, bitch.jpg)

File: 1645360644776-1.jpg (16.35 KB, 375x231, bitch2.jpg)

 No.454425[Reply]

Do you know why the nazi lost?
Because of aestethic. It was a great point of advantage for them, they had very good aesthetic, and it made them succeed, but…
… but aesthetic is something that appeals to still human beings. Beauty is holy. Aesthetic made them not nazi enough and in the contradiction of being a dishuman force that still needed humanity, thus they lost. The essence of nazism was Auschwitz
and there was no aesthetic in Auschwitz, it wasn't anything nice to see, but outside of it they had cool uniforms and such. Now you can see the contemporary neo-nazism that is winning because they absolutely have no aesthetic whatsoever, on purpose. They are fucking ugly and disseminate the destruction of aesthetic everywhere they go. They put their mask on. They have killed humanity. The nazi project can continue.
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 No.454428

The naiz failed because they were horrible strategic planners and flamboyant in their genocidal rage.l through out one of the strongest powers on the planet at the time the USSR and they even managed to piss off the USA as well. That's why they failed. Aesthetics have nothing to do with it.
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 No.454429

nazis were idiots to begin with
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 No.454430

>>454428
t.complete moron, marx-illiterate, cognitive disordered, undialectical whore
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 No.454431

>>454428
you are the reason why nazis are winning today. you don't understand shit. nazi failed last time because humanity was still alive, that's the point, I think it's not difficult.
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 No.454432

>>454425
>Do you know why the nazi lost?
The Soviet Military was more powerful, soviet heavy industry was much larger and better managed, attacking the Soviet Union was really dumb.

>>454431
>nazi failed last time because humanity was still alive
You mean that as a metaphore for ?


File: 1645106669057.png (3.13 MB, 2200x3800, lysenko101.png)

 No.454390[Reply]

Imagine having the privilege to witness the greatest primitive accumulation of all history but missing it because you believed them and thought it was a virus.
Jfc my sides I can't stop laughing when I think of it this way.
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 No.454393

What the fuck are you talking about?
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 No.454402

>>454393
About what you don't see yet is in front of your eyes.
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 No.454408

File: 1645218285766.jpeg (6.42 KB, 252x200, images.jpeg)

So you are telling me that Mr Oakie Doke was born because someone fucked an oak???
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 No.454414

In my experience the problem isn't so much that leftists believe it's actually about the virus, but that they've been so blinded by ideology and cancer within leftism that they choose to join along with the virus narrative because they think it will lead to the left equivalent of the Boogaloo. That, and they want to just see people suffer, not getting that they're the people who will lose the most credibility in all of this. Even then, the biggest problem is not convincing people about the "virus", but overcoming the way left forums are policed by malicious actors, and how leftists are susceptible to that shittery in particular. Same reason why the progressive stack stuff was introduced - take advantage of college students' desire to not hurt other people and naivete to convince them that a stilted ritual of communication is necessary, thus allowing influencers that much more leverage, especially when the ritual upholds the ruling ideas more than anything oppositional to it. Like, a lot of white college leftists don't want to appear racist, but they don't actually ask a black commoner what they think about any of this, or want to deal with them as they are. It doesn't make much sense to me personally… maybe it's because I grew up going to ghetto schools and had none of the markers for social advancement nor any expectation that I was any better than scum.

Anyway the left has been horrible for a long time, and this is just the final end of the old left. All that remains now is this carcass the students made into their own echo chamber, and it was not difficult to see how leftism could be turned into a pro-imperial faction. To go against this would have required understanding the threat posed by ecologism at the least, and probably a lot more. And ultimately you have to look at the faults of the Marxists themselves to figure out why it ended up this way, but I imagine if the USSR were still around this bullshit wouldn't fly.


File: 1644942207125.png (259.8 KB, 1804x1080, fuckingjannies.png)

 No.454376[Reply]

fucking caught them in the act. I had a suspicion this was going on but this is the first time I have hard proof. fuck them
1 post omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.454379

>>454378
M00dy is an org mod
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 No.454383

>>454379
you can trust your sweet and loveable leftychan mods
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 No.454384

>>454376
.org mod team is compromised as fuck
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 No.454385

>>454376
They ban me for making good faith threads on Siberia yet they keep the numerous porn threads up.
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 No.454413

Leftypol is completely controlled at this point, not that it was ever not basically a /pol colony. I just gave up entirely on the left as a meaningful force - I hate to be one of those "why I left the Left" people, but what the hell is leftism at this point? It's quite clear that moody is tasked with steering conversations for his paymasters, along with likely the other moderators who insinuated themselves into leadership positions.


File: 1628801169947.jpg (74.9 KB, 736x1040, b1f0630c68df10fb23cfa1b213….jpg)

 No.441941[Reply]

1 really important thing anyone that has ever been an engineer at hell even trade worker learns is that innovation takes time and multiple attempts, you cannot reasonably learn how to assemble components together to perform a specific function wether building an engine, generator, new machine, material whatever and expect that design to perform its given task effectively the first time it was created. What I see people like elon musk,Jeff bezos, ma huateng, jack ma, anyone that works as a leader at NASA, etc all have in common is that they're collectively trying to push unfinished or poorly tested designs for their products and machinery into the global market to be sold or used by governments for their purposes and seem to exhibit 0 regard for the scientific method, and 0 willingness to improve on their garbage machines, no invention or design turns out perfect I can understand that's the case for anyone that's ever had to work as an engineer in whatever field but this laziness is noticeable enough to a degree that the unprofessionalism is apparent when you start seeing spaceX rockets flat out fucking explode while landing, or amazon delivery drones running out of energy while they're performing their service, or chinese made phones wether made locally or by westerners outsourcing their supply chains breaking within a few weeks from minor collisions. It's really embarrassing and wastes a fuck ton of time and resources along with contributing tremendous amounts of damage as models need to be mass produced for testing maintenance and assembling before a finished design can be released, a wealth that contributes to global e waste and excessive(and really inefficient usage) mining of rare earth metals along with oil drilling. Oh well sorry for this rant if it's off topic to you mods…
3 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.442077

>>442060
At the risk of sounding like a lolbert boomer removing money from the gold standard to free up more money that can be pumped into capitalism and that can be pocketed using financial fuckery.
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 No.454309

>>441941
Because they won't do many sales without PROGRAMMATED OBSOLESCENCE.
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 No.454323

>>454309
>Because they won't do many sales without PROGRAMMATED OBSOLESCENCE.
No that is not really true, people always want the shiny new thing, if the old stuff is durable, it gets sold to the second hand market. Without planned obsolescence stuff would just be handed down more, and society would collectively be richer. I think they are doing this to keep poorer people from having access to nice things.
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 No.454367

>>442060
> I dont know what happened in 1971 but ever since that year technological innovation has accelerated in quantity but decelerated in actual quality
dafaq does this even mean
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 No.454406

File: 1645209084438.jpg (906.78 KB, 4000x2251, 2021_Sequencing_cost_per_M….jpg)

also the few companies that do produce useful tech are almost always gov contractors


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