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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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 No.305951[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

aka /leftypol/: An Exploration into the Causes and Effects of Identity Politics.
Let's get to the bottom of identity politics, bane of the radical left and blockade to normie socialism.

ITT post about idpol and anti-idpol.
Post literature, effortposts, infographics, etc.
Post about what idpol is, the history of idpol, idpol today, the problems with it, and how to deal with it.

The point of this thread is to develop our discourse on the topic. Currently the meaning of idpol and many people's understanding of it is extremely nebulous. This is a problem for us in addressing it in general. It is a problem for the mods appropriately moderating it. It's a problem for users knowing what posts are good. Most importantly it's an obstacle to people knowing what kind of theory is sensible and based versus what is idpozzed and cringe. Most of us will agree that idpol is a problem the left deals with to some degree more or less online or in real life. It is both an inferior understanding of politics and a way of baiting people. What we sometimes don't agree on is what idpol is and how it works. That's what this thread is for: fleshing out our discourse so that we can better combat liberalism (and other right wing politics) and promote communism.
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I wonder if I could have my cake and eat it. Be a right wing media grifter, but literally just engage in Marxist takes.
It seems when it comes to Idpol, being a Marxist is literally a far-right position according to Libs.


Maybe if you can center on class politics you can gain support from people across the cultural spectrum. You should probably avoid using the bourgeois political left-right divide to understand politics. I think that would be limiting your self to cultural preferences of different bourgeois factions.

We may have to update our labels, because liberals are not liberal anymore, their focus is almost entirely on regulating the individual, they seem to be increasingly opposed to granting people more autonomy over their immediate environment, bodies, minds and personal possessions.

The liberals are also no longer championing social progress. For example there has been a huge regression in terms of prostitution. The liberals of the past used to agree with socialists that women ought not be forced to rent them selves out as prostitutes to affluent men. The people who see them selves as liberal today will explode in rage if you suggest that they can't command sex with money.

I'm also suspicious about other social theories from the liberals, i think it's going to be used to attack reproductive-rights for women. G-theory for example is minimizing the focus on the reproductive aspects of sexuality. This is certainly very convenient from the perspective of somebody trying to cloak their attacks on female reproductive rights. If womanhood is no longer defined by reproduction than the protections for womanhood will no longer cover reproduction.
The material explanation for this development might be that capitalism is attempting to commodify human-gestation. So that affluent bourgeois women no longer have to bare children but can rent surrogate wombs for that. Wealthy women will no longer need the protection of female reproductive rights to have autonomy over their bodies. They might even come to see it in the opposite light. The physical demands of pregnancy are a big disadvantage in the game of capital accumulation, and bourgeois women might see access to "womb-services" as a way to gain more "bourgeois-equality" compared to bourgeois men.

Socialists and people who used to be considered left would obviously be opposed to turning proletarian women into living gestation-pods for bourgeois spawn. But the liberals will likely champion this the same way they regressed on prostitution. I foresee surrogate womb services as a kindPost too long. Click here to view the full text.




Look, I’m gonna level with you here. Like the vast majority of leftists who have been minted since Occupy Wall Street, my principles, values, and policy preferences don’t stem from a coherent set of moral values, developed into an ideology, which then suggests preferred policies. At all. That requires a lot of reading and I’m busy organizing black tie fundraisers at work and bringing Kayleigh and Dakota to fencing practice. I just don’t have the time. So my politics have been bolted together in a horribly awkward process of absorbing which opinions are least likely to get me screamed at by an online activist or mocked by a podcaster. My politics are therefore really a kind of self-defensive pastiche, an odd Frankensteining of traditional leftist rhetoric and vocabulary from Ivy League humanities departments I don’t understand. I quote Marx, but I got the quote from Tumblr. I cite Gloria Anzaldua, but only because someone on TikTok did it first. I support defunding the police because in 2020, when the social and professional consequences for appearing not to accept social justice norms were enormous, that was the safest place for me to hide. I maintain a vague attachment to police and prison abolition because that still appears to be the safest place for me to hide. I vote Democrat but/and call myself a socialist because that is the safest place for me to hide. I’m not a bad person; I want freedom and equality. I want good things for everyone. But politics scare and confuse me. I just can’t stand to lose face, so I have to present all of my terribly confused ideals with maximum superficial confidence. If you probe any of my specific beliefs with minimal force, they will collapse, as those “beliefs” are simply instruments of social manipulation. I can’t take my kid to the Prospect Park carousel and tell the other parents that I don’t support police abolition. It would damage my brand and I can’t have that. And that contradiction you detected, where I support maximum forgiveness for crime but no forgiveness at all for being offensive? For me, that’s no contradiction at all. Those beliefs are not part of a functioning and internally-consistent political system but a potpourri of deracinated slogans that protect me from headaches I don’t need. I never wanted to be a leftist. I just wanted to take my justifiable but inchoate feelings of dissatisfaction with the way things are and wrap them up into part of the narrative that I tell other people about myself, the Post too long. Click here to view the full text.


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At Oxford students now live in fear, they think cancelling each other will help them get ahead

<Even basic human connection is tainted at Oxford. Every student will at some point inevitably learn what’s known as a “hack” is, and realise that they did not make an enthusiastic new friend (“We should do coffee sometime, yeah?”), but in fact, the entire interaction was designed to get your vote for whatever minor position they may be running for that term. The coffee will never happen, and you won’t hear from them again until they pop up in your messages, asking for your vote.

<It’s been said that at Oxford “You don’t have friends, you have alliances”. However, even those are shaky at best. Whilst I imagine the nature of this has been the same for many years, it is certainly worse in ways today. At parties and events, people live in fear of something they say or do being recorded. This is more than just the effects of the internet age - it is well known that certain people, especially in student politics or journalism, often secretly audio record the entire evening in the hope of catching someone out.

<The worst part is that it doesn’t matter who it is they catch. People have publicly “cancelled” their closest friends, and even their partners. Furthermore, nothing is off limits to be used as material. Family issues, mental health, relationships - all of it can and will be used against you.

<Concerningly, some people do not even feel bound by the truth. They know that there is nothing their victim can do, and trying to do anything would just draw more attention to the claim, alongside requiring lengthy battles and lawyers not all students can afford. The process is the punishment, and the evidence will live online forever. And thanks to a popular anonymous Facebook page (the content of which is controlled by a few with vested interests), attacks can be made anonymously too.


This is even more hardcore than i thought.

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The strikes are massive and the political opposition to macron's pension-rape has doubled from 26% to 46% in just a few months.

Macron has undemocratically bypassed the french parliament by using article 49.3 of the french constitution, to box this through. However it's now possible to oust him with a no-confidence motion.

There's a very strong possibility that this is Macrons political suicide, and it's very unlikely that this pension-rape will stand. The French imperial bourgeoisie has recently lost a lot of power in their African pseudo-colonies. The president of the Congo Felix Tshisedkedi recently flat out told Macron to shut-up his "imperial paternalism" during a political conference. And that means they can't fight against the french proles at home and fight to maintain imperial dominance in Africa at the same time.

I don't know enough about the political realities in France to make predictions about the ramifications, but seems that the imperial bourgeoisie in France is going to get a serious haircut.

Video source for the op-pic
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Meanwhile, burgers would literally let their boss have sex with their wives while they watch.







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Based frog protestors stormed a Blackrock office

<Paris/London(CNN) Demonstrators forced their way into the building that houses BlackRock's office in Paris Thursday, taking their protest against the government's pension reforms to the world's biggest money manager.

<Videos shared on social media showed protesters entering the Centorial office block, located near the Opéra Garnier opera house, holding red flares and firing smoke bombs.

<About 100 people, including representatives of several labor unions, were on the ground floor of the building for about 10 minutes, chanting anti-reform slogans. BlackRock's office is located on the third floor.

<"The meaning of this action is quite simple. We went to the headquarters of BlackRock to tell them: the money of workers, for our pensions, they are taking it," Jerome Schmitt, spokesman for French union SUD, told CNN affiliate BFM-TV. BlackRock declined to comment.


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This might not be worthy of its own thread, but once you've built a solid support base within one workplace/neighborhood/whatever, how do you build connections with other activists while simultaneously avoiding feds as best as possible(I am pessimistic on how possible that is, but that is a gut feeling rather than something that I have strong logic on, and will accept criticism)? If anyone has insight, it'd do a great service.


I don't think you're going to be able to avoid feds, and spending too much effort to try to weed them out is effort you're not expending toward the actual things you want to accomplish. Far better to assemble structures and rules from the outset that are resistant to sabotage. For example, don't ever give leaders too much power so that their position becomes a target for opportunists. Conversely, don't use anti-democratic decision-making processes such as "consensus" that allow the weakest link to sabotage decisions. At all costs, you want to avoid the kind of performative arrangements that allow narcissist identarians to make meetings about themselves instead the actual fucking task at hand. Feds or not, they are the ultimate wreckers. Never give these people an inch or they'll take a mile.


Rather than asking yourself what a cop/fed would look like so you can avoid them, ask yourself "What is a cop/fed likely to do in this situation, and how can we obviate it?"


If you can't avoid an opponent try figuring out how to exploit them. If you can harvest the energy from their attacks, you'll get stronger the more they attack you.


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>If you can harvest the energy from their attacks, you'll get stronger the more they attack you.


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>If you can harvest the energy from their attacks, you'll get stronger the more they attack you.

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The international criminal court has long had a questionable reputation for having a colonial bias because it almost exclusively has convicted war-criminals from Africa, and virtually non from western countries.

However i think there might be a conspiracy to erode it's legitimacy entirely before destroying it.

I think it started around 2018 when there were attempts to convict war-criminals from the US. It is important to know that the US is not a signatory to the various international treaties that could give the ICC jurisdiction over the US and it citizens.

Attempting to expand the reach of the jurisdiction of a criminal court is very risky because if it fails, it will damage the courts legitimacy within it's existing jurisdictions. And what happened in this case was that the US approved a law that would enable the US to invade the Netherlands in case they arrested US citizens to put them on trial in The Hague.

And recently they have done a similar thing again, but this time picked a fight with a different superpower, that is equally unlikely to yield because it too is not a signatory to international treaties that grant the ICC jurisdiction. They issued a arrest warrant against the Russian head of state, that got denied by the deputy head of the Security Council of the Russian Federation. Basically they threatened to destroy the ICC with hyper-sonic missiles if they tried to affect any arrests.

But this time the consequences went beyond military saber-rattling and legitimacy damage for the ICC, this time a number of countries have exited the international treaties, effectively rescinding the ICC jurisdiction, because they don't want the obligation to arrest the Russian head of state. Motivated by business interests and fear from retaliation of the Russian federation if they tried to go through with it.

I think that this goes beyond abusing a legal court for political goals, i think this is also about destroying an institution that over time could grow out of it's colonial legacy and become a truly international institution with the power to impose the legal discipline of international law on anybody, including the most powerful people.

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During marx's time money based on precious metals like gold or silver were the universal commodity, against which all other commodities were measured.

After money was detached from metal, the only real universal commodity money was the dollar because that was the only one against which all other commodities were measured. And you could say many of the big currencies that were easily converted into dollars had some of that universality rub off on them. By the way i count precious metal derived money as fiat money as well.

After the US began expanding sanctions at some point they crossed the line where the dollar can't be considered as the universal commodity against which all other commodities are measured anymore.

Precious metals are still universal in the sense that every economy will exchange for it, but you can't really use it to buy stuff. Shops don't have scales for measuring the weight of metal anymore, and won't accept pieces of metal as payments. That means that it's not really money.

There are a select few crypto moneys that appear to have the ambition to become a universal commodity, but they are very far away from realizing that.

So where does that leave universal commodity money ?
Does that still exist ?
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>Anyone who doesn't agree with me is more evidence to supports my worldview


You reek of Tavistock.


How do you know what it smells like though?


It's so odious that the smell is transmitted by words alone. You know it when you develop a sense for it.


Sounds like you spend a decent amount of time around troons. No doubt all part of the eugenics plot

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Why does the left have such a massive issue with protecting itself against Cluster B (BPD, NPD, ASPD) types worming their way into orgs and up the ladder? Why do in particular, BPD's gravitate to the left?
It's very likely that several Actually Existing Socialist leaders with Cluster B (*CoughCeausescuCough*) and I've watched with my own eyes, BPDs and Narcissists wreck orgs i've been involved in and watched them time and time again wreck movements and orgs across multiple countries.
Every time I've watched this happen, nobody has called out their unhinged behaviour and pulled them into line, instead, half the org usually does the "You go! show them!" when the person starts dolling out the unhinged accusations or wrecking while the other half just plays along for whatever reason.
I mean, just look at all the Nu-Gender theory Idpol shit which is pretty much Borderline Personality Disorder the movement, yet the Baizuo lets these people pretty much set the "purity requirement" for the modern left despite their positions being completely schizo, slippery sloping by the day and incoherent.
It's a clear weakness of the left that organisational discipline doesn't seem to kick in against these types and that people seem terrified of calling them out. How can the left learn to better deal with the personality disordered? Especially the Borderlines that run rife through our movement?
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It is easy enough to call the sexual politics shit what it is without succumbing to weakness. What is difficult is answering the underlying question which makes that sexual politics a constant pressure that can be used to derail politics. It forces the left to take a stand in favor of eugenic separation of certain undesirables, without taking care to judge what these things are. The Marxist philosophy doesn't allow for genuine dissent in the ranks of the movement - it's a total system by design, so there is an implied orthodox sexual politics. This is why sexual politics was a preferred vehicle for destabilizing communism, in addition to all of the things that suggested sexual politics was a psychological vehicle to disrupt any mass politics. At its core is a seething contempt for the very idea that democratic assemblies are possible, and this too was a weakness of the Marxist thinking on the political. Ultimately Marxism and a democratic society were incompatible, but this was mystified because the concept of democracy itself was no longer comprehensible except as a vague idea. A meaningful democracy would entail the people receiving their shit back as a first step, before any concessions to the state or "society" as an abstraction are considered. That was the bare minimum for socialism to be situation people wanted to maintain, and so far as socialism was successful, it did pay attention to people wanting their shit back and a degree of freedom to live their damn lives. The same strategies that destroy any nascent democratic forms were very applicable to socialist societies, because they never overcame their philosophical weaknesses. Mao at least was trying to bridge that gap but good luck getting that through with how fucked China was in 1949.


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What creeps me out, personally, isn't so much that it happens - of course it does, and in at least some cases it's very clear that the success of wreckers is down to some very shady people trying to promote them and use them to subvert organizations.

What creeps me out, personally, more even than the presence of bad actors and ill-will… is people apparently falling for it. Again and again. Like how fucking stupid are these people?

It just happens all the time - bad ideas, cynical clawing for power, idpol guilt tripping, weird coked out idpol cults like Black Hammer… for fuck's sake, people! Come on. It's fucking ridiculous the shit people fall for, and not just when the most egregious idpol schizos are doing it. The rise of Keir Starmer basic followed the same pattern on a larger scale, but in support of the blandest, shittiest ""centrist"" possible. It's so, so sad having seen this unfold from the United States, because I stupidly assumed that people in the UK might be a bit keener, might have learned from Blair… but no, doesn't seem like it, all it took was insane lies about Corbyn repeated often enough to get him out of the way.

People really ought to be able to see through this shit by now, but they rarely do!


*basically followed


>Agreed, but then is the left so unable to police against BPD/NPD abuse and behaviour. It's not like these people aren't extremely obvious, just people refuse to stop them.

Well, I wonder about that tbqh… because the degree of concession is frankly a bit confusing, you know? Even if privately some folks higher up might admit that the stuff these folks do is shit, if you say it yourself you might feel pretty alone. If the whole group is just lying, just letting a few folks abuse the rest of them to be "diplomatic"… well, it's almost difficult to believe.


>is people apparently falling for it. Again and again. Like how fucking stupid are these people?

From experience, this has happened to me several times since I WILL call out bullshit.
Every time this happens, I get octricised from the group. Why? Because wreckers have their allies and those who benefit from the wrecking who whill use your calling them out as bad faith as evidence of your "reactionary beliefs" or whatever, then you have a whole bunch of useful idiots, who just play along because they don't want to be seen as bad or half the time, want to fuck the wrecker (usually a transwoman or woman).
Right now, go into any Leftist fbi.gov, Subreddit, Libcom, Revleft and callout the insane idpol bullshit, even from a Marxist position and watch what happens, your account won't survived the day.
People are just that dumb as well, it's very rare to actually come across Leftists who are Leftists based on a position of theory rather than "muh morals", this is why most leftist slurp down reactionary, liberal idpol, because it "sounds nice", "is the moral thing to do" rather than it having any grounding in a theoretical backing.

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I've just finished watching the Caleb & Haz discourse here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5uUuB6Slqk about "muh third worldists and US socialist patriotism" (which was basically a covert response to the recent Caleb vs. Unruhe drama on Twitter), and came to a revelation.

Caleb emphasizes (generally, but in this exchange as well) how just like China had its "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics" so will the USA in the foreseeable future have its "Socialism with Amurrican Characteristics [SWAC]." So it made me wonder… what would SWAC look like? And then I had a revelation. It would be how like their current advocates are, meaning Caleb and Haz: bullshitters making shit work by bullshitting.

If you aren't familiar with this take I'll give you a crash course:
>Caleb Maupin
>well read on communist history
<literal booklet when it comes to Marxist economics and philosophy
>tries to start an IRL movement
<is indistinguishable from a fucking Bob Avakian-type cult


>well read on non-Marxist philosophy
<literal booklet when it comes to Marxist economics and world history
>tries to start an online movement
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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The materialist base is completely different country to country.
For example, just look at urban planning, high density, walkable European cities have led to a more civic minded, collectivist people, meanwhile the American suburbs are a breeding ground for "fuck you got mine" lolbert culture.
Any Socialist messaging and movement will need to adapt to the material and cultural reality of that region, at least for the first couple decades as the society is reorganised. Subruban American lolberts aren't going to become identical to say, European Social Democratic people the second Socialism takes place.


>The materialist base is completely different country to country.
only if we're talking about small ass countries
but if we're talking about economic blocks or continents then differences level out


Both the left and the right in America hates the revolution. They hate the radical core that lies in the history of the United States. I am convinced that it would be more subversive to genuinely believe in the constitution than to dismiss it.


>no one can escape his concrete environmental upbringing and such
Then how the fuck are revolutionaries being made into existence? What a pile of fascistic vulgar-materialistic dehumanizing bullshit. Like hoomans are fucking animals who only adapt to their environment & not consciences who actively deny their surroundings and bend reality to their will.
Sure, maybe you can not escape your environment, but as a human you surely can fuck it up enough for it to escape you, just like porks do after any successfull people's revolution.


>antithetical to communism, Marx & Engels
Did you use The Le Das Capitull for wiping your ass? Y'know, like a card-reader? How else coud you come to this absolutely deranged conclusion which contradicts the entire reason they despised the current state of things & actively tried to dismantle it @ least theoretically?
Why did Engels get rid of his share in his family's factory?
Why did Marx write his *dunno how they are named in engrish* Manuscripts?
Why did they both endure their hardships instead of pursuing the immense success they both could've achieved (& already had, & the start) in this society of accumulating capital?
Why did commies always state their ultimate wish as the fullest personal development of every human being as a pre-requisite for the fullest development of a society & the entire humanity as the ultimate goal for communism?

Humanism is literally what drove the socialists and communists to become marxists, read Kollontai to learn about that. & this is because humanism is the name of the way of conscience which helps you to overcome your alienation from the other and become communis with your peers, however retarded & anti-humanistic they might be.
Imagine not feeling sorry for perishing fascists for the totally degenerate nature of inescapable failure, death, guilt & destruction that was forced on them through their entire unlives. The best treatment you can give to a fash is the death, about which they fantasize allllllll the time. Kill them like mad dogs & they will be happy for the release from their neverending pointless exiPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


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>Socialism with based American characteristics (pic related)

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Reminder that doctors are class enemies. They are the reason healthcare is so expensive in the US.

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Really, it's the entire insurance industry that jacks up health are costs by literally providing no value while maintaining themselves by skimming off the top


uygha I'm not learning politics from tiktok


Doctors are greedy capitalist scum. Pill pushing retards. The term doctor wasnt even intended for them as the retards dont do any actual research, theyre just medical technicians. They deserve no prestige or respect as they do it for the $$ and not for society.

Doesnt apply to Cuban docs or docs under communist societies though


AMA is literally a mob cartel, they control licensing and artificially red tape the entire medical profession to keep prices high. They literally contribute nothing and still lobby hospitals and research organizations on the regular.

Death to them and all murican doctors


sage yourself for being retarded. Doctors under capitalism are cursed, they dont give a shit about anything other than money. Thats why misdiagnosis is like 40% or more and they are virtually immune from being sued for fucking up

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Why are real communists so based?
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I never said that heterosexuality couldn’t be perverted, just not entirely manipulated like homosexuality
>material basis is when you coom
<this retard actually thinks I’m trying to argue that homosexuals don’t exist lol
I agree with the other anon. I have literally never seen an irl example of liberal brain rot before I’m impressed
Read more lib.
>According to the materialist conception of history, the ultimately determining element in history is the production and reproduction of real life. Other than this neither Marx nor I have ever asserted. Hence if somebody twists this into saying that the economic element is the only determining one, he transforms that proposition into a meaningless, abstract, senseless phrase.


Homosexuality is not manipulated you moronic homophobe. What do you think the Jews are making people gay? It's all commoditified under capitalism and thus meaningless. Sexuality is just another product to be bought and sold you brainlet your sacred cow of heterosexuality is not special.

You are clearly to stupid to understand what is being said to you so you have to resort to these strawmen and dumb personal attacks o I'll just leave you to beat yourself off over your half baked analysis.




Homosexuality is not manipulated you moronic homophobe. What do you think the Jews are making people gay? It's all commoditified under capitalism and thus meaningless. Sexuality is just another product to be bought and sold you brainlet your sacred cow of heterosexuality is not special.

You are clearly to stupid to understand what is being said to you so you have to resort to these strawmen and dumb personal attacks o I'll just leave you to beat yourself off over your half baked analysis.


It's literally the main form of Socialism in the Global South…

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Based congressman Matt Gaetz blasts ghoulish DOD bureaucrat over training African coup leaders. At this point, I think it's clear which party is the lesser of two evils, and it's not the party of finger snapping bosswomen and their simps.


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Holy based.


Both parties are that at this point. If you actually encounter the active participants in Republican Party politics, you see some of the grodiest scum of humanity. This is the party of Reagan, after all.

If you're still participating in the farce of American politics at this point, you really aren't getting it.


>thinking there's a good side

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