/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>467991
It is easy enough to call the sexual politics shit what it is without succumbing to weakness. What is difficult is answering the underlying question which makes that sexual politics a constant pressure that can be used to derail politics. It forces the left to take a stand in favor of eugenic separation of certain undesirables, without taking care to judge what these things are. The Marxist philosophy doesn't allow for genuine dissent in the ranks of the movement - it's a total system by design, so there is an implied orthodox sexual politics. This is why sexual politics was a preferred vehicle for destabilizing communism, in addition to all of the things that suggested sexual politics was a psychological vehicle to disrupt any mass politics. At its core is a seething contempt for the very idea that democratic assemblies are possible, and this too was a weakness of the Marxist thinking on the political. Ultimately Marxism and a democratic society were incompatible, but this was mystified because the concept of democracy itself was no longer comprehensible except as a vague idea. A meaningful democracy would entail the people receiving their shit back as a first step, before any concessions to the state or "society" as an abstraction are considered. That was the bare minimum for socialism to be situation people wanted to maintain, and so far as socialism was successful, it did pay attention to people wanting their shit back and a degree of freedom to live their damn lives. The same strategies that destroy any nascent democratic forms were very applicable to socialist societies, because they never overcame their philosophical weaknesses. Mao at least was trying to bridge that gap but good luck getting that through with how fucked China was in 1949.

What creeps me out, personally, isn't so much that it happens - of course it does, and in at least some cases it's very clear that the success of wreckers is down to some very shady people trying to promote them and use them to subvert organizations.

What creeps me out, personally, more even than the presence of bad actors and ill-will… is people apparently falling for it. Again and again. Like how fucking stupid are these people?

It just happens all the time - bad ideas, cynical clawing for power, idpol guilt tripping, weird coked out idpol cults like Black Hammer… for fuck's sake, people! Come on. It's fucking ridiculous the shit people fall for, and not just when the most egregious idpol schizos are doing it. The rise of Keir Starmer basic followed the same pattern on a larger scale, but in support of the blandest, shittiest ""centrist"" possible. It's so, so sad having seen this unfold from the United States, because I stupidly assumed that people in the UK might be a bit keener, might have learned from Blair… but no, doesn't seem like it, all it took was insane lies about Corbyn repeated often enough to get him out of the way.

People really ought to be able to see through this shit by now, but they rarely do!

>>468091
*basically followed

>>467991
>Agreed, but then is the left so unable to police against BPD/NPD abuse and behaviour. It's not like these people aren't extremely obvious, just people refuse to stop them.

Well, I wonder about that tbqh… because the degree of concession is frankly a bit confusing, you know? Even if privately some folks higher up might admit that the stuff these folks do is shit, if you say it yourself you might feel pretty alone. If the whole group is just lying, just letting a few folks abuse the rest of them to be "diplomatic"… well, it's almost difficult to believe.

>>468091
>is people apparently falling for it. Again and again. Like how fucking stupid are these people?

From experience, this has happened to me several times since I WILL call out bullshit.
Every time this happens, I get octricised from the group. Why? Because wreckers have their allies and those who benefit from the wrecking who whill use your calling them out as bad faith as evidence of your "reactionary beliefs" or whatever, then you have a whole bunch of useful idiots, who just play along because they don't want to be seen as bad or half the time, want to fuck the wrecker (usually a transwoman or woman).
Right now, go into any Leftist fbi.gov, Subreddit, Libcom, Revleft and callout the insane idpol bullshit, even from a Marxist position and watch what happens, your account won't survived the day.
People are just that dumb as well, it's very rare to actually come across Leftists who are Leftists based on a position of theory rather than "muh morals", this is why most leftist slurp down reactionary, liberal idpol, because it "sounds nice", "is the moral thing to do" rather than it having any grounding in a theoretical backing.

>>467918
The materialist base is completely different country to country.
For example, just look at urban planning, high density, walkable European cities have led to a more civic minded, collectivist people, meanwhile the American suburbs are a breeding ground for "fuck you got mine" lolbert culture.
Any Socialist messaging and movement will need to adapt to the material and cultural reality of that region, at least for the first couple decades as the society is reorganised. Subruban American lolberts aren't going to become identical to say, European Social Democratic people the second Socialism takes place.

>>467919
>The materialist base is completely different country to country.
only if we're talking about small ass countries
but if we're talking about economic blocks or continents then differences level out

>>467914
Both the left and the right in America hates the revolution. They hate the radical core that lies in the history of the United States. I am convinced that it would be more subversive to genuinely believe in the constitution than to dismiss it.

>>451642
>no one can escape his concrete environmental upbringing and such
Then how the fuck are revolutionaries being made into existence? What a pile of fascistic vulgar-materialistic dehumanizing bullshit. Like hoomans are fucking animals who only adapt to their environment & not consciences who actively deny their surroundings and bend reality to their will.
Sure, maybe you can not escape your environment, but as a human you surely can fuck it up enough for it to escape you, just like porks do after any successfull people's revolution.

>humanism
>antithetical to communism, Marx & Engels
Did you use The Le Das Capitull for wiping your ass? Y'know, like a card-reader? How else coud you come to this absolutely deranged conclusion which contradicts the entire reason they despised the current state of things & actively tried to dismantle it @ least theoretically?
Why did Engels get rid of his share in his family's factory?
Why did Marx write his *dunno how they are named in engrish* Manuscripts?
Why did they both endure their hardships instead of pursuing the immense success they both could've achieved (& already had, & the start) in this society of accumulating capital?
Why did commies always state their ultimate wish as the fullest personal development of every human being as a pre-requisite for the fullest development of a society & the entire humanity as the ultimate goal for communism?

Humanism is literally what drove the socialists and communists to become marxists, read Kollontai to learn about that. & this is because humanism is the name of the way of conscience which helps you to overcome your alienation from the other and become communis with your peers, however retarded & anti-humanistic they might be.
Imagine not feeling sorry for perishing fascists for the totally degenerate nature of inescapable failure, death, guilt & destruction that was forced on them through their entire unlives. The best treatment you can give to a fash is the death, about which they fantasize allllllll the time. Kill them like mad dogs & they will be happy for the release from their neverending pointless exiPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

Really, it's the entire insurance industry that jacks up health are costs by literally providing no value while maintaining themselves by skimming off the top

uygha I'm not learning politics from tiktok

>>467898
Doctors are greedy capitalist scum. Pill pushing retards. The term doctor wasnt even intended for them as the retards dont do any actual research, theyre just medical technicians. They deserve no prestige or respect as they do it for the $$ and not for society.

Doesnt apply to Cuban docs or docs under communist societies though

>>467898
AMA is literally a mob cartel, they control licensing and artificially red tape the entire medical profession to keep prices high. They literally contribute nothing and still lobby hospitals and research organizations on the regular.

Death to them and all murican doctors

>>467899
sage yourself for being retarded. Doctors under capitalism are cursed, they dont give a shit about anything other than money. Thats why misdiagnosis is like 40% or more and they are virtually immune from being sued for fucking up

I am as "pozzed" as they get, but repaeations are as retarded as if I started demanding reparations from Sweden, Russia and Germany for their historic heinous crimes on my people. Some shit is just too old to matter, and the racism that exists today is too materially distant from historic slavery. But on the other hand, its not like the money would have went anywhere useful, so its overall whatever.

>>467977
You're not the Illumnati, you're just an ordinary fag.
That said the original Illumanti weren't anything special. It was just this Kraut guy who was like any other pissant teenager. That I believe was one of the codewords they used when they wanted to throw common understanding into disarray. For a long time there has been an anti-Masonic movement in America, and the Masons were not so super secretive that they were above criticism. It was generally known who was or wasn't a Mason, and a lot of Masons aren't anything special. By invoking "the Illumanti", which were really just some 18th century edgelords, they're conflating something shady and mysterious with every other thing coded as "conspiracy", and disallowing any analysis of what these conspiracies are. If you get into the weeds of conspiracism though, you will see names and patterns of behavior that are definite. The dominant way people understood politics was the conspiracy, rather than these narratives about the pretenses of the state. This used to be common knowledge, and it became necessary to mystify it when politics was moved behind a curtain and republican institutions were to be replaced with technocratic ones.

>>467981
>technocratic
If you were to dial back the schizophrenic conspiracy theories a tiny bit and apply a materialist analysis, I'd actually agree with the part of technocratic managerialism being the dominant/emergent MoP today.

>>467980
Reparations are something you demand after a war, not as a sop given decades after the fact. Everything I read about serious reparations proposals suggested a transfer of wealth from those who were financial beneficiaries of slavery to the ex-slaves; that is, the slave interest that used to be tied to finance in America. It was the language of people who were contesting the commanding heights of finance, rather than a "gimme" to the slaves.

If we wanted to set a situation right, or make it as good as we could, we would recognize what was done with slavery; but if we did that, we would see immediately the continuation of the slave power up to the present day, and it would be a question that went beyond the racist slavery and racism today. It would attack things which still rule to this day, and that was a bridge too far.

Of course, all of this talk elides what is obvious to us - the republic, or what's left of it, is a grotesque failure, and we have made the concept of either political or social equality impossible in the present society. If you don't have that, any talk about "racial justice" is nonsensical. The oppressor of the ghetto today isn't something in the distant past or some inchoate force that says you're a failure if you look a certain way. If you go to the street and see what daily life is like, and the political machinations at work, people in the ghetto can tell you sources of their woes, the forces supplying drugs and so on. It's not a great secret that crack was seeded in the cities by certain interests - and it came out during Iran-Contra, and subsequently memory holed by the power of Reagan's contagious Alzheimer's.

>>467983
You wouldn't know what is material at this point. I don't even know what you're objection is, except to emotional associations you make and your infantile attachment to Satanic morality. You just want things to be "truthy" and somehow reconcile every analysis with your favored ruling ideas, which happen to protect you. It's selfish and faggotty.

>>466985
I never said that heterosexuality couldn’t be perverted, just not entirely manipulated like homosexuality
>material basis is when you coom
<this retard actually thinks I’m trying to argue that homosexuals don’t exist lol
I agree with the other anon. I have literally never seen an irl example of liberal brain rot before I’m impressed
Read more lib.
>According to the materialist conception of history, the ultimately determining element in history is the production and reproduction of real life. Other than this neither Marx nor I have ever asserted. Hence if somebody twists this into saying that the economic element is the only determining one, he transforms that proposition into a meaningless, abstract, senseless phrase.

>>466990
Homosexuality is not manipulated you moronic homophobe. What do you think the Jews are making people gay? It's all commoditified under capitalism and thus meaningless. Sexuality is just another product to be bought and sold you brainlet your sacred cow of heterosexuality is not special.

You are clearly to stupid to understand what is being said to you so you have to resort to these strawmen and dumb personal attacks o I'll just leave you to beat yourself off over your half baked analysis.

>>466991
Lol

>>466990
Homosexuality is not manipulated you moronic homophobe. What do you think the Jews are making people gay? It's all commoditified under capitalism and thus meaningless. Sexuality is just another product to be bought and sold you brainlet your sacred cow of heterosexuality is not special.

You are clearly to stupid to understand what is being said to you so you have to resort to these strawmen and dumb personal attacks o I'll just leave you to beat yourself off over your half baked analysis.

>>466919
It's literally the main form of Socialism in the Global South…

>>467889
Holy based.

Both parties are that at this point. If you actually encounter the active participants in Republican Party politics, you see some of the grodiest scum of humanity. This is the party of Reagan, after all.

If you're still participating in the farce of American politics at this point, you really aren't getting it.

>>467799
He reeks of Tavistock.

>>467874
I guess it's petty on both sides, nuking the world unless the google-bot says "በꚤርርቺኑ" isn't really top quality decision making either.

>>467878
such pettiness is not unusual for "politics" in current year

>>466328
>And once the wolf cub gets a taste of blood, it's anyone's guess what happens next.
Lol. If it's anything like Athens, then there will be blood. Because that democracy had one peculiar feature, at least when it came to crimes against the state (isangelia) - accuser didn't risk anything, while the accused risked everything (capital punishment).

Many politicians were killed by this method, especially strategoi. At some periods in Athenian history it was basically a suicide mission to be elected as a strategos. Multiple times in Athenian history there were mass executions of strategoi.
Orators didn't fare much better either, as they too were subject to isangelia, and some were killed for "deceiving the demos" when their agitation led to bad results. Orators also had to deal with "graphe paranomon", a suit against proposals in the assembly that are "contrary to the law", where the accuser again didn't risk anything. Funny enough orators enthusiastically used this procedure against each other.

The general rule of Athenian politics was "the demos can never be wrong, and when it is wrong, it is because it was deceived by bad politicians".

>>466747
>capital punishment for heads of state that fuck up
Based beyond belief. Shoulder the responsibility, bear the risk.

>>466753
It's not just about fucking up.
Demos in general didn't like people who were too eager or successful in their political careers. Especially after the oligarchic coup failed and the middle classes got decimated in the Peloponnesian war. Politically ambitious people were viewed as potential tyrants.
Out of all the famous Athenian politicians all ended up either sentenced to death or exiled. The smartest, like Pericles, when they sensed the mood, just laid low out of the public eye. Even Demosthenes was cursing the Demos, while running from a death sentence for his involvement in the Harpal's case.

And that's not even talking about Socrates, who was killed for ideological reasons and was made an example of to others like Plato.
Aristotle also ended up running from a death sentence.

>>466802
>And that's not even talking about Socrates, who was killed for ideological reasons and was made an example of to others like Plato.
Tho to be fair, the Demos didn't intend to kill him per se. Just wanted to humiliate him, to see him beg for his life like all the others, to make him submit publicly.
But the old sophist chose death.

>>466062
>Even Cleisthenes was ostracized.
Correction: this may have actually been a rumor started by a Roman Greekaboo in the 2nd century AD, about 700 years later. There doesn't seem to exist any other source supporting this and there's no evidence from excavated ostraca that Cleisthenes was ever ostracized either.

>>467759
>How the World Works
>maybe someone has the pdf
here you go

>>467787
Is this book really much different than anything written by Dave Harvey or Wolff? Just read a summary and it sounds exactly the same as any other circa 2000 Leftoid Marxoid book you'd find at the Goodwill.

>>467806
I doubt that you can draw conclusions based on comparing book summaries.
I would say that :
Cockshott is the king of brevity, he writes extremely to the point, and manages to pack in a lot more knowledge in a lot fewer pages. On the philosophical scale I would consider Cockshott to be a harder materialist than Harvey or Wolff.

I can't really give you a comparative literature analysis because for that you really have to purposefully read authors side by side and note the points of difference and agreement.

If your intention is to socially discredit Cockshott's book without actually engaging with the contents, then kindly fuck off, i think this is a worthwhile read.

>>467810
No, I'm actually fairly interested in reading it since it gets shilled so hard here. But I'd have to pay to get it imported where I live. Someone should post screenshots of the best passages, since the chance of me reading a book on my phone is practically 0.

>>467812
the only cockshott book worth buying is "towards a new socialism", and it would depend on the price. cockshott gets shilled because he has a computer science / programming background and some crazy ideas, people read him for the entertainment or intellectual value, rather than practical insight. I like his books, but they are like sci-fi novels

if you want a serious materialist analysis of your surroundings, find marxist authors specialized in your region

>>467206
>i would rather see the world subject to nuclear holocaust than live without my leftist fantasy being real
<billions must die
leftist moment

>>467509
Said the "gas the Jews" crowd.

>>467510
What are you talking about

Is there no report button on this board?

>>467510
>anyone who criticizes my insane mass homicidal leftist fantasies is a NAZI
smartest poster on leftychan