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File: 1624564955572.jpg (291.35 KB, 1488x934, dielectrical.jpg)

 No.336051[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Quite a few comments on this video claim that Cockshott is misrepresenting Hegel's work.


Is Cockshott correct, is Hegel just doing intellectual sleight of hand?

The video itself seems to be part of a series responding to comments from his blog where he seems to claim that Dialectical Materialism was invented by social democrats to corrupt Marx's work.

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I hope i'm not messing this up, but here we go with a maximum simplification attempt:
Cockshot says that a program and the output of the program are just two different ways of representing the same information.
Hegel would say that the output of the program contains something more, that wasn't already described by the program code.


Indeed, I think Cockshott implicitly denies the material importance of executing a program to get an output. If the information was "already there", we would not need to run the computation.


>Indeed, I think Cockshott implicitly denies the material importance of executing a program to get an output. If the information was "already there", we would not need to run the computation.
In information theory terms Cockshott absolutely is correct. However that doesn't mean that to you one form of representing the information isn't more useful than another and therefore you use a computer to transform it. Imagine a complicated equation on one side of the equal sign and the calculated result on the other side. There's a reason why nobody has managed to make software based on Hegelian logic, because it contradicts information theory that underpins all computing.


So I have finally taken the time to read this, and I more or less disagree.
>We are bombarded with radiation from space. A single high energy particle, a single quantum event, can induce a fatal mutation in an egg cell meaning that a particular child is not born. A different man in the same place makes different decisions. Under another admiral the 1st Cruiser Squadron intercepts the Goeben before it reaches Constantinople. Turkey stays neutral. Russia supplied via the Dardanelles wins victories in the East. There is no 1917, Russian and Turkish empires survive.

What Cockshott is indirectly talking about is chaos theory, which is the study of systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions. Note that chaotic systems are usually deterministic, but they are epistemologically random, i.e. we rapidly cannot predict the future behaviour of it. A common example is weather: scientists can predict the weather for tomorrow, maybe for the next week (with less precision), but nobody can predict what the weather will be like in 365 days (because of the so-called butterfly effect).
However, we can look at long-term manifestation of weather, it's called climate. And evolution in climate can be predicted quite accurately over long periods of time, that is why we know climate change is happening and will keep happening, and no butterfly flapping its wings will stop it.
Long story short, some phenomenon can be chaotic, but on a larger scale it may exhibit a non-chaotic (or less chaotic) behaviour (as an emergent property).
In particular, I think that the Russian Empire was doomed to collapse in the beginning of the twentieth century, and some random guy not being there may change the details on the exact date and how it happened, but the broad picture stays the same. And it is very naive to think that the neutrality of Turkey during WW1 depended only on one person. There are vast political and social forces that cannot be dismissed so easily.

About Markov chains, I remember a Chomsky interview I cannot find, but his main points are in this link: https://norvig.com/chomsky.html
In particular:
>Statistical language models have had engineering success, but that is irrelevant to science.Post too long. Click here to view the full text.


dialectics isn't an algorithm fool

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tl;dr-I want to argue that rather than the end of neoliberalism, we are witnessing the restructuring in which it will become stronger than before. This is operated by fictitious capital, which should not be seen as an unproductive excess to the real productive capitalist process, but a vital part of its ability to evolve, adapt, and overcome crisis.

First some background on productive and unproductive labor. Let's take the example of a petty commodity producer. Assume that an hour’s labor produces $1 of value. The producer must undertake 4 hours of labor to reproduce their labor-power. That is the value of their labor-power is $4. They actually work for 8 hours, thereby producing $4 of new value, and so producing a surplus value of $4, embodied within a surplus product. So far, this all falls into the realm of productive labor.

But, the producer also has to spend time sending this surplus product to market, to be sold, and thereby to realize the money equivalent of this surplus value. Let us say it takes 2 hours for the producer to take the commodity to market and sell it. That means that the peasant has a cost of $2 in marketing the commodity, time that is taken up not in production, but in the circulation of the capital. This is unproductive labor. In fact, the producer has $2 tied up during this time that is not taking part in production, yet this $2 adds nothing to the value of the commodity.

Now, let's imagine a merchant comes along and buys the $8 of output of the peasant producer, for $7(below its value), but is able to sell this output in just half an hour. The merchant is able to make a profit. They sell the commodity at its value of $8, having paid only $7 for it, and having expended just half an hour $0.50 in selling it. Their realized profit is then equal to $0.50. The profit of the merchant derives not from exploiting the producer, but from the fact that they own enough money to do this, and because they can reduce the selling costs of the producer. This is the basis of finance capital and commercial profits. Finance Capital does not produce additional surplus value, but does increase the mass of realized profit. Not only does it do that, because as above, it frees up the time of the producer to be engaged in production, and thereby creating additional surplus value, it does so, because for industrial capital, iPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
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Also are Shaikh's books any good, I really don't want a light read


>Isn't india a good place to go to? I mean indians are now mostly literate and are similar to what the chinese were like in the early 1990s.
No, India has terrible infrastructure, many places still don't have modern sanitation, they even have problems convincing people to use latrines, because latrines have to be cleaned and that means you become an untouchable Dalit, so many rather have their toilet business in a field. In the places where labor is cheap roads are bad (only small trucks can go and they risk ending up in a ditch) While electricity and modern-ish communication is almost everywhere it's very intermittent. They have a cast system that makes it infinitely complicated to figure out who has to be bribed to make things move and who will just run off with the bribe money. Worker productivity is low because nutrition and health care is bad, many places don't have true fresh water (slightly salty). Sweet water is what they call actual fresh water. Most of the cheap labor that is available still depends on subsistence farming so they will walk off the job when it's time for harvesting. Indian education is also terrible: While they formally have a copy of the British university system which is good, informally degrees are reserved for people with the right caste background. So there's upper-caste people who just barely can recite technical phrases that sound like expert knowledge with fancy degrees while actually technically talented people fix motorbikes in a shed. India never had the kind of modernization that China had, like when Mao banished backwards practices like foot-binding with millions of party cadres going to even the most remote places to teach and enforce modern praxis. If you go to big indian cities these problems are mostly fixed and most things are modern but in those places labor is not cheap.


> because latrines have to be cleaned and that means you become an untouchable Dalit
First believable reason I've heard why the poo in loo thing became a meme.


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Seems like they have improved quite a lot. Also, do you really need people who have a toliet at home to be able to work in a factory? India is already one of the biggest manufacturers in the world.



India is the 6th largest producer of cars.

It seems india is definitely a lot more developed then what you state.

Although i found a source that Indian workers have very bad productivity.



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>poo in loo
vulgar chuckles
shush, don't say that out loud, its very rude

>Also, do you really need people who have a toilet at home to be able to work in a factory?
Yes, good sanitation is not a luxury.
>It seems india is definitely a lot more developed then what you state.
It depends where you go, some places are developed, but if you go where the cheap labor is, this is not so. Cheap labor comes at a price. The highly productive yet cheap labor in China was an unusual case because they had a communist revolution where for many decades all the surplus was diverted in modernizing society.
>i found a source that Indian workers have very bad productivity.
The only good point that it makes is that worker protections are too low, the rest is just unrelated standard neoliberal policy like lowering the corporate tax rate and increasing labor competition (That's their response to every problem, not because it helps anything (it usually makes it worse) , but because that's the policy they want, and problems are just opportunities to get what they want). India probably needs protectionism for internal development, and a decisive government that improves the living conditions of people for their productivity to rise, as well as modernization of social praxis, especially the cast system. Raising Labor productivity needs technological and scientific expansion, and they are shooting them self in the foot because the caste structure is trying to limit science and tech education to Brahmin caste members. It's a simple numbers game, the upper caste is a small number of people and that lowers the pool for technical and scientific talent. India has a huge population and hence the potential to become a technology powerhouse but that potential is squandered.

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/leftypol/ Do you continue to participate in electoral politics in your home country by voting in elections or have you given up on doing that these days?
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Only local ones otherwise i grill


>It was a nothingburger
Lmao no it wasn't, the rampant poverty caused by COVID unemployment is what made Floyd's murder different to the murder of other black men in America.


He clearly was the main culprit, he handled the 2020 crisis like an idiot.


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Sales of Maga-be-gone are through the roof. It is very profitable to be rid of the lumpen-right-wing.
Thanks alt-right grift!

But seriously, nobody likes landlords, nobody believes the theory that Bezos 'earns' millions of dollars a day by honest work more than the idea he exploits his workers into early graves, this latest crap in Texas is universally seen as overreach and Reuters is bemoaning the economic performance of the 4 largest states that all had their governor disgraced in the past year.

This is like nothing I've seen in my lifetime and I watched Reagan 'forget' if he sold weapons to terrorists during an interview after which the former head of the CIA became the next President.



They both will cause the same problems.



They will both cause damage at the same level. The difference between Biden and Trump is they openly broadcast certain views and actions while hiding other views and actions. Let the system run its course with this constant bickering over which brand of neoliberalism is better. It's the conflict that the MSM and bougie create that will be responsible for accelerationism.

Vote to ensure neither party has supremacy in politics. I voted libertarian, dem, republican repeatedly down the ballot.

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what can an introvert/loner do to help the socialist cause?
Before you ask I'm not an incel. pic unrelated.
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Ah, so you somehow believe I lurk that cesspit huh? Why is that, I rarely visit that cesspit, I only go to /pol/ to trigger cappiecucks


Has it? Or is it just a loud minority that builds itself up by putting others down?


>that builds itself up by putting others down?
yes that's probably the case


Kill himself while crying about le cummunists


stop being a effeminate coward

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Introducing the future of food: squareat. TASTE THE FUTURE!

Just for $55 a day you can get your recommended 2500 daily calorie intake.
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This is reletive to they needs of the society as a whole. Good food can also come at the expense our environment which is what we are living through right now. Cultivating crops must be done in an ecologically sound manner.

Prove me wrong.


now that would be peak retardation. I'm pretty sure those are the new lab grown meats. That's why it costs so much. I mean, that would make sense.


>now that would be peak retardation.
Capitalism produced Juicero, don't underestimate them.
>I'm pretty sure those are the new lab grown meats. That's why it costs so much. I mean, that would make sense.
Are you just assuming this ?
Why aren't they making a big deal about having the ability to grow meat without raising animals, that's way more impressive than anything they have shown in their videos.


>>450503 (me)
if you haven't seen the juicero video, enjoy

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This is the Karl Marx appreciation thread, for revolutionizing the field of economics, that to this day causes bourgeois economists to seethe.

To one of the greatest materialist philosophers of all times.
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My daddy works at Karl Marx inc


>Chinese universities
I read an Article that Xi had boosted Marxist education, but it might have been for the military academy and regular schools, but not universities. I might look it up later.


you're completely wrong, marxism is popular among youth in china and it has by far the most universities in the world teaching it


Marx was always right


appreciate the .pdfs

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Here is an introduction to the M.O.N.D. hypotheses which assumes that dark matter does not exist

The "MOND people" are motivated to drop dark matter because it does not have empirical evidence.
No detector has been able to find the dark matter particles even after decades of trying. That means there are no direct measurements and that makes many materialists a bit skeptical, as well as restless to move on to different theoretical models.

This is a riveting tale about gravity, the shape of galaxies and the speed of stars.

What do you think about dark matter ?




Moved to >>>/posad/107.

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I know that this is entirely speculation, however this theory would explain a lot about the US response to COVID that makes no scene without this theory.
As we all know the response to COVID by the American bourgeoisie state was very poor, America has a very high rate of infection and death, the highest of any wealth country, and higher then many third world countries. Why this is, is what I will call the American nonresponse question.
One solution to the American nonresponse question is that not responding the COVID is very beneficial to the American state. As we know COVID 99.9% of the time is very mild to younger people, but often leads to death of older people. Older retired people are a burden on the state and society because they have to have their needs met, yet they (in most cases) are unable to do productive labor. Economically older people are consumers and not producers. Having an older population is a strain on a nation's economy. Understanding this, the American state has perhaps decided that it is in their best interests to let COVID kill their older population to free up resources and labor to boost their economy, labor and resources that would otherwise be used to take care of the old. I understand that this sounds far fetched, however doing this would be in the strategic interests of the American Empire, and the American Empire has historically placed their strategic interests above the ethical and moral systems of the American population.


There are documented cases where young people with asymptomatic illnesses, still got long term organ damage that will render them unable or reduced capacity to work. Some people in the medical field have speculated that 1 in 5 people who got infected will have some kind of long term debilitating effects.

Covid will not rejuvenate society, it probably will have an overall effect of causing productivity loss.

There is a kind of ruling class logic of wishful thinking that making people suffer will somehow lead to better results, people are biological machines, like any machine, operating it outside of recommended parameters will damage it, and then the machine will perform worse.

If the US bourgeoisie purposefully fucked up the covid response, they shot them self in the foot, this wouldn't be amoral strategy it would be stupidity.



That graph is based and everyone should be proud that in a generation we will see population decline. Fuck population growth.


These situations are extremely rare, most young people have a cold and recover quickly, retirement benefits such as Social Security and Medicare are something that Porky hates paying for, so reducing the number of people on theme purpusly is in Porky's self interest


except the vast majority of american porky are old as fuck, especially the government is like an alzheimer's clinic


prokys have good healthcare, and their class is by in large immune to the effects of the pandemic, 90% of the deaths and most of the sever cases are lower class older people with preexisting conditions

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 No.440406[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Why is the far right more censored than the far left in the west? Are we really seen as that little of a threat? Or is this just BS?
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Just read this, none of this is advocating for communism. It makes that pretty explicit at the end.


Because far-right is a genuine existential threat to neolib establishment, while far-left is controlled opposition that ends up agreeing with neolib establishment on everything except for cosmetic shit.


>Thinking that shooting up a church makes you a threat to the state and not the masses whom you’re supposed to be leading


>Because far-right is a genuine existential threat to neolib establishment, while far-left is controlled opposition that ends up agreeing with neolib establishment on everything except for cosmetic shit.
Reverse this. The far-right, when broken down to the fundamentals, is not threat to capitalism itself nor the dominant capitalists in society, while the far-left, for all it's hang-ups, diagrees with neoliberals on everything that counts. 99% of the issues the modern far right kvetches about is just cosmetics, and if the thin aesthetic veneer of the capitalist system we live in was changed to appear more "traditional", with the vast majority would have no problems with it. The actual problem most of the far right has is their perception that the bourgeoisie aren't pandering to them or the things they like anymore, that its "Progressive™" instead of "Trade™". That its a 2020 Macy's catalog with a gay couple on the cover instead of a 1950s Macy's catalog with a white picket fence and a straight couple.



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What are your thoughts on this? Is this the cornerstone BS that people buy and believe into the propagandic myth of "freedom" under capitalism?

>Just stop being poor and start a business and become rich bro! Just work hard and save pennies

Are people successful at it because they actually have something worthwhile to sell, or they just have enough money to throw at it until it becomes successful?
15 posts omitted. Click reply to view.


surplus in feudalism wasn't extracted by money circulation, lords just collected taxes in the form of grain or peasants having to work the plot of land that the lords owned. In addition to the plot of land they worked for subsistence

The soviets didn't have a financial circuit, how do you describe planning for the production of capital goods, in a way that isn't self expanding machine capital


Yes and no. That period is ever since capitalism became a thing, essentially, the past 300 years. Spend thrifting and all that shit has been ruling bourgeois ideas from the start, and there is a modicum or truth in it like all ideas. The difference here is that that modicum of truth has been made into something purely abstract, an ideal scenario where if anyone saves their money they’ll get rich. Problem is that saving money is more difficult than it sounds, and you can’t nearly save the money you need to invest to get rich, especially because of the whims of the market. Here’s a capitalist contradiction amongst their ideologists:

Save money and invest, free market(competition) is best. Now you have a contradiction, on the one hand you attempt to save money to invest, yet the market forces or the invisible hand are whims that you have to accept which means it’s a competitive saving and reliant on luck. Not only that but when the markets hit a snag you’re fucked because you’ll have to use your savings to pay for things you can’t pay for when you’re unemployed or wages can’t pay for higher cost of living. In any case the market isn’t this homogeneous thing where it stays the same and that anyone can just jump in and get rich off their own hard work, essentially the myth of meritocracy.


What did the feudal lords get from having so many grains?

People traded grains for items in feudalism?


No, they got to eat and redistributed some of that grain down to the nobility to keep loyalty.


Most of the "entrepreneurs" in that shit show are already small or medium size businesses

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