/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>485792
>>485793
As a matter of fact, I'd say it goes well beyond the typical expectation of something unable to provide direct sources, providing considerable write-ups about the methods, results, and conclusions of each individual study. Not only is any greater expectation an unreasonable critique of any professional review, but it's also still not an argument against the sources themselves. If anon has a dispute with the methodology or findings of these studies, they should present their case. Perhaps they'd even like to assert that the sources are being misrepresented, or that there are more, higher quality studies demonstrating the opposite conclusion. Many arguments are possible, but attacking the messenger is not one of them.

>>485793
>Every one of them has a clear description with abstract and a link.

okay, so you've actually gone and read them all right?

>>485793
No they don't he's just a lying fag.

The studies in question have been refuted for decades. The sample sizes where people were found to be sick from floride injestion were 2 - 3x the normal intake of floride in the water supply. Then these charlatan like rfk said "ah ha! that is how i'll make money scaring the population by claiming this quack study says floride causes cancer!" You are a fucking retard.

>>485814
>The studies in question have been refuted for decades.
Half of these studies aren't even a decade old.

>2 - 3x the normal intake of floride in the water supply.
Finally a point with some substance to engage with. While it's true this is the nature of design for most of these studies (it would be unethical to expose people deliberately to various levels of a neurotoxin just to cover the entire spectrum), neurotoxins usually don't have a "safe level" where nothing happens–it just becomes harder to detect the effect. Because fluoride accumulates in the body in various places over time (much like lead), it's reasonable to assume a cumulative effect on developmental impairments. It's important to note that even naturally occurring fluoride in some water sources can be higher than the typically additive fluoridation level. Finally, keep in mind that tap water fluoride isn't the only source of exposure.

The U.S. National Toxicology Program commissioned a 7-year systematic review on fluoride neurotoxicity that came to a similar conclusion:
<This review finds, with moderate confidence, that higher estimated fluoride exposures (e.g., as in approximations of exposure such as drinking water fluoride concentrations that exceed the World Health Organization Guidelines for Drinking-water Quality of 1.5 mg/L of fluoride) are consistently associated with lower autism score in children. The moderate confidence in the inverse association between fluoride exposure and children’s autism score is based primarily on studies with estimated fluoride exposures higher than what is generally associated with consumption of optimally fluoridated water in the United States. Associations between lower total fluoride exposure [e.g., as in approximations of exposure such as drinking water fluoride concentrations that were lower than the WHO Guidelines for Drinking-water Quality of 1.5 mg/L of fluoride (WHO 2017)] and children’s autism score remain unclear. However, because people receive fluoride from multiple sources (not just drinking water), individuals living in areas with optimally fluoridated water can have total fluoride exposures higher than the concentration of their drinking water. In addition, there are people living in the United States who liPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>485715
It seems like you're deliberately misreading my post out of some emotional, identarian attachment to a word. That's fine but you should really try to understand that terminology in biology (or any other hard science) is about removing emotions and subjectivity, in order to describe an aspect of the natural world in the most precise and consistent way possible. Precise and consistent language is key in exchanging ideas and testing hypotheses. In biology we do not use intersex to refer to disorders of sexual development, we use it to refer to a widespread aspect of a species' biology that exists because natural selection deemed it to have some kind of fitness advantage.

>>485716
You're literally just making a delusional semantic argument based on a fantasy idea of biology.

Nothing I say is identitarian; I'm dealing in the objective facts, and that is that this has been the terminology for longer than there's been any kind of retarded "debate" around it. You are basing your disingenuous argument in an ahistorical lie, which is so steeped in contemporary culture war nonsense that you literally refuse to process any fact which contradicts it.

>In biology we do not use intersex to refer to disorders of sexual development,
And yet it's used that way in medicine, and it has been used that way in medicine for longer than you've been alive. Even if your claim that it's not used that way in human biology was correct (and your claim is clearly not), you are in no position whatsoever to lecture anyone about terminology when another hard science, which applies to human medical conditions rather than those of other species (and the author of this thread was, importantly, a human) uses it in the way you claim it isn't used.

>natural selection deemed it to have some kind of fitness advantage.
This also isn't how natural selection works. This is remarkably spooked language coming from someone claiming to be a "biologist" when the reality is that evolution proceeds as incremental mutations which only gradually lead to broadly shared traits. There is no way whatsoever of deciding definitively in a single lifetime whether certain mutations in a species have a functional purpose, and to the contrary we see intersex conditions appearing in the human race over and over again for the entire course of human history. There is no sentient natural selection to appeal to here - it is a largely random force which only makes sense when looked at as a historical process, and if you try to establish that it ""deems"" anything to be a fitness advantage, you'll find that it regularly replicates traits which you yourself would try to define rigidly as disorders. It's magical thinking to assume that evolution, in spite of all evidence, can always be separated neatly into disorders vs. a normal orderly course of progress. Natural selection isn't some guy who decides what stays or goes, it's a process defined after-the-fact by humans observing traits shaped by centPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>485717
>and it has been used that way in medicine for longer than you've been alive
And it has been used in the study of arthropods in a much clearer defined way for an order of magnitude longer than that. Sociology is a very recent appropriation of the term. I find it especially hilarious that you tried to support your case with a Wikipedia link, when right in the very article they direct you to an alternate article, "Intersex (biology)", in clear acknowledgement that it's a distinct concept in biology. Even Wikipedians agree that it needs to have a separate article to delineate it from your imprecise co-opting of the term in sociology.

>pseudointellectual screed about evolution
Seems we've hit on an insecurity here. There are in fact many ways to establish the selective advantage of a given trait in a population, especially where it occurs in large numbers and you can measure it across generations (unlike for example exceptionally rare disorders found in human populations). Another fun fact about intersex conditions in animal populations: unlike humans with disorders of sexual development, the animals presenting intersex traits are generally not sterile. That is how they persist across generations.

>How did genderism and transgenders become associated with and straight up completely dominate the left?
1: Western Leftist isn't based on Materialism, but is very much an "outcast" counter-culture that ranks heiarchy based on "oppression". This means leftist spaces find it near impossble to gatekeep against crazies, if those crazies check certain oppression boxes. This is easily manipulated by malicious power hungry types, for decades the black and muslim community who would use the left for their own idpol agendas then stab the left immediately in the back the moment they sniffed power or money, now it's the LGBT community.
2: Modern LGBT movement is essentially Narcissism the movement, and 98% of Transgenderism is viciously Narcissistic Cluster B fuelled AGP and extremely thin skinned autists who think playing a girl is life on "easy mode". Being terminally online, while also pushing all the right oppression boxes, and being experts in tumblr woo academia woke speak and manipulation of statistics and victim narrative, Troons literally took over the entire online left, completely silenced and purged anyone who even just dared questioned their clearly horseshit, delusional claims and mass gaslighting. I mean, look at the "Trans genocide" claims and then realise, Trans people literally have some of the lowest rates of abuse, hate crimes or crime against them of any demographic. Troons a near equal to Zionists in the sheer ability to crybully and spout memorized hasbara horseshit.
This also flows into real life orgs due to number 1, throw on the fact that LGBT today is also the compelte Vanguard force of modern Liberalism and most Western leftists are shitlibs, this means nobody can really stand against them.
To understand how absolutely pathetically dogshit troons are at debating, look at this Trans rights activist just completely fall apart from being asked basic questions and some light pushback against their questionable logic
https://x.com/DouglasSpaeder/status/1852414050145292795
This is why Troonies always scream "TERF" and try ban literally anyone who even dares question some of their logic, because there really is no material coherent basis. It's completely incoherent horseshit and literally based on metaphysical feels.

>>485715
> I was probably reading the ISNA's site before you were even born,


people often learn about things years after it happens.
People can be ignoranr of phenomenom or terms that have been around since their prime.

Chances are, the peron youre arguing with could be as old or older.

>>484158
Called it

>>485693
She didn't get more votes tho.

>>485694
Election was rigged

>>485694
True.
I actually underestimated how much of a world historic loser campaign Harris was running. People are calling it the worst campaign of all time. It's a disaster, folks!

>>485719
yeah it was deff one of the worst./
>The kids are deff feeling liz chenny

>>485663
>Read Fascist theorists, it absolutely is an ideology with it's own tenants and theory, no different from Marxist Leninism or Neoliberalism.
I tried that, you know as a exercise in know-your-enemy. And it's not coherent enough to be a theory or an ideological worldview.
Let me give some insights into aspects of fascist "theories".

One winter day some Nazi forgot to put coal into the oven that heats the water and took an especially cold shower, But he felt strangely invigorated, because exposure to cold jumps up the metabolic rate to heat the body back up. That also creates a natural high that feels really good. Many cultures in cold regions figured out the up-sides of dipping in ice-cold water, usually followed by a sauna session. However the fascists turned that experience into Aryans are special Ice-people with a hole origin story, alternate geological history and physics. They're not the first to make up mythology out of mundane shit like cold. But you can't call stuff like that a theory.

>Its a ideology of Traditionalist futurism
Italian fascism (Musolini type) borrowed the aesthetics and slogans of the futurists, but they didn't pursue any of the goals the futurists had.
>and nationalist social organism.
This is just word salad, let me explain:

First the shape of an organism at the most basic is an enclosed body, nations would be like an exploded carcass that splattered it guts all over the place, but it remains alive because little ants interconnect the dispersed organs.

Social organization in all forms do not mimic biology. Biology is a mad free for all where everything expands along metabolic pathways with random cross-connects. Imagine biology inspired social organization to be like the mail-man breaking into your house to deliver the mail, steal your coffee and clip the toe nails of your dog, clean your toilet and then take a shit in your bathtub. Biology works but it's chaotic as hell.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

Literally no one on the internet gets fascism right in its meaning, despite a wealth of historical information and writing from the fascists themselves about what they did and intend to do. It's funny that in all of the discussion the obvious - look at what the horse's mouth is saying - is ignored. Fascist organizations aren't difficult to miss and they will tell you they want to kill all of the communists and socialists and democrats in the world as a start, and give you their reasons why. The cowardliness of the left is so conditioned into them that they defeat themselves and they're the only ones who have doubts about what fascism is. Whether anyone else cares about stopping fascists is another question altogether.

If you're looking for fascism as a stable political idea, Futurism and Nietzschean moral "thought" are the obvious indicia. The fascists wrote considerably about the origin of their movement in syndicalism, the origin of the Blackshirts in Italy, and what is known about Mussolini's history (since he spoke English and was for a time a well-regarded and "normal" world leader). The Nazi Party has been described by god knows how many sources and by neo-Nazis who never left "the real movement". Fascism is not so specific that it is a fantastical unicorn, but the first people to lie about fascism are the post-1945 revisionist slime like Eco (worked for the fascists, sickening that this asshole is promoted as an anti-fascist). Then if you really know what Gramsci was, he was basically saying fascism or something like it was how the revolution would happen - a coup of the state and corruption of its institutions. They were abandoning mass politics because they saw in the 1920s that no longer worked for their aims, evidence being the first world war and all that followed. More and more, the communists were divorced from any democratic interpretation of "communism", and really doubted anything we would consider "communist" that the USSR aspired to be. The communists were all for the institutions now, and to hell with the now-worthless masses, us "sacks of potatoes".

The corporatist obsession was more of a post-war retrenchment of Germanic essentialism and the core Nazi spiritual principles. The analogy of the body and corporation was used by the fascists, but this is not unique to fascism. Communism doubted the corporate state but the "party of new type" was effectively "Communism Inc." Political elitism, which posited the political ePost too long. Click here to view the full text.

One thing I try to tell people is that we're not getting "fascism" as such. We're getting full eugenism, and that leads to a novel situation that no political ideology or "system" adequately describes. But, fascism still very much exists and informs far more thought than we're "allowed" to acknowledge. The "cultured fascist" artfully denies their link to Nazi atrocities but upholds the thinking of the German ideology, and to fascist conceptions of the technocratic polity as their preferred, "efficient" model. The thing we're getting is very much endorsed by those who would be fascists in that time, in the same spirit and for the same purpose. What has changed is that what the fascist wanted to do with fascism is now the only idea - "there is no alternative" is precisely this. They don't "need" fascism or a particular projection for some ill-conceived ulterior motive or because the rulers have a fetish for it and don't know what they're doing. What we're getting is fascism for the poor and a type of socialism for the rich. The "national socialist" stage of history is gone forever, but "national socialism" was neither national nor socialist. Nazism or the slop that was "national socialism" was about cannibalizing the nation and selling it off, and that's all the Germans did from 1933 to 1945. There are arguments from fascists about whether Germany was "fascist" at all, since the Nazis continued the German State of before with little interruption. Germans despised democracy to their core and mocked the idea, and were told how much stronger they are than weak and gay democracy. Fascism does not have a monopoly on anti-democratic impulses, and while no interpretation of fascism was democratic in the sense that we would consider worthwhile, it regarded a "democratic" basis that was subsumed within the state. The interests of the state and its office-holders were to become the interests of the masses, and there was not explicitly anything forbidding a low rank scumbag from becoming a fascist, as long as he remembered what it was for and that he's there to become an elite himself. What was forbidden was any sense of political equality or legal rights, and look at where we are today in the liberal order of things in the 21st century. In our time, freedom is now "freedumb" and the concept is now "fake and gay".

>>485669
Good post, decently organized, makes clear points and is easy to read.

>>485670
>>485673
Unhinged wall of text by someone with an inflated ego.

>>485678
You and you mother are whores.

>>485607
First of all in my opinion Reddit is the worst website on the internet. My account there is 14 years old at this point and idk if that site was ever good but I certainly had fun there when I first joined. But as the feds and their shill bots and content administrators took over it became clear that the website has one basic strategy: to make you believe that everyone thinks a certain way or believes a certain thing (usually some sort of state department line, like siding with Ukraine and Russia/China bad). The job is to firmly set the goalposts for what is acceptable to think. Anything within that can be endlessly debated. Anything outside is completely ignored, deleted or down-voted to the bottom.

Reddit accomplishes this by creating the illusion that there is a consensus of opinions where there isn't by using shill accounts to spread their message in the comments, using bots to upvote their message and anyone supporting it, and also tactfully creating relevant-looking content that is really propaganda and putting into every popular subreddit, even irrelevant meme ones. The problem is they try to make it look organic and unless you were on the website before this was thought of or technologically possible, you might not actually understand the scale of it: on any contentious issue, you can safely assume that there are no real posters in the comments. It's dead internet.

Anyways I'm saying all of this to you OP because what you saw might be just that: feds gaslighting you into thinking that millenials hate genz, and creating yet another divide in the population.

But the smug liberal type that sides with the current establishment and the neoliberal capitalist system as a whole certainly exists in real life too. There are people who are really snakes that talk about progressive issues but do not want any real change. In fact they actively wreck movements and at the very least stand by and watch the government commit atrocities without lifting a finger against it all while claiming to care about people of color, women and lgbtq people.

There are people that are gaslighting arabs saying "we supported you on the gaza issue and you didn't vote for the democrats, now i hope gaza burns to the ground". These are the same people that say they want to help black people but do not actually think of them as equal human beings.Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>485617
>Dude, cringe tribalism you partook in as an adolescent isn't an identity, it's an anecdote.

Not everything is cringey teenage fads though.

>Seriously he can be an adult and a skater wear shoes that have wheels. That's perfectly fine. Don't sour his hobby by making up belittlement-words.

Stop fwisting my words. Adults being skaters hasnothing to do with wgat Im saing.
Im saying that the cringey shit we accuse teens of doing was created and promoted by adults

>>485618
Shilkbots may be a aprt of it, vut this feels genuinely organic even if its brainwashed.

Alot of the hatred for Gen Z on Reddit is the same nasty contempt that I see on other site, especialy imageboard.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>485621
Reddit is just very, very hateful. More so than 4chan. Just keep that in mind.

>>485622
Nah. Reddit for all its faults couldnt touch 4chan in toxicity.

But both sites are obnoxiously self-isolative and harbor main character syndrome for the Millennial persuasion.
Both sites were made by Millennials, after all.

Both the SJWs and alt-right are Millennial/Gen X shenanigans that went too far.

Reddit is over-promoting the "brain development" theory as a infantilising put down against teenagers

There's posts claiming teens cannot do any research or have political preference etc

Progressives preach about equality but deny it to the ones who need it most: young people.


Irony is the same paternalistic contempt they show the young is the exact same that reactionaries use to punish young people for being progressive.

And the usual whining about muh TikTok from both sides yet Millennials also use it

>>485575
Stein is well over 700k now, and that's not counting write-ins in new york

Can't believe hundreds of thousands of Kennedycucks voted for that grifter after he ended his campaign and bowed out of the election like a good boy.

>>485587
He was rewarded too with a cabinet position on the fucking FDA

>>485579
>Are you saying he wasn't insane enough for the anarcho-capitards in the party?
He supported lockdowns, mask mandates, vax mandates, carbon tax, open borders, transitioning children and everybody who disagrees with him is a racist bigot transphobe nazi. He's basically a mainstream liberal who read an economics book.

>>485593
>He was rewarded too with a cabinet position on the fucking FDA
Isn't that a good thing? Somebody will start holding these amoral profit maximizing corporations accountable instead of just rubber stamping their sketchy drugs.

>>485602
That's interesting, I didn't get a sense of any of that stuff during debates.

>>471154
still don't really believe that everyone was on it, but i guess that's really hard to even prove. i would have mostly seen true believers at the time but i also grew up in a sheltered environment. although, i've even seen true believers of the ukraine narrative.

>It is a necessity of the fake left to believe nothing ever changes until their thought leaders have declared it so, and it only changes as needed. That is why the left is arrested in time, always religating the past. Anyone operating in the 21st century is purged and silenced. So eugenics marches on…
agree with this though.

>>471159
The propaganda works well on those who were children or young teens at the time of the Iraq War. Those old enough to fight in it knew it was bullshit. Literally no one bought the "we were in danger" story, and you were allowed to say Bush's story was full of shit. It was encouraged.
Why was that? Because mass support didn't matter, and the sense that democracy didn't matter was more valuable than any popular support for the present war. Fear and terror created an impression worth more for them than love.

>>471162
Idk about that

>>470041
It's entirely about crazy "transbians" who were taught to hate men, so the only way out is to larp as a woman. Once they realize That is why it is worded in such a stupid way. These people are not real trans women, they just see it as a way to get out of their supposed male privilege. Real trans people don't even want others to know they are trans, they want to look like the opposite sex they were born as close as possible. All transbians and these lunatics who believe we should have dozens if not hundreds of genders have only damaged the image of actual trans people. Trans people don't want a spotlight, they just want to take their hormones and get their surgeries in peace so they can pass as the opposite sex they were born as and not be treated any differently than cis people. Generally speaking if you've never seriously thought about getting bottom surgery as a trans person, I don't think you are trans.
>>470044
You are right. They are the enemy and its not just about trans issues. It's them having enormous privileges over men. They win the vast majority of custody battles (even though the crime rate for children under single moms vs single dads is astronomically higher), men still have to pay for child support even if they have 50% custody of the child, women can get an abortion without the consent of the father but the father can't have a financial abortion if she wants to keep the child, married women who divorce always gain from it because they always marry up in the socioeconomic ladder and never down (so 50/50 wealth split just fucks over the man), and to top it off women are going after men with cohabitation laws so even if they aren't married, she can steal his shit if they break up. I mean, I could keep going but that's the jist of it. Cis women are entitled sacks of shit who want the world but do not want to do the work. They offer nothing to the man and expect so much from them. Which is exactly why I want to marry a trans woman who either has bottom surgery or wants it (I'd actually help pay for it if I loved her enough).

>>470041
Gender Dysphoria is an incredibly rare disorder, we're talking like, probably 1 in 100,000 level disorder. What has happened is that after the win of Gay Marraige, the Gay NGO sector needed to whip up a new cause to justify their existence (and billions in funding) and started massively pushing Transgenderism. This paired with around the same time Millennial Tumblrites finally graduating University and entering middle management jobs, created massive Trans Zeitgeist that now exists.
The vast majority of Trans people, I would say well over 99%, do not have Gender Dysphoria, but have several other disorders, namely, Borderline Personality Disorder, Autism and Disordered Autogynophelia.
BPD is Unstable Narcissistic Sociopathy where the Narcissist has an incredibly unstable and dysphoric personality and sense of self. This leads to constant identity shifting and various dysphorias. The strong Narcissistic and Sociopathic elements of BPD, also mean that BPD's will generally always engage in massive amounts of gaslighting, emotional and social manipulation, and virtuous Victimhood. An inability to form a true self identity or see ones self means BPDs are also vulnerable to "pop" disorders and dysphoria. (in fact, the view of DID by a large portion of psychologists and psychs is just aspect of BPD made up by Borderlines themselves)
Autism is Autism, everyone knows this, a lesser known aspect of Autism is often body dysphoria. Autists often feel uncomfortable in their own bodies and disconnected from reality. This makes them vulnerable to "pop" dysphoric conditions.
Autogynophelia are coomers who view Women as lesser beings, and have a humiliation fetish, so the ultimate pleasure is being seen as a woman. This is why a huge portion of Troonies are Lolitas or engage in Bimbofication. (Troonies try to pretend this is just them making up for "lost time", but it's a lie, it's AGP based degredation).
Why is this an issue for the left? Having a bunch of Narcissistic, control freak delusional sociopaths in power, who literally demand you accept their delusions and contradictory, incoherent metaphysical anti-materialist woo or you are a fascist is already as huge issue as we've seen Troonies literally colonize almost every leftist space in the West, both online and IRL, and then engage in massive gaslighting campaigns, virtue signalling, purges Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

Is this gonna be one of those real rallies or one of those fed rallies organized to favor wreckers?

>>485546
I can't find anything about this. Is this something you came up with?

>>485478
Is there data from 2020 onwards?

>>485501
There is but I've had a hard time finding it in graph form like this.

>>485476
>I mean, any popular vote victory by definition requires a larger portion of the working class to vote for you than for your opposition.

Saddam Hussein would win "elections" with 99% of the vote. Election results have more to do with the choices available than support per se, especially when Trump consistently polls at incredibly low levels of popularity.

>>485508
>Trump consistently polls at incredibly low levels of popularity.
Oh really, the media that has been hysterically anti-Trump for the past 8 years told you that the guy they hate more than Hitler is polling badly? Well they have no reason to lie.

Actually existing pure ideology

>>480674
I watched all four Matrix movies.

People do treat the Matrix metaphor as a more literal thing than anything.

>>477627
Why did musk buy twitter? Because the smart people he has employed advised him to do so.

>>477627
>Basically what I'm asking is do they have ideology of their own that they are unconsciously committed to, or are they blatantly just lying when they talk about things like creating jobs?


As a class they have class consciousness and powerful organizational structures in place to maintain their power. As individuals they are often retarded and out of touch even with the scope of their own power. Some of them really do believe they're job creators and not job gatekeepers. Some of them really do believe they should earn a billion dollars per second for "taking the risk" of owning the legal titles to stuff that other people manage and labor upon for them.

>>484984
I'm increasingly believing that this is the case. That they act in their class interests because of their material conditions, but on an individual level they're not smart enough to really see themselves for what they are: instead they genuinely believe that they're the good guys and deserve their position.

>>477627
>how red pilled are the rich
only instrumentalists believe in ruling ideology/systems. The reality is that they live in tiny bubbles being flung around by the iron laws of capitalism. some are smart some are insanely stupid. The vast majority tho, are extremely incompetent given the fact they have no command over capitalism.