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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Racial identity categories have no biological merit, so the thread-subject line is objectively correct.
The hard materialist line isabolishing race identities as false consciousness in favor of class unity.
Is this politically doable ? Could this gain traction among the masses ?

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>not clicking that
>I agree with the basic premise.

very peculiar



Yeah, race is a charade & I'm not clicking.


Race is not a "thing" or "substance" you can isolate in a lab, but a question of heredity - basically asking "who your ancestors are" in a general enough sense that is understandable. We have a sense of what races are and who is in what race, but it only became relevant because eugenics became the political idea. The idea of "race rule" was absurd to even the screaming racists of the 19th century. It took eugenics to make that idea acceptable as a pseudoscience.

Maybe some day we wouldn't kill each other over stupid shit. There was a strange time in America where we thought that would happen. No such luck. Today's racism is thoroughly a proxy for eugenics generally, rather than mere "identity". The white racists can't even say what they really think with a straight face, because it's such a laughable claim about nature. It's intended for the petty-manager slaves who want to kick down someone, and when they don't have an identity ready for them to kick down, they find some other trait to justify their shitty behavior. None of it is based on anything but a crass greed, and that is intended. The true aristocracy are far more racist than anything that comes out of the mouth of a Reaganite bullycoward retard, and they are retarded. Listen to a liberal in the political elite talk about Africa and you can see hatred that would make Hitler blush, despite the lack of anything the Africans did except exist and want something for themselves. It's really absurd, but all of it comes back to a eugenic interest overtaking anything else. The Reaganites are their enablers, encouraged to be as stupid and venal as possible, then abase themselves and indulge in cuckold porn because they're the most worthless men and women, whose contribution to humanity is nothing but cheap and abundant torture and misery. The actually capable racists are the true danger. Without their hand, the Reaganites would be exposed as the fags they are and put down, and we wouldn't have to hear their retardation ever again.


Race is a charade but I don't understand anything else you said and I won't click some youtube link unless you give me a reason to.


The video is from the Katie Halper show (lefty independent media with cerebral comedy and political commentary) , and there are 2 Marxists ( Pascal Robert & Jason Myles) explaining how capitalism uses identity politics. It's just shy of 5 minutes short.


Here's a video from The Grayzone about:
<the USAID's DC rollout of the dystopian Diia "state in a smartphone".
It seems as if Ukraine might be something like a test laboratory for this kind of stuff.

Another name for this is the "4th industrial revolution" How this is related to industrialism or why they counted to N°4 already that escapes me. In my mind the industrial revolution started with the steam-engine, the lathe, the printing press, the telegram, chemical fertilizers, … It keeps going and improving until the 70s when neoliberalism begins the ongoing process of de-industrialization.

Cockshot might have called it the Monarchist Revanche
hence the thread title.

I think that what's going on is the digitization of bureaucracy. I think that the neo-liberals are indeed intending to this to become a total control mechanism, that keeps everyone on a leash, a bit like what absolute monarchies were striving towards.

I do not think that this will kill off cash for example. Governments might abandon cash in the form that you can pay taxes with it, or that you can convert your bank-account money into it without extra steps, but that won't stop people from minting coins or paper-notes. Meat-space is still available and that won't ever change. I also think that this will not stop money laundering or tax evasion, because in the last 200 years the state apparatus always had the ability to crush the mafia, it just doesn't want to. (Relatively weak socialist states with nothing but paper-forms and couriers were able to get rid of the mafia.)

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>that won't stop people from minting coins or paper-notes
Which is completely irrelevant because that's not how money works. The stability of a currency is established by a state's ability to compel people to pay their taxes in the form of that currency. Funbux made by anyone else are simply commodities to be speculated upon.


>Which is completely irrelevant because that's not how money works. The stability of a currency is established by a state's ability to compel people to pay their taxes in the form of that currency. Funbux made by anyone else are simply commodities to be speculated upon.
Lol of course you can't make your own fiat currency.

It's still possible to create commodity money, that can be precious metals, but they can also be based on a basket of normal commodities, a little bit like those supermarket gift-certificates. At present hardly anybody is interested in these and they hardly exist, let alone circulate. The reason for that is that government fiat currency is easier to use and has no drawbacks compared to commodity money. However if what many fear or anticipate comes true and those digital currencies get used for political repression, then commodity money will gain an advantage of bypassing those risks. You can't say this isn't a valid concern, in recent international conflicts access-denial to financial-transaction-systems has been wielded as a weapon. Whether this will also be used against smaller targets like organizations or individuals, that's unclear at the moment.

You do raise a valid concern about the stability, precious metals are currently suffering from exchange value fluctuations that are significant enough to make it hard to use as a currency, mostly do to speculation. Commodity money that is derived off a large enough goods-basket should remain usable though. I'm not pulling this out of my ass, during the early period of the 20th century when there were a lot of problems with fiat currencies, like severe inflation for example. A lot of people began experimenting with various commodity money schemes. This is largely forgotten history at this point but there is no reason to think this phenomenon won't come back if material conditions for it arise.


i won't comment on this but this is what ussr invented (ussr invented ipad !)

just like brazilians invented aeroplane


>dystopian "state in a smartphone"
dengbros… I don't feel so good..


You're not entirely wrong to point this out.

However in China it's not really the state in a smartphone, it's the party in a smartphone. The Chinese state is very much a paper-machine. Party membership is mostly optional. Only the military and a few security related branches of government require party membership. party membership also might be an unofficial requirement for certain strategic sectors in the economy

Ironically enough if you want to do the American Yeoman rugged individual lifestyle about being a farmer that lives off grid while generating produce for cash, that's very easy in China because the state will even subsidize that, as long as it's a cooperative or family business.

That said China is pretty terrible on tech rights too, if you're a non-tech savy person buying the default-config tech gadgets, those have atrociously malicious anti-user features just like in the west. China also has tech illiterate politicians making stupid laws too, they even tried to ban ad-blockers. That said in the Chinese legal system laws are much more temporary. Rules are considered experiments and if people hate it, shit gets overturned very easily. So once the generation of people who grew up with technology enter the political system it's likely going to improve alot. In the west laws are like bricks in a castle-wall, fixing shit is very difficult and takes ages. If you had asked me 5 years ago of what civilization would win the race of making user respecting (satisfying the Richard Stallman standard of ethics) technology the default, i would have guessed that either Europe or the US would win, but with recent developments i'm not sure about that anymore.

China is also an ML system, so as long as you don't criticize the government too much, pretty much anything goes, which might sound unfree on the face of it, but considering where the west is headed, that might end up being less oppressive. Keep in mind that right now people in Germany are being prosecuted for having the wrong opinion on the Ukraine war.

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This is the city council public comment part of the cop city bullshit.
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So we also need a method of evaluating what factors lead people towards honest vs tactical voting

>distance-based voter-candidate "utility"
Sounds like this is the more generalized metric

>Sortition would naturally produce governing politics near the population

Sure but most people don't grasp statistical effects. Explaining why randomized statistically representative sampling is a really robust method, where all avenues for inserting bias have been beaten out, is really hard. Producing all those comparisons with electoral system might be necessary. I would even go as far as stating that we'd have to run an electoral and sortition system in parallel until we can prove by example that these statistical effects are real.


>The increase in "complexity" doesn't seem that significant to me, though - I mean, it's not a difficult concept to understand. How dumb are voters supposed to be?
It's not about people being dumb it's about how much mental resources you require people to spend. If you can get good results with less brain juice, you leave more brain juice for other cognitive activities.

>Except for approval voting, these all just appear to be other forms of ranked choice. This seems like splitting hairs, frankly, especially when I said "ranked choice" and not "instant runoff" specifically.

Fair enough but consider that the main point was about focusing attention on having a bearable worst case scenario.


Sure, corrupting a randomized selection process or the random subjects it picks, that will be very rare. Sortition probably makes it quite impossible to make corruption into a self-reproducing system.

That said it would not be hard to make election promises binding contracts. Enforcing contracts certainly is weaker than the structural anti-corruption tendencies in sortition. However it should be possible to improve the accountability for politicians upholding their election promises.

I guess if you have the option to implement a new political structure, go with sortition, but if you can't, apply as many bug-fixes as you can to the old one.


>Explaining why randomized statistically representative sampling is a really robust method, where all avenues for inserting bias have been beaten out, is really hard.
Is it really, though? The ancient Greeks understood this at least two millennia before the Law of Large Numbers was proven mathematically.


Not sure how to reply to this.
Ancient Greek was also one of the few instances of sortition democracy that we know off. If it was easy to spread this concept why wasn't it implemented more often ?

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What do you anons think about the concept of "hate"? How do you conceptualize it? Is it in the form of racism, or what? Is it in the form of canards?

I would like to see your responses to a very hot subject over the past few years.
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genuine hate is based
that's one of the reasons why I like imageboards - people there can hate genuinely

obviously hate is relative to the social, and ergo ideological, position of the person who is doing "the hating", but the hate by itself, as an emotion in the abstract, is immensely based

that's why I hate heh anything other than imageboards - you are not allowed to hate genuinely, to hate honestly and openly

mind you, hate is still there, you can't just "ban" it, but it is distorted in grotesque ugly forms

to take a pure emotion and mutilate it so, to make a mockery out of it.. I HATE fucking jannoids


as to fascism and nationalism in general, it is not a genuine hate, and that's my main problem with it

I don't buy your so-called """hate""", nazoids
you hate something, alright, everyone hates something, but I can fucking SMELL dishonesty in your proclamations of hate

That's where I think marxists are on point - the class hate, the social hate, the ECONOMIC hate is the true basis of every nazoid hate


>That's where I think marxists are on point
tho as history has shown again, self-proclaimed marxoids are themselves frequently nazoids

ironically, I don't buy into their proclamations of class hate, mainly because they are frequently of an upper class background

it's a kind of double inversion: self-proclaimed nazoids bullshintting me that their hate is not class hate, and self-proclaimed marxoids bullshintting me that their hate is class hate lol

marxoid hate looks more like an intra-class hate to me, I remember Rosa mentioned this in relation to the SPD politics somewhere


>I don't buy your so-called """hate""", nazoids
you hate something, alright, everyone hates something, but I can fucking SMELL dishonesty in your proclamations of hate
Because they're just tools for some status quo power. Oh wow, you hate China, that's so edgy to say in fucking the USA. They hate people their religion tells them to hate, they hate people the US government tried to exterminate for centuries or kept as slaves. It's all conditioning.
The hatred for their idiocy and the people they serve, the corporations their politics exists to serve, the imperialism that has had actual material consequences and borderline or enter genocide. There's a lot of things to despise them for and I feel most people are too limpdicked to tap into it in this country


Racism and sexism literally do not exist outside of material reality. Anti racist/sexist theories are ironically reinforcing them by attempting to enforce an idealist reality where these concepts exist in the abstract. If you have biases then that is entirely a personal thing, but until you bring that into material reality, it’s nothing but a harmless bias, however unpalatable it might seem

 No.326202[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Please come back Rusanon Comrades! Save us from the polyp and lolbert raids.

Я вас категорически приветствую.

- A westoid who misses you.
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>Leftists need to do a better job codifying and understand Nazis and fascism in the first place because this is kind of our fault over all for letting Nazism get turned into "anyone who does violence"
What's wrong with the Marxist codification which goes: Fascism is mask-off, turbo-reactionary imperial finance capitalism ?
<the open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic and most imperialist elements of finance capital.

The liberal media was releasing articles about Ukraine having a problem with fascism, showing pictures of them wearing swastikas and other Nazi symbols, until recently. The liberals don't have a coherent definition of fascism, but they were still able to recognize these ones, especially since they basically copied the Nazi aesthetic. What got in the way was their opportunism.


There's nothing wrong with that analysis the issue is that leftists don't understand that.




But did you add anything to the discussion that was concluded over a year ago?

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When the capitalist mode of production was beginning to emerge out off late stage feudalism it did so very incrementally but unrelentingly so. The feudal ruling class noticed what was happening and they fought the rise of the bourgeoisie tooth and nail from the very beginning. The power struggle was furious and without restraint of any kind, the barbarity and cruelty was boundless. But to no avail, even in the nascent stages the capitalist system could drain energy and resources from the feudal system, and it could feed off attacks from the feudal ruling class. The more the feudal aristocracy attacked the bourgeoisie the stronger capitalism became. Also the bourgeoisie won the battle of economics before they engaged in political struggles to re-arrange the state for their needs.

I think that socialists have to conceptualized socialism as a similar process that consumes the precursor system.

- It has to be able to be bootstrapped in extremely hostile conditions, and then grow incrementally from small beginnings.
- It has to drain energy from the system it is supposed to replace.
- It has to be able to feed off the attacks from the precursor system and gain strength from it.
- It has to be able to take over economic structures even before it engages in political struggles to re-arrange the state. (obviously this is for conditions where it's not possible to take over the state, opportunities for socialists to take over the state do sometimes arise during capitalist crisis but it's not something we should hinge our strategy on)

IMHO what socialists of all stripes tend to get wrong is how to deal with the attacks that the bourgeoisie throws against the emergence of socialism. When the bourgeoisie attacks the socialists usually resist and play defense. And the best case scenario is that the attack is deflected and no damage is done. The cause for socialism can only advance in between attacks. If the bourgeoisie attacks without pause the emergence of socialism stalls. The possibility of harvesting the attack as source of energy usually isn't even considered.

- What is the smallest "socialist economic circuit" that we can start with and then have it grow incrementally ?
- How do we make it the relentless machine that consumes everything that dares to oppose it ?
- What can the capitalists do to attack and how can all those attack vectors be harvested as fuel to power the rise of socialism?
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After the soviet war-production was fully spun up, the Soviet military was anything but timid, it might best be described as a raging torrent of angry metal rolling over Nazi forces like a force of nature. If anything they probably were a little bit too assertive.

But that's not the point.

Imagine a video game about military strategy. Imagine that you could build a unit that was in effect a mobile battle-factory. Rolling over the battle field and instead of simply destroying enemy forces it would consume them for energy and resources and use it to build more of your own forces. The more attacking units your opponent sends against it, the stronger your forces would become.


>Imagine a video game about military strategy. Imagine that you could build a unit that was in effect a mobile battle-factory. Rolling over the battle field and instead of simply destroying enemy forces it would consume them for energy and resources and use it to build more of your own forces. The more attacking units your opponent sends against it, the stronger your forces would become.

thats idealism. who says its even works ?
even if so what stops the enemy from changing tactics ?
it really isn't black and white


hitler particularly lost because it was unwinnable war with his oil resources

and they couldn't secure more

not because of soviet troops and war machine 'bravery' and dedication (altho that is also important)

and alot of other factors like having only light tanks at the beginning of war but also too heavy and too even slow for the battle heavier tanks later that they couldn't even produce anymore or that were costly and unfinished and not very good either (or in small numbers)

basically again idealism doesn't work, its more complex than that (and even that isn't the reason, without america joining they probably could win in europe)


wars in general hard to predict


As long as the method of attack is using matter and energy it's possible to find a way to harvest and convert it into something useful.


Hudson gives a history of debt and he points out that it used to be standard procedure to periodically cancel the debts. He says that the current western economic practice is an aberration for not doing this.

I wonder if a debt-jubilee is a potential political issue that could galvanize the masses. How vulnerable would that be to woke-blocking ?



Remove the law that allows private banks to lend out "money" that they don't have (thus creating new money out of nothing); humans can take care of the rest.
A good start would be to abolish governments because everyone already considers ponzi schemes to be immoral and tax-funded violence is the only force that prevents us from abandonin the mandatory monopoly.

Sage because your summary of whatever you linked to is shit. Please put more effort into your posts.

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how can doug lain be so based? Pisses off grifters and anarkiddies by just speaking straight up facts. It's hilarious how he got cancelled for defending Dave chapelle against the troons.

Considering that Batko is compromised (for ~2.5 years now) we have a vacuum in the "face of leftypol" department. This guy is our best candidate.
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>Omg you haven't read every eurofag "intellectual" who has had literally zero impact on any revolution.
It's not my fault you can't define things succinctly yet fully, anon

You described the problem as capitalist realism, a supposed state of affairs in which people can't even imagine an alternative to capitalism. I point out obvious real world example of people critiquing capitalism and promoting some scifi alternative in fairly mainstream discourse. You rush to shift the goalposts while declaring, 'well ackshully critiquing capitalism and proposing alternatives is part of capitalist realism as well.'

This is why everyone thinks leftists are either deluded or dishonest midwits with just enough mental capacity to spin a fantasy. The real world may be complex, but it doesn't require convoluted explanations.


I'm going to interject for a moment.

There is a type of anti-capitalism in scifi that for example depicts capitalist mega-corporations as the enemy of the people and the main obstacle for the protagonists of the story. However those stories also carry a low-key fatalistic message for the present that says all the attempts in our time to overcome capitalism have failed, because if we succeed to overthrow the capitalists and build a better society in our time, then the future would be a nice place, something more in the direction of star trek, where nobody has to fight the evil mega corp.

Of course the back-story of star trek is that humanity doesn't overcome capitalism, capitalism just self-destructs in WW3. After that benevolent Aliens come to earth and teach humanity how-to communism.

The stories you don't see is where people overthrow capitalism and then build a better world that operates on different economic principles. You only get to see either the struggle or the already fully established better world, but never how the change happens, how the old society is transformed into the new society.

I don't know for sure why that is but it sure looks like that's the ideological taboo.


Perhaps it's too unrealistic and defies people's lived experience (and even the experience of attempts to build communism in the 20th century, in which the was no clear resolution in which a communist world was built). Generally stories with pristine protagonists are rather boring, and stories that involve personal (rather than societal) conflict are more compelling.

Literature with 2d revolutionary protagonists were quite popular during the GPRC in China. They were quite simplistic, boring, and obviously went out of favor, even in China. (That capitalism realism runs so deep it somehow tricked Chinese people with limited exposure to western media IG)


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>Perhaps it's too unrealistic and defies people's lived experience
<a story about overthrowing capitalism and building a better world is less realistic than a galaxy ruled by an evil space magician.
Bruh capitalist realism moment.

>The experience of attempting to build communism in the 20th century, in which the was no clear resolution in which a communist world was built.

The experience of building 20 century communism was a time of tremendous hopefulness and sense of possibility. I don't know why you would expect the first motion towards communism to be a victory lap. Given it's means and the opposition it faced, the result was defying the odds.

>Literature with 2d revolutionary protagonist

Story with uninteresting characters went out of fashion, wow what a shocker.

Anyway i don't see a narrative reason why there can't be stories about overcoming capitalism and building a socialist society. It's not unreasonable to suspect that the reason why those stories aren't told is because capitalists won't fund it.


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That's an ad.

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Cambodian land activists arrested for allegedly inciting farmers to hate the rich
IN A chilling “message of intimidation,” Cambodian authorities on Tuesday arrested three land rights activists on charges of plotting against the government and planning to provoke a peasant revolution. The activists have been accused of teaching farmers about class divisions between rich and poor, an official said on Tuesday. Theng Savoeun, president of the Coalition of Cambodian Farmer Community, and his colleagues Nhel Pheap and Than Hach were charged on Monday by a court in the country’s north-east with plotting against the state and incitement to commit a felony, said Am Sam Ath of the local rights group Licadho.

Scrutiny of Indian Tycoons Deals a Blow to Modi’s Privatization Drive
Apart from the sale of IDBI Bank, which is already underway, progress has slowed for other companies, a person familiar with the privatization push said, asking not to be identified because the discussions are private. India’s national elections next year could further stall sales, the person said, especially for companies facing legal or labor issues. Market watchers are now skeptical that the government will prioritize privatization during the campaign season.

German police conduct raids on climate activists as impatience mounts
Authorities raided 15 properties across Germany on Wednesday and seized assets in an investigation into the financing of protests by the Last Generation climate activist group, prosecutors said — a move that comes as impatience with the organization’s tactics mounts. Munich prosecutors said they were investigating seven people, ranging in age from 22 to 38, on suspicion of forming or supporting a criminal organization. They launched the inquiry following numePost too long. Click here to view the full text.


Starbucks Union Demands Company Bargain A National Contract
The union Workers United has been trying to negotiate first contracts for the more than 300 Starbucks locations that have formed unions since late 2021. But since those stores unionized one by one, the coffee chain has maintained that each store should negotiate its own contract. Lynne Fox, the union’s president, told HuffPost that workers want to consolidate the talks so they can start making headway on an accord. Workers have gotten nowhere with the company even though many unionized more than a year ago, she said.

Striking Clarios workers overwhelmingly reject second UAW-backed deal
In a resounding defeat for the United Auto Workers bureaucracy, striking workers at the Clarios auto battery manufacturing plant in Holland, Ohio, overwhelmingly rejected a second UAW-backed concessions contract at a union meeting Monday morning. Although local union officials have not released the official results, several workers have reported to the World Socialist Web Site that they have received reports that the deal was defeated by 75-80 percent of the membership.

Target to remove LGBTQ merchandise following threats to workers
The retail chain Target has announced that it will withdraw some LGBTQ merchandise from its stores across the United States ahead of Pride month, following violent threats against its employees. In a statement on Tuesday, the company said that it was removing certain items, although it did not specify which ones.

DEA’s failure to punish distributor blamed in opioid Post too long. Click here to view the full text.


TrueAnon: Episode 292: Liar, Liar
We breakdown the charges against soon-to-be-former congressman George “Anthony Devolder” Santos, work though why it is that so many politicians just make up insane shit, and get the accused congressman himself on the phone for some answers.

American Socialists Have Grappled With Race From the Very Beginning Review of Workers of All Colors Unite: Race and the Origins of American Socialism by Lorenzo Costaguta
(University of Illinois Press, 2023).
For a century and a half, socialist movements in the United States have been dogged by the allegation that they fail to understand or properly address the complexity of racism. While socialism has surged in popularity in recent years, centrists and liberals have seized on socialism’s “race problem” as fuel for a host of self-serving distortions: that Marxism is inherently Eurocentric; that socialism is a “white movement” that “only cares about class”; that Bernie Sanders was unelectable because he lacked nonwhite support; and that because some New Deal programs were racially discriminatory, universal programs such as Medicare for All are somehow innately exclusionary or even racist. Most of these are willful obfuscations — part of the liberal tendency to separate racial justice from economic justice and frame “anti-racism” in terms of moral reckoning and individual “work” rather than material redistribution. Others are sincere misunderstandings. Some are, however, rooted in demographic realities, made worse by deunionization, rampant segregation, and the decline of working-class institutions. Indeed, despite holding less racist attitudes than liberals, the disproportionately white, urban, and college-educated composition of present-day organizations like the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) has exposed the barriers between socialists and other sections of the working class. Socialists of all colors have largely attempted to address and overcome rather than sidestep these hurdles. They have done so through internal education and by spotlighting the rich, heterogenous tradition of black socialism, the essential role socialists played in anti-colonial struggle, and the many socialist experiments in the Global South. Socialists of color have refused to be whitewashed by the liberal commenPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


>German police conduct raids on climate activists as impatience mounts

<In recent weeks, they have brought traffic to a halt on an almost daily basis in Berlin, gluing themselves to busy intersections and highways. Over the past year, they have also targeted various art works and exhibits.

<Munich prosecutors said the people under investigation are accused of organizing and promoting a campaign to “finance further criminal offenses” by the group and collecting at least 1.4 million euros ($1.5 million). Two of them also are suspected of trying to sabotage an oil pipeline that connects the Bavarian city of Ingolstadt with the Italian port of Trieste in April 2022.
I don't know if i can trust this information, but if it's accurate that's a lot of money and pretty hardcore tactics. Which is pretty suspicious. Does anybody know whether these are organic eco-activists or is this something else using eco-concerns as a cover story?

<Leading figures with the environmentalist Green party, which is part of his governing coalition, have said the group’s actions are counterproductive.

The German green party got taken over by careerist shills and probably also CIA glowies who turned it into a neo-liberal war-monger and poverty for the masses party. Does it mean anything that they denounce those eco-activistts ? I'm asking because i was wondering whether these could be their militant cadres ?

how do you figure out if activists are genuine and driven by convictions or not ?


>how do you figure out if activists are genuine and driven by convictions or not ?

Mostly you don't - it's rarely super-obvious outside of certified clown groups like Black Hammer. But keep digging, though.

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This is less about the technical aspects and more about the civilization consequences.

You can comment on what i wrote , but feel free to ignore my takes and make your own predictions

I think AI development will have three phases:

1 <The first phase
is already completed, it started in the 80s until recently and it basically was a niche application of brute force statistical analysis of large-ish data-sets in very technical industries. Only very few people were using that.

2 <The second phase
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I saw that estimate somewhere. I should have said a single automobile model. The number includes distribution, marketing and the told time to build all copies of a single model. Seeing as how a popular model can sell into the millions it seems plausible.


oh that makes more sense, thx for clearing that up


The point I'm making is not about the essence of human thought or knowledge, but about how we mechanically approach a problem compared to how an algorithm is written to solve a problem. Becoming a good computer programmer and approaching problems with such a machine is not trivial, nor is it universal to solving problems. Humans do not think algorithmically when solving all of their problems - far from it, humans are constantly active and react to many events around them, and possess an ability to integrate all of that information quickly in models which made sense to us. It makes us very good at recognizing patterns and figuring out machines or situations, through a process that is highly alien to an algorithm which must break down any sense-data into logical propositions. The algorithm can be programmed to do this, but there are long-understood barriers to doing this with a naive approach. Algorithms for example do not handle infinite regress with naive approaches - they will enter an infinite loop if carelessly programmed. Humans avert that as part of their functioning, unless they are made to go mad - and this madness is usually the result of humans' own symbolic knowledge faculties being turned against them, rather than something that happened because their brains were just defective. Humans with severe brain damage manage to continue operating in some way without being "mad" in their own approach to the world. They will likely not have the ability or function they would like or we would expect of others, but they would in their own way proceed through life, and to them what they do is as reasonable as they could be and makes some sense. Very often, the "mad" are not disconnected from the world at all, and see the same things a normal human sees, doing many of the things a normal human would. But this gets into a long discourse about political insanity and what it would mean for sanity to exist in a genuine sense, becuse there is indeed a genuine disconnect with the world and material events which is different from how we are told to consider insanity. Clearly insane people are allowed to rise to prominent positions and their insanity is celebrated, while innocent people who did nothing wrong or little wrong are declared madmen because they hold the wrong political conceits.

The point here wasn't about the machines being "crazy", but tPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


To put it another way, the problem isn't that computers exist, but that the NSA exists, and the computer makes the NSA possible. You will never compete with the NSA's command of information individually or in any organization you would create, let alone the wider network the NSA is connected to with the state.


And of course, you don't get to wish the NSA out of existence because you don't like it. Something like the NSA, CIA, etc. will exist for reasons that make a lot of sense. The world where this is forbidden is the fantasy. Intelligence and command of information would always be carried out in some way, and this is the way it is done and can be done in the time we live in.

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