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File: 1622232000073.jpeg ( 19.03 KB , 474x314 , 4353454.jpeg )

 No.285223[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Hello /leftypol/, we noticed an under-appreciation for the theory that upholds our political ideologies: As such, we have decided to revive the reading sticky! This thread will be dedicated to the sharing, discussing, and general banter about various leftist thinkers, theories, and political outlooks.

But, other than that, we believe there are other important reads that must be addressed, especially, for beginners and those just now getting into leftism.

Don't forget to check out >>>/edu/ for more reading and discussion!

———————
Common Right Wing Talking Points Debunks
——————–

Check out the /edu/ thread at
https://leftychan.net/edu/res/5576.html

Also see the relevant leftybooru tag
https://lefty.pictures/post/list/debunk/1
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 No.496901

>>496900
You're not funny.


File: 1707073746515.jpg ( 589.82 KB , 850x954 , 15c83c5065fc60814.jpg )

 No.478400[Reply]

This thread will detail some of the changes made to the site in the past year, as well as our plans for the future.

New i2p Address
As requested by several users, and in accordance with our general ethos of encouraging online anonymity, leftychan now has an i2p address which can be found here:
http://leftychmxz3wczbd4add4atspbqevzrtwf2sjobm3waqosy2dbua.b32.i2p or http://leftychan.i2p/

Moderation Changes
* New spam filter - Thanks to the hard work of our dev and admin Zer0-, leftychan now has an effective countermeasure against the automatic bot spam that plagues alt-chans. Dubbed as the 'spam noticer', the implementation of this system has led to a dramatic fall in malicious advertisement threads being posted to the site.
* New mods & dev - In order to better cover european and asian timezones, two more mods have been voted onto the team. These are sindikat, who has previous moderation experience, and jon, who is also acting as a dev and has made many valuable contributions in this capacity.
* Removal of Zul - In line with the rule that if a mod is inactive for over 15 weeks their status as a mod is called into question, Zul was voted off the mod team.

New Roulette Board
>>>/777/
After some discussion, we decided on /k/ as the new roulette board theme, replacing /CHAD/. Archived threads from previous roulette cycles can still be viewed here >>>/roulette_archive/
Any suggestions for future roulette board rotations are welcome.
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 No.495268

>>492505
New sticky time!


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 No.498310[Reply]

Continued from
>>495162

Bottomtextbottomtext
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 No.498773

All today:

https://x.com/MintPressNews/status/2097010318585348443
MintPress News - Yemen Downs A Fourth Saudi CH-4 UAV Above Al-Jawf Province

The Yemeni Armed Forces have shot down the $4 million drones over the past 24 hours.

https://x.com/MintPressNews/status/2097000635032023044
MintPress News - Lebanese Journalists Miraculously Survived An Israeli Attack Targeting Their Position

Reporter Ali Shbib & his cameraman were reporting from Nabatieh when an Israeli airstrikes began to rain down next to them.

Earlier on, an Israeli airstrike targeted a paramedic, killing him instantly.

https://x.com/MintPressNews/status/2096974967548383538
MintPress News - Israel Detonates The Village Of Bani Hayyan In Lebanon

The systematic destruction of entire villages continues as the Lebanese side continues to implement its side of the one sided "ceasefire".

https://x.com/MintPressNews/status/2097018580760215963
MintPress News - Israeli Occupation Forces Invade Tarinja Village In Southern Syria's Quneitra

They are now firing tear gas towards children returning home from school.

Earlier they set up a checkpoint on the Ofanya-Khan Arnaba road.

The West Bank in South Syria.

https://x.com/MintPressNews/status/2097032942321365126
MintPress News - Saudi Airstrikes On Al-Jawf In Yemen Have Struck Both A Hospital & Prison

These attacks on civilian targets have come amidst shelling & sniper fire from Saudi-proxy militants that have also inflicted civilian casualties.

https://x.com/MintPressNews/status/2097101492461437349
MintPress News - BREAKING: Yemen Fires Waves Of Ballistic Missiles & Drones At Saudi Military Bases

Huge waves at targets in southern Saudi Arabia.

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 No.498789

September 5th, 2026:
🇮🇷 Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps:
-
Communiúe No. 11/
An American USV was targeted

In the name of Allah, the Powerful, the Avenger
The zealous and brave nation of islamic Iran: The heroic Navy of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps targeted a USV (Unmanned Surface Vehicle) of the terrorist American army that intended to enter the protected area of the Strait of Hormuz.

With the grace and favor of Allah, the Powerful and the Avenger, any futile movement by the enemy is under the surveillance of the brave and devoted men of the Navy of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and will be decisively attacked.

The Strait of Hormuz, this strategic waterway, is under the management of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and any movement by the child-killing enemy will be met with a decisive response.

The aggressor America must know that it has no other way than to leave the region and cease its malice.
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 No.498791

File: 1788858089910.mp4 ( 7.52 MB , 852x480 , VID_20260908_050018_690.mp4 )

September 6th, 2026:
🚨🇾🇪 The Yemeni Armed Forces announced a precise missile strike targeting a meeting of Saudi-backed mobilization leaders using a locally made ballistic missile.
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 No.498794

File: 1788862164366.png ( 2.22 MB , 1080x2111 , ClipboardImage.png )

https://x.com/MenchOsint/status/2097246272709128198
MenchOsint - Russian Il-76TD Cargo plane (RA-76834 from Novosibirsk) landed in Bushehr, Iran, second time in a week.

Possibly linked to the nuclear plant.
>>

 No.498795

File: 1788862278990-0.jpg ( 863.61 KB , 1050x2560 , September 8th 2026 Yemen a….jpg )

File: 1788862278990-1.png ( 3.59 MB , 1080x2111 , ClipboardImage.png )

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https://x.com/MenchOsint/status/2097237022029074864
MenchOsint - Yemen's Ansarallah Armed Forces announce to have targeted:

Aramco Company in Abha
Najran
The Economic City
Aramco Jizan
Khamis Mushait Air Base

with Dozens of Ballistic Missiles and Drones.

*NASA FIRMS detected fires on Khamis Mushait Air Base, Jizan & Abha.



Saudi Arabia admitted that several fires occured in the south, without mentioning Yemen.


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 No.494892[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

New big thread for American studies.

Previous thread: >>487075
370 posts and 127 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.498564

Why do they want to name everything after Amerigo Vespucci? Is it just to erase precolonial American history?
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 No.498565

>>

 No.498573

>>498564
an eo isn't an act of Congress so it's not law but a stroke of the pen that is easily reversed.
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 No.498720

File: 1788578801996.webm ( 3.91 MB , 1440x1080 , badass maga blob.webm )

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 No.498793

File: 1788861485147.jpg ( 158.81 KB , 783x898 , september 6 2026 Amazon ca….jpg )

September 6th: Amazon cargo plane veers off runway in Miami, kills 5.

US now losing air superiority over the US.


File: 1788847172933.jpg ( 184.09 KB , 376x500 , Evstafiev-ratko-mladic-199….jpg )

 No.498783[Reply]

12 March 1942 - 27 August 2026
Per Wiki:
"Mladić died at the United Nations Detention Unit in The Hague, on 27 August 2026, after suffering several strokes. He was 84."

I forgot that he wasn't arrested until 2011, and was found guilty by the International Criminal Court in 2017.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2011/06/mlad-j01.html

This occurs 20 years after Slobodan Milošević died in The Hague - with the International Court of Justice (a UN body, not to be confused with the ICC) later absolving Milošević of some of the charges leveled at him by the separate International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY).

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2007/03/icj-m16.html

To date, no one involved in the criminal 1999 NATO carpetbombing of Yugoslavia has been arrested.

https://www.wsws.org/en/topics/event/1999-NATO-Serbia

Discuss the death of Mladić, the fall of Yugoslavia and the Yugoslav Wars. I'd like to learn more about these topics!
>>

 No.498784

What did he actually do or not do?
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 No.498792

>>498784
Gave the order for the massacre at Srebrenica as far as I know. I'd be interested to know if this is contested, though.


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 No.496696[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Continued from >>492498

Updates and current status since the start of the last thread:
(largely civilian) Palestinian death toll has now passed 72,700. Excess deaths have been estimated by The Lancet to plausibly be upwards of 186,000.

Italian workers' unions launched a massive general strike in October over the shipping of weapons through Italian ports which are being used in Israel's genocide, and launched another strike in November.

In early January 2025, Israel agreed to a ceasefire in Gaza and a prisoner exchange. Israel unilaterally broke the ceasefire. In October 2025, another ceasefire and prisoner exchange was agreed upon in Gaza, and Israel has proceeded to kill over 900 Palestinians in Gaza since agreeing. Israel has also refused to allow the agreed-upon amount of aid into Gaza.

Israel attacked Iran utilizing a large number of assets embedded in Iran, killing multiple scientists and high ranking Iranian military officials, as well as targeting schools, hospitals, oil assets, and a TV station. Around one thousand Iranians were killed in Israel's strikes on civilian targets like residential buildings. Iran retaliated with a series of waves of missile and drone attacks which hit multiple Israeli military targets including IDF HQ, Mossad HQ, as well as an Israeli oil field. After an Iranian strike on Unit 8200, the number of online Zionist apologists conspicuously reduced for a while. The Israeli government, embarrassed by the damage to Tel Aviv, heavily censored footage and reporting of Iranian strikes on Israel, resulting in the Israeli police arresting journalists and citizens for filming sites of impact, while rich Israelis fled by boat due to the closure of Ben-Gurion airport. Iran began a crackdown on Israeli terror cells, finding and closing multiple Mossad-linked covert drone factories, as well as reportedly arresting groups involved in sabotage, and multiple individuals reportedly linked to German & Indian spy agencies.

Renewed US/Israeli attacks on Iran led to the destruction of multiple US bases in west Asia and the closure of the Strait of Hormuz.

The US mercenary front called the GHF has reportedly disbanded.

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 No.498652

🟢 Hamas emphasized that escalating armed settler attacks in the occupied West Bank, backed by the "israeli" occupation army, aim to enforce annexation, displacement, and ethnic cleansing, calling for serious action to stop these crimes. The movement mourned the martyrdom of 19-year-olds Omar Mohammed Na'san and Khalil Abu Aliya, who were shot by occupation forces and settlers during a confrontation in the West Bank village of Al-Mughayyir.

Hamas affirmed that these sacrifices will not be in vain and will only strengthen the people's steadfastness against settlement and displacement projects, while urging all West Bank residents to unite, confront the attacks, protect their land, and foil occupation plans.
>>

 No.498693

⚫️ Saraya Al-Quds:

A brief statement issued by Saraya Al-Quds:

At exactly 3:30 AM at dawn today, Friday, corresponding to 04/09/2026, a force from the collaborating militias advanced with the support of the zionist enemy's drone aircraft toward the Al-Qarara area ("Al-Jummayza Street") north of Khan Younis in an attempt to kidnap one of our fighters.

By the grace of Allah Almighty, our fighters in the surrounding area were able to detect the infiltrating force during the kidnapping operation and engage with it using grenades and medium weapons from point-blank range, inflicting a number of its members among the killed and wounded.

The zionist drone aviation intervened to assist the collaborating force in withdrawing from the location, and members of the collaborating force liquidated the kidnapped fighter Fadi Ali Al-Abadla by opening fire on him and leaving him at the scene of the event, dragging along their wounded and killed personnel.

We mourn our martyr fighter Fadi Ali Saeed Al-Abadla, one of the fighters of Saraya Al-Quds in the Al-Qarara Battalion of the Khan Younis Brigade.

And those who do wrong will soon know to what overturn they will be overturned.

Saraya Al-Quds - Military Wing of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Movement
Friday, 22 Rabi' al-Awwal 1448 AH, corresponding to September 4, 2026
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 No.498698

🚨🛡️ The Rade' Resistance Security Force stated that the remarks made by Mahmoud Al-Habbash, the Palestinian Authority's Religious Affairs Advisor, regarding collaborator gangs constitute a public confession of support for occupation-funded groups rejected by the people of Gaza.

Recorded testimonies confirm direct communication between Al-Habbash and senior collaborators, including the facilitation of medical treatment at hospitals in Ramallah and property purchases.

The statement asserts that the involvement of Al-Habbash and figures of the PA security forces in communicating with these collaborating gangs constitutes a national crime, requiring honorable members of Fatah to issue an explicit position against this.
>>

 No.498760

🟢 Hamas Spokesperson, Hazem Qassem:
-
Today's killing of the child Wafaa Aqila by the "israeli" occupation's warplanes as she was leaving her first day of classes for the new school year is a multifaceted crime that underscores the continuation of the war of extermination against our people in Gaza, which targets children and women.

The silence of the Peace Council and its director, Mladenov, can only be understood as complicity in these crimes and an inability to compel the occupation to abide by any of the agreements that have been reached.

We call upon the Arab and Islamic countries participating in the Peace Council to take a clear and practical stance against these crimes, and to expose the "israeli" position that manipulates the Peace Council and its resolutions.
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 No.498790

File: 1788857020534.mp4 ( 753.33 KB , 480x852 , VID_20260908_044249_063.mp4 )

September 5th, 2026:
An IOF soldier with PTSD opened fire on "israeli" police in "Netanya" in northern occupied Palestine.


File: 1776638431093.mp4 ( 2.9 MB , 576x1024 , Download(22).mp4 )

 No.495770[Reply]

Israel has been bombing Lebanon effectively extending it's ethnic cleansing into the country.

It's shitty to say this but did they not see this coming? They've been right there watching gaza get flattened, why didn't they go into debt and beg Iran, China and Russia for hardware to defend themselves? Why wasn't there a rifle every rooftop and an rpg on every balcony?

I'm actually serious, I don't believe such a small country couldn't fortify their defenses to the point where this could have been avoided.

I don't claim to understand the conflict between the Lebanese Armed Forces and Hezbollah, but if Communists in China could work with the Kuomintang to kick out Japanese fascists, they could have done more.
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 No.498412

File: 1787154584996.png ( 716.75 KB , 900x716 , ClipboardImage.png )

https://x.com/MintPressNews/status/2090096187932070141
BREAKING: Israeli Tanks Open Fire On Al-Mansouri In Lebanon

Israeli occupation forces are currently amassing in the outskirts of the village & are burning civilian homes.

It is expected that they could soon attempt an advance to capture the village.
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 No.498417

https://x.com/MintPressNews/status/2090219427430035553
BREAKING: Israel Has Launched A New Campaign Of Massive Airstrikes On South Lebanon

The attacks are ongoing.
>>

 No.498501

https://x.com/MintPressNews/status/2093027321611440375
MintPress News - BREAKING: Israel Has Declared That Its Agreement With Lebanon Had Failed

A large number Israeli fighter jets have just entered Lebanese airspace.

The occupying army claim that the Lebanese Armed Forces have failed to implement their “experimental zones” aimed at disarming Hezbollah.

It is anticipated that the collapse of the agreement, which Israel has violated every day since its signing, will lead to a new wave of attacks on civilian targets.
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 No.498697

🚨 "israeli" warplanes and artillery intensified strikes on southern Lebanon, targeting Douha Kafr Rumman, Al-Ramisiyah, Nabatiyeh al-Fawqa, and Wadi Zibqin, while IOF units continued demolitions in Zoutar El-Sharqiyeh and Al-Mansouri.
>>

 No.498787

September 5th, 2026:
🟡🟢 Hezbollah:
-
A statement issued by Hezbollah regarding the ongoing "israeli" aggression against Lebanon:

The "israeli" enemy continues to escalate its aggression and criminality against Lebanon, through killing, bombardment, systematic destruction and bombing of homes and villages, erasing their landmarks, and demolishing all the foundations of life within them without restraint and under flimsy pretexts. Yesterday, its terrorist aggression led to the martyrdom of four martyrs and the wounding of dozens, amidst complete international silence, blatant american complicity, the Lebanese authorities' complete absence from assuming their responsibilities, and their shameful insistence on persisting in their mistaken choices, capitulatory approach, and a framework trampled upon daily by the enemy-a framework that has brought Lebanon nothing but disgrace and ignominy, and has led to nothing except entrenching the occupation and the enemy's continued aggression and criminality against the Lebanese.

This condemned and ongoing aggression, carried out with full american partnership, cover, and planning, has no justification other than pressuring and blackmailing the Lebanese authorities to push them to implement agendas whose objectives have become known, even if the price is plunging Lebanon into the swamp of internal strife. The authorities' continued pursuit of this futile, illegal, and unconstitutional path provides the enemy with cover to continue its aggression and grants it more time to achieve its goals and impose its conditions and dictations on Lebanon.

The authorities' claims that their futile direct negotiations and the ominous framework agreement with the enemy achieve accomplishments are shattered and dispelled by the ongoing occupation, aggression, shedding of Lebanese blood, destruction, and bombing. The release of some Lebanese prisoners, despite its importance, cannot be a cover to overlook the continuation of aggression, occupation, and killing, nor is it a justification for persisting in a path that has proven its failure and inability to protect Lebanon and its people, whereas the authorities had previously repeatedly affirmed that they would not enter any negotiation path before the enemy stops its aggression.

The authorities are called upon to recalculate, stop the stubbornness, and put aside obstinacy and bickering for the sake of the interest of Lebanon and its people, and to returnPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


 No.493108[Reply]

We know why they don't label mainstream religious beliefs as delusions and why they come up with their numbers-based cope about what constitutes a delusion: because they'd run themselves out of business if they insulted so many people. Ergo, they prioritize money, killing their credibility with everything else. How is one supposed to know whether or not they're drawing out treatment to get more money?

Scientific evidence show that kids a few months younger in a classroom have more adhd "diagnosis". Kids who are in classrooms that don't have 32 pupils but 24nare reduced risk of "adhd". it's a literal scam.

It is Astrology but with institutional funding. Psychology is bullshit. It's just to get easy money.
13 posts omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.498426

… non linear experiences & panic attacks & being "labelled" … gang stalking is real … the west's "freedom of religion" is just an excuse for total DC:LX:VI mind war without boundaries of 12/144 regulating this summer to umer 36/37 sun run … maybe next time?
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 No.498427

>>497396
>if you want to connect with galactic hive mind you need to go straight edge cold turkey for a month or so …
I don't know what this has to do with the topic, but weirdly I agree.

>>498426
>>>/posad/
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 No.498781

going cold trukey to enter galactic hive mind is the fix to psychiatric accusations!

"voices in the head" … more like "why not voice in the head" … paradox & riddle & gobble & burn yer way through the voices to get to the final girl or end boss …

empathy today, xenopathy tommorow?!

SMASH THE PSYCHS!

ENTER HIVE-MIND!
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 No.498782

turkey - trukey [sic]

:)
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 No.498785

antipsychiatry has almost always had a mainstream position in the USA since about the 1960s.  

hollywood was pretty much universally negative about psychiatry

the only people promoting it are medical workers, narcissists, and former tumblr users

even the US government is mildly antipsychiatry now


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 No.498759[Reply]

Why do the 'Elite' eat children? Why is everyone acting like nothing's happening?
How are you preparing?
3 posts omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.498772

>>498765
I wasn't gonna say it, but I'm hesitant to cite the alleged cannibalism parts, too. IIRC there's one explicit, but very difficult-to-believe (because the events seem beyond the scope of most of the other stuff described) account of cannibalism in the files, and the other stuff which is cited as evidence of cannibalism IIRC is mostly stuff that reads like it could just be pedo code talk or stuff which was interpreted as suggesting cannibalism without any explanation as to why it was interpreted that way.

I actually don't rule it out at all, and I think that there are reasons to believe they could very well be literally eating people and that accounts of them doing that could actually be legitimate, but we know objectively that they traffic and rape and torture women and children systematically, and they also commit massive amounts of murder as well, and there's lots of reason to believe that they've engaged in the killing of witnesses and co-conspirators to their confirmed crimes of trafficking, rape, and mass murder (war crimes). At the very least, we have absolute proof that they rape kids and and torture people and murder people and traffic human beings, but we've got very little definitive evidence that they eat people, and that seems like it would require more evidence rather than less.

Polite sage.
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 No.498776

File: 1788840017499.jpg ( 13.5 KB , 400x396 , hotpockets.jpg )

>>498772
Doesn't help that the one email that actually references this also talks about black men fucking white women on yachts until all their vaginas bleed.  You know, like some /pol/tard fanfiction.
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 No.498777

>>498776
That's possible to do, but yeah it does add a layer of additional weirdness. That and the thing about a type of ritual sacrifice where the feet are cut with a scimitar, but leave no scarring.
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 No.498778

>Prion diseases are usually rapidly progressive and always fatal
https://www.medicaldaily.com/cannibalism-and-you-what-eating-other-people-does-your-body-401065
>>

 No.498779

yes gamble with the kuru of prion … to eat a baby is to trigger the ultimate religious experience … the morphic resonance of base animal instinct & challenge with social miscalculations (animal magnetism) … the paranoia will seep from quantum realms & ecstasy from retro-eschaton synchronicities & insights from absurdist hubris vs innuendo in the paradoxical decrees from logosgraphygraphy [sic] vs moral headaches at strange novelties KNOWING when something is a calling & non a triviality (just) … in short to eat a baby will generate foundational genetic resonance with reptiles & amphibians that are the base to most intelligent tool-using evolutions & therefore one will acquire SUPERGNOSIS IN THE CRYPTOCOSMIC INTERZONES OF ETERNITY …


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 No.498764[Reply]

In the past the usual position was to accept that the Malvinas claim by the England was just a ad hoc justification and the only reason they want the Malvinas in the first place is to have the natural resoruces of the Argentinian sea and to claim south pole. But i see a lot of retards repeating the england propaganda verbatium. Why? I dont understand
>But muh the england left a port in 1776.
who cares?
>But muh 3000 england people live there.
Do you dont understand how imperialism works? The worst part is that nobody lives there because they want to. Most of them are soldiers that are paid to stay there. Where do you think the economy in a giant ass island came from? anyways it is absurd to think one could take a random island, left some people and then it is yours for all eternity. Even then i dont think 3000 people are enough to claim those island plus the 2000 km of sea around it.
>But Argentina wants to ethnically cleanse the falkland island
i have seen some retarded people that repeat the same retarded shit some say about palestine. If Argentina had the island probably the way of life of the kelpelrs wouldnt change. If they want to stay which i doubt since England probaly will stop paying them to stay there.
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 No.498766

Las Malvinas son Argentinas!
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 No.498768

>>498764
Many Argentinians act like assholes in basically any public space where they can identify themselves as Argentinian. The world cup was a particularly public example from both fans of the Argentinian team as well as the Argentinian players themselves.

Argentinian nationalists have been like this at least since the first Falklands war. They literally chased and mobbed a BBC film crew because one of them thought (schizophrenia) that a license plate referenced the Falklands war.

Argentinians have a reputation for acting like repugnant, over-zealous, racists nationalists. That probably isn't the reason you would like, but that is the reason.
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 No.498769

Total boludo death, the Falkland are rightfull british clay
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 No.498774

I don't know if that many leftists really accept England's claim, I think some are just dummies who have to react reflexively to absolutely everything and see Milei and think Argentinians are just twats. Also, the attempt by Argentina to take the Falklands/Malvinas in the '80s was done by a US-backed right-wing puppet tyrant, which lends a bit of irony to it. Even so, there's no reason that the British need to control islands 300 miles off the coast of Argentina. It's understandable that Argentina would contest British control of islands which are far closer to Argentina than they are to Britain. I think the only good argument, offhand, for British control of those islands is the small (non-military) British population, who have been there for a very long time - under the right circumstances, they could just be integrated into Argentinean society as a small English-speaking group who live on those islands, and it shouldn't have to be a problem. Of course, the British probably wouldn't give it up without a war, which would complicate that.

As an aside, I was checking Wikipedia to be sure that I correctly remembered how long the British had controlled those islands, and there's some really embarrassing stuff in this article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute
Particularly that second paragraph: "While Argentina claims a right to colonise the territory for economic gain, Britain has supported the right of self-determination of Falkland islanders. Today, Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly prefer to remain British. Following the British victory in the Falklands War, they were granted full British citizenship under the British Nationality (Falkland Islands) Act 1983."
Gee, I wonder what side the person who wrote these (unsourced) sentences is on!
Actually, the source for the sentence after those two is just the "Falklands Government" website, so perhaps those sentences are citing them as well (I haven't checked). Anyway, it's very badly written and someone could come away getting the wrong impression from that.
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 No.498775

>>498774
>good argument
"Good" here being relative, to clarify.


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